Correction: Darktable can correct exposure buy upto + 18 stops or - 18 stops😲 A secret handshake is required: right-click the slider and then simply enter the required number using the keyboard...
The sophistication is why I like Darktable. I'm still learning, because there are a ton of options, but I can edit pretty quickly with it already, and Darktable is not raping me or holding my property hostage for their fee.
Me too, lot's to learn, and its taken me a while, but I'm getting there, certainly the basics came fast, and it seems super powerful once I've learned.
I’ve used Lightroom since Apple dropped Aperture and I’ve disliked it the whole way. Dark table is far from perfect but for me as a pro photographer I can assure you it is a really powerful piece of software
I'm a big fan of darktable, hence the reason why I create tutorials for it. In my opinion, darktable might be a little bit slower, but it's masking techniques are unmatched.
Rico have you done any benchmark (in any way even just gut feeling) between performance on Windows vs Linux? I'm a Mac guy and I know Darktable (and RawTherapee, GIMP, DigiKam, and others) run much faster on Linux. I have 8 years old PC hardware that was a Hackintosh and I turned it into a play system with Linux on it. I still have Mac only apps that I may be able to run on my current Mac or a VM and through WINE (i.e. Photoshop, Affinity, Capture NX-D). I might consider moving to Linux down the road if I can get things running on Linux as apps like DT run great on it.
@@Being_Joe as a matter of fact, I'm looking to install a dual boot system on my computer to run darktable on Linux and see if there's a difference in performance. Darktable itself runs pretty fast but as soon as I record with OBS everything slows down
@@RicoResolves Last year I experimented a bit running DT, RT, and GIMP on my Mac on a Linux VM using VirtualBox. I was surprised the software actually ran faster on the Linux VM (running onto of MacOS) than it did running native on Mac OS. Linux Mint VM gave me the best results. There was some tweaking to be done where I could share files between my Mac and guest VM.
In relation to the speed of demosaicing, I just did a quick check of DT in Linux Mint - zooming in and moving the image as Pixovert did sees very much faster performance. I am on an i7 (8th gen, I think) laptop, with 16GB RAM. Regarding shadow detail recovery, I'd be curious as to how RawTherapee fared in this regard - I helped my daughter a while back with some of her images and thought RT did a fairly good job. Poor shadow performance in DT though is something other reviewers have commented on.
I know at least one professional who uses Adobe Photoshop 5 from the 90s. So I think it is more about what you are familiar with and how your workflow works for you. I use Darktable, Raw Therapee and Gimp and they all work well for me and I have never found myself wanting for much. I find Darktable is great for my personal workflow and I love the more advanced options it gives me. The vast majority of my editing is done in Darktable and I use GImp for things like composites and other more intensive stuff.
I think that you have a deep experience in Lightroom and have used Darktable for a week or so. All things you mention let see that you do not use Darktable as a long experience user. Exposure in Darktable goes further than Ligjhtroom. You cannot say that the way lightroom works it should be equal to Darktable. Anything in Lightroom is possible in Darktable, only the question is, wil you edit photo's like Adobe, or search you for a edit you have by yourself full contoll in the ecit.
@@ashupeetu GIMP is close to PS so it was pretty easy, Darktable has somewhat of a learning curve, but has better features and does a better job than LR, IMO. Check out Bruce Williams RUclips page for Darktable tutorial...it's pretty good at getting you started in Darktable.
Darktable was the final nail in not only Adobe's but also Microsoft's coffin lids.. I had long been frustrated with microsoft windows and the constant forced introduction of unwanted features and the creation of 3 new bugs for every one they fixed but I just could not live without photoshop and lightroom.. I tried Gimp and decided that although it did not have as much singing and dancing as Photoshop I could live with it, but I could not find an alternative to lightroom for my raw processing needs. Within a week of discovering darktable I reformatted my computer ditching microsoft and adobe in favour of Ubuntu, Darktable and Gimp. They do everything I need of my computer, and of all the software I use I have only had to buy one (zerenestacker) everything else is free. And of course, no virus scanners, no anti-spyware, no clogging up the computer with malware because Linux takes security seriously unlike mickeysoft. Open Source for the win
Kevin, just wanted to point out that DT can apply more stops of exposure ...the sliders only go to 3 but if you right click and open the whisker drag there is also the option to enter a value and you can enter values larger than 3 ...I think at least 6 and as for noise reduction...its likely not as strait forward as there are many ways to do it but it is very powerful when you spend the time to learn it and tweak it and then you can save the preset to make it easy...This is an excellent collection of resources...tomassobekphotography.co.nz/articles/reducing-noise-in-Darktable.php but users should get the idea that there is a lot of hidden power in DT you just need to watch some videos and read the manual...Lightroom I am sure many will find more intuitive but DT is loaded with features perhaps its downfall is that there are too many and so its not always obvious how to achieve things but when you master it...you will be rewarded...Bruce Williams has an excellent series on RUclips and it will get you up and running and well versed in no time....
There seems to be initially more noise in DT than lightroom for the same RAW file. This may be a demosaicing thing. Occassionaly DT is superior to Lightroom, but for the most part I found the superior demosaic produced the best final result pretty much regardless of methods used in noise reduction. DT seems to like some cameras more than others in this regard and I thought this was the key to deciding on the better software for a particular edit.
@@Pixovert If you use AMAZE with additional color smoothing you'll get a lot less noise. The default demosaic is fast but not very good. The demosaic step is arguably the most important step of all, and you gloss over it very quickly in this video, not giving it nearly the attention it needs.
