The Holy Bible, Knox Version
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- A review of The Holy Bible, Knox Version, published by Baronius Press (ISBN 9781905574599). The volume is a sewn leather-over-board hardback with gilt page edges. Text is printed in a 10 point font and is formatted in a single column about 85 characters wide. The paper is reasonably opaque and ghosting is not an issue. This Catholic translation is based on the Latin Vulgate and includes the Deuterocanonical books in their normal order (i.e., they are not separated into a separate section).
I don't mention this in the video, but there is at least one typo in the notes. On page 121 of the New Testament, note 2 states that "Many of the beast Greek manuscripts omit this passage ..."
Detailed Contents
00:00 Dimensions, margins, layout, font (three charts)
00:41 Size compared to a Catholic Book Publishing Company NABRE
00:55 Size compared to a P.J. Kenedy & Sons Douay-Rheims Bible
01:12 Size compared to the Image Revised New Jerusalem Bible
01:32 Size compared to a Roman Daily Missal
01:50 "On Englishing the Bible," by Ronald Knox
02:19 The ISBN, 9781905574599
03:00 The page layout
04:40 The font in the text
07:25 Paper qualities (weight, opacity, reflectivity, color)
08:30 The words of Christ are NOT in red
08:55 Knox distinguishes 'thou' (singular) from 'you' (plural)
10:20 There are no headings
11:15 The Bible is sewn, not glued
11:42 The paper paste-down construction
11:57 The ribbon markers (red and yellow)
12:35 The gilt page edges and the tail band
12:57 The Bible lies open in Genesis
14:00 The copyright page, with nihil obstat and imprimatur
14:26 The table of contents
15:26 The foreward
15:50 The publisher's note
16:16 A close-up look at the text
17:12 The font compared to that in the Revised New Jerusalem Bible
17:39 The font compared to that in an NABRE
17:56 The font compared to that in a Douay-Rheims
18:26 A sample from Genesis 1, the creation
18:44 A sample from Exodus 2, the birth of Moses
18:50 A sample from Job 1
18:56 A sample from Psalm 22 (the Lord is my shepherd)
19:01 A sample from Isaias 53 (the suffering servant)
19:08 A sample from Luke 1 (the Annunciation)
19:18 A sample from John 1 ("At the beginning of time the Word already was")
19:24 A sample from 1 Corinthians 13 (charity)
19:31 The vocabulary -- Daniel 10 ("making sad cheer" and "cressets")
20:36 Conan the Conquerer also contains the word "cresset," which means it's not too difficult for teenage boys
21:06 2 Timothy 3.13 - rogues and mountebanks
21:52 An elegant translation at Philippians 3.9, 10
22:32 1 Thessalonians 3.2-3, "our appointed lot" -- a comparison to the Douay-Rheims
23:29 The word "nature" may not be the best choice in Romans 8
24:23 An odd rendering at Daniel 12.1
24:35 An odd rendering at Amos 9.1
25:06 An odd rendering at Isaias (Isaiah) 7.14
25:21 An explanatory footnote at Matthew 24
25:43 The footnote at 1 Corinthians 15.51 draws attention to a variant reading
26:24 1 John 4.14 - Knox inserts the word "apostles" to clarify the meaning of the text
27:18 1 John 5.7-8 - Knox thinks the Three Witnesses passage may be original
28:23 Matthew 24.12 & 13 - Knox employs classic gender inclusive language
29:11 Psalm 144 (145), an acrostic in Hebrew, is translated as an acrostic in English
29:57 Summary
A detailed review indeed. Thank you. For the peculiar terminology used in the Knox Bible, please note that it comes from the established doctrine of the Church. For example, use of "NATURE" as opposed to "flesh", is from the Catholic teaching on NATURE and GRACE (grace perfects nature, etc.). Knox Bible translation of the Holy Bible is, firstly, *doctrinally and theologically correct*, and then from it, adequate rendering was chosen to clarify verses that, otherwise, could be understood wrongly, or in a heretical manner. An example is Fatherhood in Ephesians Ch 3.
