Are People in the Nordics REALLY Going through Seasonal Depression?
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Is seasonal Depression in the Nordics Even Real?
#denmark #nordic #seasonaldepression
In this video, I explain all that I learned about seasonal depression or seasonal affective disorder after moving to Denmark.
Moving to Denmark during the month of March meant that I was bombarded with tips on how to deal with seasonal affective disorder or SAD - commonly known as seasonal depression. Many Danes warned me about taking vitamin d or trying light therapy for the winter blues. Of course, we also discussed hygge and other methods of keeping your mood positive during the winter months.
Living in the Nordics, according to some research, means having an increased chance of developing seasonal depression. People in the Nordics are used to the dark winter months, but studies show that doesn't always lead to clinical cases of seasonal affective disorder. SAD may not even exist at all! So how come people living in Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Finland seem to suffer from seasonal depression or the winter blues?
In this video, I compare research that supports the existence of Seasonal Affective Disorder and research that says it does not exist. I also examine the effect that vitamin D has on the symptoms of SAD/Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Depending on the research, seasonal depression may not exist. People in the northernmost countries like the Nordics may not be at higher risk of developing seasonal depression. Vitamin D may not have much to do with treating depression symptoms.
I look at all the data and tell you my thoughts here. What are your thoughts?
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Norwegian living in Norway. Never used the day light lamp and never been depressed, but had little energy for a period some years ago. Went to my physician and took a blood test showing I was low on D vitamin. D vitamin supplies fixed my energy level.
Liar
I’m from Iceland and I used to love the dark when I was younger. Sitting in cafés, chatting with friends and taking it slow and cozy. When I got older had more obligations so I no longer felt I could allow myself to slow down during the darker times, and I would get depressed… as I would be beating myself for not getting as much done as I felt I should be able to…. At some point I realised this and decided to lower my expectations from about 20th of November until about the 1st of February… and suddenly I didn’t struggle anymore. So in my case it was not allowing myself to swing with the seasons that was the culprit rather than the darkness itself.
That said, I’m now living in the Canary Islands so no change in stamina this season ;-)
Be careful my G. Those fires are no joke and the volcanoes
Vitamin D isn't just about mood, it's important for your bones and nervous system as well. And unless you're a very pale, all-year nudist that drinks lots of milk, the rest of your diet won't cover your needs.
As a parent, I know that it only takes 2-3 years for kids to adapt to the fact that winter nights are long and summer nights are short, mentally.
But I do believe in the social/activity impact. If you work from 8-16 in winter, you have NO bright hours of your own. In summer it gets bright around 4 and dark around 23, which can also get stressful... But at least you can easily have a run either before or after work.
Denmark uses the ICD-11 for their diagnosticial describtions. While DSM-5 gets referenced in danish research etc, the offically diagnostic tool is ICD-11. Just a small correction, from some one soon in the business.
As a Dane, I take vitamin supplements during the winter months, but I have noted that my sleeping pattern and wakefulness changes over the year, from being well rested on only 4 hours of sleep during the summer, to requiring almost 14 hours of sleep during the winter. I think of it as my hibernation.
Being a Dane... my vitamin D intake is all about my immune system, keeping it ready and fit for all the stuff I meet as a teacher. There is a huge difference in how long I am sick and how much-loved...
For myself (Dane) I experience it as being a bias.
I’ve never experienced winter depression, but have noticed a lot of modern pop-cultural references to having a winter depression - and the more I hear of this, the more I try to notice every single small change in the mind at winter time; resulting in a feeling that this awareness might be a self fulfilling curse that manifests it
I actually cherish our dark winter months. I see it as a yin Yang thing. Without them, the joy of the long summer nights wouldn’t be the same.
I don’t get depressed during winter, but I definitely enter a different state of mind. More introvert, enjoy coziness, more focused on home and family.
