Please please please pray THAT l am free from pain lmmediately and automatically and permanently and forever and forever and forevermore. THANK you all for all your loving prayers.
Sonofgod Jesuschrist I'm kneeling and praying for you, right now, to be pain free and for God to make his love fully known to you for His glory in Jesus mighty name!
According to Isaiah 53 both healing and salvation were provided on the cross. Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Dr. White stating that why did Paul not teach or leave instruction on "how to deal with prevalence of healing in the church", if there is healing (which I believe there is) in the church; my question is why does it have to be dealt with?
Gods word is eternal it doesn't change. Get over your opinions. Gods will is absolute wholeness. Surrender to Gods will and be Gods will. Yeshua himself said we would do greater things in his name. Obey God and expect miracles.
At 9:44 White speaks about the Paul's thorn in the flesh as if it were a sickness, but that was not a sickness! It clearly tells us what it was: an angel of Satan that would hit him so that he would not become prideful/arrogant. Then White's argument 10:29 why would Paul not resurrect all the dead so they could take care of their widows was just hilarious and suspicious; the kind of argument a person who hates the truth would use to deceive ignorant people. It's like saying that because of the gift of healing, no one would die anymore! Ridiculous reasoning.
Kind of argument a person who hates truth?? That’s not true or fair. That’s a legitimate question . If God gives us power to raise the dead and to heal why wouldn’t he do it . It would be a loving and kind thing to do
@@kingjames256 White asks if healing was "the norm" why not raise them from the husbands from the dead.... Silly. 1) Healing many and resurrecting many are two different things. 2) The issue is not whether healing was the norm back then, because even if it was, it doesn't necessarily mean God wants the same norm today and everywhere, BUT the issue is whether God has an issue with a believer having the gift of healing today and using it. It doesn't matter how many people he heals or from what disease. Does God allow for healers ? BASED ON SCRIPTURE ALONE, He does!!! That is, we find nothing in Scripture that He will have a change of mind regarding healers, the gift of healing. So, we stay on that no matter what we think we see or know.
outofthebox7 the Bible is the pattern that we live by. Whites point was that God heals when He wants to heal. It wasn’t a magic touch from the apostles but it was God sovereign will at any certain time . The decree from Jesus was to go preach the gospel otherwise the apostles would have gone around laying hands on all the sick people they could find and raising the dead as well . That would be the will of a compassionate person to do. The point is that’s the pattern for that day and this day also.
WE PRAY GODS WILL TO BE DONE...IF SOMEONE WE PRAY DIE,S IT WAS HIS OR HER TIME TO GO HOME...!!!!! JESUS STILL HEALS.. HE IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER....ALLELUIA.. PRAISE GOD..I AGREE... GODS WORD IS TRUE...BLESS YOU BROTHER DR. BROWN...
Matthew 8:3 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. John 5:30 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Who is the guy in the middle? I found that he got right in the way of the 2 men debating one another and asked irrelevant questions. He was more of a hindrance to the two who were trying to debate and interrupted too many times .
How about stop jaw jabbing and go out and pray for the sick and see it happen. Healings happen whenever you actually do it and contend for it. Good example of your brain getting in the way.
+Shanon Thatcher It's not about having enough faith. All born again people have the Spirit of God. We HAVE the faith, no question!!! The problem is doubt. Many, many churches and people don't know how to pray without doubt. Where do we get freedom from doubt? The scriptures. Jesus commissioned us with the power that is greater in us than in the world. Freely you received, freely give!!! just do not doubt in your heart.
When are they going to talk about Job! God sent sickness to Job (through Satan) BECAUSE of Job's great faith! And Job specifically said God sent the disease. And the author of Job says in all this Job did not sin against God or charge God with wrong! It IS SO CLEAR! God sends sickness to His people for His glory! If you have a theology that teaches you not to pray like Jesus: "Not my will, but Your will be done!" - then you need a new theology. God does and can still heal today. But when I get sick, I should pray for healing and say, Not my will, but Yours be done.