Let me demonstrate how Douay-Rheims, Knox Bible translation, and some modern translations deal with the issue, and how all but Knox Bible fall short in definition of the faith. 'Pater' is Latin for father. In the British English, however, 'pater' is used too, but is informal, in between dad and father. Therefore Father and fatherhood bear dutiful reverence. Msgr Ronald Knox, who was the British, in his excellent translation of the Latin Vulgate goes,
“With this in mind, then, I fall on my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, that Father from whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth takes its title." (Ephesians 3:14-15)
which is what Latin Vulgate says, "Hujus rei gratia flecto genua mea ad Patrem Domini nostri Jesu Christi, ex quo omnis paternitas in cælis et in terra nominatur…"
Msgr Knox re-emphasises "that Father"; he uses God the Father term again to start a second part of the sentence, (long sentences are St Paul’s trademark) so that readers would not skip over the comma, or conflate the long sentence and think Jesus Christ is now the father too. That is the mistake which the Douay-Rheims makes, as it translates,
“For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named.."
Douay-Rheims translation bothers not to distinguish requirements of two very different grammars, thought patterns, and possible theological errors therefore resulting in understanding. Going for "literal" translation from the Latin in such cases means doing a very sloppy job, because the ideal in translation of Scripture should be *the correct theology comes first*.
Greek text uses "πατέρα" and then "πατριὰ", and this second could be translated as the 'family'. Msgr Knox puts that in the footnote of the text, though, but re-emphasises meaning from the Latin. Latin Vulgate rejects the Geek possibility, and clarifies the theological point by using "omnis paternitas", which undoubtedly reveres the fatherhood.
Modern translations, like NAB, would like to avoid such commitment, therefore opt for Greek version to diffuse the matter to the lowest possible denominator,
“For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family* in heaven and on earth is named,”
and emphasise ‘the family,’ for it allows that in today’s world text of the translation slips under the radar of the guardians of political correctness, who are highly tuned to pick up “ misogynistic” beeps. This NAB translation could work well in matriarchal societies too, or same-sex unions because someone could force the conclusion that “as long as it called *a family*, it is allowed by the Father in heaven”. Very untrue, but such wordplays are common among those who wish to change premises of divine and natural laws.
It is not for no reason that the Church cherished Latin Vulgate; it is inspired translation, and preserves the faith of Latin fathers.
Excellent study! Share more if you can, or send me stuff personally!
very interesting, thank you!
As a Catholic convert I appreciate these reviews! Great job!
Thanks for the encouraging comment, La Fe de la Iglesia!
Without doubt, this is the *best* review of the Knox Version on RUclips. I only wish more would follow suit! We would love to hear your thoughts on Knox's pamphlet, "On Englishing the Bible" as well. It's a fascinating read!
Funny-just last week I was thinking “it would be great if R. Grant Jones looked at the Knox Bible.” It’s a lovely translation. Good footnotes, too.
Thanks very much for viewing and commenting, Ignis Rosaque!
Thank you for doing this version, I appreciate it very much. I find your reviews of bibles to be the most informative reviews I've seen on the web. Please keep doing what you're doing because it is needed. There are so many different translations out there and your reviews brings the diverse options out of ambiguity for everyone, helping all of us make better decisions when purchasing a bible. Excellent work, and again I appreciate everything you do.
Thank you very much for the encouragement, Forgotten Man!
I’m wondering if you might do a review of Catholic Bible Press’ NRsV Catholic edition and do a comparison between that and the Ignatius RSV 2nd Catholic edition and the Augustine ESV Catholic edition. The difference in certain verse translations would be interesting going from more word for word to more dynamic.
@@forgottenman749 - thank you for the suggestion!
I am impressed at your ability to remember the page location of the word cresset in Conan! Thank you as always for these reviews. I think each new translation that I see gives me a new perspective and an expanded vocabulary is something that is beneficial to everyone.
