1955: Meet the TEDDY BOYS | Special Enquiry | Voice of the People | BBC Archive
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2022
- Special Enquiry: Britain's Teenagers - a documentary presented by Denis Mitchell - follows the lives of different teenagers living in 1950s Britain.
This extract focuses on Mike and Pat, a couple of young London teddy boys whose pastimes include wearing Edwardian clothes, doing their hair and spending time with their mates and their 'steadies'. What are their likes, dislikes and ambitions? How do they feel about their parents and the older generations, and what do their parents think about them?
Originally broadcast, 1 November, 1955.
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These guys would be called model citizens today. Working at a job, having steady girlfriends, trying to be respectful of people outside their district ...
respectful they where not
They were also VERY racist too. That’s your model citizen out the window
@@bobbi6ix that makes them even better
@@bobbi6ix No more "racist" than anyone from 1955.
@@bobbi6ix yeah cos you were there were ya?
Imagine being worried your son is dressing up.
In a suit!
Yes, and not as a girl! Geez, today the MSM lefties celebrate transvestites and cross-dressers, I'd bet parents of teens like that *WISH* their sons would dress like the old school teddy boys!
Haha I'd be worried these days plus his mum would have a fit wearing her knickers and bra 😂
My old man was a ted/rocker..died couple of weeks ago..Rip dad
🙏
Rest in rocknroll
"They call men who wear conventional clothes peasants"
Some things never change
" I don't like how those thugs dress, they have suits on! SUITS!"
"What's wrong with them that they won't settle into an endless grey routine of grinding monotony?!"
No, what was wrong with them is that they used to hurt people especially if they were not white. Nobody minds a bloke wearing a suit or riding a motorbike.
Its just screaming realities at me. People would be surprised to think life isn't all glam now. And we've less places to meet!
"Don't believe all the press talk you read about, it's a build up for the papers" Some things never change...
look at how nice and well groomed and well kept and handsome they all were
And short. Rather short I find.
@@dmmoctober how can you tell they’re short from the video? that isn’t something i picked up on.
@@dmmoctober How do you know?
A lot of kids their age would've had an absent father growing up due to world war 2 and possibly had fathers killed
As I was growing up I used to love seeing the Teddy Boys. Always found them to be respectful and very sartorial.
0:15 🧸0:42 👀
The young women at the time actually seem more attractive than young women today, which is pretty amazing when you consider all the advantages that people today have over people in the 1950s.
Hey i checked out your channel. You're a great singer!
@@tylercsm4690 thank you 💚
I guess there are always good ones and bad ones. I watched and read reports about Teddy Boys. If you google "Teddy Boys" you'll see a newspaper article from the 50s. Headline: "War on Teddy Boys" - a report about how the police fights against criminal Teddy Boys. And during the time of the Teddy Boy revival in the 70s and 80s there where fights between Punks and Teds. Even Vivianne Westwood stopped to sell Teddy Boy clothes as she found out some of them were rassists and sexists. And started to sell punk style (mid 70s).
We are the Teds, and always will be, been living the Ted lifestyle for over 45 yrs now, and still going strong..
Teddy boy culture went out of fashion latest around the early 1960s. After that it was a different generation of youths with a different youth culture. So if you had walked around dressed as a teddy boy in 1978 you must have garnered some very odd looks and a lot of giggles behind your backs. Not that I personally think being a ted in any way wrong, but it does amaze me.
@@mikethespike7579 Your having a laugh, i became a Ted in 75, by the time 78 came along with where large gangs of Teds in every town and city up and down the country, not one person laughed or even giggled, people knew exactly who were were and what we were capable of, 1972 saw the Ted revival, and more and more people came into the scene, most wore their parents Drapes, but it wasnt long before the tailors realised they could make a packet, and they did, then punk came out and said they were going to wipe us out, well they tried, and failed, i spent many a bank holiday down Margate, Hasting and Brighton where we fought the punks and skinheads, you must have been asleep or not born yet if you thought that
@@OldAgeTeddyboyThanks for your detailed comment. Sounds like I missed out on a bit fun then. I left UK shores end of 1970 towards the end of the flower power "movement" when girls were wearing hot pants. Where I then lived this ted revival was not reported.