Interesting video. Thanks. I think that everyone one from northern Europe (not just the Nordic countries) gets negatively impacted by the darkness of winter, whether this is SAD or not. Certainly many of us escape to southern Europe during the winter months. It is often the dark that people mention in conversation rather than the cold. Currently in Spain and our hotel is full of Dutch people, whilst the next big town has a large Norwegian population. I assume it is the same in North America with people spending the winter in Florida
As a Dane with depression, i always crash completely around start November , that is when it is worst each year, this year it hit at the end of October and I wasn't prepared for it at all, ended up missing over a week of work, and then the rest of November is always a struggle, but my mood always lightens around the start of December, on years without snow i always crash in February, on years with snow it normally doesn't get too bad xD
I learned something from this. Earlier this year I thought I had been facing a seasonal depression. Last winter some sad thoughts had been following me around, constantly staying in the back of my mind for months, but when the first sunlight of spring hit I could finally be my usual cheerful self again. The worrying thoughts were still there but not affecting my mood the same way.
You explaining that seasonal depression is every year makes me think that it probably wasn't that. What I experienced wasn't triggered by the season, only ended by it, and I've felt the boost of joy from the first sunlight of spring before.
I am a Dane living in London. Honestly, because of the winter months I would never want to return to living in Denmark. I sleep so poorly in winter there and feel out of energy and sorts most of winter. A sunlight lamp- on for at least an hour per day from early October onwards did seem to help me and made the last winter I had in Denmark more tolerable. Here in London, other people are complaining about how dark and cold the winter is and I'm laughing...dude! You have no idea 😅😅
Seasonal depression is very real, thankfully summer only lasts like three weeks. (But in all seriousness, I have by far the most energy during the darker months. I love the dark. I love winter. Summer is enh.)
No depressions for me...I love the long dark days in winter & all my candles
and the long light nights of summer, with no blackout curtains!
I guess, I'm a balanced serotonin/melotonin Dane 😊
hello from Hundested 🌸❄️
Me2
You Are both depression.
I am a Dane, and I've been hit by severe depression every winter since I was little. It's been really tough, but since I discovered the lamp, my life has changed a lot for the better. Imagine just getting a real depression every year, without knowing why or being able to do anything about it. It's like getting beat over and over, and in the end you don't want to try to get up anymore. But when I was around 24 I discovered the lamp, and it just changed my life completely!
And as a note, I'm fairly sure that lighttherapy has nothing to do (or at least very little) with Vitamin D. I didn't get better by taking Vitamin D, but I got a lot better with lighttherapy.
My take on this is that the Nordic people are just a little bit bummed out during winter "having to" stay indoors all the time. That is our version of winter depression. We just like summertime and the long days much better. Living in south-western Norway Nov/Dec/Jan are the worst months. I leave for work when it is dark outside, and it is dark again when I leave to go home. And combined with rain and wind, I rather just stay on the sofa under a nice blanket doing nothing all afternoon and evening. But when it is light outside I usually go for a run after dinner, and are much more active.
The shorter days of daylight makes me happy. The bright light hurt me. Give me dark early. 5 hours of light or less is fine
I'm pretty sure Christmas was also invented to get rid of winter depression... People would have less food and everything was dark so why not celebrate it getting lighter again? Celebrate a little while it is at its darkest time of the year... Then until that time you can look forward to jul and when jul is done you look forward to everything getting lighter again 🙂 and you get so happy when "look that's the first plants of the year" and "soon there will be baby animals everywhere"... During December before you would go to the fields when it's dark and go take care of the animals while it's dark... When you was finally done with the chores for the day everything was dark... And now you go to work while it's dark and go home when it's dark... You are cold all the time... It's easy to feel depressed when it's cold and dark and there are no plants anywhere... Maybe that's why people took a tree inside? "There are no greenery and no flowers... Look at that green pine tree... My wife is so sad at home and won't get go see it... I'll chop one down and take it to her 🙂" imagine if Christmas wasn't a thing... Just cold and dark and no colours... I'm so sad Christianity took it and made it less of an celebration to celebrate light coming back and instead made it to celebrate some dude that wasn't even born that time of the year 😕 also changed it from being party all night to going to church and singing...
