British Army Infantry & Rifles Sergeants' Swords From Napoleon to WW1
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- British Army infantry sergeants were at various points equipped with swords. In general they went on active service with the same or similar firearms to the private soldiers, but in some cases they were armed more like officers and in some parade conditions they were dressed with swords. Here we look at the fairly under-examined and misunderstood topic of sergeants' swords in the British Army.
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Matt would you be able to do a video on how to carry a military sword? It would be interesting to see how they were carried more practically on campaign and on parade.
When I heard ISD I immediately thought Imperial Star Destroyer, but India's Store Depot does make a bit more sense
God that it don´t exist a Laos Suport Depot. shortning that might get pepole the wrong Idea :)
My great grandfather was a sergeant in WW1 he was in the campaign with the Lawrence of Arabia and there are two photos of him in that campaign. One, where he and his officer were riding on horseback with around 100 soldiers behind them. And the other one, him practicing his swordsmanship with the same officer he was riding on horse back with and he was I think was using this sword.
For any American military viewers (where sergeant is a rank used down to squad 2IC's) sergeant is a much rarer rank in the British military and, at the time, a battalion of roughly 880 officers and men would only have 24 infantry sergeants (39 total when you included clerks, bandsmen and the like). The sword would be worn in addition to the rifle/muskets and bayonets which the sgt's were already expected to carry and which they were more likely use in an actual fight. So basically giving a sergeant a sword was some good idea fairy loading more useless gear onto the PBI and, by the accounts I've seen from the time, they were generally detested by the nco's.
See how they'd feel if their musket and bayonet got blasted to smithereens and they made it to a building but unfortunately stumbled on a trio of enemies all trying to reload their own muskets
@@Omniseed you could say the same about a modern infantryman. You can't just carry 20 weapons on the off chance that first 19 get broken. Soldiers spend far more of their time marching than they spend clearing buildings immediately after somehow surviving an incident in which their musket gets blown up.
Extra weight has always been detested by infantry in any army
I was light infantry, and extra heavy stuff was indeed detested (and often left in wall lockers)
In imperial german army , the most important/ highest rank Sergeant/ Feldwebel of a Battalion (?) had for some events/ occasions the same rights as an officer . For doing this special duty, they got an officers sword. This officers swords for Sergeants use, had been also bought by german army and put into armory with a stamp. By german collectors they are called Kammerstücke/ chamber pieces.
This is still the same practice as the contemporary Commonwealth. The Regimental Sergeant Major (Warrant Officer Class 1 for most, or Chief Warrant Officer for Canadians) is the highest ranking non-office in a battalion or regiment, and carries an officer's sword on parade, along with his Sergeant Majors' pace stick.
Matt .
One of my all time favorite British swords thus far is indeed the 1905 Sargent sword ..Absolutely lovely fighting weapon .
Here in the US, the Army, infantry, NCO sword has remained relatively the same since the Civil War. It is a straight bladed, spadroon style with the solid brass clamshell guards and an all brass hilt with a faux wire grip molded in. It was worn from the belt in a frog, and I've seen leather sheaths that incorporate both the sword sheath and bayonet sheath as one unit. They were primarily made bye Ames manufacturing out of Massachusetts, however other manufacturers made them as well, presumably under license. The example I have was made by C. Roby and Sons,also from Massachusets, in 1863.
The modern , ceremonial, Army NCO sword, is basically unchanged in design except it usually more ornate, sometimes gold plated, sometimes with an etched and inscribed blade, (these are private purchase not issued) .
Interestingly enough, because the design is the same, NCOs are free to carry a Civil War period antique sword, but with a new scabbard, presumably because the scabbard must look pristine for parade purposes. I was a "big brother" to 3 boys and the eldest joined the US Army. When he was promoted to Staff Sergeant then Sergeant First Class, I purchased an antique NCO sword made by Ames in 1861, and purchased both a nickel plated metal scabbard and a leather scabbard (which I had engraved for him) and. Gave it to him as a gift. His officers and senior sergeants thought it was so cool that he was carrying a sword that had in all probability been carried by a Sergeant in the Union Army during our Civil War. Although the sword is very seldom worn except in full dress parades, and not nearly as prevalent as in the British Army, swords are still much appreciated in the modern US Army.
