For the fgo players, I find even more interesting that it is hinted that shirou may be the long descendant of the infamous black Smith muramasa who created the finest blades.
You can literally put EMIYA in any universe or timeline and have fun with him as a character. His ideals, his suffering, his progression is almost always fun to watch/read. I have been currently reading a fanfiction story called "Man Off The Moon" where EMIYA gets sent into the Mass Effect universe, and even as not the biggest Mass Effect fan, I've loved every minute because I find Archer such a compelling character. You should check it out if ur interested in Emiya, or Mass Effect at all.
You should mention that each Shirou has a different UBW in the next video. UBW Shirou: Clear sky symbolizing his ideal is still worth pursuing Archer: Cloudy because he regrets his path Alter: Cloudier than Archer's since he's more twisted Miyuverse Shirou: Snowy sky symbolizing he doesn't care about the world anymore
Also; For Shirou's UBW, has no gears in the clear blue sky, telling that he is yet to be machine For Archer's UBW, has a cloudy sky with gears spinning, telling that he has achieved a life of a machine full of regrets, yet, a small shine of sun can be seen, telling that he still has little hope and resolve that "he is not wrong" For Emiya Alter's ULW, the sky is dark and cloudy, but more than that, if the attention is paid, you can notice that the gears in the sky do not levitate since they are chained, telling that he is rotten to the core that he cannot be considired, or can consider himself, as even a machine, but just something "corrupted" For Miyuverse Shirou' UBW, a snowy night is created, symbolizing the oath he had made under the snow to save his sister, and his perspective towards the limitless swords as graves tells that he is fine with the loss he had as long as the one is saved. "There are times when only one can outweight all"
Also, for Miyuverse Shirou, a Snowy Day was also the day that Sakura died in front of him. (Nope, not counting her lancelot version because only dead soul was injected to a doll.)
@AniNews The paradox is fixed once you understand the 3 iterations of fate are different time loops. The first (The fate storyline) Is the first pass thought. It follows 4 rules. 1. The well of heros exists outside of time, so heros past present and future can be summoned. (This allows Archer to be summoned at all) 2. Using the Gem as her summoning tool was the Paradox/Window heroic spirit Emiya used to get into the war. (This is the catalyst to start a potential time paradox) 3. The grail itself is sentient, and knows all details of the servants it summons. It does not allow paradox. (This is a counter force the grail has to combat paradox) 4. Time loops in fate are not paradoxes if they are not infinite. (This allows Gaia and Co (all the celestials of the Nasu verse to make multiple attempts to salvage die situations) So in the fate time line when Archer is summoned, that is the original start point for the loop. This is why Archer in the first loop has trouble remembering his own past. The grail erased it to stop him causing a paradox. Its only when he is defeated by berserker with the utterance "And i thought i had thrown them all away." Where he recovers his memory and feels regrets (the things he thought he had thrown away. For this arc his destiny is undecided, so right up until his final moments, when the grail is sure that the timeline of shiro becoming a heroic spirit and the paradox is fixed it returns Archers memories to him. In this way Archer for the first arc represents the Idea of the hero Emiya, but doesn't have his will or motives. This leads to a Shiro who was more powerful in the second loop, Creating the "Unlimited Blade works" Arc. Because of repetition, the loop is now established there is no paradox. Archer is now already and forever in the well of heros. In this arc the archer we meet is the completetion of the story of the Shiro from the first loop. So it gets to have motive will and goals. This Archer is a fully realized version of Shiros Broken Idealism. He however, faced with his younger self, and seeing that Shiro gets a major power up just by fighting him give him hope that it will work out better this time. The next Shiro will be stronger and know his dark fate. He may never have to make the Guardians pact. Accepting this Fate arc Emiya hands the baton the UBW Emiya and sacrifices himself. This leads into the third arc, "heavens feel". Where the Archer we meet is the final version of the UBW Emiya. Its why he is a bit more chill and just not out to murder Shiro. In fact he activly assists Shiro. He is the version of Shiro future that accepts the weight of the world for the price of his soul. But heavens feel takes another path. In this story what happens is Shiro being mentored a little by Medusa comes the believe that Saving just one person, is more important that saving everyone. And so will inevitably, never make the decision to sacrifice himself as a guardian to save a handful of strangers. Because all of these loops happened, EMIYA is and will forever be in the soul well as a hero. But in the final loop his bargain with fate for power never happens. He does live on to become a legend but not an eternal self sacrificing one. That is why the Fate stay game/story only after you complete all 3 story arcs. Not because you finally find a way to vanquish the grail, but because you find a way to vanquish Emiyas Ideals and eternal suffering. OoF i wanted to explain this quickly but it turned into a short essay sorry. Sadly there is an Ideological and Philosophical aspect in the fate narrative. So its not easy to explain concisely
No in the first rout he is the idea of Emiya the heroic spirit, He has the skills ability and attitude but not the momries, because having memories he hasn't made yet would A.cause a paradox B. Allow him to kill shiro completing a paradox. He can only exist here because of the Gem and the fact the well of heros exists outside of time. As you need a catalyst to summon a servant normally it would not be possible to summon a future one but Rin/Shiro and the Gem create a unique exception. The Emiya in the second rout it the Shiro from the first route.:His ideals never having been changed. The Emiya in the third rout is the Shiro from the second loop :His ideas having been challenged, and his skills in life having been significantly powered up in life because of the grail war UBW arc. This Archer has accepted his fate and therefore less likely to try to stop himself. Because Heavens feel ends in a completly differant way and the Shiro from this one never becomes the left loathing archer who would ever kill himself. This ends the loop.
Ferrous Oxcide how in the heavens feel movie archer Emily's says something about setting aside his personal grudges to deal with the matter at hand then there's saber getting a clean hit on archer Emiya in both those routes so archer Emiya couldn't kill shirou without anyone noticing
“I don't mind losing to someone else. But I won't be beaten by myself!” “That's a cruel thing. I'm being made to look into an old mirror. There really was such a man once,wasn't there?” I really like this line of Shiro and Archer .......... Because I am Japanese, I can only write clumsy English texts, but still I remember my feelings against Shiro and Archer as I watched this video so let me tell you a little. Shiro said that "My dream is not wrong" and this remark seems to deny Archer seriously, but this was the word to save Archer more than anything. Because he wanted to believe that dream that he inherited from Kiritsugu more than anyone else. But the reality did not go well, he felt like death (trying to actually kill himself) and he denied himself. But Shiro said to him that "My dream is not wrong". Against himself who despaired because he had the same dream as pride in the same way. This is a denial of self denial. Far from denying Archer, Shiro admits and praises what Archer has done so far and the way he has done so far.
Your English is more eloquent then many native speakers. Also as per your comment: Archer never learned to love himself, he sacrificed himself for others and even had the will of Alaya control him like a puppet. Like Rin states: "I'll help him learn to love himself more, and you should do the same." This one statement breaks the shackles that bound Archer and he reverts to being Shiro once again. Of course this took the UBW timeline for that to happen, where a Shiro that still hoped existed. Also Rin (his old friend) was incredibly helpful as well.
I’m still a little confused. What made Archer not wanting to kill Shirou? What did he realise that allowed him to believe in his ideals again after his fight with Shirou?
