Does Degreaser Destroy Bikes And Their Bearings?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- When cleaning our bikes we likely spray degreaser near our bearings. You often hear of this being bad for them, so Ollie investigates whether this is actually the case! Is degreaser going to strip the bearings? Watch to find out...
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First lets explain what degreaser does - it is a cleaning fluid designed to strip grease, oil and dirt from your bike. Greasy oil and dirt are typically not soluble in water. However it far more soluble readily dissolves in liquids containing petrol and alcohol solvents - degreasers. Degreasers are really effective at removing organic dirt from your bike. So whats the problem? Bearings contain ball bearings surrounded by thick grease, to help lubricate them and prevent damage. They are designed to be watertight with the aid of seals.
The thinking is that the solvents in degreasers can penetrate the seals on bearings and then strip out the grease inside. The result is a bearing that performs like a mini washing machine full of cutlery. We want to see if this actually happens and to do this we have devised some tests - and this time we have got some incredibly sophisticated tests lined up.
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so much talk of: penetrating, balls, lube and moisture. My wife thought I was watching fake taxi again.
Brilliant!
@philz2002 me too 🤣
Hello Ollie, Tragically I see endless new bikes (Road & Full suspension), coming thru my shop only one or three months old with contaminated, ruined bearings. It breaks my heart to discover these new owners followed those RUclips "how to clean your bike" tutorials and then having to explain how that tutorial ruined their bearings. Most get angry saying "how can these companies and star riders promote such stupid cleaning advice", as they now face expensive bearing replacement. One customer went home, to get his Park Tool chain cleaner, borrowed a large hammer, and smashed it to pieces in our driveway, as his brand new, 1.5-month-old Canyon with ceramic BB, and ZIPP 303s bearings were shot. But hey his bike was spotless.
About your test... I was shocked when you removed the seal on the BB on a stick, as that bearing was full of rust and contamination. I'm just puzzled as to why you said it was not contaminated when in fact that's a classic example of how a ruined, rusted out bearing looks like. Why the lie??? As for bearing in the bowl test you were on the right track until you failed to spin the bearings while submerged. If you would have spun the bearings while submerged, they would have failed miserably, with the exception of water. Its the movement between the metal and the seal lip that allows the powerful capillary action of the soap & solvent to take action and easily go past the seal lips and into the bearings.
It's just so frustrating to see all these endless RUclips tutorials by admired riding personalities, and cleaning solution companies just smothering their drive systems with cleaning solvents directly on their bikes. Many using power washers farther aggravating the problem, then using brushes which just pushes yet more solvents & water into hub and BB bearings.
Please Ollie, you need to right your wrong and conduct a more honest real-life test. As this is not fair to those young men & women who work hard for months or years to earn enough money to acquire their super expensive dream bikes, then having them ruined with ill-advised RUclips videos. For a bit of my background, visit >>> bikelair.net
Dan sotelo what would you suggest the best way to clean your drive chain and bike in general don't mean to bother you I'm new to this you sound like you really know you're stuff
I am not a bike mechanic, but I owned a dive liveaboard for 15 years... I had about 15 different machines and when the poor old girl sank, I gained huge experience in how ball bearing are ruined by all sorts of things.
Some of those bearings cost me 1000's of dollars, so I dare say I got a "PHD" in getting ruined bearings.
So I also am completely flabbergasted by this video and cannot understand why this young man has gone out of his way to help people ruin their bikes!
Unfortunately the tests completely miss what is actually going to do the damage. Degreaser is absorbed by the grease and so won't be visible if it get past the seals. Water on the other hand is repealed by the grease which is why it didn't get in. Over the long term small amounts of degreaser getting in to the grease will change its lubrication properties degrading performance and possibly leading to bearing damage.
Also what I forgot to mention degreaser provides a bridge between water and grease. Therefore the water repellent properties of the grease will deteriorate.
there's way too much grease to start with anyway.
And I would probably change or relubricate the bearings after that long period of time anyway.
