Ultimately it's on the Pirates FO if Skenes doesn't win. They tried to manipulate his service time and ended up screwing themselves and potentially Skenes over in the process.
At the very least, if he were to win, they won’t get a draft pick like the Padres would if Merrill were to win. Plus, he gets a year of service time anyways so it really backfired on the Pirates if their goal was truly to manipulate his service time.
@@ABrandNewBallGame this is quite literally the dumbest comment and video I’ve ever seen considering that Skenes is a Cy Young finalist and that already qualifies the Pirates for an additional first round pick because he is pre arbitration. Winning ROY would NOT give the Pirates an additional first round pick. You have a baseball channel and you don’t know ball.
@@ABrandNewBallGame My understanding is that they just need to accrue a year of service time in the year they exhaust rookie eligibility. I don't know if Skenes will technically count as having gotten a full year of service time since it wasn't via 172 days on the active roster, but I know you do not have to be on the Opening Day roster.
i'm totally okay with being wrong about this, but how often does a pitcher come along and, 1. break records this consistently, 2. get chosen to an all star game this quickly after their debut, and 3. basically make a new pitch? that last one in particular is the most interesting to me personally. nothing aganist Merrill, but this is Skene's award to lose.
This was my sentiment too! It felt like Skenes was putting up quality starts every week, then Merrill started getting hot in July/August and suddenly the race was somehow close. Like you said, the Padres should be thrilled to have Merrill in their lineup, but a 1.96 ERA as a f**king rookie just has to be recognized. I don't think 2019 was the best example since Alvarez was off-the-charts elite (and of course he still is). You could question the unanimous decision though.
I agree with the decision for Yordan to win in 2019. That example was mostly supposed to argue against many saying that Merrill should win strictly off volume. However, we’ve seen Means have almost a pitcher equivalent of Merrill’s season and not even come close. I probably could’ve been clearer about that though.
Yeah against bad teams... why does nobody talk about that? 22 Start for Skenes.. Four of those games against the Cubs.. Three against the Reds... Two against Miami, a 2 inning start against the Yankees.. His two games against the champs in the dodgers he has 11 innings with 7 Earned runs. Yeah Merrill had his months, but he was also the most clutch hitter in baseball this year.. Learned a new position, and was the the most important/best player on the Padres this year out of no where.
Great video as always! I think a pitcher ROY makes a lot of sense, given that teams are much more cautious with young pitchers now and try not to overwork them out of the gate, so they don’t get as much bulk to their stats
That makes no sense. Hey let’s give the award for the rookie of the year to a guy who’s being handled with kids gloves and didn’t even play a full season because we’re babying him! That’s gonna get people to enjoy baseball! It’s doing wonders for the nba after all! Oh wait. The NBA is losing viewer ship for that exact same ridiculous reason? Oh. Well I guess that makes you an idiot.
I think Skenes will win it. MLB obviously prefers him as they continuously posted videos on him. It will be close, but like u said we rarely see someone like Skenes, there is usually 1 or 2 guys like merril every year.
Skenes had an amazing year and he’ll likely go into next year rated as one of the top pitchers in MLB. But the dude only pitched in 23 games! How can you give an award like ROY to someone who only played in less than 20% of the season? On top of that, starting pitchers these days are only asked to pitch 6 innings so you can accurately make the argument Skenes really only played in 2/3 of 1/6 of the games this season. Especially these days, I think there needs to be a separate pitching ROY and player ROY because any pitcher gets an unfair advantage. Yeah he had great stats for the games he did pitch but he wasn’t asked to handle the workload that everyday players endure. Baseball is a long season and puts a lot of wear and tear on the body. Especially for rookies who aren’t used to it, this can be very taxing on performance. Also, a rookie pitcher gets the advantage of being an unknown to teams he’s playing against because they’ve never faced him before. This used to be a huge advantage when a pitcher switched leagues during the off-season or trade deadline because the vast majority of hitters they’d face never saw them before. Nobody can say for sure but I’d be willing to bet Skenes would have a hard time maintaining his level of dominance if he had to pitch another 70+ innings (10 more starts). Or what if Skenes actually started from opening day with this level of production but got injured at the end of July and was shut down for the year? Would he really be considered for any major awards if that was the case? It’s basically the equivalent in terms of games/innings pitched? In my opinion, Skenes is going to be a dominating pitcher for years to come in MLB because he’s so talented; probably 99% of GMs in the league would take him over Merrill if they had to choose between the two right now. But Merrill deserves the ROY because his body of work this year was so much bigger and more important to his team.
