Good to see that despite all the attention to custodes characters with less than desirable rules changes and a whole detachment in the codex, the adepts at the GW rules team still have forgotten to give Valerian deepstrike for the entirety of this edition.
So BA codex next , l am sure SW and IG players are quaking in their boots dreaming what the Imperial Design Team has in plans for them. And GK probably pretend that they will always just be index lol
Imagine having those deadlines. There are like 6-9 Months between writing and feedback. On the one hand management breathing down your neck, on the other side the neck beards. Why would anybody do this to himself? 😞
@@piotrjeske4599 The nice thing is that my IG could have a worse rule and i would be fine with that. Anything other then standing still would be so nice to play I AM SO BORED OF HAVING ONLY ARTILLEY GET MY ONE BUFF!
What Custodes players want - Exceptionally high points cost, powerful rules and powerful datasheets What Custodes players get - Has to have low points cost to be playable, weak rules, middling datasheets
Pretty much every faction at the moment besides a certain few like Orks. Necrons have been taken over by Ctans you know remember in every fight Necrons in lore have they pull out a Ctan? Because they don't and your warriors barely resurrect to the capacity they need to so their not even run anymore yeah main unit for Necrons. Dark Angels your expecting elite of the elite soldiers but you get D1 relic weapons. Tyranids your monsters aren't durable and hit like noodles. Mechanicus yet again 'elite' army turned horde with how their stuff works, hits like noodles, fragile, no melee threat whatsoever, can barely even afford to actually run an army with them.
@@Grooviebones no, talking about how the codex makes Custodes more flexible in melee, now that katas are on a per unit basis instead of army-wide. This would generally “improve” their melee as they can now have units wounding on 4+ taking lethal while 2-3 can take sustained, all during the same fight phase.
I get why people are saying wait for the actually points cost, but hat really feels like they are saying "Yes these rules are terrible. But at least your units will cost less." I'd rather have high point value units with good rules than cheap ones. Also, I'd be more forgiving if we had been given more detachments. We are basically getting 3 detachments and 1 joke that you only run to piss off Grey Knights and KSons. I think the new Shield Host could have worked if it wasn't replacing the FNP rules. I could keep going, but I've spent enough time this week getting mad about this.
Custodes with the rules they have now, would have to become substentialy cheap not 5-15 pts here and there, but rather stuff like 50 per unit of 5 . 5s of sister for 35pts etc. There is now way for the army to run , especialy the mixed detachment.
Keep in mind sisters are $10 per model just like custodes, but being only 1/5th of the point value. Unless you already have sisters, two of these detachments require you buying at least a few boxes in order to use them. My conspiracy brain is saying to me that sisters weren't selling that well, so the rules kinda force you to buy them. The Auric Champions box was kinda telling with it being bundled with two boxes worth of bikes (because bikes aren't worth buying). GW wouldn't have had so much trouble selling their plastics if they bothered to actually balance the army properly.
I'd like to add to the conspiracy: I think Sisters were going to get a few more models like the Kroot during detachment brainstorming but they got delayed or cancelled. Then because the rules team was so busy not playtesting or proofreading anything, they never got around to reworking the detachments.
@@chadr2912 with what's going on in the books it wouldn't be overly surprising if we get another detachment with a certain Primarch type character by the end of the year.
They could have made the solar watch come back to buff the bikes and vehicles. Dread host to be more melee, shield host make one tankier against devastating wounds and MAYBE a 6+ feel no pain. And Then you can have the Talons of the emperor detachment. and what could have been included in all of this? the 4+ against mortals. i feel like I'm whining a bit but man this was a slaughter for custodes. Maybe they just need to be field tested idk but I'm not excited for these rules. Ill always stick by the golden boys though.
@@frogsterlicous7040 yeah that's where I'm landing. They had absolutely dogshit winrates when they didn't get fnp vs dev wounds, they're just going to wind up back there, and probably worse because all the best stat blocks and stratagems got worse
There's something really cool you missed about "Shoulder the Mantle" in the Auric Champions! You can keep a body guard unit in reserves, move a solo character just 2 inches away from deep strike range, then deep strike and attach the unit to them. 2 inches + base size means a 9 inch charge suddenly becomes a 5 inch charge. That does count on the character finding their way into charge range to begin with, but it would be much easier to keep them out of line of sight as a solo unit. The coolest thing about it, is you could keep multiple units ready to attach in reserves, and attach a guard squad or a warden squad depending on the situation.
Well this is actually REALLY dangerous🤦🏻♂️ Custodes character's best stat is T7 W7 with a 4+ invo and infantry keyword, without the protection of FnP, it's soo easy to kill just one leader🤦🏻♂️ You may say "Oh but my teammates are still in Deep strike, they can come down and pick you up any time" but without leader, that golden is no difference with terminator, which is also eligible to take down if I have to🤦🏻♂️
@@shanesmith4170 But that's only one Terminator Chaptain, You mostly will have three of them on board...🤦🏻♂️ Yeah, enjoy your FnP 4+ for free (once per phase 0CP for a stratagem), I'm gonna pick your friends now👋🏻 that's what will be happening🤦🏻♂️
So there is a Sisters detachment, a custodes plus sisters detachment, the index detachment, and one for characters. Cool, love that, absolutely nothing new for anyone who wants to run dreads, bikes, tanks, venetari, or basically anything that wants to shoot with some melee backup. I like that 10th edition codexes aren't massive power creep, but do they have to achieve that by making them all so damn boring?
After reading all the leak, this codex was written by either someone who's really new to Warhammer 40k or someone that really hate custodes. We have : -1 Less Stance, 1/3 of our faction rule got remove -1 useless detachment and the 3 others are rather weak or super restrictive -Some of our old stratagem got nerf (cost increase) -Lost Battleline on prosecutor (aka our only cheap battleline) -Our name characters got nerf (we only have 3) -Relic are okayish -If we go with the current points in the codex, it's a joke everything got either unchanged/nerf and got point increase. -We got no new datasheet (The only new thing we got is a melta spear on a already existing datasheet) -We lost our 4+++ against mortal and dev (only way to get a 5+++ only vs mortal is in a weak detachment), when dev wound got change and we didn't have protection against it we had a win rate around 35%. We lost it again... -Only positive Axes now hit on 2+ That why custodes players are mad. It feel we got nothing new/good and got nerf to oblivion for no reason.
Seeing the solution being "a big point drop" due to all these rules and mechanical nerfs, is code for "GW wants to sell more of the expensive Custodes minis, so make them worse per unit, but cheaper, to make them LESS Elite, and people have to buy and paint more". One of the reasons I went for this army was the cost accessibility compared to basically any other (excluding the obvious Forge World stuff. Entry level is not going there). Combat Patrol - 10 Sisters, 5 Custodian Guard, 3 Vertus Praetors Boarding Party - 5 Custodian Guard, 3 Allarus Custodians, 1 Trajann Valoris Add on a second Allarus Custodian box, a Blade Champion, and a box of Custodian Wardens, and you got more than 2000 points worth (depending how many Shield-Captains you opt for). The fact they gutted and replaced the original Detachment is honestly the worst part of this. Cannot wait to see what response comes from GW on the general blowback from this gutting of the "elite" army. Thankfully, pretty sure my friends I play with casually won't have issues with just sticking with the original Index Shield Host detachment rules. At least those gave us some decent ground to stand on. Oh, but we did get that Pyrithite Spear as a Wargear option... for ONLY normal Shield-Captains, nobody else (ie: Allarus Shield-Captains that also use Guardian Spears, or even Custodian Guard or Wardens as an option).
There is a FW unit with 5 dudes with adrasite or pyrite spears. They want you to buy the FW catalog even if the unit is a custodian guard unit with a different combbination of weapons...
I'm thinking Auric Champions needs their detachment rule to also say "Characters who are not leading a unit still count as leading a unit for rules purposes", that way you could literally run all characters maybe? As it stands, it only buffs characters, and characters are not worth running solo, so its.... clunky, at best.
Losing battle line on prosecutors outside their detachment blows for one reason. You can’t attach greyfax to them anymore. She allowed them to be one of the best psyker character killers
I'm gonna say that I think the Auric Champions detachment is entirely and exclusively made for 1000pt games. Hitting 1000pts with Custodes is as easy as running 15 models. You run Aleya, Valerian, and Trajann, three Blade Champions with two of them gaining the enhancements, toss in one Shield Captain, and a unit of Witchseekers and a unit of Persecutors. If you don't wanna run them that way, you can easily run Aleya Valerian Trajann Three Blade Champions (Two with Enhancements) Knight-Centura 3x Witchseekers or 2x Witchseekers + 1x Vigilators The two of the Witchseekers stay back and hold objectives whilst the third squad of either Witchseekers or Vigilators is lead by Aleya. You have two sets of four models that autohit and roll D6 attacks that deal 1 damage on your points and you have Aleya who can run Witchseekers or Vigilators, and if they die, then guess what? She runs back down the board and for 1CP she can attach to a unit and hold the lines. If you really wanna play it safe, you can use Persecutors for their doubled range over the Witchseekers, but personally, I'd rather take my chances with the Witchseekers being point holders for 10pts more and always hitting over watching me roll 1 after 1 and losing a point because I ran up the board and tried to kick that nerd Magnus' ass with everyone else.
