The OFFICIAL Season 10 Midseason Overwatch 2 Hero Tier List
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
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I don't know if Flats is knowledgeable about military aviation, but the "Mercy isn't even an F-22 anymore, just an F-4" line is astoundingly accurate.
Bold to assume Mercy is even capable of being as valuable as an F-4, she's a paper airplane at this point.
She's more like a Spitfire with a broken propeller
@@OrionTheGod i am still confuse why her movement is nerf. start at ow2 so didnt know a lot about the past and i heard that she got better movement to match ow2 pace THEN THEY NERF IT. bruh mercy main here but sometime i feel kiri is more agile than mercy.... i just wanted to be a guardian angel, now im a pedestrian bagel
@@user-eo4it2rn1fbecause top 500 hitscan mains couldnt hit a mercy with her movement
@@user-eo4it2rn1fpedestrian bagel is a new one and one id like to steal
Whats crazy is that supports still dont have an indicator for when allies are affected by the damage passive
At this point I can tell based on how quickly the healing sound effect changes pitch.
u can tell by the sound ngl
@@electrollama2127 That doesn't help with characters like Lucio
@@imminent_gans and brig
Imo, it doesn't matter. If the passive was like Ana nade there would be a purpose for a visual indicator. Being aware of less healing isn't really important, I mean what are your options in that scenario? Heal your teammate at a reduced rate and possibly keep them alive or don't heal them and they just die. As a support it's not really logical to withhold heals from a teammate in need just because they got shot by a dps.
Unless you're trying to triage and set priorities for healing in the moment its probably best to heal like normal passive or no passive.
Blizzard not making Kiriko S tier every season challenge (Impossible)
Bro acting like sojourn isn't the same way
@@cheeseohthey never said they wern't
Kiriko has a below average winrate but people still feel like she is the best support. Even had the lowest winrate in diamond according to overbuff last month a few days ago, but now I think she got the second last spot there.
@@amandopurperhart1351 Kiriko is below average because people pick her in every game and switch to her when they're losing. Her power is not always enough to turn the game around, but she's definitely the best choice to try that. It's important to interpret the data, not just look at the numbers.
@@bohdanpyzh2712 people will also switch off kiriko because they are losing. There are no statistics for this swapping so you dont know whether this will increase our decrease the kiriko win rate...
Cass went from quite possibly the worst character to S tier over the course of Ow2, has been a wild ride for us Cass mains.
Every game has a cass now
im sorry what? when was Cass "possibly the worst character"
I got cooked in his last tier list video for saying "swap tracer from S and Cass from A and its good" 😂
Hate Cass. People can’t think by himself. Only picking heroes that RUclipsr say they are good. So braindead. It’s sad.
Everyyyyy fckng Match cass
@@baer5137 horrible ult, fills a weird niche in terms of range.
someone fact check me on this but the patch where he lost his one shot+nade combo and hindered wasn't a thing yet was prob the worst cass has been. in general he's not a strong character, the armor change was a massive buff for him
It's wild that tanks are all so strong, but still no fun to play
It's almost like being the enemies sole focus all the time feels bad.
@@kielmessersmith1956 the only thing keeping me playing tank is BECAUSE i face the entire enemy team at once! I love the class fantasy, but you either overbuff attempting to achieve it or you fail to achieve it by letting the tanks be weak. im starting to think 2 tanks really is the only option
I don’t play tank because it’s just a matter of time before it becomes Zaryawatch whenever I start on DVA.
Just like how Orisa was
Busted but no fun
@@skarletismercy3275 The only hope I have for this game getting better is comments like yours. Only a matter of time before the larger community finally relents and acknowledges that the only real option is going back to 6v6.
There actually technically is a way to resolve this issue in 5v5, but the moment it happens is going to be the true downfall of OW for even OW2 players. You would need to make every single tank a generalist that plays/provides the exact type of value to the team. This would require fundamental changes to pretty much every tank in the game. Changes like letting Reinhardt shoot a gun while holding his shield, slowing down Doomfist and Ball so they prioritize tanking for the frontline, removing Hog's hook, and a ton of other things I'm not even considering. Every tank would need to play like Sigma or Ramattra basically.
Sad thing is they're already slowly doing this (look at current Hog, Orisa, Mauga and even the recent Ball rework for evidence).
Ball (A) 0:43
Doomfist (A) 1:56
DVa (A) 4:30
Roadhog (S) 5:43
Junker Queen (B) 8:06
Mauga (A) 8:48
Orisa (B) 9:30
Ramattra (A) 10:52
Reinhardt (B) 11:38
Sigma (A) 13:30
Winston (A) 17:10
Zarya (C) 18:00
Ashe (B) 20:10
Bastion (C) 20:40
Cassidy (S) 21:20
Echo (S) 23:15
Genji (B) 24:30
Hanzo (C) 24:58
Junkrat (B) 27:50
Mei (B) 28:47
Pharah (A) 29:40
Reaper (D) 30:20
Sojourn (S) 31:55
Soldier: 76 (B) 32:17
Sombra (B) 34:35
Symmetra (C) 35:25
Torbjorn (B) 37:19
Tracer (A) 38:42
Venture (B) 40:00
Widowmaker (B) 40:38
Ana (A) 41:33
Baptiste (S) 42:05
Kiriko (S) 42:25
Brigitte (A) 46:28
Illari (B) 47:45
Lucio (S) 48:35
Moira (B) 49:40
Zenyatta (B) 50:12
Lifeweaver (D) 50:54
Mercy (D) 54:20
Tysm
Goat
You know what I wouldn’t hate? Cass’ grenade being a normal goddamn grenade. Not a flashbang, not whatever a “hinder” grenade is, and not a magnetic grenade. Just a regular grenade that you throw in an arc and does damage in the area in rolls into--and no knockback or DOT like most other explosives in the game. Longer cooldown to compensate for it just being an instant high damage ability with an AOE. Maybe it could also have a mechanic where you could hold the ability button to “cook” it like in a lot of FPS games to make it go boom sooner than normal after throwing it.
Honestly why not. Cassidy in general feels like one of those characters with basic abilities that rely on raw mechanics more than the others, similar with soldier 76, so why not.
I’d vote for this. A classic style halo frag grenade that can be rolled on the ground or bounced around a single corner would be rad.
