Halo Infinite Slipspace CPU 101
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In this video I talk about:
-How SLIPSPACE works
-Things people do wrong
-Things you can do right
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UPDATE:
Still getting comments on this 6 months later. Some things I’ve discovered to be not quite accurate since this has been posted.
-The bottleneck has shifted from what was publicly understood with the new 13th gen Intel and 7th gen AMD. I saw huge performance gains when going from a 13900k/3080 to 13900k/4090, as well as latency reductions and general system stability improvements. Highly recommend one of the newer generations of cards IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A GOOD CPU (12/13700k, 12/13900k, 7900/7950x). If you don’t have a good CPU, you won’t be able to utilize a better card. CPU upgrades first.
-The reason they don’t use HT/SMT is mainly because the throughput of slipspace yielded heavily reduced gains and actually hurt performance past 9 threads. 9 was the magic number for them. This was revealed in the “one frame in infinite” GDC talk. So it’s actually smart of them to utilize 9 individual cores with one thread each, than 5 cores with 4 of them using 2 threads (that would’ve been a much worse bottleneck)
hey man i got a 5800x3d with a 3080ti 32gb. 240hz monitor
would it make sense for me to go a full 240fps? or stick with the 120fps?
what do you suggest
would you consider a 5950x a 'good cpu' in the context of upgrading from an overclocked 3090 to a 4090 for competitive halo infinite?
solid, solid explanation overall. everything was well said and explained (coming from a dude with an IT background) Ive seen a few people (some comments on activee's settings video) as well as myself when dropping the dynamic res down from native to something more efficient theres actually a decrease in fps. Odd behavior. thoughts on this? appreciate this kinda content man!
That’s a hard question to confidently nail considering it can be different from PC to PC based on parts/strength. The minimum framerate setting/dynamic res is applied ON TOP of the render resolution scale option if your fps drops below the minimum. If your FPS is going down, it might be because the drop in resolution is transferring stress to an already bottlenecked CPU. Hard to know the answer without testing tbh.
I just found about you today and really enjoy your tweets, videos, and the knowledge you’re giving out on optimizing Infinite. Keep up the good work man love it
12:50 could this be because RDNA 2 is what the xbox series X is built on meaning during development the team probably was able to code more performance out of that architecture?
Good theory!
Just upgraded my pc. So glaD I found your videos before spending the $$$. Got the right info to spending money where it was need most. Huge improvement in performance by going hRd on beefy CPU and ram. Thanks a bunch !
Still hilarious to me so many ppl are under the impression Slipspace is the same as blam just because it has some similarities in the dev tools. 95%+ of that engine is brand new which is a big part of the reason stuff has been slow and stuff like this happens
I can't say for certain but I feel like animations are smoother after applying.
Ryzen 5 3600
EVGA 3090
32 GB RAM
Thanks for making this. Lowering my settings now.
The series x is a 8 core cpu with an option for hyperthreading... Why would a game engine that was designed for the series x be designed to run on 9 cores?
the GDC presentation explains more but they basically have different setups for xbox one vs series x vs PC regarding the amount of cores each one uses
you are so handsome you make me feel special
Thanks for the explanation bro, gonna give PC Infinite a try with your settings.
I love to see helpful videos for halo on pc because it seems not to be many to help us
Real Good Video, I loved the indepth explanation of how The CPU worked with infinite and other games, Thanks
you can right click the cpu graph in taskman and select change graph to logical processors to see the utilization better
Appreciate the video brother. New knowledge
Im one of those people who falsely assumed that just by getting an 8c16t cpu(r7 2700) that games would use all those threads, i have since learned my lesson. Good video!
This is informative. Knowledge.
Should we who have 8-core CPUs disable multi-threading to increase responsiveness/performance in Infinite? Or would it decrease performance?