Have this edition, and, as always, thank you Dr. Grant.
Thank you for the wonderful reviews! I appreciate all the work that you put into each review. It’s my view that your work in this genre sets a high standard for anyone who wishes follow. I’m a big fan of Knox. He tried to fill a rather huge gap in early to mid-twentieth century English language Roman Catholic bible translation. Many Roman Catholics today are unaware that his translation of the Bible is approved for use in the liturgy. Hopefully, your excellent review will encourage a greater appreciation of this unique translation.
Thank you very much for that encouraging comment! It's good to know these reviews are of value.
Excellent attention to detail. Interesting and informative. Thank you.
Great review. Im always surprised at how many different translations of the Bible exist, and intriqued when there is a review of one I never heard of. Interesting. Makes me want to get out my old Jerusalem Bible.
I enjoy your use of maps as a desk table cloth for your reviews. :)
Kids from the 30s reading Weird Tales probably had a better vocabulary;-) I appreciate the diversity of your reviews, most protestant would not care about a translation based on the Vulgate. Just reading a french translation of the latin I remember thinking : so this is where the KJV took that from. Keep up the good work.
Thanks very much for the kind comment! Howard, Lovecraft, and Smith often forced me to the dictionary.
I just bought this bible, your video was very helpful. Thank you!
Thanks for letting me know, Matt D!
I really quite like the Knox Version, but I find the Baronius edition’s column annoyingly wide. The Baronius Douay Rheims and Vulgate parallel seems to have the same issue. In my opinion, a Sheed & Ward edition from the original run in the 50s and 60s is much easier on the eyes.
HaHaVids ever so slightly too wide yup!
Thank you for this very detailed review of the Knox Translation. I appreciate it!
Thanks for the kind comment!
Thank you for making this video! I recently got a hold of one of these and am on the fence as to how I feel about it. I find it difficult to read but can't quite say whether it's the translation or the formatting I struggle with. I do find it hard to track the width, and the lack of quotation marks also causes difficulty for me. The paper is probably one of my favorites however!
Thank you for reviewing this great Bible translation
Thank you for taking the time to comment!
I love the Knox bible, love reading it. My go to bible at home
I love your reviews - thank you for taking the time. Any chance you might do a review of Loreto Publication’s Haydock Douay-Rheims? I think it may be the only in print unabridged version of what was once a very popular Catholic Bible, but it is so difficult to find any reliable information about it online.
Outstanding review
I didn't know you could still get it, my copy is from the 1965, thanks for sharing God Bless
Thanks for commenting, Gypsy!
Have you ever reviewed the Waterproof Bibles? Love your well detailed and informative reviews.
Another great video. I really like your book reviews, some times I watch even if I know I'm not gonna get the book. You did however Mr. Jones provoke me to get a Tyndale house Greek New Testament Readers edition. And I am so happy I did! I am curios to know what bibles you read continually when you do read? What are your favorites? You seem to have many.
Thanks for the question! I switch from one primary Bible to another frequently. Recently, I've been using an older Bible I found on eBay. It's a Revised Version (RV), printed in about 1898. This copy is unusual for an RV, since it's in verse-by-verse format. But I usually also read whatever passage I'm studying from a second, more free translation, such as the NRSV, the NEB, or the Jerusalem Bible. The more interpretive translation I've been using most often in recent weeks is a Zondervan NRSV Journal the Word Bible with Apocrypha. (When I read the Old Testament, I like to compare the LXX. I usually use the New English Translation of the Septuagint.)
Huzzah!
I asked if you had considered the Knox Translation and pow- you posted this fine review a week later! Talk about "customer" service...
I would agree with just about all of your conclusions here. I find I enjoy Knox but I'm periodically grabbing my Douay-Rheims to check out an especially cheeky rendering here and there.
