Great video, thanks for putting in the effort! About the Minotaur/Peregrine : While the Minotaur/Peregrine can be neat at times, overall I still am somewhat disappointed with them. I think the main reason is that aren't really great at anything in particular and it doesn't even fit its originally intended role. When the game was new the Minotaur and the Peregrine were not classified as "Gunship" but as "Bomber". However, this didn't work for multiple reasons : a) they are not nearly enough shielded for that b) they had way too little Missile space to work as bombers (only 40 i think) c) their M-Class partners (Cerberus and Osprey) had way more missile space (100). But even as gunboat, their new classification, they are not really that worth it since the Cerberus/Osprey, while having more than double the missile space AND having drones AND being able to carry 2 S ships AND being more tankier, they also have the same amount of turrets, so what's the point of using these weaker versions? Personally I would like Osprey and Cerberus to be MUCH tankier (double shields, increased hull) in exchange for reducing some speed and steering and thus become true heavy bombers.Same with Cobra and Falx, and with the Boron they could make the Barracuda much more tankier and with much more missile space, giving Borons a unique role with S cize bombers. Minotaurs and Peregrine should be upgraded somewhat to become a valid anti-fighter escort for these bombers (a bit more agile, 1 more shield each, a bit faster so they become more equal with the Boron Tresher). I think Egosoft should consider a massive ship rebalance (and massive missile rebalance, but that's a topic for another time), because especially with the ships of the vanilla races (Argon, Teladi, Paranid) there are so many ships which are somewhat pointless, there are overlapping, conflicting or overshadowing responsibilities/capabilities and there are so many strange design decisions that are rather nonsensical, such as the Discoverer as a scout ship(!!!) being slower than some fighters or even M-class ships and not having any other advantages as scouts (larger radar range could be useful for making scouts an important part of fleets).
For the Barracuda, i believe Cap Collins said that it was designed to be carried into the middle of combat and then dominate the close quarters aspect. I honestly don't think that would work either. Its speed is its down fall. But totally agree about the ship balancing. A lot to be done and be desired i feel..... Ship holding capacity.... *cough*cough* Thank you for dropping a line and enjoying the video!
I don't really like M combat ships tbh. I've done a bunch of testing with several ships and loadouts for them, but in the end, there's nothing you can do with them that can't be done better with a couple of heavy fighters. The Ms just end up being too big a target. The Minotaur is ok because it's cheap and does ok with a full set of beam turrets and tracking launchers. Gotta go with cheap, coz they pop so much more than S ships. A full beam Dragon is funny to watch in action though.
I would typically agree with you. But I think it’s based on how you use them. I’ve had great success with them as drone carriers and patrol ships. I think! And this is just me, but if we add a fighter escort to defend or intercept we might have an even better way to project power. In a mixed fleet with L,M,S…. You can leave the M docked for added turrets on whatever L class can hold them…. Not much use, other than to be a distraction. Which now that 7.0 is here seems to work better. But that’s me. Other than that I use M frigates as my boarding ships.
If you really like the Kuraokami, you can get one right at the beginning of a Custom Game Editor (Budgeted) start. 1. Do well enough in the normal starts so that your Money in the Budgeted start is several million. 2. Build your preferred starter ship. Make sure there is around 2 million left in your starting budget after the ship is built. 3. Change your Yaki faction to +10. 4. In the Player section, increase the Starting Balance to the maximum allowed by your total budget money. You'll find that it will be 1000 credits less than it should be (if the Money section says it is 8,310k you will only be able to take 8,309k total). 5. In the Universe section, make sure Savage Spur I is a Known System and select All Stations Known for it. That way you know at the start where the Yaki wharf is and can buy the ship remotely. Also, make sure Savage Spur II, Getsu Fune, and The Void are Known Systems in addition to whatever other systems you want to be known. 6. Get everything else finalized and start it. Once the universe starts and you have control, immediately open the Map, find the Yaki Wharf in Savage Spur I and buy the ship. You will only have 30-45 seconds to do this - if you take too long, the Yaki will build a ship and there won't be enough Hull Parts left. No one supplies them so you will be waiting forever (or you can supply the Hull Parts yourself). When the ship is finished, select it in your Owned ships and then right-click in The Void to have it flown there. Because Savage Spur II, Getsu Fune and The Void are Known Systems, the ship will know where the gates are even though they aren't shown through the fog of war. It will still have to make it though any Xenon forces in Savage Spur I and II, but most of the time it does make it.
