Though it does make you wonder where the Chaplains of the Blood Ravens are, it's their job to tend to the mental and spiritual health of their Battle Brothers.
@@nick0875 The Chapter has been corrupted for well over a decade at this point, the Chaplains are either dead, corrupted, or hopelessly outmatched in their spiritual war.
@@inwit594 Or Relic didn't bother with writing one because they aren't exactly the best with the lore. Which considering some of the stuff Black Library allows in their stories isn't a surprise.
@@nick0875 I don't think it's that hard to believe that a chapter led by a powerful psyker that's fallen to chaos for well over a decade would be capable of killing or subverting the chaplains of the chapter. There's at minimum eleven per chapter. Killing eleven people isn't that hard when your the leader of a thousand. Chaplains have been corrupted as well, y'know. There's nearly no winning this scenario if the very top of your command structure is actively working against you. Physically? Kyras is chapter master, he's got the best equipment in the chapter, and is likely older and stronger than most Chaplains. He's also a psyker, which is a gigantic advantage in every facet as well. A fight would lead to the chaplains death 9/10 times. Reputation and rank? Well, again, Kyras holds two of the most senior positions in the chapter. His respect is second to none. Even the word of a chaplain against his is going to fail, and accusing a chapter master of heresy and for whatever reason not having enough proof would get you exiled at best or executed for heresy yourself at worst. If a civil war happened (like it does in game) it'd be that chaplains company at best versus the entire remaining chapter. Mentally? Chaplains are usually exceptionally strong willed, but aren't known for their tactical acumen or their mastery of strategy beyond what is expected of a leading space marine. Kyras is a librarian, and thusly is pretty strong willed himself, but is also a chapter master, the very pinnacle of leadership and martial prowess in the chapter. His tactics and strategy would likely leave any chaplain second.
After all, Avitus was just an elite soldier and a veteran tormented by the horror he done. A soldier, created to fight in a war he became tired of. Beaten by guard when he was a child. Enlisted in the Blood Ravens. Fought in the Kronus campaign. Approched by Kyras and saw the truth about him and his chapter, didn't told it to the others. He spend all the years between this event and his death with this heavy burden, trying to stay loyal. At the end, he bacame too much for him, and he just broke. The way he help his former brothers, and hate chaos, he didn't want to join them, he even didn't except a victory in his final fight. It was a suicide, and he know it.
Avitus always struck me as wanting to die. Martellus betrays because he's bitter at being abandoned. Tarkus betrays out of a corruption of his sense of duty. Thaddeus betrays because he wanted to save his friends. Jonah betrays because he was possessed by a daemon. Cyrus betrays because he wishes to reform the chapter without incomptence leading them astray. But Avitus? He was shown the reality and he couldn't take it. He simply wants to die, and he engineers his own downfall so he can end his life on his own terms, screaming bloody defiance at an uncaring universe.
Agreed. Dawn of War 2's first two campaigns had a great design and story. Avitus' betrayal being foreshadowed in the first game was brilliant. Even more so, the blood raven's failures in soulstorm to retribution were all hinted at in dark crusade.
@@The_Meskhetian yeah, it says that the chapter's darkest times are ahead of it. And then we find it all out. Soulstorm saw nearly half the chapter's battle strength destroyed by Gorgutz and the others because of Boreal's incompetent leadership, along with hundreds of Aspirants. Then the Tyranids almost wipe out what is left of them, its all but confirmed that at the end of Dark Crusade, Davian discovered that the Blood Raven primarch was none other than *Magnus the Red* (and the Blood Ravens are a loyalist faction of the thousand sons, which Davian would understandably be terrified of the Inquisition finding out about *right after* they investigated the whole "okay, what the hell happened in this blue on blue incident on Kronus?") And everything else.
Avitus fell victim to the true depths and nihilism presented by Khornate corruption. The overwhelming despair in the face of the galaxy wide Meat Grinder humanity has become; every soul spilling blood for little more than blood's sake. He does not praise Khorne for he likely knows not even the name of that blasted thing upon its throne of skulls. However he saw that in his actions alongside Kyras he served them all the same in spite of his devotion to the emperor.
Effectively Suicide is what he is committing, he made a last stand NOT against Chaos, Xenos, or Loyalists, but against the very uncaring universe itself...
"Tarkus- Do you remember when chapter master Kyras came to Kronus, after the final victory?" That doesn't sound like Avitus. He sounds too cal- "YOU SHOULD YOU BLIND FOOL!!!" There he is.
This mission was the most emotional of them all for me. Avitus was an interesting case- a Space Marine who'd actually been broken by war and all the trauma. It seems ironic that the cynic of the bunch turned out to be the most human- to me, anyway.
Avitus: "Someday you will see through all the lies... and then the dead... will come for you as well..." Tarkus: "No man died in His service that died in vain." *STFU AVITUS* Avitus: "S-spare us your empty platitudes! It matters not who lives and dies... blood is shed as it has always been... There is nothing else in this forsaken... existence..." Tarkus: "In the grim darkness of the far future, THERE IS ONLY WAR. Or did you not already know that... Brother?"
The worst part about living in the 40k universe would be being subjected to the whims of a evil force much more sinister than all the dark gods, GW writers.
The ultimate result of a galaxy without hope. One of the founding members of Delta Force, Lt. General William Boykin was second in command of the disaster in Somalia the movie Black Hawk Down was based on. And being a christian, he said the hardest burden he ever saw was seeing these brave soldiers die and suffer for an avoidable accident like a helicopter crash. And watching these boys bleed his heart sank into despair and he said to himself, "There is no God." And for the first time in his life he heard a voice in his heart, "If there is no God, there is no hope." Tarkus' last comfort to Avitus is more sincere than we realise, because a meaningless death confirms a meaningless existance, but no death is ever in vain. Be it a fictional event here in putting a broken heart to rest, or even real history in this disaster showing the world the price of freedom even today. It all points back to the one death Boykin should have remembered more than any of his men. The one death that made all life worth meaning. Jesus Christ. Avitus lived and died in vainity because the reality of a godless existance finally set in. Luckily we don't live in that kind of world.
We do live in a world devoid of hope, Regardless if God exists or not there is no free will. Because you are never free of internal and external influences. Whether your dancing to God's tune because everything is preordained and nothing is done without his will or because we are always influenced by one or more world group, event, self needs, etc. Our world lacks free will and thus any true power to affect the universe.
outlawstar15a2 Golden Throne. And I thought Avitus' logic was hopeless. Just because there seems no reason for things to have a purpose doesn't make it so. I guess for both of your cases it's a matter of who you see God as. Avitus gave up hope because those who represented their only hope, the Emperor, were abandoning them. Avitus saw those who represented the Emperor as self serving cowards and gave up. If you see God as a tyrant who only wants to take all our fun away then I can't stop you from exercising the free will He gave you to deny there is any free will. But I do have the courage to tell you you're both wrong. Just like Avitus made what seemed like the only rational option to him by betraying the last truth humanity had to survive, it would only be another 10 years before the very thing that drove him to darkness and death would be destroyed. The same is true for us. The enemy constantly wants us to believe a lie. God isn't good, God isn't fair, God isn't real. Even people who call themselves Christian do it for their own gain instead of His glory and end up setting the examples of Him just like Diometes set for Avitus on a true servant of the Emperor. The difference between Jesus and the Emperor is that when the Emperor stayed on his throne to continue to fight and fail against the powers that would undo us for 10,000 years, Jesus rose in a moment of recorded history proving Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzzentch, Nurgle, and our real enemy, Death, were defeated forever. But it only gives you hope if you stand with Him. If you see one man overcame death, you can say good for Him, the rest of us still are human and doomed to slavery to our self destructive nature and the like. But if that same Man offers you the same life that overcame Death, and the Enemy of mankind itself, freely as a gift. I say yes in a heartbeat knowing His heart wasn't to control me, but to love me. A video game set on Hard has more than it's share of dead ends, and we shouldn't complain when we make mistakes. We can only follow the example of the man who beat the game before. A world without God is a world without hope. That's why God came down personally to prove we weren't forgotten like Avitus felt. If you wish to curse me and discount my points with more hopelessness, then I won't stop you, I won't even argue. I'm just offering the same hope that saved my life. A gift can be refused. I hope you don't.
***** You didn't read my whole thing. After I said regardless if you believe in God there's no hope because there's no free will. Because your choices are never truly yours, because your never free of internal or external influences when the choice is rendered. And because of that you have no real control of the world around you. That has nothing to do with God. This problem is compounded by the fact we live in a Crapsack World (hence the source of the despair) with Human society having a natural tendency towards bad things and a lack of real power to affect change. I probably didn't word it completely. 1.) Free Will is a logical contradiction. 2.) Human society is a Crapsack World that tends towards bad attritbutes. 3.) Without Free Will Humans can't deal with #2 4.) Thus the reason for Hopelessness in our world due to the fact Humanity is stuck in a Crapsack cycle.
outlawstar15a2 And the reason I clarified was because you left hope out of the equation entirely. Jesus Himself said things will continue to get worse, and that is continuing to be proven day by day. But He also said that things will be set right and it will stay that way. He's been proven right so far. That's hope. You can't have hope without being in a bad situation, otherwise you'd have no reason to desire a better reality. Jesus is allowing us to see a world without Him because it shows us a bigger problem. Wiether we live or die happy on this earth, we still have to answer to Him as contributors to corrupting His creation. That's what Jesus died to save us from and why He is the only way. It's the only fair way and that hope is a reason to keep fighting, even when things seem empty and dead. Look at the pregnant woman in Sudan who is being set up by her government to be hanged for marrying a Christian man years after the fact that her father, who abandoned her family while they were children, was Muslim. So legally they consider her Muslim and are executing her for Apostasy? It's a lousy world to be sure, even more to the shock that World Wars were perfectly justified to be started over much less, yet the US, UN, and any sane country left does nothing. It only makes sense when you realise this woman has a Savior who went through everything she is about to and more because He loves her. And the same for you and I. We have hope because even when this world's cycle takes everything away from us, we dont' need to be afraid, because the one who holds our soul already overcame all of it. That's the point of hope. It's a dark world, but we aren't alone. We suffer, but God suffered first, and suffered more than anyone. He understands our pain and that's why we call Him Lord. He's the only one with experience on the mattter. We may as well listen to Him on how to get through it.
@@HunnysPlaylists Avitus is not a solipsistic character. He is a particularly traumatised kind of nihilist. He sees the endless soul grinding war of 10,000 years and it breaks him. Concepts of brotherhood or duty thrown into the grinder and reduced to pulped meat and shattered bone because the truth is the reality he lives in expects him to fight for an uncaring master against endless monsters until he dies and it’s the same for every single one of his kin. Either you can take solace in an enduring legacy (The flesh is weak but deeds endure.) or surrender to the grim darkness where there is only war and the laughter of thirsting gods because this galaxy won’t let it be any other way.
I just realized: Avitus contradicts himself in his last words. His whole reason for turning to Chaos was because the guilt over everyone he'd killed for the Imperium was eating away at him, but he says that it doesn't matter who lives and dies, when people dying is the very reason he turned traitor.