I think the issue with the anti psyker 4+ is that is way too strong if against the good target but against everything else they were too weak BUT if they decrease their points to get great against other armies then by keeping the anti psyker on 4+ would just make them broken against things like grey knights.
@@malekith13 No, even with anti psyker 4+ they were still bad against psychic armies. They arent battleline so you could take max 3 units of them which were easy to wipe out and hard to deliver into melee.
no one ever took vigalators and psychers not nearly as prevalent not saying it matters much cause it doesn't but just put another stick on the nerf pile
I like removing the 4 up against mortals and dev wounds from a detachment so it’s not an auto take but it should have become part of the army rule instead of being removed all together
@@Khobai it didn’t make them useless especially on low AP weapons like gladiator reapers it just stopped them from being the absolute bane of custodes like they were before the recent change. And I don’t think points are a great lever to balance custodes. Even if it’s balanced I don’t want to see them lose their hyper elite status.
@@Khobaicustodes with fnp vs dev wounds wouldn't be a problem for other factions if they had specific anti heavy infantry units, like a balanced army should have. Why punish custodes when instead gw could help the other armies with units that can deal with custodes type units, that way it isn't just an army rock-paper-scissors on whether you can or can't do dev wounds or "do custodes have anti dev wounds? ", but instead its a "dix this player bring their big anti infantry guns?". If gw balanced their game and gave everyone full army lists with units for every role then suddenly weapons specific keywords don't become the reason the most elite army (on average) in the entire game gets dumpstered. In this current meta, custodes need their anti dev wounds, or else they just lose. We saw how they dropped from 3rd to last to top 3 in win rate due to that single rule.
Great video going through what is frankly the worst output I've seen from GW. I'm incredibly disappointed in the lack of effort, consideration and cohesive balancing GW are putting into their codexs in 10th. It's beyond a joke at this point given how bad so many of them are. Some of these dont even make sense, case in point: GW: "Have a whole detachment that focusses on your characters" Also GW: EVERY SIGNLE CHARACTER UNIT IS LOSING PART OF THEIR ABILITY. But your shield captain has the option of a spear and shield, so it's still balanced. Literally could have done 4-5 detatchments (I'm not sure why orks get 6 and Custodes dont?!) that were the shield host flavours: Shield Host (Solar Watch) - 4+++ with the stratagems from the index Shadowkeepers - Army wide minus 1 incoming attacks in melee with debuffing stratagems flavoured from 9th (- 1str, stasis oubliette to fight last, remving use of invuln from 9th etc) Dread Host - +1AP for shooting within 9" (oh look, saggitarum and hurricane bolters are now a bit more relevant again!) with shooting based stratagems (exploding 6's for the phase and things like that) Solar Watch - armywide +1 to advance rolls &/or Fallback & charge with stratagems for mobility (some sort of auto advance, and something like if an enemy unit finished within 6" of you, you can immediately declare a charge even if you advanced that turn) it's literally that easy GW.... the effort is pathetic
You mention points, but how low can Custodes go down in points before they are no longer Custodes? Back when Devastating wounds got changed and the Index detachment rule no longer applied, Custodes win rate went into free fall. That isn't the sort of problem that can reasonably be fixed by points, and it's going to be a problem that all of the detachments run into.
Super simple so GW doesn't get lost reading this: -Individual guard/warden models capable of beating the brakes off unnamed Marine captains. -Guard/Wardens=6W(same as Marine Captain), Terminators=7W and innate DevWound protection baked into statline of everything but the tanks (yes, dreads too). -No more once per battle bs: Custodes drill for decades/centuries until every technique they know is replicable to perfection at a MOMENT'S notice. They don't have moves they can't repeat as necessary ad nauseum. -Make the point costs ludicrously high. Like 80 points per model for a Guard. Whatever is necessary for a semblance of balanced, even if it means being UNDERPOWERED. Here that GW, we don't care if we're a meta army. We just want Custodes to feel like CUSTODES!
If GW can't get it together with fixing/figuring out a good way for Dev Wounds to work, this book is going to need an errata to have an army wide FNP rule added to defend against them. They can even just steal the 9th edition 'Aegis of the Emperor' ability name since I didn't see it used here anywhere.
I believe that was the name of the index detachment ability. Honestly it should have been moved to become a second faction rule as either the 4+ FNP against morals and dev wounds or just a flat 5+ FNP.
For those who are excited to get to kill Custodes more easily now remember this if the same happens to your army. However, in my personal opinion my disappointment is less on the nerfs to the army (rules can get changed and points can help) but this Custodes codex offers only 4 detachments with only a couple designed for just Custodes (which is even more funny given they could have just copy and pasted the index one as an option like the SM codex) the detachments don't offer a sufficient number of unique ways to build your army and have done nothing to make less used Custodes units interesting (it's not like we have a lot of datasheets). And these are likely the options we will have for the rest of the edition. It just seems uninspired, especially considering how much flavor and diversity is available in other codexes.
Custodes will likely get a big point drop with the upcoming balance changes, oddly turning them into yet another hordish army that requires getting more models.
if they do pull that shit ill be pissed.. i didnt buy these guys to play a horde army. i bought these guys to play the most elite of the elite. the definition of true quality over quantity. theyre supposed to be these demigod like unstoppable beings and they should FEEL that way. not be OP or faceroll people, but just FEEL powerful and tough. with this new crap, its going to be hard to feel that way when every defensive power get stripped away just to give them redundant amounts of melee buffing they NEVER needed. they NEED mobility and NEED survivablity so they can make it into the fight to DO the meleeing without half their squads getting murdered before they even get there. and they NEED that survivability even more still to hold that spot from the 80+ models that will be shooting them next turn....
They will not get a big point drop propel said the same shit with dark angels and there wasn’t any kind of huge point drop. I could see them changing the strategem to work on dev wounds but I wouldn’t count on it
As an Ork player, I seriously feel for custodes and I wish gw would show consistency with their codexes. That character detachment should have given characters +1 wound, +1 to wound, and +1 damage in melee (besides Trajan) if they really wanted to make a character focused detachment work.
I just don't get the design choices for the detatchments. I'm not a custodes player, but I feel like players don't give two shits about sisters of silence. The Shield Host switch doesn't look too bad imo, but why dedicate 2/4 detachments around sisters? I thought they'd maybe show the Vertus Praetors some love or maybe dreads. These choices just seem out of touch.
I was really excited to see the Talons detachment when it was first announced cause I wanted to be able to run a fun and fluffy army that fit the lore but the rules are so trash that it killed that excitement the moment I read it.
Narrative players are generally very invested in the Custodes and Sisters working together because that's how they were in the Heresy, and that was the entire premise of their reintroduction to 40k with Guilliman's return. The problem is GW has ignored the Sisters by excluding them from the first Codex, and then after failed attempts to incorporate them into the army, they haven't supported them with any models, HQs, rules, etc. So most players have no reason to care for them unless a given player is really invested in the Talons as a concept.
@@ARCThunder mmm not agree they worked a single time together during HH, to counter TS on a planet, after that Sos diseapear from radars, and keep in mind that they are not a billion but few. So GW fail on this side too...
Custodes player, SoS would be cool if they weren't hyper-focused on being anti-psycher and have the defenses of wet tissue paper. And also completely unsupported by GW in both rules and models. The "hyper elite anti-psycher half of the bodyguards of the emperor" are T3 1W 3+SV. Oh, and their only named-character doesn't have their faction tag, so can't go into their only transport. The Index army/detachment rules didn't apply to them, b/c they're not [Adeptus Custodes]. There is 1 kit of troops with 3 build choices (boltors, framers, melee only), a rhino, and 2 characters (1 named, one generic), and *that's it* for models. It's a joke. I wished for GW to include them more into the army with the codex, but they didn't at all. There's so much anti-synergy within the detachment/codex as a whole. Like the SoS [Leader]s don't have a 'Captain' ability (one free strat per turn), so you can't ever use the Talons detachment strats for free. And to top it off, the SoS-only detachment is a fucking joke.
It's the GW formula now. No elite type armies. That doesn't sell boxes. Make the elite armies weak so GW can then just drop points, and you buy more models. Ad mech now custodes. The only reason they keep knights is the fact they cost 3 units for 1 knight.
The people I see saying shit like “I think Custodes will still be in a decent spot” really boggle my mind. Do these people not have basic memory? It was only like 4 months ago where Custodes were sitting at a winrate in the 30% range because their FNP only worked on mortals and not devs. That one errata pretty much single handily shot them to one of the best armies. Now, they’re losing their FNP all together. If they were one of the worst armies in the game when they only had a FNP against MW. How do you think they’ll be after not having a FNP for devs and mortals?