I like the bit where young guys put on their dads' old jackets. That warms my heart. I remember as a young kid, those jackets were the most important part of a ted's gear. Without that you simply weren't a teddy boy. Owning an authentic original jacket probably boosted bragging rights a lot.
We had punks where I was, but they came far later. I could never warm to them. Strange music tastes, strange everything really, they were not my type.
45 years? thats the edge of punk/ska
@@davehoward22 Been a Ted since 1975
Plato’s theories and all that caper.
a teddy boy once fixed my fence for me, he was a nice chap
“Mike the Welder” leaning back describing his lifestyle was pure Monty Python, my was he way ahead of his time !
Sounds like the Cockneys had similar social cues as Scousers, my love told me that in those days visiting guys knew never to stare at the girls,
his father was an early teddy boy,
they're both gone now,
thanks for this little gem from history, I hope the guys lived happy lives.
Kept waiting for Harry Enfield to pop up!!! Mr Chomley-Warner
My dad was a Teddy Boy. He had to hide his jacket from his parents! I was a Teddy Girl in the 80s. We have the best music.
What kind of music did the different generations of Teddy Boys listen to?
@@thebeatnumber my dad liked Buddy Holly, The Everleys, Conway Twitty, Jim Reeves, early Johnny Cash (Ballad of a Teenage Queen was on '45).
Liked the same artists plus Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, UK bands like Matchbox, The Jets. I listen to all of these artists every day.
My late uncle was a Teddy boy and he was smartly dressed I thought and he got me liking Elvis he was a Ted from a young age right up till he died we sadly lost him to covid in the early days of the pandemic and he was buried in his Teddy boy clothes and the hair he had left was still styled my uncle was a great guy always good fun and he was a good kid and went out his way to hep people and he kinda adopted his next door neighbour as his kid brother as he used to hang out with him and he protected him too as the boy was picked on for having Down’s syndrome and my uncle always kept a look out for him but he was a great guy and so sadly missed
My condolences to you and your family 🖤
For anyone interested, the Teddy Boys are pretty much exactly what Alex and his Droogs would dress like in A Clockwork Orange (well, not exactly the same but far closer than Kubrick's portrayal in his fantastic film)
1:24 that cute dog must be over 65yrs old today!
Still chasing the stick today 👍
@@garryleeks4848 woof woof 🐕
@@fidelcatsro6948 🦮fetch boy
This was 67 years ago, he'll be 84rys. (in 2022).
Arthritis, erectile dysfunction, emphysema, chest pains, Alzheimer's, bald, skin cancers, scrotum down to his knees, haemorrhoids the size of Texas - and false teeth.
Apart from those minor ailments, exactly the same as in 1955.
@@NoosaHeads anything you missed 😂
I think they looked good, neat, well dressed. I think the hairstyle was what people didn't like. I can remember this when I was very young.
Being a Teddy Boy was probably no better or worse than being a Mod, Rocker, Punk, New Romantic or anything else that came later and involved young people wearing the same sort of clothes, listening to the same music etc.
I felt sorry for Mike. He should have followed his dream and gone to Africa. Maybe he did eventually, who knows.
He didn't need to go to Africa. Africa came to London.
@@fs.pureblood clown.
@@fs.pureblood And I'm so happy, I hope more and more come to take over jobs mainly doctors, nurses and lawyers that they usually are.
@@ilovegot7754 then you are part of the problem. People like you should be made to put them up in your house at your own expense.
@@ilovegot7754 sadly you can't argue with drunks, religious maniacs or BIGOTS.....
Look how clean the streets are
They were the first youth cult and as such anyone who was a mod, rocker, hippie, punk, skinhead or even Goth owes them a lot.
You can Ligma?
@@TeddyBelcher4kultrawide pepe profile picture, terrible bait memes. go back to twitch and be a degenerate there
Particularly knife crime, which they invented!
There is a follow up called Ten Years After: Pat and Mike, 1964. They had become window cleaners.I found it in the bbc archive, but cannot find it on you tube.
There is one more follow up from 1977(?) as well. I wonder what's happened with them afterwards.
Another follow up from 1977? I would love to see it. I wonder what happened to them later in life also.
You should see if you can turn it into a you tube video yourself. The last follow up they made the film adventures of a window cleaner. I think it's a movie you can look it up.