@Pitalla no its canon,tarkus speaks of a friend from kronus which betrayed him after being called by kyras.he despared and betrayed them to the black legion.the charaters are the same regardless of chaos rising
Basically either Tarkus, Avitus, Cyrus, Jonas and Thaddeus can turn on you but it all boils down to which one of them is the most corrupted. If none of them are corrupted by the corruption level by default Martellus will betray you. Davian Thule is the only one of your allies that cannot turn on you as he's a dreadnought and immune to corruption. So overall you have 6 potential outcomes for who turns on you; hope that clears it all up :)
and you might think, "hey diomedes wasn't sure if kyras was a traitor, maybe martellus survived somehow and is spying for him", but then cyrus comes along and he's like "oh hey martellus, how's it hangin' buddy?" and you're like "what the fuck?!"
@BigDickCheney If you think about it, it makes sense that he doesn't come along. Giant walkers with autocannons, flamers and claws belching smoke out of their rears aren't known for their stealth, which this mission is supposed to be about before meeting the traitor :P
@MoneyR8 whichever squad has the highest corruption is the traitor, but Avitus' betrayal is canon. if none of your squads are corrupt then martellus will be the traitor
but doesn't tarkus say in retribution that the traitor was involved in the chronus campaign? so that limits it to tarkus (who is revealed to be loyal) davian (who almost died defending the chapter and became a (venerable) dreadnought( and avitus (who they frequently mention he fought on chronus throughout dow2, which i interpreted as hints towards him being the traitor) thaddeus and the force commander may have been there as well but it was never confirmed or even mentioned
There are different variables that cause a brother to be a traitor. The main is how much pure they are which the game measures by pure/corruption scale. It is affect by completing pure/corruption objectives which the mission detail in the briefing. Also, using corrupted war gear will help add corruption points to a brother when equipped. The brother who has most corruption will be pick to be the traitor. If all brothers are corrupted, I forgot how game determined it but I think it’s who was corrupted first or something like that. If all brothers remain pure, the game will use the Techmarine Martellus as the traitor in that condition.
@@thomastelson5444 That makes sense. I hate the game myself but I love the story. Damn W40k does a good job. The games may be different and so are your tastes but the lore unites us all. Thank you Brother you've done this humble citizen of the Empire a service. I appreciate it. If you ever wanted to play swtor some time feel free 🙂
Avitus was one of my personal favourite and the best soldier I've ever commanded. Permanently gone.... and in retribution what happened to Thaddeus and Thule?
I actually liked some of Corruption benefits so I intentionally allowed one of my favorite squads, Avitus, to get corrupted. This mission was such a bitch...
@Cenkic Expect his soul to be devoured by a Bloodthirster in the first few seconds of emerging in the Warp and tortured forever. Just goes to show - WH40K is one sad place.
Avitus being the traitor if all your squads are pure would've made more sense. Afterall, in battles Avitus did seem to have a bloodlust, so therefore..... Martellus being the default traitor was stupid. He was the one who told space marines to go to the Judgement of Carrion to uncover the coding rights to unscramble the voice! FAIL.
Faith And Truth are real things; what made avitus go mad is that he found out avitus is a lie. this is why sneering teens identify with him so much, they want to hold onto their pride that they are "like gods." pain and humiliation both refute pride conclusively, therefore the madness. they would rather d1e than have Humility. they would rather d1e than get rid of their s1n. This, my friends, is called hll.
Where's the humility in learning that you killed dozens of innocent men just doing their duty at the behest of a satanic wizard empowered by very real deities?
@@fahholliday5374 though you emote otherwise by fear, the dvl is a d4d, dmnd, created, contingent being; authorityless, powerless. nothing to give you, no awareness. nothing to offer, no power for himself let alone to give you whom he htes & wants d4d and dmnd like he is.
@@fahholliday5374 your worship of evl is by fear of evl: you begin with with capital s1n of prde, opening yourself up to all s1n, d4th, dlsion, etc. by the slf-dstrctive act of believing you've taken Divine Will for yourself by wishful thinking; you hold this as absolute.
@@MrCouchmen if Avitus just waited a little more his nihilism may have been cured by these new events. Or worsed (the whole eldar thing is... well...).
+Ninja7546 yea i tried it with him cuz i thought it would be cool, cuz he's the young one i thought his betrayal could be like an Anakin Skywalker haha and it starts off well but in the final battle theres no speech. barely any lines at all then just dies
+Ninja7546 Thaddeus was young. Aviitus is only one who hates everyone beyond Blood Ravens (including Imperial Guard, even loyal) and the only one who find bloodlust main target. Only one thing is that he should be rather Khorn worshiper not Nurgle.
+thetopherhaslanded Yes. There are more clues than people says. Main one in the internet is that Avitus was the only one on Kronus who could possibly be traitor (as we have to exclude Cyrus, Trakus and Thule). But beyond that there are 3 more: 1. Avitus is probably the only one (I didn't saw all options) who talk so much during mission against traitor and after it. 2. Avitus' bloodlust 3. Avitus is the only one Sergant who advices Force Commander to do something corrupting (destroying Angels Gate to get access more easily)
Tarkus was deeply hurt by this betrayal. In Retribution he reveals that he had to kill Avitus when he brings Apollo Diomedes out of his despair and even in the final battle against demon ascending Kyras, he shouts "For those who have fallen! For those who cannot be redeemed!".
Avitus did not fall to Chaos in the way his brothers might have understood it, instead he fell to the truth. He saw the galaxy for what it was once stripped of the comforting veneer of morality and higher purpose ingrained into him as a Space Marine; understood what it meant and could not stomach it. This makes Avitus a notable example of a 40k character becoming "self-aware". It isn't his love of violence or any lust for power or the corruption of Kyras that turns him traitor, but a sudden awareness of the galaxy in the way we as spectators understand: it is a hopeless meat grinder, and nothing more the setting exists for violence alone, for our pleasure. Avitus had been grappling with this doubt since the events of Victory Bay in Dark Crusade, and Kyras' cavorting with Eliphas pushes him over the edge. When he betrays the Imperium, it isn't because he suddenly hates it or his brothers or suddenly loves Khorne, but because of his new perspective. When Avitus betrays the Imperium, it is because he is a proud man with nothing left to ever take pride in again. Where he once held conviction he was only left with a death wish and he sought his demise in the only way he could ever respect it: amidst the heat of battle, in blood and fire, where the raging dead can be drowned out under the roar of bolter fire. In the end, Avitus died staging his last stand not against the alien, heretic, or loyalists, but against the whole cruel, uncaring universe.
I honestly hope they make a live action or incredibly good CGI movie for Chaos Rising one day, this being the absolute most important scene where you'd have Tarkus kneeling towards Avitus in an attempt to comfort his dieing brother. "No man that died in his service died in vain" Avitus grabs Tarkus by the collar and pulls him closer with blood forming at the edges of his mouth, this orchestra soundtrack playing "Spare us your EMPTY PLATITUDES" blood spittles on Tarkus' wrinkled emotionless face as he fights back his own tears and regret. Avitus pushes Tarkus, leans back onto the cold snow, blood reddening the snow around his armor, he gives his last dieing words in this speech, tears forming in his eyes, looking up into the sky and says "there is nothing else in this forsaken existence"as the camera pans higher and away from Avitus to represent his final moments of true acceptance of his fate, this is by far would be the most heartbreaking moment in almost any video game or movie in my opinion because Avitus tells the most horrific truth of all, that life itself is pain.
@@GeneralCreed We're getting something with the Blood Angels soon so it might have something akin to that though it's more about them dealing with their Black Rage.
@C.S.E United Europe well, the story was interesting though. But yes, it was pure heresy. I wonder if they would come up with a new dawn of war game that is based on blood ravens' history, such as the Secrets of Kronus.
Avitus was the most touching, because he isn't wrong in what he says. He despairs, he has lost hope, in a universe where he has been little else than a tool all his life. Everything he has done, everything he is, was a lie. When he learned, he knew he had nothing left.
He rages moreso than most Marines but that only meant he was far more susceptible to emotion than the rest...So that truth, that there is never ending war in an uncaring universe, broke him.
@@Negativvv The Emperor? A broken shell of a thing that is a shadow of its former self. An entity transformed into an object of worship against its will, and who can do nothing but cling to what scraps of life remain because its all it can do to atone for its failures. An entity that was once so simultaneously *perfect* and so disconnected from the very beings it was created to protect because of that perfection that it cannot see the flaws in its plans or logic... the Emperor lied. The Emperor failed. But that doesn't mean that the Emperor's ideals of a Humanity united by reason, loyalty to one another, and a common purpose are lies. Let us hope that Guilliman can succeed in pulling the wretched, decrepit corpse of the Imperium back from the brink, and transform it into something better. If nothing else, he at least should be able to learn from his father's mistakes...
Well it *is* dark. Really, really dark. Enough that some people lose interest in it because it's *too damn dark* for them. I'm sometimes surprised more characters don't go crazy realising what their universe means.
@@HunnysPlaylists Buddy, if you want to cosplay as a missionary you should go and actually pursue that life. Proselytizing in random videos' comment sections on the internet will never get you results.
@@fahholliday5374 Venerable Fulton Sheen: “Conscience, Christ, and the gift of faith make evil men uneasy in their sin. They feel that if they could drive Christ from the earth, they would be free from “moral inhibitions.” They forget that it is their own nature and conscience which makes them feel that way. Being unable to drive God from the heavens, they would drive his ambassadors from the earth. In a lesser sphere, that is why many men sneer at virtue-because it makes vice uncomfortable.”
"some day, you will see through all the lies. And then the dead will come for you as well". if you know about the plot of DoW, that is probably the best line in the history of ever.
"And then the dead will come for you as well." That should be reserved for Gabriel Angelos, about Cyrene, you know, the planet wich he called the Inquisition and exterminatus'd the living shit out of it? And he's pretty much considered the only remaining survivor from there.
Phoenix Fire So being responsible for the destruction of your own home planet, and the death of your entire family, (which he killed his father), isn't bad? Avitus killed IG on Kronus, Gabriel "technically" killed innocent people, women, children,disabled, etc. and the planet itself.
When I played, I received "Full Purity" position and I thought, that Martellus was betrayer. But I felt so sadly, when knew, that Avitus is canonicity betrayer... He was my almost favorite character in Dawn of War II. Rest in peace, brother.
It does make the most sense. Avitus realizes there is no honor or glory after what Kyrus had shown him, and knows that death is the only truth in the galaxy. He essentially developed space PTSD after a lifetime of war and became a deathseeker. Kyrus revels in the pointlessness of it all, and Avitus was just a broken man.
Yeah, I guess Retribution made it clear who the canon traitor really was because people figured out that Tarkus was referring to Avitus when he told the story about having to kill one of his friends who turned traitor, but until Retribution came out, it was kinda up in the air. I was pretty convinced it was Martellus, just because 1) the whole story about him losing hope and turning to chaos when he felt like he'd been abandoned on Typhon made a lot of sense to me 2) he's just an NPC in the first couple of DoW2 games, so it's less likely any players would've been too attached to him (which would've made him a "disposable" character) and 3) when you have him as the traitor in a playthrough, he's pretty convincing (screaming praises to Khorne the whole time, murdering the shit out of everything in sight with his tank, etc).