Good God.. can someone explain why the dark picture looks absolutely *horrible* in Darktable compared to Lightroom? Is that just the wrong settings being applied or can't the software handle those type of things?
exactly, the learning is just about taking time and creating your own presets for darktable, LUTs etc, people are just automatically fearful of jumping to something else and putting focused time in despite having done so with lightroom both in the past and with new features, DT is written for photographers by photographers for professional grade images, anything else is an adobe perspective to keep you tethered to their overbloated and expensive eco system!
Yeah I am pretty proficient in DT, and just started using LR... I have to say LR feels like it holds your hand more, and at the same time feels like it hides a lot of what it’s doing. I may go back to DT yet.
@@NigelSwan Its good to see a view from this perspective. I don't doubt that learning Lightroom is easier for many users and can't judge the program. But I want to bring attention to the fact that many are learning Lightroom first and using it for years (just like Windows and then switching to Linux). This will amplify the difficulty learning a new tool the more you are used to use the old one. Because once you learned something, its hard to justify learning a new tool that does the same/similar job. This is true fro every user and tool in general.
@@thingsiplay I hojnestly think I'll be staying in Windows and using Lightroom, the main reason being processing (loading) time. things like denoise there is a delay while it it 'working', whereas Lightroom just does adjustments near instantly. I had hoped darktable would be simlar on my new Ryzen 3600 and 5700XT build but it lags behind LR for processing time. Which does somewhat frustrate me, as I have to re-learn how to get things how I like them to look now haha. I know I'm an odd one, most people go the other way but for processing time I have to be practical. I do prefer Rapid-Photo-Downloader and Geeqie for importing from camera card and culling though, Photo Mechanic is OK but it's not as amazing as it seems it was made out to be, especially for "ingesting". RPD shows thumbnails before import and can allocate differnt images to diffferent folders/names etc all in the one download action. But it's Linux only. SO will likely import and cull on my laptop, then ingst from folder to my desktop once home from event and process from there. maybe. It's a work in progress as I try and streamline my workflow.
@@NigelSwan you probably did this, but just in case: make sure that openCL runs properly, meaning the right drivers are installed and set up for your graphics card, and also that darktable does make use of it. this can make DT many times faster on certain operations, this makes a huge difference.
It may be a bias that You simply know lightroom better but darktable really has no problem with shadows if You let it do the job. It has several noise-reduction modules specialised in different situations like astrophotography or general-use profiled which handles chroma noise well so raising shadows doesn't need to introduce noise problems. Especially now in 2022 where scene-referred workflow was introduced it gives great control over tones. In 2019 it also was not a problem. Darktable just not provide a simple starting point out of the box - You need to engage things for yourself with no autopilot and You need to invest time in exploring what's worth using in Your images. Lightroom is already pretty much baked and ready to use straight out of the box.
Darktable far better than lightroom when using it right. I won't ever go back to adobe for anything! its Free, Adobe is pretty much draining you of your energy and wallet! sorry but the idea that lightroom is for pros compared to DT, nope sorry! I can agree lightroom might be slightly easier to start with, but other than that, you can use it and license is not an issue for any level of photographer! Many professionals are jumping ship because of adobes licensing and pricing structure to a web-based, if you get caught out in the field with no internet and no license and your subscription doesn't get renewed you are shit outta luck to edit!
Darktable has also improved since this video. For example you have a slider to move across the photo for before and after, I think the noise reduction is better and the UI has been redesigned. Saying that Lightroom is simple to use is a little misleading because it means there are less options which makes Darktable very powerful. There are some modules in Darktable now that combine various functions making editing a bit easier.
@@ryanstark2350 i absolutely agree, it isnt that i believe lightroom is easier or better, its that the industry and perception is one of easier and better to the lay person, or even professionals moving across from lightroom or another, Darktable like most open source can often seem daunting and overly complex to those whom are targeted by adobe and apple. It's the old analogy that those ingrained in proprietary or even more level headed lay people believe the hype by the likes of apple, adobe etc in this myth of power and simplicity that open source is not, so they win on marketing, but no evidence to back it up, but still these myths perpetuate anyway, brand makes people believe what is not substantial.
@@GaryParris I was more referring to the video than what you said because it's true that Lightroom is probably simpler at first. However, I'm working in Darktable right now and what could be quicker than the Basic Adjustments module to get things near right quickly. It even has an auto button that does a decent job most of the time assuming your photo isn't a disaster.
I think Adobe have lost top position with three programs now. Inkscape is better than Illustrator. You have Davinci Resolve for video editing so Premiere is not needed. I use Lightworks which is a very efficient editor. I do actually think Darktable is better than Lightroom. Gimp is not better than Photoshop but I use it. It has some very useful features. Some of which Photoshop doesn't have. Leaving aside Lightworks which isn't free, that's a lot of money once you start renting several Adobe programs.
@@ryanstark2350 yeah absolutely and yes i agree with you on those things, GMIP i will use as my photoshop replacement now and find it just as useful and good, it may not have some of the AI components to help it along, but who know with time and still usueable for any task that photoshop is capable of, just a change of workflow, but yes my main go to software now is Inkscape, Blender, GIMP, Darktable, Audacity, various linux video solutions on Fedora Linux, and all open source feels great to not worry about licensing or tied to corporate and business industry fakeness. There is nothing you cannot acheive with open source, and if people believe otherwise then they are not only fooling themselves but they are simply lazy thinkers and not good enough! It's no longer the open source tools which are limiting you!
Thanks for the review! Lots of interesting information. But there are also a couple of questions. 1. Demosaic. There are a lot of different methods in Dark Table, some for quick review and processing and others for final development. How does demosaic switch the Lightroom method? In Dark Table, you have to select this with your hands. A problem for those who don't want to go into detail and want quick results. If you don't want to go into the details of how a digital image is created, the operation of the sensor, the colour space and other important details, then Dark Table is best avoided. But if you do want to...