I agree. It feels weird that the jaded cowboy that relies on a good old pistol also uses a highly technological grenade to do magic.
Cass grenade would be great if it worked like bastion nade without the range bastion has
hear me out ultrakill coin
Editor is based as hell for putting in that Terraria Soundtrack
For Kiri : make a sight check : if their is LoS, she can TP her normal amount, but if no LoS, her TP distance is reduced.
Kinda smart ngl
As a kiri enjoyed, I would not be mad at this
Then the "TP" doesn't make sens.
I believe the character is just wrong designed. It's prelly fun to play but frustrating against
Its funny to see mercy dead last then the dev AMA literally yesterday was saying Mercy was a top 5 performer.
Performer in making money, perhaps
She's really difficult to get value out of. The problem is, the only people that play mercy really, are mercy specialist, so a lot like Genji, its difficult to tell if the character is actually strong or not, cause so many people play her for reasons OUTSIDE of her being good or not (Character Identity & Unique Gameplay loop).
TL;DR, Mercy players will play her if she's good or bad and find a way to make it work cause we're degens who love our angel girl
top 5 best performing *BELOW GRANDMASTERS* … they also said release brig wasnt op, reinhardt was too strong, sojourn was too weak, hog was too weak, orisa was too weak, ball was too weak, venture was too strong, kiri was too weak, bap was too weak, etc etc. it’s safe to say at this point that the “statistics” for how a hero is doing are not entirely accurate 100% of the time and should be taken with a grain of salt. the statistics also don’t paint the full picture
I mean if you look at overbuff she's mid af in lower ranks but gets over 50% win rate in master and gm so her win rate is actually up in gm
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 thats most likely due to the fact that in gm youre only gonna play her if youre either cracked with her or you have some insanely good hitscan
That whole thing about Zarya
In Fighting game community. We sometimes make a tier category of irrelevant. Not bad characters, but in any serious competition, there is just no reason to use those characters, usually due to them being outclassed.
That's basically Zarya right now
always been
i absolutely love when streamers say about how on tank you will always get blamed by your team if you lose despite there being nothing else you could have done bc people always ignore me when i say that. like yeah i know that sometimes it is entirely my fault, but almost every comp game that i have lost i get flamed, despite having the same or better stats as my team, and actually playing well.
It's literally why nobody but the masochists want to play tank. You can do really well and it's still an uphill battle because so much is resting entirely on that singular role's shoulders.
I agree with you mainly, tanks do get blamed way too much, but be careful when you’re talking about having “the same or better” stats as your dps. In my experience you almost always should have better stats than you dps just by the nature of the role (most of the time). Don’t let better stats convince you you’re playing really well.
Except deaths. Deaths are generally a good measure of how you’re doing.
@@aidenlarson9911 Why would expect the nature of the tank role to produce higher stats, when their role is to take damage, and the DPS role is the deliver damage, and get most of the kills?
Well then, hog and Sigma got some nerfs. I guess a little bit of bad timing. But I bet the placements are still relatively the same.
Still relatively just as wrong
Yeah sigs still great he ain't moving anywhere his ult just isn't as goofy
Hog probably dropped a bit cuz I'm pretty sure he's far more killable now since his resource takes longer to return and he gets less heal DR is still there so it lets him live but his survivability definitely took a hit and he has a better window to get killed
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 I agree
@@sebastianrodriguez8992
I actually thought devs were going after his DR to make him less op, but seeing the nerfs I dare to say he is now on pair with Sig, which may change some spots in the tank tier list.
@@Das_Ungeheuer Nah he had 50% because without it the 20% DPS reduction ate him alive so that's realistically the only way he lives to tank, so making it have a longer cool down and less total healing while keeping the powerful reduction is honestly a step in a better direction so he can still survive big hits of burst damage while not eating the entire lobby of damage anymore due to its hefty cooldown
It's crazy how eskay said the solution in her question.
Just gotta rework or send all the bs tank buster heros to the farm, and if you rework them than be willing to gut their identities because trying to keep a problimatic heros identity is fundamentally flawed as it's often the identity that is the issue like sombra being a hacker that disables your abilities, they wanna keep that but also give a new identity and it's like nah, you cant do that, now shes just power crept asf with a bloated kit and an identity crisis 😂
So simply target all the instances of tank busters in the other roles or go back to 6v6. Those are their options and there is no other option and for some reason we act as if both these options are ludicrous when they really arent, and Idk why they thought they could remove an entire tank but not change the tanks or the tanks issues at all, it's crazy to me that zarya just got a second bubble and bastion just got to move around in exchange for his self heal, like just go all in or give up and go back to 6v6, because this being scared and sitting in the middle is just pissing everyone off.
Sombra hack could go to Mirrorwatch version, buffing allies. Would arguably make it more fun for everyone involved. Also, Mirrorwatch Bastion was pretty interesting since he didn't have nearly as much tank busting ability but had info utility for the team. I think there could be something useful to take away from those modes. And they mentioned in an AMA they're looking at ways to give Reaper some non-tank-busting potential, which could open an opportunity to nerf his efficiency against tanks specifically (which OW1 armor already did to an extent). So that's 3 arguably the most oppressive anti-tank DPS looked at, and others could also be adjusted in similar manner.
As for supports, again, looking at Mirrorwatch Ana's anti-nade with partial healing reduction but reduced cooldown makes a lot of sense. And they could apply it to other busted support abilities like suzu (for example, taking away the invulnerability or reducing healing massively, but reducing cooldown) to make them more interactive for both sides.
I think there's still unexplored design space where they could make tanks not be tissue paper when countered, and raid bosses when not countered.
@@bohdanpyzh2712 yea I hope they make some of these changes but I dont see them doing the sombra one, it doesnt fit with her kit very well, so you would need to make her a support.
I propose they just make her hack no longer remove abilities and rather it amps all her abilities in some way like dmg boost her primary, and make her virus spread like the older thing they tested, and hell maybe even let her hack as she throws her translocator for some cool effect there, and than give hack no cool down so you can also use it as recon ability to show players to your team through walls. All of this would go with her identity, and actually make sense since if you wanna get technical, how can something physcially impossible be part of her lore and identity, like how does she hack soldiers legs? Or hogs hook? These things dont make sense since hogs hook isnt technology as far as I know 😂
FOR REAL DUDE WHY ARE THEY JUST IGNORING THE SOLUTION IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES LMFAO like hello??? Why are we trying so hard when we're literally running out of IDEAS TO EVEN TRY
The Sombra changes in Mirrorwatch were trash. She was trash, useless, and had zero value. Just because you hate playing against hack, that does not mean it needs to go.