@@cid2852 And to be honest, Martellus as the betrayer makes no sense. Considering the only reason you manage to unmask the betrayer at all is because Martellus helps you at certain points. You'd have never found the Judgment of Carrion if not for him, along with several other instances where he is instrumental in breaking the coded vox transmissions that ultimately reveal the traitor's identity.
You know, I've been thinking... Avitus hates the Imperial Guard, right ? In the fluff, it is because when he was young, a PDF regiment committed pillages in his natal village. But what if his hate against the IG, as we see it, was far more complex ? After all, even if the description in DoW2 says he deeply hates the IG, he just appear to be annoyed by them from time to time, like when he declares we "Baby-sit them at the first occasion"... What if Avitus actually felt sorry for the Guard and for the guardsmen he had to kill in Victory Bay ? What if he really hated the IG for his young days, but then started to actually empathy them after having discovered that all the soldiers he had killed were actually innocent ?
It could be that, coupled with the guilt of killing innocent and loyal servants of the Emperor, that triggered his doubts. And, of course, Kyras was able to capitalize and act on that to gradually mould Avitus.
+TomZanovich You may be right, Avitus seemed like he was filled with regret through the entire campaign. He seemed like he was going to snap at any point.
The hundreds of thousands of individual men and women he'd watched commit terrible deeds by the orders of the so-called holy servants of the Emperor. The hundreds of thousands of individual men and women he'd mowed down like grass in Victory Bay, pushed forward to bleed and die for the sake of bleeding and dying, and so much as asking why is met with a bullet to the face courtesy of your own leaders. Avitus couldn't hold onto his sanity long enough to reach a condemnation of the corrupt, greedy, self-appointed leaders of mankind. He broke, and faced his doom in despair at the senseless, hopeless, endless slaughter and agony of life in the Imperium of Man. It was not daemons or sorcery, nor even weapons which destroyed Avitus. He was destroyed by the cruel indifference and unspeakable malice of mankind itself. I'm sorry, Avitus. I'm sorry you had to see so much.
Well actually, in the fluff, the Blood Ravens never fought the IG on Kronus . Once they arrived on Kronus, they asked them to left the planet and they did .
Jacob Sailer I still don't understand one thing. Why was Kyras still a chapter master after everything he did? I mean, sure he tried to hide everything, but why was Avitus the only one who rose up before Retribution? Kyras was showing signs of corruption even before.
***** By retribution most of the chapter was either declared renegades since they found out the truth or had been corrupted by Kyras. He only kept proud fools like Apollo Diomedes (who'd be unable to work out the truth) in high positions to maintain the illusion while the corrupted like Apothecary Galan were maneuvered into positions of power where they'd corrupt their underlings and so on. Doesn't help that Space marines have an almost blind loyalty to their Chapter masters which reduces any rebellious elements and the ability to instantly declare anyone who could expose him a renegade to be hunted down and slain means it wasn't too hard for Kyras to get away with his actions. His reputation as a hero for defeating Ulkair and saving the 5th company from the Space hulk Judgment of Carrion only aided his "reliability".
It's ironic that the coldest, most ruthless, and vengeful brother was also the most human. For he, unlike so many other astartes, suffered guilt and remorse to the point of despair, which drove him to treachery. A truly tragic character.
Avitus talking about lies reminds me of Eliphas in Dark Crusade. Admittedly he was talking to Thule but it reminds me of the exchange at the beginning of the Chaos Stronghold. “Welcome Captain. Have you seen the truth at last?” “I won’t listen to your lies heretic!” “Then I won’t lie to you brother. You’ve been lied to enough.”
@@HunnysPlaylists Is it a lie when chaos gnaws at the heart of the chapter and it’s forgotten history? The aftermath of Dark Crusade implies as much while the events of Chaos Rising and Retribution quite clearly depict it. After all, why lie when the truth cuts far deeper.
@@HunnysPlaylists In theory. But that is not common knowledge in universe, in fact it was pointedly kept under wraps. Another theory is a loyalist Word Bearer’s chapter, I personally prefer that one. (Makes more sense for condemning Blood Ravens relics to be on Kronus and Eliphas’ particular quirk of referring to them as ‘Brothers’ rather than ‘Cousins’.) The point being nobody but a handful know the truth, and those who did destroyed all traces of it and refuse to speak of it.
I actually like this betrayal more than the others since Avitus is kinda the most loyal "Traitor" out of the squad (ok, Jonah doesn't really count since he was possessed, just saying) since he gave the most information about the corruption in the chapter. I also like how he talked about Kronus since it was really cool how they put Avitus and Tarkus in the Dark Crusade story, despite not actually being in the game as separate characters.
He was also the sanest traitor out there: Thaddeus actually trusted a daemon (not a very sane thing to do), Martellus transformed into a batshit crazy Chaos fanatic, Cyrus went ow the edge with his paranoia and Tarkus simly reached "Arthas with Frostmourne sword"-insane levels with his daemon bolter thing. And yeah, Jonah was posessed after becoming a Sorcerer by another name. Avitus - not so much, he just grew there of constant lies, dishonor and pointless bloodshed.
Avitus in truth was most sensitive soul of them all. He hated his foes with all his hearth for that they represented and that they had done to humanity and thus, he allowed himself to be consuming by his righteous fury. Problems begun to arise then he was pitted against his fellow humans. He couldn't handle the pain of their betrayal. The very fact that he is forced to kill his fellow humans made him to retreat to his shelter, fury and eventually, rage. Further events had shattered his trust in everything. He had seen rot in the Imperium and most importantly, in his own chapter and battle brothers and it was just too much for him to handle. He fell into depression and self-blaming from which his nihilistic nature was born. His act of heresy was in some way meant to open eyes of his brothers. To say no, to all lies that he is being told. To show cold, hard truth to himself and others. I pity him, his lines: "Only the fury of battle can silence the dead" "It's all that remains, blood and fury" "Faith is a lie, truth is a lie" Shows great pain and emptiness in his hearths. Most importantly, it shows that he cares about innocent who he had killed by following lies of his corrupted battle commanders. He chose to retreat to his shelter, fury, in order to have his peace even if it only means a short escape from his consciousness.
BlackDeathViral03 lies and blasphemy! do you think victory bay was in service to the imperium? guardsmen lost on Kaurava? the heresies of the chaos rising? they where no heretics, no traitors, no xeno's no they where good honest Imperial serving the emperor and they killed them they killed them all. no the blood ravens are the traitors and Avitus was the true hero, using the strength of his character, and the strength of man to seek vengeance against those traitors for "THIS IS ALL THAT REMAINS OF THE BLOOD RAVENS BLOOD AND FURY!" cowards and traitors all! their chapter should be stricken from imperial record and their heretical and traitorous bodies destroyed to the very last molecule...for the emperor and the emperors mercy!
Thomas Duponti You forget, Brother... Not ALL who serve the Blood Ravens are traitors. None could have predicted that Chapter Master Kyras would be a traitor to the Emperor.
Hanzzo Ezekiel Don't besmirch my station with your title. I am a commissar of the Imperium I led man to greater glory in the emperors name. you merely lie and kill and lie and kill. your chapter has always been tainted by the weakness of the traitor legions. you have no holy ground to hide behind here. your chapter from its inception was doomed to turn from the light of the emperor. yet the imperium would stay their hand and keep you in its service. that I will accept, but I will never forget what I saw in Sub-sector Aurelia. pray to your dark gods that our paths may never cross for all that would keep me from destroying you is your usefulness to the Imperium.
Avitus reminds me a lot of Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, what with his turn towards extreme methods, his disillusionment with the blind self-righteousness of his faction, and his eventual suicide-by-cop. You can totally see Avitus saying "You can kill me, you have that right, but you have no right to judge me".
Avitus: Get Back! Jonah: I am already in motion! Lol talk about perfect timing for the command lines :) Oh and Cyrus: Missile Barrage! Ha he totally said that a little too late; the missiles had already hit :D
This is likely the canon betrayal. Martellus, Tarkus, Jonah, and Cyrus are all with Diomedes in Retribution, which leaves Thaddeus and Avitus the most likely traitors. But Tarkus takes Avitus's betrayal much harder, which makes more sense for Tarkus to become the Ancient.
+Professor Sponge It IS avitus. They mention that Thaddeus is on a crusade with the force commander, and Tarkus says he served on Kronus with the traitor. Only Avitus served on Kronus with Tarkus (excluding davian thule).
GreenskinHolland I did notice that when I replayed it after Chaos Rising. that leaves the question of what happened to the Force Commander... not that he was really a character but his fate is unknown.
+Professor Sponge He was aperantly Exiled for 100 year to the Eye,from what i read/heard which could also double as a crusade against chaos if Thaddeus is with him.
They still died. They just die. To rationalize it with, as Tarkus said, empty platitudes, is an insult. 'It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.' -Johan Huizinga
It's amazing how each and every Blood Raven remains loyal somehow. Avitus calling each and every Black Legion soldier a dog, scum. Tarkus murdering a horde of Chaos soldiers with his Bolter. Thaddeus doing it to save the chapter from the Tyranids and his brothers from the Warp. Only killing in self defense. Cyrus may have been the only true traitor, along with Martellus. And that's simply because he didn't call them scum at every corner. Among other things. Even he wanted to correct everything. Strange, the so called treasonous Blood Raven rarely praised the Chaos Gods and tormented the Emperor, it was almost always with good intentions, never simply a lack of faith, the choice of heresy was not simply falling to Chaos. It was escaping the lies of the Chapter, and assisting his brothers to destroy the Chaos threat within the Chapter. And even the blind zealots like Space Marines could see that, a true testament to faith.
Sadly more than a few marines go chaos after realizing the mistakes and follys of the Imperium. Why couldnt the Imperial Guard on Kaurava simply join forces with the marines to retake the planet? Because the marines wanted to keep everyone out for their own secrets, worse, they killed them because of it. Its easy to see how that would weigh on anyones conscience
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." - The moment they accepted Chaos in this way or another they lost. Isnt this the main reason of Horus Heresy? Horus and his lot also wanted do something good for the mankind, but since they wanted use the power of Chaos for that (which it is ALWAYS working the other way around - You are not in control. You are just a bitch of Chaos. A puppet of the Dark Gods) they just fucked up everything.
Wyczesany Bóbr Thank First Chaplain Erebus and his legion, the Word Bearers, for the Horus Heresy - they were the ones who orchestrated Horus' fall and betrayal, and the rest is history. AFAIK, the only Legion that actually thought the Warp could be used for good were the Thousand Sons, and first they got a public and humiliating dressing-down from the Emperor, then got their home planet burned by the Space Wolves. Is it any wonder that so many Primarchs sided with Horus?
Do not forget Jonah, who was possessed by a daemon, and even in the end the entity couldn't unleash all his power due to the Librarian resistance and will, helping the rest of Blood Ravens to kill it.