Not getting depressed myself however lots of gray days in a row makes me feel lack of energy during the day and wake up again after sunset where it is supposed to be dark
the dark days where it is not supposed to be... well many of them in a row can have that influence on my energy levels - and the if just a little bit of blue sky shines thru.. yes all good ones more
I am a type A kind of person that like to get up early (all year) and prefer to get most of my practical stuff done in the morning and before noon in general
also love my morning walks in the dark during the darker season
Given the title of the video, i thought it was bold of you to assume, that we're not just depressed all year round XD
For those not familiar with the seasonal traditions, and not adapted to them changing so much, I guess the many seasons can be difficult. Like indoors in the winter and outdoors in the summer, and hectic in spring and fall. Most people are dependent on being embedded in a family which helps take care of the members through the year. It can be lonely if nobody invites you and you don't have people whom to invite for traditional activities. In lieu of family, Nordic people have memberships in societies or congregations. If one lacks even them, a town can feel empty and unfriendly, "nothing happens, nobody cares". That's normal, not an illness, but needs action, of course, should not be just endured passively.
I have never had friends, relatives, or work-mates with SAD. Nordic people do get depressed from the regular reasons, deaths, divorces, unemployment, etc. These often flare up in a certain rhytm because of anniversaries and painful memories. If your spouse died (divorced you) in the winter and you once were married in June, then it is depressing both in the winter and the summer for many years to follow. Some in your circles can be very ununderstanding of this, because they have forgotten all about it. If you suspect that, do remind them. They might be far more helpful than you believe, and ready to be reminded and to do something nice with you.
It is always wise to take vitamines and other supplements, if you live an irregular life, but the best is not to rely only on them - exercise outdoors, eat healthy real food, sleep much, and no drugs and poisons, cherish good friends and nice relatives (select them!), reduce stress in everyday life and at work, nurture a friendly outlook on life, etc (be inspired by your favourite thinkers, by Blue Zones, the happiest countries, by positive, content, generous people you admire, learn new things and enjoy your type of music, dancing, gardening, hobbies, do help others - and don't strive to be on the top of society). One should absolutely look up therapy if one feels any kind of depression that feels crippling and robs one of the joy of life. Instead one should take the dose of therapy that is needed.
A very well researched dive into SAD, well done Derek - do make many more!
My hubby gets depressed in the wintermonths. He has a special lamp, that he has to use 30 minuttes every day. It helps. And then we travel to Gran Canaria for 4 weeks in january/february.
I love the idea of Gran Canaria therapy! I hope it isn't too severe for him, but glad that you're able to find treatment.
I enjoy the dark. I'm from Denmark and can't wait to move to the northern part of Norway. If anything, I dislike the sun.
So interesting - I like a balance. I enjoy the sun and being outside but I find the days to be a little too long for me in the summer and it messes up my sleeping (and blackout shades don't fix it).
Hi🙌 i am Danish and i love the long dark winter moths and i dont take any extra vitamins🙂 i never get winter depressed. I actually only know one other dane, who is effected by the dark months in a bad way.
The winter months make you love august. It is not too hot, nor is it too cold. It is not too light nor too dark. It's perfect.
Du ved forhåbentlig at i løbet af de første 2 uger af august har du gennemsnitligt set årets varmeste dage?
I come from The Netherlands, and although you live a bit up north, but its getting dark, wet, windie and mistie here. What helps me through the winter is....go outside, even when its cold. In The Netherlands we have something called "uitwaaien". So if you can, go to the beach and get blown away with wind and rain. Embrase it, this helps your negavite thoughts go away. And afterwards, drink a nice coffee/thea with some warm patries or go home change clothes and have a warm german gluh wine. And yes, yes yes extra vitamine D with extra vitamine C, Q10 and omega will help.
Clever guy. Thanks guys for the breakdown.
As someone that has mood swings (semi depressed from time to time) its never seasonal for me... especially since i feel the most secure during the dark... im very nocturnal.
I’m from Florida and “Nordic,” and just the low-angle sunlight puts my head in the bush
a few weeks in FLORIDA!
Great video. Like the science angle - watch out Joe Scott!
I wonder if the many Julefrokost parties all winter can explain why so many experience "winter depression" without actually being sick.
