Another thing to note about Hosmer’s award in ’17 is that Joe Mauer actually led AL first basemen in OAA, DRS, and UZR, but wasn’t even a finalist for the award. Don’t know that it’s crazy important in the context of his career, but he was my favorite player growing up and it would’ve been cool for him to win it at a totally different position.
It is so weird to me that so many Royals like Hosmer and Perez won so many awards due to previous wins influencing voters despite lackluster fielding, yet Lorenzo Cain, another Royal, had one of the most incredible defensive careers out in CF yet never won when he was in KC and only got his first Gold Glove in 2019 with the Crew
This one might be one of the weirdest ones to try to figure out what they were thinking. He was pretty good in the years prior but only 28 games is insane.
Completely devalued this award and turned it into an outright joke where before it was more a eye rolling joke. What possible justification was there for awarding Palmiero , who actually was a fine fielder, for so few games? Obviously just voting on auto pilot
Sadly, all too often it has been a popularity contest. Often going to the best hitter or biggest name. A guy getting a gold glove after only playing 28 games. Madness.
It's been a lot of things. A consolation prize for not getting a higher MVP vote. A "just vote for the guy you did last year" award. It's been given for offensive accolades and not It's purpose of identifying great defensive play. I feel all of those factors play into Raffy's 99 GG where he played 128 games at DH
Personally I think a big issue with positional players is that players might be really good in one position but qualify in a different position. As an example, take 2023 LF finalist Daulton Varsho. Qualified in LF with 817 innings there out of 1279, the rest in CF. Has great year stats with 11 OAA (T-18th overall) and 29 DRS (1st overall) total. But despite playing about 2/3 of his innings in LF, he only generated 1 OAA and 11 DRS in LF. With half as many games in CF, he generated 10 OAA and 18 DRS. He was a way better player in CF than LF. Another finalist in LF, Steven Kwan, is arguably a better LF player. In 1352 innings, all LF, he generated 9 OAA and 16 DRS. That's a lot more OAA per inning and a little less DRS per inning if we just look at performance in LF and leave out Varsho's performance in CF. That said, I'm personally rooting for Varsho because he's a below average hitter while also being league leader in DRS this year and having the third highest dWAR in the league. Seems like the right kind of guy to win a Golden Glove, and it might get him some longevity. That said, Kwan already got one his rookie year so like you say the incumbent effect might mean he gets another.
I'm starting to regret that I wasn't more specific with the video title because a lot of people seem to have missed when I said I was only covering players in the last ten years. That's my bad. Regadless, all the responses mean a lot, even if its critcism! Edit: I’ve decided it would be better for me to change the title of the video, so I’ve done that.
The Royals in particular are interesting because in '14 & '15 they prided themselves as such a great defensive team and I think that reputation just followed them throughout the years, even when they were bo longer good. I guess it kind of balances out though, cause no Royals were nominated this year despite a couple being deserving(mainly Witt Jr obvs).
Oh yeah I fully agree. Ke’Bryan Hayes was definitely better than Arenado last year. I just didn’t include it cause Arenado was still very good at the very least.
This man HATES the Royals 😂 all joking aside, I think that there’s an argument for the eye test influencing things defensively. Defensive metrics are not nearly as fleshed out as offensive ones, so a lot of voters default to past history and how the player looks in the games they catch. Its incredibly flawed and prone to making selections that don’t make statistical sense, but “look” right
Donovan was the only true utility player out of those 3. Edman played almost all of his innings at second or short. Varsho played right and center with some catcher. Donovan played 140+ innings at second, third, left, and right. With another about 100 innings combined at short and first. That’s why he won it
I don’t agree. Playing more positions does not = better utility player. Edman playing two infield positions at a much higher level is far more valuable. I can definitely understand thinking that Edman and Varsho shouldn’t have been nominated, but once they were nominated I think it has to go to the better players.