I'd second this, I was hoping there would be a wear test or running test after exposure. I'd expect the degreaser to break down the grease quite quickly as the bearing spins manipulating and mixing and the degreaser.
Yes. This was my thought too,
I have just gone on a binge of GCN amd GMBN videos and it seems that the quality has jumped drastically recently across all platforms. Keep up the great work all of you.
Oli and Emma, from a geologist, thanks for the good science.
Freshly packed with grease? Where'd you get the grease ollie? Its brown and pooey.
I thought you were going to say "Pool number 4 is water, to simulate ... England'
That’s exactly what I was expecting too!
Is degreaser a problem if it is spayed on carbon fiber components (i.e., gets onto the carbon fiber frame, for instance, when you're cleaning your drivetrain on your carbon fiber bike or using degreaser or alcohol on your carbon fiber chain stay to put on frame protector tape)? Thanks, Tony
I have a question ? If you did seriously degrease your chain and washed with soap/water after, let it dry. Can you re lube it properly and even while drying keep it it lubed slightly to prevent rust. And just re lube when throughly dry?
If water and soap get in the rollers removing factory lube, and it re lubed when not internally dry, won’t that compromise the new lube?
Yes it does, learned it the hard way. Now only cleaning the chain carefully. For sprockets use a rag.
It does take 3-6 months to kill your rear freehub, but it does.
Ollie adds a lot of what we miss from Matt. The cape joke made my day.
I have managed to get corrosion in my Di2 rear derailleur probably from cleaning obsessively and letting it air dry once or twice. Hopefully this will be something Shimano covers under warranty. The thing doesnt maintain tension well anymore which is a problem riding in the small ring and anything above halfway through the cogs. I never used high pressure water. Anyway, be careful. My LBS managed to partially free it up but I am still bummed out.
Stuart Dryer -- Nobody could replace Matt, this guy is just a twat.
Yes. But need to work on his laugh... 😁
Ollie is def the best addition to GCN, was the only reason I watched Cycling Weekly
Yeh bring back Matt I miss his laugh 😆
@@ATXAG He was on cycling weekly?
Best Ollie video yet. The humour more than made up for the bogus science. He’s definitely the next best thing to Matt and had me chuckling throughout.
What kind of bearings were used? Are they sealed in both sides? Also rotating the bearings while submerged would have been insightful or at least agitating the liquid (a la ultrasonic parts washer). Also BB bearings are my least concern, wheel bearings and freehub bearings are my concern.
Joshua Piccari rotating them under load would be great yes. A much better simulation. The bearings were free hub bearings.
Hmmmmm. I'm not sure I buy the `specific gravity' argument. Is it possible that the degreaser actually causes the seal to swell slightly, and this prevents solvent getting in?
Interesting video. I think there are other characteristics in addition to relative specific gravity of the various solutions. These include the fact that grease is hydrophobic, which repels water. Soaps and solvents break that down. There is also the relative viscosity of the liquids. Less viscous solvents would have an easier time getting into the bearings. On a practical level I was riding on the coast in California a couple of years ago with a relatively new Camagnolo bottom bracket and bearings in my bike. There was some accumulation of salt water on the road, due to ocean spray. After the ride I washed the bike thoroughly (in the hotel shower). About a week after I returned home one of the bearings in my bottom bracket seized completely. I don' know for sure that this was the result of the salt water but it seems likely.
Degreaser.....what's the effect on anodised parts. I've noticed that since using degreaser...and WD40 to clean my bike, the anodised parts notably the 105 chainset and anodised spoke nipples has started to come off. Does anodising have a certain shelf life ? She's only 5 years old and the chain rings where fresh on last year and have started looking faded too.
Any ideas ?
What about strong compressed air? Is that harmful to sealed bearings?
I never spray degreaser on to the moving parts of a bike, I prefer to spray it onto a cloth or brush first then clean the part (like chainrings). If it was a gear cassette that needed cleaning I'd rather remove it and clean it properly off the bike. Spraying bearings once might not do much harm but over time I think the grease would start to break down. In the winter salt water off the roads seems to destroy bearings, especially bottom brackets and headset bottom-race bearings.