Let me answer some comments in a Q&A format concerning the loop and the paradoxes Q: Are the EMIYAs summoned different in the three routes? A: NO! All EMIYAs that are summoned are the same EMIYA. The Emiya summoned is from another parallel world like where the Holy Grail War ended with a nearly similar ending in the Fate route except Saber wasn't saved so he became EMIYA in that world Q: Why were all three EMIYAs different in their goal. A: It was because of circumstances. In Fate, EMIYA was injured by Saber and only recovered until his fight with Berserker, In UBW he wasn't injured so he could plot to kill Shirou. In HF he was injured and the shadow appeared so he had to fulfill his contract and ended up helping Shirou for the sake of fulfilling the contract or by showing bias to Sakura. Q: Then what about the memories of EMIYA from different routes? A: He has no memories of different routes. I'll explain it later in detail (Find it later in "Q: If he was removed from timeline, how could he be summoned for the war?") Q:Then who was Rin's servant in the time Shirou became a counter guardian? A: It was still EMIYA and in this case his future self. As stated that Shiro became EMIYA in a universe nearly similar to the Fate route where EMIYA was injured by Saber and only recovered in the day that he fought Heracles. So he couldn't proceed with his plan and kill his past self from his own timeline. Thus shirou from this world will become EMIYA Q: What about the paradox from his own timeline? A: There is no paradox. For example: Let's say the world that Shirou became EMIYA was world X. In this world, the EMIYA that was summoned was his future self and his future self was unable and will forever be incapable of killing Shirou from world X. And when Shirou becomes a counter guardian and is summoned as a servant, he will be injured by Saber and killed by Heracles before he can fulfill his plan Q: What if EMIYA kills other shirou from different timeline, would that make his wish come true? A: NO! the world he became EMIYA was from world X. The shirou from world X would inevitably become EMIYA and that is unchangeable. If he kills other Shirou from a different timeline, let's say world B, the Shirou that becomes EMIYA is still the Shirou from world X. It doesn't change even if he kills Shirou from FATE, UBW, and HF. Q: Can you give another example? A: Let's say you are from world Y, and you go back in time to kill your grandfather before your father was born. Let's say that there are two possible outcomes. One is that you kill your grandfather and another outcome is that you are unable to kill your grandfather. The outcome that you were unable to kill your grandfather would lead to history being unchanged so you return to world Y wihtout any consequences. But what if you were able to kill him. In that case the world that you are going to is a different timeline let's say in timeline Z. In timeline Z your father was never born and you were never born. but you were still from timeline Y so you would still continue existing. so in the future of timeline Z, a version of you was never born but you still exist. Q: Wait then Archer is stuck as a counter guardian forever? A: YES!!! This was Rin''s point when she said that archer would never be saved. Q: Then why go through with killing Shirou? A: Best case scenario: (which won't happen) he will be released from the contract. Worst case: he would be able to to release a bit of anger by killing a stupid Shirou (He mentioned it in his conversation with Rin) Q: Then what about the holy grail, would that be able to cause a miracle A: Probably no. The grail is a lump of near infinite energy. It is nearly omnipotent, not omniscient. This means that you have near unlimited energy, but the method of using it is still up to you. You cannot fulfill wishes that you don't know how the process works. For example. Kiritsugu only has one idea of world peace, which was killing everyone. Or Obito which was trapping everyone in an illusion for eternity. So EMIYA would still need to find a way to open a portal to his own timeline and travel back to the past and kill himself before he became EMIYA. Q: What if he finds a way to travel back in past to his own timeline? A: It is highly improbable. He would need to have a means of acquiring and using Kaleidoscope to travel dimensions, one of the five Magic (True Magic) which is considered to be lost in the world and the pinnacle of magecraft which is only acquirable to those who have reached the root (Akashic Records/ the answer to the universe) and probably another one which is speculated to be time travel. Even if he did, He would be unable to kill himself because if he was, there would be no EMIYA. and even if he did, the EMIYA from the throne would still be there. Because once a hero ascends the throne, he would be removed from timeline and so that he would remain unaltered for all eternity. Q: If he was removed from timeline, how could he be summoned for the war? A: All servants (except for possibly a few exception like Saber) are only copies of their former selves. Heroes go to the throne after their death. The servants are only copies of the heroes' soul. For example you die, your soul goes to a laptop. Then when their is a grail war, the grail gets a USB storage drive where it copies your soul and that copy is what is sent to the war. So when a servant dies, his memories of the past war are not recorded to his soul in the throne.. Did you notice that Kirei did not interact with Saber even though she was Kiritsugu's servant in the past war? This was because Kirei thought Saber would have no recollection of him and talking to saber about the past war would be futile. (Also including the fact that it would be awkward as hell. Hahahah) Also note that this is why at the end Rin wanted Archer to keep on being her servant. If Archer disappears, the real Emiya in the throne would be unable to retain memories of this route. This is why she at least wanted this copy of Emiya to be with her and save him. Q: But servants in FGO retain memories. A: I see a few possibilities, first is that the servants that are summoned in FGO are not direct copies from the throne and are probably altered copies of the soul where are given memories of the past wars. In this case, the soul in the throne would still be unaltered thus proving my point in the previous question. Another one is that it is from a universe that allows altering the soul in the throne so in this case, it would not apply in this universe. Q: How was Saber able to retain her memories from Fate/Zero A: Saber is still not dead. If you watched or read Fate Zero, Saber was summoned in the 4th war right after her battle in Camelot. And in Fate/Stay Night, she was summoned as she is expecting Bedivere to return her sword to the Lake. Q: how can she be summoned if she is still alive? A: She is summoned as a pseudo servant and only her consciousness vanish. This result to her being unable to dematerialize and go to spirit form like other servants.
My god bro you answered so many fucking questions I’ve had about this series but there’s still so much more I’d like to know. you seem like a really fountain of Fate Lore thanks for the help
All Archer had to do, instead of killing Shirou, was just simply tell him: “Hey, don’t make a deal with a globe-floating-Arya-entity, it’s not going to go well. Also, there will come a time when you will have to save 100 people, do this stuff in this order so you can save them and not make the deal. And whatever you do, don’t trust these people in this Great War that will eventually happen. Don’t trust anyone. There! I just saved my past self!”
Ye that won't happen. Archer took millennia to realize this mistake. There is no doubt that the great shirou will make the deal to save lives. Because he is still in the heat of the moment. And considering shirou character he'll take the deal. If your future self took a millennia to understand the mistake, then what's the possibility of the fresh one to realize it.
So the Shirou at the end of the anime, having just defeated gilgamesh with borrowed mana and his first use of UBW, doesn't eventually become the Archer he had fought so hard to reject? That's actually a relief, because I had figured it was a tragic loop where archer would never stop shirou and shirou would always become the archer that fails to stop it.
Nasu confirmed that the possibility of shirou become archer is close to Zero. Fate Shirou enter avalon and be with Saber UBW shirou found his resolve. HF shirou throw his ideal away like garbage so him becoming archer is zero.
The ending of the UBW anime is actually Archer acknowledging that while he still has regrets he acknowledges that his dream still has merit, which is shown with how he acts more mellow in Grand Order.
Shirou doesn't become archer because he already gained all the power he would ever need since he has ubw early,so he doesn't become a counter guardian since he's got the power he needed to save everyone I'd say ubw shirou probably married rin and had a much better life of actual success but ashtar canonically has teenage rins body so I don't know
"I am the Bone of my Sword Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood. I have created over a Thousand Blades, Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life. Have withstood Pain to create many Weapons Yet those Hands will never hold Anything. So, as I Pray-- Unlimited Blade Works"
I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to death nor known to life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet those hands will never hold anything So as I pray UNLIMITED BLADEWORKS
I don't know why he doesn't. In all popularity polls, Emiya archer ranks as the most voted male. But we get Fate content about literally all random piece of shit concepts but not something as interesting as Emiya's adventures.
I would love to see an anime about Archer in his counter guardian years. Or maybe his life of going back to being a counter guardian after he leaves Rin.
I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life. Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.
Joecool Eru are you talking about it being cancelled because it is scheduled to come out this month or next month. Watch their most recent video if you haven’t.
