If I recall correctly from Ian Flynns podcast, Shadow was always intended to be infected in that issue to raise the stakes and show that no one, even someone as powerful as Shadow, is immune to the threat of the virus. The execution however, was ruined by the rules and mandates SEGA has put on Shadow as surmised. Apparently there was even a draft that SEGA shot down where Shadow was supposed to remove his Inhibitor Rings and get infected because he was reckless with the boost from it and assumed that THIS is what would grant him immunity to the virus. But alas. We got the version of the issue we got, and it's subpar. Really hope they loosen the rules they have imposed on Shadow sometime soon...
This is the type of “dark” story I want from the series. I want to feel the weight of the story and see how these characters overcome challenges. I want to the story to make me care. Forces didn’t do that at all. This story had me at the edge of my seat all the way through.
Flynn said the Shadow scene was going to have him try to burn off the infection by removing his limiters, but Sega didn't want to make that reference. Flynn later said in hindsight that a smarter move might have been to rewrite the scene entirely instead of salvaging the old one, but he was too pressed for time.
Honestly I never used to like cream as I was never a fan of her in sonic x (or the games) but the IDW comics actually made me like her. She’s not one of my favorites but still.
I honestly love Rough & Tumble. They are simple by design and are supposed to be simple mooks to fill out the rogues gallery. They have great designs, fun personalities, and really great running gags + interactions with other characters, particularly in Bad Guys. Trying to make them too interesting or giving them intricate motivations would kind of ruin their charm and make something needlessly complex. I respect your take but I just think they're great the way they are. Not everything needs to be fleshed out or complex.
I watched this arc through the adrenaline dub and I've absolutely loved the dark tone that arc went for watching these kids go through the events of this arc was amazing and I loved Starlines character which was fleshed out more over time. Though I'd say I have issues with Shadow's characterization. "Cowards Run, I Win". Really? I know about Sega mandates but that was just edgy for the sake of it
Shadow will always have stupid moments like that due to the mandates. BUT he also had a LOT of good moments too. Like his fight with Sonic over what to do about Eggman. THAT is Shadow, and you completely understand his POV.
@@acemstudio I def belive there is some merit to this version of Shadow. It's just there are a lot of parts that doesn't work for him and it genuinly feels like writers try their hardest to make him work with the limitations.
I mean, yeah. But at least we have the benefit of this being a misunderstanding. Shadow thought Sonic was saying. "Ooo, you should run, you can't fight these guys, unlike me" Amd them, after the metal Virus, Shadow even beats himself up about it when he realises it
People are always quick to judge characterization as bad, the exact moment it stops being their familiar fanon and actually reflects a story they havent' heard before. Something that is always kept out of the US publication culture for being "unpopular", so it REMAINS something you need to reach out FOR, to actually LISTEN to foreign stories. Shadow is such a character, bult on Japanese archetypes that all these western viewers just chide as "vegeta-clone". Shadow is following the ORIGINAL Japanese Green Ranger archetype, not the one revamped for the US Power Rangers audience. The one people only know as "anti-hero" with a heart of gold, something like Han Solo. What Shadow is, is GENUINELY DARK reflection of heroism, like Punished Snake, the symbol of losing the ultimate fight PERMANENTLY, and that's where his motivation comes from. He doesn't jsut naively get over it and "become good", he reflects on SONIC being the hero, and for that reason he weighs HEAVILY on Sonic as responsible for PROVING the value of heroism. Not share that burden, but doing the cleanup when heroism fails. That's the anger in Shadow, he is the one Sonic fails the MOST, if he fails, because he wagered going against Shadow on heroism NEVER failing. If Sonic can't handle the responsibility, that's like breaking a PROMISE to Shadow, the promise to make harder measures unnecessary. But certain people, such as people who live on a lot of outsourced labor from Asia crating their iPhones so they don't HAVE to make those sacrifices and dirty their hands, meaning Americans, are pretty much completey blotted out from ever hearing this side of the story. So they just glitch out and reduce it to beign a vegeta-clone. YOU start with the Western mandates to purge this story from ANY fiction, while Superheroes remain just a popular glorification of "heroic" military sacrifice. Thats why this topic is so unfamiliar and uncomfortable to you. You would only EVER accept this character as an outright villain throwing a tantrum, like Zemo, and if Zemo DID move to he heroic side you would call him another vegeta-clone half-assing it, despite doing MORE heroism than the Zemo we have. The way Shadow DOES push his means of villainy into doing good things, the Punisher with enough moral character TO NOT BE the Punisher. He RELIES on Sonic in that, adn you chide it.
