I once ran a campaign with someone like that Rogue. They explicitly told me anything Pseudo-Christian related was really triggering and tried to single out the Cleric of the party for being Catholic out of the game. Was really disruptive and one time took it upon themselves to spend the session under blankets on my couch fuming instead of playing. That was one of the quickest times I opted to disinvite someone to the table.
I understand that many people struggle with trauma and that we need to be respectful of people's needs and triggers. But if it's to the point they can't even interact with a decent religious person, then they seriously need to do some soul-searching on their own end, because they've turned their personal trauma into outright discrimination. I got my issues with religion too, but so long as a follower isn't forcing their beliefs on my or using their beliefs to justify hateful or bigoted actions, I'll respect them the same as anybody else.
Don't blame you whatsoever. I understand that they endured trauma related to catholicism or Christian faith in general, but to act out, lie, slander and throw a tantrum is inexcusable. Do not at all blame you for showing this individual the door.
It was pretty rough - as someone who experienced this sort of thing first hand - I get it. I empathized with them, but not every person of faith is going to be closeminded. In fact, I lived with that Catholic guy for close to 4-5 years in total. He was always super chill.
Is it just me or did Lucy seem to get angry at OP for not acting like the stereotype she expected? I wonder if she got so freaked out because she was confronted by a Christian who wasn’t hateful and that would have resulted in a paradigm shift that she just wasn’t willing to consider. It’s creepy that she was lying to another group about OP, painting him as a controlling, homophobic, and hostile, and then wanted to know where he lived. I don’t know what trauma Lucy’s gone through, but I hope she heals from it and doesn’t just let hatred fester.
She never went through trauma, she's a liar, as seen by how she lied as easily and often as breathing. Shes a alphabet soup psychopath trying to lynch people who play a video game.
With so many people like justifying their hyper delusions I do not have a drop of sympathy, that well is so dry from too many of her type of personality over abusing others good will they maxed out their victim cards.
Lucy sounds a bit like one of those people on twitter who find something they disagree with and they twist it so the other person sounds like the worst type of living being in existence.
And that is why you don't answer random, out of the blue questions from people you don't know without any context. If they're immediately jumping you with an awkward question, that's an immediate red flag they're waving in your face. Personally, I wouldn't have answered until context or a solid explanation was provided. If they couldn't/wouldn't do that, then they don't get their answer.
Given that Lucy is obviously portrayed as a habitual liar, I wonder just what that "bad" problem was her twisting the actual events all out of proportion.
I think that may be the case. I've known people who take events and twist them in the mind to the point where it's completely disconnected from reality. For all we know, she may not have suffered from a religious trauma... but is taking potentially innocent events and lying about what really happened.
@@nickchavez720 I’ll be honest, I think that is what happened. She probably grew up loathing a guy or girl that was a devout Christian growing up and probably drastically took anything they said out of context. I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole “hating my sexuality thing” was just a Christian she tried to press turn around and tell her that they don’t care about her sexuality, but they will not support it/the sin.
I've met ppl like "lucy" heck I lived with two of em, I'd say she's a narcissist. If I had to guess she probs suffered some trauma as a small child maybe physical, sexual, or mental leading to her mental issues (habitual lying/narcissism) and never got treatment for that trauma. Flash forward to middle school high school age Lucy is at a point in her life where she's probably miserable due to her lack of therapy for trauma and with hormones flaring, she is left wanting to feel some kind of power whether consciously or subconsciously, she picked at a kid, more than likely a popular kid because she believes she is the best due to her narcissism, and she probably was horrible to this kid unrelated to her issues in any way. But they were more than likely a Christian and wound-up and poked back in some way and Lucy attributes that as her preexisting trauma and since that has become her story over the years, she clings to it and attacks people for literally no reason. A lot of the time narcissism is defensive toxic behavior. You suffer trauma and are made to feel unloved or unwanted or unattractive therefore you overcorrect and believe yourself to be beautiful beyond measure or infallible. And with this deluded sense of self come the lies, it is impossible to maintain that hyper-inflated view of self without lying to others and to yourself. And often times because of the narcissist's inflated view of self they don't want to address the moments that truly made them feel less than, so they lie and say something that wasn't traumatic actually was. That way they get everything they want, sympathy, attention, praise, etc. without having to actually address their real trauma. It's honestly a really sad way to live and if my assumed assessment is in anyway true then I pray Lucy seeks some treatment and healing otherwise she'll grow bitter and resentful never addressing her true trauma in a healthy way. Her relationships will always fail, and she'll never grow as a person, she'll remain trapped in her view of self and that is a horrible fate.
I hope Lucy learned from this experience. As an atheist one has to realize that religion is private, and a valid opinion. As much as I don’t want them to ram their beliefs down my throat, they don’t want me tearing down their faith.
It'd be wonderful if people could just live and let live. But the temptation to call people "Stupid" or "Bad" because they don't agree with you, is just to big for some people... It's disappointing, is what it is.
@@DellikkilleD call it a crazy assumption, but i don't think you're an entirely pleasant person. but i hope that someday you can grow out of it friend 😄
@@MrYac-ie8ie fair I doubt you are even a person at all, so I guess that leaves us even. Ill take unpleasant over delusional any day. Unpleasant people dont get people killed ;)
Unfortunately this is a situation that almost always happens. All you can do is keep your cool and report the behavior to the dm. If the dm has your back, like the dm had op’s back, then the problem player won’t be a problem for long. If the dm doesn’t have your back maybe consider leaving as the problem player now knows they can get away with being a problem and will only ruin the experience.
@@victorrosenheart8036 if I had to put a number to it I’d estimate that a good 60-80% of all games have at least one problem player and about 20-40% of them have DMs/ GMs who are either in over their heads, don’t know what they are doing, or let problem players run the show when they should be. Keep in mind that this is just what I’ve seen based on games I have either played in or run.
In this day and age it's good to be careful of anyone whose voting Right in their name a country/state/province. Doesn't matter how reasonable they seem, they're literally supporting violence against people anyway. People can be polite and still monsters. That said, to attack someone because their christian is ridiculous. Being christian only makes it significantly likely you're a bigot, not guaranteed. Gotta check first. Plenty of nice Christians actually following what Jesus said and helping those less fortunate and defending them from hate with love. They are not the ones voting for the guys trying to get people arrested for being assigned the wrong gender at birth.
We played D&D at seminary. Quite honestly I thought it was going to be the story of a player leaving because his or her church was scandalized by the game.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only Christian fan of this channel. Dnd is always a blast when players respect each other enough to come together and have fun.
We're here, and the past stories about extremist Christian players disgust me. Just live and let live, no need to force beliefs (religious or otherwise) down others' throats.
I completely agree. I’m a Christian as well, and I think we should just be nice to people. The minority of extremist Christian players have kind of left a stain on the rest of us. I imagine I wasn’t the only one who thought that the story would be about one of those players.
I’m an atheist and think this person in the story is a jackass. I have plenty of issues with religion, however the gaming table is not the time or place. Nor should one paint everyone with such a broad brush. It’s so rude.
I'm Christian too Actually, I'm the only religious person in my DnD group but everyone is chill. Personally, if someone like Lucy joined my group and started poking the bear. I'm not above pulling some movie villain shit in campaign and become their sole antagonist That's just me tho, I get a kick out of rattling someone's chains that decides to mess with me for no reason
I think the funniest thing is her saying "Paladin is religious, therefore Paladin believes all religious people." Historically that's completely inaccurate. Does anybody have any idea how many wars have been started throughout history have been declared because one religious sect didn't trust another?
Lol, how dumb do they have to be to have a massive hateboner for christianity while also ignoring one of the biggest issues of organized religion? The sheer inability to agree to disagree.
“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.” The fact that we now know Lucy to be willing to lie to make herself look like a victim means that we can now doubt her claims that she was ever treated badly by any religious people in the first place- oh it's still entirely possible she WAS, but but the mere fact that she's a liar means that NOTHING she says is trustworthy anymore.
@@LostArchivistPrudence tells you to err on the side of disbelief in this case. She's clearly shown a willingness to lie about someone (even going so far as to try to find their actual address) just because of their religious beliefs (that if the story is to be believed, weren't being pushed on anyone) and spread rumors about them being a terrible person in the presence of someone that knows the real story. Nothing she says about her past experiences with religious people can be beloeved because a simple "don't be an asshole" somehow turned into a massive rant about them being homophobic, singling her out, pushing their religion on the entire group, and trying to kill her in-game character after declaring them a witch
Lucy was out of line and absolutely ridiculous. I get the fear, but holy crap. Kudos to the individual that tried to make peace. That wasn't right and I hate that this person had that experience.
I think Lucy was perhaps expressing herself into the DnD world, of stuff that may have really happened to her. yeow. abused by religious people in the past? yeow. as Jordan Peterson said, abuse by someone portraying themselves to be a representative of Jesus can be the "ultimate betrayal". yeow.
That wasn’t fear. That was religious bigotry badly masked as the worst imitation of PTSD. She had Amber Heard in court levels of acting and “my truth”-ing.
@@H240909 Considering how warped this story makes her seem, I wouldn't be surprised if her "abuse by religious people" turned out to mean "some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door one time, and left me a pamphlet!", or maybe "my parents made me go to vacation bible school as a child, for a whole week!" LOL!
@@mikeb.1705 - No, you generally don't get that fucked up without some actual bad experiences. But having suffered abuse isn't an excuse to abuse other (innocent) people. Lucy was totally out of line. (If this happened as described, of course. I have a few doubts, as Lucy seems like a bad parody of an overzealous atheist...but extreme people do exist, so it's not impossible.)
Anybody who pulls the "I don't feel safe," card out anytime there's the least bit of interpersonal conflict should be avoided by the people who can actually perceive reality.
I grew up in Louisiana smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt, and I never saw any issues with our DnD sessions, even with druids and clerics, paladins too. Even the demons and devils in the monster manual never caused any problems.
so a domestic violence victim cant use their experience to combat domestic violence because doing so makes them worse than their abusers? yup woke logic at work
@@mouserr using your experience to prevent abuse and protect others is NOT the same thing as using your past trauma as an excuse to attack and insult innocent people. This isn't "woke", it's common fucking sense. I feel bad for someone if they've experienced trauma, but that does not give them a free pass to torture others who have done nothing wrong.
@@rebann i fully agree with what you've said. Whatever some has experienced in their life doesn't give them the right to project any of it on others. Not because one person (or more) did something that it means EVERYONE will do it. Humans can do both amazingly loving things and awfully attrocious things as well. That's just being human.
@@mouserrThat isn’t what they said and you know it. Using trauma to affect positive change is different from using trauma as an excuse to bully an innocent person.
@@mouserr no judgement but were you drunk or something when you wrote that, or maybe English isn't your first language? I only ask because what you wrote was... wrong, like you sound like you have head trauma or something.
Trauma or otherwise it sounds to me like Lucy tried to bait out any proof to validate her own beliefs she had already decided that OP was a bad person, regardless of what they would do or say and I doubt there was any chance of convincing her otherwise. Ironically in her fear of religious people she adopted the exact same zealotry that likely caused whatever trauma she had
I noticed the detail about party composition when I watched Drake's reading of this, and I can't help but imagine Lucy might have swayed character choices in a manner that could pigeon-hole OP into cleric or paladin.