Emiya Alter, while leaving out major spoilers, boils down to Emiya being corrupted by an outside source and the essence of his being (his warped values as a hero of justice) being broken. They are still there, but they are twisted further beyond Emiya's values. His appearance is both the more intense usage of mana and a reference to "Kintsugi," the Japanese art of repairing pottery with gold. The idea is that something can be broken and still have value, and that the breaks do not take away from its uniqueness but contribute to it.
So this is my interpretation of the Loop Emiya is stuck in. Rin will always summon Archer Emiya due to the pendant being used as the catalyst during the summon. In fact I believe it was stated that the catalyst was the reason why Emiya was summoned at all. In the original Fate Route of the series, you can see that there’s the chance that Emiya (Archer) and Shirou don’t interact too much and Shirou has no idea who Archer is. Nasu has stated that the Fate Route is the closest we will ever see of Emiya’s Holy Grail War, but even then it’s not exact. We can assume that something similar happened in Emiya’s own War and that he never really communicated with Archer to know who he is. This Shirou never learns his Fate and presses forward to become a Hero of Justice
Levi Kazama there isn’t a way for Emiya to be stuck in a time loop. Once he became a Counter Guardian his existence was recorded outside of Time and Space, much like servants who are recorded in the Throne of Heroes. No matter what happens, or what ending Shirou comes to, there will always be a Shirou Emiya that is a counter guardian in the Fate universe. If Archer did manage to kill his past self, he would’ve still existed because he exists outside of time and space. His only way out is a futile endeavor that adds more to his own tragedy
Levi Kazama At the start of every Holy Grail War (until Archer vs Saber in the prologue) Archer is facing a version of Shirou that will become him and Shirou is facing the end of his ideal but doesn’t know it. From Archer vs Saber, there are a million other ways that the 5th HGW can go. If for some reason Shirou is in the route that he becomes Archer, then that means that Archer dies before him and Shirou ever fall into conflict, eliminating any chance of a time loop. Sure Archer will be sent to a 5th Holy Grail War, but that doesn’t mean that will always be THE 5th War. If it was a timeloop, then Shirou Emiya would be stuck in a never ending cycle of being summoned to the exact same War with the exact same outcome, but Fate/SN Fate; Fate/SN UBW; and Fate/SN HF all prove that that isn’t the case. Archer Shirou isn’t in a timeloop, he merely gets to see the near infinite possibilities of the 5th war. And he will almost never remember any of them. Fate/GO has shown that Archer only really remembers the end of UBW. He notes that he still can’t stand his past self, but he does accept his role in the universe and does his best to keep his smile while working
The thing Nasu said about Archer war was that the conditions at the start of the war were pretty much the same as Fate and that he didn't manage to save saber, but that means the war could have been wildly diferent just that now the "Fate route is the closest to Archer war" is the new "Archer war was Illya route"
What is even the problem with summoning EMIYA into his original timeline anyway? From what i understand there is one Throne of Heroes in the Multiverse outside of timelines and spirits in it are free from such cause-effect chains. Pendant is a catalyst because EMIYA is in the Throne already from any timeline's perspective and always will be -> Rin summons EMIYA -> saves Shirou leaving the pendant with him -> Holly Grail War -> Shirou lives and dies -> becomes a Guardian -> cleans up endless messes and participates in some more variations of HGW -> is summoned into his first War before he is summoned into UBW route so he doesn't give a fuck anymore but is not fed up enough yet to kill Shirou.
Isn’t it just that heroic spirit emiya is already in the throne of heroes and will remain even if current shiro doesn’t become a counter guardian and so basically archer shiro is just from a different timeline and in his timeline by whatever means the grail war goes on in a similar way to how it does in any given route
emiya alter appearance its because his body it's by far more damage than his normal self he described himself has a living corpse both mentally and physically his alter is basicaly a nother posibility of what emiya shiro can become his alter self took a total different path , emiya alter main difference in his path was 1 single target that change he in a brutal way, he was sended to kill a leader of a cult that would cause enormous damage to the the world It's self, but when he come to the place of the woman that led to the cult, and he went to try the kill she, innocent people protect her and he was forced to kill them all and when he tried to kill the woman that he's profile describe her has "a woman that has the love of a holy mother" she talk with he and she break he and his ideals, after he kill the woman he start of not caring about the method or the casualties that could provoke he holy cares about the objetive if you asked , the woman is kiara
Not really the darken skin is to show how far he broken from even his CG self the gold lines on his body are references to Kintsugi a type of pottery were you put a broken piece back together with gold it has the same kind of lines if you look it up, as you ascend him higher in his accensions he starts to forget who he was showing that he slowly falling apart he looks weird but I really like his theme
Actually Nasu explained who Archer is. Exactly. Heroic Spirit/Counter Guardian EMIYA is a Shirou Emiya who lived a route similar to Fate, but wasn't able to make Arturia change her idea about erasing herself and her reign period from history. She didn't use the Grail, being a corrupted power, but she decided to search for something else. Emiya was devasted by this and when the time was right (the anime implies that the incident was a nuclear energy source almost gone BOOM) he traded his afterlife for power. He never regretted It, but being a HS/CG is difficult, and he doesn't remember all of his life. His desire to change isn't ignored during UBW because of fluff, but because by "fighting" Shirou he just remembered those feelings, and remembered who he was. Also, there is no timeloops (how people even in the comments think of that? There is no reason for It). There are various, all Canon, universes. EMIYA isn't in no loop, since he doesn't perceive time. The real unclear point is in how much Archer remembers of the wars. As said, he doesn't remember the details of his life (EMIYA remembers fighting the 5th HGW, but probably he didn't remember Lancer stabbing him, for example), and in a similar way he remember only vague things from his missions around time and space. Yet, he remembers them. He is a CG, not a normal HS. Therefore EMIYA probably has somewhere the memories collected during the UBW events.
So,in the first fate stay night arc,another comment mentioned that the grail took his memory of his failed ideals to prevent time paradox.but u saying that he forgot his memories as being a counter guardian isn't easy??
Being a Counter Guardian erased part of his memory. But his wish will shine eternal, he will keep saving humans because he find happiness in it. And this wasn't inherited from Kiritsugu, this is the true nature of emiya shiro, in the end he's still believing in his ideals.
He regains some of his memories of various summons through his reality marble, which is separated from the Throne of Heroes, if I'm not mistaken. This is why he remembers countless battles, becoming so jaded in the process. After just dying, he wouldn't have been the cynical Archer of the 5th HGW, but he was summoned time and time again to clean up the mess, retaining some of these memories in his reality marble. EMIYA didn't grow old enough and didn't accomplish enough in life to get where he was, but he preserved his memories from various summons, leading to his current self.
The outside time concept its repeated a lot when talking about Archer and the throne of heroes in general but it seems a lot of people don't really get it, outside of time means timelines don't matter and things can happen simultanously without a before or after, there is no timeline before Archer became a counterguardian because the moment he is a counterguardian he already exists in past, present and future, and the paradoxes are avoided with the mere nature of the setting if you change something a new timeline Is born but your timeline doesn't stop existing, and Archer himself says so that it doesn't matters if he kills Shirou he will still exist, and he is aiming to cause the paradox anyway with the hope that the world will go crazy and erase his existence of all realities or something but he knows thats not likely at all , he is just frustrated
Its really sad. Because kiritsugu basically learned the lesson shirou does after becoming a guardian, during fate zero. That being a hero is akin to being a murderer. That evil and good must exist in balance. But that being the force that balances it .will always be deemed evil in itself. Shirou's discovery of this is almost a fanatic resolve to continue forward until he cannot take it anymore. Only to go back and warn himself, and be faced with that same, unwavering fanaticism.