This arc is one of the best Sonic stories just ever. Though Shadow has some of his stupid mandated moments, he's at his best here in the comics in general since Sonic X and Sonic 06. His argument with Sonic over Eggman is quite gripping, and you understand him entirely. And for the first time, you question Sonic's benevolence. A lot of people were mad that movie Sonic seemed to have no problem killing Eggman. But one has to remember, in Black Knight, Sonic had no problem with potentially having to kill King Arthur either. He said it himself. "Can't be the hero all the time." here, Sonic let his mercy win out. And it cost him dearly.
Okay, this was a really good video. You broke down the different elemnts of what made this story great incredibly well!! This was really really enjoyable... Id like to say though, in terms of character personalities I personally prefer to think of it as the writers refining what was there based on decisions the characters have been shown to make in the games,
This was a truly interesting Saga and your Review/Rundown/Breakdown of the Metal Virus Saga are both interesting and fascinating, i will look forward to Part 2.
I hope you also do mini side stories of this arc because I really want to see your read on what Metal goes through int his arc without even a word. Original Rival getting this much charcterization without even a line is incredible to me. But this also applies to most of the characters. All of them feel like genuine people. But I will say this for Shadow. I do think this is a wrong charactrization for him like everyone else. But I do see some merit on this version of Shadow. Obviously not the part where he for some reason "doesn't care about anyone" thing but more of the "he thinks he can handle everything" part. I do actually think that part can be applied to Shadow and used as a flaw he has. And it can be explored really deeply. So while I do think some parts of him is not good I do think there are some parts of him that is great to add to Shadow in general. Rest of the arc is great either. Obviously you haven't covered the rest yet but this arc really makes me love Sonic's relationship with Eggman and Metal more and more. It's definitely one of my fav Sonic stories.
17:43: Well, Lion King and Muppet Treasure Island are kid's movies, and they showed characters die a permanent death. Heck, in the latter, Risso The Rat even says "He died?! And this is supposed to be a KID'S movie!" and "We... are... standing.... in a room with a DEAD GUY!!!😟!".
Great review, though I just want to point out you might’ve skipped over the 2019 annual and the Tangle and Whisper miniseries, that annual introduces a new character who’ll become a bigger player in the coming story arcs and the Miniseries take place before this and is really good.
Honestly Omega just attacking a zombot shadow also feels out of character for him. Especially after 06 where he seemed hurt that he was the one to capture shadow in the future.
It really is a shame about Shadow. I don't really take issue with him addressing Sonic so aggressively, cause, yeah, to an extent, this could've been avoided. I get why Shadow would be frustrated. But him getting this cocky and not being careful enough just does not track with how he is. I really don't think he has that much of an ego. He knows he's hot shit, sure, but he at least knows what he is and isn't capable of. It's sad and frustrating and I hope Sega eventually wakes up and realizes we want the REAL Shadow back (whatever that means to you).
This is jumping a bit farther ahead in the comics than the Metal Virus, but I do find it telling that the IDW writers have unilaterally decided to effectively shelve Shadow until they get clearance to write him better. I don't think he's shown up since the issues directly following the Metal Virus arc, my last clear memory of him being at the White Park lodge.
Imo these 7 issues while being a fine read are a slog to get to for me especially 13 and 14 as there are barely any stakes as Sonic and friends fight Eggmans lackeys. 15 was a giant husk of nothing to me. 16 Was actually pretty good I really enjoyed seeing how Sonic counters the metal virus and it's a way that only he can. 17-19 though is a different story. It has the same problem of 1-4 and 5 and 6 when the plot synopsis repeats. we check up on friends, Sonic arrives, they have a dialogue exchange where one of sonic's friends call him a loser and that they should've locked up Dr. Tinker, Sonic has to go until the end of the issue, friend gets infected, Sonic is like "oh no!" then runs to the next city. Another thing I don't like about this arc is the fact that character deaths feel like were spinning the wheel on who dies so much and on top of the fact they're all going to come back makes it so that I stop caring. "Let's kill Chermy 75% of the fanbase doesn't like him anyway. and hey while were at it let's kill the chao and hey Shadow is 2nd most popular character it'll be shocking when we kill him off. the fanbase loves Tangle let's kill here off too!" That being said story starts clicking with me at issue 25 and overall I think the arc is pretty good I just don't think these 7 issues are the greatest which was worse 3 years ago as the comics came out monthly so you'd just have to hope the next one would be good.