2:23 that was the drop that made the glass spill for Avitus Everything else could be chalked up to outside influences and/or plans beyond the wisdom of a simple veteran sergeant, but to hear the Chapter-Master himself talk about not using a known Champion of Chaos as an asset, but using one Avitus had probably helped in evicting from the blood-soaked ground of the Deimos Peninsula, spilled from the thousands of innocents sacrificed to Khorne. His world turned upside down: loyal servants of the Emperor were mindlessly gunned down by their kin, and their charges slaughtered for nothing in Victory Bay, under the watchful eyes of one who always was from the beginning a servant of the Chaos Gods; and this, while those that they were sent to Kronus to eradicate completely like Eliphas escaped retribution entirely to once again turn them against one another. Yeah, if I just realized I participated to a mass sacrifice that us puny earthling would classify as a global genocide for simply no reason I'd start planning to bite the bullet too.
I think ultimately, Avitus was closest to Khorne, and left unchecked, he would have become a devout worshiper of Khorne. He is disillusioned with his chapter, a corrupted symbol of holiness and honor; he is disgusted by the deceit and dishonor that surrounds him, and furthermore, he uses violence as an escape. Much like how Angron and the World Eaters grew disgusted by the hypocrisy and corruption of the Imperium as a whole. Now, like a true Khornate Berserker, Avitus seeks only to die bloody and thrashing on the battlefield, crying out in defiance against a cold, cruel, uncaring universe.
Is it similar to Kharn? I know it is similar to a fanfic version of Kharn where he is tired of his friend and lover lying to him and got him subjected to Ahriman.
Goodbye Avitus. You saw so much of the suffering in the bleak world of the 41st millenium, saw the rot and shit in the dark places of the Imperium, saw the reality of the times you were in. Its interesting how he knows he's probably going to lose, knows his former brothers are coming after him, and he doesn't run. He wanted it to end. In a way it reminds me of Talos of the Night Lords novel. He knows the Imperium is rotten in many places and knows that what he does is also rotten and evil, and knows the Imperium will come for them eventually, though it wasn't quite the Imperium that he fought in the end. Of all the fictional universes, 40K is one of the most if not the most grim.
Out of all betrayal (except Jonas), avitus still have the same mind all this time. He doesn't "join" The black legion, he never say our troops but your troops to any of the black legion, not to mention all the slur he hurl to the black legion while referring to his old comrade as brothers. Idk maybe I'm just too sad to see a guy like avitus really has the mind to kill his own comrades.
It wasn't just about his Chapter's honor, his honor aswell and to him he already lost it a long time ago. No matter what could happen, the dead already came for him...
WOW and HOW!?! This dialogue is way better than the regular dawn of war 2 campaign, I'd almost say its as good as the first campaign from the first dawn of war game!
It's kinda interesting. Two 40k games with two grizzled old veteran characters. IF this is your ending Chaos Rising then they contrast very differently both in personality and fate. Sidonis from Space Marine is a Grizzled Veteran but comes across as wise and even cheerful with phrases like "Clever of the Damned Orcs". His tone helps to convey. He died from being impaled by a chaos lord Avitus meanwhile is cynical, gruff and nihilistic. He is angry with his work and life and treats other people similarly. He died because all this cynicism and nihilism finally caused him to abandon what principles he had left and died a traitor. One died loyal, Another died a traitor. One died hopeful, One died Cynical. Both Veterans.
That's because Chaos Rising had actual complex characters who reacted to their horrible situations in human and realistic ways, whereas Space Marine had stock soldier archetypes because its an empty power fantasy
@@alisonpurgatory85 that's literally how ultra marines are lol and pls there is nothing complex about almost the cast in this game dude in question qas the same bull headed brute the whole time even in the first game. Traitor ending just out of nowhere where gives him face
On the one hand... Avitus is right. The Galaxy is just a game board for the Chaos Gods that has been allowed to exist because they don't want to get bored, but on the other... It's not like it took much for him to really fall. For Avitus, there was always that chance. It's sad really.
5:03 it's funny how we all enjoy the dark grittyness of the w40k universe and the lies of the imperium and accept them as the only choice. It amuses us. But truth is, not one of us would ever want to live in this world. No matter how powerful or strong we would be in that world. Avitus just showed us that the world of W40k is shitty and no matter how much we enjoy it, such a universe would be a curse to us.
I don't really rewatch this video, I relisten it. The music, the writing of the lines and their delivery, the unit quotes and sounds of battlefield and how all of that meshes together - it's all just so delicious.
'Geeeeeet BACK!' 'I am already in motion!' 'This is all that remains! Blood and fury!' 'Answer their attacks with holy fury, brothers!' Lovely coincidental match ups of the scripted and in-game dialogue
Through out the game, I never liked Avitus but I did respect him. That changed with his betrayal. It was then that I finally understood what he had become; of all the horrors he'd been called upon to do and of how his conscience was tested by his loyalty to the chapter. His final words haunted me. Made me think of the soldiers within the Wehrmacht (not the SS) who found their conscience sacrificed in committing loyalty to the Fatherland. "It matters not who lives or dies, blood is shed. There is nothing else in this forsaken existence."
+Jacob Sailer SS are just like a lot of soldiers in the war. The war is the truth about our world. And those who come to face it will always lose their innocence. You may go to war for the good reasons, fighting may be the right choice, but doing it is never a right thing, no matter who is the ennemy, they will do horrible things, kill, and destroy lives. That's worse for the peoples who are very young or forced to do it at a young age, because they didn't even have a choice. For them, it can become natural. For nazis, they are way more philosophicaly complicated than Avitus, they hated the State, but loved their people (this lead to a huge, violent and bloody political competition within the Reich, and it made it surprisingly very strong). Hated Christianity, hated Jews (and their religion too, by the way), and they didn't even like themselves, they really thought Aryans were the best for mankind (even better than them) and tried to make them to the top of the specie. They were totally delusional (lost the World war, their pride, lived poorly for 2 decades...) to the point it became a part of them, and they naturally spead it to the whole society. At this point, good and evil become shades of grey, and killing millions is not a big deal.
This video made me main loyalist factions After seeing what realization of 40k reality can do to human, I start to respect Emperor even more. He is an ultimate antivillain, that suffers immense struggle and forced to commit millions of atrocities, to protect mankind from most terrible of truths in the Galaxy
Can you imagine if the Force Commander was the traitor? Tarkus: 'It was you, the Force Commander. How could you do this?!' FC: '...' Martellus: 'The Force Commander left us this message before retreating to the planet.' Message: '...' Avitus: 'Any last words, heretic?' FC: '...bacon.' Would be quite the entertaining scene.
A Space Marine with PTSD and excellently handled at that. Good job to the devs!
A shame DoW3 couldn't have this caliber of writing and character arc(s).
Though it does make you wonder where the Chaplains of the Blood Ravens are, it's their job to tend to the mental and spiritual health of their Battle Brothers.
@@nick0875 The Chapter has been corrupted for well over a decade at this point, the Chaplains are either dead, corrupted, or hopelessly outmatched in their spiritual war.
@@inwit594 Or Relic didn't bother with writing one because they aren't exactly the best with the lore. Which considering some of the stuff Black Library allows in their stories isn't a surprise.
@@nick0875 I don't think it's that hard to believe that a chapter led by a powerful psyker that's fallen to chaos for well over a decade would be capable of killing or subverting the chaplains of the chapter. There's at minimum eleven per chapter. Killing eleven people isn't that hard when your the leader of a thousand. Chaplains have been corrupted as well, y'know.
There's nearly no winning this scenario if the very top of your command structure is actively working against you. Physically? Kyras is chapter master, he's got the best equipment in the chapter, and is likely older and stronger than most Chaplains. He's also a psyker, which is a gigantic advantage in every facet as well. A fight would lead to the chaplains death 9/10 times.
Reputation and rank? Well, again, Kyras holds two of the most senior positions in the chapter. His respect is second to none. Even the word of a chaplain against his is going to fail, and accusing a chapter master of heresy and for whatever reason not having enough proof would get you exiled at best or executed for heresy yourself at worst. If a civil war happened (like it does in game) it'd be that chaplains company at best versus the entire remaining chapter.
Mentally? Chaplains are usually exceptionally strong willed, but aren't known for their tactical acumen or their mastery of strategy beyond what is expected of a leading space marine. Kyras is a librarian, and thusly is pretty strong willed himself, but is also a chapter master, the very pinnacle of leadership and martial prowess in the chapter. His tactics and strategy would likely leave any chaplain second.
After all, Avitus was just an elite soldier and a veteran tormented by the horror he done. A soldier, created to fight in a war he became tired of.
Beaten by guard when he was a child. Enlisted in the Blood Ravens. Fought in the Kronus campaign. Approched by Kyras and saw the truth about him and his chapter, didn't told it to the others. He spend all the years between this event and his death with this heavy burden, trying to stay loyal.
At the end, he bacame too much for him, and he just broke. The way he help his former brothers, and hate chaos, he didn't want to join them, he even didn't except a victory in his final fight. It was a suicide, and he know it.
hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.
Avitus always struck me as wanting to die. Martellus betrays because he's bitter at being abandoned. Tarkus betrays out of a corruption of his sense of duty. Thaddeus betrays because he wanted to save his friends. Jonah betrays because he was possessed by a daemon. Cyrus betrays because he wishes to reform the chapter without incomptence leading them astray.
But Avitus? He was shown the reality and he couldn't take it. He simply wants to die, and he engineers his own downfall so he can end his life on his own terms, screaming bloody defiance at an uncaring universe.
Since my first play through I think I’m gonna make a virus corrupt because martellus and his super tank is a lot more headache than others.
Thats why Avitus is my favorite character in that game. Because even if he is a stern person who killed many, he was still human
He died as he lived.
Yes you are correct. It's feels so saddening atmosphere.
That would be the case if they didn’t have him try to kill the only companions he has
The voice acting/writing here was just truly incredible. Gives me absolute chills. This was Relic at its finest.
Agreed. Dawn of War 2's first two campaigns had a great design and story. Avitus' betrayal being foreshadowed in the first game was brilliant. Even more so, the blood raven's failures in soulstorm to retribution were all hinted at in dark crusade.
@@jamesdow211 In Dark Crusade?
@@The_Meskhetian yes in the space marine victory cutscene
@@The_Meskhetian yeah, it says that the chapter's darkest times are ahead of it. And then we find it all out. Soulstorm saw nearly half the chapter's battle strength destroyed by Gorgutz and the others because of Boreal's incompetent leadership, along with hundreds of Aspirants. Then the Tyranids almost wipe out what is left of them, its all but confirmed that at the end of Dark Crusade, Davian discovered that the Blood Raven primarch was none other than *Magnus the Red* (and the Blood Ravens are a loyalist faction of the thousand sons, which Davian would understandably be terrified of the Inquisition finding out about *right after* they investigated the whole "okay, what the hell happened in this blue on blue incident on Kronus?") And everything else.
To give relic props for the voiceacting is not fair for the actors
Avitus fell victim to the true depths and nihilism presented by Khornate corruption. The overwhelming despair in the face of the galaxy wide Meat Grinder humanity has become; every soul spilling blood for little more than blood's sake. He does not praise Khorne for he likely knows not even the name of that blasted thing upon its throne of skulls. However he saw that in his actions alongside Kyras he served them all the same in spite of his devotion to the emperor.
Well said brother
When a Space Marine becomes self aware of the Galaxy wide torment he is trapped in. A proud man with nothing to be proud for.
I don't see the point, only your ego.
The world of warhammer 40k is so sad,dark,endless wars ...... No peace ..
It is the same as real world, bro.
jupiterloverful Just like in real life.