This comment here is a great example of why present me is always ready to punch past me in the gut if I ever fall backwards in time. What even the fuck was 4 years ago me saying? Little shit needs to get punched is what he needs lol
According to the story, servants has Noble Phantasms and weaknesses... Hero Epic spirit Emiya which is Archer has the Reality Marble and you know what was his weakness... Throwing his own ideals and regretting of becoming the hero of Justice.. That's why he was defeated by Shirou.. There is truly a great power of those who believe rather those who wouldn't..
Rin's Archer in Emiya's original timeline was actually him, the term is called Bootstrap paradox, in wich an object or person in the future travels in time to "watch or interact" with the beginning of something, only to realize that said object or subject came from the future as well, turning it into a loop. Emiya's chance to kill himself was wasted in the first route, because his memories are actually messed up for a bad summoning (in this part I've always theorized that it was Alaya's doing as a keepsafe). Just as he is about to die against Berserker he starts remembering everything but understands that his chance is wasted.
That is explained in the video, to create a Paradox big enough to erase his own existence, because after having to kill so many people for the sake of "Saving humanity", he understood that his ideals were wrong. Emiya has gonne through hell, as his dream was to save everyone, but Alaya's contract binds him to kill everyone near a catastrophe to save humanity as a whole, even innocent people.
- That's Hell you're walking into. - This is what you forgot. I admit that at first it was just admiration. But at the heart of it all was a wish. The wish for this Hell to be undone. The unfulfilled wish of a man who only wanted to help others, but who lost everything in the end. - Even if that life will be that of a machine? - Yeah. Even if tha life is dripping with hypocrisy. I'll keep striving to be a champion of Justice.
Rin's servant in "pre-alaya shirou" timeline is still EMIYA. It's the concept of the throne of heroes being able to draw from the future. So EMIYA already "existed" in the future during the first instance of the holy grail war in the timeline.
When it comes to Emiya Alter's appearance from FGO, it's subtly stated that someone (who is a big spoiler for Fate/Extra CCC) had a hand indirectly orchestrating his corruption into an Alter version, but even then he still is mostly Emiya (or Nameless since it's the Extra version of Emiya) by structure. It's just that his personality is basically cold towards everyone and even to himself, "while having no ideals or ideology in order to achieve his goals by cruel means like merciless slaughter"*. (*this comes from the Type-Moon Wiki for him, just paraphrased.)
Emiya Alter's form is actually rather creative and symbolic when you look in-between the lines. If you look at his skin tone (before he got an OxiClean makeover, and when you look past the "Detroit" aesthetic), it has some clever symbolic meaning to it. Take a look at one of the lines in Emiya's Noble Phantasm's incantation "Steel is my body, Fire is my blood". In a sense, Emiya's body and his ability to create weapons basically makes him into a glorified forgery. It would make sense for Emiya Alter's form to be charred, burned even. It's as if now his magecraft actually scorches his skin, whereas Counter Guardian Emiya's skin is only tanned and Shirou's is unblemished. Eh, I don't know, maybe I'm just trying to defend the old Emiya Alter's form from being offensive
AniNews maybe, just maybe, in an alternate timeline, Rin summons Lancer (because in UBW, lancer dies and actually told Rin that he would be happier with Rin being his master) and that Shirou fought Rin without having to know or any contact with each other. That way, in the end, Shirou actually was alone the whole time throughout the 4th holy grail war. And the the question comes up, what about Kotomine's servant? Well, actually anything can happen at that period. He could have summoned the true assassin, in which case, could appear from the body of Kojiro Sasaki. Then everything else goes according to the story, just that Shirou got no help from Rin, and maybe had teamed up with Illya. A lot of branches can happen in the Fate Stay Night event and frankly speaking, I could talk on and on about diffrent timelines where Rin doesnt summon EMIYA, but I guess it comes up to anyone's imagination. In the end, Fate is just something that we have not knowledge of and know nothing of its power. That is what make this series a really interesting one no less.
There's even more material to go over from the light novels too. The anime doesn't make this super clear, but he has what's called "survivor's guilt" as a result of being the only survivor of the tragedy that was the result of the previous holy grail war. This survivor's guilt is coped with by the dream of becoming a hero of justice. He himself doesn't believe he was worthy of being saved, so he resolved himself to become the ultimate savior of others. He puts himself dead last on the list of priorities, to the point of helping even people like Shinji. Thanks to his fight with EMIYA, he is able to steel himself as he walks into hell, fully accepting that while i"saving everyone" is contradictory, it "doesnt matter" because the ideal itself is not wrong. It seems overly idealistic, but It's actually a really good message, because like in real life, it's important to act positively in spite of the negative, because reacting negatively will only yield negative results. He is able to "walk into hell" now because he witnessed the "salvation" that can still be found there. It's basically the most edgelord argument in favor of positive thinking as you can get.
i remember when played the game at end of the unlimited blade works (IN THE GAME NOT THE ANIME) archer asks tohsaka take care of shirou so that he wil not became a heroic spirit so long history short tohsaka was going to marry shirou and make him happy as a human and a magus that would work just fine be cause in this time line tohsaka loved shirou.
Perhaps the original timeline was Heaven's Feel in which Shirou goes down the "mind of steel" route. Rin would have likely summoned a saber, leaving Shirou with an archer. Things happen differently enough that he decides to kill Sakura when offered the opportunity by Kotomine.
From what I understand, though my knowledge might be incorrect: -in the stay night route, shirou never learns about archer's identity, remains ignorant of his fate, and eventually becomes archer; -due to the mechanics of the throne, each route gets a different "copy" of the "original" archer emiya, wich end up in differnet circunstances; -in the SN route, due to being excessively close to his "source", the resulting paradox leaves archer without memories, never recovered thorough the war. -In the UBW route, due to a higher variation, archer does eventually recover his memories, then elaborates his plan to kill shirou; after dissapearing, his existence moves on to FSN's "final ending". -In UBW route, shirou has learned enough to challenge his own ideals of justice and argably no longer will become archer emiya, though it's well within possibility that he would become a different form of heroic spirit(possibly Alter?). -in HF route, it's such a different timeline that archer quickly recovers from his memory loss, but precisely because of that, he can recognize the massive changes to the timeline as a potentially prioritary threat, so he doesn't act on the suicide plan.
In heavens feel archer emiya does realize that the outcome of this grail will not lead to his result he even states that after there encounter with the Angra mainyu connected shadow of sakura. And basically that does happens became that route either ends as shirou sacrificing himself or sacrificing others for the sake of sakura and follows the ideal kiritsigu had now there is another bad ending in which shirou lets sakura die for no sacrifices but then illya let him realize the sadness and despair he felt basically he was broken and after realizing it Im sure that shirou regret to sacrifice sakura for sake of humanity and doesn't become a CG at the first place
The Emiya Alter appearance is him basically overusing his power so much that his skin become charcoal. Like how Emiya get tanned by working at a forge for example but this Emiya burned his skin up while working the forge. Why he is golden is that it him breaking himself as a person, he can barely remember things from 5 minutes ago as they seem like a dream so he is 100% broken but the golden cracks are meant to represent like a vase where you fix it with gold as the imperfections make it better but in Emiya case it.. him ruining his mind. There is controversy over this Emiya skin over the "What I thought he would look like if he went to prison" a better translation is "After drawing him it looked like he came from prison" Handcuffs, guns and the hairstyle you get it. So in a short man terms, broken man burned himself and only is held together by golden scars.
The Multiverse can explain a lot of shenanigans. In stories like this once I know there's a Multiverse I don't have to overthink it. Well spoken video. Stay the course.
Thongs get interesting when you eventually realize that archer must have fought in the trojan war if his ability to call rho aias is anything to go by.