Of course, part of the confusion re. winter depressions is that plenty of people say they have a depression whereas they might just feel a bit down. There is a huge difference between a clinical depression and simply feeling sad. I am sure that there *are* people with serious winter depressions, but perhaps not as many as one would think from social media. Personally, winter doesn't affect me one way or the other - except that I am generally waking up later than usual as per lack of light in the morning.
This made me think if you guys have made a video on the concept of vinterbadning yet?
If not then that might be a popular topic to investigate, maybe try it out for yourselves if you feel frisky, and give your views on :)
We have tried it a while back before we started our channel 😊 🥶
@@RobeTrotting Hehe in that case maybe 2023 is the year of second chances?
I started taking vitamin D last winter. Not because of depression, but to maximize my Corona resistance. I am doing it again this winter for the same reason. But i think my vitamin D levels are probably fine. I have lived in Denmark for most of my life and have never had winter depression. So, like you, I eat them because they are unlikely to do harm, and they might actually help.
The Nordic Melancholy is very real, it is very much a part of the Nordic cultures. But as to what the causes are, I take all theories with a very large grain of salt. Maybe Finns are just genetically disposed to gloom. Did you ever see "Taxi - Night on Earth"? The Helsinki part is spot on.
In the southern part of the Nordics, I think most of us are good at handling the cold and dark of the winters. We develop ways of handling it from childhood on. It is likely worse for foreigners, and there is also a minority that has big trouble every winter.
On the other hand, I know several Danes that have left jobs north of the Arctic circle, because they just could not handle another winter there. So it does get worse as you go further North.
At least if you don't develop strategies for survival. Such as drinking (Denmark), singing (Sweden), skiing (Norway), Saunas (Finland), and going raiding in other european countries (all of us),
HAHA that last bit about the strategies got me laughing out loud! :)
I don't know about that study, it is a real thing to me.
I take Vitamin D all winter, exactly because of the lack of sunlight, as you explained. If I don't take it, I go down a deeper hole... I also take Magnesium and full spectrum vitamins because of the lack of minerals in veggies (the soil isn't what it used to be).
I bought one of the clocks simulating sunrise some years ago, and it was a cheap and good investment..I use it from September to May.
Copenhagen native here. Not depressed, but I sleep a lot more in the winter months.
I don't get depressed. But I certainly have less energy, than during the summer season. I should probably work out more...
That’s my plan for this winter - so far, so good 😊
I am a Norwegian living in Norway. I don't get depressed during the dark season but I miss the longer lasting daylight we have during summer. Everyone should take D-vitamin supplement, at least during winter. Our D-vitamin level in the Northern countries is normally low due to the winter darkness and thr not always so hot and sunny summers, and the skin doesn't get so much exposed to the sun. D vitamin is also important in keeping a strong bone structure and avoiding osteoporosis. Severe vitamin D deficiency can weaken or damage bone tissue and muscles in the body, especially if the deficiency has been going on for a long time.
Even if people don't get severely depressed, people still get affected by the lack of light, even if they aren't fully aware of it.
I start feeling the difference in October. Low energy , but also a less optimistic outlook on things.
Maybe it's actually a semi-hibernation thing, to conserve energy during the harsh winter months?
I therefore think it's important to allow yourselv to be more low-energy and recharge with lots of "hygge".
Having a wake-up light is definitely helping me to get up, when the mornings are dark, and have a better circardian rythm (far from perfect, but better).
One theory is that we need a minimum of 2000 (two-thousand) Lux of light, in order to "wake up" properly - otherwise the brain will stay in a "dream mode" during the day - which then interrupts our ability to fall asleep at night.
Those look like fish-oil pills? But fatty fish are a gret source of vitamin D.
You definitely should take extra vitamin D during the Nordic wintermonths, especially if you are rich in melanin or don't get out much.