You're delusional and shortsighted. The lowest they ever dropped to was 42%. I will be surprised if they don't update the Talons of the Emperor to have the FNP against devs as well as mortals, but these changes are frankly going to boil down to "get good". They're broken currently, and as someone who's dealt with the state of Death Guard and World Eaters throughout 10th, suck it up.
The more codexes are released, the more I think that: a) There should have created a "Mortal damage" rule, like a mortal wound but all the damage applies only to one attack (so only one FNP and, if the attack overkills, the remaining damage is "lost"). b) The 0 CP rule should apply to the detachment stratagems, so you always have the option to use them (maybe you can only use the rule once, or something like that, I don't know).
I miss having 2000 points to use and getting about 5 units due to high points, but knowing they can withstand a ton of damage for the points. Now they just feel a bit lame.
12:04 Note that this strat cannot be made free if you are targeting an [Anathema Psykana] unit. Per rules on "reducing stratagem costs", all units targeted must have the ability to reduce the cost of the stratagem. Neither of the 2 Sisters characters have this ability. The unit would need to gain this ability from some other [Leader], if possible. My playgroup doesn't build lists with "allied army" models, so I don't know if that can be done.
I give up. I guess I have to be an ultramarines player. At least then I'll have 40 different units to build an army with. GW can't ruin that many units at once can they?
im supprised the basic contemptor survived given the old model it used is discontinued, would have at least thought then they would give the full weapon layout the new kit does (would have been nice to get lascannon arms in the codex)
Idk why they even felt the need to completely rip apart the current detachment it's right in the ideal range for win lose rates and no one would have really complained if it just saw some side nerfs to make things more interesting. Is this the only codex they did this too? I'm pretty sure the main detachment for space marines was kept more or less intact
So was CSM and world waters and they butchered them lol mechanicum was never good and they never will be in this edition. Seriously this is the worst edition at least in Terms of fun and interesting rules. I’m sticking with 9th barring some miracle
Honestly, this Codex is one I won't be buying. Shallow in flavour, quite flawed in rules, probably due to the Codex being written waaaayyy before release and writers lacking game stats information. None of the old Shield Hosts from 9th making it over to 10th in any form just sucks.
Yeah that is the only time my host is coming off the shelf now for years probably … with rules like these it’s no wonder the emperor is interred on the golden throne
GW wants to make Custodes a horde army so they can make more money out of it. Step one: make them terrible for the current points cost. Step two: drastically drop the points cost. Step three: PROFIT.
Their data sheets are too strong to ever be a horde army this is just some weird delusional nonsense… they are going to suck and that’s about it so I guess by your logic gw doesn’t want people to buy them.
Seems too sister focused now when theyre one of the worst costed models to buy on a PPM basis. Especially without huge stat buffs. Why not make a bike centric detachment or dread focused if they wanted list variety?
I hate custodes but even I feel for their players. No army should get this kind of treatment. What makes it worse is the magnificence of the orks codex coming alongside it. My condolences to custodes players
Unless GW has changed it the Rhino has the necessary keyword to allow them to give custodes the FNP in Talons of the Emperor, so that could keep up and be more durable
no battleline for prosecuters anymore?? they DO know thats one of the requisits for greyfax to be able to go into their unit right? how ironic that in GW's attempt to make Sisters of silence more appealing, they took away the ONE thing i had planned to combo to make them worth grabbing. honestly this entire new codex is beyond depressing as a person who just bought his new custode army... and his first army too. like, wow. they just completely DESTROYED this army. "oh! but here! have more melee damage that you never needed!"..... gee, thanks... like i totally want to overkill a spacemarine that my original guardian spear did just fine against already at the cost of losing protectoin against mortals and dev wounds... what a deal... I cant wait now to watch my entire army get flat lined by the enemy turn 2....
This codex provided some really cool ideas honestly. Talons of the emperor requiring a balance of sisters and custodies moving in coordination is a fun, flavorful idea and having that be where the fnp got allocated is more engaging than the index shield host, less reliable but more active. The offensive detatchment focusing on buffing martial katah is a cool considering the choices 9th gave as alternatives. The null maidens focusing on battle shock is pretty spot on i think. Auric champions giving heros/characters a boost is cool considering each custodian is supposed to be a heros in their own right. I feel like there's the makings of a really great codex here but it doesnt have the right support currently, It especially doesn't feel good when put along side the amazing ork codex. Hopefully they'll get a second go over soon to feel a bit better. In the mean time i want to see what i can make work from this.
To the comment that saying "Please forgive the writer, it's so hard to balance this game" here's my thoughts for just half an hour: --Turn the FnP to 5+ against MW and DW --Change the "Cooperation" detechment to something anti-psyker AND FnP 5+ --Give lone op to character models --Shift the cursed SoS detechment to a biker/vehicles-theme detechment. I don't know why those brain-dead writers can't think of these things which can bring entertainment AND balance to the game, so stop defending their heartless to Custodes🙄🙄🙄
Because they are incompetent and full of ignorance. Gw should be embraced or at least hyenad to be good. They think that they are popular because of them. Not because writers and sculptors. Modern Gw is like modern GB. Ignorant abomination.
Points is not the issues points should not be used to “fix” a situation made by very bad rules righting, lacking of internal balance and the fighters not understanding lore/fluff or fun/creativity which the whole game is supposed to be based on. Custodes are the most elite warriors in the setting (pretty much). They should Tank hits hard and hit like a murderously graceful truck! BUT in fluff are not an “army” so should find playing missions a bit more difficult (like they kinda do with current index rules) they aren’t supposed to have lots of bodies on the board.
The talons detachment could have been decent if rather than sisters getting +1 to hit they got lone op (or couldn’t be targeted) when near custodies. Cause they die so easily anyone with 2cents would just shoot them with small arm fire before targeting the custodies anyway
I think Lone Operative would be a bit much since you can pull some cheesy shit with line-of-sight rules but something like stealth and cover or the null maiden battle shock rules being added to their base data sheet would be cool. the battle shock boost would help the custodies take objective a lot better which is a weakness of theirs.
No worries guys the post codex update and summer FAQ will fix it. Right ? But in reality this is worse then DA and ad mecha. Both bad, but DA can be played like sm with no actual DA stuff other then a shroud and Azrael and just waves of tanks, and the ad mecha player can be an oil prince and buy those 200 infantry models. Custodes don't have a cruch outside source (their FW stuff didn't suddenly become Godlike) , they can't spam buckets of cheap units. We already seen how they are when they just lose the dev wound protection . Now they lost that, hit first , protection khatas, and all their units got nerfed AND more expensive. One could say it is a bit much of a change. Well at least they didn't end like my White Scars. And for a few months they were fun to play. Now all the custodes players can focus on getting and painting all the missing load outs , maxing characters and units tox3 .
I’m not salty we aren’t the most competitive viable army. I’m just disappointed the rules are so boring? I was hoping they give custodes some fun flavour even if a detachment only affected the bikes or something it would at least be fun even if it wasn’t meta. These detachment just don’t add anything to custodes at all.
for shield host you keep repearlting that you don't want two shield captains. You actually want THREE. To give double kata to 3 units triggering at 5+ in the turn of the army bonus.
Maybe something that would have helped Null Maiden Vigil is if units failed their battle shock test with 12 inches they took d3 mortals or are otherwise debuffed further.
Gotta admit Talons of the Emperor sounds like the best way to go. If you turtle up and guard some even a single squad of sisters with the rest of the custodes then that allows for lots of good synergies 🤔
Not if the points in the codex turn out to be accurate. Virtually everything got more expensive, by a significant amount. Up to a 75 point increase in some cases. With the leaked points, the Auric Champion box is 1845 points if you build all but 1 possible character 1940 if you do all of them.
@MrHoneuma yeah, but the codex was written months ago. Possibly even as far back as when they were originally a top contender. Not pretending to be an expert but there's plenty of room for change
I am a returning player after a long hiatus (2nd ed) and returned to play for the chance to play Custodes. I love the lore, i love the playstyle, and id be willing to pay more points to play like it. Should they have been nerfed? yes, but they were gutted. They are no longer elite, they are barely adequate. I will not pay for an $80 book only to, maybe, have most it retconned at a later date. What i am going to do is take my current custodes, put it on a shelf because I painted them pretty, then 3d print an entire new army and pirate a codex, then share it with everyone I know.
Really disappointing that none of the FW datasheets have made it into the main codex. The weak rules I don't care too much about, balance will change again in time. But the FW models remaining separate makes me unwilling to risk buying (or even kitbashing) any of them, since it feels like they are at high risk of being sent to legends or entirely removed next edition. I really hope the Cerastus knights will make it into the (Chaos) Knights codices this edition. After all, there are already plastic kits for them.
I think if Talons gave the 4+ FNP and some defense buff to SoS making that annoying to remove from the board instead of useless damege buff (I thought of something like stealth plus cover, maybe or I don't know), it would be great detachment it could make SoS actually a viable and usefull part of the army without really changing units a lot.