i jave not finished the video, but i have stopped momentariley because I SHALL NOT ACCEPT ROUGH AND TUMBLE SLANDER (jk u can feel about them how you want but i love them and i want to express it)
Shadow is definitely showing his vegeta pride side often he shouldn’t have ran from the fight but ran to not get whole infected. Sega is literally killing his character. flynn definitely has good ideas for him too
I like the story but all the characters are mischaracterized the only character who isn’t mischaracterized is tails he’s okay but everyone is bad especially sonic
I’m not going go through every character but sonic is mischaracterized because he has a philosophy. In idw sonic says he won’t kill zavok even though he wants to, despite the fact that In the games he doesn’t care if he wants to do something he’ll do it it doesn’t matter. Sonics philosophy in idw is that he wants people to be able to have the freedom to do what they want to do but at the same time he thinks there are wrong choices, you can’t have both either you everyone to be free to do what they want or you think there are wrong choices
@@onequill I get you're complaints about Sonic, I don't think he's written perfectly either But my question was, hiw are all the other characters mischaracterized
I don’t believe there are mandates. If there were mandates then they would apply to every piece of sonic media not just the comics shadow doesn’t act like this in any of the games so I think it’s just Ian Flynn doesn’t know how to write the characters
i will never understand why even the gloves are infected by the metal virus as if they were made of organic matter like the rest of the body and how and why did super silver "suck" the virus away from all over the world only at the end... but, yes, this arc is fuckin brilliant and I loved that, except the deadly six, I hate them but at least they take a lot of beatings from everyone.
![Sonic the Hedgehog [IDW] Special 2022 | Guardians Comic Dub](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uYVic5mwAdc/mqdefault.jpg)
God I love videos like this, honestly gives a clear layout of both the stories and the effort that was used to make said stories.
If I recall correctly from Ian Flynns podcast, Shadow was always intended to be infected in that issue to raise the stakes and show that no one, even someone as powerful as Shadow, is immune to the threat of the virus. The execution however, was ruined by the rules and mandates SEGA has put on Shadow as surmised. Apparently there was even a draft that SEGA shot down where Shadow was supposed to remove his Inhibitor Rings and get infected because he was reckless with the boost from it and assumed that THIS is what would grant him immunity to the virus. But alas. We got the version of the issue we got, and it's subpar. Really hope they loosen the rules they have imposed on Shadow sometime soon...
Either direction was just not good
This is the type of “dark” story I want from the series. I want to feel the weight of the story and see how these characters overcome challenges. I want to the story to make me care. Forces didn’t do that at all. This story had me at the edge of my seat all the way through.
Flynn said the Shadow scene was going to have him try to burn off the infection by removing his limiters, but Sega didn't want to make that reference. Flynn later said in hindsight that a smarter move might have been to rewrite the scene entirely instead of salvaging the old one, but he was too pressed for time.
I have fell off the Sonic franchise for a decade, and it was this comic that got me back into the Sonic world.
This feels like if Totally Not Mark decided to take a break from shounen to review Sonic stories. It's rather interesting.
:)
This made my day, he’s one of my biggest inspirations so your words mean the world!
You know I was just thinking that after watching some of Totally not mark's videos.
Honestly I never used to like cream as I was never a fan of her in sonic x (or the games) but the IDW comics actually made me like her. She’s not one of my favorites but still.
I honestly love Rough & Tumble. They are simple by design and are supposed to be simple mooks to fill out the rogues gallery. They have great designs, fun personalities, and really great running gags + interactions with other characters, particularly in Bad Guys.
Trying to make them too interesting or giving them intricate motivations would kind of ruin their charm and make something needlessly complex. I respect your take but I just think they're great the way they are. Not everything needs to be fleshed out or complex.
Glad to see you talkin go about these fun comics and glad you enjoy them as well, great video
I really do hope sega gives Flynn and his team the chance to write for the games in the future, love your vids, hyped for the next one!
Cant wait till part 2!
I watched this arc through the adrenaline dub and I've absolutely loved the dark tone that arc went for watching these kids go through the events of this arc was amazing and I loved Starlines character which was fleshed out more over time.
Though I'd say I have issues with Shadow's characterization. "Cowards Run, I Win". Really? I know about Sega mandates but that was just edgy for the sake of it
Shadow will always have stupid moments like that due to the mandates. BUT he also had a LOT of good moments too. Like his fight with Sonic over what to do about Eggman. THAT is Shadow, and you completely understand his POV.
@@acemstudio I def belive there is some merit to this version of Shadow. It's just there are a lot of parts that doesn't work for him and it genuinly feels like writers try their hardest to make him work with the limitations.
@@ghosty2548 I really hope Sega understands at some point that the mandates are just hurting Shadow, not helping him look COOL and badass.