I can only speak about Norway, even tho I am living here only for 2 years I never felt so lonely and isolated before :D Its a huge country, and only a handful of people living in it comparing to the size, no really large cities, towns mostly and they are far from each other ... I need to go home every year to my own country for a couple month to maintain my mental health, so no wonder why people are depressed here, and its not because of the long darks (btw that permanent dark is only occour in the north side so this also can't be a reason for the whole nation)
Personally I don't get depressed in winter. The only one I know of is my sister, but there is multiple reasons behind why my sister is depressed that have nothing to do with winter.
Personally only had a small seasonal depression when i was 3 weeks in California and went home in February. It felt as if the sky was falling down
I know several Danes who have a discomfort with February. For some it feels as the longest compared to that its the shortest. As far as i understand the suicide rate isn't the highest around xmas (celebrating the longest nights of the year).
So at least if you come in march people might remember the gloomy cold and snowy February whilst USA sounds like Malibu beach.
I think I have summer depression, I hate the heat and the continued light. Love winter though. The dim light, snow (if we're lucky), the colder weather so I can wear prettyer clothing an not just shorts and T-shirt due to the heat
You should definitely continue with vitamin D supplements because it affects our calcium uptake.
We need exposure to sunlight in order to make vitamin D and since we get very little sunshine on our skin in winter and block the sun in the summer as well to avoid skin cancer, pretty much everyone need a boost especially in the winter.
That’s the reason babies have to have D vitamin drops, not to prevent seasonal depression in newborns 😅
i am danish i have never got a winter depression like that an to be frank it hits people that is not very social
its not a joke often it hits people that is alot alone or are single or miss other social events
I don’t get depressed during winter, but have … without a doubt … easier to succumb to mood swings. Since the early dusk leaves me sad for a period of time … I’ve always - in my own mind - contributed that woth the seasonal darkness.
That being said … I am not moving anywhere out of Ddnmark. I cannot live a place where the four seasons are not prebalent. I don’t have a specific favorite season. I think they all holds their own charm. So seasonal sadness is just a mood I have to endure. 😉
I'm very well medicated for my bipolar disorder (ptsd). However, every year I take a 2-3 week's dive around the equinoxes.
I believe it's caused by the light changing too much from day to day, and I can't keep up with time, but I'm not a doctor either, so I just appreciate when it's passed.
PS I've been told that red haired people actually have the ability to store d-vitamin in their skin. If it's true, it's like they are made for these latitudes 🤔 On the other hand, our eg Somali immigrats often sufferes from lack of d-vitamin. They cleverly dress to protect themselves from the sun, we undress, as we have to "suck it in", when it's available.
Happy December!
I live in the north of Sweden and if I lived in Malmö for example, I wouldn’t consider it as dark during winter. But dark in summer when we have light 24/7 in the north.
It does get dark in a different way here in the "south" though. You guys have snow brightening things up and winter sports. Here in Malmö it's just grey and perpetual twilight during daytime and then it's night again. And since there's no snow and constantly raining there's not much motivating us to get out other than a sense of duty to get some "light" and fresh air.
I supplement my daily diet with taking Magnesium Citrate because that formulation of Magnesium has been recommended to me as being the best one for maintaining calmness.
SAD IS a form of depression, truly. It has always been made relative light of, but, it is a BIG DEAL!
I know that, in Seattle, when the sun shines (especially in the Autumn, Winter and Spring, which are always raining and gloomy almost non-stop) I just feel better waking up to the sun and seeing the sun, when it does deign to shine, here.
Summer, (after July 5th, especially) is the only time when Seattleites can count on the sun making even a semblance of an appearance.
👍 I should take more Vitamin D, as this video has reminded me.
Thank you! 👍
I also live in a dark climate this time of year. *Takes Vit D while listening to this*
Edit: Vit D absolutely helps me BUT is not a replacement for like, socialization, eating healthy, exercising, and the use of my UV light.
Most people are just a little down during winter and they mistake this for a REAL depression.
Depends? Depression= Ill sleep a hour or 2 more then in the summer. Where I might sleep a hour randomly on the couch at summer.
In other words, it depend if you prefer sleeping or working, sure you get more done in summer. But winter is cozy.
My depression comes in the summer
I think its a matter of belief. As a dane it has never affected me. I actually love both short sommernights and long winternights.
