THRUSTING Swords, Patton & the SWEDISH Cavalry M1893
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- Опубликовано: 29 дек 2020
- The Swedish M1893 cavalry sword and the part it played in the story of cavalry sword design at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries.
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Развлечения
13:00
This is probably because in the type of military saber fencing taught in Sweden in the 1890's, the so-called "Swedish School of Fencing," all cuts and parries were performed with the handshake grip, the saber grip was only used at the moment you extended to stab your opponent.
Interesting!
And still using passibh footwork.
@@scholagladiatoria in the video you called it the model 1911 not the 1913 you probably did this by mistake but the m1911 is different sword all together
"...But in the UK, we'd 'MORE CORRECTLY' call that a sword."
Damn, shots fired haha
I think the correct term would be pallasch. A pallasch is a sword blade combined with a sabre hilt.
In Sweden it would have been considered a pallasch until a certain point in history, I believe, but then we changed the official definition of "saber" to be more about the shape of the hilt and tang and stuff like that. So, a lot of straight swords could or could not be considered sabers depending on _when_ they were made.
In Swedish the m/1893 is called a sabre as well. sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabel_m/1893
Hi, I was a military police as a conscript 88-89 and we used that sword and a mauser m94 karbin as the royal guard during our parades for changing of the guard at the kings castle in Stockholm ( högvakten ). And they still do.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Guards_(Sweden)
Nice T-Shirt!
Swedish Cavalry was very well regarded by the British public during and after the Napoleonic wars. I think we often don't realise how much more prominent Sweden used to be in European affairs than they were during the latter half of the 20th Century.
Yeah. Sweden became gradually less and less prominent in european affairs after their defeat in the great northern war. I find it quite ironic how Charles XII, the king who was thrown into war at a young age and spent the entirety of his adult life trying to defend his country, ultimately giving his life in the effort, is rememberd by some as a warmongerer, while the period after his rule is called ”the age of liberty” which is characterized by numerous failed attempts at recapturing their former glory, by senselessly participating in and starting wars they neither had the resources nor competence to win, culminating in the loss of finland to russia in 1809.
Thanks for information
My grandfather had one of his (officers version) service sharpend when volountering in the finish winter war. His other one has seen service when I had to kill a mouse at home. As always interesting video.
Excellent video. The U.S. Model 1913 Cavalry Saber -- the designation given Patton's sword by the U.S. Army Ordnance Department -- has two significant similarities with the Swedish Model 1893 Cavalry Sword: on both the grips are in line with the blades and both have long double-edged thrusting blades. It's important to note that Patton competed in the Modern Pentathlon at the 5th Olympic Games in Stockholm, Sweden. He was 5th in this event, numbers 1 - 4 were all from the Swedish Team. Again, thanks for the video.
I like it
The swedish "huggvärja" (aka pallasch) has its roots in the Pommern war between Sweden and Prussia (1757-1762). The prussians used pallasches and swedish cavalry found itself at a disadvantage (as their lighter swords would often bend or break in cavalry clashes). The officers corps adopted pallasches rather quickly, but for the common soldier the redesign would take a bit longer. The result was the m/1775 with a pallasch-like blade but retaining a more traditional hilt (though the hilt would rapidly get heavier and more simplified). At the beginning of the 19th century they'd start to adopt saber-like grips and through-out the 19th century the swedish cavalryswords would be more or less heavy-bladed straight-edged swords with strong cutting ability while retaining good thrusting-ability. The main differences would be in the stylings, but not really the functionality, of the hilt.
"Huggvärja" literally translates to "Chop-Rapier" - I suppose that explains its use a bit?
@@victorpedersen585 Hugg can also mean cut/slash and värja can be used for many pointed, narrow straight-edged blades. The etymology is from "värja" (to defend yourself), so it has its roots in the swords primarily for civilian use (although the military adopted the "värja" in the late 16th/early 17th century, and definitely by the swedish involvement in the 30-year-war)
@@fiendishrabbit8259 Ah I see! Interesting, I hadn't thought about the 'värja' part. As for 'hugga' I realize I was translating more in the sense of chopping wood than anything else.
Did they revert to the 30 year war military rapiers or the Prussian designs ? This sword except for the hilt seems more like the earlier ones.