These days people see spray nozzle and figure, let's spray it wherever they can get to and dosage is huge. Many people don't even realize amount of degreaser they use for cleaning a bike would get clean about half of tanker.
"mini washing machine full of cutlery" - absolutely brilliant
I will no longer ride my bike into vats of Coca Cola.
Right, but beer is still okay
Love to see these experiments done on other bike parts and on parts that don't have sealed bearings. I have a vintage Raleigh SuperCourse. No sealed bearings there. Are my freewheel, bottom bracket, jockey wheels, headset bearings getting damaged by repeated washings with degreaser? Great show!!!
Mr. Luigi Bearings without seals are more vulnerable, so keep degreaser away.
Jan Willem Kuilenburg Thanks!
There have been several videos on this from different sources, and on bikes that have modern bottom brackets. But nothing on older bikes with caged bearing. Or wheel bearings which seem more susceptible to grease break down. Haven't seen anything on that.
those are interesting findings. I can tell you that I washed my bike with WD 40 Bike Degreaser, and I used a lot. After cleaning it all up, my tire squeaks when it goes around at the hub when the cassette isn't spinning. Word to the wise, use with caution.
Should have one more test on our sweat too. Most of the time our swear dropped to BB. Most importantly, first time i come across spraying mosquito with decreaser, wonder how effective is that. JJ. Great job ollie !
Acids actually prevent Corrosion. Alkaline (bicarb, sodium Hydroxide etc are corrosive) for example concentrated phosphoric acid is sprayed on to inhibit rust.
However tho, the last time I clean and degrease my bike with degreaser, my bearings got all rusty and kinda not usable anymore. I rinse it off thoroughly too after using the degreaser. Anyw idea why?
Not saying that your experiment is BS but mine turn out differently.
@gcntech
Big caveat (same as in Si's video) is that the BB is way better protected than hub or headset bearings. Trust me after half a CX season you'll see a big difference in the bearings
My take on it is - first, ride a year on wheel bearings (next to the sea like many of us do - through all conditions). The 'new' seals will have worn a bit (especially from sand as an aggregate), and will most likely have allowed ingress of salt water, or egress and dissipation of bearing grease just from being used - then test out the degreasers. It seems to kill wheel bearings around here in 2 to 3 years. Freehub bearings seem especially open to problems and degreasers.
Solvent doesn't change the colour of the grease, it still would have got in, sealed bearings are dust resistant not liquid proof.
I think it would be interesting to see where is the best location for a bike computer. In front of the stem like all the pros run it to keep a clean line, on top of the stem, or some where else entirely.
Initially thought Ollie had lost his bearings, but actually he turned out to be a GCN superhero with his new cape
Degreaser does not make any damage to the bearings but using it afterwards without proper lubrication. In case of the chain is the problem is that degreaser can clean out lubrication from tight places that you cannot get it back with any types of spray.
Video request: how to attach a bell to your drop handlebars so that you can brake and ring your bell simultaneously
Ollie is the type to use a bell tbh, total bellend
i use the Crane E-NE bell, mounted upside down so that the lever is where your thumb naturally rests when on the hoods
the attachment mechanism fits a wrapped handle bar
It's called tire bell
it would be more efficient to just shout as loud as you can
Is prising off the seals on a sealed bearing destructive?, can they be replaced?.......
I enjoyed your humorous approach, Ollie, and thanks for addressing one of my greatest fears, a fender-bender with a Coca-Cola tanker.
Ollie, couldn't the water penetrate better due to capilarity pulling the water through small gaps in the seals? Water is polar so capilarity will operate, but since degreaser interacts with grease it should be non-polar so wouldn't have capilary properties. I'd think the difference in density is probably to small to explain it.