The 2011 awards were atrocious too. Just looking at the NL outfielders: Matt Kemp winning the gold glove in 2011 was egregious, robbing Chris Young. Parra was a deserved win in LF, but the other two nominated were not good defenders. They also gave the award to Ethier in RF for a extremely pedestrian season and didn't even nominate Justin Upton
A name unmentioned should also be Ranger Suarez, who is miles better than anyone at Pitcher but doesn’t get considered cause the rules for eligibility are archaic at best.
I really enjoyed the music to this video... Super Mario RPG, right? At least during the Hosmer segment. I think players who have won the GG before get a bunch of clout and it's easier to vote for them - go back MANNNY years (I think, 1997) and Rafael Palmiero vs Tino Martinez - it was a joke.
They should just go with the basic fielding stats. Edit: i just want to clarify, I mean that we should take into account of put outs and assists along with AAO and dWAR.
It’s definitely this weird grey area we don’t see too often where players are bending the rules to their advantage. But, there’s really no way to penalize it. For framing to go away, it would require umpires to no longer call balls and strikes.
That's facts but from what I can tell, they're a little more lenient than they were years ago and they don't seem to mind as long as it is transformative. They can be a little unpredictable but I haven't run into any issues so far.
Seriously no Jeter?? 😂 Doesn't he own the lowest Drs in the history of the stat at -152?? Hanley Ramirez is at 2 at a -74 😂 Hanley was a bad defender so that makes Jeter garbage 🤷😂
All but two of the coaches and the managers in the league should be fired since they didn't do their job. So why should their opinion matter? I'd like to go back to the Aztec tradition of every losing team having to sacrifice themselves. Bread and circus.
The outsized importance of framing drives me nuts. It is far too impactful and is exhibit A for switching to robo umpires. Baseball has too many issues that are justified by saying it's tradition. Strikes should be strikes and balls should be balls. There should be one strike zone not one strike zone for every umpire. Baseball is conservative to the point of absurdity so I don't see this changing any time this century.
This is the first time I’ve had someone say I was biased towards a team and it’s weird cause I feel like I’ve “lusted” over other players on other teams way more than the Yankees across my videos. Albeit, I use a lot of Yankees in this video when looking back on it but I think they’re all valid and make sense in the context.
Another thing to note about Hosmer’s award in ’17 is that Joe Mauer actually led AL first basemen in OAA, DRS, and UZR, but wasn’t even a finalist for the award. Don’t know that it’s crazy important in the context of his career, but he was my favorite player growing up and it would’ve been cool for him to win it at a totally different position.
It is so weird to me that so many Royals like Hosmer and Perez won so many awards due to previous wins influencing voters despite lackluster fielding, yet Lorenzo Cain, another Royal, had one of the most incredible defensive careers out in CF yet never won when he was in KC and only got his first Gold Glove in 2019 with the Crew
forreal. was playing immaculate grid recently and thought it was a glitch when it said lorenzo cain never won a gold glove in kansas city
palmeiro won a gold glove at first base with only 28 games there
This one might be one of the weirdest ones to try to figure out what they were thinking. He was pretty good in the years prior but only 28 games is insane.
@@ABrandNewBallGame yeah, especially considering he didnt even play good defense in those games
Completely devalued this award and turned it into an outright joke where before it was more a eye rolling joke. What possible justification was there for awarding Palmiero , who actually was a fine fielder, for so few games? Obviously just voting on auto pilot
I was looking for this 👍 thx
Still beyond baffled at Juan Soto landing as a Gold Glove finalist in 2022
Sadly, all too often it has been a popularity contest. Often going to the best hitter or biggest name. A guy getting a gold glove after only playing 28 games. Madness.
It's been a lot of things. A consolation prize for not getting a higher MVP vote. A "just vote for the guy you did last year" award. It's been given for offensive accolades and not It's purpose of identifying great defensive play.