You said at one point (in this review) that you don't have the Latin (NT?) and don't read Latin. Allow me to suggest, a fine little Latin/English New Testament. I know just a bit of Latin myself but truly enjoy this edition, reading the Rheims translation side-by-side with the Vulgate:
Loreto Publications, Novum Testamentum/New Testament, ISBN: 1930278659, hard cover, opaque paper, bold print, one ribbon.
Be well sir.
Very well reviewed.
Loved this review of this translation of the Holy Bible! I’ve been lately collecting some ‘one man’ translations such as the Moffatt translation, the JB Philips, Robert Young’s Literal Translation and the Knox. Could you recommend any others?
I've heard good things about Darby's translation, but I haven't seen it myself. The Modern Language Bible had multiple translators, but I believe it was based on George Verkuyl's translation. I've enjoyed reading it over the years.
Thank you! This is a very interesting Bible. I have heard of it, but I haven't seen or heard much about it. I am not sure about how I feel about the Psalms set in paragraph format. I think I will have to find a copy to borrow.
Thank you for the view and comment!
Although I know little English I look at your reviews and enjoy them
his excellent work. Regarding the review of the Revised New Jerusalem Bible, it is disappointing that it is not faithful to the editions within the tradition of the Jerusalem Bible, it should be called The CTS Revised New Catholic Bible, as it seeks to meet the requirements of a liturgical version and not a Study Bible, as it should be when bearing the name of the Jerusalem Bible. In Spanish, the latest revision of the Jerusalem Bible is the fifth edition of 2019 and contains an additional 130 pages of study footnotes compared to its previous editions, while its similar English edition is poor on this matter. Thank you very much for your contributions and I hope I have correctly expressed my opinion in English.
Ribbons can be prevented from fraying with a light application of clear nail polish.
True. I've done that myself. The ribbons in this volume were already frayed when I first opened it. Thanks for commenting!
When you get around to reviewing Baronius' Douay-Rheims-Challoner Bible, I am curious what you have to say about its editing (or lack sufficiently thereof).
I've seen reviews that mention typos. When I ordered a few books today, I almost included the Baronius DR, but decided against it. Perhaps Baronius will issue a corrected edition within my lifetime. Thanks for the commenting, Gerald!
@@RGrantJones Ah, I really hope you do review it, I haven't seen any typos with it :(
Spotted a typo in the Baronius edition. Gen 32:22. Says "Jacob" where it should say "Jaboc".
Thanks for commenting! I hope Baronius Press corrects these typos in a future edition.
Hi man you should review these new Catholic bibles too:
St. Joseph New Catholic Bible 2019
The Word on Fire Bible 2020
Great Adventure Catholic Bible 2019
Amazing translation that I'll add to my collection, shame its a bit unknown
Very much appreciate your detailed reviews. However, one suggestion: your sibilance is distracting, even painful at times. If unable to fix w/EQ, perhaps increase distance or tilt your mic off axis a bit? Thanks!
I noticed you don’t have the Knox translation on your translation continuum. Where would that lie on the spectrum of formal and dynamic equivalence?
5:54 “Dynamic Equivalence” (Paraphrased)
I love the Knox version
The better Douay-Rheims version, IMO, is from Saint Benedict Press in leather. The paper quality is superior as is the binding over the Baronius Press. The only downside is that the Saint Benedict Press edition is a red letter. I have a copy of both.
You the man! You carefully address the questions one has about the characteristics of various editions/translations. excellent. Your content is substantial! But, my two cents: I regard the so-called "gender inclusive" translations as abuses of both English and of Scripture, and I'm a woman. Pretending person is the same as man leaves out the angels, who, along with the devils, are people too: as are the three relationships of the Triune God--the Three Persons. Things said of man are not said of angels, devils, or of the Triune Persons, so you can't substitute person for man. And leaving out the noun altogether departs from the concrete, making things less clear and more vanilla. And "anyone" is not the same as any human being, for animals are "ones" too, so are trees and even rocks. Such toxic nonsense. The correct approach is to teach English speakers normally, as always used to be done perfectly well, that one knows whether man is used generically or not by the context. AND God is referred to throughout Scripture as a male, that is, as Father; and Our Lord is definitely a MALE. What is this nonsense against males and toward NEUTERing everything and everybody, so that all experience is a sterile wasteland!!! We women are sufficiently elevated by the fact that the most excellent human being who ever lived was our sister woman, Mary, Mother of God. I will not buy a GI bible. very perverted. Anyway, thanks and blessings. I'd like to see your review of Lattimore's bible translations...