Hello team! Thanks for the interesting experiment. 4 hours of submersion is extreme but, if those bearings were under load while being sprayed/submerged, couldn't it have made micro play in the seal/shield that made a difference in the outcome? I am in the process of building a newbike myself, and just installed bb last night, asking myself the same question, because I was using a used bb cleaned with degreaser inside out. Haha
Have you ever consider to do cycling-specific stand-up comedy, Ollie? You are amazing at it! Can't stop laughing. Also, as Emma, you leave me with more questions that answers... which is a wonderful pedagogic achievement. (Gotta recon the effort of ppl behind the vid, too).
I love Ollie's awkward humor 🤣🤣🤣
Did you get your money back on the hose gun after you used it ?
I noticed that too hahab
So cheap
pretty sure it was just done as a joke
This guy is ace, more down to earth than some but knows his stuff. Chapo
Good video, i wonder what would happen to the bearing if they were actually rotating during the experiment, you would probably find a massive difference in the results.
I washed my muddy FS MTB in a fresh water lake and one week later the bottombraket had signs of rust and had to be replaced. The other bearings felt okey. I changed grease in the hub bearings. So no good idea to take a swim with the MTB.
Very interesting. I suggest using larger sample sizes in each scenario, more than one barring case in each bowel, to compensate for possible variations in the seal, from the factory.
Adding even one bearing into one's bowel surely would void the warranty of both the bearing and the bowel.
loves a shitty bearing
Pulled a fast one on me, GCN. I was hoping you’d say bowl #4 was to simulate the UK.
Well done Ollie. ...great content and delivery 👍
In a real world, the bearings will be turning thus it will spread the contamination and wear of the bearings. This test is good but can be improved by testing if we have a bearing rotating machine that will be sprayed with degreaser/coke or salt once in a while and compare the results.
Yeah, because you're constantly pedaling while washing your bike, right?
Hahahaha
Cerveza: No, because you're constantly pedaling while riding down salt-covered wet streets all winter, smart guy.
@@georgehugh3455 I don't, but that's beyond the point. Take the joke and be done.
@Cerveza de Garaje why don't you "take" the fact that you made an idiotic comment and move on...
I always use degreaser and even wd-40 very carefuly when servicing my bike. In particular, I always take off the chain to clean it and use a rag with a little bit of degreaser to clean chainring and cogs.
I always service my bb bearings and for that matter all bearings by opening seals and clean and regreasing regularly it’s a must for Hawaii cycling. I currently have over 20k mikes on my bb bearings
Ollie is the best presenter on GCN. Hilarious and entertaining!
I was constantly using degreaser to wash my road bike, in particular chain and cassette. Unaware degreaser was breaking down lubricant in bottom bracket. I stopped using it.
What is the history of the containers? Small residues of soap will reduce the surface tension of water, and that will help the penetration of water past the seals. Also keep in mind that the viscosity of water is surprisingly low, allowing it to penetrate even without the aid of soap. Now, soap and water will be around when cleaning your bike anyway, so in that respect the test may actually be a good one, assuming the bowls were washed beforehand. Also note that soap will stimulate corrosion.
In all: clean your bike, don't overdo it. I assume manufacturers will test their degreaser and other cleaning agents against real bikes to avoid damage claims.
Warning: Joe 90 aka Angry Loo is having fun but don't directly blast your bearing with any fluid it could result in expensive failures. Some bearings have "seals", a rubber or polymer contacting ring where the inside lip slips on the inner metal ring. The contact pressure is light to avoid excessive friction. Cheap Seals which are generally used on bike components aren't that accurately made. So may not be completely circular. This can leave a small gap around the circumference. Probably why some for the bearing allowed in the fluid. Seals also wear over time and eventually open leak path is possible. Other bearings feature a "shield" which is a metal or polymer disc which generally clip or is pressed into the outer steel ring and have a close "clearance" not contacting the inner moving ring. This shield has no contact friction so is used on high performance applications. The shield resists dust / grit and to a small extent liquids from entering the inside of the bearing. The grease or sometimes oil inside the bearing is generally retained to do its job or making a boundary film between the metal rings and the steel or ceramic ball. Spraying directly at a shield bearing is a bad idea because the clearance is a leak path. Some lubricant can ooze out or either type of bearing over time and attract crud when exposed. The best way to clean up any crud is to wipe it off and as necessary strip down clean the parts check the condition, replace or reassemble and lubricate as appropriate. An example of a sort of shield bearing is a 105 jockey wheel. The gear is composite, there is inner plain bearing bush and outer shield to prevent crud getting to the bearing directly.