Druid could have worked but that still leaves 2/3rds of the options as ones she would hate. Also not all druids or paladins have good healing implying that Cleric was the most likely choice.
Im a Traditional Catholic and have never had an issue with anyone at the table and I've played with all types and creeds. I even DM and still never had that issue.
Damn, dude. I've got some friends with some hardcore religious trauma, and they have extreme reactions to people talking about religion, but even they aren't like this. There are ways to bring those kind of traits into DnD, but this is pushing the boundary.
I don't know about 'pushing' the boundary. Seems to me she limbod under the boundary, waltzed over the boundary, played jumprope with the boundary, and then crossed so far over it that the group had to completely disassociate.
Honestly, thank you for this video. I can’t tell you the number of times I have been made to feel unwelcome by a group (not just D&D or gaming group) before even get to do more than introduce myself, because someone knows I am religious and they presume to know what I will act like
Here's my story: We were at a castle inhabited by all sorts of goblinoids, and we had just signed a mutually beneficial contract with their leader. We didn't like or trust them, but we needed their help, and their leader was someone our low-level party couldn't defeat as we were. That night, we found someone stalking the castle grounds. We managed to corner him and found out that it was a PC played by a new player the DM brought in. He was dressed in all white (I don't know why he thought that was a good idea; it made him very easy to spot), and when we asked why he was there and what he was doing, he said he was going to kill all the goblins because goblins are evil. Also, the moon told him he should. It was about then that we all silently noticed that he was a weeb playing an amalgamation of anime, comic book, and fantasy movie characters. We tried to explain that we couldn't let him do that since we needed their help. He didn't seem to understand the concept of "necessary evil", and spouted out lines about how if we teamed up with evil goblins, then that makes us evil too. The DM tried to defuse the situation to avoid PVP, but this lawful stupid nutjob had clearly watched too much Goblin Slayer and was unwilling to relent. It eventually led to PVP where we found out that he also had a mechanical owl familiar like Bubo from _Clash of the Titans_ . We easily beat him as he was outnumbered, and we all gave him a chance to change his mind and join us as a party member, but he said that he wouldn't. He then made a mistake that cost him dearly: he tried to act all badass like a manga protagonist and said that if we let him live, he would hunt us all down and kill us. Our pragmatic ranger took this threat to heart and cut his head off. We took his sword and his diary (he had actually written a full, cringy, in-character diary and sent it to the DM) and left him there. We don't really know what happened to the guy after that, but the DM told us that he didn't think the campaign was for him, so he wouldn't be making a new, less problematic character. Some people just can't handle a moral gray area campaign. Although our DM was outwardly neutral about the whole thing, the fact that he showed us the contents of the diary after our warlock insisted he wanted to read it tells us all we needed to know. We still sometimes joke about the absolute justice-loving Moon Knight wannabe and question whether or not his mechanical owl familiar will come seek revenge. My character still uses his +1 silver longsword (yes, it was silver) to this day, and in my mind, it's a single-edged messer (basically, the European equivalent of a katana) with a snow-white handle like the one on Sode no Shirayuki from _Bleach_ because that's 100% what that guy would have described it as.
It's truly sad to see how many people out there use the label of Christianity and other faiths to justify putting others down and stomping out other opinions. One thing I firmly believe as a Christian is that ignorance is not wisdom and we should all be able to get along and support each other, regardless of our differing beliefs. Just because we don't believe the same things doesn't mean that those we don't agree with should be dehumanized or looked down upon. True believers of the Christian faith- in my opinion and experience- should be willing to love all those around them and not force their beliefs on others. We are called to share the faith to those who are **wanting** and **searching** for it, those who are **willing** to hear it, not force it on people who don't want it. Common sense imo.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “ Mattew 7:1 Even the bible say you shouldn't stomp on others opinions. Cause in of the day, the Lord will judge everyone.
As a religious person, it’s honestly nice to see the religious not being the problem. I thought it was going to be a Christian DM remaking the Bible in D&D or something.
As a Christian myself who has seen many people deal with religious or church related trauma, I really hope she gets help. Many of my friends who have become Christians themselves, have had a negative and hurtful experience with the church that caused resentment. But after meeting true Christian’s and followers of Christ their opinions changed, over time obviously, but it was because they gave up their trauma and resentment and were able to move on.
I will never respect the church it is cancer growing on the otherwise good religious people of this world a group of elders controlling the freedom of individuals and their interactions with their god or goddess. I was never so betrayed for example I once invited a guest to my house at the age of seven we were atheists he was my first friend in our home we played and played and as usual, we talked and shared our way of the seeing world, when he heard our beliefs he said I would burn in hell with my family I was traumatized I had met true evil a threat to me so blatant and so wrong we are good people my family and me and this extremist tantamount to genocide and death of a "peaceful" religion. The second time I matured and realized my anger was toxic I stopped being hateful I made a new friend he was from some sect I didn't ask for I didn't care he was my friend that is all that mattered it was fine for a while but he did not like my lack of faith and kept trying to convert me I would tell him to stop but he would continue he would be very nice but occasionally attack me verbally on my character with me having done nothing to get such a response. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was his telling me he could heal people by chanting in tongues and holding his hand over them this person was dying of cancer I find it morose and beyond even the norms of churches which is funny because my ancestors were killed for there pagan beliefs and witchcraft or magic as they say and now it is bastardized by the same who burned them alive on pyres.
I too hope she gets help, but I for one doubt her entire story. I truly doubt she had any “traumatic” experiences with Christians in her life. Not saying she couldn’t have, but she blatantly lied on another Discord Server about what happened, so it makes me think she lied to the DM an everyone in the first place.
That's a charitable way of looking at it. But to me it looks like a lying narcissist found a group of people she could lord over as superior and hate on because of her victim mentality her sexuality alone gave her a pass. How someone could lie like that is just so disturbing
On one hand, your heart is in the right place but on the other, you can't just use a "No true scotsman". It is cold comfort and you can't really say the sweaty fanatics aren't real adherents of your faith seeing as they subscribe to the same scriptures.
She's not unhinged. Lucy had a high demand for oppression and suffered from an obvious lack of supply. It's not that she likes oppression, just that she likes what she can get from being oppressed (without actually being oppressed).
Sounds suspiciously like a lot of religious fanatics who insist that the Left is trying to take away their "freedom", when in reality all that being taken away from them is their right to be bigots.
Something tells me she LIKES being a perpetual victim. The usual type that lives for the attention. They need an excuse to be a complete pregidice A-hole then cry victim when called out. Then they roll to the next group and cry about the twisted story of the last. It's one hell of a psychosis for a therapist to work out.
Unfortunately, people like Lucy refuse to seek therapy because they believe what they're doing is just. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
"Yo will not have any other god before me" Is the actual christian law. You can belive in whatever god you want, just don't pray to them. The meaning is basically. "The Lord did not want His people to give their hearts, souls, and minds to anything ahead of Him". Christianity even acknowledges the egzistance of Egyptian gods.
If you're a conservative christian you are a literal stain on human existence that Jesus would be ashamed of. I got raised catholic and I know to help people less fortunate then me, different then me or ostracized by the elite. You disgust me.
Im the only Christian among my group which is comprised of my college buddies. Most of the time id I played cleric my best friend, DM and a hardcore atheist would automatically "homebrew God" into the campaign for me. This tale makes me so much more appreciative of him.
it's kinda ironic . 20-30 year ago, the mainstream christian activiste message about dnd and fantasy was that it was evil and the one of the diverse tolerence movement was that it was just a game and we should respect each other . Today the trend seem to be the opposite, with most christians being ok with fantasy and not really caring about it and most "tolerence mov" activiste being intolerent of anything they perceive as their opposition . like I said, ironic
@@DeadRobit29 true wich make the past hate of the christian pretty stupid and the modern hate of the anti religious even more irrational . Personally I'm on the live and let live philosophy and really can't understand how some people can be so active in thing they hate .
"Loudest and publicized" does not mean mainstream. Most Christians were okay with Pokémon and Harry Potter, yet by your logic everyone who ever attended a potluck was picketing bookstores and BurgerKing toys. The news made the satanic panic what it was, to the point I myself was assumed to be a devil worshipper in 2019 for playing D&D in a rural community, but they were confused when they saw me at church. When I got the chance to explain the game mechanics to them and that it was all pretend, no actual rituals or such, those few calmed down. The rest chose to stay in their bubble of hatred because the news told them D&D was bad. People on the whole are lazy and will not think for themselves. That's where "mainstream" gets any tread. What the loudest people say is the best will be the best due to their following. Even look at livestreams when a popular RUclipsr or someone sends their community over. That's the exact same phenomena that caused the satanic panic- a handful of powerful blowhard choosing emotion over fact and riling up their followers into hatred, who then use peer pressure irl and further spreads the original narrative.
This is a good example of modern victim mentality. When people are broken, instead of getting help they lash out with insanity and culture has leaned towards bowing to the insanity instead of actually trying to help people. Not only that, but in many circles you get victim brownie points for this stuff. You'll note that she even turns on her own friend shes known for ages as soon as she doesn't stand beside her and follow her crazy too.
It's always been like that. Heard of the crusades? What about war and cultural hatred lasting many generations past the cause of the Strife? Humanity is triiablistic at heart and this leads to victim mentality, since everyone wants their group to be the morally best one.
From my experience with these types, the trauma is usually unrelated to what they are angry about and is used to avoid addressing what happened. My guess is one or both of her parents were emotionally abusive and she convinced herself that it's Christianity that caused it.
Even worse is the possibility that Lucy might have been LYING or misinterpreted an innocent situation and decided to hate Christians and Christianity because it's "hip and cool."
Christians be cool. Christ is the ultimate on doing good for the poor and unfortunate. Now being right leaning... That gets you perma banned from my games. And usually the stores they're at, given the beliefs they have tend to slip out eventually.
@@oranganewton Bold claim. Now prove with statistics that the Christians murdered more than 280 million people? Tell me more people died in the name of Christian conquests than Islamic Jihad. And we haven't even gotten to the mother of all evil religions, yet. Communism!
Devout Christian and D & D DM with my 2 cents: I am sympathetic to OP, but can understand if Lucy was attacked by Christians using the same logic and tactics, how she would use those against OP as it's not unheard of. Sadly, while answering honestly and offering reassuring messages are a reasonable response, not all reasonable actions produce the expected results. While it would have been ideal to develop the relationship before the labels comes out, it doesn't sound like an opportunity was given. I appreciate the intent expressed by OP to show respect for everyone at the table and hope that respect and kindness are at all OP's games. I hope Lucy can feel safe and respected where she goes.
Ouch. I must admit, reading this made me question my initial reaction. I felt more anger towards the whole thing... But what you said... Comes from a truly loving place.