@R. Grant Jones, Can you recommend a Bible that has both the Latin and English text in them? Thank you!
I'm not familiar with Latin-English editions, so I'm not qualified to give a recommendation. But I've heard good things said about the Navarre Bible.
I would think the Baronius Douay-Rheims-Clementina Vulgata side-by-side is good.
I used to read the Knox Version rather a lot in my early to mid-twenties, but as I gradually became aware of its paraphrastic renderings, I reverted to the Auhorised (King James) Version and the R.S.V.-1st C.E. Knox' English style, though, is bewitchingly lovely.
I have the Douay Rheims this Ed. I would like to have Knox Ed. Thanks for your review.
I'd like to have a copy of the Baronius Press Douay-Rheims. Hopefully its paper is as good as that in this edition. Thanks for commenting!
R. Grant Jones it’s ever so slightly more translucent - at least in the standard sized edition
@@RGrantJones I think from your description it . Thank you for your reply I will look forward for more of your reviews.
@@RGrantJones First of all thank you! Second, I am guessing the DR (Challoner revision, which is what Baronius sells) is more literal. I have read that some feel it too slavishly transforms Latin words into English, that it is a Latinate translation. I know you have issues with TR textual basis, but I wonder if you think using the KJV is fine anyway.
@@FernandoSerna1654 - Thanks for commenting! Even though I don't read Latin, I'm confident that the Douay-Rheims is more literal than Knox. That's clear from the similarity between the DR and Greek-based relatively literal translations like the KJV. Regarding the KJV, I use it myself. I disagree with KJV Onlyism and with the more recent theory that history, particularly sixteenth century history, somehow shows that God endorses the TR. The TR family of editions represents an excellent attempt at reconstructing the original New Testament text based on the limited information available to its editors.
Where can I get a Latin Bible if possible?
I don't own a copy, but I found this searching the internet: www.amazon.com/Biblia-Sacra-Vulgata-Vulgate-Bible/dp/1598561782 . There appear to be other options, some with English translations (www.amazon.com/dp/1905574444/ref=as_sl_pc_tf_til?tag=mentalsystems-20&linkCode=w00&linkId=cd7e865b87e656c78ad7eb71f9359013&creativeASIN=1905574444 ).
The Douey rheimes clementina bible is English and Latin Vulgate.
I have this Bible.
Thanks for commenting!
Is print darker since I have problem seeing bibles since print very light in color. Most bible only good for very young eyes.
The print is dark but it isn't especially large or bold. Thanks for the question!
What is Paralipomena?
Thanks for the question, Elias! We normally call those books 1 and 2 Chronicles.
R. Grant Jones Thanks for your quick reply! I didn’t know that. Great video btw.
Printed in the Philippines? I think not.
Look at 14:22 in the video. It is printed at bottom of page.
@@civrn368 I see. I saw it. I'm from the Philippines but I can't find this Bible available here.
Those who use the things of the world should not become attached to them. For this world as we know it will soon pass away.
~ 1 Corinthians 7 as the cool kids been posting it... ita ut nihil vobis desit in ulla gratia, exspectantibus revelationem Domini nostri Jesu Christi,
And now there is no gift in which you are still lacking; you have only to look forward to the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ. As Knox translated it Corinthians 7:31
Nature? This kind of translation discourages me a bit from purchasing this version
A boot is a boot.