Joe Indie No disrespect. God heals and their is the gift of healing as scripture dictates not your or Dr. Whites mind wants to deny. Allow the bible to speak not our emotions or men centered ideals
Joe Indie yes certainly, not experiences or historical records but show u what the bible teach. 1 corinthians 1: 7 so that ye come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of our Lord jesus christ... bible say WE wait for the gift.. and we may NOT come behind or in other words LACK no gift.. A)1 Corinthian 12:4-12 the Spirit gives gifts to the Body of Christ.. B) ephesians 4:8-12 Christ gave gifts to his Body such as apostles and prophets teachers so on. First, there is a difference in ephesians gift and corinthians gift. Corinthians gift is spiritual healing, wisdom knowlegde, tongues.Ephesians gift is like Aaron being a gift to the children of Israel as Hebrews 5:4 he that was called of God as Aaron. verse 6 christ also was a gift the greater gift to us. My point in Ephesians is Christ still has gifts for his body..I'm not saying there are apostles today like peter and john but DEFINITELY there are prophets and teachers today as gifts in the church. Romans ch. 12:4 members in one body all members have not the same office. verse 6 describes the gifts like teaching, prophesying faith and ministering. 1 peter 4:10,11 speaks of ministering having the oracles of God or word of God as stewards. So these gifts were to function till jesus comes in ephesian 4:13 TILL WE ALL COME...UNTO A PERFECT MAN..FULNESS STATUES OF CHRIST how do we come to this knowledge and the faith of the son of God. Answer by the preceding verse 11 apostles, prophets evanglist, teacher and pastor VERSE 12 FOR THE perfecting of the SAINTS for the work of the ministry. Therefore, the gifts prophets teachers and so on will be placed in the church TILL WE COME TO THE UNITY OF FAITH AND KNOWLEDGE. this verse eludes to future and 1 corinthians 13:12 paul says we see thru a glass darkly but then FACE TO FACE: now( presenlt) I know in part (which means not fully) but (future) then shall I know even as also I am known. This means not every one knows the full knowledge until that perfect is come which is Christ; we know and are known by a person not by the new testament or scriptures so 1 corinthians 13:8-12 talking about christ being the perfect who comes and we know him fully not in dark; we see christ FACE TO FACE but now I know in part. My point is words/bible can't be known or face to face it's not personal but the bible can be understood. the word are known or to know always in scriptures refers to knowing jesus our Lord which is personal relationship or someone. the bible cannot be known in the sense in the context of 1 corinthians 13. Hence, that perfect coming is christ. Therefore, gifts and prophets are still in operation; till, christ the perfect, come we WON'T NEED MIRACLES OR GIFTS OR KNOWLEDGE but now these gifts both spiritual or teachers or prophets are for today on the spiritual, in 1 corinthians 12: 28 God has set or placed in the church first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God set or placed gifts in the church to be in operation by the Spirit of God to his saints. Acts 6:8 Stephen operated in the gifts of healing and miracles; Phillip in acts 8:6 & 7 functioned by the Spirit in miracles or signs there are no more Apostles of christ but there are prophets. no where in the bible it says prophets discontinued but says in 1 thessalonians 5:19 QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. VERSE 20 DISPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS... Also, no where does it say miracles or gifts of healing ceased. pls don't go to 1 corinthians 13:8-10 you can but that does not say miracles or healings in context. also paul in the next chapter 14 talks about tongues and prophesying just like the book of revealtion has miracles and two prophets doing miracles signs and prophesying. Thus, like the bible teaches: miracles gifts of healing and prophesying. in conclusion, God set gifts like prophets teachers
Joe Indie yes certainly, not experiences or historical records but show u what the bible teach. 1 corinthians 1: 7 so that ye come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of our Lord jesus christ... bible say WE wait for the gift.. and we may NOT come behind or in other words LACK no gift.. A)1 Corinthian 12:4-12 the Spirit gives gifts to the Body of Christ.. B) ephesians 4:8-12 Christ gave gifts to his Body such as apostles and prophets teachers so on. First, there is a difference in ephesians gift and corinthians gift. Corinthians gift is spiritual healing, wisdom knowlegde, tongues.Ephesians gift is like Aaron being a gift to the children of Israel as Hebrews 5:4 he that was called of God as Aaron. verse 6 christ also was a gift the greater gift to us. My point in Ephesians is Christ still has gifts for his body..I'm not saying there are apostles today like peter and john but DEFINITELY there are prophets and teachers today as gifts in the church. Romans ch. 12:4 members in one body all members have not the same office. verse 6 describes the gifts like teaching, prophesying faith and ministering. 