Fantastic video! So about your question; from what I can tell, EMIYA (Archer) was still Rin's servant in EMIYA's timeline of the Fate events. It's assumed that it would have been similar to the Fate route, however a timeline where Shirou doesn't save Saber or Illya. Rin's Servant in any version of the 5th Grail War will always be EMIYA because of her pendant. This is because the Heroic Spirit EMIYA held onto her pendant until his death because she saved him in his timeline (as explained in the video).
yap and if the fate route is the closest we will ever get to the emiya route that means that archer was taken out halfway through it and wasnt really much present when he was there which means shirou dint really interact with him or he had a chance to kill him
Ok there’s no way I’m the only one that feels like the ending of the Unlimited Blade Works is unfinished, I honestly wanted to see Shirou and Rin be together and see how them being at the Clocktower will be. If there is more to it please inform me
With all he's been through, I won't be surprised if he has a mental breakdown and goes all out and berserk-y. Not corrupted by outside force like Emiya Alter but rather an intrinsic change.
Gotta love how the MC is basically the degraded version, but ultimately better version of the King of Heroes In a world of heroes and legends, one of the bests is a hand me down of the greatest hero Also imagine if OG Archer route's Archer is Shirou but it's not a counter guardian And Shirou(Archer) didn't realize that Shirou will go down into the CG route if he didn't have someone to strive for
Just to be clear, FSN Archer is not "Fate Shirou". I feel like a lot of people make that false confusion because of how similar they might seem. Fate Shirou might have followed a similar path, but his goal was different(thanks to Arturia) and that is why his mindset allowed him to transcend Archer's cynicism and despair upon revealing the truth of the emptiness of the ideal of justice.
Shirou Ikonoya Nasu's interview regarding Archer specifically stated that while the beginning portion of his Grail War was similar to Fate's, the rest wasn't. While Archer's timeline shares some similarity to that of Fate's, they should be considered distinct routes, especially for thematic reasons.
Your premise that Shirou doesn't become archer because of Arturia is false, Shirou was devistated that he wasn't able to end up with Arturia and he wasn't able to help her achieve her wish, his entire future is based on that one event , Shirou became Archer, because of Arturia, not the other way around.
@@husamstarxin4626 Archer became such a regretful individual because he was unable to save Arturia's heart, and they were unable to understand each other and so Shirou himself had no real goal in life beyond what he started with. Fate Shirou did not fall for Archer's mistake, because he was able to save Arturia's heart, and they were able to understand each other. That is why i said Arturia gave him a goal. They saved each other in effect. Fate Shirou diverted from Archer in that he didn't want to become a hero to fill his own emptiness using his promise with Kiritsugu as an excuse(which would bring him no respite as Archer shows). He became a hero of justice because that was what tied him and Arturia together, he was running after her when following that path, rather than the ideal of justice itself and the assumption that it was an end goal.
My head cannon is that in FGO he works through these issues and is more at peace with himself. At the very least he is happier serving to a purpose closer to his ideal
Rin's servant in the other timeline was also likely heroic Emiya too, since Archer is a heroic spirit, time does not affect him. Which means he could be summoned into alternative timelines. Other people also think that heroic Emiya was the Shirou from Fate route.
ballman earny I only see them doing it in the far far future if they do it at all, right now is intentionally as vague as posible and helps with the mistery surronding Archer besides they probably don't care about it
6:10 Yeah, that s the thing that will always bother me but maybe there was no archer because gilgamech was already here and maybe bazette was still alive too instead of being killed off screen. As for his alter, its shirou following the path of kiritsugu in killing everything that threat the worl without a care. Its basically what if shirou was like kiritsugu. There s more happening to him but he started as an alter for the reason i mentionned.
The ways he comes to an end in the 3 routes also show different part of his story. The first route Fate he is severely hurt in the first Saber encounter meaning he was weakened. He later sacrifices him self to buy Saber,Rin, and Shirou to escape Hercules. Fulfilling his role as a “servant.” The second route UBW is where he gets the chance to act on his plan as he is not weakened by Sabers initial blow as it never happens. He then goes on the Fight him self. In order to crush his past self. Morally and Physically. Hopping that by breaking him the paradox is big enough to erase his existence as a CG. In this route he fulfilled his “Himself” and realized that he was not wrong. (Side not I don’t believe he had to save people to become engraved in the throne I think once he made the contract his name was automatically written to it I could be wrong tho.) In Heavens Feel. He is consumed by the Darkness while buying time for shirou to escape. And gives his arm to him as a replacement.He chose to fulfill his role as a “counter guardian.” But the wired thing is how all three of these time lines take place at the same time. Relatively speaking. Since the nasuverse runs on a modified world line theory. I can go on but I’m probably babbling at this point. If you want to know more I can help.
Good apreciations and you are right he gets recorded in the throne in exchange of his soul, and just to note he is not consumed by the Shadow just heavilly injured then gives his arm because he was going to die
I don't remember where i read it, but the authors said that the timeline where/when Shirou became Archer is similar to the Fate timeline, but at the end he "didn't save saber's heart", so they both failed to make each others a little less obsessed with their ideals; in that timeline Rin's servant may have been Shirou anyway, since even a future has its own future. They also said thet the protagonis' fates are not set in stone after the end of the routes, and in neither of them Shirou is totally prevented to become Archer (even if the probabilities are minimal), so actually there can be many different Archers. Also, in one of the HF bad endings, the ones Shirou chooses to kill Sakura to save her potential victims and then he won the Grail, "finally becoming a hero o justice", is probably an ending after which Shirou becomes Archer
Little correction: He didn't enter the Throne of Heroes through fame. It was pretty much just automatic either after he died or when he made the contract, both due to Alaya. It's said Alaya is an "unorthodox" method to get into the Throne of Heroes.
it's like this, Heroic Emiya is Emiya Shirou from an alternate timeline, though Shirou's timeline was altered because of Heroic Emiya's intervention, so the timeline would be the same if Heroic Emiya didn't interfere, so the Archer from Heroic Emiya's timeline was also Heroic Emiya himself but the Heroic Emiya from that timeline didn't interfere and for some reasons never put his plan in action, just like in Fate route where Archer was indeed wanted to kill Shirou but never actually did it.
I'm super sad to hear about this story yet I enjoyed it. Its also an epic moment when they say he is a servant from the future and that's why he is a big unknown to the present servants I can see why but dam he just wanted out and done...
Shirou's story saddens me so deeply, the fact that no matter which Shirou we're talking about (Since it's been established that at different points in time there are Shirou exists simultaneously, just like every other character) he will still always die by the hands of those he fought to save tears me apart. That being said, I wouldn't change a single thing about his story, because as sad as it makes me that no matter which Shirou we're talking about, we know he'll never get his happy ending with Rin, I would be pissed if Shirou abandoned his ideals that he fought so hard to protect. Damn, this series has hurt me badly, in a good way though, I've never felt so conflicted about an anime ending ever.
I’m still a little confused. What made Archer not wanting to kill Shirou? What did he realise that allowed him to believe in his ideals again after his fight with Shirou?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in Fate Extella that the various routes that diverge from a choice are all possibilities that stem from the Root. Even the tiniest of choices cause a split in the timeline. Possibilities that come to a deadlock are halted and destroyed, as sustaining a computer running infinite possibilities is impossible. Outside elements come into play to ensure the complete and utter annihilation of a timeline. The Throne of Heroes is essentially a concept outside of time and space, so they're not affected by this. I think Archer is one of those possibilities. I'm not too sure if his plan in FSN might have worked, because even if he did kill Shirou in that timeline, it still wouldn't remove him from the Throne or from being Alaya's toy. If the Throne is outside time-space, all the good Archer would have done was to take one possibility's Shirou from becoming a Counter Force, yet Archer would never get the exit ticket he needs to get out of the Throne. So, to be specific on which Shirou is Archer, you really can't narrow it down, since there are an infinite number of choices that came in between the end of FSN and his contact with Alaya.