Theodore Rosevelt purposed a new kind of cavalry of armored motorcycles !
Mad Max cavalry
Sweden still have cavalry units but they are now motorised using helicopters, all-terrain vehicles and snowmobiles.
@@Jonsson474 That's not too different from the UK, where some armored units are styled as lancers. Great point of interest, glad to hear it.
@@DragonTigerBoss The same applies to the US as well, with armored units tracing their history back to horse cavalry units and even to this day, utilizing traditional cavalry unit designations such as troops and squadrons.
@@Jonsson474 Every modern military uses "Cavalry" units.
Here in the USA we had a strong cavalry arm, but we used it differently than the traditional British/European manner.
Given the sheer size of the US and its territories, a mounted force was critical and was used predominantly as a patrolling and scouting force, which tended to then go on to actually fight dismounted. This is a trend that begins with the birth of the USA and continued right up until the early 20th century. While large traditional cavalry charges certainly happened, especially in the war with Mexico in the 1840s and the Civil War during the 1860s, the predominant school of thought by Army commanders was to use their cavalry as scouts and flankers, with the idea that when they would encounter an enemy force, they would report back and in the meantime dismount and serve as a blocking or skirmishing force until such time as the Infantry and Artillery could be brought up.
Post civil war, the cavalry resumed its patrolling, scouting and semi policing role out west, where vast distances were the norm. During the so called Indian Wars they would be used to locate Indian raiding parties and, if they were small parties, would engage them dismounted.
Troopers carried their trusty saber, but also carried a Colt revolver and a Springfield, trap door breech loading carbine, and were proficient with all of them.
When people think of American cavalry, post 1865, we think of Custer's 7th cavalry and their "last stand", but there were many other cavalry regiments including the very famous and tough Buffalo Soldiers, who were black soldiers.
Fun fact: General John "Black Jack" Pershing, Commander of the American Expeditionary Force during WWI, did not get his nickname because he liked to play cards, but rather because he made his name commanding black troopers. He and his black soldiers even fought alongside Theodore Roosevelt and the Rough Riders in Cuba at San Juan Hill.
US cavalry was used right up until WWI, most notably in Mexico again, when they were chasing Pancho Villa all over the Mexican countryside. That group carried the last purpose designed cavalry saber, the famous Patton saber, design by George Patton, later of WWII fame.
_"Svenska stålet biter, tamejfan."_
Happy to see you talking about a Swedish sword. I would really, _really_ love a video commenting on the "Hafström construction" family of swords, because they look very different from other swords of their period - I would dare to call them possibly the most unique of all 19th century European military swords - and as far as I can tell were practically only used by Swedish forces.
Im on the waiting list for a swedish M1685 sword at KOA. Not a terribly expensive sword at around $300 US but i handled one recently & man it really surprised me. Great cut & thrust sword.
Matt, thank you for covering another one of these swords. I own a M1913 Patton. Having you talk about both the 1908/1912 and the 1893, the Patton seems like a combination of the two. The hilt of the Patton is very similar to the British, curved grip for point alignment, recessed thumb groove, but when you spoke of the feel of the blade of the 1893, I thought, that sounds just like the Patton. Patton was a First Lieutenant stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas and held the title of Master of Sword, when he came to Europe. As a last little note, coincidentally when you said "used for tent pegging", I thought, I wonder if he knows the first scabbards issued with the Patton, had a small rod on the tip of them, to be used as tent pegs.
Your comment on Swedish design of swords, that we did not copy other nations swords but developed our own has been continued into modern time for military equipment. Sweden have always tried to be independent. We have the S tanks and the Swedish airforce with Saab J 29 Tunnan, Saab A 32 Lansen, Saab J 35 Draken, Saab 37 Viggen and now Saab JAS 39 Gripen. All developed by Sweden.
The m/1893 was made in three versions. The one you have is the simplest one made for privates and corporals. The other two were made for officers. The sword is still in use today for ceremonial purposes like the the royal guards, state visits, parades etc.
The modern ceremonial officers swords don't get a fighting quality blade regardless of the pattern though, they get a blunt ceremonial blade.
(My father was gifted one by king Gustaf V at my fathers sea officers academy graduation as he had excelled at the top of his class)
@@SonsOfLorgar That would probably have been the m/1915 though, issued to sea officers. It was actually made for ceremonial purposes.