Very useful comparison. If I understand it correctly, I would summarise it as LightRoom is for photographers using a computer and DarkTable is for computer nerds using a camera (that's me). Also, cost-wise, LightRoom is for professionals who will use it constantly and make money from their efforts, DarkTable is for amateurs who will use it sporadically and never make any money from using it (that's me again).
Shaikailash now that I actually have my new PC built and windows in it so i can run both, I actually find Lightroom a little frustrating. Probably because I don’t feel like I have to do enough with the image, because it applies a base “treatment” to the image (like jpeg styles in your camera). It means that it’s easy to churn out a batch of acceptable looking images, but after using darktable for over a year I’d happily use it again now after comparing the 2. You do have to use more modules in darktable to get the image how you want, because it applies less in the background to the raw image. Adobe annoys me here, as I kinda like seeing the raw but they obfuscate that away. Either one works on a powerful machine, so which ever one you’re comfortable with. pixls.us forum is great for FOSS photography software. I am struggling not having Rapid Photo Downloader, I prefer it to Photo Mechanics Ingest function. The batch import and cull is probably where I still have to work on my Windows workflow. I’d go back to Linux but my wife needs some windows software for work and uses my PC, so meh. 🤷🏻♂️
Thank you for a balanced review. My impression is that with Darktable as well as other free-libre (open source) projects, you are not a customer - you are part of a community. If you don't like something you are usually encouraged to come up with a solution for everyone's benefit. If others like your solution, it will be adopted. And if not, you have always the last resort option - to fork the project and do it your way.
There's another option, try doing it another way which the community or devs suggest doing it, and it may just prove to better regardless, many people stop thinking about how to if it doesn't work the way companies lie Adobe do it, but it's not always the best way, sometimes people just need to change the way they do something o understand why.
various ways to do it, look for it in many of the main DT users on youtube giving Tutes, you may be using pre 2.6 to compare against lightroom for shadows
i have been working with dt, i am wondering if when working with exposure because of the 3 stop limit one could just duplicate the image and correct the exposure again ? thank you
this doesn't seem to cut it. The exposure doesn't seem to stretch on the second edit - this video shows the kind of results we get watch?v=RAb85TukSuc The DT file seems under exposed even with the second edit. I think what DT wants is that the exposure correction panel is duplicated and applied twice on the original file. This might produce a result.
@@Pixovert There is no 3 stop limit....the sliders just do 3...you can manually enter much greater numbers...right click on the exposure slider...also base curve fusion of up to 3 images can greatly improve low light images...try it out....
Cosmo try base curve fusion...also you can add many stops of exposure just not with the slider...right click on the exposure slider and enter a number greater than 3 ...you will see there is not a limit to 3 however you might also want to use a parametric mask if you are adding tonnes of exposure to protect some areas of your image...
As a follow-up note when you right click and add say 6 or 7 stops ...the slider now shows that as the top value and you can now slide to pick the exposure you want....
@@AXIOMGRAPH it's far more interesting to use and work with open source too, the community is so much more open about what they are trying to do and achieve for all not just selfish gain
@@GaryParris I think open source need more developers. Think about blender. When I started using there was lack of good Tut's. But today everything changed its improved and pro's using it. If we want to happen same thing with gimp we need more developers. Gimp lacks of professional tools like adjustment layers. Now coming to the point dark table. It already has more tools than lightroom. Only users are less. It will change over time.
@@AXIOMGRAPH indeed I contribute to the blender funding for devs and am using blender and tutes and watch the live streams, so I know exactly what you mean, it doesn't have to be as successful as blender in its Dev but it would good of course
That answers it i cutting the adobe cord!. I like details!! I don’t want the software assuming and editing for me. The “presets” starting point In darkroom are are adjustable not sure about light room so i can easily do auto adjust my way. IMO i think adobe once was the king of the hill mainly from lack of choices. And feel the former king has gotten a bit fat and soft.
Lightroom was the only thing keeping me from completely switching from Windows to Linux. Having found Darktable and seeing how well it works, it is good-bye Windows.
One question: is there color calibration target support in Darktable? Or at least are DCP profiles supported? Answer is NO. Lightroom is, of course, completely adjustable. Only reason I quit the Creative Suite (with the exception I never used both Premiere or AfterEffects in video production because the standard always was and still is Media Composer - and Vegas in news and documentaries) was their licensing model. But feature wise, in DTP and graphic design it is the standard and it is not easily replaceable - maybe with some programs from Corel (but still the same licensing model). To be fair, only a few graphic programs are supporting 10bit colors at the moment (from the free software it is only Krita). Support for calibration targets is also far more problematic I think before, but at least there are workarounds using 16bit TIFFs if DCP or at least ICC camera profiles are supported. Direct support is scarce. In video world, it is interesting that totally free pro grade VIDEO editor (Blackmagic Davinci Resolve) has not only 10bit color support but is also supporting not only VIDEO calibration targets but PHOTO targets also!!! What is even better, it is possible to make LUTs from target shots in Resolve and using them for color correction even if the software is not supporting DCP/ICC camera profiles or calibration targets directly. RawTherapee has DCP/ICC camera profile support. Better than Darktable's no support. But still no 10bit color support.
LightZone is my favorite, simple, easy to use and hyper powerful with its color selection, colour range, zone system, blending mode and so easy to work with, as you have only to learn 2 tabs which are the Tool Setting and the Color Selection, then you have understood how work ALL the tools.
I would have liked to see LR vs DT vs RT vs AP comparison. Anyway, when I think of LR or PS, one thing comes in mind: ACR, the basic API behind PS and LR, and I personally prefer ACR over all. Adobe's tools are more proficient, more intuitive, in my experience. I move faster with them.