Archer is from the the fate route where he failed to make saber change her wish, and in the original fate route shirou ended up looking alot like archer
Most of the people here are too fixed on their linear idea of time, they think that Shirou became a guardian in the future, and went back in time to save the world/ enter the holy grail war. This is completely wrong!!! When the world or Fate decided that Shirou would became a Guardian, it was set in stone/ the fabric of space as a concept. So long before Shirou was already born, his hero self was already massacring humanity. So the idea of Shirou being summoned "before" he became a guardian is already faulty. Which means that in the route where Shirou becomes Archer, was just one of infinite many routes, and of course Rin always summoned Archer, if she didnt, this loop would never have happened.
Well different concepts of time exist. Many worlds interpretation, quantum universes, parallel timelines. Fate sits between the many worlds interpretation and quantum universes. The routes are timelines that could be treated as different worlds. Grand/Order is a perfect example of this, where the heroes from that world travel to many of the routes - UBW, Fate, Heaven's Feel, Encore, Apocrypha etc. to halt the coming apocalypse.
No it is what makes sense. At least to me. Let's say I make a movie and I change the ending at the last second and release it. People will remember it as that ending. The characters will act as that ending was always there. The movie itself will remember it as the only ending. But, that does not mean the old ending never existed. Similarly, just because the timeline of Fate Stay/Night was rewritten doesn't mean it never existed. The internal reality may perceive it as something that was always there. But an external being looking into the reality will see a higher 'history of changes' timeline unaffected by the changes. Sounds convoluted but in practice it is this; Blank - Movie 1st Ending - Movie Final Ending Blank - Holy Grail War with different archer with Shirou who becomes Archer - Holy Grail War with Archer and Shirou who becomes Archer. Also, it's in the word. Rewritten. As in wrote again. Meaning it was before at least written once.
Hey, what's anime that? I mean, I know, that is Nasuverse, but I didn't remember the one, where Alaya is shown. In what series you can see the moment, when Shirou sell his soul? Like in 2:59
His Alter form is probably the same thing, just at a more extreme/ violent scale. Maybe the first loop Emiya realized that no matter what he did, he could not change the past in his favour exactly as he wanted it. So he went on a rampage using more and more magic. Alternatively(HA!), it’s just Emiya Summoned from a much later point in time in a timeline where he just kept fighting.
For your question, Rin has ALWAYS have the potential to summon EMIYA, as she didn't really have a catalyst to summon a Servant, the very reason why she thought her Pendant can be a catalyst. But during the Fate route, Shirou didn't even have that much moments of speaking with EMIYA Archer, suggesting that they're not always at quarrelling terms, even though they kinda hate each other's guts. And Kinoko Nasu stated that the possibility of Shirou becoming UBW's EMIYA is actually close to zero. It would suggest that EMIYA will be always Rin's Servant, and Shirou will always be a Counter Guardian in almost all timelines, but there's only a very slim chance that it would be the disillusioned/betrayed Shirou getting the chance to enact his plans (there are 3 routes anyway, Fate Stay Knight, UBW and Heaven's Feel with varying degrees of Shirou's interaction with Shirou) What I can theorize is since being a Counter Guardian means being out of the rules of space and time, EMIYA just was repeatedly summoned into the Grail War until he arrives at the UBW timeline, and realizing later it was futile. He even sees himself before he became dissillusioned (the scene where he helps kids in a camp), realizing that he knows he can't succeed on killing Shirou, and he hates it.
Deen's anime wasn't bad just mediocre. The animation was subpar and bland, and it mixed events from different routes that didn't belong in saber's route. Only thing going for it really is the soundtrack which is phenomenal and that the art style is more faithful to the VN than ufotable. I still prefer ufotable despite their creative liberties with the art style because it gives everyone more detail and makes sense with the better animation.
Emiya Archer is a Counter Guardian and he's the first one with his Foster Father as Assassin Emiya, an Alter ver. of Emiya Archer who uses guns along with how messed up that Emiya was that end up as an Alter, and our recent Counter Guardian: Okita Souji Alter.
well at the end of UBW ep 25, Shirou is likely taking the path of Archer to become a hero of justice, he is wearing a cape and carrying on fulfilling his ideal. I may say he will become Archer eventually even though he already knew what would happen. The loop is true and that keeps going on. In heaven's feel, there is no loop, he changes his mind, so it's up to Shirou and Archer themself and their ideal to whether or not begining an infinite loop.
Wish they make an anime of Hero Spirit lores. Im so curious of his encounters to the Heroes which he copied every single one of their weapon. He also mentioned Hector. etc. Heck time traveling Counter Guardian. I wanna see a series where counter Guardians story
![Don't SLEEP On EMIYA [Fate/Stay Night/FSN]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PtuclbStRRE/mqdefault.jpg)
Shirou: Hey! Nobody says my dream is stupid except me!
Archer: YOUR DREAM IS STUPID!
I think you’re a good person.
I mean, he didn't break the rule though.
Would batman kill hitler?
"You know what's happening here? We're sailing a friendship... the USS GetALong!"
IIIII WAAAANT THAAAAAAT
I love how Shirou’s Origin is Sword. There’s this saying. “Justice is a double-edged sword.”
no thats an axe aka skull cutter
His origin is only sword because of avalon
For the fgo players, I find even more interesting that it is hinted that shirou may be the long descendant of the infamous black Smith muramasa who created the finest blades.
@@sansblueye3876 no, Avalon changed his element to sword. His origin was sword from the start
@@inary682 does that mean the fire did nothing to his former origin? Or his origin from birth is sword?
Faker, Hero of balance, Wrought Iron Hero, Hero of justice but MOST importantly a COUNTER TO GILGAMESH.
Ken Neth saber's favourite defender against assholes
No, Gilgamesh was his own demise
Hello, me.
Ken Neth you’re so right
Nah, he was just too arrogant. The only counter for Gilgamesh is probably enkindu... both the friend and the chain.
Archer EMIYA deserves his own spin-off series. He's a popular character so I'm certain the demand for it is there.
I mean it won;t be far fetch Emiya is the protag after all
You can literally put EMIYA in any universe or timeline and have fun with him as a character. His ideals, his suffering, his progression is almost always fun to watch/read.
I have been currently reading a fanfiction story called "Man Off The Moon" where EMIYA gets sent into the Mass Effect universe, and even as not the biggest Mass Effect fan, I've loved every minute because I find Archer such a compelling character. You should check it out if ur interested in Emiya, or Mass Effect at all.
@@jamesomara3361 Cool
You should mention that each Shirou has a different UBW in the next video.
UBW Shirou: Clear sky symbolizing his ideal is still worth pursuing
Archer: Cloudy because he regrets his path
Alter: Cloudier than Archer's since he's more twisted
Miyuverse Shirou: Snowy sky symbolizing he doesn't care about the world anymore
UP Vote This..ohh this is not reddit.
Also;
For Shirou's UBW, has no gears in the clear blue sky, telling that he is yet to be machine
For Archer's UBW, has a cloudy sky with gears spinning, telling that he has achieved a life of a machine full of regrets, yet, a small shine of sun can be seen, telling that he still has little hope and resolve that "he is not wrong"
For Emiya Alter's ULW, the sky is dark and cloudy, but more than that, if the attention is paid, you can notice that the gears in the sky do not levitate since they are chained, telling that he is rotten to the core that he cannot be considired, or can consider himself, as even a machine, but just something "corrupted"
For Miyuverse Shirou' UBW, a snowy night is created, symbolizing the oath he had made under the snow to save his sister, and his perspective towards the limitless swords as graves tells that he is fine with the loss he had as long as the one is saved. "There are times when only one can outweight all"
xanxia Shirou is really a damn complex character no matter what version, man I love Fate stay night lmao.