While the enemies of the Emperor draw breath there can be no peace.
i like their fanatism though
in the real world they are all lying and pretending to do something good
while just exploiting other countries
Except! We don't have tyranids. Fuckin hell yeah we dont have tyranids O.o...
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder made manifest
Am i the only one who see Avitus betrayal/death as very sad event?
Nope, I think it is the most powerful and emotional betrayal among all.
The last phrase is very desperate.
+Guardsman PL Of course you are not the only one, it's supposed to be tragic.
Effectively Suicide is what he is committing, he made a last stand NOT against Chaos, Xenos, or Loyalists, but against the very uncaring universe itself...
"Tarkus- Do you remember when chapter master Kyras came to Kronus, after the final victory?"
That doesn't sound like Avitus. He sounds too cal-
"YOU SHOULD YOU BLIND FOOL!!!"
There he is.
Remember this is the CANON ending.
This mission was the most emotional of them all for me. Avitus was an interesting case- a Space Marine who'd actually been broken by war and all the trauma. It seems ironic that the cynic of the bunch turned out to be the most human- to me, anyway.
Avitus: "Someday you will see through all the lies... and then the dead... will come for you as well..."
Tarkus: "No man died in His service that died in vain."
*STFU AVITUS*
Avitus: "S-spare us your empty platitudes! It matters not who lives and dies... blood is shed as it has always been... There is nothing else in this forsaken... existence..."
Tarkus: "In the grim darkness of the far future, THERE IS ONLY WAR. Or did you not already know that... Brother?"
I hate Avitus is the canon traitor. He was my favorite.
The worst part about living in the 40k universe would be being subjected to the whims of a evil force much more sinister than all the dark gods, GW writers.
Especially Matt Ward lol
The ultimate result of a galaxy without hope. One of the founding members of Delta Force, Lt. General William Boykin was second in command of the disaster in Somalia the movie Black Hawk Down was based on. And being a christian, he said the hardest burden he ever saw was seeing these brave soldiers die and suffer for an avoidable accident like a helicopter crash. And watching these boys bleed his heart sank into despair and he said to himself, "There is no God." And for the first time in his life he heard a voice in his heart, "If there is no God, there is no hope." Tarkus' last comfort to Avitus is more sincere than we realise, because a meaningless death confirms a meaningless existance, but no death is ever in vain. Be it a fictional event here in putting a broken heart to rest, or even real history in this disaster showing the world the price of freedom even today. It all points back to the one death Boykin should have remembered more than any of his men. The one death that made all life worth meaning. Jesus Christ. Avitus lived and died in vainity because the reality of a godless existance finally set in. Luckily we don't live in that kind of world.
We do live in a world devoid of hope, Regardless if God exists or not there is no free will. Because you are never free of internal and external influences. Whether your dancing to God's tune because everything is preordained and nothing is done without his will or because we are always influenced by one or more world group, event, self needs, etc. Our world lacks free will and thus any true power to affect the universe.
outlawstar15a2 Golden Throne. And I thought Avitus' logic was hopeless. Just because there seems no reason for things to have a purpose doesn't make it so. I guess for both of your cases it's a matter of who you see God as. Avitus gave up hope because those who represented their only hope, the Emperor, were abandoning them. Avitus saw those who represented the Emperor as self serving cowards and gave up. If you see God as a tyrant who only wants to take all our fun away then I can't stop you from exercising the free will He gave you to deny there is any free will. But I do have the courage to tell you you're both wrong. Just like Avitus made what seemed like the only rational option to him by betraying the last truth humanity had to survive, it would only be another 10 years before the very thing that drove him to darkness and death would be destroyed. The same is true for us. The enemy constantly wants us to believe a lie. God isn't good, God isn't fair, God isn't real. Even people who call themselves Christian do it for their own gain instead of His glory and end up setting the examples of Him just like Diometes set for Avitus on a true servant of the Emperor. The difference between Jesus and the Emperor is that when the Emperor stayed on his throne to continue to fight and fail against the powers that would undo us for 10,000 years, Jesus rose in a moment of recorded history proving Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzzentch, Nurgle, and our real enemy, Death, were defeated forever. But it only gives you hope if you stand with Him. If you see one man overcame death, you can say good for Him, the rest of us still are human and doomed to slavery to our self destructive nature and the like. But if that same Man offers you the same life that overcame Death, and the Enemy of mankind itself, freely as a gift. I say yes in a heartbeat knowing His heart wasn't to control me, but to love me. A video game set on Hard has more than it's share of dead ends, and we shouldn't complain when we make mistakes. We can only follow the example of the man who beat the game before. A world without God is a world without hope. That's why God came down personally to prove we weren't forgotten like Avitus felt. If you wish to curse me and discount my points with more hopelessness, then I won't stop you, I won't even argue. I'm just offering the same hope that saved my life. A gift can be refused. I hope you don't.
***** You didn't read my whole thing. After I said regardless if you believe in God there's no hope because there's no free will. Because your choices are never truly yours, because your never free of internal or external influences when the choice is rendered. And because of that you have no real control of the world around you. That has nothing to do with God. This problem is compounded by the fact we live in a Crapsack World (hence the source of the despair) with Human society having a natural tendency towards bad things and a lack of real power to affect change. I probably didn't word it completely.
1.) Free Will is a logical contradiction.
2.) Human society is a Crapsack World that tends towards bad attritbutes.
3.) Without Free Will Humans can't deal with #2
4.) Thus the reason for Hopelessness in our world due to the fact Humanity is stuck in a Crapsack cycle.
outlawstar15a2 And the reason I clarified was because you left hope out of the equation entirely. Jesus Himself said things will continue to get worse, and that is continuing to be proven day by day. But He also said that things will be set right and it will stay that way. He's been proven right so far. That's hope. You can't have hope without being in a bad situation, otherwise you'd have no reason to desire a better reality. Jesus is allowing us to see a world without Him because it shows us a bigger problem. Wiether we live or die happy on this earth, we still have to answer to Him as contributors to corrupting His creation. That's what Jesus died to save us from and why He is the only way. It's the only fair way and that hope is a reason to keep fighting, even when things seem empty and dead. Look at the pregnant woman in Sudan who is being set up by her government to be hanged for marrying a Christian man years after the fact that her father, who abandoned her family while they were children, was Muslim. So legally they consider her Muslim and are executing her for Apostasy? It's a lousy world to be sure, even more to the shock that World Wars were perfectly justified to be started over much less, yet the US, UN, and any sane country left does nothing. It only makes sense when you realise this woman has a Savior who went through everything she is about to and more because He loves her. And the same for you and I. We have hope because even when this world's cycle takes everything away from us, we dont' need to be afraid, because the one who holds our soul already overcame all of it. That's the point of hope. It's a dark world, but we aren't alone. We suffer, but God suffered first, and suffered more than anyone. He understands our pain and that's why we call Him Lord. He's the only one with experience on the mattter. We may as well listen to Him on how to get through it.
***** Are you seriously trying to use a fictional story set in the Warhammer 40k universe as a way to preach to us and proselytize your religion?
Someday someone will remember this masterpiece in the next "this is just the game" montage. But i doubt it will be...soon.
Avitus saw the universe for what it was, and despaired.
That is silly. Why would you say that?
@@HunnysPlaylists
Remember what setting this is.
@@rustkarl Doesn't matter, he's still lashing out because of his solipscism being refuted.
@@HunnysPlaylists
Avitus is not a solipsistic character. He is a particularly traumatised kind of nihilist. He sees the endless soul grinding war of 10,000 years and it breaks him. Concepts of brotherhood or duty thrown into the grinder and reduced to pulped meat and shattered bone because the truth is the reality he lives in expects him to fight for an uncaring master against endless monsters until he dies and it’s the same for every single one of his kin.
Either you can take solace in an enduring legacy (The flesh is weak but deeds endure.) or surrender to the grim darkness where there is only war and the laughter of thirsting gods because this galaxy won’t let it be any other way.
@@rustkarl who is the uncaring master?
3:17 "Geeeet BACK!"
"I am already in motion."
Touche, Jonah, Touche.
There is nothing else in this forsaken existence. My god what a great line.
I just realized: Avitus contradicts himself in his last words.
His whole reason for turning to Chaos was because the guilt over everyone he'd killed for the Imperium was eating away at him, but he says that it doesn't matter who lives and dies, when people dying is the very reason he turned traitor.
@Pitalla no its canon,tarkus speaks of a friend from kronus which betrayed him after being called by kyras.he despared and betrayed them to the black legion.the charaters are the same regardless of chaos rising
Basically either Tarkus, Avitus, Cyrus, Jonas and Thaddeus can turn on you but it all boils down to which one of them is the most corrupted. If none of them are corrupted by the corruption level by default Martellus will betray you. Davian Thule is the only one of your allies that cannot turn on you as he's a dreadnought and immune to corruption. So overall you have 6 potential outcomes for who turns on you; hope that clears it all up :)
Victory Bay was the Imperial Guard stronghold. Avitus' disdain and hatred for the Imperial Guard may be some kind of complicated guilt.
Avitus was the best character in many ways, his death actually made me sad :(
and you might think, "hey diomedes wasn't sure if kyras was a traitor, maybe martellus survived somehow and is spying for him", but then cyrus comes along and he's like "oh hey martellus, how's it hangin' buddy?" and you're like "what the fuck?!"
@BigDickCheney If you think about it, it makes sense that he doesn't come along. Giant walkers with autocannons, flamers and claws belching smoke out of their rears aren't known for their stealth, which this mission is supposed to be about before meeting the traitor :P
@MoneyR8 whichever squad has the highest corruption is the traitor, but Avitus' betrayal is canon. if none of your squads are corrupt then martellus will be the traitor
but doesn't tarkus say in retribution that the traitor was involved in the chronus campaign? so that limits it to tarkus (who is revealed to be loyal) davian (who almost died defending the chapter and became a (venerable) dreadnought( and avitus (who they frequently mention he fought on chronus throughout dow2, which i interpreted as hints towards him being the traitor)
thaddeus and the force commander may have been there as well but it was never confirmed or even mentioned
@Reephamike Well in Retribution if you play the chaos campain you kill off Thule on the first missing but thaddeus is just not in it at all
@OlaftheFlashy
This means his betrayal makes sense in context.
Is the reason why your brothers turn traitor is it because you don't use them enough or is it because you fail missions?
There are different variables that cause a brother to be a traitor. The main is how much pure they are which the game measures by pure/corruption scale. It is affect by completing pure/corruption objectives which the mission detail in the briefing. Also, using corrupted war gear will help add corruption points to a brother when equipped. The brother who has most corruption will be pick to be the traitor.
If all brothers are corrupted, I forgot how game determined it but I think it’s who was corrupted first or something like that.
If all brothers remain pure, the game will use the Techmarine Martellus as the traitor in that condition.
@@thomastelson5444 That makes sense. I hate the game myself but I love the story. Damn W40k does a good job. The games may be different and so are your tastes but the lore unites us all. Thank you Brother you've done this humble citizen of the Empire a service. I appreciate it. If you ever wanted to play swtor some time feel free 🙂
But anywho, apparently this is the betray that's meant to happen in the story. That and the FC's executed for heresy.