The thing about Bastion is that he’s only really any good against Zarya, bad Reins, and maybe Ball. Every other tank kind of just laughs at Bastion.
Me personally I main Zar n I find bastions free charge or I just explode
hog too though definitely not if they have any concept of hard cover and DEFINITELY not as of the latest balance pass. ffs
this is half true. u can outmanoeuvre a bastion fs but there are instances where his threat and presence can be quite crucial, but it would be with the help of other factors from his team
A GOOD bastion absolutely stomps mauga and Winston
Bastion always fully charges me whenever I’m Zarya.
I find it interesting that the game is growing despite all the creators sentiment. I wish someone would do an analysis on the disconnect but that would require stats the OW team can only view.
Cause it’s popular to hate OW. Even when OW came out on steam and people called it “dead” and Paladins better it had triple Paladins numbers. OW is disappointing, but it still the best hero shooter out there. Plus it’s fun to just play casually and easy to hop in to.
The disappointment of watching your opponent switch from a mirror-match to your hardest counter is palpable.
Most of these streamers thought this update would make tanks op. That has not been the case. I wish everyone would stopped pretending they know how to "fix" the game.
This update allows tanks to be more playable. Better than Orisa mirrors to not die 🤷
No one's gonna know how to fix an issue like that but everyone thinks they might have a way that could fix it
That's how having an opinion on balance works
Wait, your telling me that not addressing the primary problem facing tanks (counterswapping, which can't be addressed as long as theres only 1 tank), but instead reworking their armor which in turn apparently made armor reliant tanks worse from what Im hearing?
Granted the headshot change was actually good, and the Knock back I mean that's a barely anything change considering the distance you get knocked back isn't the problem, its how bad it feels to just be displaced at all (plus other CC like sombra hack being bigger problems). It's almost like they have 0 clue how to balance the tank role entirely, but its not like we havent had a whole 10 seasons of evidence to show that.
Just makes tanks unkillable. Boring af game now. What an embarrassment!
@@darcidious99 counterswapping in and of itself is not an issue. It’s just that tank matchups are very one sided, which can’t really be solved as an issue with only 1 tank. However, the changes that they have made this patch have been beneficial to feeling like you can play the game as a tank. The armor change specifically has made the “tank buster heroes” less effective, which makes the game more playable for tanks.
At this point it's clear that the devs don't know what to do with the Tank role. It's either a meaningless role that feels shit to play, or a busted role that feels shit to play. I hate to be that guy, but at this point what's left to change but the format? In a scenario where every role has two players except for the single Tank, sabotaging that one-player role by hard counterswapping their pick is a legitimate strategy. You can't even blame people for counterswapping because it makes sense, it's the optimal play to win the game. Having only one Tank while having two DPS and Supports makes that Tank the natural focal point, which is only enforced even harder by the fact that Tanks are the biggest characters that often hold the frontline. As such, the role catches 90% of the bullshit in the game, gets the most counterswapping and most of all, gets the most toxicity thrown onto it by their team and the one player has to deal with it all by themselves. Tanking in 5v5 will NEVER be fun, because the pressure is simply to great. You have to do too much, suffer too much, sustain too much. Until the role breaks, as it has. But Blizzard is too petty to ever go back. They'd rather let the game die than to admit even the possibility of being wrong. If they truly cared for the game, they would take the 6v6 adjustments Workshop code and put it in as an experimental playlist. If they were so confident that their format is better, then this would prove that. But they aren't. Because they care about their ego more than they do about the game.
fantastic argument. has 5v5 been enjoyable if the same problems continue to exist, or at times, replaced with a different problem? the answer lies with the tank role, and your argument was strong. although each role will have its problems-no avoiding that due to factors in the game, and it’s players-tank is the only role with 1 hero. i won’t repeat what you said above, but I agree wholeheartedly. have a good day to you, and to everyone else who may be reading this.
The issue with switching back to 6v6 is the queue times. That was a major reason for the switch to 5v5 in the first place. Tank queues were roughly the same time as they are now, but dps queues could be up to 20 minutes at times. So blizzard switched to 5v5, because a lack of tank players left the other two roles waiting for too long(mainly dps) and it was killing the game.
@@bobbymaza3086 I feel like queue times, though a genuine issue, is partly an excuse to never go back to 6v6. Thing is, they'll probably keep using that excuse because the tank player base has arguably shrunk due to 5v5 making the role feel so much worse. Double shield, imo, was fixable. The devs just abandoned the game for nothing without trying to even fix it.
I purpose the idea of 7v7, maybe Blizzard will take it into consideration because it at least wouldn’t show how pointless Overwatch 2 became when they scrapped the whole PvE thing, so they’re pathetic ego wouldn’t be hurt by the fact that Overwatch 2 was a complete failure for what it promised/meant to deliver, and they could start experimenting on 7v7 and all the possible balance nightmares that could come with it and what version of 7v7 would have the best balance potential and not a nightmare, and a good idea I thought of for 7v7 version is to bring 2 Tanks back (obviously) but unlike Old Overwatch (or Overwatch 1 if you will) the catch would be that the support role would actually have the 1+ player increase, then, from there, they could give the appropriate nerfs and or buffs to characters like Bap, Kiriko, Mercy after they rework some or all of them, namely Bap and Kiriko to have the highest priority for a significant or total rework of the character such as, removing immortality, tweaking Suzu and leaving characters like Lucio (untouched.. for a while) to have the chance to attack the enemy team freely without the worry to heal or even speed boost his team and instead attacking Widow to keep her in check but also nerf characters like Moira and Illari (after she (Illari) shines as a flank support, I want to see her shine, now wouldn’t that be something :) so they wouldn’t become busted, because of how one of them don’t need that good aim to kill people and how the other can sustain herself with her healing.. pylon that she’d use exclusively on her for it to focus it’s healing on her which would make her probably a worthy opponent for Soldier’s Biotic Field Healing except Torbjörn would most likely be one of the best counters to her as well as Sombra so you see, a third healer wouldn’t be as much of an issue when they got a hard-counters DPS or a moderate one as long as there are two tanks, there is no issue, let the Tanks fight each other for a bit or the Tank deals with the flanking support real quick and then go back to help the tank teammate soaking up significant damaged that wouldn’t be significant when it’s split between them even when one of them is focused-on the tank can just either pull them with their hook 🪝 or cover them with their shield 🛡️ and that’s how they could make Overwatch great again without going back to 6v6.. or at least close to how great 6v6 Overwatch was.