BBC website under "Archive" section:
1. 7 minute clip of "Ten Years After: Part and Mike, 1964"
2. Festival '77 - Where are they now" includes Pat (still cleaning windows and flashy attire). He said Mike moved to New Zealand
They seem far nicer than most of the teenage lads of today to be honest.
Also the girls seem more attractive than today's young women.
Clearly you have not read about the Notting Hill riots. Gangs of Teddy Boys used to terrorize immigrants and that is why there is a strong association of the original Teddy Boys with racist violence. When Teddy Boys came back in the 70s they were also involved in violence againts other subcultures such as punks
@@ajs41because they’re not half naked like todays girls
@@ajs41maybe stop insulting women's looks??? Women don't need to be attractive and also are you even remotely attractive?
@@ax3226if today's girls are half naked, men can blame themselves for that.
There always was a teddy boy culture in Britain in 50s/60s but the rock n roll revival mid 70s introduced a new generation of young Ted's into the scene.
An old ted told me the rock n roll scene in the 70s/80s was far better than the 1950s.
It was very restricted back in 50s where you could dance and drink alcohol.
The culture was equally big in Ireland in the fifties and many of the earliest Teddy Boys were Irish or second generation Irish in London. I was around then and know it is true. It was the Irish who introduced Country Boogie music to the scene around 1953 (Moon Mullican, Hank Williams etc). By the seventies the so called Teddy Boys were a pastiche of us originals. They were exaggerated in the clothing as they copied clowns like Showaddywaddy and Mud. We saw them as different.
I would say that the music in the fifties was better and more varied. By the eighties it was too centralised on Rockabilly music. I think your old Ted friend may have been a tad "shy" in the fifties as we had plenty of places to listen to R'n'R, dance and drink alcohol!!!
Gen z girl here, I wouldn't mind if they came back.. pleeeeease
We're still about
@@heathen-greaser I am 33 years old so obviously before my time but I think they look well dressed and smart, would love if this look made a comeback
'So I singled out the ring leader and gave 'im a really good punch on the nose ...' - sorted .
...."and then the whole street cheered and shook my hand"...lol she was talking complete crap.
SorTED....
Wouldn’t it be great to catch up with these boys.
Why does the first guy look like Ringo Starr? I know he was a teddy boy around this time which is why the Beatles were scared of him at first since they were more rockers while Ringo was full teddy boy
@DnB and Psy Production yeah I think he looked like that when he was with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes I think at that point he was just Richard Starkey
Mike and Pat if still alive would be in there 80s now.
That's right, the one who was 17 would be 84. Staggering thought.
@@crispindry2815 yes indeed, not realising that the octogenarian was one of the pioneers of teen-culture? Which is what I guess the Teddy Boys were.
@@crispindry2815 thats just stupid and ignorant thing to say, if someone is like that must be stupid,
@@crispindry2815 You are so so so right. Oh, and I would be one of those old farts...proud to have been a Teddy Boy in the fifties...the greatest time ever.
07:10 It’s amazing how convinced people can be that they’re right. Being wrong never crosses their mind.
Like flat earthers 😭 lol
Fascinating video. I'd love to know more about these lads. I hope they have had happy lives.
it's a bit late but my grandfather was a Teddy boy in the late 50s, about 1958 to be exact and he was a really good man. he lived a very good life and lived to be 81 years old. he was nothing like the people they talk about in this video so I suppose it comes down to the individual.
I can't believe boys wearing suits were considered rough and rowdy. These people would have a heart attack if they some roadmen
Shows how far we've fallen
There's roadmen and roadmen, and there's teddy boys and teddy boys. Teddy boys were treated like that because they dressed like the petty criminals of their day. Same today. Lots of ordinary kids just dressing a certain way to look edgy, mixed with a few actual criminals. Most of these 'roadmen' are just kids. It doesn't show anything except a desire for rebellion, let alone 'how far we've fallen', Tmuk2
@@olivercuenca4109 compare the murder rates in London from 1955 to today
@@Tmuk2 Compare the Crays and the Richardsons to today's small fry county liners
@@olivercuenca4109 The Krays murdered 2 people. Big wow.
