Thanks guys, you made my mix of Brompton and train ride this morning in the dense urban habitat of Amsterdam even more delightfull. I wish the train had also 650b.
Always thought of Ronnie as the “influencer” of the brand, but both are equally engaging storytellers and lovers of cycling, and your questions set them up for just that. Easy hour to zone to.
The shat that was laid on suspension on gravel bikes there at the end was a moment ill love forever. Simpler the better is the name of the game. Ill be buying a mullet set up soon as my next check clears that bank account.
They look like amazing 650b tires.I completely agree that the bike industry has a huge disconnect between companies and real riders that speed a ton of time riding and using equipment. I personally have met a person that worked in the bike industry and had no background or experience. Then got into cycling as they started their job. It’s funny that you mention the old XC tire, those 1.9 -2.1 tire where super light but felt like crap.
I ordered a set of Rose Race when they first released last August. As a fan of Rene Herse the Ultradynamico seriously delivers. Gotta love Patrick's tricked out Open U.P. with Red AXS on the bike stand behind him.
Paper still works man, i still use it. I really enjoyed this video, one of my frickin favourites, i love the bikes, love tires. I want to try 700x38s. My hutchison cobble tires were 38s and fine, but they flatted. I might get my 650b on this weekend. But i do have my first aero wheels coming with 25mm contis lol. Yikes! Thank you so much.
Speaking from the European/Irish perspective, I find that 700c with tyre thickness between 35-40mm is the perfect rubber setup for gravel/adventure cycling. +80٪ of the time, you're going to be riding on tarmac anyway, as rough dirt roads where suppler tyres could come in handy are quite hard to come by and they're usually private tractor access roads, which should not be trespassed. Thus 38mm should be supple enough in most European adventure scenarios, which in reality is rugged road riding / trekking over here rather that truly epic offroad exploration of remote wilderness.
It's what our grandmas used when riding to the store in the fifties, when half of the roads in the village weren't paved anyway. Single speed & uphill both ways.
@Russ you do a good job interviewing, letting the interviewee speak naturally unlike a bunch of interviews I've watched that feel forced like someone's got a checklist they're trying to run through
I saw these tires in our local bike shop and thought it looks really cool! It will definitely going to used in my dream gravel build! It’s really awesome to know the guys behind this company.
This was an entertaining and informative live stream. You do a great job of keeping your guests on track. Ron's filter background was amusing for about 5 minutes, then it got annoying. I've ridden 29ers since 2006. The changes in geo and rim widths has made there biggest difference IMHO. I tried 27.5+ on a MTB and hated it. I see why some riders like 650b for all road, but I don't see the benefit for wide open gravel and dirt roads like we have in Nebraska. With that said, our MTB trails here are very turny, and I've never had a problem with my 700c/29er. As well I'm 6'2", and I believe in having wheels proportional to the size of the rider. So I can see why a 5'6" rider would prefer 650b/27.5. Rene Herse tires are amazing. It sounds like this company is using very similar casings, but adding a little tread. Good luck to them! More options is always good!
Amazing presentation. Fascinating and entertaining. Good work, Russ! Ignoring my usual rule of 'don't read the comments', it appears some people heard the stream, but weren't listening...
hahaha Jan Heine, the german god! As a die hard 700c guy I'm excited about the 42s to come. I like to preorder a Riesling up front and Chianti in the back. Please.
I am a bit late to this party but hey what a podcast! This made me smile from ear to ear. Just how long and how much fun can you have discussing small batch tire design for a sub niche (650b) of a sub niche (gravel) of just one of many cycling disciplines?
Great interview/conversation! I think they missed the point about suspension on gravel bikes. It's not about fashion, or comfort, it's about traction and control. The suspension is there for the same reason they designed large volume supple tires: to keep the contact patch in contact. I don't personally want a gravel bike with suspension, but that doesn't mean it's a solution looking for a problem.
Giant have tried really really hard to push 650 mountain bikes for about three or four years now. I think the market is slow to adopt because it's been told for the last ten years that 29 is the way to go 🤷♂️
If you go wider handlebar and are running disc brakes ( *ducks from Benedict/Ronnie*) make sure you get a tandem bike brake cable because the width eats up a lot of the cable.
@@PathLessPedaledTV my bad Russ, I updated my comment. I meant "wide handlebars". I am running Spank Flare 25s on my Slug, which is built for my geo so it's large, with Klampers and the standard road short pull cable (60" or so I think) was too short.