@@Jonsson474 good to know, from the last time I looked at it, it had a very narrow and flimsy looking chrome steel blade with several decorative fullers and about 2mm thick blunt edges, and the guard was a simpler T-bar with a bar knuckle guard, I know the hilt type has a specific name but it eludes me atm.
Which is why the Jedi are French or American: the lightsaber is straight and to the British would have instead been called a lightsword.
Hahahak, it should really be a lightkatana XD
Which would make Dooku and Ventress British? At least their saber hilts had the more curved look to them that sabers have.
@@peterbrazukas7771 Dooku was actually british!
A beautiful sword, I love when you do videos about weapons from countries that have less accessible info (on their swords, etc...)
Yay a Swedish sword, finally a sword from my nation
Heja Sverige 🇸🇪
Kul! 😀
@@patrikrumin7981 000000
Remember the 1700s, when Sweden was super badass?
@@DragonTigerBoss How so?
I'm glad that you at least mention Swedish swords, now your subscribers at least know they exist.
A big leap forward, for your channel;
Loving that Prodigy shirt
Break and Enter, yow!
3:43 -- This is something that doesn't get talked about enough. In a global historical context, anglophone North America IS European. This also applies, to a lesser extent, to post-1800 Latin America, mostly when speaking in, again, a global historical context.
*However, comma, but!*
3:50 -- American cavalry was generally more of the light cavalry-stroke-dragoon variety, particularly in the run-up to and after the States War. We did not ever have an armored lancer cavalry tradition (though I understand there were a few units that "tried it on" during our revolution), and thus never tried to hold on to or recreate one. Our cavalry was always very utilitarian and, if I may, "working-class."
At 3:20 Matt went off for an hour about Charlemagne's use of multi-armed cavalry. Then he remembered the subject of this video and thought, "right, gotta put an edit in there." Give us more Charlemagne!
I have one of these and man, what a beast! And quite a long one, almost rapier length, but much thicker and wider and more forward weighted. Easily the heaviest, most unwieldy single handed sword I own. I would die immediately if I had to defend myself against a nimbler sword. Must've been wielded by a great big Viking descendant.
I like the Swedish M1893 - which is unusual for me, I'm usually more attracted to curved swords but there's something about this one ... great hilt as well!!
Thanks for sharing your expertise once again Matt :-)
Thrusting swords are clearly superior, seeing that they have more ｐｅｎｅｔｒａｔｉｏｎ. 👍
What a pretty sword! Thank you for sharing it with us - and I'd certainly love to see any other Swedish swords that pass through your hands, they seem very interesting. I especially like that blade; I keep thinking of it on a Munich-Town-Guard style rapier hilt. That'd be fearsome!
Thanks Matt, this was the first antique sword that I bought and it was very interesting to learn more about it.
In US Civil War, General Sheridan asserted that the cavalry was merely infantry with a detachable set of four legs. A key lesson was that rather than lance or sword, the most effective weapon was a large caliber repeating revolver. The M1911 pistol was designed in part for the cavalry, with the magazines as well as the pistol having lanyards.
It would be really interesting to hear an analysis on the Swedish Carolean sword, preferably the m/1701. I can imagine that the last part of the era of the Swedish Empire, and its grande finale with the Great Northern War, set the stage for all of Swedens subsequent sword models.
I'm not an expert on the subject but one book I read claimed the Carolean sword to be "one, if not _the,_ deadliest military sidearms" of it's era. So, yeah, I'd love to hear Matt's opinion on that one.
Very informative video ! Thanks a lot Matt ;)
Thanks for the video, very interesting. I have one m1893 myself and its nice to know more about the model.
On the topic of swedish designs being its own thing, I would love to someday hear your thoughts on the m/1853 infantry officers swords from Sweden.
The Hafström design on both cutlasses and sabers/swords is really interesting. I own a m/1851 navy cutlass which is a hefty little beast.
Years ago, as I was just beginning both my HEMA study and my collecting of antique swords, I came into possession of a Patton sword, and I was shocked by two things. First, that they're so damned heavy, and second, just how well they cut considering how narrow, straight, and thin the blade is.