So, mathematically speaking no we won't. This entire book is gonna need 3+ errata to save it. I did the math and on average we're now a 41% win rate army. 43% IF you don't take any sisters in your army. Yes thats right you get WEAKER for taking ANY sisters in your army. On average (due to points increases across the board) you're fielding 3-6 less models that have a LOWER OC then 3/5ths of ALL units in the game across ALL factions. The best units bar none is 3-4 guard with spears and 1 shield or Gunstodes. Trajann got hit so hard and blade champion got hit so hard that Bike Captain with upgrades does better and holds up longer and better then both. I'm genuinely not trying to be negative as I love my custodes, but theres not a single good thing about this codex it's just bad across the board. I knew this was coming though and have since picked up a 30k army. 40k is dead for custodes.
@@ornado4773custodes are dead. We were too cheap for hobby and they could not scam us to buy new models, because they don’t have production power for it. So we would be gutted in oblivion
Something i was hoping to see on the sisters of silence was maybe some “anti-daemon” keywords bring thrown around. You know, the creatures made of psychic energy. They cringe at the sight of these women.
This avoidance of power creep I think will prove to be one of GW’s biggest mistakes with 10th edition. I get that getting stomped by the new hot thing can suck but it’s not like the winrates are THAT different to justify this change in design philosophy. Say what you will about 9th, but when a new codex came out, it was something to get excited and hyped about, not dreaded.
The biggest issue is the fun factor and they killed it... The index also wasnt fun but hoped for cool, fun rules in the codex... But not in this edition
i think since the rules feel a bit weaker you could run null maiden vigil to create battleshock area and still mostly run custodes (sisters could create decent support units there)
I've been collecting custodies for weeks and I'm painting my army and can't wait to play them. I'm sick to my stomach watching this video. This is so frustrating. I've done so much research and so much planning into my army and now it's all gone
Honestly, I think even null maidens has some play, if you support it with caladius tanksx that is. But it will take a while for everyone to learn how to play this new and weird playstyles. And surely, custodes won't be as strong as they were. But if they don't fuck us again with point increases, I think this codex at least will be fun and ok for friendly games. For competititve tho...
So bikes are still poor in 10th. Buying the battleforce box means 6 bikes you will never really use. its 1230pts then minus 450pts with the bikes =780pts The Patrol box on the other hand looks great. its =790pts
Oh yes, the Adeptus Custodes. The Imperium's most powerful and elite troops. So powerful that my 20 gaunts can killa whole unit of them on the charge. This is an army that should not be on the tabletop.
Changing the Talons FNP to work agains Dev Wounds would make no sense. It’s due to Sisters of Silence presence, which would not help against an assault cannon. It already works agains Psychic powers that use dev wounds and Mortals. i’d say it is working as intended
Lots of Mortal Wounds originate from other things than psychic (i.e. tank shock), so this argument is imo not relevant as the FNP works against those normally. The issue is actually another: based on core rules, Devastating Wounds still produce Mortal Wounds. The change to that rule is just part of the Balance Dataslate, which by itself is only a temporary rule adjustment. Hence none of the new codices reflect the change of DW as only the Balance Dataslate can do so without creating potential issues in the future.
@@christyrann7739 If that was the intention of the rules, than it would have been written like that as Sisters already have an FNP against psychic stuff only. As long as the rule works against Mortal Wounds, but not against Devastating Wounds, there is something amiss as for the game designers Devastating Wounds are still supposed to do Mortal Wounds.
@@davidgantenbein9362 it’s a protection galned by being in proximity to a sister. If they wanted something else they could just have kept the old fnp. Making it rely on the sister heavily implies it is the anti-psychic aura and should thus not work against tank shock Imo. You can disagree, it’s just my opinion.
@@christyrann7739 If we go with everything into „needs to make sense“, then a lot shouldn’t work at all like it does. For me it’s important that rules work, not if the detachment buff is strictly adhering to fluff. That said, Custodes should just have the 5+ MW/DW FNP native (imo has third Katah option) and Sisters of Silence should have gotten the Nexus Maiden rules as their faction rule. But that’s probably just my opinion.
@@KhobaiThat would make sense if there were more than 3 Sisters kits. 2 of those are inheirently limited by the fact that they're a transport and a character; you're not gonna buy more than a couple of those. So they want to drive sales of exactly 1 plastic kit (their troops)? One that was already a 2-of in the previous box set? Terrible business decision, if so.
Yes. But don’t forget: The change to DW only exists in the Balance Dataslate. DW in the core rules was never changed. What this means is that any rule adjustment to cover for changes to DW wouldn’t be written in the codex anyway, and instead be solemnly limited to the Balance Dataslate.
Ok just checking so that I know I could shrug wounds if magnus for example did devastating wounds to me via a psychic attack, I could feel no pain them
![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Good to see that despite all the attention to custodes characters with less than desirable rules changes and a whole detachment in the codex, the adepts at the GW rules team still have forgotten to give Valerian deepstrike for the entirety of this edition.
valerian and aleya always have keyword issues, for some reason (first release they were illegal to take in a battle forged army)
Hey, you can't blame GW. With all our named characters it must be hard to write rules for all of them....
It's even better when you realize the land raider has martial katah and the sisters dont.
Valerian loves to walk around a lot, and that is why he survived all this time...
I love that in the books the deepstrike was an actual thing that saved his life but nope no rules...lol
Auspex might be a Custodes irl, he never sleeps, never rests, ever keeping vigil to keep posting videos after videos.
I just don't want him to go away when his video production ability reduces by .00000001%
The only exception is that Auspex can never be nerfed. He's too strong.
@@wesleyw7908auspex needs a points cut
@@AntiEyeglassman Imagine a second auspex for the price of one. I don't know if RUclips would be able to handle that much power
So I guess we see what the guy who wrote the Mechanicus Codex worked on next.
And Dark Angels
So BA codex next , l am sure SW and IG players are quaking in their boots dreaming what the Imperial Design Team has in plans for them. And GK probably pretend that they will always just be index lol
Imagine having those deadlines. There are like 6-9 Months between writing and feedback. On the one hand management breathing down your neck, on the other side the neck beards.
Why would anybody do this to himself? 😞
@@piotrjeske4599 The nice thing is that my IG could have a worse rule and i would be fine with that. Anything other then standing still would be so nice to play I AM SO BORED OF HAVING ONLY ARTILLEY GET MY ONE BUFF!
@@hpenvy1106 so everyone who wants a balanced game is a neckbeard, got it, thanks, great contribution
What Custodes players want - Exceptionally high points cost, powerful rules and powerful datasheets
What Custodes players get - Has to have low points cost to be playable, weak rules, middling datasheets
And all the characters went up 20+ points (besides the blade champion)
@@tylerchadwell1267 codex points are not relevant they will digitally release them
@@sillyboy9314 yeah, I found that out later. Feeling pretty dumb with this one
@@sillyboy9314 yeah but costs for DA stayed high.
Pretty much every faction at the moment besides a certain few like Orks. Necrons have been taken over by Ctans you know remember in every fight Necrons in lore have they pull out a Ctan? Because they don't and your warriors barely resurrect to the capacity they need to so their not even run anymore yeah main unit for Necrons. Dark Angels your expecting elite of the elite soldiers but you get D1 relic weapons. Tyranids your monsters aren't durable and hit like noodles. Mechanicus yet again 'elite' army turned horde with how their stuff works, hits like noodles, fragile, no melee threat whatsoever, can barely even afford to actually run an army with them.
“10e will be less killy! So to help push that we’re removing all defence and making things more flexible in melee!”
Then looks at my orks leaks… okay sure GW
Fucked DG and AC. The loss of defence from some armies is very frustrating.
I assume you're talking about vehicles shooting in melee because melee has generally been pretty weak this edition
@@Grooviebones no, talking about how the codex makes Custodes more flexible in melee, now that katas are on a per unit basis instead of army-wide. This would generally “improve” their melee as they can now have units wounding on 4+ taking lethal while 2-3 can take sustained, all during the same fight phase.
I get why people are saying wait for the actually points cost, but hat really feels like they are saying "Yes these rules are terrible. But at least your units will cost less." I'd rather have high point value units with good rules than cheap ones. Also, I'd be more forgiving if we had been given more detachments. We are basically getting 3 detachments and 1 joke that you only run to piss off Grey Knights and KSons. I think the new Shield Host could have worked if it wasn't replacing the FNP rules. I could keep going, but I've spent enough time this week getting mad about this.
The codex points costs were also leaked today. Almost everything went up in points
Custodes with the rules they have now, would have to become substentialy cheap not 5-15 pts here and there, but rather stuff like 50 per unit of 5 . 5s of sister for 35pts etc. There is now way for the army to run , especialy the mixed detachment.
@@hannahgeraghty4201 there are not the good points out there
@@hannahgeraghty4201But those are probably the points from the codex, which will be obsolete on day one.
Keep in mind sisters are $10 per model just like custodes, but being only 1/5th of the point value. Unless you already have sisters, two of these detachments require you buying at least a few boxes in order to use them. My conspiracy brain is saying to me that sisters weren't selling that well, so the rules kinda force you to buy them. The Auric Champions box was kinda telling with it being bundled with two boxes worth of bikes (because bikes aren't worth buying). GW wouldn't have had so much trouble selling their plastics if they bothered to actually balance the army properly.