Comment #2; Yep. After reading this, it hit home deeper than I expected it to. I had to come back and thank you again for sharing such wisdom. Made me day ❤️
None of it excuses her behaviors. She needs to sort her shit out and drop the hostile behaviors. Her going to therapy to deal with that trauma instead of attacking other people is the correct option. When being treated cruelly, cruelty back is not wrong. She's lucky that she was dealing with reasonable kind people. That behavior will only fuck her.
@@thibni_ yeah but OP did confront her on the fact it is not okay to take her feelings out on someone who has not done anything to cause the problem nor her trauma. Just because something can trigger someone does not give them the right to dictate everything and everyone around them. This Lucy has exhibited traits of a personality disorder in just the short story we were told. The gaslighting, underhanded passive aggressive nature of the crap she tried to pull screams of mental health issues. Basicly take what Lucy lied to the DM about the messages between her and OP as her projecting her own nasty inner self onto OP. A little psychology can help you understand a lot. If I had such an encounter, I would want nothing to do with Lucy or any place she was at. Steer clear, one giant RED FLAG
@@rogerugarte8010 Of course. But speaking ill of her (which was my initial reaction) is far worse than what she did, from my perspective. I wouldn't want to play with said Lucy, but that doesn't give me the right to treat her any differently than how I would treat myself. Therefore, I had to reconsider my own words after reading this. But it doesn't excuse nor make it go away. She made her decision. And as I respect hers, she would have to respect mine. Simple as that
We always hear about the crazy religious fanatics, but so many people don't realize the anti religious fanatics are just as bad. As a religious person myself I have personally delt with more of them than I can count.
Dude, I don't get how some people seek the negative so hard to confirm their own personal beliefs to the point of lying. Misery loves company. Perspective is everything but that person sounds deadlocked into hate for anyone that doesn't think the same as them, I'm thinking not just in religion and maybe they will always feel the world is against them. Sad for them.
I'm an atheist and I'm just embarrassed by Lucy. Being an athiest is no excuse for being an asshole, and speaking frankly as someone who has been harassed by religious whackjobs in the past, not everyone's like that. Like a few of my Discord friends are religious and I've never had a problem with them even after I came out.
As an atheist, when you first brought up the religion question, I thought "Oh no," and then when you said that you decided to message her, I thought "DON'T DO IT MAN! ABORT MISSION! ABORT!!!!" It sucks that she was like that. I very much appreciate your take that dnd is very much just a game where we play pretend, and religious views and experiences from the real world shouldn't cause problems for hobbies. P.S. When I heard that she claimed "religious people aren't mentally developed enough to question their superiors," I thought "WHAT?!" It happens a lot. It's a big part of why there are different sects of religions, and sometimes a reason why people move to different places of worship of the same sect to not deal with one leader. Sometimes leaders are deposed because of this. Sometimes people question the leaders and leave religion behind or go to a different religion. It can be hard to not see red and only think of the B.S. when you get bad blood with some aspect of religion or religious group-I'm not immune to that- but I hope she's dealing with it better today than she did then, and I hope to handle it more consistently well myself as time goes on.
I was the only LG good character in a party of CN/CE characters. It did not go over well. I was playing a blind monk when we went to a small town where we were asked to investigate a string of murders/disappearances. the mayor was showing us around and started acting a little sus. Trying to confront him, he fled, and everyone started throwing attacks. When the town guards came to see what the commotion was about, they failed to see the mayor's body, and fell for every single persuasion/deception check made that very moment that all the chaotic characters used to claim that they were the mayor. Except for me, who tried to tell the truth. they had the town guards tackle me and render me unconscious, even the I was not resisting arrest. I woke up in a cell under the influence of a hold person spell cast by our card master (A spell caster that uses a deck of cards). the card master took this time to try intimidating me, a blind LG monk, to keep me away from his daughter (even though there are several way more likely candidates to do a anything besides me). He left with my cell door open, and the party vampire took the opportunity to drink up some of my blood. There are several mistakes made that day on my part. I was in a party that played very different from me, which isn't always a bad thing, but it was this time. And I was the only LG character. I don't hate the guys who participated, but I don't think I want to play with many of them again.
How could some be do that, one of the points of DND is to escape real world problems by going into a fantasy world, real life problems is one of the reasons isekai animes are so popular, how could someone ruin a game by brining irl problems into the game, that is so messed up.
As an agnostic man in a gay relationship, behavior like that is unacceptable, and that person had no right to do so. you and your GM handled things very well. You also have an excellent and mature view on approaching TTRPGs. I'm sure you already know it, but I would like to give a reminder that you did nothing wrong if you ever had a doubt.
Live and let live isn't a religious thing, it's common human decency. Everyone has a right to be the best them, nobody has the right to question, belittle, or revoke that.
She literally tries to force her beliefs on him and his character and then has the gall to claim he tried to force his beliefs on her by defending himself.
Yeah, stuff like this is why I am hesitant to come out about my faith to my group of 2+ years. I like my group, and am really good friends with the DM (we were solid friends back in high school), I just don’t want to be antagonized or belittled (especially since I am the last person to join the group and the last campaign we have now put on pause was my first).
Tbh i havent ran into religious nutjobs playing dnd. Even the hardcore chistian grandparent didnt mind, thiught it was wierd but intrested. Howver i have ran into the anti religious nutjub multiple times either in my own game or ones im part of. (The nutcases ive ran into the most seem to be the bring their identify politics and sexuality everywhere and hate everyone else, or the anti religious freaks)
It is never a good idea to tell a player how to play their character, unless they ask. If the rogue wants to think all religious people act that way, she's free to be wrong, but obviously the rogue's player can't disassociate herself from her character. Granted, there are people who act like how the player believes religious people act, but christians aren't all one hive mind.
It would have been a cool interaction between the rogue and paladin. But since the game and real world were breached and true intention are more revealed it just becomes toxic.
It’s nice to hear of a good Christian being a decent person. I’m sorry the homie had to go through this, but that’s life ig. Glad it ended without too many problems, though
The vast majority of Christians are good, caring people. You just only remember the unhinged ones/the ones the media raves about. Trust me, they are few and far between.
That's what I thought. This just proves we are all HUMAN and there are crazies in EVERY group (religious, atheist, political, race, sex, you name a group). Not one group has a monopoly unless you are a crazy then everyone on the other side is "crazy."
the Lucy thing reminds that when you email someone you should also forward the the exact email to a neutral 3rd party so the first one can't say you were hateful.
when I made a cleric for the first time, i felt the need to make a wholesome character based on Christian beliefs and was inspired by Pyke from Crit Role. I made an elf named Nethelas using Illmater as the deity reference. This made for good comedy sessions as he had an obsession with bread, can make wine from water, used an alms box to collect and donate to unfortunate people, and made you sign a pamphlet for a community night just like Aqua's axis cult. He never forcefully imposed his beliefs on others but gave them a chance to be forgiven and redeemed. He had a healthy respect of other races and cultures in the feywild and just wanted to make the best of things even in the darkest of situations. Chatting with the DM and players about this build will hopefully help sort things out as we all just want to play D&D.
It takes no effort to be polite especially when others are trying to respect and be polite to you. Over the last couple of years when I hear stories like this now I can no longer trust something actually happened to them and that it's not an attempt to gain attention/sympathy from others as they have nothing else going for them. There are bad people in everything and the actual good ones should be acknowledged as good instead of lumped in with the bads and treated poorly just for being X. People respond to positive reinforcement but if doing good gets them treated poorly it can lead to them no longer trying to do good and simply being mean to everyone. Yes I know bad things happen and I'm not saying they don't, I've just seen too many faking their bs to harm others and cash in pity points.
The OP in this story did a great job of both understanding Lucy and her character's position and not letting her continue to harass him or other people in the group! And a huge 👍 to the DM for taking control of the situation and not letting a player control the game or ruin the other's fun! I think this is a great lesson on how to deal with people who are as downright belligerent as Lucy. Maybe in the future Lucy will "grow up" and figure out that not everyone is mean-spirited and she doesn't have to be either.
People like Lucy are why I rarely bring up my own religious belief (Christian if you're wondering) as it can get obnoxious and depressing hearing people bash on something I believe in greatly when I don't do the same thing to them
@@scarecrow9239 Yeah, I'm also a nondenominational Christian, my character was a neutral evil summoner who is on the path of redemption in the Kingmaker campaign.
I like my characters to reflect my IRL personality. So when confronted with "the gay", I and my character tend to have the reaction of "shifts around uncomfortably in silence" or "looks away in disgust" during PDA's. I don't need to go any further than that. I get the message, they get the message, no need for a conversation about it.
It angered me to see someone like Lucy act this way. I posted an initial comment, but retracted it after reading a specific comment about this and made me rethink about my approach. DnD is meant to be imaginary, don't take in your personal beef and issues and problems into and then immediately follow up with irregularities towards one of the players whom you don't even know. Make friends first. Learn about who they are and what they're about after. Once you do that, you can learn to overlook the difference and find a peaceful ground with which you can interact with instead of stuffing down your personal beliefs on someone you never met. Y'know?
I'm Christian and for the longest time, my DM was a Trans Gnostic. Which if you know anything about theology, Gnostics and Christians are similar in theme, but absolutely disagree with one another. Even then, We got along well. Even had some long discussions about religion. But at the end of it all, we still respected one another. Not every Christian is a horror story. Most Christians that give us a bad wrap most likely are brand new to the theology, or haven't studied enough to understand how to act or that we are here to love one another. The core of Christianity is the understanding that we are all seriously flawed. But even with those flaws, we are forgiven so long as we accept what Jesus did for us. Christians aren't bad people. Yes, we get on your nerves sometimes, but we believe with our whole being that we are to love one another.
Honestly, as a DM myself, I believe Lucy was clearly just using her past trauma, whatever it may be, as a terrible excuse to treat the OP poorly for his faith. I pray that she gets the help she needs - and she does clearly need it - but she was absolutely out of line and she should have been jettisoned from the game after ONE warning. The fact that the DM let her continue after she was shown to have fabricated an entire conversation is extremely upsetting, and that NEVER should have happened. I hope that she gets the help she truly needs, but her behavior was absolutely inexcusable.
Corrupt priest: She's a Witch! Kill her! (Angel poofs next to him) Angel: Nah she's good, he just wants you to kill her because of this. (Angel shows Corrupt priest being corrupt) Corrupt priest: ..........(Runs from angry mob)
Well that was a plot twist. Based on the title, I thought the Christian was going to be the problem. :D Refreshing. Fortunately, I have never had this crazy a person in my games, but I did have a lade on a PBP server I GM for leave because here stat roll was below 35 point buy (Pathfinder 1e). If you don't know, the average character has around 20 point buy, and the server is really generous with rolls. She got extra mad when I took one of her arrays and made a pretty awesome demon hunter ranger with it. :D
I'm glad I have a better situation. I'm not religious but not against religion. My dm? Devout Christian. Yes it causes some issues like a sensitivity with devils which became an issue when having a fiend pact warlock but we worked it out in a way he wouldn't have to roleplay any diabolical characters. Long story short his strict adherance to religious doctrine may be a bit of an issue for me at times, but its totally definitely worth giving an inch for the mile he gives me as being my best friend and a massive positive influence on my life. I would never give him a hard time for his religion, because he claims its ehat guides him to be what I see as, a very valuable and caring friend.