I was 14 in 1955, My family moved about too much for me to form connections with the local 'groups of Teds. The Paper's seem to be full of Trouble maker's, smashing up Cinema seats etc. And causing havoc at Dance Halls. But these lads,seem decent enough. They just rebelled against the post War world of their father's values, which had a strong element of the military national Service still prevelant. Luckliy for the TED's, the government scrapped National Service 6 yrs later, otherwise, they'd have lost their prized 'Tony Curtis Hair, and ELVIS sulkyness.
I love it when the lady said she blames the parents. We’ll me to luv, if it wasn’t for my stepdad I wouldn’t be a Ted.
To think the woman wouldve been q young woman in the 30s and gone through the wars. I dont why but I find it so amazing.
My dad was a ted in greenock Scotland in the early 50s. I miss him alot
Weirdly scripted in parts but illuminating and brilliant all the same. The Mods especially and the Punks on a more nihilistic level had a similar rebel mindset but in a very different Britain and a media fervour of another level altogether. Rebel rebel!
Teddy Boys 1950s
Mods then the Hippies 1960s
Punks then the New Wavers 1970s
Metal Heads 1980s
“I gave him a good punching on the nose“ 😂😂😂
"a big dosey blonde"🤣🤣
She'd have to be
The woman at the beginning is hilarious!
I was 33 days old when this came out.
So, you're saying you're 68?
they’re all very attractive
Apparently being annoyed at young people is universal over the generations lol Although the "dressing up" is way more disturbing today 😭
15 years later
There was a song on Paul McCartney first solo record after the Beatles broke up.
The name of the song was TEDDY BOY.
Give it a listen, its a brilliant song especially the version which he was rehearsing with the Beatles at EMI.
Love that track, great album bowl of cherries on the album cover
John Lennon was a teddy boy himself during the early Quarrymen days
@@_MaxHeadroom_ They (The Beatles) were all rock n rollers in Hamburg. Little Gene Vincents in their leathers. One fateful day Paul McCartney played 'twenty flight rock' in front of Lennon at the village hall/fete.
Mike and Pat were probably called up for National Service the following year. On the plus side, that might have given Mike his opportunity to visit Africa. Or Malaya. Or Aden ....
Wasn’t National Service super boring?
@@manaih5652 I think for many National Serviceman it was pretty boring, at least after their initial training. Unlike the Americans, who only called up draft quotas to fill manning levels, the UK called up everyone who was eligible (theoretically). So we had a lot more than were needed, which meant a lot of guys spent the majority of their time painting rocks and the like. For others though they could be spent on active service anywhere from Korea to Kenya.
@@pasha578 thanks so much for this great reply!
I met an old man who went to Aden, he said he would walk along side a truck holding a bed sheet up next to the head lamp so the enemy couldn’t see it so well at night, he said it didn’t work 100% he got shot at nearly every night he still had the sheet with bullet holes on it.
@@crispindry2815 I didn’t make it up, the old guy may have exaggerated a bit, he was in his late 90s and was still working on the yard of a builders merchant so I have no doubt he was a tough man.
Looking for the brief documentary about the gangs of grannies, or even the one about the vicious gangs of keep left signs.
The woman at the beginning who gave the teddy boys a good punching is Mary Ann Parperis (1919-1976). My dad was friends with her son Stephen. A force to be reckoned with!
My dad was a teddy boy he's told me it was the best days of his lifeoved the music too 🙂
I only 1st saw teddy boys in a youtube clip of a Bo Diddley concert in England in the late 50s or early 60s. They were all dancing like crazy. Lol
Most of them still had respect for the older people
0:42 👀
Yes, we did. We were not really rebelling against anything or anybody....just having a good time, dressing cool and listening to music.
My dad was a Ted, in the 70s, when he was 3oish he grew his da out and wore clothes of the fashion, I didn't think he looked as smart as he did before, sadly he died in 74, when my brother was 7 and I was 9,god I still miss him😢
I was a rocker, it’s the idea of shocking people, hanging out in gangs acting tough, we had tight hipster jeans, studded belts, leather jackets, pointy boots.. I liked punk because it reminded me of being a rocker.
Was u a red devil south london 1960s
My grandad was a Teddy Boy, lol. He was proud of it. 😂
I was 8 yrs old do remember them in Woolwich South East London.
my father was an original teddyboy from battersea
The Dad has the same issues as all nowadays dads. 😆
0:14 If a woman would try that in todays London, it would be another knife crime statistic
Teds used cut throat razors
Do you mean the woman would have just stabbed him, some of these old dears are deadly
mike was HANDSOME
dudes rock
at 4 minute they are litening to the Ted Heath Band playing Lullaby of Birdland, issue by Decca in 1954
If you hadn't have pointed it out , then I would have :)
"Plato's theories and all that caper"
It was the Rock & Roll what corrupted them.