I'd like to add to the conspiracy: I think Sisters were going to get a few more models like the Kroot during detachment brainstorming but they got delayed or cancelled. Then because the rules team was so busy not playtesting or proofreading anything, they never got around to reworking the detachments.
Or $19 if you live in New Zealand.
Oh I collect admech and for me these prices sound fantastic
@@chadr2912 with what's going on in the books it wouldn't be overly surprising if we get another detachment with a certain Primarch type character by the end of the year.
It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true lol
GW writes rules to push model kits first with having a balanced game being a distant second
Here to pour one out for the goldy boys that aren't having as much fun rn
Now "goldly boys and girls"...
They could have made the solar watch come back to buff the bikes and vehicles. Dread host to be more melee, shield host make one tankier against devastating wounds and MAYBE a 6+ feel no pain. And Then you can have the Talons of the emperor detachment. and what could have been included in all of this? the 4+ against mortals. i feel like I'm whining a bit but man this was a slaughter for custodes. Maybe they just need to be field tested idk but I'm not excited for these rules. Ill always stick by the golden boys though.
Shield Host should have just been a flat 5+ feel no pain, for custodes infantry only.
The field test has already been shown when their deceased 4+ fnp didn't work on dev wounds.
@@frogsterlicous7040 yeah that's where I'm landing. They had absolutely dogshit winrates when they didn't get fnp vs dev wounds, they're just going to wind up back there, and probably worse because all the best stat blocks and stratagems got worse
That would require work and effort from GW, sooooo....
There's something really cool you missed about "Shoulder the Mantle" in the Auric Champions! You can keep a body guard unit in reserves, move a solo character just 2 inches away from deep strike range, then deep strike and attach the unit to them. 2 inches + base size means a 9 inch charge suddenly becomes a 5 inch charge. That does count on the character finding their way into charge range to begin with, but it would be much easier to keep them out of line of sight as a solo unit. The coolest thing about it, is you could keep multiple units ready to attach in reserves, and attach a guard squad or a warden squad depending on the situation.
I mean, that would work as long as your character can get within 9" without being shot off the board since he has no bodyguards until he's 9" away.
Very unlikely
Well this is actually REALLY dangerous🤦🏻♂️
Custodes character's best stat is T7 W7 with a 4+ invo and infantry keyword, without the protection of FnP, it's soo easy to kill just one leader🤦🏻♂️
You may say "Oh but my teammates are still in Deep strike, they can come down and pick you up any time" but without leader, that golden is no difference with terminator, which is also eligible to take down if I have to🤦🏻♂️
@@The_Penguin_8964Terminator Captain can take a phase where all damage against them is turned to one. You can give a character a 4+ FNP for a cp.
@@shanesmith4170 But that's only one Terminator Chaptain, You mostly will have three of them on board...🤦🏻♂️
Yeah, enjoy your FnP 4+ for free (once per phase 0CP for a stratagem), I'm gonna pick your friends now👋🏻 that's what will be happening🤦🏻♂️
So there is a Sisters detachment, a custodes plus sisters detachment, the index detachment, and one for characters. Cool, love that, absolutely nothing new for anyone who wants to run dreads, bikes, tanks, venetari, or basically anything that wants to shoot with some melee backup.
I like that 10th edition codexes aren't massive power creep, but do they have to achieve that by making them all so damn boring?
You see the ork one? That’s a bit of power creep but super fun!
After reading all the leak, this codex was written by either someone who's really new to Warhammer 40k or someone that really hate custodes. We have :
-1 Less Stance, 1/3 of our faction rule got remove
-1 useless detachment and the 3 others are rather weak or super restrictive
-Some of our old stratagem got nerf (cost increase)
-Lost Battleline on prosecutor (aka our only cheap battleline)
-Our name characters got nerf (we only have 3)
-Relic are okayish
-If we go with the current points in the codex, it's a joke everything got either unchanged/nerf and got point increase.
-We got no new datasheet (The only new thing we got is a melta spear on a already existing datasheet)
-We lost our 4+++ against mortal and dev (only way to get a 5+++ only vs mortal is in a weak detachment), when dev wound got change and we didn't have protection against it we had a win rate around 35%. We lost it again...
-Only positive Axes now hit on 2+
That why custodes players are mad. It feel we got nothing new/good and got nerf to oblivion for no reason.
I just bought a custodes army for my new army this year. Brings much sadness
@@moomixgaming9986play with index rules.
Gw should cancel 10 edition and start working on 11 now. And go full digital. They failed.
Feel for you, bud. It's the Dark Angels treatment. I know your pain.
They just made sure to tell everyone Custodes are Xisters now
Seeing the solution being "a big point drop" due to all these rules and mechanical nerfs, is code for "GW wants to sell more of the expensive Custodes minis, so make them worse per unit, but cheaper, to make them LESS Elite, and people have to buy and paint more".
One of the reasons I went for this army was the cost accessibility compared to basically any other (excluding the obvious Forge World stuff. Entry level is not going there).
Combat Patrol - 10 Sisters, 5 Custodian Guard, 3 Vertus Praetors
Boarding Party - 5 Custodian Guard, 3 Allarus Custodians, 1 Trajann Valoris
Add on a second Allarus Custodian box, a Blade Champion, and a box of Custodian Wardens, and you got more than 2000 points worth (depending how many Shield-Captains you opt for).
The fact they gutted and replaced the original Detachment is honestly the worst part of this. Cannot wait to see what response comes from GW on the general blowback from this gutting of the "elite" army.
Thankfully, pretty sure my friends I play with casually won't have issues with just sticking with the original Index Shield Host detachment rules. At least those gave us some decent ground to stand on.
Oh, but we did get that Pyrithite Spear as a Wargear option... for ONLY normal Shield-Captains, nobody else (ie: Allarus Shield-Captains that also use Guardian Spears, or even Custodian Guard or Wardens as an option).
do you mean the boarding patrol box with boarding party? Because there were no sisters in it. 3 Allarus, 5 Guards and Trrajon was inside
@@wernerfuhry You are right. I mixed up the Sisters with the Guards. I will fix that.
>excluding the obvious Forge World stuff
*cough cough* Recasts *cough cough*
There is a FW unit with 5 dudes with adrasite or pyrite spears. They want you to buy the FW catalog even if the unit is a custodian guard unit with a different combbination of weapons...
I'm thinking Auric Champions needs their detachment rule to also say "Characters who are not leading a unit still count as leading a unit for rules purposes", that way you could literally run all characters maybe? As it stands, it only buffs characters, and characters are not worth running solo, so its.... clunky, at best.
Losing battle line on prosecutors outside their detachment blows for one reason. You can’t attach greyfax to them anymore. She allowed them to be one of the best psyker character killers
With Auric Champions, you can make a legal list at 1975 pts with current costs that has nothing but 14 characters.
Are all the characters for custodes lone operators?
@@StigPrice None of them are.
@@EdBurke37 so how can you create a list of 14 characters??
@@StigPricecharacters don't "have" to be attached to squads. Lone op is just a rule that stops them being targeted by ranged attacks.
14 models sounds like they are about do die in a bulletstorm rather fast even with decent armor and fnp
Thanks for the never ending great content man, as a returning player (last played in 2005) - you're so easy to listen to!
I'm gonna say that I think the Auric Champions detachment is entirely and exclusively made for 1000pt games.
Hitting 1000pts with Custodes is as easy as running 15 models. You run Aleya, Valerian, and Trajann, three Blade Champions with two of them gaining the enhancements, toss in one Shield Captain, and a unit of Witchseekers and a unit of Persecutors.
If you don't wanna run them that way, you can easily run
Aleya
Valerian
Trajann
Three Blade Champions (Two with Enhancements)
Knight-Centura
3x Witchseekers or 2x Witchseekers + 1x Vigilators
The two of the Witchseekers stay back and hold objectives whilst the third squad of either Witchseekers or Vigilators is lead by Aleya.
You have two sets of four models that autohit and roll D6 attacks that deal 1 damage on your points and you have Aleya who can run Witchseekers or Vigilators, and if they die, then guess what? She runs back down the board and for 1CP she can attach to a unit and hold the lines.
If you really wanna play it safe, you can use Persecutors for their doubled range over the Witchseekers, but personally, I'd rather take my chances with the Witchseekers being point holders for 10pts more and always hitting over watching me roll 1 after 1 and losing a point because I ran up the board and tried to kick that nerd Magnus' ass with everyone else.
Vigilators got theyr Anti Psyker nerfed to 5+ for some reason, I gess they were OP as well, just noone knew it but workshop
I think the issue with the anti psyker 4+ is that is way too strong if against the good target but against everything else they were too weak BUT if they decrease their points to get great against other armies then by keeping the anti psyker on 4+ would just make them broken against things like grey knights.