The Critic segment hurt me, as I had a player like that (except the Critical Role type) until he left. Which made the game much more enjoyable, as even though he was right about some things he conveyed them in the worst way possible and sucked my attention away from other players. A year later me and a couple of friends dropped out of his game so it's a bit telling. Friendship broken too
Lucy is the type of person that would probably be a bad person no matter what she believed. She's got that mindset. Everyone else is wrong and I am right.
It's things like this that make finding a group hard. I'm pretty Lawful Good and Christian so I don't often feel comfortable roleplaying certain things. Sometimes people want to have sex or whatever and I'm just uncomfortable. For me I find it just easier to quietly leave the group and let people be people. I'd probably find an excuse like I'm busy but I'd try to be nice about it. If they ask it's good to be honest but a game isn't worth ruining friendships.
I am a Christian, currently without a church due to a sicism within my church. I am also Bi, love RPGs, endorse gay marriage civilly but not in church. You can come at me but I've been out for over 20 years, had suicide attempts all because off who I was attracted to. I spent a lot of time praying and talking with other LGBT people in my church, before coming to an answer that I felt worked for God and me. I love to play religious characters because there is more ways of devoting oneself to a religion then most know. My church alway emphasized works of charity. Thus I play clerics who are willing to show the love and devotion of thier God through thier actions more then sermons. Though depending on the God I pick to serve, sermons may be given. I enjoy being support and showing through play that I am not the pushy Christian most people around my husband assume I must be based on my beliefs and never having actually meet or talked with me.
TTRPGs have been a part of my life for a long time. I am also part of every group that gets kicked around for being wrong just for breathing these days. (Christian, pale, cis, male, veteran, old, conservative views on most issues...) But those who game with me know that I have nothing but love for them. I disagree with some of their lifestyles. And their politics. I still treat them like I would want to be treated myself. I give life advice when I can, as I have a pair of boots older than some of them... pesky college kids. ;) My rule is that we can agree to disagree and have fun playing. If you want to have a respectful discussion on something- I'm ok with that after the session. Sarcasm, puns, and "Dad Jokes" however are non-negotiable... only the rate of use can be lowered. Some things y'all just have to live with
I am a devoted Christian, and yes, I have triggers regarding real life religion, not just Christianity. I always tell my GMs beforehand and we always habe a blast i our campaigns. Also, I can say that I am sane enough to differentiate between roleplay and real life, and not force my view into others. Karen will always be Karen, even though she was Lucy
That went from 10 to 100 real quickly. This is a fantasy game. Most play to escape real life. Don't bring religion into it unless fantasy religion if it is important to story or character.
I've been harassed by religious folks, and honestly, I'm not innocent in that regard either. But seriously, in D&D or ANY ttrpg, getting combative with players due to religious or non-religious affiliations is not cool. Lucy is the clear aggressor here. I am anti-theist IRL. But when it comes dnd games, I'm just there to have fun. I don't give a damn about religious affiliations IRL when playing a game. You are either there to have fun or be the problem, clearly Lucy chose to be the problem. People play D&D not just for the fun & excitement it offers, but also to escape the real world bs. And Lucy, she brought the real world bs into it. She sounds like one of those perpetual victims that LOOK for things to be offended by, and I'm betting if she didn't find it, she likely would've started the crap with the DM instead. I don't care what her justification is, she's in the wrong, and really deserved to be removed.
I am beginning to wonder if Lucy's stories of woe were exaggerated? Not to say it did not happen, but it makes you think, how much is true and how much are her own projections?
Some people want to play the victim. In life and game. Met others who act like this. It doesn't make sense to me. Note: I'm diagnosed with ptsd+asd. I don't use it for sympathy. I go to therapy to help. It works I'm better than I was last year.
I know someone who chronically lies that their family physically and mentally abused them as a child and use that to get sympathy online and run GoFundMes, turned their parent's dog into an emotional support dog to get sympathy in public and took the dog with when they moved out of state, and gets passive aggressive or hostile to anyone who questions them or wrongs them (which is usually just anyone who doesn't do what they want).
@Revan 7even Yhea, they're definitely unhealthy. I've cut the people out of my life who act this way. I want to heal from the Childhood and SA I delt with. I don't want sympathy, I want to not hurt. People like that just feel manipulative.
This is more the lesson of “Don’t tell other players how to play their characters” and “Stop projecting your problems onto me” all at the same time. Okay, I understand that the “Problem Player” themself has a IRL history with organized religions but that isn’t an excuse to constantly cause trouble in a game with other people who haven’t done anything to you.
I'm a former christian, but christianity is still a major part of my identity and I've a positive view of religion in general, and let me tell you, just as I'm bothered by players making bigoted jokes, I'm bothered by players that can't keep their disdain for religion out of the table. The amount of players I've had who would go out of their way to kill religious NPCs or that would give grief to players who decided to be a Cleric or Paladin is mental. Like, you don't like when people complain that you're playing a female fighter or a black elf? Cool, I also don't like that, so let's not be hypocritical and let people play their religious characters in peace.
Well that’s weird, it’s almost like the rogue wanted a stereotypical lawful stupid bigot in the table, most of the times she attacked OP was for not following said stereotype
Yeah, I'm getting a feeling that Lucy's story about religious folks is slightly untrue. Reminds me of the kids at the zoo who provoke animals then cry when they get bit.
I think Lucy was playing her character possibly correctly who had history being damaged by a religious group, but way overstepped when she brought these same aspect to the players. Had she said my character doesn't like or trust your character based on her experiences, that would have been fine but the personal attacks on the player are way out of line. Then the absolute lies in the threads afterwards just confirm that Lucy is toxic no matter what her beliefs are.
I don't really understand why when some peoples have problems with some religions, they became anti-religious. I mean, i sure understand why they would hate the faith that hurted them but why putting ALL religions in the same basket? Religions can be vastly differents from one another on their teachings, virtues or what they deem acceptable or not. And why take it out on fictionnal religions and characters? And why wouldn't it be ok for a religious player to make a character that believe in another god than his irl one? It's a fictionnal game, why does it matter? It's like she thought doing that would make you renounce your faith. 9:25 That... is blatantly discriminatory and ignorance. Honestly, i'm shocked even she genuinely believe that because you're religious, you're too mentally retarded to have your own opinion or would say amen to anything religious because it's religious. She clearly don't know religious peoples as well as she believe. Sure, some are braindead but it's not the case of each and all of them. It's so sad that she can't even see how much in the wrong she is. It's so sad she took out her problems on you and your game.
This is why I’m glad My town has enough players to where I have the option to only play in person games. People are way less likely to try this outside of the internet and internet campaigns can attract perfectly chill folk or people who aren’t welcome in campaigns in their area and so bring their madness to online games
Me(an atheist): so my character is a Russian Orthodox Priest who's come to America to join the monster hunters so they'll help him fight the demons he believes infiltrated the Kremlin. I've actively memorized exerps of real exercism prayers for rp
When I just left religion I was a pretty spiteful anti-theist. Looking back at it its kinda shameful, but after listening to the story I feel much better cuz even that mid-to-late-teen me wasnt such an insufferable asshole.
Sounds like that Lucy person is an excelent antagonist NPC or a curse or something. Maybe someone can use it in future campains, could be very fun used in a smart way (funy in an anoying way). Something like 'Lucy Flare the Chaotic Kween of Lies', she doesn't care about moving on she just likes and overjoyce randomly disrupting quests/campains/conversations/spells/fights/etc, she feast on chaotic energy; she carries a magic 'Bag of Wasp Buzzing' that has no other use than to anoy the people she crosses path with (can't be silenced).
I once ran a campaign with someone like that Rogue. They explicitly told me anything Pseudo-Christian related was really triggering and tried to single out the Cleric of the party for being Catholic out of the game. Was really disruptive and one time took it upon themselves to spend the session under blankets on my couch fuming instead of playing. That was one of the quickest times I opted to disinvite someone to the table.
I understand that many people struggle with trauma and that we need to be respectful of people's needs and triggers. But if it's to the point they can't even interact with a decent religious person, then they seriously need to do some soul-searching on their own end, because they've turned their personal trauma into outright discrimination. I got my issues with religion too, but so long as a follower isn't forcing their beliefs on my or using their beliefs to justify hateful or bigoted actions, I'll respect them the same as anybody else.
Don't blame you whatsoever. I understand that they endured trauma related to catholicism or Christian faith in general, but to act out, lie, slander and throw a tantrum is inexcusable. Do not at all blame you for showing this individual the door.
It was pretty rough - as someone who experienced this sort of thing first hand - I get it. I empathized with them, but not every person of faith is going to be closeminded. In fact, I lived with that Catholic guy for close to 4-5 years in total. He was always super chill.
Could it have been the same person? That sounds wild.
@@NickHunt Not sure. They played a changeling wizard with a snow fox for a familiar. (3.5 weeee)
Is it just me or did Lucy seem to get angry at OP for not acting like the stereotype she expected? I wonder if she got so freaked out because she was confronted by a Christian who wasn’t hateful and that would have resulted in a paradigm shift that she just wasn’t willing to consider. It’s creepy that she was lying to another group about OP, painting him as a controlling, homophobic, and hostile, and then wanted to know where he lived. I don’t know what trauma Lucy’s gone through, but I hope she heals from it and doesn’t just let hatred fester.
Nah, fuck that bitch. Let her suffer.
Honestly, given the lies Lucy was spreading to other servers, makes me wonder if she was ever telling the truth about her past.
She never went through trauma, she's a liar, as seen by how she lied as easily and often as breathing.
Shes a alphabet soup psychopath trying to lynch people who play a video game.
With so many people like justifying their hyper delusions I do not have a drop of sympathy, that well is so dry from too many of her type of personality over abusing others good will they maxed out their victim cards.
Lucy sounds a bit like one of those people on twitter who find something they disagree with and they twist it so the other person sounds like the worst type of living being in existence.
And that is why you don't answer random, out of the blue questions from people you don't know without any context. If they're immediately jumping you with an awkward question, that's an immediate red flag they're waving in your face. Personally, I wouldn't have answered until context or a solid explanation was provided. If they couldn't/wouldn't do that, then they don't get their answer.
Exactly
same thing I was thinking. I would answer with I choose not to disclose that information.
I think that may just be prolonging the inevitable. Lucy seemed pretty unhinged.
I would never of answered her, I would say it's none of her business
Given that Lucy is obviously portrayed as a habitual liar, I wonder just what that "bad" problem was her twisting the actual events all out of proportion.
I think that may be the case. I've known people who take events and twist them in the mind to the point where it's completely disconnected from reality. For all we know, she may not have suffered from a religious trauma... but is taking potentially innocent events and lying about what really happened.
@@nickchavez720 I’ll be honest, I think that is what happened. She probably grew up loathing a guy or girl that was a devout Christian growing up and probably drastically took anything they said out of context. I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole “hating my sexuality thing” was just a Christian she tried to press turn around and tell her that they don’t care about her sexuality, but they will not support it/the sin.