@Tobithegoodguy I hated using him, his dreadnought gets in the way of everyone.
Avitus was one of my personal favourite and the best soldier I've ever commanded. Permanently gone.... and in retribution what happened to Thaddeus and Thule?
Fate is a lie!
Truth is a lie!
The cake is a lie!!
I actually liked some of Corruption benefits so I intentionally allowed one of my favorite squads, Avitus, to get corrupted. This mission was such a bitch...
@Cenkic
Expect his soul to be devoured by a Bloodthirster in the first few seconds of emerging in the Warp and tortured forever.
Just goes to show - WH40K is one sad place.
Wait, I thought the reason the Guardsmen's death hurt him so much is that he knew they were loyalist?
Avitus being the traitor if all your squads are pure would've made more sense. Afterall, in battles Avitus did seem to have a bloodlust, so therefore.....
Martellus being the default traitor was stupid. He was the one who told space marines to go to the Judgement of Carrion to uncover the coding rights to unscramble the voice! FAIL.
@Zkingz17 Steamboy - 16 - Collapse and Rescue
Here is a person (Avitus) who knows the truth about space marines.. or should I say, the lies.
@smudgethekat Avitus is the canonical traitor.
Faith And Truth are real things; what made avitus go mad is that he found out avitus is a lie.
this is why sneering teens identify with him so much, they want to hold onto their pride that they are "like gods."
pain and humiliation both refute pride conclusively, therefore the madness.
they would rather d1e than have Humility.
they would rather d1e than get rid of their s1n.
This, my friends, is called hll.
Where's the humility in learning that you killed dozens of innocent men just doing their duty at the behest of a satanic wizard empowered by very real deities?
@@fahholliday5374 the humility is not giving into it.
@@fahholliday5374 dmns are not "d1eties."
@@fahholliday5374 though you emote otherwise by fear, the dvl is a d4d, dmnd, created, contingent being; authorityless, powerless. nothing to give you, no awareness. nothing to offer, no power for himself let alone to give you whom he htes & wants d4d and dmnd like he is.
@@fahholliday5374 your worship of evl is by fear of evl: you begin with with capital s1n of prde, opening yourself up to all s1n, d4th, dlsion, etc. by the slf-dstrctive act of believing you've taken Divine Will for yourself by wishful thinking; you hold this as absolute.
ok, so who in te cannon really did wall to choas in this battle?
normally its martellus if now one else is corrupted, butwhat about in the cannon?
Lily ♥ avitus is the cannon traitor
Feels bad man :(
I didnt even know this could happen? How?
Guys can anyone tell me the order that Warhammer games went out? From Dawn of war 2 and then.Thanks :)
So this is actualy happen in cannon?
poor avitus...he was the one who above all realized the purest truth.
...that there is only war.
War is a lie! Truth is a lie!
"In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war"
That sounds kina orky, or maybe khorny
Nobody expected that in the future Guilliman will be revived and have Eldar waifu+new type of space marines called: Primaris.
@@MrCouchmen if Avitus just waited a little more his nihilism may have been cured by these new events. Or worsed (the whole eldar thing is... well...).
"Faith is a lie. TRUTH IS A LIE!"
"Nothing distracts me from my target."
Of all the lines that fit, this one is well timed and in a way chilling.
No, both of those are the only real things: avitus is the lie.
its obvious Avitus is meant to be the real traitor since a lot more time and emotion is put into his speaches
+thetopherhaslanded Also, his heresy goes all the way back to Kronus, In DOW 1.
+thetopherhaslanded What about Thaddeus?
+Ninja7546 yea i tried it with him cuz i thought it would be cool, cuz he's the young one i thought his betrayal could be like an Anakin Skywalker haha and it starts off well but in the final battle theres no speech. barely any lines at all then just dies
+Ninja7546 Thaddeus was young. Aviitus is only one who hates everyone beyond Blood Ravens (including Imperial Guard, even loyal) and the only one who find bloodlust main target. Only one thing is that he should be rather Khorn worshiper not Nurgle.
+thetopherhaslanded Yes. There are more clues than people says. Main one in the internet is that Avitus was the only one on Kronus who could possibly be traitor (as we have to exclude Cyrus, Trakus and Thule). But beyond that there are 3 more:
1. Avitus is probably the only one (I didn't saw all options) who talk so much during mission against traitor and after it.
2. Avitus' bloodlust
3. Avitus is the only one Sergant who advices Force Commander to do something corrupting (destroying Angels Gate to get access more easily)
Tarkus was deeply hurt by this betrayal. In Retribution he reveals that he had to kill Avitus when he brings Apollo Diomedes out of his despair and even in the final battle against demon ascending Kyras, he shouts "For those who have fallen! For those who cannot be redeemed!".
Avitus did not fall to Chaos in the way his brothers might have understood it, instead he fell to the truth. He saw the galaxy for what it was once stripped of the comforting veneer of morality and higher purpose ingrained into him as a Space Marine; understood what it meant and could not stomach it.
This makes Avitus a notable example of a 40k character becoming "self-aware". It isn't his love of violence or any lust for power or the corruption of Kyras that turns him traitor, but a sudden awareness of the galaxy in the way we as spectators understand: it is a hopeless meat grinder, and nothing more the setting exists for violence alone, for our pleasure. Avitus had been grappling with this doubt since the events of Victory Bay in Dark Crusade, and Kyras' cavorting with Eliphas pushes him over the edge. When he betrays the Imperium, it isn't because he suddenly hates it or his brothers or suddenly loves Khorne, but because of his new perspective. When Avitus betrays the Imperium, it is because he is a proud man with nothing left to ever take pride in again. Where he once held conviction he was only left with a death wish and he sought his demise in the only way he could ever respect it: amidst the heat of battle, in blood and fire, where the raging dead can be drowned out under the roar of bolter fire. In the end, Avitus died staging his last stand not against the alien, heretic, or loyalists, but against the whole cruel, uncaring universe.
I honestly hope they make a live action or incredibly good CGI movie for Chaos Rising one day, this being the absolute most important scene where you'd have Tarkus kneeling towards Avitus in an attempt to comfort his dieing brother. "No man that died in his service died in vain" Avitus grabs Tarkus by the collar and pulls him closer with blood forming at the edges of his mouth, this orchestra soundtrack playing "Spare us your EMPTY PLATITUDES" blood spittles on Tarkus' wrinkled emotionless face as he fights back his own tears and regret. Avitus pushes Tarkus, leans back onto the cold snow, blood reddening the snow around his armor, he gives his last dieing words in this speech, tears forming in his eyes, looking up into the sky and says "there is nothing else in this forsaken existence"as the camera pans higher and away from Avitus to represent his final moments of true acceptance of his fate, this is by far would be the most heartbreaking moment in almost any video game or movie in my opinion because Avitus tells the most horrific truth of all, that life itself is pain.
WELL fucking worded bröther!
@@GeneralCreed We're getting something with the Blood Angels soon so it might have something akin to that though it's more about them dealing with their Black Rage.
He would make Malal proud to be honest.
TL;DR, he's a woke Space Marine
Avitus saw Dawn of War 3 gameplay...
A game which got even abandoned by it's devs in 1 year
That's why he wanted to destroy the Blood Raven to end DOW3's heresy.
DOw is good game fuck you
@C.S.E United Europe well, the story was interesting though. But yes, it was pure heresy. I wonder if they would come up with a new dawn of war game that is based on blood ravens' history, such as the Secrets of Kronus.
@@civilsecuritylite12054 and in general... Im still cringing for blaster lasguns
"THIS IS ALL THAT REMAINS! BLOOD, AND FURY!
ASNWER THEIR ATTACKS WITH HOLY FURY!"
Avitus was the most touching, because he isn't wrong in what he says. He despairs, he has lost hope, in a universe where he has been little else than a tool all his life. Everything he has done, everything he is, was a lie. When he learned, he knew he had nothing left.
Right in the feels...
Bollthorn Space marines are corrupted
He rages moreso than most Marines but that only meant he was far more susceptible to emotion than the rest...So that truth, that there is never ending war in an uncaring universe, broke him.
Everything is a lie? No there is only the Emperor...
@@Negativvv The Emperor? A broken shell of a thing that is a shadow of its former self. An entity transformed into an object of worship against its will, and who can do nothing but cling to what scraps of life remain because its all it can do to atone for its failures. An entity that was once so simultaneously *perfect* and so disconnected from the very beings it was created to protect because of that perfection that it cannot see the flaws in its plans or logic... the Emperor lied. The Emperor failed. But that doesn't mean that the Emperor's ideals of a Humanity united by reason, loyalty to one another, and a common purpose are lies. Let us hope that Guilliman can succeed in pulling the wretched, decrepit corpse of the Imperium back from the brink, and transform it into something better. If nothing else, he at least should be able to learn from his father's mistakes...
In case someone does not get it, he is blaming the whole 40k universe with his last line. I wonder if this setting is dark enough.
Well it *is* dark. Really, really dark. Enough that some people lose interest in it because it's *too damn dark* for them. I'm sometimes surprised more characters don't go crazy realising what their universe means.
@@AngryIrishBenjamin Least it ain't XEELEE dark..
@@AngryIrishBenjamin you were allowed to be born here instead of directly in hll to give you this one chance to Repent.
@@HunnysPlaylists Buddy, if you want to cosplay as a missionary you should go and actually pursue that life. Proselytizing in random videos' comment sections on the internet will never get you results.
@@fahholliday5374 Venerable Fulton Sheen:
“Conscience, Christ, and the gift of faith make evil men uneasy in their sin. They feel that if they could drive Christ from the earth, they would be free from “moral inhibitions.” They forget that it is their own nature and conscience which makes them feel that way. Being unable to drive God from the heavens, they would drive his ambassadors from the earth. In a lesser sphere, that is why many men sneer at virtue-because it makes vice uncomfortable.”
"some day, you will see through all the lies. And then the dead will come for you as well".
if you know about the plot of DoW, that is probably the best line in the history of ever.
"And then the dead will come for you as well."
That should be reserved for Gabriel Angelos, about Cyrene, you know, the planet wich he called the Inquisition and exterminatus'd the living shit out of it? And he's pretty much considered the only remaining survivor from there.
Imperial Guardsmen did he gun them down himself? no. Avitus saw every man he killed.
Phoenix Fire So being responsible for the destruction of your own home planet, and the death of your entire family, (which he killed his father), isn't bad? Avitus killed IG on Kronus, Gabriel "technically" killed innocent people, women, children,disabled, etc. and the planet itself.
He did it to save them from Chaos corruption, to save the Imperium.
It wasn't chaos, it was a budding rebellion.
The harder the metal, the more brittle and easily shattered.
When I played, I received "Full Purity" position and I thought, that Martellus was betrayer. But I felt so sadly, when knew, that Avitus is canonicity betrayer... He was my almost favorite character in Dawn of War II.
Rest in peace, brother.
I share your opinion and it doesn`t help that I like Martellus too
It does make the most sense. Avitus realizes there is no honor or glory after what Kyrus had shown him, and knows that death is the only truth in the galaxy. He essentially developed space PTSD after a lifetime of war and became a deathseeker. Kyrus revels in the pointlessness of it all, and Avitus was just a broken man.