Also, for Miyuverse Shirou, a Snowy Day was also the day that Sakura died in front of him. (Nope, not counting her lancelot version because only dead soul was injected to a doll.)
xanxia miyuverse also has a bright moon the only light that you can see it represent miyu
People die if they are killed......
"Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right." - Emiya Shirou
"The Archer class is really made up of Archers"
We Celebrate the day we were Born.
''why does the berserker go berserk'' -Semiramis
A true man never dies ... even when he's killed - Kamina from Gurren Lagann
@AniNews The paradox is fixed once you understand the 3 iterations of fate are different time loops. The first (The fate storyline) Is the first pass thought. It follows 4 rules.
1. The well of heros exists outside of time, so heros past present and future can be summoned.
(This allows Archer to be summoned at all)
2. Using the Gem as her summoning tool was the Paradox/Window heroic spirit Emiya used to get into the war.
(This is the catalyst to start a potential time paradox)
3. The grail itself is sentient, and knows all details of the servants it summons. It does not allow paradox.
(This is a counter force the grail has to combat paradox)
4. Time loops in fate are not paradoxes if they are not infinite.
(This allows Gaia and Co (all the celestials of the Nasu verse to make multiple attempts to salvage die situations)
So in the fate time line when Archer is summoned, that is the original start point for the loop. This is why Archer in the first loop has trouble remembering his own past. The grail erased it to stop him causing a paradox. Its only when he is defeated by berserker with the utterance "And i thought i had thrown them all away." Where he recovers his memory and feels regrets (the things he thought he had thrown away. For this arc his destiny is undecided, so right up until his final moments, when the grail is sure that the timeline of shiro becoming a heroic spirit and the paradox is fixed it returns Archers memories to him.
In this way Archer for the first arc represents the Idea of the hero Emiya, but doesn't have his will or motives.
This leads to a Shiro who was more powerful in the second loop, Creating the "Unlimited Blade works" Arc.
Because of repetition, the loop is now established there is no paradox. Archer is now already and forever in the well of heros. In this arc the archer we meet is the completetion of the story of the Shiro from the first loop. So it gets to have motive will and goals. This Archer is a fully realized version of Shiros Broken Idealism. He however, faced with his younger self, and seeing that Shiro gets a major power up just by fighting him give him hope that it will work out better this time. The next Shiro will be stronger and know his dark fate. He may never have to make the Guardians pact. Accepting this Fate arc Emiya hands the baton the UBW Emiya and sacrifices himself.
This leads into the third arc, "heavens feel". Where the Archer we meet is the final version of the UBW Emiya. Its why he is a bit more chill and just not out to murder Shiro. In fact he activly assists Shiro. He is the version of Shiro future that accepts the weight of the world for the price of his soul. But heavens feel takes another path. In this story what happens is Shiro being mentored a little by Medusa comes the believe that Saving just one person, is more important that saving everyone. And so will inevitably, never make the decision to sacrifice himself as a guardian to save a handful of strangers.
Because all of these loops happened, EMIYA is and will forever be in the soul well as a hero. But in the final loop his bargain with fate for power never happens. He does live on to become a legend but not an eternal self sacrificing one. That is why the Fate stay game/story only after you complete all 3 story arcs. Not because you finally find a way to vanquish the grail, but because you find a way to vanquish Emiyas Ideals and eternal suffering.
OoF i wanted to explain this quickly but it turned into a short essay sorry. Sadly there is an Ideological and Philosophical aspect in the fate narrative. So its not easy to explain concisely
So he is the same EMIYA throughout all the three routes?
So what about archer in the fate route he was the original one who told shirou about the idea of projection magic
No in the first rout he is the idea of Emiya the heroic spirit, He has the skills ability and attitude but not the momries, because having memories he hasn't made yet would A.cause a paradox B. Allow him to kill shiro completing a paradox. He can only exist here because of the Gem and the fact the well of heros exists outside of time. As you need a catalyst to summon a servant normally it would not be possible to summon a future one but Rin/Shiro and the Gem create a unique exception.
The Emiya in the second rout it the Shiro from the first route.:His ideals never having been changed.
The Emiya in the third rout is the Shiro from the second loop :His ideas having been challenged, and his skills in life having been significantly powered up in life because of the grail war UBW arc. This Archer has accepted his fate and therefore less likely to try to stop himself. Because Heavens feel ends in a completly differant way and the Shiro from this one never becomes the left loathing archer who would ever kill himself. This ends the loop.
Ferrous Oxcide ok that makes more sense now thank you
Ferrous Oxcide how in the heavens feel movie archer Emily's says something about setting aside his personal grudges to deal with the matter at hand then there's saber getting a clean hit on archer Emiya in both those routes so archer Emiya couldn't kill shirou without anyone noticing
Rin's servant? Its the fallen angel Lucifer Morningstar, Actually Satan.
Is it true?
Kawe Viana of course. You didn't know? Go watch the TRUE version, Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works abridged
Oh I see hahaha
*in the distance* I WANT THAT!
Something even funnier is that the creator of the series was asked as a joke if biblical figures like Lucifer could be summoned and he said yes
“I don't mind losing to someone else.
But I won't be beaten by myself!”
“That's a cruel thing.
I'm being made to look into an old mirror.
There really was such a man once,wasn't there?”
I really like this line of Shiro and Archer ..........
Because I am Japanese, I can only write clumsy English texts, but still I remember my feelings against Shiro and Archer as I watched this video so let me tell you a little.
Shiro said that "My dream is not wrong" and this remark seems to deny Archer seriously, but this was the word to save Archer more than anything.
Because he wanted to believe that dream that he inherited from Kiritsugu more than anyone else. But the reality did not go well, he felt like death (trying to actually kill himself) and he denied himself.
But Shiro said to him that "My dream is not wrong". Against himself who despaired because he had the same dream as pride in the same way.
This is a denial of self denial. Far from denying Archer, Shiro admits and praises what Archer has done so far and the way he has done so far.
Your English is more eloquent then many native speakers. Also as per your comment: Archer never learned to love himself, he sacrificed himself for others and even had the will of Alaya control him like a puppet. Like Rin states: "I'll help him learn to love himself more, and you should do the same." This one statement breaks the shackles that bound Archer and he reverts to being Shiro once again. Of course this took the UBW timeline for that to happen, where a Shiro that still hoped existed. Also Rin (his old friend) was incredibly helpful as well.
I’m still a little confused. What made Archer not wanting to kill Shirou? What did he realise that allowed him to believe in his ideals again after his fight with Shirou?
@@phelopatirabdel-malak554 search fate stay night rins regret
Sad fact that people only know
"People die when they are killed"
And
"Just because you are correct doesnt make you right"
The sentence is better than 75% of native English people I know can write.
Suicidal Time Traveling Ghost
When you meet your bae , but you are just suicidal time traveling ghost :p
More like genocidal
*Suicidal Time Traveling Mass Genocide Ghost.
oh no oh yes yes
Oorah
Let me answer some comments in a Q&A format concerning the loop and the paradoxes
Q: Are the EMIYAs summoned different in the three routes?
A: NO! All EMIYAs that are summoned are the same EMIYA. The Emiya summoned is from another parallel world like where the Holy Grail War ended with a nearly similar ending in the Fate route except Saber wasn't saved so he became EMIYA in that world
Q: Why were all three EMIYAs different in their goal.
A: It was because of circumstances. In Fate, EMIYA was injured by Saber and only recovered until his fight with Berserker, In UBW he wasn't injured so he could plot to kill Shirou. In HF he was injured and the shadow appeared so he had to fulfill his contract and ended up helping Shirou for the sake of fulfilling the contract or by showing bias to Sakura.
Q: Then what about the memories of EMIYA from different routes?
A: He has no memories of different routes. I'll explain it later in detail (Find it later in "Q: If he was removed from timeline, how could he be summoned for the war?")