I've met ppl like "lucy" heck I lived with two of em, I'd say she's a narcissist. If I had to guess she probs suffered some trauma as a small child maybe physical, sexual, or mental leading to her mental issues (habitual lying/narcissism) and never got treatment for that trauma. Flash forward to middle school high school age Lucy is at a point in her life where she's probably miserable due to her lack of therapy for trauma and with hormones flaring, she is left wanting to feel some kind of power whether consciously or subconsciously, she picked at a kid, more than likely a popular kid because she believes she is the best due to her narcissism, and she probably was horrible to this kid unrelated to her issues in any way. But they were more than likely a Christian and wound-up and poked back in some way and Lucy attributes that as her preexisting trauma and since that has become her story over the years, she clings to it and attacks people for literally no reason.
A lot of the time narcissism is defensive toxic behavior. You suffer trauma and are made to feel unloved or unwanted or unattractive therefore you overcorrect and believe yourself to be beautiful beyond measure or infallible. And with this deluded sense of self come the lies, it is impossible to maintain that hyper-inflated view of self without lying to others and to yourself. And often times because of the narcissist's inflated view of self they don't want to address the moments that truly made them feel less than, so they lie and say something that wasn't traumatic actually was. That way they get everything they want, sympathy, attention, praise, etc. without having to actually address their real trauma.
It's honestly a really sad way to live and if my assumed assessment is in anyway true then I pray Lucy seeks some treatment and healing otherwise she'll grow bitter and resentful never addressing her true trauma in a healthy way. Her relationships will always fail, and she'll never grow as a person, she'll remain trapped in her view of self and that is a horrible fate.
I hope Lucy learned from this experience. As an atheist one has to realize that religion is private, and a valid opinion. As much as I don’t want them to ram their beliefs down my throat, they don’t want me tearing down their faith.
It'd be wonderful if people could just live and let live. But the temptation to call people "Stupid" or "Bad" because they don't agree with you, is just to big for some people... It's disappointing, is what it is.
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say she most certainly did not.
She tried to dox op, I hope she gets smacked
@@DellikkilleD call it a crazy assumption, but i don't think you're an entirely pleasant person. but i hope that someday you can grow out of it friend 😄
@@MrYac-ie8ie fair I doubt you are even a person at all, so I guess that leaves us even. Ill take unpleasant over delusional any day. Unpleasant people dont get people killed ;)
Unfortunately this is a situation that almost always happens. All you can do is keep your cool and report the behavior to the dm. If the dm has your back, like the dm had op’s back, then the problem player won’t be a problem for long. If the dm doesn’t have your back maybe consider leaving as the problem player now knows they can get away with being a problem and will only ruin the experience.
Always happens??
@Victor RosenHeart yeah it happened to me.
@@victorrosenheart8036 if I had to put a number to it I’d estimate that a good 60-80% of all games have at least one problem player and about 20-40% of them have DMs/ GMs who are either in over their heads, don’t know what they are doing, or let problem players run the show when they should be. Keep in mind that this is just what I’ve seen based on games I have either played in or run.
consider leaving? no question leave. playing a game isn't worth the childishness of others.
In this day and age it's good to be careful of anyone whose voting Right in their name a country/state/province. Doesn't matter how reasonable they seem, they're literally supporting violence against people anyway. People can be polite and still monsters.
That said, to attack someone because their christian is ridiculous. Being christian only makes it significantly likely you're a bigot, not guaranteed. Gotta check first. Plenty of nice Christians actually following what Jesus said and helping those less fortunate and defending them from hate with love. They are not the ones voting for the guys trying to get people arrested for being assigned the wrong gender at birth.
We played D&D at seminary.
Quite honestly I thought it was going to be the story of a player leaving because his or her church was scandalized by the game.
Unfortunately I was expecting the same, and I’m Christian fr.
Those also happen, I do not know if this channel in particular covered any, they hapen to be often very similiar.
@@IdiotinGlans I know that they do and are. It's a pity when it does.
you are about 30-40 years to late for that to happen. Now we have the inverse problem it seems....
I’m in vocational ministry and expected the same!
I'm glad to see I'm not the only Christian fan of this channel. Dnd is always a blast when players respect each other enough to come together and have fun.
We're here, and the past stories about extremist Christian players disgust me. Just live and let live, no need to force beliefs (religious or otherwise) down others' throats.
I completely agree. I’m a Christian as well, and I think we should just be nice to people. The minority of extremist Christian players have kind of left a stain on the rest of us. I imagine I wasn’t the only one who thought that the story would be about one of those players.
@@blakeduckly2875 thank you!
I’m an atheist and think this person in the story is a jackass. I have plenty of issues with religion, however the gaming table is not the time or place. Nor should one paint everyone with such a broad brush. It’s so rude.
I'm Christian too
Actually, I'm the only religious person in my DnD group but everyone is chill.
Personally, if someone like Lucy joined my group and started poking the bear. I'm not above pulling some movie villain shit in campaign and become their sole antagonist
That's just me tho, I get a kick out of rattling someone's chains that decides to mess with me for no reason
I think the funniest thing is her saying "Paladin is religious, therefore Paladin believes all religious people." Historically that's completely inaccurate. Does anybody have any idea how many wars have been started throughout history have been declared because one religious sect didn't trust another?
Like half the wars in the 1500s and 1600s Europe.
Lol, how dumb do they have to be to have a massive hateboner for christianity while also ignoring one of the biggest issues of organized religion? The sheer inability to agree to disagree.
Encyclopedia of Wars has the figure of Religion being the main cause of 6.9% of armed conflicts
To my knowledge at least 3 crusades.
@@NicoBlack69 Crusades were in response to Muslim invasions of Anatolia and the Eastern Roman Empire
“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
The fact that we now know Lucy to be willing to lie to make herself look like a victim means that we can now doubt her claims that she was ever treated badly by any religious people in the first place- oh it's still entirely possible she WAS, but but the mere fact that she's a liar means that NOTHING she says is trustworthy anymore.
my thoughts exactly my friend. She could've been mistreated, but she immediately took to lying to smear op which puts her whole history into question.
Sadly few LGBTQ people are like that their side lgbtq toxic want be victims they even toxic other gays
Agree
I think that can be dangerous if she was and has a deeply inset trauma. Be prudent, but don`t risk being harmful.
@@LostArchivistPrudence tells you to err on the side of disbelief in this case. She's clearly shown a willingness to lie about someone (even going so far as to try to find their actual address) just because of their religious beliefs (that if the story is to be believed, weren't being pushed on anyone) and spread rumors about them being a terrible person in the presence of someone that knows the real story. Nothing she says about her past experiences with religious people can be beloeved because a simple "don't be an asshole" somehow turned into a massive rant about them being homophobic, singling her out, pushing their religion on the entire group, and trying to kill her in-game character after declaring them a witch
Lucy: "So are you taking his side now?"
The GM handles it well, but the correct answer would have been "Yes."
Lucy was out of line and absolutely ridiculous. I get the fear, but holy crap.
Kudos to the individual that tried to make peace. That wasn't right and I hate that this person had that experience.
I think Lucy was perhaps expressing herself into the DnD world, of stuff that may have really happened to her. yeow. abused by religious people in the past? yeow. as Jordan Peterson said, abuse by someone portraying themselves to be a representative of Jesus can be the "ultimate betrayal". yeow.
@@samjohnson3124No one is disputing what happened to her is f’ed up. But using her trauma to bully and harass an innocent person is just wrong.
That wasn’t fear. That was religious bigotry badly masked as the worst imitation of PTSD. She had Amber Heard in court levels of acting and “my truth”-ing.
@@H240909 Considering how warped this story makes her seem, I wouldn't be surprised if her "abuse by religious people" turned out to mean "some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door one time, and left me a pamphlet!", or maybe "my parents made me go to vacation bible school as a child, for a whole week!" LOL!
@@mikeb.1705 - No, you generally don't get that fucked up without some actual bad experiences. But having suffered abuse isn't an excuse to abuse other (innocent) people. Lucy was totally out of line. (If this happened as described, of course. I have a few doubts, as Lucy seems like a bad parody of an overzealous atheist...but extreme people do exist, so it's not impossible.)
Anybody who pulls the "I don't feel safe," card out anytime there's the least bit of interpersonal conflict should be avoided by the people who can actually perceive reality.
I don't know Lucy. But I did know someone who likes to stretch the truth to gain sympathy. Lucy sounds like that kind of person.
I grew up in Louisiana smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt, and I never saw any issues with our DnD sessions, even with druids and clerics, paladins too.
Even the demons and devils in the monster manual never caused any problems.
People that use their past trauma as a weapon against others are the absolute worst.
so a domestic violence victim cant use their experience to combat domestic violence because doing so makes them worse than their abusers? yup woke logic at work
@@mouserr using your experience to prevent abuse and protect others is NOT the same thing as using your past trauma as an excuse to attack and insult innocent people. This isn't "woke", it's common fucking sense. I feel bad for someone if they've experienced trauma, but that does not give them a free pass to torture others who have done nothing wrong.
@@rebann i fully agree with what you've said.
Whatever some has experienced in their life doesn't give them the right to project any of it on others.
Not because one person (or more) did something that it means EVERYONE will do it.
Humans can do both amazingly loving things and awfully attrocious things as well.
That's just being human.
@@mouserrThat isn’t what they said and you know it. Using trauma to affect positive change is different from using trauma as an excuse to bully an innocent person.
@@mouserr no judgement but were you drunk or something when you wrote that, or maybe English isn't your first language? I only ask because what you wrote was... wrong, like you sound like you have head trauma or something.
Trauma or otherwise
it sounds to me like Lucy tried to bait out any proof to validate her own beliefs
she had already decided that OP was a bad person, regardless of what they would do or say and I doubt there was any chance of convincing her otherwise.
Ironically in her fear of religious people she adopted the exact same zealotry that likely caused whatever trauma she had
I noticed the detail about party composition when I watched Drake's reading of this, and I can't help but imagine Lucy might have swayed character choices in a manner that could pigeon-hole OP into cleric or paladin.
Would not surprise me in the slightest
Druid could have worked but that still leaves 2/3rds of the options as ones she would hate. Also not all druids or paladins have good healing implying that Cleric was the most likely choice.
Im a Traditional Catholic and have never had an issue with anyone at the table and I've played with all types and creeds. I even DM and still never had that issue.
Damn, dude. I've got some friends with some hardcore religious trauma, and they have extreme reactions to people talking about religion, but even they aren't like this. There are ways to bring those kind of traits into DnD, but this is pushing the boundary.
I don't know about 'pushing' the boundary. Seems to me she limbod under the boundary, waltzed over the boundary, played jumprope with the boundary, and then crossed so far over it that the group had to completely disassociate.
Honestly, thank you for this video. I can’t tell you the number of times I have been made to feel unwelcome by a group (not just D&D or gaming group) before even get to do more than introduce myself, because someone knows I am religious and they presume to know what I will act like
Alternative title: player forced to deal with *that* kind of atheist
Funny because if she was Religious she would be a Zealot.
The worst kind of atheist: angry, biased and non-skeptical. As an atheist i hope she'll be better in the future.