I’ve seen them have a trader before though. It took me by surprise, I hit comms and it was a yaki pilot and everything. I bet it is hard for them in the beginning to do anything. I’ve not done a customer start yet but I’ve played around with the settings.
Ships moves faster when turning using the up and down direction with combat thrusters. Never turn sideways in fighters. You use q and e to turn up or down towards the target while using up/down to chase it.
Frigates were meant to be drone carriers and even missile frigates. Now they can carry a fighter and laser towers Mk II, which does make them useful, but I always found that their usefulness was always reduced by the absysmally slow deployment of drones. Fight starts, you get a drone or two out and you're either already dead by the sheer number of enemy fighters, or there were too few fighters to begin with and the fight is over. Drone launch, at least, needs to be looked into... Also, the Xenon have always been really aggressive in my games. HOP on the backfoot? Check! Hatikvah overrun? Check! Zyarth Patriarchy wiped out? Almost! They had no combat vessel and no economy to speak of when I came in to stop the Xenon advance. Teladi and Antigone struggling? Check!
Love the ending to your post. Believe a lot of people go through that! But deployment is a bit of an issue. At least with fight escort they fly with the M class and not docked. So there you might have a chance to engage with some drone.
Well done. A great show and tell of all the m class ships must for all new players
Thank you! It was an experiment in creating I think went well! Time intensive but was worth it I feel!
If it doesn't smell like seafood, I ain't climbing in it.
*sniffs* Is that calamari I smell? 🤣
Great video, thanks for putting in the effort!
About the Minotaur/Peregrine : While the Minotaur/Peregrine can be neat at times, overall I still am somewhat disappointed with them. I think the main reason is that aren't really great at anything in particular and it doesn't even fit its originally intended role. When the game was new the Minotaur and the Peregrine were not classified as "Gunship" but as "Bomber". However, this didn't work for multiple reasons : a) they are not nearly enough shielded for that b) they had way too little Missile space to work as bombers (only 40 i think) c) their M-Class partners (Cerberus and Osprey) had way more missile space (100). But even as gunboat, their new classification, they are not really that worth it since the Cerberus/Osprey, while having more than double the missile space AND having drones AND being able to carry 2 S ships AND being more tankier, they also have the same amount of turrets, so what's the point of using these weaker versions?
Personally I would like Osprey and Cerberus to be MUCH tankier (double shields, increased hull) in exchange for reducing some speed and steering and thus become true heavy bombers.Same with Cobra and Falx, and with the Boron they could make the Barracuda much more tankier and with much more missile space, giving Borons a unique role with S cize bombers.
Minotaurs and Peregrine should be upgraded somewhat to become a valid anti-fighter escort for these bombers (a bit more agile, 1 more shield each, a bit faster so they become more equal with the Boron Tresher).
I think Egosoft should consider a massive ship rebalance (and massive missile rebalance, but that's a topic for another time), because especially with the ships of the vanilla races (Argon, Teladi, Paranid) there are so many ships which are somewhat pointless, there are overlapping, conflicting or overshadowing responsibilities/capabilities and there are so many strange design decisions that are rather nonsensical, such as the Discoverer as a scout ship(!!!) being slower than some fighters or even M-class ships and not having any other advantages as scouts (larger radar range could be useful for making scouts an important part of fleets).