Indeed, into the 20s, the Russian civil war's great battles and campaigns were dominated by cavalry. Shkuro's cossacks were Denikin's most decisive force, and the revolution would have been ended if not for Makhno's pyrrhic victory at Peregonskaya, largely won by cavalry and tatchankas, sometimes dismounted.
Ooh, so glad you made a video of a Swedish sword. I own a M1867 (cavalry saber), they are pretty common and cheep, but I never seen the M1893 on any auction sites. Now I really want one, love the straight pallasch blade on it. The M1867 has the same gard and grip, but an even heavier blade that has a slight curve.
Patton was a very junior officer at the time. If I remember correctly, he was a 1st Lieutenant (O-2)at the time.
So for a change, the committee that was going to decide on a new weapon listened to the people who were going to use it.
@@johanrunfeldt7174 Partially true. Patton was brought onboard and consulted not so much as to get the feedback of the end user but because he was something of a sword expert having studied underneath a well known French swordsman. So it was more a matter of consulting someone who was more up to date on the latest in sword tactics and development than the senior brass was.
This looks like a great sword, I would like to try it. On a side note, I saw a video of a 1854 Treuille de Beaulieu gun with a 1m long "bayonet" (sword), which I found really interesting.
That must be a very hard to forget bayonet.
Forgotten weapons
+scholagladiatora *The Rydderswerd 1893 (SWE) struck a balance between broadsword and rapier later seen in the U. S. Cavalry Sword 1913.* Would have made for a practical all-arms officer's sword in the Great War, as fencing was standard training in military academies across Europe and the Americas. Infantry packed a wide variety of firearms, but the individual weapon was the magazine rifle with bayonet; the cavalry packed magazine carbines and pistols in addition to sabres, but would need speed of horse to cross the kill zones of enemy infantry's machine guns even more than their forebears did to cross the kill zones of massed enemy archers.
@scholagladiatoria. I would like to see a video about Swedish swords during the Swedish great power period. you should read about it (early 17th century to early 18th century) it's very interesting 😉 my personal favorite is m/1701
7 tittare verkar ha varit danskar!
thanks for video! some points 1) WWI even in stage of trench war know examples of successful cavalry charges "with the sword only"in western front (Kenyon mentioned around 20 cases in 1916 - 18) 2) for WWI cavalry and british also "take and grip (until infantry advance)" rather then "hit and run"; 3) unlike P08 which Cavalry training, 1912 positioned as exclusively thrusting weapon , manual for M1913 and M1893 saw viable a cutting (Patton didn't considered it, because preference for point, but stated that his saber cut at least 1/3 better than previous saber, swedish manual considered cutting as a structural part of skill at arms with this model of sword)
When it comes to swords and Sweden, it could perhaps be interesting to discuss the tactics of "gå på" and if it had any influence on sword design.
If someone says first, Matt will come through their mirror while Toby holds them still.
Cant threaten people with a good time
@@Frank-bc8gg A gloriously short lived, bloody, momentarily painful, swashbuckling good time full of context! ;)
Been trained by a very old officer in how to use the M1893 when mounted. Have no experience on using it on foot.
Your mention on room for the thumb for thrust don't apply when it is hold correct. You hold it farther back and thumb inside for thrust.
When charging you have the edge pointing inwards toward the horses neck, so the blade more easily can cut its way out.
Of course with hand strap tightened.
We trained on cutting small trees, up to 2 inch diameter (about same resistance as a human neck). To do that your wrist must be turned so the sabre is angled so the tip goes first. Might be the reason why curved blades came out of fashion?
Personally I prefer the M1893 to the lighter and shorter cavalry officer sabre.
The M1893 was never used in war as we luckily has not been at war since the Napolean era.
I like this blade. Thrust oriented, sure, but obviously designed to be good in both the cut and thrust. Also, it would look right at home with late medieval arming sword hilt - it's pretty much an Oakeshott XVIII or XVIIId with a fuller.
Matt said that the Patton was basically the same blade as the Swedish one; but my understanding (and could be wrong) was that the Patton was never intended to be sharpened hence, a pure thrusting weapon. Change my mind.. ;-)
Fight on foot? Like Dragoons?