She was more anti-religion or anti-followers than atheist.
@@Shroosk unfortunately, "daddy was mean to me so God doesn't exist," is the predominant form of Atheism in the US from what I've seen.
@@soujemn5tbh mine is "severe accident to a close loved one has made me not belive less concrete proof" atheist.
Here's my story: We were at a castle inhabited by all sorts of goblinoids, and we had just signed a mutually beneficial contract with their leader. We didn't like or trust them, but we needed their help, and their leader was someone our low-level party couldn't defeat as we were. That night, we found someone stalking the castle grounds. We managed to corner him and found out that it was a PC played by a new player the DM brought in. He was dressed in all white (I don't know why he thought that was a good idea; it made him very easy to spot), and when we asked why he was there and what he was doing, he said he was going to kill all the goblins because goblins are evil. Also, the moon told him he should. It was about then that we all silently noticed that he was a weeb playing an amalgamation of anime, comic book, and fantasy movie characters. We tried to explain that we couldn't let him do that since we needed their help. He didn't seem to understand the concept of "necessary evil", and spouted out lines about how if we teamed up with evil goblins, then that makes us evil too. The DM tried to defuse the situation to avoid PVP, but this lawful stupid nutjob had clearly watched too much Goblin Slayer and was unwilling to relent. It eventually led to PVP where we found out that he also had a mechanical owl familiar like Bubo from _Clash of the Titans_ . We easily beat him as he was outnumbered, and we all gave him a chance to change his mind and join us as a party member, but he said that he wouldn't. He then made a mistake that cost him dearly: he tried to act all badass like a manga protagonist and said that if we let him live, he would hunt us all down and kill us. Our pragmatic ranger took this threat to heart and cut his head off. We took his sword and his diary (he had actually written a full, cringy, in-character diary and sent it to the DM) and left him there. We don't really know what happened to the guy after that, but the DM told us that he didn't think the campaign was for him, so he wouldn't be making a new, less problematic character. Some people just can't handle a moral gray area campaign. Although our DM was outwardly neutral about the whole thing, the fact that he showed us the contents of the diary after our warlock insisted he wanted to read it tells us all we needed to know. We still sometimes joke about the absolute justice-loving Moon Knight wannabe and question whether or not his mechanical owl familiar will come seek revenge. My character still uses his +1 silver longsword (yes, it was silver) to this day, and in my mind, it's a single-edged messer (basically, the European equivalent of a katana) with a snow-white handle like the one on Sode no Shirayuki from _Bleach_ because that's 100% what that guy would have described it as.
I thought he was a kkk member
It's truly sad to see how many people out there use the label of Christianity and other faiths to justify putting others down and stomping out other opinions. One thing I firmly believe as a Christian is that ignorance is not wisdom and we should all be able to get along and support each other, regardless of our differing beliefs. Just because we don't believe the same things doesn't mean that those we don't agree with should be dehumanized or looked down upon. True believers of the Christian faith- in my opinion and experience- should be willing to love all those around them and not force their beliefs on others. We are called to share the faith to those who are **wanting** and **searching** for it, those who are **willing** to hear it, not force it on people who don't want it. Common sense imo.
Yeeeepppp!!!!
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “ Mattew 7:1
Even the bible say you shouldn't stomp on others opinions. Cause in of the day, the Lord will judge everyone.
As a religious person, it’s honestly nice to see the religious not being the problem. I thought it was going to be a Christian DM remaking the Bible in D&D or something.
Ironically that wouldn’t be to terrible tbh you could have fun with demon and angel conflict
@@surfer246810 Samson, Gideon, Elijah, David, Moses, Joshua, and Solomon could make for interesting bases for a character.
@@olympusgolemoflight7198 Heck even if it was fictional It'd be fun mythos.
On an unrelated note, DnD is too bitchmade for the OT, tbh. Want an OT game? Warhammer and Call of Cthulhu is where it is at.
Pulling anything religion or mythos stories is always alot of fun.
As a Christian myself who has seen many people deal with religious or church related trauma, I really hope she gets help. Many of my friends who have become Christians themselves, have had a negative and hurtful experience with the church that caused resentment. But after meeting true Christian’s and followers of Christ their opinions changed, over time obviously, but it was because they gave up their trauma and resentment and were able to move on.
I will never respect the church it is cancer growing on the otherwise good religious people of this world a group of elders controlling the freedom of individuals and their interactions with their god or goddess. I was never so betrayed for example I once invited a guest to my house at the age of seven we were atheists he was my first friend in our home we played and played and as usual, we talked and shared our way of the seeing world, when he heard our beliefs he said I would burn in hell with my family I was traumatized I had met true evil a threat to me so blatant and so wrong we are good people my family and me and this extremist tantamount to genocide and death of a "peaceful" religion. The second time I matured and realized my anger was toxic I stopped being hateful I made a new friend he was from some sect I didn't ask for I didn't care he was my friend that is all that mattered it was fine for a while but he did not like my lack of faith and kept trying to convert me I would tell him to stop but he would continue he would be very nice but occasionally attack me verbally on my character with me having done nothing to get such a response. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was his telling me he could heal people by chanting in tongues and holding his hand over them this person was dying of cancer I find it morose and beyond even the norms of churches which is funny because my ancestors were killed for there pagan beliefs and witchcraft or magic as they say and now it is bastardized by the same who burned them alive on pyres.
I too hope she gets help, but I for one doubt her entire story. I truly doubt she had any “traumatic” experiences with Christians in her life. Not saying she couldn’t have, but she blatantly lied on another Discord Server about what happened, so it makes me think she lied to the DM an everyone in the first place.
That's a charitable way of looking at it. But to me it looks like a lying narcissist found a group of people she could lord over as superior and hate on because of her victim mentality her sexuality alone gave her a pass. How someone could lie like that is just so disturbing
@@partydean17 facts
On one hand, your heart is in the right place but on the other, you can't just use a "No true scotsman". It is cold comfort and you can't really say the sweaty fanatics aren't real adherents of your faith seeing as they subscribe to the same scriptures.
She's not unhinged. Lucy had a high demand for oppression and suffered from an obvious lack of supply. It's not that she likes oppression, just that she likes what she can get from being oppressed (without actually being oppressed).
Sounds suspiciously like a lot of religious fanatics who insist that the Left is trying to take away their "freedom", when in reality all that being taken away from them is their right to be bigots.
Well said
Lucy just needs some serious therapy to help deal with the trauma
Something tells me she LIKES being a perpetual victim. The usual type that lives for the attention. They need an excuse to be a complete pregidice A-hole then cry victim when called out. Then they roll to the next group and cry about the twisted story of the last. It's one hell of a psychosis for a therapist to work out.
Unfortunately, people like Lucy refuse to seek therapy because they believe what they're doing is just. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Being a conservative Christian who plays TTRPGs and miniature games as been wild at times but I never had it that bad.
We ought to start a Community: 'Tabletop and Trinity' or 'Christ & Crits'
"Yo will not have any other god before me"
Is the actual christian law.
You can belive in whatever god you want, just don't pray to them.
The meaning is basically.
"The Lord did not want His people to give their hearts, souls, and minds to anything ahead of Him".
Christianity even acknowledges the egzistance of Egyptian gods.
If you're a conservative christian you are a literal stain on human existence that Jesus would be ashamed of. I got raised catholic and I know to help people less fortunate then me, different then me or ostracized by the elite. You disgust me.
@@whitefox3189 Christianity does not accept the existence of any deity besides the God of Abraham. At least not the Apostolic faiths.
@@whitefox3189"egzistance"?
Im the only Christian among my group which is comprised of my college buddies. Most of the time id I played cleric my best friend, DM and a hardcore atheist would automatically "homebrew God" into the campaign for me. This tale makes me so much more appreciative of him.
Lucy needed therapy
Thank god the rest of this group was sane enough to be logical about this situation
"Hey calm down, don't attack me like that!" - the only person being aggressive and confrontational over literally nothing
it's kinda ironic .
20-30 year ago, the mainstream christian activiste message about dnd and fantasy was that it was evil and the one of the diverse tolerence movement was that it was just a game and we should respect each other .
Today the trend seem to be the opposite, with most christians being ok with fantasy and not really caring about it and most "tolerence mov" activiste being intolerent of anything they perceive as their opposition .
like I said, ironic
You forget that the most iconic author of fantasy J.R.R. Tolkien, was a devout Catholic, along with C.S. Lewis, the author of Narnia.
This Lucy person doesn't represent leftists. She was out of line in this, but it seems to be born out of some sort of past trauma.
@@DeadRobit29 true wich make the past hate of the christian pretty stupid and the modern hate of the anti religious even more irrational .
Personally I'm on the live and let live philosophy and really can't understand how some people can be so active in thing they hate .
I don't know if that was the main stream Christian view, so much as the extreme.
"Loudest and publicized" does not mean mainstream. Most Christians were okay with Pokémon and Harry Potter, yet by your logic everyone who ever attended a potluck was picketing bookstores and BurgerKing toys. The news made the satanic panic what it was, to the point I myself was assumed to be a devil worshipper in 2019 for playing D&D in a rural community, but they were confused when they saw me at church. When I got the chance to explain the game mechanics to them and that it was all pretend, no actual rituals or such, those few calmed down. The rest chose to stay in their bubble of hatred because the news told them D&D was bad.
People on the whole are lazy and will not think for themselves. That's where "mainstream" gets any tread. What the loudest people say is the best will be the best due to their following. Even look at livestreams when a popular RUclipsr or someone sends their community over. That's the exact same phenomena that caused the satanic panic- a handful of powerful blowhard choosing emotion over fact and riling up their followers into hatred, who then use peer pressure irl and further spreads the original narrative.
This is a good example of modern victim mentality. When people are broken, instead of getting help they lash out with insanity and culture has leaned towards bowing to the insanity instead of actually trying to help people. Not only that, but in many circles you get victim brownie points for this stuff. You'll note that she even turns on her own friend shes known for ages as soon as she doesn't stand beside her and follow her crazy too.
Perfectly said.
If they are broken at all and arent just claiming and pretending fot pandering attention.
I feel like we as a society enable certain types of people too much. Like, I get being kind and helpful, but it can be taken advantage of...
It's always been like that. Heard of the crusades? What about war and cultural hatred lasting many generations past the cause of the Strife? Humanity is triiablistic at heart and this leads to victim mentality, since everyone wants their group to be the morally best one.
"Religious people aren't mentally developed enough to question their superiors."
Ok, I'm not even religious and that's extremely insulting
"What was there to gain from that?"
Attention. There was attention to gain.
From my experience with these types, the trauma is usually unrelated to what they are angry about and is used to avoid addressing what happened. My guess is one or both of her parents were emotionally abusive and she convinced herself that it's Christianity that caused it.
It is the same with politics or hell even spots teams.
Even worse is the possibility that Lucy might have been LYING or misinterpreted an innocent situation and decided to hate Christians and Christianity because it's "hip and cool."
Christians be cool. Christ is the ultimate on doing good for the poor and unfortunate.
Now being right leaning... That gets you perma banned from my games. And usually the stores they're at, given the beliefs they have tend to slip out eventually.