Ooh that 1905 (1912) model is really pretty!
The practice of requiring officers to purchase their own mameluke swords in the US Marines is still current.
NCO swords are maintained as part of the armory inventory, and are issued to Marine NCOs as their use is required for ceremonial purposes only (these days, anyway). Enlisted Marines are not required to buy the ceremonial mameluke sabers.
I'm confident that the swords of British Army sergeants and other noncommissioned officers were handled in a similar manner, although it may have been the practice in the British Army to permanently assign a sword to an enlisted soldier. I'm also confident that, like the US Army and Marines, if the sergeant lost the sword, he was privileged to pay the Crown for its replacement in inventory.
I love a video that isn't just telling us stuff. Historical knowledge is fuzzy.
The 1905 sergeant's sword has got to be a cost saving measure, they had surplus 1899 cavalry swords and converted them rather than buying new swords. The question is why were there surplus 1899 cavalry swords? If it had been 1908 then the cavalry would have been getting a new sword.
Hey Matt, thanks for another great video! Similar to this topic, would you consider making a video about the US Marine Corps' NCO and officer's swords? They have a long history and are still currently an authorized uniform item. Cheers!
I have a nice Mole R.E. sergeants sword circ 1870 with blade etching but without proof disc and in its place govt inspection markings. It has a black leather scabbard with brass fittings dated 1900, an obvious correct replacement most likely while used in India. The sword does have the brass hilt with lovely pierced guard.
How about a a follow on video about the Sergeants themselves and the history of the rank?
How they started out in Medieval times as professional soldiers "worth half a Knight" and how the title is thought to be translated from "Servant."
How they were said to serve as the Kings bodyguard, what a "Serjeant at Arms" was and is.
How it evolved into the rank it is today.
How some Cavalry Regiments don't have them.
Lots of interesting history there!
i recall reading somewhere that "sergeant" came from the knights templar, when the knights dressed in fine, white fabric, and their underlings dressed in undyed serge garments, hence "sergeants."
Dao and messers are my preference but you’re slowly converting me into a sabre enthusiast
The 1905 is one of, if not the, best British sword pattern - it combines a highly protective guard with a useful cut and thrust blade. And one I'm lucky enough to have in my small collection.
I'm also partial to the 1821 heavy cavalry sword and it's derivatives, as they too combine a protective hilt with a cut and thrust blade.
Looking at that wall behind him, I'm reminded of a scene from Twister.
Neat I always thought a straight wilkinson blade with a symmetrical hilt would be a perfect balance for a cut and thrust sword.
Maybe the sword owned by an officer, had a backstory like Richard Sharpe.
On the subject of the mystery of the 1905 pattern's existence, I wonder if there is any merit that it could actually be less to do with a specific need for sergeants to have swords and more to do with the cavalry troopers' sword.
For those keeping track at home, there were two trooper's swords around this period - the 1899 pattern (a cut-and-thrust blade) and the 1908 pattern (a dedicated thruster). If memory serves, the 1899 sword wasn't particularly liked at the time and I find it curious that (relatively) shortly after the 1905 infantry sergeant's sword was introduced and using 1899 blades (the then current trooper's sword), they introduced the new 1908 trooper's sword. As such, could the 1905 pattern have been created so to help the army justify the cost needed to introduce a new trooper's sword despite having only "just" introduced a new one less than a decade ago? (i.e. "The infantry sergeants need new swords so we're spending the money anyway either way, and those guys barely even use their swords!")
I personally, like the idea that it had more to do with patronage and supporting particular manufacturers.
Follow the money...
Two possible reasons for remanufacturing the cavalry swords as sargeants' swords: firstly, to save money on making brand new blades (typical of the War Department ), secondly because sargeants didn't like the 1880s & 1890s thrust centric swords. Sargeants didn't have the opportunity to practice that officers had nor would they have been as able to afford private instruction, a sword that was a better cutter and handled better might have suited them.
A third possibility is that the scabbard of the straight blade messed up their parade uniforms and tgat was unacceptable.
Mrs Easton: So, what would you like for breakfast, Matt?