In the American West often Cavalry acted as mounted Infantry
They were Dragoons before the Civil War. During the Civil War, Dragoons which are mounted infantry and the regular cavalry were melded in to just cavalry. After the Civil War they remained with the title cavalry but were really again Dragoons because the saber was not good for patrolling for guerilla fighters. Sabers are noisy and were likely to be tossed on a long patrol. Officers had to account for their loss so they were stored and not used. I doubt if many were even trained to use one.
Calvary in the US evolved during the Civil War. From guard duty and poorly used scouts at the start of the war to 10,000 man mounted infantry at the end.
Stephan Z. Starr has a two volume book on the subject. He also did a presentation at the Cincinnati Civil War Round Table back in the 1950s. Unfortunately I can't find the shorter article.
www.amazon.com/Union-Cavalry-Civil-War-Vol/dp/0807132918
books.google.com/books/about/The_Union_Cavalry_in_the_Civil_War.html?id=LndWyAEACAAJ
General J.H. Wilson is often credited for the change in doctrine.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Wilson
One interesting factiod is that Secretary of War Jefferson Davis formed an elite Cavalry unit, the 2nd US Cavalry. It was led by some of the brightest lights in the army including R.E. Lee. All the officers went South when the war started except for G.H. Thomas.
Perhaps that explains why the North had to relearn the importance of cavalry.
@@57WillysCJ Most notably, the 7th Cavalry left their swords behind when they went and fought at the Little Big Horn for that very reason. Not that it would have made a difference had they brought their sabers with them.
Well since Patton was in Stockholm in 1912 for the olympics he may have studied swedish military before he went there. I believe he competed in military pentathlon.
Why wouldn't we want to know about a Swedish sword?
Except that I now need one in my collection.
Look up the term "Hafströms konstruktion." I'm pretty sure it's the most... _uniquely_ Swedish sword design in existence.
Pretty swords! Very beautiful.
The Swedish sword has an ambidextrous grip, like all truly MODERN sidearms.
Have you ever handled a m/1685 komissvärja or m/1701 drabantvärja? The m/1701 especially is supposed to be longer and heftier than contemporary swords of similar style, though that’s just what I’ve heard. Maybe someone in the Swedish military if the late 1800s wanted to do a callback to Charles XII.
I have a replica of the m/1685 and it is *heavy*.
Hexagon blade-shape.
I read that for a time it was used as a kind of surprise against the Danish or Norwegians (can't remember) to add a few cm on it giving it a temporary advantage until the enemies adapted.
340,000 of those swords made for the army.
Most cut down.
No I'm afraid I haven't.
The Patton M1913 was developed to allow full plunge of the sword and ride by without loosing the sword. The idea was to attack while riding at a full gallop and allows the blade to pull it out naturally as you ride past. Causing a fatal run through. You kinda missed the point of late 1900th century Patton cav sword. It was developed for that pass through attack.
"And the Egyptian Mamluks were accompanied by their fierce fighting hounds, the Marmadukes, as well as their warrior wives, the Mamadukes and their children, the Puttaupyahdukes and Dukiediapers."
Very interesting, now I will request a serie comparing the last swords in military service.
Seems like a very versatile and robust design. And yeah, swedish weapons in general are pretty great. We generally don't fuck around with engineering although we barely ever use the weapons ourselves.
That's why almost everyone used Carl Gustav products.
You really need to edit the 1913 Calvary Saber article. Bunch of comments about how if you thrust from a horse you'll fall of or break your wrist.
I think one reason Patton is so connected to the sword with his name is how much of a forceful advocate he was for it after it was made.
I was the 777th like! I love the videos and all of the material you have produced. On a side note...
I bet when you want to show off you swing those barn doors wide, and open up the glory of the Matt Easton arsenal!
Beautiful shields!
I believe that the last time the US operated pure cavalry as an arm was during the Civil War (1861-1865), complete with carbines, pistols and sabers, which were all used in varying scenarios during that war, especially by the Union cavalry regiments.
General John Buford commanded a brigade of cavalry at Gettysburg which was armed with Sharps repeating rifles, in part, which he used dismounted to stop the initial advance of Henry Heth's division of the Army of Virginia because of the force multiplier that the new repeating firearms gave his troops.
