I think that this bass module solves one of the most important challenges about most subwoofers - and that is the phase/timing relative to the main speakers.
Fantastic. Looks a very interesting kit to add to the 1TD-X I built recently here in the UK. I actually wasn’t aware there was a bass module at all to add to what are already great speakers.
Nice video. Normal MDF isn't as "seasonally stable" as you think but in a square box scenario it's fine. While building my own speakers which are made from 64 layers of MDF to make a cabinet shape similar to B&W 802s, normal MDF shrank and cracked like you wouldn't believe. Using Shellac-base primer as soon as possible helped but they still cracked. The last pair I built, which I'm still using 3 years later are made from moisture resistant MDF. It really is stable as hell and I wouldn't use anything else. I think it's also a bit heaver/denser than normal MDF too. I'm watching these videos again as I'm getting the itch for building a new pair. I've got a couple of ICE plate amps to go in the next pair.
I think making the bass module the same height and width, but maybe 4" or so deeper. I also listen to a LOT of pipe organ music, so losing the bottom octave of the organ's range would likely bother me more than most. But hey, I have my own table saw... If I don't like yours (even though I do), I can always shut up and make my own :) I'm also a little spoiled with the bass, I'm currently running a pair of DT BP7000SC towers for my front channels and BP7001SCs for the rear with an Emotiva MR1
You only lose 1/6th of an octave on the bottom end going from the larger version to this one, which is only 2 half steps on the music scale. This could make a noticeable difference on some pipe organ tracks, but probably not on most. With that said, you could absolutely add depth to the cabinet and get that bass extension right back
I'd like to see a taller version. I have built the 1TD-X with Bass module and have found it sounds better higher off the floor. My bass module is 37 in tall after adding a lift kit. I envision a tower with 2 (or 4), 7 in speakers sized to match 1 TD-x.
Wondering if there is a sonic/measurable difference if the passive radiator and active driver are on opposite sides of the cabinet? Would there be a pseudo-cardiod response?
There would be no difference, since the 2 radiators are operating in different frequency bands and the passive radiator especially is operating at such low wavelengths, the 1 ft difference in relative position would not make a noticeable difference in the summation.
Are there any shallow woofers that could be used to make that same bass module idea into a dual opposed woofer set to avoid any cabinet wobble? .... I've see a pair built something like this .. with front facing drivers and side firing radiators. ( or like the Gershman acoustics Black Swan .. with the top " bookshelf " built into a stand around the bass so it doesn't touch at all - no coupling ) I really like the idea of making bass separate for vibration control .. and still very analog to keep the transients as responsive across all freq ( without a sub DSP slowing them down ) Definitely following this one .. I like the idea =)
This is definitely an option and could be a cool aesthetic, but it could be tough to find the right driver with the restrictions of being under 4" deep and working in half the available volume. Rocking is something to be aware of, but with the outriggers on this design the base is stable enough that it's not an issue.
@@css_audio - Fair .. and YEs.. I can see both weight and the leverage points counter acting the mass of moving drivers. I trust you guys there.. I know you know.. haha.. My ultimate DIY mock up .. would be a version of the Il Cremonese Sonus Faber.. and if you browse for those .. you'll see why I'd want to emulate them with some slightly updated changes. ... it's next level woodworking lol.. always the most difficult stuff looks the most appealing. =) cheers!
They're just some spacers used for cosmetics. The contrast between the Australian Walnut and the black stained cabinet was too much without something in between. The IsoAcoustics would work fine in this application.
@@ChandlerLofton Yes, you don't need to modify the 1TD-X at all. Just connect them as-is to the terminals at the top of the Bass Module. We don't usually sell the flatpack separately, but feel free to reach out and we can set something up. Note that we don't have flatpacks available for the version shown in the video at all yet, though we may carry them in the future if there is enough demand.
I think you should start building generic base modules which people can use on their existing bookshelf speakers irrespective of the brand of the speakers
This Bass Module actually works well for that application because at the low crossover frequency where wavelengths are longer, phase mismatches due to positional differences aren't really an issue, so this crossover works well with other 8 ohm top speakers. The only issue to watch out for is the potential sensitivity mismatch - and the easy fix here is to add another resistive component to the crossover if the top speaker is more sensitive than our 1TD-X.
We use a lot of different software for various aspects of speaker design, but some of that is just what we're used to and have good fluency with. If you're just getting started, I recommend VituixCAD - this software is free, extremely comprehensive, and has good online support through various forums. The enclosure modeling section is a little clunky though, and for this I'd recommend WinISD, which is a little cleaner to use for sealed, ported, passive radiator, and bandpass enclosures.