Nothing ever wrong with hating the worst religion in history
@@oranganewton Bold claim.
Now prove with statistics that the Christians murdered more than 280 million people? Tell me more people died in the name of Christian conquests than Islamic Jihad.
And we haven't even gotten to the mother of all evil religions, yet. Communism!
Devout Christian and D & D DM with my 2 cents: I am sympathetic to OP, but can understand if Lucy was attacked by Christians using the same logic and tactics, how she would use those against OP as it's not unheard of. Sadly, while answering honestly and offering reassuring messages are a reasonable response, not all reasonable actions produce the expected results. While it would have been ideal to develop the relationship before the labels comes out, it doesn't sound like an opportunity was given. I appreciate the intent expressed by OP to show respect for everyone at the table and hope that respect and kindness are at all OP's games. I hope Lucy can feel safe and respected where she goes.
Ouch.
I must admit, reading this made me question my initial reaction. I felt more anger towards the whole thing...
But what you said... Comes from a truly loving place.
Comment #2;
Yep. After reading this, it hit home deeper than I expected it to.
I had to come back and thank you again for sharing such wisdom.
Made me day ❤️
None of it excuses her behaviors. She needs to sort her shit out and drop the hostile behaviors. Her going to therapy to deal with that trauma instead of attacking other people is the correct option. When being treated cruelly, cruelty back is not wrong. She's lucky that she was dealing with reasonable kind people. That behavior will only fuck her.
@@thibni_ yeah but OP did confront her on the fact it is not okay to take her feelings out on someone who has not done anything to cause the problem nor her trauma. Just because something can trigger someone does not give them the right to dictate everything and everyone around them. This Lucy has exhibited traits of a personality disorder in just the short story we were told. The gaslighting, underhanded passive aggressive nature of the crap she tried to pull screams of mental health issues. Basicly take what Lucy lied to the DM about the messages between her and OP as her projecting her own nasty inner self onto OP. A little psychology can help you understand a lot. If I had such an encounter, I would want nothing to do with Lucy or any place she was at. Steer clear, one giant RED FLAG
@@rogerugarte8010 Of course. But speaking ill of her (which was my initial reaction) is far worse than what she did, from my perspective. I wouldn't want to play with said Lucy, but that doesn't give me the right to treat her any differently than how I would treat myself. Therefore, I had to reconsider my own words after reading this.
But it doesn't excuse nor make it go away. She made her decision. And as I respect hers, she would have to respect mine. Simple as that
I can't take anyone named Lucy seriously anymore. All because of a joke.
"Well hi Lucy...fer" -Bill Engvall
"She looked at me like 'I set you ablaaaaze right now.'"
We always hear about the crazy religious fanatics, but so many people don't realize the anti religious fanatics are just as bad. As a religious person myself I have personally delt with more of them than I can count.
Dude, I don't get how some people seek the negative so hard to confirm their own personal beliefs to the point of lying. Misery loves company. Perspective is everything but that person sounds deadlocked into hate for anyone that doesn't think the same as them, I'm thinking not just in religion and maybe they will always feel the world is against them. Sad for them.
Ah the traditional "i dont like being confronted but will confront anyone else"
I'm an atheist and I'm just embarrassed by Lucy. Being an athiest is no excuse for being an asshole, and speaking frankly as someone who has been harassed by religious whackjobs in the past, not everyone's like that. Like a few of my Discord friends are religious and I've never had a problem with them even after I came out.
It is fun to know that Tolkien, the father of geekhood, was a profoundly devout catholic.
As an atheist, when you first brought up the religion question, I thought "Oh no," and then when you said that you decided to message her, I thought "DON'T DO IT MAN! ABORT MISSION! ABORT!!!!" It sucks that she was like that. I very much appreciate your take that dnd is very much just a game where we play pretend, and religious views and experiences from the real world shouldn't cause problems for hobbies. P.S. When I heard that she claimed "religious people aren't mentally developed enough to question their superiors," I thought "WHAT?!" It happens a lot. It's a big part of why there are different sects of religions, and sometimes a reason why people move to different places of worship of the same sect to not deal with one leader. Sometimes leaders are deposed because of this. Sometimes people question the leaders and leave religion behind or go to a different religion. It can be hard to not see red and only think of the B.S. when you get bad blood with some aspect of religion or religious group-I'm not immune to that- but I hope she's dealing with it better today than she did then, and I hope to handle it more consistently well myself as time goes on.
I was the only LG good character in a party of CN/CE characters.
It did not go over well.
I was playing a blind monk when we went to a small town where we were asked to investigate a string of murders/disappearances.
the mayor was showing us around and started acting a little sus. Trying to confront him, he fled, and everyone started throwing attacks.
When the town guards came to see what the commotion was about, they failed to see the mayor's body, and fell for every single persuasion/deception check made that very moment that all the chaotic characters used to claim that they were the mayor. Except for me, who tried to tell the truth.
they had the town guards tackle me and render me unconscious, even the I was not resisting arrest. I woke up in a cell under the influence of a hold person spell cast by our card master (A spell caster that uses a deck of cards). the card master took this time to try intimidating me, a blind LG monk, to keep me away from his daughter (even though there are several way more likely candidates to do a anything besides me).
He left with my cell door open, and the party vampire took the opportunity to drink up some of my blood.
There are several mistakes made that day on my part. I was in a party that played very different from me, which isn't always a bad thing, but it was this time. And I was the only LG character.
I don't hate the guys who participated, but I don't think I want to play with many of them again.
“ I don’t feel safe right now”….. oh dear……. This group is finished.
Yeah, this should have been all they needed to decide against playing with her.
How could some be do that, one of the points of DND is to escape real world problems by going into a fantasy world, real life problems is one of the reasons isekai animes are so popular, how could someone ruin a game by brining irl problems into the game, that is so messed up.
this could have been a very interesting group dynamic where the rogue learns to trust people of faith again and overcome her trauma with the paladin
What? An horror story in which the paladin wasnt the problematic one? Now thats new...
But the rogue is... was this sarcastic ?
@@partydean17 yes =)
As an agnostic man in a gay relationship, behavior like that is unacceptable, and that person had no right to do so. you and your GM handled things very well. You also have an excellent and mature view on approaching TTRPGs. I'm sure you already know it, but I would like to give a reminder that you did nothing wrong if you ever had a doubt.
And you notice how much of a Hypocrite Lucy is.
Live and let live isn't a religious thing, it's common human decency. Everyone has a right to be the best them, nobody has the right to question, belittle, or revoke that.
She literally tries to force her beliefs on him and his character and then has the gall to claim he tried to force his beliefs on her by defending himself.
As a Christian I’ve been here before, luckily not to this extreme extent
Yeah, stuff like this is why I am hesitant to come out about my faith to my group of 2+ years. I like my group, and am really good friends with the DM (we were solid friends back in high school), I just don’t want to be antagonized or belittled (especially since I am the last person to join the group and the last campaign we have now put on pause was my first).
I'm so glad this story was told. I think I'm more glad that the DM told little ms lucy off. I mean WOW.
"Lucy" seems like the type of girl who was told "god bless you" after sneezing and filed it under severer religious trauma and harassment.
This was a nice break from the usual horror story with religious people.
Tbh i havent ran into religious nutjobs playing dnd. Even the hardcore chistian grandparent didnt mind, thiught it was wierd but intrested. Howver i have ran into the anti religious nutjub multiple times either in my own game or ones im part of.
(The nutcases ive ran into the most seem to be the bring their identify politics and sexuality everywhere and hate everyone else, or the anti religious freaks)
It is never a good idea to tell a player how to play their character, unless they ask. If the rogue wants to think all religious people act that way, she's free to be wrong, but obviously the rogue's player can't disassociate herself from her character.
Granted, there are people who act like how the player believes religious people act, but christians aren't all one hive mind.
It would have been a cool interaction between the rogue and paladin. But since the game and real world were breached and true intention are more revealed it just becomes toxic.
It’s nice to hear of a good Christian being a decent person. I’m sorry the homie had to go through this, but that’s life ig. Glad it ended without too many problems, though
The vast majority of Christians are good, caring people. You just only remember the unhinged ones/the ones the media raves about. Trust me, they are few and far between.
i wanna hear decent liberal but that sounds impossible
Wow this story went to a weird place, I initially thought it was a born again who was told having an imagination was bad.
That's what I thought. This just proves we are all HUMAN and there are crazies in EVERY group (religious, atheist, political, race, sex, you name a group). Not one group has a monopoly unless you are a crazy then everyone on the other side is "crazy."
the Lucy thing reminds that when you email someone you should also forward the the exact email to a neutral 3rd party so the first one can't say you were hateful.
when I made a cleric for the first time, i felt the need to make a wholesome character based on Christian beliefs and was inspired by Pyke from Crit Role. I made an elf named Nethelas using Illmater as the deity reference. This made for good comedy sessions as he had an obsession with bread, can make wine from water, used an alms box to collect and donate to unfortunate people, and made you sign a pamphlet for a community night just like Aqua's axis cult. He never forcefully imposed his beliefs on others but gave them a chance to be forgiven and redeemed. He had a healthy respect of other races and cultures in the feywild and just wanted to make the best of things even in the darkest of situations.
Chatting with the DM and players about this build will hopefully help sort things out as we all just want to play D&D.
It takes no effort to be polite especially when others are trying to respect and be polite to you. Over the last couple of years when I hear stories like this now I can no longer trust something actually happened to them and that it's not an attempt to gain attention/sympathy from others as they have nothing else going for them. There are bad people in everything and the actual good ones should be acknowledged as good instead of lumped in with the bads and treated poorly just for being X. People respond to positive reinforcement but if doing good gets them treated poorly it can lead to them no longer trying to do good and simply being mean to everyone. Yes I know bad things happen and I'm not saying they don't, I've just seen too many faking their bs to harm others and cash in pity points.
The OP in this story did a great job of both understanding Lucy and her character's position and not letting her continue to harass him or other people in the group! And a huge 👍 to the DM for taking control of the situation and not letting a player control the game or ruin the other's fun!
I think this is a great lesson on how to deal with people who are as downright belligerent as Lucy. Maybe in the future Lucy will "grow up" and figure out that not everyone is mean-spirited and she doesn't have to be either.
Wow, as a Christian, I agree with the player. I play Pathfinder as a Summoner, Lucy was in the wrong.
People like Lucy are why I rarely bring up my own religious belief (Christian if you're wondering) as it can get obnoxious and depressing hearing people bash on something I believe in greatly when I don't do the same thing to them
@@scarecrow9239 Yeah, I'm also a nondenominational Christian, my character was a neutral evil summoner who is on the path of redemption in the Kingmaker campaign.
@@Vulpecula-Enfield oooh. Sounds fun
I like my characters to reflect my IRL personality. So when confronted with "the gay", I and my character tend to have the reaction of "shifts around uncomfortably in silence" or "looks away in disgust" during PDA's. I don't need to go any further than that. I get the message, they get the message, no need for a conversation about it.
@@scarecrow9239 It is, I triple-crit an enemy wyvern in mid-flight. I still can't believe it. And that was part of the prologue.