I prefer RT over DT as I enjoy portrait photography. I agree I get better skin tones with RT. I will say DT is a lot more user friendly when you first jump in but I have found I get better results from RT. RT is complex but I feel it is worth learning.
Bjarne Winkler Well, comparing the reference amongst commercial packages (Adobe LR) vs the reference amongst free packages (Darktable) makes more sense
Luminar is a commercial packages, but maybe not one that you have heard about even if it has been around for years and is used, per Skylum, by a lot of users. So this would be similar to comparing LR to Darktable, it would just be Luminar vs Darktable
I've had Luminar for months. If I do too many corrections, it refuses to export the file and locks up my PC. I don't even attempt to use it anymore, which is a shame. It has some good features.
Knowing you also use GIMP, I have a question. Since Darktable can be used to open RAW files in GIMP, do you have any thoughts on which program performs certain edits better? I'm newer to both and will be experimenting but just curious if you have any experience comparing results. Thanks for this video; glad to know and can still get solid results without Lightroom.
I am a long time Darktable user and hardly ever need to open up GIMP. 99% of my landscape work is done in Darktable alone. I use GIMP only in cases when I need to do lots of precise cloning or re-synthesize large areas.
@@TomasSobeksame here, but I am able to clone and heal with the retouch module and almost never need to go outside darktable unless I need to use layers for things like composites.
my darketable doesn't have the BOOK and neither WEB I run the 2.6.6 for mac !!! personally it looks much more complicated and as you said pro photographers don't like spend hours editing pictures !!!!
Raw images retain more information. You can recover more highlight and shadows than from a JPG file. Also, you have much more accuracy on every color channel so if you push the picture far in post processing you start seeing things like posterization in JPG files but not in raws. Also, your camera might apply things like too heavy noise reduction or other processing which you'll have to live with, like it or not.
In addition to what Fingers said; Raw files exist BECAUSE of editing programs, like Photoshop, Affinity Photo, Darktable, etc. Think of a raw file as a raw steak. You have to season it, cook it, and prepare it before it is ready to be consumed. The higher quality of the steak (getting the shot right in-camera), the better the meal (final product) will be. Now, you can still do all those things to a jpeg, but a jpeg is more like the pre-cooked gourmet sausages; seasoned and cooked, ready to go, but if you want to get creative, you can still butterfly those bad boys, cook them up in a skillet, add a sauce, some pasta, stir-fry some veggies in with it, and BAM! dinner is served.
If you just shoot snaps then use a JPG, the camera will make most of the developing choices for you and create a small JPG file which you can upload to faceache right away and it will dump all the extra unused data in the bin.. Job done If you are a photographer then you will want to take control of that developing workflow so you can fine tune and sculpt the results yourself, then you shoot raw and have all of the original data that your camera captures to work with, you pick which of the data you want to use to create your photo and then export a JPG for uploading to the web or whatever.. The original RAW image cannot be altered or edited, it ALWAYS contains all of the original data and is processed non destructively so you can come back to it later and re-develop it to create a completely different look should you choose, and that happens more often than you might think as software improves ;)
As a friend said comparing Photography to Pottery - a RAW image is like raw clay you have more freedom in editing it, however once you baked it your choices are reduced significantly similar to a JPEG image
Perspective photoshop and gimp are more for image editing rather than processing. Lightroom/Darktable allow you to easily tweak images and alter them, photoshop/gimp are more for manipulation e.g. adding in fake object into the image
As someone who is SERIOUSLY considering cutting the Adobe cord, a few things are worthy of consideration: Adobe has the inter app interaction down. Getting photos organized in LR, doing simple edits and then going over to PS is as easy as a right click. The mobile platform, available on all mobile devices, makes editing on site and on the fly a snap. LR mobile even includes a camera on iPhone. And it does fairly well. I can share photos directly from my phone after editing in LR. Then I can view them on my Apple TV with family and friends via the ATV app. I can access my library from any computer, anywhere, via their internet portal and edit away. I don’t see any alternative to this. Believe me- I’m looking.
Lightroom... 120 per year.. per year.. so in 10 years? 1200 bucks. Darkroom will only cost you the time to learn it, and YT is filled with videos to do just that. Also free. I'll take the time to learn it and have money for travel trips to shoot. Sometimes, people need to get over "brand name itis"!
![[Darktable] Basics: Developing a photo from start to finish & filmic rgb](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SiWBZ3FOMo8/mqdefault.jpg)
Correction: Darktable can correct exposure buy upto + 18 stops or - 18 stops😲 A secret handshake is required: right-click the slider and then simply enter the required number using the keyboard...
I wasn't aware of this trick. However you can always duplicate a module - so add another Exposure +/- 3 stops (or 18 stops with the trick above).
Thanks. For a moment I felt you were subtly downplaying Darktable.
The sophistication is why I like Darktable. I'm still learning, because there are a ton of options, but I can edit pretty quickly with it already, and Darktable is not raping me or holding my property hostage for their fee.
Me too, lot's to learn, and its taken me a while, but I'm getting there, certainly the basics came fast, and it seems super powerful once I've learned.
I’ve used Lightroom since Apple dropped Aperture and I’ve disliked it the whole way.
Dark table is far from perfect but for me as a pro photographer I can assure you it is a really powerful piece of software
I'm a big fan of darktable, hence the reason why I create tutorials for it. In my opinion, darktable might be a little bit slower, but it's masking techniques are unmatched.
Rico have you done any benchmark (in any way even just gut feeling) between performance on Windows vs Linux? I'm a Mac guy and I know Darktable (and RawTherapee, GIMP, DigiKam, and others) run much faster on Linux. I have 8 years old PC hardware that was a Hackintosh and I turned it into a play system with Linux on it. I still have Mac only apps that I may be able to run on my current Mac or a VM and through WINE (i.e. Photoshop, Affinity, Capture NX-D). I might consider moving to Linux down the road if I can get things running on Linux as apps like DT run great on it.