Everything is in stock for this version of the Bass Module. We just need to get the pictures modified online and drop the flatpack price since this new version is quite a bit smaller.
I have two way towers, could bass modules work with them? Would it cause time or phase issues having these on the side instead of on the bottom of the speakers?
As long as you used the crossover supplied in the kit and placed the speakers close to the bass modules, there would be no phase issues, but you'd need to make sure the impedance and sensitivity of your speakers are close to the Criton 1TD-X (8 ohms and 87dB), so the levels match correctly.
I want to make individual speaker enclosures and connections for the low, mid and high. That way i can easily change one of the drivers. With active crossovers being so popular i dont get why nobody tries this other than milliin dollar wilsons.
superb craftsmanship. kudos. the only thing i would change (a small thing) is to have the color of the outriggers match the color of the upper cabinet. other than that. they look great 👍.
As volume increases to the point where the 7" driver would be at it's limits running the 1TD-X by itself, the 10" driver in the Bass Module is still coasting, so when a dynamic peak comes along, the Bass Module can deliver it exactly as the input signal tells it to, whereas the 7" driver would not be able to.
I want to make individual speaker enclosures and connections for the low, mid and high. That way i can easily change one of the drivers. With active crossovers being so popular i dont get why nobody tries this other than milliin dollar wilsons.
I think that this bass module solves one of the most important challenges about most subwoofers - and that is the phase/timing relative to the main speakers.
Wow, great video guys! Can't wait for Kerry's project!
His is gonna be nuts 😂
Looks absolutely awesome. Great stuff Dan
Thanks Ted!
Fantastic. Looks a very interesting kit to add to the 1TD-X I built recently here in the UK. I actually wasn’t aware there was a bass module at all to add to what are already great speakers.
Nice video. Normal MDF isn't as "seasonally stable" as you think but in a square box scenario it's fine. While building my own speakers which are made from 64 layers of MDF to make a cabinet shape similar to B&W 802s, normal MDF shrank and cracked like you wouldn't believe. Using Shellac-base primer as soon as possible helped but they still cracked. The last pair I built, which I'm still using 3 years later are made from moisture resistant MDF. It really is stable as hell and I wouldn't use anything else. I think it's also a bit heaver/denser than normal MDF too. I'm watching these videos again as I'm getting the itch for building a new pair. I've got a couple of ICE plate amps to go in the next pair.
Yes please the kit would be awesome!
Love these kits
I love my 1TD-X speakers. That bass cab would be great, but I need a kit with a flat pack.
Coming soon... the feedback on these has been great.
Great work. Would have picked a different color of stain, but that's what's great about making it yourself.
That's the beauty of DIY!
Looks amazing!
I think making the bass module the same height and width, but maybe 4" or so deeper. I also listen to a LOT of pipe organ music, so losing the bottom octave of the organ's range would likely bother me more than most. But hey, I have my own table saw... If I don't like yours (even though I do), I can always shut up and make my own :)
I'm also a little spoiled with the bass, I'm currently running a pair of DT BP7000SC towers for my front channels and BP7001SCs for the rear with an Emotiva MR1
You only lose 1/6th of an octave on the bottom end going from the larger version to this one, which is only 2 half steps on the music scale. This could make a noticeable difference on some pipe organ tracks, but probably not on most. With that said, you could absolutely add depth to the cabinet and get that bass extension right back
Great video
Thanks!
Outstanding video, beneficial to many I'm sure. And, the end result turned out really nice.
Definitely interested in a kit.
Awesome idea, did you add high pass filter to TDX's in this setup?
Yes, the crossover highpasses the 1TD-X around 200Hz
Would buy it right now! :)
I'd like to see a taller version. I have built the 1TD-X with Bass module and have found it sounds better higher off the floor. My bass module is 37 in tall after adding a lift kit. I envision a tower with 2 (or 4), 7 in speakers sized to match 1 TD-x.
These ended up being close to 29" after the outriggers and spacers on top so the 1TD-X tweeter was still very close to ear level.
Wondering if there is a sonic/measurable difference if the passive radiator and active driver are on opposite sides of the cabinet? Would there be a pseudo-cardiod response?
There would be no difference, since the 2 radiators are operating in different frequency bands and the passive radiator especially is operating at such low wavelengths, the 1 ft difference in relative position would not make a noticeable difference in the summation.
Did you say what the crossover frequency is? I like the concept, and compared to my speakers with 12" drivers, it is quite slim!