After the war, though called cavalry, The US Army in the Western Indian wars operated as mounted infantry, with the best example of that being the unfortunate George Custer and the 7th Cavalry in the engagement of the unified tribes at the Little Big Horn, which resulted in the death of Custer and more than 200 of his troopers. That was a dismounted fight that found Custer outnumbered more than 10 to 1 and outgunned by natives armed with Winchester rifles and modern revolvers, along with the usual bows and arrows, clubs, knives and tamahawks.
The British had cavalry reserves available clear to the end of WWI to take advantage of the mobility of mounted soldiers to exploit a breakthrough of the German line in France or Belgium. I know that the French were attacking with cavalry in 1914-1915, as my maternal grandfather, then a private in the Canadian contingent of the BEF, witnessed such an attack in 1915 where an entire division of French cavalry was annihilated by machine gun and artillery fire, with the dead men and horses stacked so high the dead could not fall down. The US had cavalry units in 1917, but they went to France without horses, or in the case of George Patton, to pioneer the use of tanks in the US Army as a replacement for the horse.
A reminder, Patton Swords were also used in China by US Horse Marines up almost until the start of WWII.
@@FencingBoomerang Mounted Marines was never really a thing after 1900, except for a unit of legation guards who used horses for transport during the period 1912 though 1938 in China. That unit never exceeded 31 enlisted and one officer in size. They may or may not have been issued swords. If they were issued swords, they were probably of the same pattern that are now issued to NCOs, the M1859 pattern sword that are now issued to NCOs for ceremonial duties only. I know of no evidence supporting a claim that the Marine Detachment in Peking had ever been issued US Army pattern swords.
There were even earlier examples of mounted Marines, primarily used as recon units. The Corps never organized anything like a US Army style cavalry unit as a stand alone entity.
You are correct that Patton was not the sole designer of the Patton Saber, but Patton did have enough influence on the design that he did consider it his saber. After it was adopted there were many people critical of it, and many newspaper articles were published criticizing it, and he wrote many letters of his own defending what he called "my saber". Rather remarkable, compared to today, that a junior lieutenant would have that much influence, but the US Army of the time was quite small compared to today.
Hi, awesome content as always! My topic suggestion is what were the swords that royalty used like and how did they differ from swords of noblemen and other high status people? Especially kings like Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden who went to war themself.
Yo representing the prodigy, big ups mate
Wow! Matt for Prime minister! I finally get to be European!
The word sabre is French, but in England . . . . "we would MORE CORRECTLY call it a saber." = @ D
One one hand, if the word is a French word then they probably get to define that word correctly.
On the other hand, categorizing swords by their blade type, seems to be more meaningful and intelligent, than categorizing swords by their guards.
I just want to point out that none of these swords would stand a chance vs. a Katzbalger, because Katzbalgers can cut through tanks!
That is such a menacing thumbnail
That is beautiful.
Patton did a lot of work in France and studied there I believe twice. However the 1913 has a symmetrical hilt, is not curved and was double edged (although only half of the back blade was sharpened) much more like the m1893 then the swords used in France at the time he was there. He did take third place in fencing as part of multi sport event in Stockholm so perhaps he was exposed to them there. He failed to medal because allegedly he finished 21st in the pistol competition however it is claimed this was an error as he believed one of his shots passed through a hole in the target made by a previous shot but it was ruled a complete miss as there was no evidence that happened. The manual he created is focused completely on thrusting and in mounted exercise and use of the edge by a trainee was to be considered a touch to that trainee. www.pattonhq.com/saber.html I am not sure if he discusses edge use in the more detailed Diary of the Instructor in Swordsmanship which was published later after the original manual of arms.
Aren't "dragoons" mounted infantry? Like, they move around on horseback, but fight on foot?
Originally that's what dragoons did, but as time went by a lot of dragoons basically became cavalry with a different name.
No. They were meant to be but that never worked out. Dragoons just became dedicated cavalry. In France they were heavy cavalry, in Britain many of them were light cavalry and were converted to hussars.
@@Entiox Yup
@@Theduckwebcomics what is the difference between light and heavy cavalry?
@@roentgen571 Mostly in impact and sticking power, heavy cavalry has more armor and was usually armed with lances so they can deliver a charge and continue fighting if needed. Light cavalry can cover more ground and is more valuable in skirmishes, hitting supply lines and enemy positions where stiff resistance isn't expected.
The guard on the Patton sword resembles the back half of a barbutte---or an automobile fender.