I feel all of those factors play into Raffy's 99 GG where he played 128 games at DH
Personally I think a big issue with positional players is that players might be really good in one position but qualify in a different position. As an example, take 2023 LF finalist Daulton Varsho. Qualified in LF with 817 innings there out of 1279, the rest in CF. Has great year stats with 11 OAA (T-18th overall) and 29 DRS (1st overall) total. But despite playing about 2/3 of his innings in LF, he only generated 1 OAA and 11 DRS in LF. With half as many games in CF, he generated 10 OAA and 18 DRS. He was a way better player in CF than LF.
Another finalist in LF, Steven Kwan, is arguably a better LF player. In 1352 innings, all LF, he generated 9 OAA and 16 DRS. That's a lot more OAA per inning and a little less DRS per inning if we just look at performance in LF and leave out Varsho's performance in CF.
That said, I'm personally rooting for Varsho because he's a below average hitter while also being league leader in DRS this year and having the third highest dWAR in the league. Seems like the right kind of guy to win a Golden Glove, and it might get him some longevity. That said, Kwan already got one his rookie year so like you say the incumbent effect might mean he gets another.
You forgot all of Derek Jeter’s gold gloves
Because they are more than 10 years ago
The mario super sluggers music was killer
I'm starting to regret that I wasn't more specific with the video title because a lot of people seem to have missed when I said I was only covering players in the last ten years. That's my bad. Regadless, all the responses mean a lot, even if its critcism!
Edit: I’ve decided it would be better for me to change the title of the video, so I’ve done that.
The Royals in particular are interesting because in '14 & '15 they prided themselves as such a great defensive team and I think that reputation just followed them throughout the years, even when they were bo longer good.
I guess it kind of balances out though, cause no Royals were nominated this year despite a couple being deserving(mainly Witt Jr obvs).
Rafael palmeiro won a gold glove despite only playing 28 games at first base
Hold up i hear dragon roost Island during that adam jones bit. A man of culture i see
mario baseball music is peak
Just came across your channel. Very good video ! Looking forward to more.
Gold Glove is probably the worst about wrongful winners, but I feel like it’s going to be a lot better with all the new stats
considering how bad the nominations this year I don't share your optimism
A very well researched and presented analysis. Nicely done.
I’m so glad I can say I was here before you had 500 subs when u start averaging millions per video
Fax
Arenado is great but he benefited from the ‘you’ve won before’
Oh yeah I fully agree. Ke’Bryan Hayes was definitely better than Arenado last year. I just didn’t include it cause Arenado was still very good at the very least.
@@ABrandNewBallGame Reasonable decision, great video anyway!
This man HATES the Royals 😂 all joking aside, I think that there’s an argument for the eye test influencing things defensively. Defensive metrics are not nearly as fleshed out as offensive ones, so a lot of voters default to past history and how the player looks in the games they catch. Its incredibly flawed and prone to making selections that don’t make statistical sense, but “look” right
What about a video of the worst silver sluggers?
Great video and rito village background music is peak
Came for the baseball content
stayed for the super mario RPG battle music
ur actually so underrated
insanely
By far the worst was Rafael Palmeiro's 1999 AL Gold Glove at first base. He played only 28 games at first all season.
you did a great job. good video brother👍
Like game reviewers that don't play the whole game. Kinda feels like the voters don't watch all that many games...especially of out-of-market teams.
Astral observatory ?!?!🔥🔥🔥
Great video! Subscribed
We need to make voting just based on stats, no names attached
Donovan was the only true utility player out of those 3. Edman played almost all of his innings at second or short. Varsho played right and center with some catcher. Donovan played 140+ innings at second, third, left, and right. With another about 100 innings combined at short and first. That’s why he won it
I don’t agree. Playing more positions does not = better utility player. Edman playing two infield positions at a much higher level is far more valuable.
I can definitely understand thinking that Edman and Varsho shouldn’t have been nominated, but once they were nominated I think it has to go to the better players.