@@malekith13 No, even with anti psyker 4+ they were still bad against psychic armies. They arent battleline so you could take max 3 units of them which were easy to wipe out and hard to deliver into melee.
no one ever took vigalators and psychers not nearly as prevalent not saying it matters much cause it doesn't but just put another stick on the nerf pile
@@malekith13they also increased their cost by 3 point per model. At least, that's how it is in the codex
I like removing the 4 up against mortals and dev wounds from a detachment so it’s not an auto take but it should have become part of the army rule instead of being removed all together
@@Khobai it didn’t make them useless especially on low AP weapons like gladiator reapers it just stopped them from being the absolute bane of custodes like they were before the recent change. And I don’t think points are a great lever to balance custodes. Even if it’s balanced I don’t want to see them lose their hyper elite status.
@@Khobaicustodes with fnp vs dev wounds wouldn't be a problem for other factions if they had specific anti heavy infantry units, like a balanced army should have.
Why punish custodes when instead gw could help the other armies with units that can deal with custodes type units, that way it isn't just an army rock-paper-scissors on whether you can or can't do dev wounds or "do custodes have anti dev wounds? ", but instead its a "dix this player bring their big anti infantry guns?".
If gw balanced their game and gave everyone full army lists with units for every role then suddenly weapons specific keywords don't become the reason the most elite army (on average) in the entire game gets dumpstered.
In this current meta, custodes need their anti dev wounds, or else they just lose. We saw how they dropped from 3rd to last to top 3 in win rate due to that single rule.
Great video going through what is frankly the worst output I've seen from GW. I'm incredibly disappointed in the lack of effort, consideration and cohesive balancing GW are putting into their codexs in 10th. It's beyond a joke at this point given how bad so many of them are.
Some of these dont even make sense, case in point:
GW: "Have a whole detachment that focusses on your characters"
Also GW: EVERY SIGNLE CHARACTER UNIT IS LOSING PART OF THEIR ABILITY. But your shield captain has the option of a spear and shield, so it's still balanced.
Literally could have done 4-5 detatchments (I'm not sure why orks get 6 and Custodes dont?!) that were the shield host flavours:
Shield Host (Solar Watch) - 4+++ with the stratagems from the index
Shadowkeepers - Army wide minus 1 incoming attacks in melee with debuffing stratagems flavoured from 9th (- 1str, stasis oubliette to fight last, remving use of invuln from 9th etc)
Dread Host - +1AP for shooting within 9" (oh look, saggitarum and hurricane bolters are now a bit more relevant again!) with shooting based stratagems (exploding 6's for the phase and things like that)
Solar Watch - armywide +1 to advance rolls &/or Fallback & charge with stratagems for mobility (some sort of auto advance, and something like if an enemy unit finished within 6" of you, you can immediately declare a charge even if you advanced that turn)
it's literally that easy GW.... the effort is pathetic
You mention points, but how low can Custodes go down in points before they are no longer Custodes? Back when Devastating wounds got changed and the Index detachment rule no longer applied, Custodes win rate went into free fall. That isn't the sort of problem that can reasonably be fixed by points, and it's going to be a problem that all of the detachments run into.
Super simple so GW doesn't get lost reading this:
-Individual guard/warden models capable of beating the brakes off unnamed Marine captains.
-Guard/Wardens=6W(same as Marine Captain), Terminators=7W and innate DevWound protection baked into statline of everything but the tanks (yes, dreads too).
-No more once per battle bs: Custodes drill for decades/centuries until every technique they know is replicable to perfection at a MOMENT'S notice. They don't have moves they can't repeat as necessary ad nauseum.
-Make the point costs ludicrously high. Like 80 points per model for a Guard. Whatever is necessary for a semblance of balanced, even if it means being UNDERPOWERED. Here that GW, we don't care if we're a meta army. We just want Custodes to feel like CUSTODES!
If GW can't get it together with fixing/figuring out a good way for Dev Wounds to work, this book is going to need an errata to have an army wide FNP rule added to defend against them. They can even just steal the 9th edition 'Aegis of the Emperor' ability name since I didn't see it used here anywhere.
I believe that was the name of the index detachment ability. Honestly it should have been moved to become a second faction rule as either the 4+ FNP against morals and dev wounds or just a flat 5+ FNP.
For those who are excited to get to kill Custodes more easily now remember this if the same happens to your army. However, in my personal opinion my disappointment is less on the nerfs to the army (rules can get changed and points can help) but this Custodes codex offers only 4 detachments with only a couple designed for just Custodes (which is even more funny given they could have just copy and pasted the index one as an option like the SM codex) the detachments don't offer a sufficient number of unique ways to build your army and have done nothing to make less used Custodes units interesting (it's not like we have a lot of datasheets). And these are likely the options we will have for the rest of the edition. It just seems uninspired, especially considering how much flavor and diversity is available in other codexes.
Gw are heretics. They even pushed Dei in last new brittonia book.
Custodes will likely get a big point drop with the upcoming balance changes, oddly turning them into yet another hordish army that requires getting more models.
if they do pull that shit ill be pissed.. i didnt buy these guys to play a horde army. i bought these guys to play the most elite of the elite. the definition of true quality over quantity. theyre supposed to be these demigod like unstoppable beings and they should FEEL that way. not be OP or faceroll people, but just FEEL powerful and tough. with this new crap, its going to be hard to feel that way when every defensive power get stripped away just to give them redundant amounts of melee buffing they NEVER needed. they NEED mobility and NEED survivablity so they can make it into the fight to DO the meleeing without half their squads getting murdered before they even get there. and they NEED that survivability even more still to hold that spot from the 80+ models that will be shooting them next turn....
They will not get a big point drop propel said the same shit with dark angels and there wasn’t any kind of huge point drop. I could see them changing the strategem to work on dev wounds but I wouldn’t count on it
@@davidcox6454 id rather they not drop the points tbh. i most people i know who went custodes didnt choose them to play a horde army.
As an Ork player, I seriously feel for custodes and I wish gw would show consistency with their codexes. That character detachment should have given characters +1 wound, +1 to wound, and +1 damage in melee (besides Trajan) if they really wanted to make a character focused detachment work.
I just don't get the design choices for the detatchments. I'm not a custodes player, but I feel like players don't give two shits about sisters of silence. The Shield Host switch doesn't look too bad imo, but why dedicate 2/4 detachments around sisters? I thought they'd maybe show the Vertus Praetors some love or maybe dreads. These choices just seem out of touch.
I was really excited to see the Talons detachment when it was first announced cause I wanted to be able to run a fun and fluffy army that fit the lore but the rules are so trash that it killed that excitement the moment I read it.
Narrative players are generally very invested in the Custodes and Sisters working together because that's how they were in the Heresy, and that was the entire premise of their reintroduction to 40k with Guilliman's return. The problem is GW has ignored the Sisters by excluding them from the first Codex, and then after failed attempts to incorporate them into the army, they haven't supported them with any models, HQs, rules, etc. So most players have no reason to care for them unless a given player is really invested in the Talons as a concept.
@@ARCThunder mmm not agree they worked a single time together during HH, to counter TS on a planet, after that Sos diseapear from radars, and keep in mind that they are not a billion but few. So GW fail on this side too...
Custodes player, SoS would be cool if they weren't hyper-focused on being anti-psycher and have the defenses of wet tissue paper. And also completely unsupported by GW in both rules and models.
The "hyper elite anti-psycher half of the bodyguards of the emperor" are T3 1W 3+SV. Oh, and their only named-character doesn't have their faction tag, so can't go into their only transport. The Index army/detachment rules didn't apply to them, b/c they're not [Adeptus Custodes]. There is 1 kit of troops with 3 build choices (boltors, framers, melee only), a rhino, and 2 characters (1 named, one generic), and *that's it* for models. It's a joke.
I wished for GW to include them more into the army with the codex, but they didn't at all. There's so much anti-synergy within the detachment/codex as a whole. Like the SoS [Leader]s don't have a 'Captain' ability (one free strat per turn), so you can't ever use the Talons detachment strats for free. And to top it off, the SoS-only detachment is a fucking joke.
@@ORISDOYVANthey worked together in the war in the webway too, amongst other times. it was a common occurrence
It's the GW formula now. No elite type armies. That doesn't sell boxes. Make the elite armies weak so GW can then just drop points, and you buy more models. Ad mech now custodes. The only reason they keep knights is the fact they cost 3 units for 1 knight.
The people I see saying shit like “I think Custodes will still be in a decent spot” really boggle my mind. Do these people not have basic memory?
It was only like 4 months ago where Custodes were sitting at a winrate in the 30% range because their FNP only worked on mortals and not devs. That one errata pretty much single handily shot them to one of the best armies. Now, they’re losing their FNP all together.
If they were one of the worst armies in the game when they only had a FNP against MW. How do you think they’ll be after not having a FNP for devs and mortals?
You're delusional and shortsighted. The lowest they ever dropped to was 42%. I will be surprised if they don't update the Talons of the Emperor to have the FNP against devs as well as mortals, but these changes are frankly going to boil down to "get good". They're broken currently, and as someone who's dealt with the state of Death Guard and World Eaters throughout 10th, suck it up.