I'm partial to a little cut and thrust myself.
Would love to see a cutting demo from that hefty blade.
Another great video from Matt!
I would really like to know your opinion on the German KD1889 in this regard. Have you ever handled one, especially the pipe-back troopers version, and if so, what do you think about it?
Keep up the great work!
19:23 -- No but seriously Matt, you're missing out on the linguistic fun here. Do you mean the Patton Pattern (Patent Pending) Sword?? :P
When will you talk about the Spanish 1907 Puerto Seguro sword?
Officiellay, we in Sweden did not get involved in any wars from something like 1810 onwards. Unoficially, Swedish volounteers did participate in both sides in both the world wars. Did that mean the sword saw any action? Not necessary. It could have been used by some dude, but it was as an volunteer if it happened.
In practice Sweden has been involved in many wars after WW2 as part of some kind UN coalliton (or in more recent times, other kind of co-ops's like the operations in Libya, policing against pirates in other parts of the world etcetera).
Hobelars, a very interesting type of Cavalry. I would like to see a vid about them.
Just hypothesising, but something that may be taken into consideration were the tensions within the Swedish-Norwegian union at the end of the 19th century, leading into the dissolution of the union in 1905. Sweden and Norway did consider going to war. Additionally, Sweden may have been affected by the earlier Åland War and the tensions following the Crimean War, not to mention their own prior military engagements. While Sweden very much did their own thing, I doubt they were blind to the lessons learned by their neighbouring states. Especially when one of those neighbours is Russia.
I quite enjoy a light skirmish early in the morning.
Polish husars didn't use that many weapons i the same time.
They choose a weapon setup, to match an oponent.
If they met infantry, lance was primary weapon, but lance was very fragile and sigle use only, secondary weapon was estock or palasz(palash?), sabre was only third weapon if you broke estock.
If they met east cavalary which use hit and run tactic, they use guns, bows and sabre as primary mele weapon.
Rest of that was carry in wagons which was part the army.
One thing I've never understood,
When they moved to a thrust centric saber what was the reasoning to not just adopt Rapiers at that point?
(By Rapier I mean same blade but with a cup hilt over cross guard along with hand protection)
Isn't index finger over cross guard/finger ring a better way to thrust over the standard saber hold?
Thrusting with a sword from a moving horse is a tricky skill ( I recall Matt demonstrating it in a previous video), as you don't want your sword to get stuck in the target as you ride past.
If you make a mistake thrusting from horseback with a sabre hilt, the worst outcome is loss of grip on your sword (and your sword knot may help). If however you are using a complex hilt and fingering the guard, you have the risk of your fingers getting entangled in the guard, and being broken by the momentum.
I'm no expert, but would You really put Your thumb forward when charging on horseback? We call this a thrusting sword, but in a charge it is not at all a thrust that occurs, it is receiving the impact resulting from the relative motion. In this situation I'm not sure I would be looking forward to receive that kind of energy through my extended thumb in a position where it really has nowhere to go (safely) if it can't really take the whole force.
What do You think?
I contend the design of cavalry swords is more intimately bound with firearms than is realised. From the middle of the 19th century the development of cavalry firearms (first percussion rifles and carbines, then breechloading, metallic cartridges, self contained cartridges, and magazine systems) not only changed the tactical use of cavalry but also meant less time for training troopers in the use of the sword. Teaching them the correct method of how to stick the enemy with the pointy end eventually became the limit, far better to train them in their developing role.
To my eyes, the M1913 has always most resembled the Spanish Modelo 1907 (I own one of the latter...). But in any case, some lovely swords in this video!
Nice seeing a Swedish sword. 🇸🇪
More Swedish swords, please. You've said before that they did things a bit differently.
The Patton sabre has a very similar thumb depression (also textured) as the 1908p. The sheet metal guard also similar. The Patton blade does appear to be a copy of the Swedish 1893p.
My previous landlord had two of these - one sharpened an one not. Pretty bulky things, probably really durable.
And he called them pallasches, so I think that's what we Swedes call them. And Swedish seems to follow the continental scheme, in that these swords would be classifieds as sabers.
Do you still recommend the red dragon synthetic longsword? If so, what's your opinion on the flexibility of them and is there any way to make them stiffer?