And that argument says nothing about the fact that Merrill was one of the most clutch hitters in all MLB this year. The kid had something like 5 game winning or game tying HRs in the 8th inning or later this season. Bullshit stats like WAR simply don’t account for real world value like that.
The best example is 1966 when Don Sutton was the best rookie in both leagues but wasn’t given a single vote. Instead, a mediocre teammate, Jim Lefebvre was voted as NL ROY. Sutton was 12-12. 2.99, 225.2, 209-52 and was a better pitcher than Don Drysdale that season and helped the Dodgers to the World Series.
What if there was a rookie of the award for pitching, batting, fielding, baserunning and relief pitching. They are hard to compare so why not seperate and award all exceptional rookies for being the best rookies at what they do?
His ERA- actually implies he was twice as good at run prevention then an “average” pitcher not just 50% (that’s why I prefer ERA+, it’s actually less confusing)
We don’t need more awards then there already are at that would just diminish the value of the existing awards. Simply value the Hank Aaron Award at the same level as the Cy Young and enforce that pitchers are on an equal playing field voting wise as hitters.
Very good points here. I would add the 2021 AL ROY race. IMO Randy Arozarena should not have won over Luis Garcia. Especially adding the context that Garcia was essentially asked to replace Justin Verlander in the rotation due to him missing the season with Tommy John. That's one that stands out to me in particular.
I remember at the time a big push for Randy was that he got a 20/20 season right at the end of the year. But, he also led the league in caught stealing with 10, so it's not that impressive to me when it's that inefficient. I think Randy's a good player, but I wouldn't have voted for him to win that award myself.
I’m a big fan of Lawrence Butler, but unfortunately he technically isn’t a rookie this year since he was on the active roster for more than 45 days last year.
Ok I do not agree with your only 25% of pitchers being award rookie of the year argument. You do realize there are 9 field positions in baseball so 1/4th is a hell of a lot actually.
Why would I compare pitchers to each separate field position in baseball? The point was overall position players vs. overall pitching. The only one I would agree with that could be seperate is catchers.
The main reason people value position players is because of hitting there’s no reason to separate them every position fields practically the same except for catchers but still about 70-80% of the game is hitting
jackson merrill had a very typical rookie year, similar to Jonathan india's or Michael harris's, Paul Skenes had a CY Young season, there is no good reason Paul Skenes should not win the ROY, but it will be closer than it needs to be
@JcCarroll-r8u So "almost every stat" just doesn't include hits, doubles, hrs, rbi, runs, and less strikeouts right? Oh and he was more clutch than both of those guys by a mile.
Clutch is the most stupid made up thing in sports. Why does the last at bat mean more than any others that help put the game for the clutch position in the first place?
@@FBIStatMajor Lmao tell that to David Ortiz, or any player in sports who rises to the occasion when their team needs them the most. To believe that "clutch" is some made up thing, speaks volumes to your experience with sports.
I hear ya, and I understand a lot of work went into this video (thank you, by the way), but still, it strikes me as a bit whiney. I'd give Merrill the nod....
next up: The Rookie of the Year Has an Anti-Hitter Problem
Watching this as two pitchers won the award this year 😂
Ultimately it's on the Pirates FO if Skenes doesn't win. They tried to manipulate his service time and ended up screwing themselves and potentially Skenes over in the process.
At the very least, if he were to win, they won’t get a draft pick like the Padres would if Merrill were to win. Plus, he gets a year of service time anyways so it really backfired on the Pirates if their goal was truly to manipulate his service time.
@@ABrandNewBallGame this is quite literally the dumbest comment and video I’ve ever seen considering that Skenes is a Cy Young finalist and that already qualifies the Pirates for an additional first round pick because he is pre arbitration. Winning ROY would NOT give the Pirates an additional first round pick. You have a baseball channel and you don’t know ball.
Are you unaware of the Prospect Promotion Incentive? Skenes does not qualify because the Pirates did not have him on the roster on Opening Day.
@@bryceharmon6336The irony of this comment. "You don't know ball" 😂
@@ABrandNewBallGame My understanding is that they just need to accrue a year of service time in the year they exhaust rookie eligibility. I don't know if Skenes will technically count as having gotten a full year of service time since it wasn't via 172 days on the active roster, but I know you do not have to be on the Opening Day roster.
Shota Imanaga had an era plus of over 135 yet Jackson Merrill had an ops plus of only 127 yet Shota isn't even in the running.