Hey look, a Sister of Slient, you have your FnP (in 5+) to mortal wound now ! congratulation !
Just kidding, I know how terrible it is🤦🏻♂️
The more codexes are released, the more I think that:
a) There should have created a "Mortal damage" rule, like a mortal wound but all the damage applies only to one attack (so only one FNP and, if the attack overkills, the remaining damage is "lost").
b) The 0 CP rule should apply to the detachment stratagems, so you always have the option to use them (maybe you can only use the rule once, or something like that, I don't know).
I miss having 2000 points to use and getting about 5 units due to high points, but knowing they can withstand a ton of damage for the points. Now they just feel a bit lame.
12:04 Note that this strat cannot be made free if you are targeting an [Anathema Psykana] unit. Per rules on "reducing stratagem costs", all units targeted must have the ability to reduce the cost of the stratagem. Neither of the 2 Sisters characters have this ability.
The unit would need to gain this ability from some other [Leader], if possible. My playgroup doesn't build lists with "allied army" models, so I don't know if that can be done.
Aegis is a bit of a trap as it’s worded so that you must use it on the first failed saved. So your opponent can bait it out easily
Welp, that's one way to kill an army off.
Condolences from DA, player, you got the guy that made our codex
I give up. I guess I have to be an ultramarines player. At least then I'll have 40 different units to build an army with. GW can't ruin that many units at once can they?
@@defektedtoy2731but they will always nerf the units you have and buff the ones you don't want to buy
I bet Custodes armies/units will be on E-Bay in droves.
im supprised the basic contemptor survived given the old model it used is discontinued, would have at least thought then they would give the full weapon layout the new kit does (would have been nice to get lascannon arms in the codex)
Idk why they even felt the need to completely rip apart the current detachment it's right in the ideal range for win lose rates and no one would have really complained if it just saw some side nerfs to make things more interesting. Is this the only codex they did this too? I'm pretty sure the main detachment for space marines was kept more or less intact
They dumpstered the Necron awakened dynasty playstyle from the index to the codex. probably for the best but its nowhere near what it once was either
The main gladius detachment remained the same.
However they lost their wound rerolls from Oaths of Moment. So you could argue that's worse.
So was CSM and world waters and they butchered them lol mechanicum was never good and they never will be in this edition. Seriously this is the worst edition at least in Terms of fun and interesting rules. I’m sticking with 9th barring some miracle
1:01 I heard 'No Maiden' detachment lol
That's any space marine detatchment.
Thats the one detachment that doesnt want Sisters, so accurate
Maidenless detachment?
Honestly, this Codex is one I won't be buying. Shallow in flavour, quite flawed in rules, probably due to the Codex being written waaaayyy before release and writers lacking game stats information. None of the old Shield Hosts from 9th making it over to 10th in any form just sucks.
Look on the bright side, my fellow custodes players: Our golden gods are still fun to play in Horus Heresy!
Woah slow down there cowboy, dont give James workshop any more ideas
Agw of sigmar chaos warriors and stormcast looking real nice as an alternative too 😂
Yeah that is the only time my host is coming off the shelf now for years probably
… with rules like these it’s no wonder the emperor is interred on the golden throne
This was a depressing video to watch and then have to hit like, gotta support auspex though.
GW wants to make Custodes a horde army so they can make more money out of it. Step one: make them terrible for the current points cost. Step two: drastically drop the points cost. Step three: PROFIT.
GW is detestable, this is the unavoidable truth.
Their data sheets are too strong to ever be a horde army this is just some weird delusional nonsense… they are going to suck and that’s about it so I guess by your logic gw doesn’t want people to buy them.
Seems too sister focused now when theyre one of the worst costed models to buy on a PPM basis. Especially without huge stat buffs.
Why not make a bike centric detachment or dread focused if they wanted list variety?
I love these reviews! They are so helpful and I know they require a lot of time and effort to make. Thank you for working so hard for us!
We really need a unique model for the Sister of Silence Knight-Centura datasheet!!
RIP golden boys [*]
I want whoever wrote this codex arrested immediately.
I hate custodes but even I feel for their players. No army should get this kind of treatment. What makes it worse is the magnificence of the orks codex coming alongside it. My condolences to custodes players
Unless GW has changed it the Rhino has the necessary keyword to allow them to give custodes the FNP in Talons of the Emperor, so that could keep up and be more durable
No thanks GeeDubs, I’m keeping index rules.
The Emperor doth weep, for his goldy bois been done dirty.
Auric champions seems kinda fun.. KINDA.. ill be testing it.
no battleline for prosecuters anymore?? they DO know thats one of the requisits for greyfax to be able to go into their unit right? how ironic that in GW's attempt to make Sisters of silence more appealing, they took away the ONE thing i had planned to combo to make them worth grabbing. honestly this entire new codex is beyond depressing as a person who just bought his new custode army... and his first army too. like, wow. they just completely DESTROYED this army. "oh! but here! have more melee damage that you never needed!"..... gee, thanks... like i totally want to overkill a spacemarine that my original guardian spear did just fine against already at the cost of losing protectoin against mortals and dev wounds... what a deal... I cant wait now to watch my entire army get flat lined by the enemy turn 2....
As an Ork player, I just want to say "Tank Shock is back on the menu, boys!"
My 3000 some odd points of custodes become a bottom tier faction and you’re throwing around LOTR humor?! You clever bastard you.
Green beats gold apparently
GREEN IZ BEST
ORKS IS NEVA BEATEN
Unless you're dark angels.
This codex provided some really cool ideas honestly. Talons of the emperor requiring a balance of sisters and custodies moving in coordination is a fun, flavorful idea and having that be where the fnp got allocated is more engaging than the index shield host, less reliable but more active. The offensive detatchment focusing on buffing martial katah is a cool considering the choices 9th gave as alternatives. The null maidens focusing on battle shock is pretty spot on i think. Auric champions giving heros/characters a boost is cool considering each custodian is supposed to be a heros in their own right. I feel like there's the makings of a really great codex here but it doesnt have the right support currently, It especially doesn't feel good when put along side the amazing ork codex.
Hopefully they'll get a second go over soon to feel a bit better. In the mean time i want to see what i can make work from this.
points reduction would make them less elite, they need a points hike and rules buff.
To the comment that saying "Please forgive the writer, it's so hard to balance this game" here's my thoughts for just half an hour:
--Turn the FnP to 5+ against MW and DW
--Change the "Cooperation" detechment to something anti-psyker AND FnP 5+
--Give lone op to character models
--Shift the cursed SoS detechment to a biker/vehicles-theme detechment.
I don't know why those brain-dead writers can't think of these things which can bring entertainment AND balance to the game, so stop defending their heartless to Custodes🙄🙄🙄
Because they are incompetent and full of ignorance. Gw should be embraced or at least hyenad to be good. They think that they are popular because of them. Not because writers and sculptors. Modern Gw is like modern GB. Ignorant abomination.
Custodes were going to be my first choice before I went for Necrons. Kinda glad that I changed my mind. Regardless, they're still appealing. 😊
Rules change, models are eternal.
If you play what you love you won’t be disappointed in the end
Points is not the issues points should not be used to “fix” a situation made by very bad rules righting, lacking of internal balance and the fighters not understanding lore/fluff or fun/creativity which the whole game is supposed to be based on. Custodes are the most elite warriors in the setting (pretty much). They should Tank hits hard and hit like a murderously graceful truck! BUT in fluff are not an “army” so should find playing missions a bit more difficult (like they kinda do with current index rules) they aren’t supposed to have lots of bodies on the board.
The talons detachment could have been decent if rather than sisters getting +1 to hit they got lone op (or couldn’t be targeted) when near custodies. Cause they die so easily anyone with 2cents would just shoot them with small arm fire before targeting the custodies anyway
That's actually a really nice idea. If only GW thought of it.
Based the lore for SOS making them -1 to hit and causing battle shock tests automatically on units in 12 inches would be thematic.
I think Lone Operative would be a bit much since you can pull some cheesy shit with line-of-sight rules but something like stealth and cover or the null maiden battle shock rules being added to their base data sheet would be cool. the battle shock boost would help the custodies take objective a lot better which is a weakness of theirs.
No worries guys the post codex update and summer FAQ will fix it. Right ? But in reality this is worse then DA and ad mecha. Both bad, but DA can be played like sm with no actual DA stuff other then a shroud and Azrael and just waves of tanks, and the ad mecha player can be an oil prince and buy those 200 infantry models. Custodes don't have a cruch outside source (their FW stuff didn't suddenly become Godlike) , they can't spam buckets of cheap units. We already seen how they are when they just lose the dev wound protection . Now they lost that, hit first , protection khatas, and all their units got nerfed AND more expensive. One could say it is a bit much of a change. Well at least they didn't end like my White Scars. And for a few months they were fun to play. Now all the custodes players can focus on getting and painting all the missing load outs , maxing characters and units tox3 .