Brilliant video! The 1893 is still in service for ceremonial use by many units. I have carried it myself during numerous palace guard duties without knowing much about it. We are as confused in Sweden as the Americans are and call this a sabre (sabel in Swedish). What about the infantry “sabel” 1899, does that classify as a pallasch as well or is it too small?
As I see it, it is called pallasch or more often a ”sabel”, meaning sabre in swedish. Rarely svärd/sword. I think the word sword were not so much in use for several centuries. A century earlier swords in use were called värja, which were basically rapiers, even rapiers with fair amount of cutting ability. Rapiers hade been used for couple of centuries.
Cheers from the city where the M/1893 and the M/1899 pallasches were manufactured! (Sweden also has that weird thing where everything is called a saber)
Also, can confirm that the 1893 is an absolute beast.
So is there a Swedish (Scandinavian) channel like Matt's
Would be intetesting
Scolagladitoria: This may interest you. I know little about swords and sabres though I have seen somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen of your episodes out of curioisity. That curiosity has been surred on by my father's sabre training.
MY father joined the US army in the mid-thirties. At that time, with little thought of imminent war, after his basic training he was sent to Fort Hamilton in New York City. There he was made part of a funeral detail. Members of the detail were required to wear sabres as part of the full formal uniform. At that time the army had a requirement that if you were issued a weapon you had to be fully competent with that weapon. So to be a part of a funeral detail meant you had to undergo sabre training. It is my understanding that during World War II, there was no time for such niceties and the regulation passed into the bin of history and that today swords are decorative and only issued to the leader of such squads when used, the squads only used for the passing of generals and eminent persons in the government- presidents, vice presidents, senators and the like.
Thus, my father was among the last members of the US army to be trained in sabre.
Oh I love that. Are there many sabres with symmetrical guards? I like a sword I can use with either hand. Incidentally, I just noticed how enormous your right forearm is compared to the left one... it almost makes it look like that arm is longer 😂
Hey Matt how's it going. So you talked a bit about thumb stuff here, and I have something related I've been wondering about for awhile.
I used to do sabre sport fencing, and I got injured after a couple pretty bad thumb jams (bashed bell guards together while flunging, and then did it again lunging a week later).
7 years later I still have a bad thumb. And that was just from the impact of lunging with my own human legs. So what I've been wondering, is how do people's thumbs hold up to the impact when your thrust is being driven by the force and speed of a /horse/ beneath you?
Great video! :) No, the m/1893 never saw any combat. Hower it has seen a long service life as it is still in use today, albight just for parades now a days. What regimental stampings does your m/1893 have? Should be a capital K followed by a number between 1 and 9. Cheers from Sweden!
The thumb groove and according grip on the british one,( to me,) looks like in a cavalry charge would break your thumb if you really hit something/someone. As the speed and force you have would mean your straight forward thumb would have to shoulder almost the whole impact force. While on the swedish one you might slide forward with your hammergrip until you reach the guard, but the impact would be transferred into the whole hand better.
Is there any chance you can talk about the danish officer sword, being primarily ceremonial these days. Danish officer sabre M/1789 ?
The symmetrical hilt saber is I believe the best looking saber hilt. It would pair well win a backsword style hilt.
In RUclips, there is a video ,which shows british cavallry men training fencing on foot from 1914.
Yeniceries were pedestrian troops, the ottoman cavalry was called sipahi/spahi
What do you think about the Goedendag, Matt? In terms of battlefield viability against swords and spears? Shadiversity made a video a while back about this spear-club thing and I can't stop thinking about it since.
it (and the very similar planson) became fairly popular in the low countries and france among militia units, but never court on completely amongst them, the spear/pike was still more popular amongst militia, so is probably either situationally superior to the spear or outright superior but noticeably more expensive. it is generally shorter than spears, and is heavier than most spears, meaning a spear would have a reach and/or speed advantage, however it was considered superior to spears against an armoured oponent. so it being situationally better is likely the reason it didn't become more popular than spears but popular enough.
however it was used as a primary weapon unlike most swords, so could probably considered better than most swords on the battlefield.
it was considered inferior to the bill/halberd/poleaxe but was also cheaper. it never caught on amongst other nations or amongst professional soldiers of the low countries and france. but then again the longbow didn't see mutch popularity outside of Britian, and thats considered a great weapon.