I think suspension would be a very different conversation if shocks were like tires, $50 things that take 15 minutes to replace. In that case, I would be open to the idea of a suspended gravel, or even road bike
Path Less Pedaled the Steilacoom’s did start a conversation with Ted King in his home town gravel race in New Hampshire last year, we were using the same tires and wheelset. Very friendly, enjoyed the talk and race, also enter another race in Vermont he was in, with again matching tires and wheels. Wouldn’t mind a little smaller knobs on a well made tire, but unfortunately racing in 650’s isn’t going to happen, tried both with my power meter and it’s just not as efficient. My 650 rim set is only used on my Open UP when I’m going through more 1 by stuff with my kids or if I want to take a few little jumps. I’ve gone through three sets on 700 tires while I’m still on my original 650 set with no need to change.
I love my Bruce Gordon Rock N Road tyres on my Planet X Tempest Titanium gravel bike! What surprised isn't how fast wider (non-smooth) tyres can be, but the fact that although a quasi-49 year old beginner cyclist I managed to make it into the Strava Top Ten on some local road segments. Top Ten that includes training-crazy fanatic ultra-triathletes & roadies. I can't wait to try a wide slick, not Ultradynamico though, not available in Malta (Europe). Probably some Rene Herse version...any input please anyone?
You guys should check out/ branch out to the mountain unicycle scene... lots of similar problems. Unfortunately the unicycle scene is trying to copy the big brand bicycle business and (unintentionally) copying all its duplicities/ pitfalls
Okay look. 650 is great but I think 700 is the way to go. Look at what is happening in the mountain bike world. 26" was the defacto standard for forever, then it went to 27.5, and now it is going to 29" (700c). Why? Because bigger wheels have 1) a larger contact patch with the ground which means more grip 2) a bigger diameter wheel will roll over rough stuff better without getting sucked into holes like a smaller wheel. Also, if you do a fair bit of paved riding a bigger wheel has better characteristics for long haul smooth riding--once you get it up to speed a bigger wheel has more inertia. I just bought a salsa vaya and it can fit 700x50mm tires easily. That is plenty, I think, for pretty much any application. Why can't frame builders make 700c frames with much larger clearance and then we would have the best of both worlds. 650b made (and still makes) sense when you are dealing with a frame with limited clearance, however, this smaller wheel doesn't somehow have intrinsic comfort built into it. The only benefit of a smaller wheel is the ability to put bigger rubber into a frame that usually wouldn't be able to handle it. I'd rather have the efficiency of a 700 wheel with its larger contact patch in a frame that can handle a big tire, than a slightly plumper tire on a smaller wheel on a bike originally designed for 700x40mm tires or something. I feel like I just shouted into the void so sorry if this didn't make sense. I just find it hilarious as a mountain biker to see gravel people going to smaller wheels and saying that you will have better offroad experiences when mountain bikers who know the most about off road riding are doing the opposite thing.
4 года назад+3
Agreed! Never understood why someone would use a 650x50 over a 700x50. I think the bike industry should focus on bigger 700c tire clearance, not 650b. (Except for smaller sizes bikes)
Its lighter, stronger and quicker than 700c. There are also no 700x50 smooth tread pattern tires. They are all agro. So if you want a road plus tire 650b is still where its at.
@@PathLessPedaledTV 700x40-45 is already road plus if you look at what traditional roadies run anyway. There is little benefit in running even wider tyres if all that you're gonna ride is road. But 700c are still gonna roll faster and more efficiently than 650b, on road.
![Eminem - Fuel (Shady Edition) feat. Westside Boogie & GRIP [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1OquBida9s/mqdefault.jpg)
"I looked at him and I thought this one's not going to college" 😂
I did not think an interview on tyres could be this fun/funny. I've got some Cavas coming in, looking forward to them!
I love Ron's personality. The first 10 minutes alone makes me want a set just to support this guy.
So glad these guys are finally coming to their senses and producing some useable tires in the 700c size.
They also mentioned working on MTB tires with some dude of dangle bongz fame. Really want to know more about those tires...
Yeah, enuff with the 650 b stuff
nah, more of the 650b stuff!
Talking about mountain bikes and "post gravel", fantastic stuff! ATB bikes are the future
Thanks guys, you made my mix of Brompton and train ride this morning in the dense urban habitat of Amsterdam even more delightfull. I wish the train had also 650b.
Always thought of Ronnie as the “influencer” of the brand, but both are equally engaging storytellers and lovers of cycling, and your questions set them up for just that. Easy hour to zone to.
ALSO, I know the market isn’t exactly there but would love to see a 26” offering since I’m still slogging on my do-all, quiver-killer 26’er
@@emmitjohnstone1734I agree , I ride an 80's Specialized Stumpjumper
Yes! I think they have some? I also ride a 90s Diamondback Topanga just as Ron did.
The shat that was laid on suspension on gravel bikes there at the end was a moment ill love forever.
Simpler the better is the name of the game. Ill be buying a mullet set up soon as my next check clears that bank account.