I tested this some time ago. No difference, but I was not comprehensive with what I looked at. Maybe I’ll revisit this
Hey appreciate the explanation, running a R9 5900x and 3080 and been curious why Halo seems to run significantly worse than almost any other game i play lol.
my cpus cores are still maxed out even at 120 fps on halo infinite 12700k 4070 ti 32 GB of ram is my build
So I have a cpu (i7 11700k) with a 3080, what would the best FPS I could get hypothetically for better performance and not have my cpu die on me lol, curious cause I haven’t played this game in months.
I've definitely noticed this, with my ryzen 5 5600 and rtx 3070 I have the game locked at 144 and latency is under 5ms, but if I start streaming, the stream will look great, my game will still run at 144fps, but the latency will jump to 13-15ms and will feel choppy. already ordered a r7 5800x3d as it has been proven to be basically just as good as the ryzen 7000 series in gaming performance and I don't feel like getting a new mobo and making the switch to ddr5 ram( I already got 32gb ddr4 at 3200mhz) and in the meantime I've switched to a dual PC streaming setup to take the work load off of the main pc and keep my latency low
Can you please help me or explain to me why my computer I downloaded Halo infinite on Xbox game pass on the app for PC and now the game takes like 5 minutes to just initially load up at the start screen I don't understand why and then when I'm loading into a map it says it gets stuck at like 35 50 percent and then we'll load find the rest of the
Thanks for the video, just getting started with it but just wanted to say hyper threading has been on mainstream cpus since the pentium 4 in 2002
Good information. Crazy how strange the slipspace engine was designed to interact with the cpu.
It's baffling that they went out of their way to design their own engine which so stupidly utilizes the CPU
HT has been available since Pentium 4 desktop processors in November 2002, BUT most or all games did not use it back then. Sometimes a capability comes along but since it takes a lot more work to program for it, it doesn't get utilized.
Thank you XLR8
i rly like your red odst helmet. thnx for the the advice
When I run Halo Infinite on Linux (Fedora Version 36) at uncapped fps with dynamic resolution, all 16 threads on my 2700x are utilized and max out around the 40-60% range. Since my gpu is a vega 56, and likely a bottleneck, should I just invest in a reasonable upgrade to my gpu?
My PC behaves the same
this video changed my life... I too was troubled by the noobs who thought they were running the game flawlessly at 240 on their geforce 9300
Definitely seeing some pro’s playing at 240… wonder what the trick is to make it feel better. I have a $4000 computer and I’m playing at 120fps 😆
I play @ 240 with a 13900k and 4090. It holds well, but certain BTB maps it just barely holds if too many people are around. Cuts very close
My old pentium 4 prescott 3 ghz (one core) had HT. but the core 2 duo didnt have it if I remember. maybe only the extreme edition. than i7.
I really needed to word that differently, what I moreso meant was most people weren’t buying CPUs with HT capability for gaming until around the 8700k. Instead it came out like they didn’t exist
@@XLR8_LIVE true i had a 2500k for 7 years prior to my 8700k then i swapped for a 9900k lol
So, just to make sure im following, Slipspace is bound to 9 threads (not cores). So therefore, at least for modern CPUs with 2 threads per core, splurging on a high end 12 core processor will see minimal gains there? As long as you have a cpu with 6 cores (12 threads total), clock speed would be king at that point more or less, yeah?
Separate from that, really appreciate this sort of video. Task Manager serving cpu utilization instead of logical core utilization has always been frustrating to me, and is a nuance that is hard to get across to the average joe.
9 threads- but it can’t use two from the same core- so 9 cores 9 threads. A 12 core CPU would actually be great because it’ll have the 9 cores it needs, and 3 spare for windows.
@@XLR8_LIVE interesting, must have missed the one thread per cpu bit. Refactoring multithreading for the engine would in fact be somewhere in between a pain in the ass and impossible, but it'd be lovely to see down the line.
In the meantime, I'll keep this workflow in mind!