For the Barracuda, i believe Cap Collins said that it was designed to be carried into the middle of combat and then dominate the close quarters aspect. I honestly don't think that would work either. Its speed is its down fall. But totally agree about the ship balancing. A lot to be done and be desired i feel..... Ship holding capacity.... *cough*cough*
Thank you for dropping a line and enjoying the video!
I don't really like M combat ships tbh. I've done a bunch of testing with several ships and loadouts for them, but in the end, there's nothing you can do with them that can't be done better with a couple of heavy fighters. The Ms just end up being too big a target. The Minotaur is ok because it's cheap and does ok with a full set of beam turrets and tracking launchers. Gotta go with cheap, coz they pop so much more than S ships. A full beam Dragon is funny to watch in action though.
I would typically agree with you. But I think it’s based on how you use them. I’ve had great success with them as drone carriers and patrol ships. I think! And this is just me, but if we add a fighter escort to defend or intercept we might have an even better way to project power.
In a mixed fleet with L,M,S…. You can leave the M docked for added turrets on whatever L class can hold them…. Not much use, other than to be a distraction. Which now that 7.0 is here seems to work better. But that’s me.
Other than that I use M frigates as my boarding ships.
excellent vid thanks
Thank you! Really enjoyed making it.
If you really like the Kuraokami, you can get one right at the beginning of a Custom Game Editor (Budgeted) start.
1. Do well enough in the normal starts so that your Money in the Budgeted start is several million.
2. Build your preferred starter ship. Make sure there is around 2 million left in your starting budget after the ship is built.
3. Change your Yaki faction to +10.
4. In the Player section, increase the Starting Balance to the maximum allowed by your total budget money. You'll find that it will be 1000 credits less than it should be (if the Money section says it is 8,310k you will only be able to take 8,309k total).
5. In the Universe section, make sure Savage Spur I is a Known System and select All Stations Known for it. That way you know at the start where the Yaki wharf is and can buy the ship remotely. Also, make sure Savage Spur II, Getsu Fune, and The Void are Known Systems in addition to whatever other systems you want to be known.
6. Get everything else finalized and start it.
Once the universe starts and you have control, immediately open the Map, find the Yaki Wharf in Savage Spur I and buy the ship. You will only have 30-45 seconds to do this - if you take too long, the Yaki will build a ship and there won't be enough Hull Parts left. No one supplies them so you will be waiting forever (or you can supply the Hull Parts yourself). When the ship is finished, select it in your Owned ships and then right-click in The Void to have it flown there. Because Savage Spur II, Getsu Fune and The Void are Known Systems, the ship will know where the gates are even though they aren't shown through the fog of war. It will still have to make it though any Xenon forces in Savage Spur I and II, but most of the time it does make it.
I’ve seen them have a trader before though. It took me by surprise, I hit comms and it was a yaki pilot and everything. I bet it is hard for them in the beginning to do anything.
I’ve not done a customer start yet but I’ve played around with the settings.
Ships moves faster when turning using the up and down direction with combat thrusters. Never turn sideways in fighters.
You use q and e to turn up or down towards the target while using up/down to chase it.
I have been using maneuvering thrusters more and more lately due to the racing missions from timelines!
Frigates were meant to be drone carriers and even missile frigates. Now they can carry a fighter and laser towers Mk II, which does make them useful, but I always found that their usefulness was always reduced by the absysmally slow deployment of drones. Fight starts, you get a drone or two out and you're either already dead by the sheer number of enemy fighters, or there were too few fighters to begin with and the fight is over. Drone launch, at least, needs to be looked into...
Also, the Xenon have always been really aggressive in my games. HOP on the backfoot? Check! Hatikvah overrun? Check! Zyarth Patriarchy wiped out? Almost! They had no combat vessel and no economy to speak of when I came in to stop the Xenon advance. Teladi and Antigone struggling? Check!
Love the ending to your post. Believe a lot of people go through that!
But deployment is a bit of an issue. At least with fight escort they fly with the M class and not docked. So there you might have a chance to engage with some drone.