@@Being_Joe as a matter of fact, I'm looking to install a dual boot system on my computer to run darktable on Linux and see if there's a difference in performance. Darktable itself runs pretty fast but as soon as I record with OBS everything slows down
@@RicoResolves Last year I experimented a bit running DT, RT, and GIMP on my Mac on a Linux VM using VirtualBox. I was surprised the software actually ran faster on the Linux VM (running onto of MacOS) than it did running native on Mac OS. Linux Mint VM gave me the best results. There was some tweaking to be done where I could share files between my Mac and guest VM.
In relation to the speed of demosaicing, I just did a quick check of DT in Linux Mint - zooming in and moving the image as Pixovert did sees very much faster performance. I am on an i7 (8th gen, I think) laptop, with 16GB RAM. Regarding shadow detail recovery, I'd be curious as to how RawTherapee fared in this regard - I helped my daughter a while back with some of her images and thought RT did a fairly good job. Poor shadow performance in DT though is something other reviewers have commented on.
I know at least one professional who uses Adobe Photoshop 5 from the 90s. So I think it is more about what you are familiar with and how your workflow works for you. I use Darktable, Raw Therapee and Gimp and they all work well for me and I have never found myself wanting for much. I find Darktable is great for my personal workflow and I love the more advanced options it gives me. The vast majority of my editing is done in Darktable and I use GImp for things like composites and other more intensive stuff.
I think that you have a deep experience in Lightroom and have used Darktable for a week or so. All things you mention let see that you do not use Darktable as a long experience user. Exposure in Darktable goes further than Ligjhtroom. You cannot say that the way lightroom works it should be equal to Darktable. Anything in Lightroom is possible in Darktable, only the question is, wil you edit photo's like Adobe, or search you for a edit you have by yourself full contoll in the ecit.
Dumped all Adobe software when they started " renting" them. Use Gimp and Darktable. Both are awesome and FREE!
How was the learning curve? Tried once but left after few days.
@@ashupeetu GIMP is close to PS so it was pretty easy, Darktable has somewhat of a learning curve, but has better features and does a better job than LR, IMO. Check out Bruce Williams RUclips page for Darktable tutorial...it's pretty good at getting you started in Darktable.
Darktable was the final nail in not only Adobe's but also Microsoft's coffin lids..
I had long been frustrated with microsoft windows and the constant forced introduction of unwanted features and the creation of 3 new bugs for every one they fixed but I just could not live without photoshop and lightroom..
I tried Gimp and decided that although it did not have as much singing and dancing as Photoshop I could live with it, but I could not find an alternative to lightroom for my raw processing needs.
Within a week of discovering darktable I reformatted my computer ditching microsoft and adobe in favour of Ubuntu, Darktable and Gimp. They do everything I need of my computer, and of all the software I use I have only had to buy one (zerenestacker) everything else is free.
And of course, no virus scanners, no anti-spyware, no clogging up the computer with malware because Linux takes security seriously unlike mickeysoft.
Open Source for the win
Gimp os nice, unless you print things.
Sadly no CMYK support
@@eryen9503 layers coming in the rewrite so PS users will have no more excuses to ignore GIMP
Your audio is very very good!
Kevin, just wanted to point out that DT can apply more stops of exposure ...the sliders only go to 3 but if you right click and open the whisker drag there is also the option to enter a value and you can enter values larger than 3 ...I think at least 6 and as for noise reduction...its likely not as strait forward as there are many ways to do it but it is very powerful when you spend the time to learn it and tweak it and then you can save the preset to make it easy...This is an excellent collection of resources...tomassobekphotography.co.nz/articles/reducing-noise-in-Darktable.php but users should get the idea that there is a lot of hidden power in DT you just need to watch some videos and read the manual...Lightroom I am sure many will find more intuitive but DT is loaded with features perhaps its downfall is that there are too many and so its not always obvious how to achieve things but when you master it...you will be rewarded...Bruce Williams has an excellent series on RUclips and it will get you up and running and well versed in no time....
There seems to be initially more noise in DT than lightroom for the same RAW file. This may be a demosaicing thing. Occassionaly DT is superior to Lightroom, but for the most part I found the superior demosaic produced the best final result pretty much regardless of methods used in noise reduction. DT seems to like some cameras more than others in this regard and I thought this was the key to deciding on the better software for a particular edit.
@@Pixovert If you use AMAZE with additional color smoothing you'll get a lot less noise. The default demosaic is fast but not very good. The demosaic step is arguably the most important step of all, and you gloss over it very quickly in this video, not giving it nearly the attention it needs.
Good God.. can someone explain why the dark picture looks absolutely *horrible* in Darktable compared to Lightroom? Is that just the wrong settings being applied or can't the software handle those type of things?
You have much more and longer experience with Lightroom, thats why Darktable looks like more to learn in your view.
exactly, the learning is just about taking time and creating your own presets for darktable, LUTs etc, people are just automatically fearful of jumping to something else and putting focused time in despite having done so with lightroom both in the past and with new features, DT is written for photographers by photographers for professional grade images, anything else is an adobe perspective to keep you tethered to their overbloated and expensive eco system!
Yeah I am pretty proficient in DT, and just started using LR... I have to say LR feels like it holds your hand more, and at the same time feels like it hides a lot of what it’s doing. I may go back to DT yet.
@@NigelSwan Its good to see a view from this perspective.
I don't doubt that learning Lightroom is easier for many users and can't judge the program. But I want to bring attention to the fact that many are learning Lightroom first and using it for years (just like Windows and then switching to Linux). This will amplify the difficulty learning a new tool the more you are used to use the old one.