@@bobbymaza3086 Yeah and why were Tank queue times so long? Because no one wanted to play Tank. So answer the question: Why does no one want to play Tank?
You get the answer to that, you get the issue with the entire game's existence
Response to Flats' idea regarding Mercy res at the end: What if Mercy's res, only during Valkyrie, was instant? Like, that'd give Valkyrie a much more playmaking characteristic other than just, "haha girlboss glock mercy go brr" and "beam go more than one target". You hear the Mercy pop Valkyrie, you instantly fear they might go for the insta-res. That would make Valkyrie so much more than just the mostly-cosmetic ult that it is now, imo
That still wouldn't change her impact outside of valk anyway, and most mid battle resurrections happen when in valk anyway
@@abrawolf True, but I think it's a way of making Valkyrie in particular have some sort of greater, more consistent niche. It's just one buff idea out of many for Mercy.
True I'd say give her res on only valk and make it instant, and give her a different ability during her neutral game and just have it switch during ult
@@jasontai7730 valk res is already kinda free, only a few heroes like sombra can stop it during valk
That's a good idea
Right now it's probably the worst support ultimate and Mercy sucks in general. If she could pop valk and rez tank it wouldn't be that bad. I'll let you cook with this idea
The only other way I can see her getting buffed is Blue Beam because that's what she's all about and rn it doesn't help break any major damage breakpoints. The only thing I can really think of is allowing Hanzo to 1-shot again, but that's about all there is. Buffing the damage boost percentage to 25 or even 30% would definitely make her easier to get value out of
As a hog main I speak for all of us when i say, yes we are unethical.
Maybe the nerfs help to be a little less unethical
Genuinely, I think Hog needs to be buffed. No I will not eleborate
@@IPS-bk2wrgood. You said a lot about your knowledge on the game in 1 sentence🤪
@@ashestoashesTTV Oh no, I just want it to be easier for us hog mains
Literally sobbing as a mercy main I worked so hard for her vengeance skin and now she's unplayable even in qp I was healing a teammate pressured by ONE enemy and they fell so easily 😭😭😭😭
Jq talking to orisa in b teir: WELCOME TO THE RICE FEILDS MF
EY BOSS???? HELLO???
@@masift1494 yes
to be honest, i think they should try giving unique passives to each tank and get rid of the universal tank passive. i’m not saying every tank should have a different passive, but i think there should be MORE tank passives rather than what we have now (i.e zarya has her own passive but mauga and rein have the same passive, not saying this should actually happen just giving an example) im not going to theorycraft any passives, but imo it might work VERY well.
Honestly I've seen this suggested before and I like this idea. Apparently the tank passive we have now of reducing knockback used to be reinhardt only. Each tank having a different passive like maybe Winston having a speed boost on kill or something could be interesting.
I honestly don't know how to feel about LW right now. I think he's actually pretty ok, especially when you use his cooldowns and utility well, but theres something about him that just feels weak. I have 2 suggestions but idk if theyd actually work. First thing they can do is decrease the charge time to get to full charge just slightly, enough to make getting to full charge actually viable. Or, rework the healing slightly so full charge is like 65hp instant with 20-30 healing over time. So the total number is basically the same but with a little bit of healing over time it might give the weaver a window to do something other than heal. Thorns do good damage but lw falls behind on healing so fast that it can be reqlly hard to find a timing to use them, maybe something like this would help with that?
I came back to OW2 after a 5 months break to find Reaper a shell of a character. He is so insanely terrible.
The trick with life weaver grip is to see how much damage they’re taking.
as a roadhog and zen player, every time ive seen people complain about hog not being strong enough, ive had to tell them and show them how strong hog actually is and that orisa has been holding him back
Anyone who is in the chat complaining that tanks are overpowered is straight up wrong. This is coming from a DPS main. I think everyone got spoiled being able to blow up a tank in 3 seconds
As long as support is damage focused, tank will be a terrible, boring role to play.
And if not, then support will be a terrible, boring role to play
@@bohdanpyzh2712 flush the whole game
Well support shouldn't have such great damage output, like baptiste and kiriko shouldn't do so much damage @bohdanpyzh2712
@@Ajaylix_history_shortsWell, at that point now supports can’t defend themselves in a 1v1 and have to rely on their team to protect them. Which doesn’t happen until high masters and beyond. So, you’ll just have a bunch of QP players complaining that support feels terrible to play. And QP players are the majority of the player base. As a developer, you can’t upset the majority of players.
Can anyone even name 1 game that has a tank role, and it not only has a large player base, but is extremely fun to play?
@@nycempirestate4689paladins has plenty of fun tanks to play that are allowed to be good and not feel like ass without being overpowered, or underwhelming, because the overwatch dps passive is just cauterize in paladins and it ramps up the farther into a game you get, so tank is important early game to keep momentum and earn points, but hard to hold without careful play late game
You always find someone willing to play tank even if there's no swaps in paladins because its just fun to play them mechanically
Im so glad rein is playable, im actually able to pub stomp comp lobbies depending on the map
Even the King Choice is struggling with Reeba
As a tank, I want to 1v5 with no consequences 🙂
Yo, no way! Sojourn and Kiriko are meta this season!? Good to see the balance team bringing some variety!
Like they could give anyone of us a patch and we'd do a better job lmao. Nerf kiri soj make sure hog muaga and orisa aren't meta then buff reaper. Boom the game is 100000000x better.
The venture cooldown change was amazing, but I still don't see them being above C tier in higher ranks, especially after the damage nerf. Like keep the nerf on drill dash but reverse the primary nerf
They are really good, teams are just now starting to play them, wouldn't be surprised to see them being played in Dallas
Yeah I can see them being very good, but C tier is the good spot imo @ondrejlukas326
Atleast shes not giga broken like back on release. But I think she needs to get buffed a bit more
@@zora508 they are A/B
@@deus2243 they
Se what I’m seeing is we are just back to season 1 and 2
Lore schmore, Hanzo's Scatter Arrow is gone because of how players used it.