1 peter 4:10,11 speaks of ministering having the oracles of God or word of God as stewards. So these gifts were to function till jesus comes in ephesian 4:13 TILL WE ALL COME...UNTO A PERFECT MAN..FULNESS STATUES OF CHRIST how do we come to this knowledge and the faith of the son of God. Answer by the preceding verse 11 apostles, prophets evanglist, teacher and pastor VERSE 12 FOR THE perfecting of the SAINTS for the work of the ministry. Therefore, the gifts prophets teachers and so on will be placed in the church TILL WE COME TO THE UNITY OF FAITH AND KNOWLEDGE. this verse eludes to future and 1 corinthians 13:12 paul says we see thru a glass darkly but then FACE TO FACE: now( presenlt) I know in part (which means not fully) but (future) then shall I know even as also I am known. This means not every one knows the full knowledge until that perfect is come which is Christ; we know and are known by a person not by the new testament or scriptures so 1 corinthians 13:8-12 talking about christ being the perfect who comes and we know him fully not in dark; we see christ FACE TO FACE but now I know in part. My point is words/bible can't be known or face to face it's not personal but the bible can be understood. the word are known or to know always in scriptures refers to knowing jesus our Lord which is personal relationship or someone. the bible cannot be known in the sense in the context of 1 corinthians 13. Hence, that perfect coming is christ. Therefore, gifts and prophets are still in operation; till, christ the perfect, come we WON'T NEED MIRACLES OR GIFTS OR KNOWLEDGE but now these gifts both spiritual or teachers or prophets are for today on the spiritual, in 1 corinthians 12: 28 God has set or placed in the church first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God set or placed gifts in the church to be in operation by the Spirit of God to his saints. Acts 6:8 Stephen operated in the gifts of healing and miracles; Phillip in acts 8:6 & 7 functioned by the Spirit in miracles or signs there are no more Apostles of christ but there are prophets. no where in the bible it says prophets discontinued but says in 1 thessalonians 5:19 QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. VERSE 20 DISPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS... Also, no where does it say miracles or gifts of healing ceased. pls don't go to 1 corinthians 13:8-10 you can but that does not say miracles or healings in context. also paul in the next chapter 14 talks about tongues and prophesying just like the book of revealtion has miracles and two prophets doing miracles signs and prophesying. Thus, like the bible teaches: miracles gifts of healing and prophesying. in conclusion, God set gifts like prophets teachers
1cor13:8 Love never fails; but if there are prophesies, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will be ceased; if there is knowledge it will pass away. 10 But when that which is "perfect" is come, then that which is in part shall be done away You implied the word "perfect" means "Heaven" but that's not what it says. The word "perfect" hear from the original Greek is teleios which means (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character. It doesn't say heaven or the word ouranos meaning : heaven, (a) the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, (b) the spiritual heavens. Matt6:10your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven "ouranos" So the word perfect means completeness or matureness. The same word teleios is used in many places to give the meaning of maturity or completeness james3:2For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a "perfect"man: So when the mature revelation of Christ is in completeness these things will pass away ie tongues & prophecy ie sign gifts in verse 8. Skip down to verse 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. The faith spoken of here is defined as heb11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen: we won't have this kind of faith in heaven because we will be seeing with our eyes. The word "perfect" or teleios doesn't mean "heaven" the signs gifts have ceased because we have the complete revelation of Christ by the completeness of his word. The context is when the complete revelation of the gospel of Christ has come (which it did) the tongues & prophecy etc with pass away Duet4:2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Rev22:19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
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It is really good to see a debate between two great Christian thinkers who are respectful towards one another.
Amen.
Excellent discussion. With healthy debate like this the Church can move forward. God's abundant blessings be upon you all.
PLEASE please please.always pray For other people when they ask for prayer. Thank. You all for all your loving prayers.
Please please please pray THAT l am free from pain lmmediately and automatically and permanently and forever and forever and forevermore. THANK you all for all your loving prayers.
Sonofgod Jesuschrist I'm kneeling and praying for you, right now, to be pain free and for God to make his love fully known to you for His glory in Jesus mighty name!
According to Isaiah 53 both healing and salvation were provided on the cross. Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
You guys just love debating each other haha, and i truly enjoy watching it, you're both my favorite speakers.
In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity.
Both men are awesome even though I disagree with Dr. White in his position.