Matt: It depends on the context
Matt! May I ask what was the point of the “folding guard” in the sword you demonstrated? I’ve never seen that before!!
It makes then much more comfortable to wear and doesn't damage the uniform so much.
Was also kn
The handguard won't be poking your upper leg.
"Relevantly breafly" compared to Lindibague
Another great video, very interesting and informative. A topic very much in need of more research. And as an Infantry Sgt, thanks for implying I'm thuggish.
Great video, it's really interesting how little is known from the 1800's, it doesn't seem that long ago.
I don't believe this been watching u for years I bought one of these infantry tho at a auction last week cheers Matt couldn't I'd blade cheers xx
My first guess regarding the 1905 question you bring up:
There might have been fewer horses in future plans while there might have existed a surplus of cavalry sabres (or just raw components for them).
My second guess would possibly be a misorder by the War Dept for too many issue model cav swords. I do know that some armies (historical and current) were equipped with particular items simply because of a convenient supply, misplaced decimal, or by mistaken order to contractors.
Thanks for sharing. I'm glad you touch on this subject.
Whenever someone or some online retailer mentions gunmetal, I always try to ask for photos. When it's a color, it's grey but when it's a material, it's got a golden hue.
Good topic!
Since the 1905 pattern seems to be such a great design, is it possible that someone in charge became enamoured with it and decided to issue it just because it was too good to pass up?
I like that 1905 Infantry Sargeant's sword, unique grip.
Would you go as far as saying that the 1905 pattern Sergeant's Sword is the sword that everybody who needed one on foot could have done with throughout the 19th Century?
Strange that we don't really know why they introduced a new pattern of sword just a few years after the sergeants already _had_ a new sword. You'd think that by 1905 there would have been a paper trail explaining why.
I wonder if they found a depot full of 1899 cavalry swords and decided to repurpose them. I can't imagine they could lose track of enough cavalry swords make this worthwhile, though.
Happy Boxing Day Matt. Ah! to live in a time when swords were more common and tastes would change and subtle changes would be reflected in what one would carry in a sword. The folding hilt; was it for easier carry and I noticed it didn't lock to the scabbard as in the Navy weapon, was the hinge a weak point that could fail in a clash and lose your thumb?
Mr Easton, would it be possible for you to briefly go into the likely Sgt sword types to be carried by British NCOs in the Revolutionary War period? There doesn't seem to be much information about that era. Thanks.
I posted this on the FB page, but I'll reiterate here; when you talk about the "checkered" part of the backstrap, is that the term used by sword collectors/experts? I know that in tooling it's called "knurled".
I got such a hybrid blade on a RN officer sword dating ca. 1845. I can find no information on these blades.
Knowing sergeants I can see that thicker guard being used as a pretty effective knuckle duster in close combat, depending on how soft the gun brass is.
Perhaps the conversion to the "1905" sword was used as a way to use a surplus in budget somewhere.
@scholagladiatoria does that make a 1796 sergeants Spadroon more desirable?
I bought an 1822 British officer sword with another sword I haven’t been able to identify. Not in the best condition. The story I was told is that they where found in the wall of a Victorian house being renovated behind lats and horsehair plaster.
... I just grab one from over here...
thats how it is in the Easton barn aka sword heaven 😆
Barnload of swords
Bales of sharpened steel
Is that a bayonet lug on the back of the hilt of that 1890's Sword?
"let's talk a little bit about swords"
proceeding to talk for 24 minutes XD
Matt Matt I got a very important question, what is the blue thing above the door in the background? my eye accidently fell on it, and now I cannot not see it any more.
motion detector for the security system is my guess. Or the receiver for the automated door opener if he has one installed.
I really like these Sergeants' swords - the plainer, more utilitarian "fighting man's sword" speaks more to my soul I guess...
Another fascinating, fact-filled video for us to feast upon .. Many thanks for sharing Matt!
I wonder if the intended plan for the remodeled swords was to sell them to other nations where modern warfare had not yet caught on.
I hope the book answers that and other questions.
Crazy to believe that was in service little more than a century ago
What did Mad Jack Churchill carry in WW2?
Matt: 'I'm going to be talking relatively briefly...'
Me: [looks at 24+ min. time stamp] ...
.......