Do something to Suzu as well.
tbh what i wanna see in a game mode is then try and make some of the hero other rolls, i wanna see support tracer
Honestly yeah I feel like they could go back to the drawing board on some characters and shift em around a lil
Seeing some supports become DPS would be fitting. Imagine DPS Moira or Kiriko.
Give me back support Sombra tbh
Maybe turn swift step into a small channel ability and she can be still shot at for maybe .5 seconds so to avoid those 1 hp runaways
Lowkey, just remove swift step, it kinda breaks the chatacter
It already has a cast time.
@@faelheavymetal Then increase it.
kiri should have 225 max hp change my mind
facts
Sure
every day i see the devs not even attempt a change like this is a day my soul slowly withers away
While the armor nerf does hurt Tracer, I still think she's s tier. Maybe you could put her low s tier, mainly because she's still the best dps hero to apply damage passive. Especially to tanks where she can constantly apply dps passive pressure onto them. Also her pulse bomb does more damage due to armor change.
Edit: About your Mercy take, I will also like to add revert her guardian angel change and she's still wouldn't be good. This current sandbox doesn't favor her what so ever. Dmg passive killed her healing and the hp increase changed the dmg boost threshold where most if not all dps heroes don't benefit from her anymore.
People talk about the dps passive a lot in relation to tracer but honestly that’s the least important part about her the ability to get quick picks and apply pressure/distraction is much more her strengths
But yeah she’s still S tier imo
Fuck the passive. Hinder = Dead Tracer every time. She should be B tier honestly.
76 is best for passive
@@KirbyOnCronica good tracer easily plays around hinder
@@mruptownK It. Auto. Locks. On.
I haven't played overwatch in months
I can't believe how much I've missed out
The games more of an addiction
@@snowykitten6860 yeah and I came back for another dose of toxicity
@@ranarman5866 why would you put yourself through that suffering? Lol
@@snowykitten6860 addiction
ive taken to just mirroring the enemy tank when i get counterswapped. either i get shit on cause im not good at that tank or i diff them on their own pick and inflict psychic damage. i find it to be a better experience overall tbh.
"The aura is with you" - Flats, 2024 (out of context)
Fun fact: Roadhog and Sigma were nerfed today
Hog got giganerfed on survivability and on his whole hog damage, really curious how this will change things
I think he’s still good just need a couple more brain cells to play him
@@cosmosxl326yeah he just has a wider chance at death and his whole hog got hurt a ton lol
As a hog one trick, the nerf really isn't that bad
Pretty sure the TaB nerfs aren't that major, and the ult nerfs didn't do anything. Still shits on tanks, if you get hooked into it you'll die. In fact increase knockback for zoning is kinda insane
Sooo im just spitballing here, what is mercy's revive is like storage system so she can be at least revalant now, like she can have up to 2-3 revives and also slightly reduce her revive animation time. If its to over bearing you can give her like a mini cooldown between the 2 or 3 revives where each time she revives her cooldown get longer until she's potentially all out. To make sure its not toooo broken they can make her more exposed by making her hitbox bigger or something like that. AGAIN.... just spitballing..... any recomendations, or questions
Hanzo buff idea: increase movement speed and decrease cooldown on dash from 4 seconds to 3. Doesn't increase his kill potential and only provides a more flexible play style. Thoughts?
we need winton and rien should get gigabuffed to another level above S
Winston is the best tank in the game rn
@@ondrejlukas326 no way you winton is best tank in the game rn in a Hog meta
@@neganlucille9302 💀
I can’t wait for ball and doom to get nerfed before kiriko
Not gonna happen
I honestly had thought once they released the DPS passive that it should only be activated when you hit a crit. Not sure how that would work with Junk or Pharah but I really stands by the crit rule as opposed to the debuff having 100% uptime.
As a Hog OTP, I was prepared to go on a tangent as to how he’s in a terrible state right now, but your comment at 1:39 made me reconsider.
Yeah I’ve just stopped playing till Mercy/Lifeweaver get either buffs or rebalanced. The only 2 supports I genuinely enjoy playing and they are so unenjoyable to play rn. There hasn’t been a reason to play this garbage game. This is the first time I have genuinely left OW and it’s kinda sad
they need to rework rez
Flats, your monkey analogy is kind of why a lot of us play and enjoy video games.
In Overwatch 1 I remember loving the tank role. The multiple options to run double tanks like Winston and Zarya but since Overwatch 2 it's just such a pain in the butt playing tank. I have no fun playing them anymore. The only thing that keeps me going is proving my team that I am a better tank than the enemy tank.
Uninstall is S tier
I need to take a shot whenever flats says i can train a monkey to counterswap 16:00
I rock fly rat and spaz rat again this season nice to have him back tbh. Spam rat not really working on most maps so you gotta have hrs with em to get value per map
Yeah ive been running junk in his good maps and cass in his bad maps and been doing really good in comp
Was really enjoying Ram this patch, but that's about the only tank I've dabbled with.
There has been only 2 instances where playing tank was fun:
1. Season1 when they were absolutely broken, single handedly dictated whether a team won or lost, literally the only people having fun.
2. 6v6 and yet if you bring it up people lose their crap.