"not the aquatic mammal" 😂
should have the sound and video
Penetration.. Into the bearings 🤣
Would you mind repeating the four cup experiment but with revolving bearings?
Agreed, how about a fifth bearing left untouched to do a visual comparison?
I'd like to see a focus on the bearings in the wheels. Especially the free wheel. That's where I have my biggest problems, and I feel like degreaser may be a factor (despite my careful application).
I've had the same bike for the past 3 years and it gets used pretty hard and regularly. I've dipped it in rivers used well to much de greaser and the only thing I've had to change is the bottom bracket from to many wheelies lol
*Video Idea:* I've heard conflicting advice about chains. Some say it is best to thoroughly degrease a new chain then lubricate with your own chosen elixir, that way you are not mixing lube types. Don't cross the streams. Meanwhile others claim that degreasing a chain is the worst thing you can do because it strips out the factory lube that is inside the rollers and that is basically impossible to replace on an assembled chain. Surely this calls for some GCN experimentalisation?
I want to see a video asking …….would using nitrogen in a latex innertube slow down the air loss if so by how much.?????????
I can only imagine that you can buy Chemistry PhDs in the GCN shop.
Haha! Funny you guys used an FSA Gossamer crankset for the test...probably the best place for it, as in not on a real bicycle...
"A mini-washing machine full of cutlery" Great picture. And the next best thing to a NASA lab is Simon's driveway? Of course it is! HAHAHA!
An informative and entertaining vid. Ollie makes a great addition with his wit and humour.
Ollie again stealing the show... thumbs up!
On the degreaser note. I only use degreaser on parts where I can make sure 100% I can dry/remove it. Parts like a chain and/or bearings, I don't dare. I had to throw a chain away (in good condition) because I could not remove the residual degreaser, even after several rides, it leaked degreaser leaving a permanent black, rough sounding and degreaser wet chain.
This is a great video, but what about those of us still using cup and cone bearings all over their bikes?
Albert Stichka Cup and cone bearings are more vulnerable to ingress of degreaser and water.
That would explain why I have to keep cleaning and regreasing them :(
«not the aquatic mammal, but little nylon covers» 😂😂😂
i drench my bike in isopropanol every now and then. is this bad?
I'm ln the Truman show. Decreased and washed my gears yesterday, today I go out for a ride and my back wheel is all clicking and clunking. This video popped up on my phone 5 mins into the ride lol yet to check the bearings, but it seems degreaser may have caused problems.
Please can we have a video about road salt in winter? And the effect on your bike?......
Thank you. For ages now I have been so confused every time I heard someone say "seals", as, embarrassingly, I thought they *were* talking about the aquatic mammal.
... and what happens when the moisture of the 4 different liquids is still on the bearing and the rings are spinning?
Rick Wakeman would be proud of the closing gag. Funny vid, thanks.
Interesting results. I clicked the up thumb. To do this test right, you need five bowls of each solution, with bearings with randomized manufacturing lot numbers, from different manufacturers, with different wear intervals in the bearings' lifetimes, and the bearings need to be in use while submerged. To make things even worse, I'm pretty stupid, so I'm sure I'm overlooking several other things.
I think you got it wrong, alcohol can rot some synthetic materials but to clean bearings I do not think alcohol is best, you can clean them with WD40.
"Penetration ... of the bearings" - I'm glad you clarified
Ollie Experiment! I am new to E-Shifting Mechs, and I have been curious on how well E-Tubes (electronic shifting electrode cable), hold up to exposure of degreaser or water or solvent like WD40. I try to be as careful as possible and cannot afford to buy new ones (bike broke my wallet forever, but I am happy guy👍) Could you try sort of same experiment on E-Tube durability. Thank you.