I heard folding guard and was disappointed you didn’t show it in detail. Did you do any videos detailing it?
As for 1905: Knowing what I know of the military adopting things that aren’t really needed, is there any possibility it’s A: some lobbyist’s creation and/or B: some bureaucrat /officer's pet project? Those seem to be common explanations for military programs that make no sense (alternate F-35 engine, and M-14 rifle being comparatively modern examples)
I'm betting on the same mentality that required the inclusion of the magazine cutoff on the original SMLE rifles. The dinosaurs in the Royal Armories thought that charges should be led by men carrying swords and rifles should not be allowed to fire too rapidly. Then the age of the machine gun and modern artillery taught other lessons.
The M14 was a natural outgrowth from the US Caliber 30 Rifle M1. It was, and is, a very good battle rifle and is still issued in conditions that warrant the extra power and range to the squad rifleman. In full automatic fires, the M-14 is an effective grazing fire or fire suppression weapon system.The M4 rifle, in the other hand....
@@boydgrandy5769 That's what Springfield said. In practice it couldn't reuse nearly as much M1 tooling as the claimed it would, sending costs far above the estimate, and the rifle literally loses its zero if it's simple held the wrong way (not a problem for the FAL or G3). There's a reason Springfield was axed soon after and its name pawned off to a company that hates America and thinks you need to be told where to grip a pistol.
M16 rifle/M4 carbine is a fantastic example of bureaucrats screwing things up. The original Air Force guns were well loved. It's when the Army bureaucrats started removing features like the chromed barrel (well established technology at this time, as it was standard on every Japanese WW2 rifle), issuing ammo loaded with the wrong powder, and ordering the disposable magazines reused that it acquired its reputation.
When was the last action that truly put an infantry sword to use?
What sword would sergeant major marching up and down the square have carried?
What patterns of sword were most used by the spanish between the 17th and 19th centuries?
So... When Matt says he'll talk briefly about something... :P
Interesting!
Would love to have one of those 1905"s just because my grandfather had one, it's too bad his is gone but the family needed the money in the great depression and us western dirt farmers in Canada were in bad shape lol.
can u do vids on lightsabers, guns, nukes, those things dentists stab ur gums with, etc
Another video from blade Jesus
I wonder one thing about all the military issue swords, especially since they kept changing between more thrust-centric and more cut-centric designs: a lot of it comes down to personal preferences and prior training. Doesn't that create a lot of discomfort and drop in moral, if you change patterns against the will of their users?
At the end of the day it's a sharpened lump of metal. If changing from one sharpened lump of metal to another bothers you that much you're not really a soldier.
Besides for NCOs the thing was mostly ceremonial. And most of the time they would've have been fighting with the same weapons as their men.
Personally I would have merely shrugged. After all it wouldn't have been any skin off their back.
Sure the Officers probably were bothered by having to buy new swords every five minutes. But who cares about noblemen.
@@clothar23 I have a small blade collection at home and from that, I can tell you something might look beautiful, but feel super awkward for you and another might just like it. Some like a bit of heft, others more a responsive blade. Some like a tight grip, others like more freedom in movement.
Sure, in a pinch you'd smack your enemy even with a giant, pink d!ld0, but even though it hardly matters in a life or death scenario on a rational level, even little things like the boots, the uniform, the weapon make or break your confidence and that is very important for moral!
Trust me, uncomfortable boots and an ill-fitting uniform that nearly strangles you every time you move your neck and restricts you whenever you lift your arms will greatly reduce your confidence, both in your supplier and in yourself!
sabres also functioned as status symbols.
Matt. You forget Sergeants sword pattern with solid brass grip! 😃 Didn't you?
Yes I did, though I don't think anyone understand where they are supposed to sit in the story!
@@scholagladiatoria I like to understand! I have one.
if i were to expect a big war comming up, wouldn't it be logical to increase army size? so you would need more blades for more sergeants?
Hey Matt can you do a fight review for the spear vs dual swords fight in Mandalorian S2 E5 between Ahsoka Tano and Morgan Elsbeth? I've seen the episode twice now and Elsbeth's fighting with the spear just doesn't seem...logical to me? I'd really like to hear an expert opinion on this fight because it really failed to impress me.