Because once you learned something, its hard to justify learning a new tool that does the same/similar job. This is true fro every user and tool in general.
@@thingsiplay I hojnestly think I'll be staying in Windows and using Lightroom, the main reason being processing (loading) time. things like denoise there is a delay while it it 'working', whereas Lightroom just does adjustments near instantly. I had hoped darktable would be simlar on my new Ryzen 3600 and 5700XT build but it lags behind LR for processing time.
Which does somewhat frustrate me, as I have to re-learn how to get things how I like them to look now haha. I know I'm an odd one, most people go the other way but for processing time I have to be practical.
I do prefer Rapid-Photo-Downloader and Geeqie for importing from camera card and culling though, Photo Mechanic is OK but it's not as amazing as it seems it was made out to be, especially for "ingesting". RPD shows thumbnails before import and can allocate differnt images to diffferent folders/names etc all in the one download action. But it's Linux only. SO will likely import and cull on my laptop, then ingst from folder to my desktop once home from event and process from there. maybe. It's a work in progress as I try and streamline my workflow.
@@NigelSwan you probably did this, but just in case: make sure that openCL runs properly, meaning the right drivers are installed and set up for your graphics card, and also that darktable does make use of it. this can make DT many times faster on certain operations, this makes a huge difference.
It may be a bias that You simply know lightroom better but darktable really has no problem with shadows if You let it do the job. It has several noise-reduction modules specialised in different situations like astrophotography or general-use profiled which handles chroma noise well so raising shadows doesn't need to introduce noise problems. Especially now in 2022 where scene-referred workflow was introduced it gives great control over tones. In 2019 it also was not a problem. Darktable just not provide a simple starting point out of the box - You need to engage things for yourself with no autopilot and You need to invest time in exploring what's worth using in Your images. Lightroom is already pretty much baked and ready to use straight out of the box.
So one tool mostly does it for you, one YOU drive yourself. Not sure I trust "auto pilot".
Darktable far better than lightroom when using it right. I won't ever go back to adobe for anything! its Free, Adobe is pretty much draining you of your energy and wallet! sorry but the idea that lightroom is for pros compared to DT, nope sorry!
I can agree lightroom might be slightly easier to start with, but other than that, you can use it and license is not an issue for any level of photographer! Many professionals are jumping ship because of adobes licensing and pricing structure to a web-based, if you get caught out in the field with no internet and no license and your subscription doesn't get renewed you are shit outta luck to edit!
Darktable has also improved since this video. For example you have a slider to move across the photo for before and after, I think the noise reduction is better and the UI has been redesigned. Saying that Lightroom is simple to use is a little misleading because it means there are less options which makes Darktable very powerful. There are some modules in Darktable now that combine various functions making editing a bit easier.
@@ryanstark2350 i absolutely agree, it isnt that i believe lightroom is easier or better, its that the industry and perception is one of easier and better to the lay person, or even professionals moving across from lightroom or another, Darktable like most open source can often seem daunting and overly complex to those whom are targeted by adobe and apple.
It's the old analogy that those ingrained in proprietary or even more level headed lay people believe the hype by the likes of apple, adobe etc in this myth of power and simplicity that open source is not, so they win on marketing, but no evidence to back it up, but still these myths perpetuate anyway, brand makes people believe what is not substantial.
@@GaryParris I was more referring to the video than what you said because it's true that Lightroom is probably simpler at first. However, I'm working in Darktable right now and what could be quicker than the Basic Adjustments module to get things near right quickly. It even has an auto button that does a decent job most of the time assuming your photo isn't a disaster.
I think Adobe have lost top position with three programs now. Inkscape is better than Illustrator. You have Davinci Resolve for video editing so Premiere is not needed. I use Lightworks which is a very efficient editor. I do actually think Darktable is better than Lightroom. Gimp is not better than Photoshop but I use it. It has some very useful features. Some of which Photoshop doesn't have. Leaving aside Lightworks which isn't free, that's a lot of money once you start renting several Adobe programs.
@@ryanstark2350 yeah absolutely and yes i agree with you on those things, GMIP i will use as my photoshop replacement now and find it just as useful and good, it may not have some of the AI components to help it along, but who know with time and still usueable for any task that photoshop is capable of, just a change of workflow, but yes my main go to software now is Inkscape, Blender, GIMP, Darktable, Audacity, various linux video solutions on Fedora Linux, and all open source feels great to not worry about licensing or tied to corporate and business industry fakeness.
There is nothing you cannot acheive with open source, and if people believe otherwise then they are not only fooling themselves but they are simply lazy thinkers and not good enough! It's no longer the open source tools which are limiting you!
Thanks for the review! Lots of interesting information. But there are also a couple of questions.
1. Demosaic. There are a lot of different methods in Dark Table, some for quick review and processing and others for final development. How does demosaic switch the Lightroom method? In Dark Table, you have to select this with your hands. A problem for those who don't want to go into detail and want quick results.
If you don't want to go into the details of how a digital image is created, the operation of the sensor, the colour space and other important details, then Dark Table is best avoided. But if you do want to...
Darktable all the way
Very useful comparison. If I understand it correctly, I would summarise it as LightRoom is for photographers using a computer and DarkTable is for computer nerds using a camera (that's me). Also, cost-wise, LightRoom is for professionals who will use it constantly and make money from their efforts, DarkTable is for amateurs who will use it sporadically and never make any money from using it (that's me again).
That’s where I sit, geek by heart so darktable was a natural fit. Also Geeqie as I take approx 5000 images at a sports event and get down to
Why is your processing in DT slower? Just curious, as I'm deciding on which software to invest
Shaikailash now that I actually have my new PC built and windows in it so i can run both, I actually find Lightroom a little frustrating. Probably because I don’t feel like I have to do enough with the image, because it applies a base “treatment” to the image (like jpeg styles in your camera). It means that it’s easy to churn out a batch of acceptable looking images, but after using darktable for over a year I’d happily use it again now after comparing the 2.