Bilt Hamber Surfex degreaser light dilution to clean chain, same with a toothbrush to clean cassette and chainrings, even lighter dilution to clean frame and wheels and absolutely no need to worry about bearings, clean the bike regularly and there is no need to go mad with degreaser or pressure cleaners.
This is entertaining as long as you don't take the science part too seriously. Obviously this is far from how scientific experiments are carried out.
What about WD-40 on cassette and chain before washing? Is that ok?
Ollie has been getting better every video.
did anyone notice the colour of the grease in the bottom bracket. Looks a bit like contaminated grease to me.
Very informative and entertaining video Ollie! 😂
Ollie interpretation skills are the best moments of the video
These tests really need to have a new untouched one next to the bearings for comparison.
Spray smashing the stuff is quite stupid because it depends on the construction if you directly hit the bearing its why worse than your gravity explanation due to higher pressure.
How about a review on high quality degreasers vs cheap dollar store degreasers?Are the cheap ones more harsh? Can they harm paint, decals, etc?
No surprise there was initially no ingress of degreaser or water, the seals are dsigned for that purpose. Putting a pressure washer or even a direct, close proximity garden hose is likely to force fluid into the bearing where it will remain and not flow out. "Poping the seals out" is OK, but like anything they need replacing due to wear on the surface that touches the moving part, using a screw driver or similar to remove them accelleartes the mechanical damage.
How about a video about how everyday bike users maintain their bikes with WD-40 on every surface, pivot and bearing? Then ride them day in and day out in all sorts of weather conditions. Eventually, those bikes end up in the neighborhood shop with strange grinding noises, binding issues and stiff chains. Oddly, they are shocked when they are told they need new bearings, hubs, BB shells etc. for their 190.00 Wal Mart bike. They are still shocked when you show them the pile of metal shavings that were pulled from the bearing shells due to pitting , crunching etc. Yes, I saw this all to frequently while working in a neighborhood shop many moons ago. We serviced high end bikes on occasion but mostly worked on the daily work horses of the bicycle world. That is what pays the bills in most shops.
With chains, if you use solvent and do not allow 100% of this substance to evaporate, you will degrade the lubricant and increase wear. This is a common problem as chains hold solvent on internal surfaces.
Surely the lower surface-tension of the degreaser would result in a greater tendency to wick past the seal?
I think it would not. Lower surface tension results in smaller capillary forces. Therefore the degreaser is less able to be sucked into the ball bearing through small gaps between the seal and the housing itself.
You gotta love a good seal pun.
How about a video on what Will happen to a bike if left uncleaned? So, for how long would a bike be able to ride with no or little loss i efficiency without being cleaned... Maybe even depending on time of year...
Depends what part of the bike we are talking about. Externally such as frame etc dirt will have no effect. The inside of bearings including the chain if left with old contaminated oil/grease will wear out badly and maybe fail completely.
@@Ed.R yes, I know, but it would be interesting to do the experiment 😊
so at the start they say its new grease, but when they open it up for the first time, that grease looks pretty worn and sludgy.....
either its old grease, or degreaser let water into it
Could you please make a video with an overview of different BB Systems and norms?
I suspect The variability of penetration is more due to variance in the seals in the individual bearings. The degreaser bearing probably had a better seal than the others. You would need to do multiple bearings in each solution to decrease scientific error (make the experiment more powerful).
Its because the degreaser was absorbed into the grease. The experiment should have continued to see what the long term effects are with the bearing rotating and under load.
I couldn't help but think about Moss as this guy was talking.
Yes, it's critical to get your bike clean of all that disgusting grease. Make those bearings shine. Bike sales folks swear by this.
Coudn’t it be that the degreaser has penetrated the seal you just can’t see it! The result might be a much slower degration of the grease in the bearing than you test will show. This could lead to the feared dyr bearing within weeks maybe?
the reel question is: are those NTN bearings?
Great “fluid” delivery of a pretty teccy subject.. nice one Ollie 🚴💥
Ollie absolutely smashing it this episode :D