Dr. White stating that why did Paul not teach or leave instruction on "how to deal with prevalence of healing in the church", if there is healing (which I believe there is) in the church; my question is why does it have to be dealt with?
Please pray God will heal
I go with James white on this topic.
Gods word is eternal it doesn't change. Get over your opinions. Gods will is absolute wholeness. Surrender to Gods will and be Gods will. Yeshua himself said we would do greater things in his name. Obey God and expect miracles.
Please pray God will heal paraneoplastic disease from cancer
At 9:44 White speaks about the Paul's thorn in the flesh as if it were a sickness, but that was not a sickness! It clearly tells us what it was: an angel of Satan that would hit him so that he would not become prideful/arrogant. Then White's argument 10:29 why would Paul not resurrect all the dead so they could take care of their widows was just hilarious and suspicious; the kind of argument a person who hates the truth would use to deceive ignorant people. It's like saying that because of the gift of healing, no one would die anymore! Ridiculous reasoning.
Amen!! Finally!!! I had written an article on that in Greek!!!!
You're joking! amen I agree.
Kind of argument a person who hates truth?? That’s not true or fair. That’s a legitimate question . If God gives us power to raise the dead and to heal why wouldn’t he do it . It would be a loving and kind thing to do
@@kingjames256 White asks if healing was "the norm" why not raise them from the husbands from the dead.... Silly.
1) Healing many and resurrecting many are two different things.
2) The issue is not whether healing was the norm back then, because even if it was, it doesn't necessarily mean God wants the same norm today and everywhere, BUT the issue is whether God has an issue with a believer having the gift of healing today and using it. It doesn't matter how many people he heals or from what disease. Does God allow for healers ? BASED ON SCRIPTURE ALONE, He does!!! That is, we find nothing in Scripture that He will have a change of mind regarding healers, the gift of healing. So, we stay on that no matter what we think we see or know.
outofthebox7 the Bible is the pattern that we live by. Whites point was that God heals when He wants to heal. It wasn’t a magic touch from the apostles but it was God sovereign will at any certain time . The decree from Jesus was to go preach the gospel otherwise the apostles would have gone around laying hands on all the sick people they could find and raising the dead as well . That would be the will of a compassionate person to do. The point is that’s the pattern for that day and this day also.
WE PRAY GODS WILL TO BE DONE...IF SOMEONE WE PRAY DIE,S IT WAS HIS OR HER TIME TO GO HOME...!!!!! JESUS STILL HEALS.. HE IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER....ALLELUIA.. PRAISE GOD..I AGREE... GODS WORD IS TRUE...BLESS YOU BROTHER DR. BROWN...
James will use straw man when he doesn’t have a response. He will point out radical thought instead of dealing with what Brown is saying.
Isa 3:4: (unaltered in translation): "The punishment of our well-being is upon Him, and in his association it is healed to us."
Was not Peter,s shadow. Was God healing through Peter. Since Peter,s shadow. Go read Greek. I am not a Greek expert though.
Dr White it twisting scripture.
It’s nice to see James White with out a bow tie
The gift of healing is till well and alive on earth.
Matthew 8:3 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Who is the guy in the middle? I found that he got right in the way of the 2 men debating one another and asked irrelevant questions. He was more of a hindrance to the two who were trying to debate and interrupted too many times .
7:35
How about stop jaw jabbing and go out and pray for the sick and see it happen.
Healings happen whenever you actually do it and contend for it.
Good example of your brain getting in the way.
Be nice if the guy would let them debate instead of butting in
Are all Calvinist cessationist ? And are all cessationist Calvinist?
Setfree No, many Calvinists are charismatic, and many cessationists are not Calvinists.
I would have asked Dr. White where he hurt and if I could pray for him. Boom! end of conversation. : )
+Shanon Thatcher It's not about having enough faith. All born again people have the Spirit of God. We HAVE the faith, no question!!! The problem is doubt. Many, many churches and people don't know how to pray without doubt. Where do we get freedom from doubt? The scriptures. Jesus commissioned us with the power that is greater in us than in the world. Freely you received, freely give!!! just do not doubt in your heart.
But then when nothing happened..there would yet be another even bigger 'BOOM'..