As a mercy hater . My brain telling me yes . But I kinda feel bad for their players
It's fine, I still play her when I'm in the mood to. Then after the first fight I regret that decision and swap to Ana/Kiri/Moira. I love playing Mercy, but when the team is getting melted and you can't do anything about it.. well you gotta switch 🤷
as a mercy main, at this point I litterally almost dont care what they do to her. As long as she keeps her movement (preferebly gets the old 1.5 sec always no matter the tech cooldown back) I dont care. Take her rez away, take dmg boost away, change the way she heals completely, I dont care. Just make her viable. If you do something she has to aim with, my aim is shit but I will learn it over time. I just want a viable character with her movement. :c
A change to Suzu I’ve thought of is making it just a cleanse where it’ll cleanse effects and give you like a 2-3 second window of invulnerability to just negative effects because all the other shit it can do is insane
The thing with zarya is if you're playing solo/duo/maybe even trio depending on roles (also depending on ranking mainly looking at metal) you and your group will try to kill her but the rest of the team ignores her so shes gets super charged and sweeps or the team wont keep pressure on her so she just gets charge gets bubbles and sweeps and its so freakimg annoying
im a reaper one trick... :(
Me too we shall stay strong and wait for the rework
57:24 while rez as an instant cast would undoubtedly be more fun and fluid for mercy, i can’t help but feel the dps players seething at that thought being uttered into existence. i can almost feel them calling me slurs from here. if they want to help mercy without a rework then i fully believe that buffs to guardian angel, healing changes, and good buffs to valk would do the trick. they can reintroduce the extra healing at critical health for valkyrie only and reduce the cost of valkyrie. they could allow you to cancel valk earlier. They could count micro ga movements into the 1.5 second cooldown (for those who don’t know, micro ga’s are guardian angels performed when the ga meter is at of below 30% charge causing you to move very short distances quickly.) maybe make rez activate a little faster in valkyrie and remove its movement penalty all together. there are a lot of things you can do with mercy contrary to popular belief.
The use of Terraria Music makes me happy.
Jq needs the same 100 armor change as ram, or tbh she just needs something to do with wall tanks
OKAY GIGABRAIN IDEA! Let me know what you think PLEASE🚨🚨
when going into a match each person can pick 3 characters on their roster who they can bring into the next game
this way theres alot less room for counters but you still have variety and options in a match
you can pick new ones after
this hopefully will reduce the counter options and instead promote players to pick characters based on comps who also have strengths in a variety. While also still giving freedom to play who you want
It will also fit with a little world building because how tf do you have 40+ heroes all available in the same place
And most importantly it doesn't randomly select anything like the overwatch one hero locks or whatever
I'd like this, I hate counter picking, and I want to play who I want to play. However, I'd limit it to 1 or 2. I know swapping is "part of the design" (but so was open queue and no limits originally and those got changed) but I imagine, especially when tanking, you'll pick your main, then the counter to your mains counter, then the counter to your main's counter's counter, when queueing and we're kind of in a similar place. I feel like there's already a pretty low chance of changing to more than 3 heroes in a match, even with counter picking shenanigans.
Just go wild, lock in from the start, and play it out, regardless of how unfavorable the matchup is. It could land you in some bad matches, or some great matches, but tbh, constant counterpicking feels like ass in every game, so I'm for it.
@@Honey-Biscuit I mean yeah but I think it would allow for a more tactical way of designing teams
You pick 2-3 characters to play for the match all at the beginning
While yes you can pick a counter to your counter, it also stops the constant counter swapping to like 6 different characters
However as more tanks get added it will be harder to decide on just one single counter
Plus it resets every match so
@@atlas1924 oh yeah, it would absolutely be better, i just want to go nuclear and hard lock to a single hero, just to try it out as an experiment.
I strongly doubt hero lock would ever happen as a serious comp mode. But I'd be super curious to see if that "intrinsic design" of hero swapping is as big of a deal as its presented. The original design of overwatch was 6v6 open queue with no hero limits after all, and those things all changed. So maybe someone at Blizz will get a little silly and try it out. Maybe as a QP hacked event.
Either way, single lock or a small pool, I think you have the potential to have some really fun and unique games, with opportunities to try and make random comps work. Hero lock would easily become my favorite mode. (Plus new players don't have the whole roster unlocked, so they can't always swap to the necessary hero at any time either)
This could work in theory but not having an optimal pick + limiting players even MORE wouldn’t be good for the long run and changes the fundamentals on what the game was built on
Ball ult COOKS this season, I'm so happy they haven't nerfed yet
The only the about Bap that I’m not a huge fan of is how situational his ult is. Like, there’s almost never a bad time to use kitsune or Valkyrie, but window requires your team to understand how to use the window
Honestly as a genji main i think he could really use a buff, nothing major just a slight buff on primary fire and ultimate
Saying a tank like ball or doom is good when they aren't countered is so irrelevant. I haven't played a tank game without getting counter swapped since OW1
Would it be better to rank heroes for each hero type? A tier list for each hero type? To fix the issues with not having enough tiers (for tank)
love the backround music
I ain't gonna lie.
I'd rather fight Hog and Orisa then Ball
Hog still fuck ass busted though.
"Tank isn't weak it's just not fun"
"It's not about 6v6 vs 5v5" -refuses to elaborate or make any significant argument. (Bc she can't, she doesnt know what else to blame)
Yeah, so what is it then? Keep drinking the kool-aid.
How does the OW dev team taste in your mouth, Eskay?
Headshot change definitely helps doom a lot with randomly getting bursted. But with him having no armor and a smaller health pool for the ooc changes to work with, he really didn't get a lot from the patch compared to other tanks. His weapon also sucks against flat armor and it's much harder to punch the enemy tank into walls now. Basically he feels better to play cause you don't get bursted randomly as often, but his matchups against most tanks got a lot worse.
I think some of the issues with lifeweaver and unkillable tanks could be fixed with the implementation of like a cauterize mechanic like in paladins where as the game progresses any damage received gives a certain amount of heal reduction, this could solve the 3 minute tank duels that seem never ending and would give lifeweaver a reason to be used if he needs to pull out a tank and cleanse the anti heal, I don’t know, it seems like it could help some major complaints.
Junkrat is ftier he is so bad, just because people are playing him that always and only play him doesn't mean he is good. The only way the 5 dmg buff does anything is if you sneak up behind like an Ana scoped in while in the loudest hero in the game.
Literally all junk is able to do rn is effectively kill mauga, and that was all he could do in season 9 so nothings changed. Also reaper is F tier.
As a Mercy main, my dream rework would be:
1. Get rid of damage boost, it sucks.
Tbh at this point her gun provides more damage anyway. So if you're not going to heal, then just shoot your softballs at head height instead. Damage boosting just causes balancing issues that cause other characters to get nerfed, which only punishes those heroes in games they don't have a Mercy, and barely fixes the problem. There's no point in pocketing someone for a 1v1, especially dps, since the passive cuts right through her healing. And any other healer can turn that fight by instead just landing a shot or 2 on the enemy dps, while also still doing more healing.