@@TeeHallumsYT Wdym, they have multithreading, just no hyperthreading (as in intel's term). I think it's likely programmed this way to avoid some performance issues, which was mentioned in a Forza Horizon 5 interview or dev blog.
@@devondorr8212 Its a job scheduler, not a proper multithreader.
I don't usually comment on video's but this is the best video i've ever seen, thank you for the information, i also appreciate the suggestions on what to buy, hope to see more in the future!
quick question, what would you suggest for cpu and gpu and ram to hold 240fps steady in 4v4s? SUBBED
Minimum 12700k/7900x and 4070ti/4080
Thanks for the reply mate, for gpu wise would you say 8gb would work? or would you suggest higher? also what about the ram? many thanks
Watching this after I bought a 4090
12:47 It could also be that the game just favors amd hardware... *i mean it is an xbox title and xbox utilizes amd hardware soooo...*
So I have a Ryzen 9 5900x and a 6900xt I should set my game to 120 FPS max? Very Good Video
SUBBED
This seems really weird. As a AAA game why wouldnt they be trying to use all the threads that you have and just cap it at 9?
Learned well after making this video that the Slipspace engine starts to lose efficiency after 9 threads. They tested more threads but the gains didn’t offset the loss (very little details provided)
@@XLR8_LIVE Hm, that seems kinda weird. Thank you though!
Thanks for this! I’m going to do some trial and error on my side. Is there any way to measure input lag other than the feeling of the game?
Nvidia overlay has a built in render queue latency measure, but render queue is just one of 10-12 different factors of your input delay. Not realistically possible since infinite doesn’t support nvidia reflex. Only other option is thousands in camera equipment
@@XLR8_LIVE thanks for the reply!
Recently upgraded my 8600K to a 9900K to save on building a completely new PC but still get some more performance - after watching this I’m still leaving performance on the table, lol.
I game at 1440p - will need to do some testing to see where my stable frame limit is at, since lower resolutions tend to be more CPU bound. Also still running a GTX 1080 👊🏻
I think part of the difference with AMD cards might be that they support Async compute better.
Could be to be honest, I never thought about that.
What about me? I have a i7 12800HX - I have found that the game can feel smoother on unlocked fps setting, hwoever- If I put it at lets say 60 frames it can feel more consistent /sometimes/
GPU is 3070 Ti 150 watt
Sounds like you’re on a laptop? Those are rough to estimate but I’d say somewhere between 60 and 120. Definitely wouldn’t go any higher than 120 with mobile component power limitations
@@XLR8_LIVE Thanks for your response. I put it at the 72 preset and it's perfect. I appreciate your videos
nice bro good stuff
4c/8t i7-7700k which has better single core performance until the 11th gen still going strong here running Infinite at 1080p 120 fps without any dips. Definitely can't stream or do anything else though.
Is this why the game keeps crashing?
It can be a contributor, might not be the reason though
I have an amd ryzen 5 5600x and a 3060 ti. Trying to fig out what to change in the settings to be able to stream while playing. My pc gets a little hot and my mic stops working if I try to stream. New to the pc world. What exactly does that indicate and if I put all settings on low would that make it ok you think? Just been scared to test it. Don’t want to ruin anything
Well sounds like I'm locking it at 144 frames
My previous comment was apparently deleted.
Have a Ryzen 9 5900x, 3080 12GB, and 64 GB DDR4-4000 running Windows 11 22H2. I run Infinite at 2496x1404 with my settings at Ultra/High, except reflections and shadow on low. With an uncapped framerate I am getting roughly 140fps standing still in a BTB map. Infinite appears to be using all cores and hover around 50%. I have a screenshot available.
Why does my PC behave so different?