There is always a need in any group activity to be able to have calm and healthy discourse if you can do that then you don't belong in a group.
Lucy sounds like she got trolled too many times by 4Chan instead of being badly mistreated by religious people in real life.😂
It angered me to see someone like Lucy act this way.
I posted an initial comment, but retracted it after reading a specific comment about this and made me rethink about my approach.
DnD is meant to be imaginary, don't take in your personal beef and issues and problems into and then immediately follow up with irregularities towards one of the players whom you don't even know.
Make friends first.
Learn about who they are and what they're about after.
Once you do that, you can learn to overlook the difference and find a peaceful ground with which you can interact with instead of stuffing down your personal beliefs on someone you never met. Y'know?
AMEN from an athiest.
I'm Christian and for the longest time, my DM was a Trans Gnostic. Which if you know anything about theology, Gnostics and Christians are similar in theme, but absolutely disagree with one another.
Even then, We got along well. Even had some long discussions about religion. But at the end of it all, we still respected one another.
Not every Christian is a horror story. Most Christians that give us a bad wrap most likely are brand new to the theology, or haven't studied enough to understand how to act or that we are here to love one another. The core of Christianity is the understanding that we are all seriously flawed. But even with those flaws, we are forgiven so long as we accept what Jesus did for us.
Christians aren't bad people. Yes, we get on your nerves sometimes, but we believe with our whole being that we are to love one another.
Honestly, as a DM myself, I believe Lucy was clearly just using her past trauma, whatever it may be, as a terrible excuse to treat the OP poorly for his faith. I pray that she gets the help she needs - and she does clearly need it - but she was absolutely out of line and she should have been jettisoned from the game after ONE warning. The fact that the DM let her continue after she was shown to have fabricated an entire conversation is extremely upsetting, and that NEVER should have happened. I hope that she gets the help she truly needs, but her behavior was absolutely inexcusable.
Corrupt priest: She's a Witch! Kill her!
(Angel poofs next to him)
Angel: Nah she's good, he just wants you to kill her because of this.
(Angel shows Corrupt priest being corrupt)
Corrupt priest: ..........(Runs from angry mob)
Well that was a plot twist. Based on the title, I thought the Christian was going to be the problem. :D Refreshing.
Fortunately, I have never had this crazy a person in my games, but I did have a lade on a PBP server I GM for leave because here stat roll was below 35 point buy (Pathfinder 1e). If you don't know, the average character has around 20 point buy, and the server is really generous with rolls. She got extra mad when I took one of her arrays and made a pretty awesome demon hunter ranger with it. :D
Imagine my surprise when people that require the most from others are completely intolerant of others.
I'm glad I have a better situation.
I'm not religious but not against religion. My dm? Devout Christian. Yes it causes some issues like a sensitivity with devils which became an issue when having a fiend pact warlock but we worked it out in a way he wouldn't have to roleplay any diabolical characters.
Long story short his strict adherance to religious doctrine may be a bit of an issue for me at times, but its totally definitely worth giving an inch for the mile he gives me as being my best friend and a massive positive influence on my life.
I would never give him a hard time for his religion, because he claims its ehat guides him to be what I see as, a very valuable and caring friend.
The Critic segment hurt me, as I had a player like that (except the Critical Role type) until he left. Which made the game much more enjoyable, as even though he was right about some things he conveyed them in the worst way possible and sucked my attention away from other players. A year later me and a couple of friends dropped out of his game so it's a bit telling. Friendship broken too
Hurt people hurt people, but there's a point when I just lose patience with arrogance, ignorance, and hate. You're a saint compared to me.
Lucy is the type of person that would probably be a bad person no matter what she believed. She's got that mindset. Everyone else is wrong and I am right.
It's things like this that make finding a group hard. I'm pretty Lawful Good and Christian so I don't often feel comfortable roleplaying certain things. Sometimes people want to have sex or whatever and I'm just uncomfortable. For me I find it just easier to quietly leave the group and let people be people. I'd probably find an excuse like I'm busy but I'd try to be nice about it. If they ask it's good to be honest but a game isn't worth ruining friendships.
People like this give atheists a bad name.
Yeah, we may not put much stock in a higher being, but at least we are respectful of not caring about everyone else's personal beliefs.
I am a Christian, currently without a church due to a sicism within my church. I am also Bi, love RPGs, endorse gay marriage civilly but not in church. You can come at me but I've been out for over 20 years, had suicide attempts all because off who I was attracted to. I spent a lot of time praying and talking with other LGBT people in my church, before coming to an answer that I felt worked for God and me. I love to play religious characters because there is more ways of devoting oneself to a religion then most know. My church alway emphasized works of charity. Thus I play clerics who are willing to show the love and devotion of thier God through thier actions more then sermons. Though depending on the God I pick to serve, sermons may be given. I enjoy being support and showing through play that I am not the pushy Christian most people around my husband assume I must be based on my beliefs and never having actually meet or talked with me.
Lucy the crybully.
TTRPGs have been a part of my life for a long time. I am also part of every group that gets kicked around for being wrong just for breathing these days. (Christian, pale, cis, male, veteran, old, conservative views on most issues...)
But those who game with me know that I have nothing but love for them.
I disagree with some of their lifestyles. And their politics.
I still treat them like I would want to be treated myself. I give life advice when I can, as I have a pair of boots older than some of them... pesky college kids. ;)
My rule is that we can agree to disagree and have fun playing. If you want to have a respectful discussion on something- I'm ok with that after the session.
Sarcasm, puns, and "Dad Jokes" however are non-negotiable... only the rate of use can be lowered. Some things y'all just have to live with
I am a devoted Christian, and yes, I have triggers regarding real life religion, not just Christianity. I always tell my GMs beforehand and we always habe a blast i our campaigns. Also, I can say that I am sane enough to differentiate between roleplay and real life, and not force my view into others.
Karen will always be Karen, even though she was Lucy
That went from 10 to 100 real quickly. This is a fantasy game. Most play to escape real life. Don't bring religion into it unless fantasy religion if it is important to story or character.
I've been harassed by religious folks, and honestly, I'm not innocent in that regard either. But seriously, in D&D or ANY ttrpg, getting combative with players due to religious or non-religious affiliations is not cool.
Lucy is the clear aggressor here. I am anti-theist IRL. But when it comes dnd games, I'm just there to have fun. I don't give a damn about religious affiliations IRL when playing a game. You are either there to have fun or be the problem, clearly Lucy chose to be the problem.
People play D&D not just for the fun & excitement it offers, but also to escape the real world bs. And Lucy, she brought the real world bs into it.
She sounds like one of those perpetual victims that LOOK for things to be offended by, and I'm betting if she didn't find it, she likely would've started the crap with the DM instead. I don't care what her justification is, she's in the wrong, and really deserved to be removed.
I am beginning to wonder if Lucy's stories of woe were exaggerated? Not to say it did not happen, but it makes you think, how much is true and how much are her own projections?
Some people want to play the victim. In life and game. Met others who act like this. It doesn't make sense to me. Note: I'm diagnosed with ptsd+asd. I don't use it for sympathy. I go to therapy to help. It works I'm better than I was last year.
I know someone who chronically lies that their family physically and mentally abused them as a child and use that to get sympathy online and run GoFundMes, turned their parent's dog into an emotional support dog to get sympathy in public and took the dog with when they moved out of state, and gets passive aggressive or hostile to anyone who questions them or wrongs them (which is usually just anyone who doesn't do what they want).
@Revan 7even Yhea, they're definitely unhealthy. I've cut the people out of my life who act this way. I want to heal from the Childhood and SA I delt with. I don't want sympathy, I want to not hurt. People like that just feel manipulative.
One of the most beautiful lines from the Bible (The scripture escapes me atm) to me is
"Have faith and nothing shall offend thee"
This is more the lesson of “Don’t tell other players how to play their characters” and “Stop projecting your problems onto me” all at the same time. Okay, I understand that the “Problem Player” themself has a IRL history with organized religions but that isn’t an excuse to constantly cause trouble in a game with other people who haven’t done anything to you.
I'm a former christian, but christianity is still a major part of my identity and I've a positive view of religion in general, and let me tell you, just as I'm bothered by players making bigoted jokes, I'm bothered by players that can't keep their disdain for religion out of the table. The amount of players I've had who would go out of their way to kill religious NPCs or that would give grief to players who decided to be a Cleric or Paladin is mental. Like, you don't like when people complain that you're playing a female fighter or a black elf? Cool, I also don't like that, so let's not be hypocritical and let people play their religious characters in peace.
Well that’s weird, it’s almost like the rogue wanted a stereotypical lawful stupid bigot in the table, most of the times she attacked OP was for not following said stereotype
Yeah, I'm getting a feeling that Lucy's story about religious folks is slightly untrue. Reminds me of the kids at the zoo who provoke animals then cry when they get bit.
I think Lucy was playing her character possibly correctly who had history being damaged by a religious group, but way overstepped when she brought these same aspect to the players. Had she said my character doesn't like or trust your character based on her experiences, that would have been fine but the personal attacks on the player are way out of line. Then the absolute lies in the threads afterwards just confirm that Lucy is toxic no matter what her beliefs are.
I don't really understand why when some peoples have problems with some religions, they became anti-religious. I mean, i sure understand why they would hate the faith that hurted them but why putting ALL religions in the same basket? Religions can be vastly differents from one another on their teachings, virtues or what they deem acceptable or not. And why take it out on fictionnal religions and characters?
And why wouldn't it be ok for a religious player to make a character that believe in another god than his irl one? It's a fictionnal game, why does it matter? It's like she thought doing that would make you renounce your faith.
9:25 That... is blatantly discriminatory and ignorance. Honestly, i'm shocked even she genuinely believe that because you're religious, you're too mentally retarded to have your own opinion or would say amen to anything religious because it's religious. She clearly don't know religious peoples as well as she believe. Sure, some are braindead but it's not the case of each and all of them.
It's so sad that she can't even see how much in the wrong she is. It's so sad she took out her problems on you and your game.
This is why I’m glad
My town has enough players to where I have the option to only play in person games.
People are way less likely to try this outside of the internet and internet campaigns can attract perfectly chill folk or people who aren’t welcome in campaigns in their area and so bring their madness to online games
Me(an atheist): so my character is a Russian Orthodox Priest who's come to America to join the monster hunters so they'll help him fight the demons he believes infiltrated the Kremlin. I've actively memorized exerps of real exercism prayers for rp
When I just left religion I was a pretty spiteful anti-theist. Looking back at it its kinda shameful, but after listening to the story I feel much better cuz even that mid-to-late-teen me wasnt such an insufferable asshole.
Sounds like that Lucy person is an excelent antagonist NPC or a curse or something. Maybe someone can use it in future campains, could be very fun used in a smart way (funy in an anoying way). Something like 'Lucy Flare the Chaotic Kween of Lies', she doesn't care about moving on she just likes and overjoyce randomly disrupting quests/campains/conversations/spells/fights/etc, she feast on chaotic energy; she carries a magic 'Bag of Wasp Buzzing' that has no other use than to anoy the people she crosses path with (can't be silenced).