Excellent. Interesting and entertaining as hell. Hope they continue to do well. Thanks Russ
One of the most fun
interviews came back 2 years later too watch it again
They look like amazing 650b tires.I completely agree that the bike industry has a huge disconnect between companies and real riders that speed a ton of time riding and using equipment. I personally have met a person that worked in the bike industry and had no background or experience. Then got into cycling as they started their job.
It’s funny that you mention the old XC tire, those 1.9 -2.1 tire where super light but felt like crap.
Really digging the Mapei banner.
I ordered a set of Rose Race when they first released last August. As a fan of Rene Herse the Ultradynamico seriously delivers. Gotta love Patrick's tricked out Open U.P. with Red AXS on the bike stand behind him.
Rene Herse or these ones?.
Great livestream...one of the best to get some straight-talking insider knowledge for nerds.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Paper still works man, i still use it. I really enjoyed this video, one of my frickin favourites, i love the bikes, love tires. I want to try 700x38s. My hutchison cobble tires were 38s and fine, but they flatted. I might get my 650b on this weekend. But i do have my first aero wheels coming with 25mm contis lol. Yikes! Thank you so much.
Speaking from the European/Irish perspective, I find that 700c with tyre thickness between 35-40mm is the perfect rubber setup for gravel/adventure cycling. +80٪ of the time, you're going to be riding on tarmac anyway, as rough dirt roads where suppler tyres could come in handy are quite hard to come by and they're usually private tractor access roads, which should not be trespassed. Thus 38mm should be supple enough in most European adventure scenarios, which in reality is rugged road riding / trekking over here rather that truly epic offroad exploration of remote wilderness.
It's what our grandmas used when riding to the store in the fifties, when half of the roads in the village weren't paved anyway. Single speed & uphill both ways.
@Russ you do a good job interviewing, letting the interviewee speak naturally unlike a bunch of interviews I've watched that feel forced like someone's got a checklist they're trying to run through
I saw these tires in our local bike shop and thought it looks really cool! It will definitely going to used in my dream gravel build!
It’s really awesome to know the guys behind this company.
This was an entertaining and informative live stream. You do a great job of keeping your guests on track. Ron's filter background was amusing for about 5 minutes, then it got annoying.
I've ridden 29ers since 2006. The changes in geo and rim widths has made there biggest difference IMHO. I tried 27.5+ on a MTB and hated it. I see why some riders like 650b for all road, but I don't see the benefit for wide open gravel and dirt roads like we have in Nebraska. With that said, our MTB trails here are very turny, and I've never had a problem with my 700c/29er. As well I'm 6'2", and I believe in having wheels proportional to the size of the rider. So I can see why a 5'6" rider would prefer 650b/27.5.
Rene Herse tires are amazing. It sounds like this company is using very similar casings, but adding a little tread. Good luck to them! More options is always good!
Filter background? He’s just in his country cottage.
Amazing presentation. Fascinating and entertaining. Good work, Russ!
Ignoring my usual rule of 'don't read the comments', it appears some people heard the stream, but weren't listening...
hahaha Jan Heine, the german god!
As a die hard 700c guy I'm excited about the 42s to come. I like to preorder a Riesling up front and Chianti in the back. Please.
These guys make a lot of good points here. Interesting chat.
I am a bit late to this party but hey what a podcast! This made me smile from ear to ear. Just how long and how much fun can you have discussing small batch tire design for a sub niche (650b) of a sub niche (gravel) of just one of many cycling disciplines?
More conversations like this one!!!!
This was great! Thank you Russ!
Just ordered a set of Rose’ from my LBS Liberty Bicycles in StCatharines Ontario Canada. 😊
This is awesome!
When are the 26" grey Mars tires coming??
As much as I love rim brakes, the cost associated with converting from disc to rim does not seem to make sense.
Bring on the 700c versions. I’m not buying anymore wheels.
Great interview/conversation! I think they missed the point about suspension on gravel bikes. It's not about fashion, or comfort, it's about traction and control. The suspension is there for the same reason they designed large volume supple tires: to keep the contact patch in contact. I don't personally want a gravel bike with suspension, but that doesn't mean it's a solution looking for a problem.
actually, sounds like it is.
Excellent!
Watch this last year, came back jff
Giant have tried really really hard to push 650 mountain bikes for about three or four years now. I think the market is slow to adopt because it's been told for the last ten years that 29 is the way to go 🤷♂️
Nation Harris this^
My preference is big 700c. I agree with Brendan from Otso/Wolftooth that the industry will move towards bikes that hold big 700c tires.
If you go wider handlebar and are running disc brakes ( *ducks from Benedict/Ronnie*) make sure you get a tandem bike brake cable because the width eats up a lot of the cable.
I don’t understand how wider tires require more cable. Cable mtbs have much wider tires and don’t need tandem cables.