I’ve had a few people report as such. No idea as to why. You’re the third instance I’ve seen or heard.
game runs smooth at 1080p low on an i5 4430, paired with an r9 290, now ill admit this install of windows was pretty tuned and processor usage is very low but 60fps is pretty constant given the age of the system, same with spiderman remaster it funs surprisingly fine and only drops sometimes specifically in cutscenes and its a cpu drop
which this all makes sense as the single core ipc for intel 4th gen is pretty good
keep in mind the pc i mentioned is already better than a console experience
personally i use an r5 1600AF aka 2600 which isnt amazing but im holding it till the end, cant do 144hz unless oc but even then its not stable enough to enjoy, ram 16gb at cl14 3200mhz oc at 4.2ghz at 1.375v isnt desirable but manages to get a stable 120fps, stable to me means the 0.01% has to be your FPS cap otherwise it feels awful when it drops,
however i run the game capped at 90hz and dont oc, i do this for multiple reasons, my monitor has shitty ghosting at 120hz but 144hz is fine and so is 90hz
You can even show each specific thread in the task manager by right clicking on the graph. Does it show the same usage as the Resource Manager is the question...
Idk whats worse, this game cpu demands or you harping on about twitter clowns for most of the video.
Thanks for the info though mate
this is interesting bc my friend compared 6900XT, 3090TI and 4090. and the 4090 was like 2x the 3090TI at 1080p Low
I’m hoping to secure a 4080 later this month to provide more data on that. The information is a little conflicting, even for people testing 4090s. Not suprised someone’s getting a different result.
@@XLR8_LIVE funny enough he is even cpu bottlenecked. he tested all those on a 12700K
2x more fps on a 4090?
This may have just saved me. Looks like I'm going to look into this to drop some latency and deal with some tearing at 140 frames
Really clear explananation. What do you think is the best balance for performance on a 6 core CPU? I'm not in the position to do a CPU upgrade from a 5600x.
On my 8700k (Intel 6 core, same as yours) I played on a hard capped 150 FPS @ 80% render scale
@@XLR8_LIVE Right I've got things capped at 144. I haven't messed with render scale as much but I'lll play around with that and see if it works. Thanks.
Where you get that helmet?
Was made for me by a community member :)
Dude. Hyper threading was even in some Pentium 4 cpus. You’re way off on the time line
I hate the be the “well akshually” guy, but hyperthreading was around in (accessible) desktop CPU’s around 2011 when the Intel 2000 series desktop cpus came out. I may have missed a little bit of what you were saying at the beginning tho lol
No you’re right. That was something I didn’t properly explain in the video.
Super interesting stuff. Too bad the engine is designed like that... Thanks for going through the trouble of finding this out and explaining it. Great video!
Ok so this all makes perfect sense to me and when I went to go test this out on my AMD 5800x. I opened up the resource manager to see if I was maxed out and it shows 15 cores all being used equally at 30%-40% usage with a single core it labeled as a "service" core at next to no usage. I'm currently using a 3070 and 5800x. I have my settings on high at 1440p and I'm locked at 165fps when Im seeing this usage (165hz 1440p is what my monitor supports). Does that mean Infinite supports SMT for AMD processors? Or am I missing something else? I don't have anything else running when I test.
I'm wondering this too! What if Infinite plays better on AMD...🥴
@@xMCxVSxARBITERx makes sense since its made for Xbox....so AMD hardware
Much appreciated lol
Planning on grabbing a 7800x3d when those drop. Currently on a 9700k and 3080, which struggles hard. Does the increase in V-cache from the x3d chips have an impact here or not really? Great content, clear explanations.
Most likely
Maybe I’m misunderstanding. But my takeaway is that higher FPS doesn’t mean lower input lag?
Not if the system is straining really hard to produce it. Only looks better
Something you should look into is why there is (at least for myself) higher FPS yet lower CPU usage when going from unlimited to max FPS, even though not reaching the max FPS! It doesn't make sense to me at all lol
When on unlocked fps, your CPU is allowed to do an unlimited amount of calling and it will always bottleneck itself, leading to reduced performance
I just bought my first PC and this game just freezes and crashes 15 minutes in. I'm still going to mess with the settings more and see if I can get it to work.
bro just tell me what motherboard, memory, gpu, and cpu to buy..... this game is pretty much all i play. i think i can figure the settings out as i go, but still im trying to put together a price for this rodeo.
and i'm over here with a i7-3770. 🤣
I was waiting for one of these comments😂
@@XLR8_LIVE and a 980 Ti. 60fps on low ftw.