Yeah, I guess Retribution made it clear who the canon traitor really was because people figured out that Tarkus was referring to Avitus when he told the story about having to kill one of his friends who turned traitor, but until Retribution came out, it was kinda up in the air. I was pretty convinced it was Martellus, just because 1) the whole story about him losing hope and turning to chaos when he felt like he'd been abandoned on Typhon made a lot of sense to me 2) he's just an NPC in the first couple of DoW2 games, so it's less likely any players would've been too attached to him (which would've made him a "disposable" character) and 3) when you have him as the traitor in a playthrough, he's pretty convincing (screaming praises to Khorne the whole time, murdering the shit out of everything in sight with his tank, etc).
@@cid2852 And to be honest, Martellus as the betrayer makes no sense. Considering the only reason you manage to unmask the betrayer at all is because Martellus helps you at certain points. You'd have never found the Judgment of Carrion if not for him, along with several other instances where he is instrumental in breaking the coded vox transmissions that ultimately reveal the traitor's identity.
@@atrj988 and it punishes you with one of the hardest boss in the game haha
You know, I've been thinking... Avitus hates the Imperial Guard, right ? In the fluff, it is because when he was young, a PDF regiment committed pillages in his natal village.
But what if his hate against the IG, as we see it, was far more complex ? After all, even if the description in DoW2 says he deeply hates the IG, he just appear to be annoyed by them from time to time, like when he declares we "Baby-sit them at the first occasion"...
What if Avitus actually felt sorry for the Guard and for the guardsmen he had to kill in Victory Bay ? What if he really hated the IG for his young days, but then started to actually empathy them after having discovered that all the soldiers he had killed were actually innocent ?
Well spoken my friend. That is a fought-out theory.
It could be that, coupled with the guilt of killing innocent and loyal servants of the Emperor, that triggered his doubts. And, of course, Kyras was able to capitalize and act on that to gradually mould Avitus.
+TomZanovich You may be right, Avitus seemed like he was filled with regret through the entire campaign. He seemed like he was going to snap at any point.
The hundreds of thousands of individual men and women he'd watched commit terrible deeds by the orders of the so-called holy servants of the Emperor.
The hundreds of thousands of individual men and women he'd mowed down like grass in Victory Bay, pushed forward to bleed and die for the sake of bleeding and dying, and so much as asking why is met with a bullet to the face courtesy of your own leaders.
Avitus couldn't hold onto his sanity long enough to reach a condemnation of the corrupt, greedy, self-appointed leaders of mankind. He broke, and faced his doom in despair at the senseless, hopeless, endless slaughter and agony of life in the Imperium of Man.
It was not daemons or sorcery, nor even weapons which destroyed Avitus. He was destroyed by the cruel indifference and unspeakable malice of mankind itself.
I'm sorry, Avitus. I'm sorry you had to see so much.
Well actually, in the fluff, the Blood Ravens never fought the IG on Kronus . Once they arrived on Kronus, they asked them to left the planet and they did .
Can you really call a guy who didn't want to serve a corrupted chapter master a traitor?
***** It is not the Chapter he betrayed. It was his own brothers.
Jacob Sailer It was both.
***** No, he served the Chapter by serving Kyras, in his own twisted way.
Jacob Sailer I still don't understand one thing. Why was Kyras still a chapter master after everything he did? I mean, sure he tried to hide everything, but why was Avitus the only one who rose up before Retribution? Kyras was showing signs of corruption even before.
***** By retribution most of the chapter was either declared renegades since they found out the truth or had been corrupted by Kyras. He only kept proud fools like Apollo Diomedes (who'd be unable to work out the truth) in high positions to maintain the illusion while the corrupted like Apothecary Galan were maneuvered into positions of power where they'd corrupt their underlings and so on. Doesn't help that Space marines have an almost blind loyalty to their Chapter masters which reduces any rebellious elements and the ability to instantly declare anyone who could expose him a renegade to be hunted down and slain means it wasn't too hard for Kyras to get away with his actions. His reputation as a hero for defeating Ulkair and saving the 5th company from the Space hulk Judgment of Carrion only aided his "reliability".
It's ironic that the coldest, most ruthless, and vengeful brother was also the most human.
For he, unlike so many other astartes, suffered guilt and remorse to the point of despair, which drove him to treachery.
A truly tragic character.
Thadeus Betrayal: 68k views
Martellus Betrayal: 77k views
Jonah Betrayal: 113k views
Cyrus Betrayal: 129k views
Tarkus Betrayal: 140k views
Avitus Betrayal: 206k views
TARINunit9 a
Because Avitus's betrayal is cannon.
and the best written imo.
KingLich
Why do you think it's the best written? Because it's the canon betrayal...
Avitus talking about lies reminds me of
Eliphas in Dark Crusade. Admittedly he was talking to Thule but it reminds me
of the exchange at the beginning of the Chaos Stronghold.
“Welcome Captain. Have you seen the truth at last?”
“I won’t listen to your lies heretic!”
“Then I won’t lie to you brother. You’ve been lied to enough.”
why are you assuming chaos, creatures who only lie, are being honest just because you agree with them?
@@HunnysPlaylists
Is it a lie when chaos gnaws at the heart of the chapter and it’s forgotten history?
The aftermath of Dark Crusade implies as much while the events of Chaos Rising and Retribution quite clearly depict it.
After all, why lie when the truth cuts far deeper.
@@rustkarl they are a loyalist offshoot of the thousand suns.
@@rustkarl Thule already knows they are descended from the 1000 suns.
@@HunnysPlaylists
In theory. But that is not common knowledge in universe, in fact it was pointedly kept under wraps. Another theory is a loyalist Word Bearer’s chapter, I personally prefer that one. (Makes more sense for condemning Blood Ravens relics to be on Kronus and Eliphas’ particular quirk of referring to them as ‘Brothers’ rather than ‘Cousins’.)
The point being nobody but a handful know the truth, and those who did destroyed all traces of it and refuse to speak of it.
I actually like this betrayal more than the others since Avitus is kinda the most loyal "Traitor" out of the squad (ok, Jonah doesn't really count since he was possessed, just saying) since he gave the most information about the corruption in the chapter.
I also like how he talked about Kronus since it was really cool how they put Avitus and Tarkus in the Dark Crusade story, despite not actually being in the game as separate characters.
+MabiguyXIII Live happy. He is the canonical traitor. The commander and Thaddeus has been sent to fight inside the eye of the terror.
+MabiguyXIII I more liked Gordian, since he actually appeared in Dark Crusade... Pitty they killed him off in the Vanila DoW2.
MabiguyXIII Avitus' actions were essentially suicide by cop.
MabiguyXIII Tarik’s in dark crusade was the space marine Thule talks to in the necron stronghold
He was also the sanest traitor out there: Thaddeus actually trusted a daemon (not a very sane thing to do), Martellus transformed into a batshit crazy Chaos fanatic, Cyrus went ow the edge with his paranoia and Tarkus simly reached "Arthas with Frostmourne sword"-insane levels with his daemon bolter thing. And yeah, Jonah was posessed after becoming a Sorcerer by another name. Avitus - not so much, he just grew there of constant lies, dishonor and pointless bloodshed.
Avitus in truth was most sensitive soul of them all. He hated his foes with all his hearth for that they represented and that they had done to humanity and thus, he allowed himself to be consuming by his righteous fury. Problems begun to arise then he was pitted against his fellow humans. He couldn't handle the pain of their betrayal. The very fact that he is forced to kill his fellow humans made him to retreat to his shelter, fury and eventually, rage. Further events had shattered his trust in everything. He had seen rot in the Imperium and most importantly, in his own chapter and battle brothers and it was just too much for him to handle. He fell into depression and self-blaming from which his nihilistic nature was born. His act of heresy was in some way meant to open eyes of his brothers. To say no, to all lies that he is being told. To show cold, hard truth to himself and others.
I pity him, his lines:
"Only the fury of battle can silence the dead"
"It's all that remains, blood and fury"
"Faith is a lie, truth is a lie"
Shows great pain and emptiness in his hearths. Most importantly, it shows that he cares about innocent who he had killed by following lies of his corrupted battle commanders. He chose to retreat to his shelter, fury, in order to have his peace even if it only means a short escape from his consciousness.
BlackDeathViral03"The man who has nothing can still have Faith."
BlackDeathViral03 lies and blasphemy! do you think victory bay was in service to the imperium? guardsmen lost on Kaurava? the heresies of the chaos rising? they where no heretics, no traitors, no xeno's no they where good honest Imperial serving the emperor and they killed them they killed them all. no the blood ravens are the traitors and Avitus was the true hero, using the strength of his character, and the strength of man to seek vengeance against those traitors for "THIS IS ALL THAT REMAINS OF THE BLOOD RAVENS BLOOD AND FURY!" cowards and traitors all! their chapter should be stricken from imperial record and their heretical and traitorous bodies destroyed to the very last molecule...for the emperor and the emperors mercy!
Thomas Duponti You forget, Brother... Not ALL who serve the Blood Ravens are traitors. None could have predicted that Chapter Master Kyras would be a traitor to the Emperor.
Hanzzo Ezekiel Don't besmirch my station with your title. I am a commissar of the Imperium I led man to greater glory in the emperors name. you merely lie and kill and lie and kill. your chapter has always been tainted by the weakness of the traitor legions. you have no holy ground to hide behind here. your chapter from its inception was doomed to turn from the light of the emperor. yet the imperium would stay their hand and keep you in its service. that I will accept, but I will never forget what I saw in Sub-sector Aurelia. pray to your dark gods that our paths may never cross for all that would keep me from destroying you is your usefulness to the Imperium.
Avitus reminds me a lot of Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, what with his turn towards extreme methods, his disillusionment with the blind self-righteousness of his faction, and his eventual suicide-by-cop. You can totally see Avitus saying "You can kill me, you have that right, but you have no right to judge me".
Avitus: Get Back!
Jonah: I am already in motion!
Lol talk about perfect timing for the command lines :)
Oh and Cyrus: Missile Barrage!
Ha he totally said that a little too late; the missiles had already hit :D
Avitus: This is all that remains - blood and fury!
Jonah: Answer their attacks with holy fury!
@@gryphonbotha1880 , oh yeah! I actually laughed at that part because Jonas proved Avitus´ point further.
"FAITH IS A LIE, TRUTH IS A LIE!"
*contemplates life*
'TIS A LIE
OUR ALLIES ASS IS A LIEEEE
BOREALUM IS A LIE!
LIE IS A TRUTH
Hold on- was that a lie too? (Insert trollface)
Great choice of music used, makes the situation a lot more fitting, and ultimately das in the end.
sad*
This is likely the canon betrayal.
Martellus, Tarkus, Jonah, and Cyrus are all with Diomedes in Retribution, which leaves Thaddeus and Avitus the most likely traitors. But Tarkus takes Avitus's betrayal much harder, which makes more sense for Tarkus to become the Ancient.
+Professor Sponge It IS avitus. They mention that Thaddeus is on a crusade with the force commander, and Tarkus says he served on Kronus with the traitor. Only Avitus served on Kronus with Tarkus (excluding davian thule).
MrBaconification Okay, I wasn't sure about the commander. I half-believed he was executed or exhiled
+Professor Sponge Also, in dawn of war 2 you start to notice that Avitus is displeased with the chapter and that he relished in combat/slaughter.