We were not corrupted by anything...just having a laugh and enjoying life.
That first woman was such a stooge.
Great days 1960
Just teenage fashion looking cool for the ladies
And it was cool to have a job
Teddy Boys Rock 🙂 Smart on many levels.
Are you representing? Empty your pockets right now I’m gonna have to ask you why my name is coming out of your mouth
My dad says he was a teddy boy but he was born in 1956? Lmao 🤣
It kept being fashionable last time was early eighties.
Teds were still about in the late 70's having fights with punks.
He was probably a second generation Teddy Boy.
"A load of crumb"
Language, Timothy!
Compare these lads to the typical youth of London today and its a wonder quite what any of the parents were actually worried about!
They seem positively delightful in that they don't seem the type to go around mugging people and stabbing each other. They also speak proper English. How times change!
You call that proper English?
Yes! Positively "delightful" when they're not jumping and beating on people who didn't look like them 🙄
Most people on the streets today are just like this. We perceive them as worst than they are just like they did back then.
My dad was a Teddy boy around the same age back in 1955, I think they look smartly dressed to me and a style of it's time along before hippie's,, glam rock, mods, punk, new romantics etc, 😊
I'm a ted the dress is smart and the music fantastic god bless rock n roll thank god I'm a ted
These people now sit and moan about today's youth 😂
oh pat 😍😍
Marianne n' Maureen then...meooooowww😘..(old grannies now!)
I can't imagine a woman punching a gang leader today and getting away with it.
This actress can
@@dzenacs2011 They were probably scared she'd tell their Mothers
A gang member at that time would have been ashamed to attack a woman or an old person, even if they had attacked him first.
@@ajs41 yes.. I remember front page headlines in the late 1980s when two elderly women were beaten and robbed for their purses. People were horrified. Now it's so common they rarely get reported.
A couple of my childhood mates had older brothers who were, or rather had been, teddy boys. Even in their late 20s, married with at least one kid, a steady job and a mortgage on a house they still kept the same hairdo and mannerisms, but had tossed the teddy boy gear for a more conventional suit. Today these guys would be considered pillars of society and that's what they they were then, just that society didn't appreciate them for some reason. Sure, there were stories, usually knife fights and arguments between gangs, but nothing anywhere near what we hear of in the news these days.
'that boy' - when referring to his son. Perhaps common terminology back then.
Nope, just actors reading a script
Yes it was.
Better that hoodies, tracksuit, trousers hanging halfway down the arse look they have today.
These were the real teddy boys, smart as f##k.
Imagine going back in time and showing them road men cruising about on E scooters playing drill and vaping.
“Evacuated”. A childhood without parental love. A fostered life. Don’t you think he might look for a sense of belonging?
Today it seems like we only have one youth culture and that is dressing like a sportsman but not doing sport and smoking lots of weed and listening to very embarrassing British rap. At least the 60s, 70s and 80s kids had diverse music and each cult had their own dress style, now it's just all youth just wearing track suits and baseball caps
@john smeaton that's a sign of too much BBC TV mate. Focus more, You will feel sleepy 😘👌
That is absolutely not true. Should read some statistics about youth culture and how diverse it is.
Seems like you’re making the exact same mistake as the woman at the beginning of the video
@@harrypottershead8331 breaking news :polls & statistics lie. In fact statistics show you are very wrong
@@jamieb0nd this is the sign of a generation gap, the parents of 60's kids did not like psych rock, the parents of 70s kids did not like punk... etc. So it is expected you wouldn't like modern music.
And she was put on the top 10 police list for violent disturbances.
My grandfather was a Teddy Boy in his youth
Definitely better times
2:43 this chap handsome as hell
Looks like my uncle back in those days, he was a model and looked smart as hell
"Teddy Boys are farming, it's all a little alarming..."