I’m not salty we aren’t the most competitive viable army. I’m just disappointed the rules are so boring? I was hoping they give custodes some fun flavour even if a detachment only affected the bikes or something it would at least be fun even if it wasn’t meta. These detachment just don’t add anything to custodes at all.
for shield host you keep repearlting that you don't want two shield captains. You actually want THREE. To give double kata to 3 units triggering at 5+ in the turn of the army bonus.
Henry Cavill does NOT approve of this Codex
His voice might be the one to re write the codex 😅
an additional change for the knight centura is they added a close combat weapon profile so she can fight in close combat if she takes a ranged weapon
Maybe something that would have helped Null Maiden Vigil is if units failed their battle shock test with 12 inches they took d3 mortals or are otherwise debuffed further.
Played two games vs DE. I got tabled in both games. We have lost so much durability it’s insane.
Granted, if you're letting DE shoot you, you're probably going to die no matter what
I played DE against a Custodes army at the start of 10th and I got tabled myself, insane how bipolar GW balancing is
Talons of the Emperor will affect the Sistsers Rhino?!!! That’s actually awesome!
Gotta admit Talons of the Emperor sounds like the best way to go. If you turtle up and guard some even a single squad of sisters with the rest of the custodes then that allows for lots of good synergies 🤔
Don't worry, custodes players. Sure, you got nerfed, but you'll points will go down so you're forced.......so you *get* to buy more models.
Not if the points in the codex turn out to be accurate. Virtually everything got more expensive, by a significant amount. Up to a 75 point increase in some cases. With the leaked points, the Auric Champion box is 1845 points if you build all but 1 possible character 1940 if you do all of them.
@MrHoneuma yeah, but the codex was written months ago. Possibly even as far back as when they were originally a top contender.
Not pretending to be an expert but there's plenty of room for change
I am a returning player after a long hiatus (2nd ed) and returned to play for the chance to play Custodes. I love the lore, i love the playstyle, and id be willing to pay more points to play like it. Should they have been nerfed? yes, but they were gutted. They are no longer elite, they are barely adequate. I will not pay for an $80 book only to, maybe, have most it retconned at a later date. What i am going to do is take my current custodes, put it on a shelf because I painted them pretty, then 3d print an entire new army and pirate a codex, then share it with everyone I know.
In the grim future of 41st millenium there are only nerfs.
Really disappointing that none of the FW datasheets have made it into the main codex. The weak rules I don't care too much about, balance will change again in time. But the FW models remaining separate makes me unwilling to risk buying (or even kitbashing) any of them, since it feels like they are at high risk of being sent to legends or entirely removed next edition.
I really hope the Cerastus knights will make it into the (Chaos) Knights codices this edition. After all, there are already plastic kits for them.
I think if Talons gave the 4+ FNP and some defense buff to SoS making that annoying to remove from the board instead of useless damege buff (I thought of something like stealth plus cover, maybe or I don't know), it would be great detachment it could make SoS actually a viable and usefull part of the army without really changing units a lot.
Eh. We'll endure. Could certainly do with some new points, but we'll find a way.
So, mathematically speaking no we won't. This entire book is gonna need 3+ errata to save it. I did the math and on average we're now a 41% win rate army. 43% IF you don't take any sisters in your army. Yes thats right you get WEAKER for taking ANY sisters in your army. On average (due to points increases across the board) you're fielding 3-6 less models that have a LOWER OC then 3/5ths of ALL units in the game across ALL factions. The best units bar none is 3-4 guard with spears and 1 shield or Gunstodes. Trajann got hit so hard and blade champion got hit so hard that Bike Captain with upgrades does better and holds up longer and better then both. I'm genuinely not trying to be negative as I love my custodes, but theres not a single good thing about this codex it's just bad across the board. I knew this was coming though and have since picked up a 30k army. 40k is dead for custodes.
Say it to 42% win rate custodians before Errata xd
@@ornado4773custodes are dead. We were too cheap for hobby and they could not scam us to buy new models, because they don’t have production power for it. So we would be gutted in oblivion
Something i was hoping to see on the sisters of silence was maybe some “anti-daemon” keywords bring thrown around. You know, the creatures made of psychic energy. They cringe at the sight of these women.
I feel like if Auric Champions was for the characters Unit, it would be my favorite and would actually be pretty impactful.
Green better color than Gold confirmed
Ooph, I've been waiting excitedly for your roast of this codex and then you hit us with the 1.5hr vid...
Hype
This avoidance of power creep I think will prove to be one of GW’s biggest mistakes with 10th edition. I get that getting stomped by the new hot thing can suck but it’s not like the winrates are THAT different to justify this change in design philosophy. Say what you will about 9th, but when a new codex came out, it was something to get excited and hyped about, not dreaded.
Valerian does not grant -1ap vs shooting btw. It’s still the same ability as it was.
No buffs here
The biggest issue is the fun factor and they killed it... The index also wasnt fun but hoped for cool, fun rules in the codex... But not in this edition
We got absolutely shafted
i think since the rules feel a bit weaker you could run null maiden vigil to create battleshock area and still mostly run custodes (sisters could create decent support units there)
I've been collecting custodies for weeks and I'm painting my army and can't wait to play them. I'm sick to my stomach watching this video. This is so frustrating. I've done so much research and so much planning into my army and now it's all gone
Does Castellan’s Mark work while the Term cap is in Deep Strike?
I can confirm that I've talked with Games workshop and they expect us to use the Horus Heresy one as a replacement.
I think Valerian is legitimately interesting in Auric Champions, being an incredibly cheap leader with decent abilities.
Honestly, I think even null maidens has some play, if you support it with caladius tanksx that is. But it will take a while for everyone to learn how to play this new and weird playstyles. And surely, custodes won't be as strong as they were. But if they don't fuck us again with point increases, I think this codex at least will be fun and ok for friendly games. For competititve tho...
So bikes are still poor in 10th. Buying the battleforce box means 6 bikes you will never really use.
its 1230pts then minus 450pts with the bikes =780pts
The Patrol box on the other hand looks great.
its =790pts
Oh yes, the Adeptus Custodes. The Imperium's most powerful and elite troops. So powerful that my 20 gaunts can killa whole unit of them on the charge. This is an army that should not be on the tabletop.
Great video dude. You truly are beyond super human.
Excellent review and saved me ordering this garbage codex, thanks!
Given all the lore descriptions, it still amazes me Sisters of Silence don’t have Stealth or Lone op.
Changing the Talons FNP to work agains Dev Wounds would make no sense. It’s due to Sisters of Silence presence, which would not help against an assault cannon. It already works agains Psychic powers that use dev wounds and Mortals. i’d say it is working as intended
Lots of Mortal Wounds originate from other things than psychic (i.e. tank shock), so this argument is imo not relevant as the FNP works against those normally.
The issue is actually another: based on core rules, Devastating Wounds still produce Mortal Wounds. The change to that rule is just part of the Balance Dataslate, which by itself is only a temporary rule adjustment. Hence none of the new codices reflect the change of DW as only the Balance Dataslate can do so without creating potential issues in the future.
@@davidgantenbein9362 To me That’s an argument to make it not work againt those since it doesn’t make sense 😅
@@christyrann7739 If that was the intention of the rules, than it would have been written like that as Sisters already have an FNP against psychic stuff only. As long as the rule works against Mortal Wounds, but not against Devastating Wounds, there is something amiss as for the game designers Devastating Wounds are still supposed to do Mortal Wounds.
@@davidgantenbein9362 it’s a protection galned by being in proximity to a sister. If they wanted something else they could just have kept the old fnp. Making it rely on the sister heavily implies it is the anti-psychic aura and should thus not work against tank shock Imo.
You can disagree, it’s just my opinion.
@@christyrann7739 If we go with everything into „needs to make sense“, then a lot shouldn’t work at all like it does. For me it’s important that rules work, not if the detachment buff is strictly adhering to fluff. That said, Custodes should just have the 5+ MW/DW FNP native (imo has third Katah option) and Sisters of Silence should have gotten the Nexus Maiden rules as their faction rule. But that’s probably just my opinion.
Man, comparing the Custodian Codex with the Ork one is night and day. Is obvious that the orks received the much better deal
Feels a bit wierd that out of the 3 new detachements, 2 of them focus on sisters. I really wanted to see at least one vehicule detachement :(
Maybe not vehicles, but at least a bike one🤦🏻♂️？
Bikers in Custodes are having a bad time🤦🏻♂️
@@KhobaiThat would make sense if there were more than 3 Sisters kits. 2 of those are inheirently limited by the fact that they're a transport and a character; you're not gonna buy more than a couple of those. So they want to drive sales of exactly 1 plastic kit (their troops)? One that was already a 2-of in the previous box set? Terrible business decision, if so.
If devastating wounds were made against custodes via a psychic attack.. e.g grey knights, that means they could still FNP it right?
Yes. But don’t forget: The change to DW only exists in the Balance Dataslate. DW in the core rules was never changed. What this means is that any rule adjustment to cover for changes to DW wouldn’t be written in the codex anyway, and instead be solemnly limited to the Balance Dataslate.
Ok just checking so that I know I could shrug wounds if magnus for example did devastating wounds to me via a psychic attack, I could feel no pain them