In addition any discussion about Ahsoka's general icepick grip and fighting style would be great too. I love her character but I've always felt like her style unnecessary crippled her for the sake of being "cool".
Does your friend Steve make sword videos?
Unfortunately not, but he posts on Facebook pages.
Never even considered sergeant's swords to be a thing, but it stands to reason that they needed a parade sword. They couldn't really be seen to be beating privates with a swagger stick during official parades, giving them a sword keeps their hands busy.....
Those are not swagger sticks. They are pacing sticks. Officers must carry swagger sticks else they would have nothing with which to beat their horses.
Wish this was Pre-Napoleon
the backsword was reinvented multiple times in history.
Are sergeant swords still property of the State ? If not how could a private collector get one. Were they sold by the state ?
Quite a few of them have been sold as military surplus along the years and both my 1889 Staff Seargeant's sword and Wilkinson M1907 SMLE bayonet has the "Sold out of service" marks on them. As old models are phased out, it only makes sense for governments to sell them to recoup at least some of the expense while freeing up storage space for the new models. Interesting thing to note is that the bayonet was issued and stamped just as WW1 ended in November 1918, so just bounced around a few warehouses and got check marked a couple times before being sold as surplus, since there were literally up to a couple million of those bayonets around by the end of the war.
@@Kageitenshi Thanks
Who is that man in the thumbnail
Why the 1905? Well my guess is that the the guy in charge of swords at the ordinance office had and uncle who just happened to own a sword refurbishing business. :-)
British officers use angry birds as artillery
From the middle of the nineteenth century, why sergeants swords? Fullstop. Ceremonial maybe, but active service?
There is one possibility.
Sgts form up behind. Is the sword meant to prevent the formation from breaking and fleeing?🇦🇺🐨🇦🇺
Historically, Sergeants held halberds for exactly the purpose - a bit like the Roman Optio.
Didn't Richard Sharpe carry a NCO Sword? I think an cadre of officers really didn't like the new blade and they created their own weapon.
Sharpe had a cavalry sabre, heavier than the standard infantry officer sword.
@@martinphillpot2010 But isn't Sharpe supposed to be stronger and taller than the average man? So him going for power over finesse is his character trait.
Non commisioned officers worked for a living and had to live on their pay
Now I want a 1905.
Almost every Sergeant's sword I've seen from the Victorian era seems to be a Mole. Was this pretty standard?
Mole were the biggest British government contractor for swords after about 1860, with Reeves holding that title in the 1850s.
@@scholagladiatoria My 1889 is a Mole from October 1890, but instead of a brass or gunmetal guard, they seemed to favor an iron containing more cuprous alloy that forms a rather nice dull brown patina in a matter of days, even if accidentally polished off. Stumbled across a conversation about that mystery alloy on the internet that seems to have been lost to the sands of time when I tried to find it again. Sadly the sword was sold without a scabbard, but the price was an absolute steal and for whatever reason no one else bid on it. It opened my can of worms for collecting swords and bayonets from both sides of the 1900's, plus a nicely Japanned 1796 LC. Been trying to find a scabbard for quite some time now, but for a rare sword with an even rarer scabbard, with dozens of other 1889 models from around the world to saturate search results, I've had no luck.
As with modern uniform worn by infantry regiments ..its worn there own way ..swords be no exceptions ...
And the US stuck to it's 1840 NCO Sword. Sigh. Would much rather have that steel rifles hilt with a proper plain jane Wilkinson blade.
"Spadroon" mentions drinking game
Hey Matt, why are you making so many videos on british swords now? If you want to lure Ian out to do collab on Forgotten Weapons series you need to offer him French sabres or uniforms.
Unless...
You're summoning Lindybeige, aren't you?
One thing is for sure: if you’re issued a sword and wear it, you had better practice and know how to use it, including tricks like half a swording, etc.
I told therm we already got one... -snooty French Knight.
An army is only as good as its NCO's. A good officer with poor NCO's will lose with the best strategy in the world, an mediocre officer with top-notch rankers will often win because his NCOs will get him out of the crap.
Class system..... 🙄
too much sabre on this channel?
Lasted 3 minutes of utter waffle and lost the will to live. Bye