Time to upgrade my R5 3600. Although, I hope to see more mouse improvements. Not really a controller guys on fps games.
Thanks man!
Hey man , thanks so much So your saying get a cpu that’s better in single threaded performance ? Also do you think cas latency of ddr5 ram being so high would effect and making sniping in infinite delayed or feel delayed ? Not as snappy
what if i have 4 cores and 8 threads what do i do💀 i have an i7-4790
Pray
@@XLR8_LIVE i fiddled with the settings & found something that worked
I came across this video today and I'm curious if there was a performance update to the game - I have a Ryzen 7 5700x and a 3080FE with 16gb 4000mhz, not crap tier but not top end either. Not sure if it's an AMD processor thing, but resource monitor suggests that all 16 threads are in use around 80-90% at 1080p 100% render scale and I consistently get between 210 and 240 fps. I wonder if the game did in fact enable SMT or if this is more of an issue with Intel CPUs. I also have another system with a 10700k that ran a little bit slower because of the clock speeds on that chip, but I'm not sure that this video still holds up 4 months later. I'm curious if I'm an outlier or if something changed!
I’ve seen the same things from a small handful of people (literally like 5-6). But I will say it’s not just an Intel thing, as I was helping Lucid with his computer months ago and his 10900k was engaging all the threads as well
I think my 6700k is starting to seriously show its age lol.
This engine is just totally fxked, depending on your framerate settings it will have rendering bugs
i7-12700F 2.1 Ghz / 3070 what's the best fps cap? 120/120 felt the best to me but maybe there was input delay i wasn't noticing
This video was really informative, but do you know that's the deal behind micro stuttering in the game? I run an R5 3600 paired with an RX 5600 XT, most fps I can reach with low/high settings are 150, but there's a lot of micro stutter, the only solution was setting the minimum and target frame rate to 120fps running at 1080p 100% render resolution. I still get frame drops on some btb maps but overall is stable.
Do you have vsync on?
@@uh_ant Nope, I don't see it necessary since vsync is for when you have screen tearing.
@@DelliumM8 well yeah but even then if it is on it drops 1-2 frames ever couple seconds even if nothing is happening in game
343i ewally butchered the Halo engine Bungie made with Halo Infinite, this is probably due to trying to make it better support open worlds. The game looks awful, the TAA is so blurry and awful. Only super sampling helps it. Anyone playing under 4k has awful visuals
144 was near 100 same spot on solo bazaar on my 12700f. 3600c14, i see the 4090 helped too no? and could you elaborate on the input delay
Not really familiar with how this works, but would it be possible for Microsoft to modify slipspace to support SMT?
Yes. But that gets very complicated. They’ll likely have to drop the Xbox one (if you throw an SMT workload at a cpu that can’t use SMT (Xbox one is 8c/8t) then it just overloads and crumbles) and redo slipspace for SMT, or have two versions of the engine- one with SMT and one without, and do QA and development for both.
@@XLR8_LIVE I think it's ridiculous this game was released on old gen in the first place tbh
@@ash7626 for the time (originally 2020) next gen consoles were impossible to get and GPUs were still getting scalped at double the price. It was a choice that was unfortunately the right thing.
in the gdc presentation they said that they turned on SMT on series x but the clock speed was lower (3.6 GHz) vs SMT off (3.8 GHz) and they decided to turn it off
Do you have a preference of AMD or Intel?
I use both. Intel for my gaming PC, AMD for the streaming/production PC.