I mean, yeah. But at least we have the benefit of this being a misunderstanding. Shadow thought Sonic was saying. "Ooo, you should run, you can't fight these guys, unlike me"
Amd them, after the metal Virus, Shadow even beats himself up about it when he realises it
People are always quick to judge characterization as bad, the exact moment it stops being their familiar fanon and actually reflects a story they havent' heard before. Something that is always kept out of the US publication culture for being "unpopular", so it REMAINS something you need to reach out FOR, to actually LISTEN to foreign stories. Shadow is such a character, bult on Japanese archetypes that all these western viewers just chide as "vegeta-clone".
Shadow is following the ORIGINAL Japanese Green Ranger archetype, not the one revamped for the US Power Rangers audience. The one people only know as "anti-hero" with a heart of gold, something like Han Solo. What Shadow is, is GENUINELY DARK reflection of heroism, like Punished Snake, the symbol of losing the ultimate fight PERMANENTLY, and that's where his motivation comes from. He doesn't jsut naively get over it and "become good", he reflects on SONIC being the hero, and for that reason he weighs HEAVILY on Sonic as responsible for PROVING the value of heroism. Not share that burden, but doing the cleanup when heroism fails.
That's the anger in Shadow, he is the one Sonic fails the MOST, if he fails, because he wagered going against Shadow on heroism NEVER failing. If Sonic can't handle the responsibility, that's like breaking a PROMISE to Shadow, the promise to make harder measures unnecessary. But certain people, such as people who live on a lot of outsourced labor from Asia crating their iPhones so they don't HAVE to make those sacrifices and dirty their hands, meaning Americans, are pretty much completey blotted out from ever hearing this side of the story. So they just glitch out and reduce it to beign a vegeta-clone. YOU start with the Western mandates to purge this story from ANY fiction, while Superheroes remain just a popular glorification of "heroic" military sacrifice. Thats why this topic is so unfamiliar and uncomfortable to you. You would only EVER accept this character as an outright villain throwing a tantrum, like Zemo, and if Zemo DID move to he heroic side you would call him another vegeta-clone half-assing it, despite doing MORE heroism than the Zemo we have. The way Shadow DOES push his means of villainy into doing good things, the Punisher with enough moral character TO NOT BE the Punisher. He RELIES on Sonic in that, adn you chide it.
So, when is Part 2 coming out?
This arc is one of the best Sonic stories just ever. Though Shadow has some of his stupid mandated moments, he's at his best here in the comics in general since Sonic X and Sonic 06. His argument with Sonic over Eggman is quite gripping, and you understand him entirely. And for the first time, you question Sonic's benevolence.
A lot of people were mad that movie Sonic seemed to have no problem killing Eggman. But one has to remember, in Black Knight, Sonic had no problem with potentially having to kill King Arthur either. He said it himself. "Can't be the hero all the time." here, Sonic let his mercy win out. And it cost him dearly.
Unfortunately SEGA said the team dark aren’t friends now….apparently they are just a brand now….which sucks so much…..
Okay, this was a really good video. You broke down the different elemnts of what made this story great incredibly well!! This was really really enjoyable...
Id like to say though, in terms of character personalities I personally prefer to think of it as the writers refining what was there based on decisions the characters have been shown to make in the games,
Thank you so much!
This was a truly interesting Saga and your Review/Rundown/Breakdown of the Metal Virus Saga are both interesting and fascinating, i will look forward to Part 2.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
The use of the spider man ps4 theme in the beginning hit me in the feels
I hope you also do mini side stories of this arc because I really want to see your read on what Metal goes through int his arc without even a word. Original Rival getting this much charcterization without even a line is incredible to me. But this also applies to most of the characters. All of them feel like genuine people.
But I will say this for Shadow. I do think this is a wrong charactrization for him like everyone else. But I do see some merit on this version of Shadow. Obviously not the part where he for some reason "doesn't care about anyone" thing but more of the "he thinks he can handle everything" part. I do actually think that part can be applied to Shadow and used as a flaw he has. And it can be explored really deeply. So while I do think some parts of him is not good I do think there are some parts of him that is great to add to Shadow in general.
Rest of the arc is great either. Obviously you haven't covered the rest yet but this arc really makes me love Sonic's relationship with Eggman and Metal more and more. It's definitely one of my fav Sonic stories.
I hope you do more of these.
17:43: Well, Lion King and Muppet Treasure Island are kid's movies, and they showed characters die a permanent death. Heck, in the latter, Risso The Rat even says "He died?! And this is supposed to be a KID'S movie!" and "We... are... standing.... in a room with a DEAD GUY!!!😟!".
I like to think Rouge was grieving Shadow in quiet where no one could see so she could stay professional
Great Video Man!