GreenskinHolland I did notice that when I replayed it after Chaos Rising. that leaves the question of what happened to the Force Commander... not that he was really a character but his fate is unknown.
+Professor Sponge He was aperantly Exiled for 100 year to the Eye,from what i read/heard which could also double as a crusade against chaos if Thaddeus is with him.
"No man died in his service that died in vain."
Epic
+Sgt.Galahad no as epic as "and then the dead will come for you as well"
But it offers no solace to one who has fallen to the truth of despair.
They still died. They just die. To rationalize it with, as Tarkus said, empty platitudes, is an insult.
'It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.'
-Johan Huizinga
It's amazing how each and every Blood Raven remains loyal somehow.
Avitus calling each and every Black Legion soldier a dog, scum.
Tarkus murdering a horde of Chaos soldiers with his Bolter.
Thaddeus doing it to save the chapter from the Tyranids and his brothers from the Warp. Only killing in self defense.
Cyrus may have been the only true traitor, along with Martellus. And that's simply because he didn't call them scum at every corner. Among other things. Even he wanted to correct everything.
Strange, the so called treasonous Blood Raven rarely praised the Chaos Gods and tormented the Emperor, it was almost always with good intentions, never simply a lack of faith, the choice of heresy was not simply falling to Chaos. It was escaping the lies of the Chapter, and assisting his brothers to destroy the Chaos threat within the Chapter.
And even the blind zealots like Space Marines could see that, a true testament to faith.
Sadly more than a few marines go chaos after realizing the mistakes and follys of the Imperium. Why couldnt the Imperial Guard on Kaurava simply join forces with the marines to retake the planet? Because the marines wanted to keep everyone out for their own secrets, worse, they killed them because of it. Its easy to see how that would weigh on anyones conscience
GearShotgun Conflicting orders if I remember correctly.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." - The moment they accepted Chaos in this way or another they lost. Isnt this the main reason of Horus Heresy? Horus and his lot also wanted do something good for the mankind, but since they wanted use the power of Chaos for that (which it is ALWAYS working the other way around - You are not in control. You are just a bitch of Chaos. A puppet of the Dark Gods) they just fucked up everything.
Wyczesany Bóbr Thank First Chaplain Erebus and his legion, the Word Bearers, for the Horus Heresy - they were the ones who orchestrated Horus' fall and betrayal, and the rest is history. AFAIK, the only Legion that actually thought the Warp could be used for good were the Thousand Sons, and first they got a public and humiliating dressing-down from the Emperor, then got their home planet burned by the Space Wolves. Is it any wonder that so many Primarchs sided with Horus?
Do not forget Jonah, who was possessed by a daemon, and even in the end the entity couldn't unleash all his power due to the Librarian resistance and will, helping the rest of Blood Ravens to kill it.
2:23 that was the drop that made the glass spill for Avitus
Everything else could be chalked up to outside influences and/or plans beyond the wisdom of a simple veteran sergeant, but to hear the Chapter-Master himself talk about not using a known Champion of Chaos as an asset, but using one Avitus had probably helped in evicting from the blood-soaked ground of the Deimos Peninsula, spilled from the thousands of innocents sacrificed to Khorne. His world turned upside down: loyal servants of the Emperor were mindlessly gunned down by their kin, and their charges slaughtered for nothing in Victory Bay, under the watchful eyes of one who always was from the beginning a servant of the Chaos Gods; and this, while those that they were sent to Kronus to eradicate completely like Eliphas escaped retribution entirely to once again turn them against one another.
Yeah, if I just realized I participated to a mass sacrifice that us puny earthling would classify as a global genocide for simply no reason I'd start planning to bite the bullet too.
I think ultimately, Avitus was closest to Khorne, and left unchecked, he would have become a devout worshiper of Khorne. He is disillusioned with his chapter, a corrupted symbol of holiness and honor; he is disgusted by the deceit and dishonor that surrounds him, and furthermore, he uses violence as an escape. Much like how Angron and the World Eaters grew disgusted by the hypocrisy and corruption of the Imperium as a whole. Now, like a true Khornate Berserker, Avitus seeks only to die bloody and thrashing on the battlefield, crying out in defiance against a cold, cruel, uncaring universe.
Is it similar to Kharn?
I know it is similar to a fanfic version of Kharn where he is tired of his friend and lover lying to him and got him subjected to Ahriman.
Goodbye Avitus. You saw so much of the suffering in the bleak world of the 41st millenium, saw the rot and shit in the dark places of the Imperium, saw the reality of the times you were in. Its interesting how he knows he's probably going to lose, knows his former brothers are coming after him, and he doesn't run. He wanted it to end. In a way it reminds me of Talos of the Night Lords novel. He knows the Imperium is rotten in many places and knows that what he does is also rotten and evil, and knows the Imperium will come for them eventually, though it wasn't quite the Imperium that he fought in the end. Of all the fictional universes, 40K is one of the most if not the most grim.
Out of all betrayal (except Jonas), avitus still have the same mind all this time. He doesn't "join" The black legion, he never say our troops but your troops to any of the black legion, not to mention all the slur he hurl to the black legion while referring to his old comrade as brothers. Idk maybe I'm just too sad to see a guy like avitus really has the mind to kill his own comrades.
Girls with time machine: Hello grandma, I'm your granddaughter
Boys with time machine: Avitus wait! Your chapter's honor still can be restored!
It wasn't just about his Chapter's honor, his honor aswell and to him he already lost it a long time ago. No matter what could happen, the dead already came for him...
This is the cannon traitor in retribution Tarkus said that he killed his friend who was part of the Kronus campaign
WOW and HOW!?! This dialogue is way better than the regular dawn of war 2 campaign, I'd almost say its as good as the first campaign from the first dawn of war game!
- "Faith is a lie! Truth is a lie!
THE CAKE IS A LIE!"
"Nothing distracts me from my target."
Cyrus= Steve Blum = BADASS!
but it's such a delicious lie!
*YOU LIEEEE*
Our enemies ass is a lie
It's kinda interesting.
Two 40k games with two grizzled old veteran characters. IF this is your ending Chaos Rising then they contrast very differently both in personality and fate.
Sidonis from Space Marine is a Grizzled Veteran but comes across as wise and even cheerful with phrases like "Clever of the Damned Orcs". His tone helps to convey. He died from being impaled by a chaos lord
Avitus meanwhile is cynical, gruff and nihilistic. He is angry with his work and life and treats other people similarly. He died because all this cynicism and nihilism finally caused him to abandon what principles he had left and died a traitor.
One died loyal, Another died a traitor. One died hopeful, One died Cynical. Both Veterans.
That's because Chaos Rising had actual complex characters who reacted to their horrible situations in human and realistic ways, whereas Space Marine had stock soldier archetypes because its an empty power fantasy
@@alisonpurgatory85 that's literally how ultra marines are lol and pls there is nothing complex about almost the cast in this game dude in question qas the same bull headed brute the whole time even in the first game. Traitor ending just out of nowhere where gives him face
As much as I want to hate Avitus, I cant. He realized the inherent nihilism in 40k. And this is coming from a long time space marine player 😁
On the one hand... Avitus is right. The Galaxy is just a game board for the Chaos Gods that has been allowed to exist because they don't want to get bored, but on the other... It's not like it took much for him to really fall. For Avitus, there was always that chance. It's sad really.
I can´t think about a character with more of a meta view as Avitus: he literally saw the setting they live in!
Soooo basically Avitus goes PTSD and just basically say "FUCK YOU MATT WARD AND GAMEWORKSHOP", right?
That's a succinct way to put it.
5:03
it's funny how we all enjoy the dark grittyness of the w40k universe and the lies of the imperium and accept them as the only choice. It amuses us. But truth is, not one of us would ever want to live in this world. No matter how powerful or strong we would be in that world.
Avitus just showed us that the world of W40k is shitty and no matter how much we enjoy it, such a universe would be a curse to us.
why are you so emotional? your curses are Returned.
You can see that the developers clearly wanted Avitus to be the betrayer, he was clearly the least likely.
I don't really rewatch this video, I relisten it. The music, the writing of the lines and their delivery, the unit quotes and sounds of battlefield and how all of that meshes together - it's all just so delicious.
'Geeeeeet BACK!'
'I am already in motion!'
'This is all that remains! Blood and fury!'
'Answer their attacks with holy fury, brothers!'
Lovely coincidental match ups of the scripted and in-game dialogue
Through out the game, I never liked Avitus but I did respect him.
That changed with his betrayal. It was then that I finally understood what he had become; of all the horrors he'd been called upon to do and of how his conscience was tested by his loyalty to the chapter. His final words haunted me. Made me think of the soldiers within the Wehrmacht (not the SS) who found their conscience sacrificed in committing loyalty to the Fatherland.
"It matters not who lives or dies, blood is shed. There is nothing else in this forsaken existence."
+Jacob Sailer SS are just like a lot of soldiers in the war. The war is the truth about our world. And those who come to face it will always lose their innocence. You may go to war for the good reasons, fighting may be the right choice, but doing it is never a right thing, no matter who is the ennemy, they will do horrible things, kill, and destroy lives. That's worse for the peoples who are very young or forced to do it at a young age, because they didn't even have a choice. For them, it can become natural.
For nazis, they are way more philosophicaly complicated than Avitus, they hated the State, but loved their people (this lead to a huge, violent and bloody political competition within the Reich, and it made it surprisingly very strong). Hated Christianity, hated Jews (and their religion too, by the way), and they didn't even like themselves, they really thought Aryans were the best for mankind (even better than them) and tried to make them to the top of the specie.
They were totally delusional (lost the World war, their pride, lived poorly for 2 decades...) to the point it became a part of them, and they naturally spead it to the whole society. At this point, good and evil become shades of grey, and killing millions is not a big deal.
+M Korda TGSNT.tv for truth
Mister joper Never watched TGSNT, only read books. Is it good or are you joking and it's just neonazi propaganda?
I am not joking,lol,At the very least you should know the other side of the story.
Mister joper I think I know both already, there is so much to be tell.
3:42
Proof of Avitus' PTSD
"There is nothing else in this forsaken existence!"
This so defines Warhammer 40k universe, it's war non-stop, i kinda symphatize with Avitus.
Avitus' final words reminded me Rutger Hauer "Tears in Rain" monologue in Blade Runner.
avitus stole terminator armor
traitor or not...a true blood raven
This video made me main loyalist factions
After seeing what realization of 40k reality can do to human, I start to respect Emperor even more. He is an ultimate antivillain, that suffers immense struggle and forced to commit millions of atrocities, to protect mankind from most terrible of truths in the Galaxy
What atrocities?
or should I say, what "truth" are you trying to justify your own feelings with here?
The music is perfect
He no longer speaks with the same fury and conviction as he did before. What you see now is as broken a man as a space marine can become.
Can you imagine if the Force Commander was the traitor?
Tarkus: 'It was you, the Force Commander. How could you do this?!'
FC: '...'
Martellus: 'The Force Commander left us this message before retreating to the planet.'
Message: '...'
Avitus: 'Any last words, heretic?'
FC: '...bacon.'
Would be quite the entertaining scene.