Well ops+ doesn’t account for base running and fielding, but of which Merrill was good at (at least relative to his position)
i'm totally okay with being wrong about this, but how often does a pitcher come along and, 1. break records this consistently, 2. get chosen to an all star game this quickly after their debut, and 3. basically make a new pitch? that last one in particular is the most interesting to me personally. nothing aganist Merrill, but this is Skene's award to lose.
This was my sentiment too! It felt like Skenes was putting up quality starts every week, then Merrill started getting hot in July/August and suddenly the race was somehow close. Like you said, the Padres should be thrilled to have Merrill in their lineup, but a 1.96 ERA as a f**king rookie just has to be recognized.
I don't think 2019 was the best example since Alvarez was off-the-charts elite (and of course he still is). You could question the unanimous decision though.
I agree with the decision for Yordan to win in 2019. That example was mostly supposed to argue against many saying that Merrill should win strictly off volume. However, we’ve seen Means have almost a pitcher equivalent of Merrill’s season and not even come close. I probably could’ve been clearer about that though.
Yeah against bad teams... why does nobody talk about that? 22 Start for Skenes.. Four of those games against the Cubs.. Three against the Reds... Two against Miami, a 2 inning start against the Yankees.. His two games against the champs in the dodgers he has 11 innings with 7 Earned runs. Yeah Merrill had his months, but he was also the most clutch hitter in baseball this year.. Learned a new position, and was the the most important/best player on the Padres this year out of no where.
Biased padres fan above me
@@FBIStatMajor Great insight.
They could do a Fernando Valenzuela Award For Rookie Pitcher Of The Year, kind of a rookie version of the Cy Young.
Great video as always! I think a pitcher ROY makes a lot of sense, given that teams are much more cautious with young pitchers now and try not to overwork them out of the gate, so they don’t get as much bulk to their stats
Appreciate it!
That makes no sense. Hey let’s give the award for the rookie of the year to a guy who’s being handled with kids gloves and didn’t even play a full season because we’re babying him! That’s gonna get people to enjoy baseball! It’s doing wonders for the nba after all! Oh wait. The NBA is losing viewer ship for that exact same ridiculous reason? Oh. Well I guess that makes you an idiot.
Itd honestly be weird af if Skenes is a top-3 CYA finisher as a rookie and doesnt even win the ROTY lol
Great vid, I think a Fernando Valenzuela rookie pitcher of the year award would be perfect
Awesome video with great arguments and music!
Thank you!
Outstanding video. Skenes ftw ❤.
I watched this before the awards come out and right now lmao
I think Skenes will win it. MLB obviously prefers him as they continuously posted videos on him. It will be close, but like u said we rarely see someone like Skenes, there is usually 1 or 2 guys like merril every year.
Skenes had an amazing year and he’ll likely go into next year rated as one of the top pitchers in MLB. But the dude only pitched in 23 games! How can you give an award like ROY to someone who only played in less than 20% of the season? On top of that, starting pitchers these days are only asked to pitch 6 innings so you can accurately make the argument Skenes really only played in 2/3 of 1/6 of the games this season. Especially these days, I think there needs to be a separate pitching ROY and player ROY because any pitcher gets an unfair advantage. Yeah he had great stats for the games he did pitch but he wasn’t asked to handle the workload that everyday players endure. Baseball is a long season and puts a lot of wear and tear on the body. Especially for rookies who aren’t used to it, this can be very taxing on performance. Also, a rookie pitcher gets the advantage of being an unknown to teams he’s playing against because they’ve never faced him before. This used to be a huge advantage when a pitcher switched leagues during the off-season or trade deadline because the vast majority of hitters they’d face never saw them before. Nobody can say for sure but I’d be willing to bet Skenes would have a hard time maintaining his level of dominance if he had to pitch another 70+ innings (10 more starts). Or what if Skenes actually started from opening day with this level of production but got injured at the end of July and was shut down for the year? Would he really be considered for any major awards if that was the case? It’s basically the equivalent in terms of games/innings pitched? In my opinion, Skenes is going to be a dominating pitcher for years to come in MLB because he’s so talented; probably 99% of GMs in the league would take him over Merrill if they had to choose between the two right now. But Merrill deserves the ROY because his body of work this year was so much bigger and more important to his team.
And that argument says nothing about the fact that Merrill was one of the most clutch hitters in all MLB this year. The kid had something like 5 game winning or game tying HRs in the 8th inning or later this season. Bullshit stats like WAR simply don’t account for real world value like that.
MVP almost never goes to pitchers and functions as a best run producer award.