-- Steve Harley, from the song "Panorama"
Jacket shirt and tie. Very fashionable and well dressed when compared to what people are wearing today
They’re call Roadman now 🤣🤣🤣
no, not comparable at all
@Oliver Wortley It’s the next generation. I never said they were like each other in style. Kids there age are now referenced to as road-man. Class and race also has nothing to do with it. I know rich kids that talk just like them and dress like them as well. You must be out of touch with this generation because of your age. But this is how your typical British teenager acts and talks like now. Like roadmen.
The Teds got a bad rap because before then there really wasn't any teenage rebellion or even any teenagers as a group.....people left school and went straight into work, going from being children to adults in one quick step at the age of 14 or 15. Compared to some teenagers today the Teds seem responsible, hardworking and just looking to enjoy being young, free and single while they can. I think the publican in this film summed it up best with his opinion.
"The clothes make the man" -Teddy boy.
I am sure they were actors reading a script, especially the old harridan who allegedly punched one of them when he accosted her
Yeah actors. last one "his dad" thinks he is in the movie or something
You need your eyes tested!.😑 She's Young.🙄
Yes, I got that impression. The way the 'father' talked about 'the boy' and 'the child' it was quite clear they were in no way related. It was an actor repeating conventional judgements about the young.
@@altudy Dad sounded far too posh to have a son like that, frankly, and the voice of the woman who claimed she punched one of the boys on the nose, sounded like the late Hilda Fenemore, who cropped up in dozens of films and thousands of TV shows from the 50s to the 80s - she might have dubbed and lip-sinked the woman you saw. With a dad reading Plato, I suppose it is just possible the son was rebeling (I knew a vicars son who became one of the more extreme punk rockers), but I suspect the voices were actors though the lads might have been real teddy boys - whoever they were, you wonder what happened to them, as the 17 year olds would have been conscripted into the services a year or so later. woder if that made them rebel more or conform like their parents wanted?. Sad to think they are now either very elderly or dead.
Like they're reading it
When people were real people
All those saying this is scripted. I am sure they practised. Also people spoke better years ago, when I listen to tapes of my grandparents from the 1970s she sounded like the queen, and she was working class, as were my parents.
Pat looks like Tom Hardy, especially from Legend movie
I haven't seen a Ted for at least 35 years.....are there any left
aye, I'm born in the 70s and I remember still seeing them in the 80s, wearing the brothel creepers etc.
Yep we are still about.
@Madam Cyn ...wot ...still here and queen?
@DnB and Psy Production 2nd hand thrift store? Attics, basements with old outfits?
Mostly at Rock n Roll & Rockabilly weekenders ,most visitors are old but keen as hell and like me and my two brothers wouldn"t be caught
dead in trainers or tracksuits . We were more Rockers since we always owned Motorcycles and two of us still do ,but we wore the Ted suits
to band nights and I even wore mine to school till leaving at 15 . My Dad died in a Motorbike accident ,but our Ma was probably the first
Hippie ,as long as we kept the police from the door she was very liberal . I have lived and worked here there and everywhere but always found a lot of Ted groups no matter where you lived ,but London Teds were surly towards Northerners . I lived for years in Blackpool and the Ted fraternity there was massive and we used to hire a van and later a mini bus to travel to Gigs - sometimes as far as France .Teds
in Steel or Pit Towns were usually hard nuts ,but rarely fought each other .I could write a thick book about what my older brother and his mates got up - to and we all married young but my Mrs. was never fazed was never scared of anybody and did most things better than most my mates .She died in 2020 from Covid - lost my best friend ,my racing sidecar passenger and the only person who was keener on our lifestyle than me ! . Odd as when I met her she was a dancer & professional ice skater . Enjoyed the Video & peoples comments .......
They all gave the impression of reading a script.
They all actors
That's the impression I got. I guess television was very much in its infancy in those days, so they were careful over how they did things. Plus it reflects the more 'correct' culture of those times. But yes, it did seem scripted, rehearsed.
@@martm216 Nothing changes
Back then people purposely spoke in this way infront of the camera. This still happens in some parts of the world. Where they will speak in the standard/formal language even though it's not anywhere close to the language they actually speak, infront of cameras and stand really upright.
@@martm216 I don't think it is scripted or rehearsed. It's just the way people talked and behaved in those days.
Where do I get me a Teddy Boy? Smoking. pun intended.
Try the classifieds in The Modern Edwardian magazine. I'll have a Woodbine, ta....