When are they going to talk about Job! God sent sickness to Job (through Satan) BECAUSE of Job's great faith! And Job specifically said God sent the disease. And the author of Job says in all this Job did not sin against God or charge God with wrong! It IS SO CLEAR! God sends sickness to His people for His glory! If you have a theology that teaches you not to pray like Jesus: "Not my will, but Your will be done!" - then you need a new theology. God does and can still heal today. But when I get sick, I should pray for healing and say, Not my will, but Yours be done.
God heals today but the gift of healing isn't for today that's the difference
Joe Indie No disrespect. God heals and their is the gift of healing as scripture dictates not your or Dr. Whites mind wants to deny. Allow the bible to speak not our emotions or men centered ideals
Prove the gift is in operation today then
Joe Indie
yes certainly, not experiences or historical records but show u what the bible teach.
1 corinthians 1: 7 so that ye come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of our Lord jesus christ...
bible say WE wait for the gift.. and we may NOT come behind or in other words LACK no gift..
A)1 Corinthian 12:4-12 the Spirit gives gifts to the Body of Christ.. B) ephesians 4:8-12 Christ gave gifts to his Body such as apostles and prophets teachers so on.
First, there is a difference in ephesians gift and corinthians gift. Corinthians gift is spiritual healing, wisdom knowlegde, tongues.Ephesians gift is like Aaron being a gift to the children of Israel as Hebrews 5:4 he that was called of God as Aaron. verse 6 christ also was a gift the greater gift to us.
My point in Ephesians is Christ still has gifts for his body..I'm not saying there are apostles today like peter and john but DEFINITELY there are prophets and teachers today as gifts in the church. Romans ch. 12:4 members in one body all members have not the same office. verse 6 describes the gifts like teaching, prophesying faith and ministering. 1 peter 4:10,11 speaks of ministering having the oracles of God or word of God as stewards. So these gifts were to function till jesus comes in ephesian 4:13 TILL WE ALL COME...UNTO A PERFECT MAN..FULNESS STATUES OF CHRIST how do we come to this knowledge and the faith of the son of God. Answer by the preceding verse 11 apostles, prophets evanglist, teacher and pastor VERSE 12 FOR THE perfecting of the SAINTS for the work of the ministry. Therefore, the gifts prophets teachers and so on will be placed in the church TILL WE COME TO THE UNITY OF FAITH AND KNOWLEDGE. this verse eludes to future and 1 corinthians 13:12 paul says we see thru a glass darkly but then FACE TO FACE: now( presenlt) I know in part (which means not fully) but (future) then shall I know even as also I am known. This means not every one knows the full knowledge until that perfect is come which is Christ; we know and are known by a person not by the new testament or scriptures so 1 corinthians 13:8-12 talking about christ being the perfect who comes and we know him fully not in dark; we see christ FACE TO FACE but now I know in part.
My point is words/bible can't be known or face to face it's not personal but the bible can be understood. the word are known or to know always in scriptures refers to knowing jesus our Lord which is personal relationship or someone. the bible cannot be known in the sense in the context of 1 corinthians 13. Hence, that perfect coming is christ. Therefore, gifts and prophets are still in operation; till, christ the perfect, come we WON'T NEED MIRACLES OR GIFTS OR KNOWLEDGE but now these gifts both spiritual or teachers or prophets are for today
on the spiritual, in 1 corinthians 12: 28 God has set or placed in the church first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God set or placed gifts in the church to be in operation by the Spirit of God to his saints. Acts 6:8 Stephen operated in the gifts of healing and miracles; Phillip in acts 8:6 & 7 functioned by the Spirit in miracles or signs
there are no more Apostles of christ but there are prophets. no where in the bible it says prophets discontinued but says in 1 thessalonians 5:19 QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. VERSE 20 DISPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS...
Also, no where does it say miracles or gifts of healing ceased. pls don't go to 1 corinthians 13:8-10 you can but that does not say miracles or healings in context. also paul in the next chapter 14 talks about tongues and prophesying just like the book of revealtion has miracles and two prophets doing miracles signs and prophesying. Thus, like the bible teaches: miracles gifts of healing and prophesying.
in conclusion, God set gifts like prophets teachers
Joe Indie
yes certainly, not experiences or historical records but show u what the bible teach.
1 corinthians 1: 7 so that ye come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of our Lord jesus christ...
bible say WE wait for the gift.. and we may NOT come behind or in other words LACK no gift..