200
Are there any shallow woofers that could be used to make that same bass module idea into a dual opposed woofer set to avoid any cabinet wobble?
.... I've see a pair built something like this .. with front facing drivers and side firing radiators. ( or like the Gershman acoustics Black Swan .. with the top " bookshelf " built into a stand around the bass so it doesn't touch at all - no coupling )
I really like the idea of making bass separate for vibration control .. and still very analog to keep the transients as responsive across all freq ( without a sub DSP slowing them down )
Definitely following this one .. I like the idea =)
This is definitely an option and could be a cool aesthetic, but it could be tough to find the right driver with the restrictions of being under 4" deep and working in half the available volume. Rocking is something to be aware of, but with the outriggers on this design the base is stable enough that it's not an issue.
@@css_audio - Fair .. and YEs.. I can see both weight and the leverage points counter acting the mass of moving drivers. I trust you guys there.. I know you know.. haha..
My ultimate DIY mock up .. would be a version of the Il Cremonese Sonus Faber.. and if you browse for those .. you'll see why I'd want to emulate them with some slightly updated changes. ... it's next level woodworking lol.. always the most difficult stuff looks the most appealing. =)
cheers!
I have a question. What are the disks under the 1TD-X? Would you recommend IsoAcoustics Gaia for this?
They're just some spacers used for cosmetics. The contrast between the Australian Walnut and the black stained cabinet was too much without something in between. The IsoAcoustics would work fine in this application.
Seriously considering the add on bass modules. Do they still utilize the crossovers in the 1TDX?
Also, can I buy the flat pack separately, it just breaks up the cost.
@@ChandlerLofton Yes, you don't need to modify the 1TD-X at all. Just connect them as-is to the terminals at the top of the Bass Module. We don't usually sell the flatpack separately, but feel free to reach out and we can set something up. Note that we don't have flatpacks available for the version shown in the video at all yet, though we may carry them in the future if there is enough demand.
I think you should start building generic base modules which people can use on their existing bookshelf speakers irrespective of the brand of the speakers
This Bass Module actually works well for that application because at the low crossover frequency where wavelengths are longer, phase mismatches due to positional differences aren't really an issue, so this crossover works well with other 8 ohm top speakers. The only issue to watch out for is the potential sensitivity mismatch - and the easy fix here is to add another resistive component to the crossover if the top speaker is more sensitive than our 1TD-X.
Do you mind sharing which software you use to design speakers and crossovers?
We use a lot of different software for various aspects of speaker design, but some of that is just what we're used to and have good fluency with. If you're just getting started, I recommend VituixCAD - this software is free, extremely comprehensive, and has good online support through various forums. The enclosure modeling section is a little clunky though, and for this I'd recommend WinISD, which is a little cleaner to use for sealed, ported, passive radiator, and bandpass enclosures.
@@css_audio Thank you so much for the advice! Would really like to hear some CSS speakers at some point.
Is this bass module available as a kit or fully built and the price ??
From a Q&A on their site they say it will get listed soon, in a week or two.
Everything is in stock for this version of the Bass Module. We just need to get the pictures modified online and drop the flatpack price since this new version is quite a bit smaller.
I have two way towers, could bass modules work with them? Would it cause time or phase issues having these on the side instead of on the bottom of the speakers?
As long as you used the crossover supplied in the kit and placed the speakers close to the bass modules, there would be no phase issues, but you'd need to make sure the impedance and sensitivity of your speakers are close to the Criton 1TD-X (8 ohms and 87dB), so the levels match correctly.
86 or 87db? Website says 87.
@@josephbouley-on4is god looking out! I'll update the comment.
I want to make individual speaker enclosures and connections for the low, mid and high. That way i can easily change one of the drivers. With active crossovers being so popular i dont get why nobody tries this other than milliin dollar wilsons.
Very good!
superb craftsmanship. kudos.
the only thing i would change (a small thing) is to have the color of the outriggers match the color of the upper cabinet. other than that. they look great 👍.
I want a kit, sign me up.
👍
What do you mean the bass has more authority?
As volume increases to the point where the 7" driver would be at it's limits running the 1TD-X by itself, the 10" driver in the Bass Module is still coasting, so when a dynamic peak comes along, the Bass Module can deliver it exactly as the input signal tells it to, whereas the 7" driver would not be able to.
I want to make individual speaker enclosures and connections for the low, mid and high. That way i can easily change one of the drivers. With active crossovers being so popular i dont get why nobody tries this other than milliin dollar wilsons.