You do have to use more modules in darktable to get the image how you want, because it applies less in the background to the raw image. Adobe annoys me here, as I kinda like seeing the raw but they obfuscate that away.
Either one works on a powerful machine, so which ever one you’re comfortable with. pixls.us forum is great for FOSS photography software.
I am struggling not having Rapid Photo Downloader, I prefer it to Photo Mechanics Ingest function. The batch import and cull is probably where I still have to work on my Windows workflow. I’d go back to Linux but my wife needs some windows software for work and uses my PC, so meh. 🤷🏻♂️
Thank you for a balanced review. My impression is that with Darktable as well as other free-libre (open source) projects, you are not a customer - you are part of a community. If you don't like something you are usually encouraged to come up with a solution for everyone's benefit. If others like your solution, it will be adopted. And if not, you have always the last resort option - to fork the project and do it your way.
There's another option, try doing it another way which the community or devs suggest doing it, and it may just prove to better regardless, many people stop thinking about how to if it doesn't work the way companies lie Adobe do it, but it's not always the best way, sometimes people just need to change the way they do something o understand why.
Anyone got something to say regarding the shadow recovery? Surely there are tricks to get about the same results as in Lightroom?
various ways to do it, look for it in many of the main DT users on youtube giving Tutes, you may be using pre 2.6 to compare against lightroom for shadows
I think it would be interesting to see what types of cameras and their features worked best with each software.
05:56 "auto" added a few years, IMHO
Runs on LINUX! Enough Said!
That's the problem; it's geared towards Linux and written with GTK. Hence the performance issues.
@@msandersen Well it works and It is free lol Enough Said! Buy an RTX and Latest Ryzen .
Darktable also supports tethering with legacy cameras like the EOS 20D
Can't believe I haven't seen this!
Thanks for the video. Interesting comparative.
Great review even for being a couple years old. Haven't used Darktable yet but curious about it.
i have been working with dt, i am wondering if when working with exposure because of the 3 stop limit one could just duplicate the image and correct the exposure again ? thank you
this doesn't seem to cut it. The exposure doesn't seem to stretch on the second edit - this video shows the kind of results we get
watch?v=RAb85TukSuc
The DT file seems under exposed even with the second edit.
I think what DT wants is that the exposure correction panel is duplicated and applied twice on the original file. This might produce a result.
@@Pixovert There is no 3 stop limit....the sliders just do 3...you can manually enter much greater numbers...right click on the exposure slider...also base curve fusion of up to 3 images can greatly improve low light images...try it out....
Cosmo try base curve fusion...also you can add many stops of exposure just not with the slider...right click on the exposure slider and enter a number greater than 3 ...you will see there is not a limit to 3 however you might also want to use a parametric mask if you are adding tonnes of exposure to protect some areas of your image...
As a follow-up note when you right click and add say 6 or 7 stops ...the slider now shows that as the top value and you can now slide to pick the exposure you want....
@@emrg777 thank you
Very good rewiev. Thank you!
Time comes when darktable going to overtake lightroom
already is starting! and im glad if it kills lightroom off in the end!
@@GaryParris yep more people started using it.
@@AXIOMGRAPH it's far more interesting to use and work with open source too, the community is so much more open about what they are trying to do and achieve for all not just selfish gain
@@GaryParris I think open source need more developers. Think about blender. When I started using there was lack of good Tut's. But today everything changed its improved and pro's using it. If we want to happen same thing with gimp we need more developers. Gimp lacks of professional tools like adjustment layers. Now coming to the point dark table. It already has more tools than lightroom. Only users are less. It will change over time.
@@AXIOMGRAPH indeed I contribute to the blender funding for devs and am using blender and tutes and watch the live streams, so I know exactly what you mean, it doesn't have to be as successful as blender in its Dev but it would good of course
Would love to hear your views on these two relative to Rawtherapee.
That answers it i cutting the adobe cord!. I like details!! I don’t want the software assuming and editing for me. The “presets” starting point In darkroom are are adjustable not sure about light room so i can easily do auto adjust my way. IMO i think adobe once was the king of the hill mainly from lack of choices. And feel the former king has gotten a bit fat and soft.
Lightroom was the only thing keeping me from completely switching from Windows to Linux. Having found Darktable and seeing how well it works, it is good-bye Windows.
One question: is there color calibration target support in Darktable? Or at least are DCP profiles supported?
Answer is NO.
Lightroom is, of course, completely adjustable. Only reason I quit the Creative Suite (with the exception I never used both Premiere or AfterEffects in video production because the standard always was and still is Media Composer - and Vegas in news and documentaries) was their licensing model. But feature wise, in DTP and graphic design it is the standard and it is not easily replaceable - maybe with some programs from Corel (but still the same licensing model).
To be fair, only a few graphic programs are supporting 10bit colors at the moment (from the free software it is only Krita). Support for calibration targets is also far more problematic I think before, but at least there are workarounds using 16bit TIFFs if DCP or at least ICC camera profiles are supported. Direct support is scarce.
In video world, it is interesting that totally free pro grade VIDEO editor (Blackmagic Davinci Resolve) has not only 10bit color support but is also supporting not only VIDEO calibration targets but PHOTO targets also!!! What is even better, it is possible to make LUTs from target shots in Resolve and using them for color correction even if the software is not supporting DCP/ICC camera profiles or calibration targets directly.
RawTherapee has DCP/ICC camera profile support. Better than Darktable's no support. But still no 10bit color support.
There are masks in LR ( colour or brigtness) You can use them locally or globaly..