A)1 Corinthian 12:4-12 the Spirit gives gifts to the Body of Christ.. B) ephesians 4:8-12 Christ gave gifts to his Body such as apostles and prophets teachers so on.
First, there is a difference in ephesians gift and corinthians gift. Corinthians gift is spiritual healing, wisdom knowlegde, tongues.Ephesians gift is like Aaron being a gift to the children of Israel as Hebrews 5:4 he that was called of God as Aaron. verse 6 christ also was a gift the greater gift to us.
My point in Ephesians is Christ still has gifts for his body..I'm not saying there are apostles today like peter and john but DEFINITELY there are prophets and teachers today as gifts in the church. Romans ch. 12:4 members in one body all members have not the same office. verse 6 describes the gifts like teaching, prophesying faith and ministering. 1 peter 4:10,11 speaks of ministering having the oracles of God or word of God as stewards. So these gifts were to function till jesus comes in ephesian 4:13 TILL WE ALL COME...UNTO A PERFECT MAN..FULNESS STATUES OF CHRIST how do we come to this knowledge and the faith of the son of God. Answer by the preceding verse 11 apostles, prophets evanglist, teacher and pastor VERSE 12 FOR THE perfecting of the SAINTS for the work of the ministry. Therefore, the gifts prophets teachers and so on will be placed in the church TILL WE COME TO THE UNITY OF FAITH AND KNOWLEDGE. this verse eludes to future and 1 corinthians 13:12 paul says we see thru a glass darkly but then FACE TO FACE: now( presenlt) I know in part (which means not fully) but (future) then shall I know even as also I am known. This means not every one knows the full knowledge until that perfect is come which is Christ; we know and are known by a person not by the new testament or scriptures so 1 corinthians 13:8-12 talking about christ being the perfect who comes and we know him fully not in dark; we see christ FACE TO FACE but now I know in part.
My point is words/bible can't be known or face to face it's not personal but the bible can be understood. the word are known or to know always in scriptures refers to knowing jesus our Lord which is personal relationship or someone. the bible cannot be known in the sense in the context of 1 corinthians 13. Hence, that perfect coming is christ. Therefore, gifts and prophets are still in operation; till, christ the perfect, come we WON'T NEED MIRACLES OR GIFTS OR KNOWLEDGE but now these gifts both spiritual or teachers or prophets are for today
on the spiritual, in 1 corinthians 12: 28 God has set or placed in the church first apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God set or placed gifts in the church to be in operation by the Spirit of God to his saints. Acts 6:8 Stephen operated in the gifts of healing and miracles; Phillip in acts 8:6 & 7 functioned by the Spirit in miracles or signs
there are no more Apostles of christ but there are prophets. no where in the bible it says prophets discontinued but says in 1 thessalonians 5:19 QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. VERSE 20 DISPISE NOT PROPHESYINGS...
Also, no where does it say miracles or gifts of healing ceased. pls don't go to 1 corinthians 13:8-10 you can but that does not say miracles or healings in context. also paul in the next chapter 14 talks about tongues and prophesying just like the book of revealtion has miracles and two prophets doing miracles signs and prophesying. Thus, like the bible teaches: miracles gifts of healing and prophesying.
in conclusion, God set gifts like prophets teachers
1cor13:8 Love never fails; but if there are prophesies, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will be ceased; if there is knowledge it will pass away. 10 But when that which is "perfect" is come, then that which is in part shall be done away
You implied the word "perfect" means "Heaven" but that's not what it says. The word "perfect" hear from the original Greek is teleios which means (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
It doesn't say heaven or the word ouranos meaning : heaven, (a) the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, (b) the spiritual heavens. Matt6:10your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven "ouranos"
So the word perfect means completeness or matureness.
The same word teleios is used in many places to give the meaning of maturity or completeness james3:2For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a "perfect"man:
So when the mature revelation of Christ is in completeness these things will pass away ie tongues & prophecy ie sign gifts in verse 8.
Skip down to verse 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
The faith spoken of here is defined as heb11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen:
we won't have this kind of faith in heaven because we will be seeing with our eyes.
The word "perfect" or teleios doesn't mean "heaven" the signs gifts have ceased because we have the complete revelation of Christ by the completeness of his word.
The context is when the complete revelation of the gospel of Christ has come (which it did) the tongues & prophecy etc with pass away
Duet4:2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev22:19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
Silly reasoning Dr. White