How do u feel about Harris/Strider? I remember thinking Strider was better and was shocked Harris won
I remember hoping that Strider was gonna win at the time and I still think he should’ve.
The worst part is that Jackson Merrill is 100% going to regress and then people will be even more like "how did he win ROY over Paul Skenes?"
The best example is 1966 when Don Sutton was the best rookie in both leagues but wasn’t given a single vote. Instead, a mediocre teammate, Jim Lefebvre was voted as NL ROY.
Sutton was 12-12. 2.99, 225.2, 209-52 and was a better pitcher than Don Drysdale that season and helped the Dodgers to the World Series.
you're telling me no other position has won ROY more than pitcher? wow anti pitcher
What if there was a rookie of the award for pitching, batting, fielding, baserunning and relief pitching.
They are hard to compare so why not seperate and award all exceptional rookies for being the best rookies at what they do?
His ERA- actually implies he was twice as good at run prevention then an “average” pitcher not just 50% (that’s why I prefer ERA+, it’s actually less confusing)
Still a hell of a video, loving the colored graphics
We don’t need more awards then there already are at that would just diminish the value of the existing awards. Simply value the Hank Aaron Award at the same level as the Cy Young and enforce that pitchers are on an equal playing field voting wise as hitters.
Very good points here. I would add the 2021 AL ROY race. IMO Randy Arozarena should not have won over Luis Garcia. Especially adding the context that Garcia was essentially asked to replace Justin Verlander in the rotation due to him missing the season with Tommy John. That's one that stands out to me in particular.
I remember at the time a big push for Randy was that he got a 20/20 season right at the end of the year. But, he also led the league in caught stealing with 10, so it's not that impressive to me when it's that inefficient. I think Randy's a good player, but I wouldn't have voted for him to win that award myself.
@@ABrandNewBallGame I honestly thought you were going to make the argument for Garcia and not Clase. 155.1 IP, 3.48 ERA, 167 SO, 3.63 FIP... it fits
It wasn’t out of consideration, but I did want to touch on the relief pitcher aspect of my argument and thought Clase worked best there.
Wilyer Abreu got robbed
wyatt langford was a huge snub for AL ROY
No he just got hot to late
Skenes should be roty and Lawrence butler should 100% be in conversation
I’m a big fan of Lawrence Butler, but unfortunately he technically isn’t a rookie this year since he was on the active roster for more than 45 days last year.
Merril is great but not close with Skenes, Merrill struggles to get OB.
Same with mvp award
and he just won ROTY
Skenes w the mustache and gf. All day.
Skenes should get the CY
Skenes is going to win because of the social media factor and that matters.
Called it.
Merrill helped his squad against the might Los Angeles Dodgers, Paul Skenes came into LA and got spanked
"Helped" is being generous. He went 3 for 20 against the Dodgers in the NLDS.
And got all 3 hits in game 2 where his team would've won without them.
@ yea like I’m gonna believe you😂😂😂
it should not be close imo this is skenes' award easily
Ok I do not agree with your only 25% of pitchers being award rookie of the year argument. You do realize there are 9 field positions in baseball so 1/4th is a hell of a lot actually.
Why would I compare pitchers to each separate field position in baseball? The point was overall position players vs. overall pitching. The only one I would agree with that could be seperate is catchers.
The main reason people value position players is because of hitting there’s no reason to separate them every position fields practically the same except for catchers but still about 70-80% of the game is hitting
jackson merrill had a very typical rookie year, similar to Jonathan india's or Michael harris's, Paul Skenes had a CY Young season, there is no good reason Paul Skenes should not win the ROY, but it will be closer than it needs to be
Merrill had a better rookie year than both of those guys
Michael Harris beat Jackson Merrill in almost every stat in less games
@JcCarroll-r8u So "almost every stat" just doesn't include hits, doubles, hrs, rbi, runs, and less strikeouts right? Oh and he was more clutch than both of those guys by a mile.
Clutch is the most stupid made up thing in sports. Why does the last at bat mean more than any others that help put the game for the clutch position in the first place?
@@FBIStatMajor Lmao tell that to David Ortiz, or any player in sports who rises to the occasion when their team needs them the most. To believe that "clutch" is some made up thing, speaks volumes to your experience with sports.
this video aged poorly lol
😂😂😂😂
I hear ya, and I understand a lot of work went into this video (thank you, by the way), but still, it strikes me as a bit whiney. I'd give Merrill the nod....
Obviously that wasn’t the intention but that’s fair enough! Thanks for watching