No need to fight against that reality.
So if you believe vit D helps you, take them. Why not? But if you feel good without, then way?
You doctor can take a blodtest and see if you need it.
After having my blood tested multiple times all throughout a year I have learned that I have a deficiency of d vitamin all year round
Interesting, I hope it doesn’t cause any more issues
Yes, me too. It's because of the lack of sunlight. My doctor tells me to take vitamin D.
I have winter depression.
Take your vitamins in the winter even if you have no mental problems. Vitamin D is needed for much more than mental health. It will reduce your risk of osteoporosis, for example.
Good advice - I don't see a downside to them so I just take them all year long haha.
@@RobeTrotting So do I.
I suffer and most likely has suffered from severe D vitamin defiance for many many years. I got the diagnose around 12 years ago. My D vitamin niveau was 4......................... Essentielle dangerous low. I have taken massive D vitamin since. It took 6 years to get to 25 a year or two more to get to 50 and i am now stabel at 75. I also suffer from chronical depression so severe that i am on pension (førtidspension) I can say for sure in MY case getting my D vitamin up did help a lot. I am in no way as "happy" as normal people but i am not walking in and out of psychiatry hospital any more, So yes D vitamin does have an effect but only for those who has to little. It is not a magic "cure it all"
We shouldn't minimize the devastating effects of SAD in people's lives.
I love the darkness, it´s cozy :-) I think the summertime is too warm, too many houers with light, lots of bugs and noisy people 😂
Hello 😊 The only cure for seasonal winter depression is to exercise outdoors or do some activity that makes you happy like mtb or Go for swimming indoors and Go for sauna gus.. ...these are the only things that help- Thanks😊
Kathrin Hove Antoniussen
for 0 sekunder siden
In the Faroe Islands there can be an insane amount of fog in the winter time and it can effect the mode. But depression it not something I can comment on.
Hi guys. Sorry for the random question but i need to travel from copenhagen to glygnore on the 11th of december. What is the best way to do this? I have never been to denmark
It should be possible with a combination of train and bus travel unless you decide to rent a car (which will cut down on your travel time).
I LOOOOVE the winter!! It low key, the beswst part of the year! It's silent, it slow it beautifull. Spring is okay, but nothing beats an nice cold winter night. Put some longass underpants on an go live!! You'd have to leave KBH, but come on, live winter!" Then you get home to some hot cocao or tea. EPIV WIN!
I live in Danmark
I take vitamin d purely for the strong placebo effect 😉
The pills you show in the video are not vitamin D pills.... They are fish oil pills (that also contain some vitamin D).... As a human you create vitamin D when the sun shines on your skin.... It is believed that vitamin D deficiency has a number of potential bad effects. Denmark has a surprising level of autoimmune deficiencies compared to other places on the globe. (compare the occurrence of auto immune conditions like MS in Denmark with Spain or Florida) and you will definitely consider taking vitamin D in the winter 🙂
Vitamin D also got a lot of other benefits.
It's for instance needed for bones, teeth, and muscles.
Forget vitamin D, Take A shitload of L S D so you dont know what the hell time of year it is( works great for my punk rock sidekicks)
one of the reasons why Denmark ranks so high in terms of intake of Antidepressant medication is because d vitamins are considered Antidepressant...
@@williamjones4716 I'm not saying that's the only reason... it's also because mental health is taken somewhat seriously (at least compared to many other countries) and that our doctors have an economic incentive to give us pills and will to throw so-called happy pills after someone who mentions depression...
Well, I could very well see you play a doctor in an E.R type sitcom.
Dude if we had seasonal depression we’d be depressed all year….. which we are. Oh 😀
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
But in an ever so happy way 🤣
🇩🇰💪🍺
Eat some eggs!
Permanent not seasonal
Yea you are just a youtuber and this was a waste of my time
You seem depressed but it probably go away in the spring
Nah just pissed about another white man minimalizing other people's problem!
It's real.. Symptoms are physical, as well as mental. I deal with it every year and it sucks.
Vitamin D + light therapy helps.
/Dane here