2. Get rid of res, it also sucks.
You're way too vulnerable casting it, are rarely in a position to safely do it, it's very easy to deny, and your teammates are probably dying while you're casting it because you stopped supporting them to F off and res. It feels like I can only use it before a fight starts, or after it's won. On occasion I can turn a fight with it, but rarely. It also just feels bad to play against when it does work. Nobody likes making a good play, and having it completely undone for free.
3. Make E instead provide a small burst of temp health to her staff target (50 temp hp for 2 seconds, 10 -12 second CD because it would go crazy in Valk if she can use it too often).
A small burst of survivability so she can actually have some potential to save someone *before* they die instead of after would be nice, and it being temp health doesn't change her healing throughput but also gives her the option of buffing someone at full health when they hard press W.
4. Right click fires the Barbie blaster, even if she's healing with her stick.
Like her battle angel highlight intro, have her tuck it under her arm, and lock to her targeted teammate until she releases the gun and picks a new staff target (which could take maybe .15 or .25 seconds to unlock, put her gun away, and get her staff back in both hands for normal use). Often times your Mercy diff comes from whether or not she can provide some of the value that every other support in the game provides (damage) so I'd like to enable her to have more opportunities to try and provide that damage alongside her support while not being damage boost.
This removes the two biggest headaches from her kit, and would make her more engaging to play. Currently the only way I see to get her out of dumpster tier is to make a part of her kit a major problem (again).
This would never happen. . . but a girl can dream.
in the nicest way possible please do not get into my games if you think her blaster outdmgs her dmg boost
@@lavenderlilacs Firstly, my rank isn't low enough to get into your games.
Secondly, how strong do you think her damage boost is? It's 25% dude. Let me show you how worthless that is, and how wrong you are.
Lets say you're playing Ashe, you do 75 with your Viper while ADS. +25% is 18. You do 93 damage with a .65 second recovery time.. Mercy's blaster, does 20 damage and fires 5 rounds per second. In the same time frame she can shoot 3 times, dealing 60 damage without headshots. Landing a single body shot of 3, is better dps than boosting Ashe.
Pharah, one of her more effective partners, deals 40 damage on a direct hit, and 80 max on her splash. 1 direct hit is 120 damage, 25% of this is 30. Boosted Pharah does 150 damage and cant headshot. Mercy once again, 20 shots at 5 per second, can fire 3 shots for every 1 of Pharahs, if she hits 2 body shots, or even 1 headshot in that time frame, she's dealt 10 more damage than a boosted rocket.
Sojourn, S tier dps, deals 130 damage with her rail gun's alt fire. +25% is ~32. Boosted she deals 162 damage. 2 bullets from mercy, in .4 seconds deals 8 more damage. Once again, boosting one of the best DPS in the game is outclassed by a single headshot.
Reinhardt does 100 damage, +25% is 125. He gets one swing per second. Mercy gets 5 shots. 100 damage > 25 damage.
Bastion does 360 damage per second. Wow impressive! +25% is 90! 450 damage per second! Surely that beats her pistol right?! Mercy shoots 5 bullets per second, and can headshot where Bastion can't. So she can do 100 damage in 1 second, or 200 damage in one second. Even body shots are stronger than boosting a Bastion.
Cassidy + 17.5 < 20
Junk + 31 damage .6 delay < 60 (20 at .2 delay)
Soldier 76 +42 dps over 1 second < 100 dps
Shall I keep going?
Damage boost was only ever good for pushing heroes past breakpoints for one-shotting. They have taken this away from her by reducing her boost to 25% and by nerfing the DPS heroes. So if you play Hanzo, and I only need to give you 10 more damage to secure a kill with a headshot, you got it dude. Otherwise, I'm glocking, deal with it.
So, not only does damage boost suck, its problematic for the rest of the roster. Being too strong when paired with Mercy will get your heroes nerfed! This is not preferable for anyone! I literally do not want my hero choice to change the balance of your heroes, which is the primary reason for my suggestion to remove it.
If you read what I said, you'd also note that my proposal is that she heal while dealing damage. Meaning you lose damage boost, but gain pocket healing, while the damage is redistributed to her blaster, and both happen at the same time instead of choosing between one or the other. The damage and survivability for the pair are both improved with my suggestions.
So, in the nicest way possible, shut up. I have played this character for 8 years, I know how she works.
The only actual reworks ideas that could make mercy enjojable and playable for everyone without ruining the health of the game
As a mercy main i dont want rez to be instant i mean it can cause frustration i think that she needs 65heals or 60 and 20% more under 70% and not 50% so it can help with the passive of course her passive will be nerfed to like 25%.About dmg boost just make it to buff the bullets size by little and maybe take it to like 20 % at the point that is viable and unique. for her movement just not be depended by her allies and for her ult delete the 5 more healing and make her combine both beams
when will you make a tierlist for season 10 the mid-mid-midseason patch?
yeah sombra is hands down the main reason the half the roster isnt playable proof me wrong flats i DARE you
v easy to shut down a sombra when your team comms her dives, and you're fighting a 5v4 during her downtime.
@lavenderlilacs oh yeah, and that's where the problem lies, 95% of the player base doesn't use comms
@@lavenderlilacs Random players coordinating with comms ? 😂 Holy shit that's rich.
if your supports aren’t mercy and ana ur fine
@@fennectempest1590if you aren’t playing as a team in a team based game, that’s your problem
No views, strimmer fell off.
Please go play frogger
Fatherless behavior
eat cement brainrot copy paster child
Frogger is pretty good though
What happened to just saying FIRST
I have to agree with this list honestly. As someone who plays constantly all of your points were sound and just too true.
I'm a Flex main but end up supporting and main Mercy, I never knew just how little the damage boost actually was in practice, just that it was 25% more, I also usually tend to heal before damage boosting (outside of ults) because I want you alive, but I need to get more used to thinking long game with it and "letting go" in the moment in hopes the DPS succeeds in their duel. I've just had so much success outhealing damage in the past the muscle memory is there, I know in higher rank situations I'd be toast though.
On counterswapping, thank you, I thought I was crazy for always saying I wanna learn the strengths and weaknesses of my character when everyone always says to just counterswap. But what's keeping it from being an infinite game of doing so? If the enemy has a Winton after I happened to pick Genji, this is an opportunity to get better with him. I can see both sides akin to Pokemon typing, but alas there's always preference of play.