@@PathLessPedaledTV my bad Russ, I updated my comment. I meant "wide handlebars". I am running Spank Flare 25s on my Slug, which is built for my geo so it's large, with Klampers and the standard road short pull cable (60" or so I think) was too short.
I think suspension would be a very different conversation if shocks were like tires, $50 things that take 15 minutes to replace. In that case, I would be open to the idea of a suspended gravel, or even road bike
Sidewall :)
Dont forget about a 700x50c for my Klunker!
i use rim tape on the rims that is all no tires
This was a seriously great conversation!
Fucking Ron with the chandelier in the back 😂😂😂😂
Nice looking tires, now if they’d come out with 700x38-40 so they can be used in gravel races. I’m currently using the Rene Herse Steilacoom.
How very post-roadie :)
Path Less Pedaled the Steilacoom’s did start a conversation with Ted King in his home town gravel race in New Hampshire last year, we were using the same tires and wheelset. Very friendly, enjoyed the talk and race, also enter another race in Vermont he was in, with again matching tires and wheels. Wouldn’t mind a little smaller knobs on a well made tire, but unfortunately racing in 650’s isn’t going to happen, tried both with my power meter and it’s just not as efficient. My 650 rim set is only used on my Open UP when I’m going through more 1 by stuff with my kids or if I want to take a few little jumps. I’ve gone through three sets on 700 tires while I’m still on my original 650 set with no need to change.
*Always comparing knob heights* huehuehuehue - laughing in british
I love my Bruce Gordon Rock N Road tyres on my Planet X Tempest Titanium gravel bike!
What surprised isn't how fast wider (non-smooth) tyres can be,
but the fact that although a quasi-49 year old beginner cyclist I managed to make it into the Strava Top Ten on some local road segments.
Top Ten that includes training-crazy fanatic ultra-triathletes & roadies.
I can't wait to try a wide slick, not Ultradynamico though, not available in Malta (Europe). Probably some Rene Herse version...any input please anyone?
You should join our Discord and ask there. discord.gg/M4hVyQ8
Really want to try a set of Cavas on my Midnight Special. Russ, have you tried any of the Ultradynamico tires?
I think I saw Rose’s on one of his bikes Bambora?
You guys should check out/ branch out to the mountain unicycle scene... lots of similar problems. Unfortunately the unicycle scene is trying to copy the big brand bicycle business and (unintentionally) copying all its duplicities/ pitfalls
Plus it needs a revamp of class, style, and ultraromance (and sexy tires)
150 psi boom
Rubber is Vegetal
I want try your tires.
Okay look. 650 is great but I think 700 is the way to go. Look at what is happening in the mountain bike world. 26" was the defacto standard for forever, then it went to 27.5, and now it is going to 29" (700c). Why? Because bigger wheels have 1) a larger contact patch with the ground which means more grip 2) a bigger diameter wheel will roll over rough stuff better without getting sucked into holes like a smaller wheel. Also, if you do a fair bit of paved riding a bigger wheel has better characteristics for long haul smooth riding--once you get it up to speed a bigger wheel has more inertia.
I just bought a salsa vaya and it can fit 700x50mm tires easily. That is plenty, I think, for pretty much any application. Why can't frame builders make 700c frames with much larger clearance and then we would have the best of both worlds. 650b made (and still makes) sense when you are dealing with a frame with limited clearance, however, this smaller wheel doesn't somehow have intrinsic comfort built into it. The only benefit of a smaller wheel is the ability to put bigger rubber into a frame that usually wouldn't be able to handle it. I'd rather have the efficiency of a 700 wheel with its larger contact patch in a frame that can handle a big tire, than a slightly plumper tire on a smaller wheel on a bike originally designed for 700x40mm tires or something.
I feel like I just shouted into the void so sorry if this didn't make sense. I just find it hilarious as a mountain biker to see gravel people going to smaller wheels and saying that you will have better offroad experiences when mountain bikers who know the most about off road riding are doing the opposite thing.
Agreed! Never understood why someone would use a 650x50 over a 700x50. I think the bike industry should focus on bigger 700c tire clearance, not 650b. (Except for smaller sizes bikes)
Just comes down to preference. It’s nice that everyone finds what works for them.
Its lighter, stronger and quicker than 700c. There are also no 700x50 smooth tread pattern tires. They are all agro. So if you want a road plus tire 650b is still where its at.
@@PathLessPedaledTV 700x40-45 is already road plus if you look at what traditional roadies run anyway. There is little benefit in running even wider tyres if all that you're gonna ride is road. But 700c are still gonna roll faster and more efficiently than 650b, on road.
Remember that your gearing ratios increase with the size of the wheel.
I have nightmares of adjusting cantilever rim brakes and untrue wheels...... Problems of buying used bikes.
No 700c aww man those tires look sweet
Hahhahahhahahhahhahahaaaaaa,..............jhahahhahhahahhahha!
I run 29x2.2