And this is why, the 60fps gang still reigns supreme
This was a great explanation! What would you tell someone who can’t afford an upgrade currently on the cpu (am on a 3800x, can’t swap motherboards rn but I have a decent b550). What would you recommend me to get in terms of ram instead as I would be able to afford that? Lower cas latency or higher frequency?
Save! Save your money. Don’t spend one or two hundred on new ram when you could save another 200 and get a 5800x3D and put it in the same motherboard :)
I currently have a rtx 3060 and 16gb of DDR4 ram. If you're saying 120-150fps would you say I should run 100-120fps in infinite to have a more clearer and smoother experience of the game?
I’m not sure where to put a 3060. Also depends on your CPU.
Would you recommend the ryzen 7900/7950x or i9 13900k for Halo Infinite comp? Most benchmarks I can find seem to favor Intel, but its hard to find a benchmark for 1080p low. (Most are 4k Ultra on campaign lol)
I will be releasing 1080p low benchmarks in a video later this month or early December between the 12700k, 13900k, and 7950x
@@XLR8_LIVE thank you!!!!!
do you disable multithreaded under nvidia control center? and what is your highest framerate to play on halo?
Great breakdown!
It's not a hyperthreading game. It was a choice due to xbox and series x, smt (hyperthreading) they decided not too for several reasons. A high powered 8 core would be much better than a powerful 16 core. Kinda sucks, but does well on xbox due to a lot of this
Running games at 1080 is far more cpu bound
An engine can't be built to NOT take advantage of SMT/HT. Software doesn't see the difference between logical and physical processors. Also, Hyperthreading has been on i7s on desktop for like 15 years. Also AMD cards aren't "not as powerful, but faster", that makes absolutely no sense. Nvidia drivers just have more CPU overhead
An engine absolutely can be built to purposefully not utilize SMT/HT. Infinite was purposefully designed that way. I’m not sure what else to tell you the proof is literally in the video you just watched. Infinite is restricted to 9 cores as the job scheduling system used to render the game suffers from demand overhead when pushed any farther. Rather than enabling HT/SMT and using 9 threads across 5 cores which would lead to immense additional bottlenecking, they disabled HT/SMT to provide the game 9 full cores for increased CPU throughput
Yes HT has been on desktops for quite awhile. That was an error I made while recording and didn’t realize it until after posting what I was saying. I was trying to convey about where average people (low to mid range) began to adopt capable processors
And it does make sense when it comes to power/speed. Radeon 6000 cards vs Nvidia 3000 cards sported lower overall throughput but benefited greatly across the board at lower resolutions due to their unique cache architecture and much high core clock speeds
@@XLR8_LIVE what? Games do not have the permissions required to turn off SMT, and as I said, software cannot tell the difference between the two. You didn't provide any proof that Infinite distinguishes between the two, only that it can only use up to 9 threads.
Secondly, if that's what you were trying to say, "less power, more speed" is simplifying it to the point of losing all meaning. Also, that's a massive assumption to make, especially since NVIDIA has a known problem with driver overhead with CPU intensive games.
I’ve been playing on Xbox one since halo infinite came out and I was saving up for a pc until I saw the price of GPU’s and was disappointed in halo infinite overall but I have recently started to play halo again and am researching to make a pc to play halo infinite at 120 fps or at least able to get the same performance that an Xbox series x can get. Do you have any recommendations for what CPU to get to pair with a solid GPU like the RTX 3080? Looking for something that can give decent performance but not the most expensive one out there
Learned a ton from watching this video by the way
12700k or better👍
Thanks to 343 there is never any positive news about Halo 😔
Is the ryzen 5800x a bust for this game?
paired with a 6800xt
you have parked cores lol.
Would recommend watching my newest CPU FIX video. A lot of info we had from 343 in the engine wasn’t correct. I was just going off of what was provided
LOL
Great vid? but do you know the reason for the game having input delay on pc and xbox at 60fps when using a batteries or a wired connection?