Thank you Nick you solidified what I've wanted from sonic
Great review, though I just want to point out you might’ve skipped over the 2019 annual and the Tangle and Whisper miniseries, that annual introduces a new character who’ll become a bigger player in the coming story arcs and the Miniseries take place before this and is really good.
Honestly Omega just attacking a zombot shadow also feels out of character for him. Especially after 06 where he seemed hurt that he was the one to capture shadow in the future.
It really is a shame about Shadow. I don't really take issue with him addressing Sonic so aggressively, cause, yeah, to an extent, this could've been avoided. I get why Shadow would be frustrated. But him getting this cocky and not being careful enough just does not track with how he is. I really don't think he has that much of an ego. He knows he's hot shit, sure, but he at least knows what he is and isn't capable of. It's sad and frustrating and I hope Sega eventually wakes up and realizes we want the REAL Shadow back (whatever that means to you).
20:40 i *love* this line... :' _)_
When's part 2?
This is jumping a bit farther ahead in the comics than the Metal Virus, but I do find it telling that the IDW writers have unilaterally decided to effectively shelve Shadow until they get clearance to write him better.
I don't think he's shown up since the issues directly following the Metal Virus arc, my last clear memory of him being at the White Park lodge.
17:43 funny beacuse a character actually DIES in the idw comics later on
remember shadow as not able to get sick it caught him off gaurd
I love the metal virus saga of this could be turn into an video game or an addition for the Sonic Cinematic Universe oh man 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
Imo these 7 issues while being a fine read are a slog to get to for me especially 13 and 14 as there are barely any stakes as Sonic and friends fight Eggmans lackeys. 15 was a giant husk of nothing to me. 16 Was actually pretty good I really enjoyed seeing how Sonic counters the metal virus and it's a way that only he can. 17-19 though is a different story. It has the same problem of 1-4 and 5 and 6 when the plot synopsis repeats. we check up on friends, Sonic arrives, they have a dialogue exchange where one of sonic's friends call him a loser and that they should've locked up Dr. Tinker, Sonic has to go until the end of the issue, friend gets infected, Sonic is like "oh no!" then runs to the next city. Another thing I don't like about this arc is the fact that character deaths feel like were spinning the wheel on who dies so much and on top of the fact they're all going to come back makes it so that I stop caring. "Let's kill Chermy 75% of the fanbase doesn't like him anyway. and hey while were at it let's kill the chao and hey Shadow is 2nd most popular character it'll be shocking when we kill him off. the fanbase loves Tangle let's kill here off too!" That being said story starts clicking with me at issue 25 and overall I think the arc is pretty good I just don't think these 7 issues are the greatest which was worse 3 years ago as the comics came out monthly so you'd just have to hope the next one would be good.
Mmm, I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you said
@@leritykay8911 i respect your opinion
Sonic saying that he didn't know Shadow cared is supposed to be sarcasm.
YEEEE
The Metal Virus arc slaps harder than Will Smith at the Oscars.
First seconds were enough to spot a fake fan.
i jave not finished the video, but i have stopped momentariley because I SHALL NOT ACCEPT ROUGH AND TUMBLE SLANDER (jk u can feel about them how you want but i love them and i want to express it)
Nice!
Shadow is definitely showing his vegeta pride side often he shouldn’t have ran from the fight but ran to not get whole infected. Sega is literally killing his character. flynn definitely has good ideas for him too
I like the story but all the characters are mischaracterized the only character who isn’t mischaracterized is tails he’s okay but everyone is bad especially sonic
How are they mischaracterized exactly?
I’m not going go through every character but sonic is mischaracterized because he has a philosophy. In idw sonic says he won’t kill zavok even though he wants to, despite the fact that In the games he doesn’t care if he wants to do something he’ll do it it doesn’t matter. Sonics philosophy in idw is that he wants people to be able to have the freedom to do what they want to do but at the same time he thinks there are wrong choices, you can’t have both either you everyone to be free to do what they want or you think there are wrong choices
@@onequill I get you're complaints about Sonic, I don't think he's written perfectly either
But my question was, hiw are all the other characters mischaracterized
This is all Sega mandates fault. Not Ian Flynn
I don’t believe there are mandates. If there were mandates then they would apply to every piece of sonic media not just the comics shadow doesn’t act like this in any of the games so I think it’s just Ian Flynn doesn’t know how to write the characters
i will never understand why even the gloves are infected by the metal virus as if they were made of organic matter like the rest of the body and how and why did super silver "suck" the virus away from all over the world only at the end... but, yes, this arc is fuckin brilliant and I loved that, except the deadly six, I hate them but at least they take a lot of beatings from everyone.