Idk but could a way of competitive play be like other games like LoL or even Paladins, where you ban some heroes as a team and chose the heroes in a ordem intercalling the teams, and then not be able to swap during the game help with the problem of couterswaping?
That sounds too complex for something like this. Maybe for high level tournaments sure you can ban certain characters but for normal comp this would be kinda annoying to try and agree on something. Who knows I don't really play other games maybe this works there but I don't know if it will here. Besides, this is more of a band aid fix of banning characters rather than just fixing the characters or re-adding the second tank.
Man. Now I wanna go play some Lifeweaver.
Suggestion: make descriptions or explanations for your tiers! If you have reasoning per tier, it’ll massively help with being clear about why you put characters in places.
I've been been saying it since OW2 launch. Give tanks increased immunity to dps and support cooldowns and negative effects. Similar to sleep dart on tanks.
For example, make it where Hinder only slows and damages tanks. But doesn't stop/cancel abilities (JQ ult, Rein charge, Sig flying in ult) or like before the Zen changes to discord. Make it where discord only makes it 10/15% damage increase instead of the 20/25%
And for the TankVTank match ups make it where hard CC (Rein pin, Hog hook) stays the same. But make softer CC (Orisa spear, Doom punch) still does less CC tanks. But it'll still do more than if a DPS/Sup had that same ability.
Basically Soft CC and Negative status effects, will be weaker against tanks if a DPS/Sup applies it to a tank.
And for TvT match ups, make it where Hard CC stays the same, and the softer CC does less. (Ex. Dps/Sups cds and negative effects do 50% less, softer tank CC does 25% less. )
Or something that would be much harder to make a reality, give tanks more options to counter abilities and give them some form to Mitigate CDs. Not just damage.
Rein can block anti nade and sleep. Hog can't. But that gives Hog a weakness. So if we gave Hog a way to proactively Mitigate anti nade.... it would give Hog more ways to counter play.
Idk. Tanks either need more (passive) sustain against CC and negative effects as a whole. Or they need more ways to outplay things while also not being completely "uncounterable"
Like ZenVTracer. Tracer has an advantage in that match up. But Zen can still out play her and win. Tanks don't really have that option as a whole.
talking about TTK as well (as a metal rank GAMER - i used to be a plat DPS player, now sitting comfy in S1) ive been playing since OW1. i have built muscle memory surrounding the old HP pools. My muscle memory no longer works so i feel like i either am forced to play heros im not comfortable with (Cass, Pharah, any burst DPS that doesnt do 'tracing aim' very well) or just not get kills/do well. it feels terrible, EVEN IN QP.
Reaper still absolutely flourishes on some maps. Antarctic peninsula specifically
love ball and i be winning , sadly when i get stun locked into death without being able to move is unfun. Each win was like working a second job.
Yeah on top of the balls cannons are so trash wish they would buff it 1 extra damage per shot
He should've made a tier list for each role, would've been easier to take in by the end
i bet they could even bring back mercy's triage healing as well now
id actually like to see a more complex damage/heal system where you can set different damage output for different heroes, with such a system you could make a hero counter a specific hero w/o making it counter every hero in the game, you could do the same w healers maybe something like zen is a robot so maybe he heals other robots better than he heals humans.
my point is that such a system would make it possible to make a hero stronger or weaker against another hero and not mess upp the rest of the balance
I adore this idea but realisticly, it would make the game wayy to complicated, especially for newer players.
@@katelintv352 that is actually a non argument when you think about how many of the players actually understands the game :) so there will be no difference to that
I love flats for calling out crybaby doomfist mains 🖤
what if they added a swap limit in the game? only 2 swaps a game would be cool to see so people can play the heroes they want and it could punish swapping too.
Someone in this video made a comment about how they’re a ball main and I agree with them so much, they can’t have fun because of counter swapping and seriously I think tank will never be fine no matter how OP they are because of counter swapping. Counter swapping can affect every character in the game but tank’s have the most counters out of all the roles, I honestly don’t even think having a second tank would even help that much because that just means you have another person who can counter you as well so I have an a teammate may not even matter.
Literally this issue is so big that most people just think adding another tank will fix it, if you really just wait one minute and think you’ll realize that is only adding more steps and means the second tank is just gonna constantly have to counter swamp one of the tanks and you have to counter swap one of them as well. Adding another player would not fix anything, it would just make it where you have to wait longer to get into games and now you have to deal with two tank’s and you have to hope and pray for your teammate to choose the correct tank.
I agree counter swapping would still be an issue in 6v6 as well you'd just run two tank counters as well either two hard counters or one hard counter and one soft counter etc
Counter watch is happening now because we have like 100 RUclipsrs and streamers all making charts, and tier lists so any player even bronze players can figure out what's meta and who counters who in under a minute
They even have bite sized Tik toks for people with brain rot and the attention span of a goldfish so even they can understand the meta
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 you are completely correct as this is what happens when people learn so much about stuff in video games, even people who don’t have much knowledge and are low ranking will know how to counter most things. So I understand the logic of adding another player so tanks don’t have to fight by there self but that is adding another player who can counter you plus it’s making it where you have to rely on your teammate, I don’t see why everyone is thinking 6v6 would make everything better because that just means it’s out of your hands and no matter how good you are, you will probably lose if your teammate those for a bad choice against the enemy tanks.
@@kctheshadowman9651 Also in order to make 6v6 they gotta water tanks down a lot because they now gotta be balanced around a partner so all the tanks are gonna get way more boring because they need to be weaker to fit a second one, longer cooldowns, weaker effects, way less ult charge and lower HP it's such a drag but apparently people like that style of tank better
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 yeah…but then that’s literally just a fatter DPS, like I don’t enjoy playing tank that much either but I’ve been going against people in quick play that go two or three tanks and you can never do anything no matter what, but if they make them all weaker then they’re kind of just going to be boring Plus I don’t even think that would fix anything as counter swapping would be a even bigger issue so it still wouldn’t feel good. Like dude I literally just thought about it and if a team goes road hog and Rein then the road hog can’t even be countered because he would get protected by shield so Anna literally couldn’t even do anything against them and no other character could either.
I find it ridiculous ball cant grapple out of spawn but kiri can just tp to point from spawn on overtime