LightZone is my favorite, simple, easy to use and hyper powerful with its color selection, colour range, zone system, blending mode and so easy to work with, as you have only to learn 2 tabs which are the Tool Setting and the Color Selection, then you have understood how work ALL the tools.
I would have liked to see LR vs DT vs RT vs AP comparison. Anyway, when I think of LR or PS, one thing comes in mind: ACR, the basic API behind PS and LR, and I personally prefer ACR over all. Adobe's tools are more proficient, more intuitive, in my experience. I move faster with them.
have u seen rawtherapee? i just downloaded it i have heard it does a better job with skin the dt ?
I prefer RT over DT as I enjoy portrait photography. I agree I get better skin tones with RT. I will say DT is a lot more user friendly when you first jump in but I have found I get better results from RT. RT is complex but I feel it is worth learning.
You should do one like "Luminar vs Darktable"
Bjarne Winkler Well, comparing the reference amongst commercial packages (Adobe LR) vs the reference amongst free packages (Darktable) makes more sense
Luminar is a commercial packages, but maybe not one that you have heard about even if it has been around for years and is used, per Skylum, by a lot of users. So this would be similar to comparing LR to Darktable, it would just be Luminar vs Darktable
Have heard about Luminar but it clearly is a 2nd rank tool .. behind the 1st rank ones (in alphabetical order):
Adobe
Capture One
DxO Photo Lab
I've had Luminar for months. If I do too many corrections, it refuses to export the file and locks up my PC. I don't even attempt to use it anymore, which is a shame. It has some good features.
Knowing you also use GIMP, I have a question. Since Darktable can be used to open RAW files in GIMP, do you have any thoughts on which program performs certain edits better? I'm newer to both and will be experimenting but just curious if you have any experience comparing results. Thanks for this video; glad to know and can still get solid results without Lightroom.
I am a long time Darktable user and hardly ever need to open up GIMP. 99% of my landscape work is done in Darktable alone. I use GIMP only in cases when I need to do lots of precise cloning or re-synthesize large areas.
@@TomasSobek Good to know. Thanks.
@@TomasSobeksame here, but I am able to clone and heal with the retouch module and almost never need to go outside darktable unless I need to use layers for things like composites.
my darketable doesn't have the BOOK and neither WEB I run the 2.6.6 for mac !!! personally it looks much more complicated and as you said pro photographers don't like spend hours editing pictures !!!!
omg mac users are even more simplistic in their use and understanding of use than windows users
i have a question, what's the point of RAW's if photoshop and gimp exist? I'm new to photography btw
Raw images retain more information. You can recover more highlight and shadows than from a JPG file. Also, you have much more accuracy on every color channel so if you push the picture far in post processing you start seeing things like posterization in JPG files but not in raws. Also, your camera might apply things like too heavy noise reduction or other processing which you'll have to live with, like it or not.
In addition to what Fingers said;
Raw files exist BECAUSE of editing programs, like Photoshop, Affinity Photo, Darktable, etc. Think of a raw file as a raw steak. You have to season it, cook it, and prepare it before it is ready to be consumed. The higher quality of the steak (getting the shot right in-camera), the better the meal (final product) will be. Now, you can still do all those things to a jpeg, but a jpeg is more like the pre-cooked gourmet sausages; seasoned and cooked, ready to go, but if you want to get creative, you can still butterfly those bad boys, cook them up in a skillet, add a sauce, some pasta, stir-fry some veggies in with it, and BAM! dinner is served.
If you just shoot snaps then use a JPG, the camera will make most of the developing choices for you and create a small JPG file which you can upload to faceache right away and it will dump all the extra unused data in the bin.. Job done
If you are a photographer then you will want to take control of that developing workflow so you can fine tune and sculpt the results yourself, then you shoot raw and have all of the original data that your camera captures to work with, you pick which of the data you want to use to create your photo and then export a JPG for uploading to the web or whatever.. The original RAW image cannot be altered or edited, it ALWAYS contains all of the original data and is processed non destructively so you can come back to it later and re-develop it to create a completely different look should you choose, and that happens more often than you might think as software improves ;)
As a friend said comparing Photography to Pottery - a RAW image is like raw clay you have more freedom in editing it, however once you baked it your choices are reduced significantly similar to a JPEG image
Perspective photoshop and gimp are more for image editing rather than processing. Lightroom/Darktable allow you to easily tweak images and alter them, photoshop/gimp are more for manipulation e.g. adding in fake object into the image
Darktable community is much better than the adobe one...
As someone who is SERIOUSLY considering cutting the Adobe cord, a few things are worthy of consideration:
Adobe has the inter app interaction down. Getting photos organized in LR, doing simple edits and then going over to PS is as easy as a right click.
The mobile platform, available on all mobile devices, makes editing on site and on the fly a snap. LR mobile even includes a camera on iPhone. And it does fairly well. I can share photos directly from my phone after editing in LR. Then I can view them on my Apple TV with family and friends via the ATV app. I can access my library from any computer, anywhere, via their internet portal and edit away.
I don’t see any alternative to this. Believe me- I’m looking.
if you use gimp, you get the same interapp use! but try a different workflow
So basically it depends on the camera and if you can edit within the camera...
Lightroom... 120 per year.. per year.. so in 10 years? 1200 bucks. Darkroom will only cost you the time to learn it, and YT is filled with videos to do just that. Also free.
I'll take the time to learn it and have money for travel trips to shoot. Sometimes, people need to get over "brand name itis"!
And you erase all you've done after that.
Professional photographers have a great workflow, so I guess Lightroom wins easily, since it makes things simpler and faster.
I disagree. If you take the time to learn how to use DarkTable effectively it can be much more powerful.
I import 1000's of RAWs at a time, no big difference in load times. If anything, Adobe Lr Updating interrupts your work.