Takeaway: Royals have the most overrated defenders in the history of baseball.
I like the Mario Kart 64 music in the background lol
When are actual sabermetrics going to be used for these awards?
Great video! Keep it up!
hosmer should have won the gold glove of standing behind the bag and making the most awkward plays at first possible
Great vid!
1999....Raffy wins a GG at 1B
28 games played at 1B....128 as a DH
The 2011 awards were atrocious too. Just looking at the NL outfielders: Matt Kemp winning the gold glove in 2011 was egregious, robbing Chris Young. Parra was a deserved win in LF, but the other two nominated were not good defenders. They also gave the award to Ethier in RF for a extremely pedestrian season and didn't even nominate Justin Upton
A name unmentioned should also be Ranger Suarez, who is miles better than anyone at Pitcher but doesn’t get considered cause the rules for eligibility are archaic at best.
I really enjoyed the music to this video... Super Mario RPG, right? At least during the Hosmer segment. I think players who have won the GG before get a bunch of clout and it's easier to vote for them - go back MANNNY years (I think, 1997) and Rafael Palmiero vs Tino Martinez - it was a joke.
Im going to guess that jeter is somewhere in this video nvm he said 10 years
how is derek jeter not on this list
Agree 5 Gold Gloves for one the worst defensive shortstops of all time
-162 DRS in his career and it only started in 2008
I was doing ones in the last ten years but trust me he would definitely be on here.
Maybe it's because I'm high, but the thumbnail looks like Donald Trump
This is the funniest comment I’ve ever gotten
Raymond run music?
They should just go with the basic fielding stats.
Edit: i just want to clarify, I mean that we should take into account of put outs and assists along with AAO and dWAR.
No, the majority of the time they don't tell the full story
Mario super sluggers music. You dog
Framing is to me cheating. If a pitch is not a strike you shouldn’t cheat to make it a strike.
It’s definitely this weird grey area we don’t see too often where players are bending the rules to their advantage. But, there’s really no way to penalize it. For framing to go away, it would require umpires to no longer call balls and strikes.
Dude this is such a bad take… Do you know anything about baseball?
2022 Arenado when?
Jeter
im glad framing will soon be less relevant with the challenge system.
Hope you're getting monetized for these videos cause i recognize that music, and the company that shan't be named is a shark about their material
That's facts but from what I can tell, they're a little more lenient than they were years ago and they don't seem to mind as long as it is transformative. They can be a little unpredictable but I haven't run into any issues so far.
Tucker barnhart
I love the man, but Adam Jones, man.
Seriously no Jeter?? 😂 Doesn't he own the lowest Drs in the history of the stat at -152?? Hanley Ramirez is at 2 at a -74 😂 Hanley was a bad defender so that makes Jeter garbage 🤷😂
I came here to see Derek Jeter
All but two of the coaches and the managers in the league should be fired since they didn't do their job. So why should their opinion matter?
I'd like to go back to the Aztec tradition of every losing team having to sacrifice themselves.
Bread and circus.
jerek deter would be number 1 in all years he didnt deserve a single one, lmfao i guess the voters looked at his offense more than his defense 😂😂🤣🤡🤡🤡
This should be 2 seconds long. Jeters name pops up. End of video
Ferando TatE6
The outsized importance of framing drives me nuts. It is far too impactful and is exhibit A for switching to robo umpires. Baseball has too many issues that are justified by saying it's tradition. Strikes should be strikes and balls should be balls. There should be one strike zone not one strike zone for every umpire. Baseball is conservative to the point of absurdity so I don't see this changing any time this century.
TMI NO BEEF
Two players in, two yankee lusts. No thanks
This is the first time I’ve had someone say I was biased towards a team and it’s weird cause I feel like I’ve “lusted” over other players on other teams way more than the Yankees across my videos. Albeit, I use a lot of Yankees in this video when looking back on it but I think they’re all valid and make sense in the context.