Q:Then who was Rin's servant in the time Shirou became a counter guardian?
A: It was still EMIYA and in this case his future self. As stated that Shiro became EMIYA in a universe nearly similar to the Fate route where EMIYA was injured by Saber and only recovered in the day that he fought Heracles. So he couldn't proceed with his plan and kill his past self from his own timeline. Thus shirou from this world will become EMIYA
Q: What about the paradox from his own timeline?
A: There is no paradox. For example: Let's say the world that Shirou became EMIYA was world X. In this world, the EMIYA that was summoned was his future self and his future self was unable and will forever be incapable of killing Shirou from world X. And when Shirou becomes a counter guardian and is summoned as a servant, he will be injured by Saber and killed by Heracles before he can fulfill his plan
Q: What if EMIYA kills other shirou from different timeline, would that make his wish come true?
A: NO! the world he became EMIYA was from world X. The shirou from world X would inevitably become EMIYA and that is unchangeable. If he kills other Shirou from a different timeline, let's say world B, the Shirou that becomes EMIYA is still the Shirou from world X. It doesn't change even if he kills Shirou from FATE, UBW, and HF.
Q: Can you give another example?
A: Let's say you are from world Y, and you go back in time to kill your grandfather before your father was born. Let's say that there are two possible outcomes. One is that you kill your grandfather and another outcome is that you are unable to kill your grandfather. The outcome that you were unable to kill your grandfather would lead to history being unchanged so you return to world Y wihtout any consequences. But what if you were able to kill him. In that case the world that you are going to is a different timeline let's say in timeline Z. In timeline Z your father was never born and you were never born. but you were still from timeline Y so you would still continue existing. so in the future of timeline Z, a version of you was never born but you still exist.
Q: Wait then Archer is stuck as a counter guardian forever?
A: YES!!! This was Rin''s point when she said that archer would never be saved.
Q: Then why go through with killing Shirou?
A: Best case scenario: (which won't happen) he will be released from the contract. Worst case: he would be able to to release a bit of anger by killing a stupid Shirou (He mentioned it in his conversation with Rin)
Q: Then what about the holy grail, would that be able to cause a miracle
A: Probably no. The grail is a lump of near infinite energy. It is nearly omnipotent, not omniscient. This means that you have near unlimited energy, but the method of using it is still up to you. You cannot fulfill wishes that you don't know how the process works. For example. Kiritsugu only has one idea of world peace, which was killing everyone. Or Obito which was trapping everyone in an illusion for eternity. So EMIYA would still need to find a way to open a portal to his own timeline and travel back to the past and kill himself before he became EMIYA.
Q: What if he finds a way to travel back in past to his own timeline?
A: It is highly improbable. He would need to have a means of acquiring and using Kaleidoscope to travel dimensions, one of the five Magic (True Magic) which is considered to be lost in the world and the pinnacle of magecraft which is only acquirable to those who have reached the root (Akashic Records/ the answer to the universe) and probably another one which is speculated to be time travel. Even if he did, He would be unable to kill himself because if he was, there would be no EMIYA. and even if he did, the EMIYA from the throne would still be there. Because once a hero ascends the throne, he would be removed from timeline and so that he would remain unaltered for all eternity.
Q: If he was removed from timeline, how could he be summoned for the war?
A: All servants (except for possibly a few exception like Saber) are only copies of their former selves. Heroes go to the throne after their death. The servants are only copies of the heroes' soul. For example you die, your soul goes to a laptop. Then when their is a grail war, the grail gets a USB storage drive where it copies your soul and that copy is what is sent to the war. So when a servant dies, his memories of the past war are not recorded to his soul in the throne.. Did you notice that Kirei did not interact with Saber even though she was Kiritsugu's servant in the past war? This was because Kirei thought Saber would have no recollection of him and talking to saber about the past war would be futile. (Also including the fact that it would be awkward as hell. Hahahah)
Also note that this is why at the end Rin wanted Archer to keep on being her servant. If Archer disappears, the real Emiya in the throne would be unable to retain memories of this route. This is why she at least wanted this copy of Emiya to be with her and save him.
Q: But servants in FGO retain memories.
A: I see a few possibilities, first is that the servants that are summoned in FGO are not direct copies from the throne and are probably altered copies of the soul where are given memories of the past wars. In this case, the soul in the throne would still be unaltered thus proving my point in the previous question. Another one is that it is from a universe that allows altering the soul in the throne so in this case, it would not apply in this universe.
Q: How was Saber able to retain her memories from Fate/Zero
A: Saber is still not dead. If you watched or read Fate Zero, Saber was summoned in the 4th war right after her battle in Camelot. And in Fate/Stay Night, she was summoned as she is expecting Bedivere to return her sword to the Lake.
Q: how can she be summoned if she is still alive?
A: She is summoned as a pseudo servant and only her consciousness vanish. This result to her being unable to dematerialize and go to spirit form like other servants.
My god bro you answered so many fucking questions I’ve had about this series but there’s still so much more I’d like to know. you seem like a really fountain of Fate Lore thanks for the help
Thank you
I never comment, but damn I have to say thank you! This sure took a lot of time. Know that you are helping a lot of people!👏👏
Are you a God?
So why Archer save Shirou in HF ? He said something like "If I do nothing we will both die". Why he saved himeself if I want to die ?
50% of comments: (*essays adding on to theories*)
Last 50% of comments: (*jokes, especially from the Abridged series*)
All Archer had to do, instead of killing Shirou, was just simply tell him: “Hey, don’t make a deal with a globe-floating-Arya-entity, it’s not going to go well. Also, there will come a time when you will have to save 100 people, do this stuff in this order so you can save them and not make the deal. And whatever you do, don’t trust these people in this Great War that will eventually happen. Don’t trust anyone. There! I just saved my past self!”
I read that in Abridged Archer’s voice
If he try to say that then holy grail will seal his memories or put a curse on him to not speak about future events
@@connormccarthy6741 same lol
Ye that won't happen. Archer took millennia to realize this mistake. There is no doubt that the great shirou will make the deal to save lives. Because he is still in the heat of the moment. And considering shirou character he'll take the deal. If your future self took a millennia to understand the mistake, then what's the possibility of the fresh one to realize it.
@@lordlopikong6940 Not if it's done in a way that manipulates Shirou into believing it's the best way to save everyone.
So the Shirou at the end of the anime, having just defeated gilgamesh with borrowed mana and his first use of UBW, doesn't eventually become the Archer he had fought so hard to reject? That's actually a relief, because I had figured it was a tragic loop where archer would never stop shirou and shirou would always become the archer that fails to stop it.
Nasu confirmed that the possibility of shirou become archer is close to Zero.
Fate Shirou enter avalon and be with Saber
UBW shirou found his resolve.
HF shirou throw his ideal away like garbage so him becoming archer is zero.
@@thinhvo3893 really ? I didn't watch hf but i though i heard it was the route in wich he became archer cause he has thrown his ideals
The ending of the UBW anime is actually Archer acknowledging that while he still has regrets he acknowledges that his dream still has merit, which is shown with how he acts more mellow in Grand Order.
Shirou doesn't become archer because he already gained all the power he would ever need since he has ubw early,so he doesn't become a counter guardian since he's got the power he needed to save everyone
I'd say ubw shirou probably married rin and had a much better life of actual success but ashtar canonically has teenage rins body so I don't know
@@mariael2620 I think archer emiya was created in a universe similar to the events of the fate route
"I am the Bone of my Sword
Steel is my Body and Fire is my Blood.
I have created over a Thousand Blades,
Unknown to Death,
Nor known to Life.
Have withstood Pain to create many Weapons
Yet those Hands will never hold Anything.
So, as I Pray--
Unlimited Blade Works"
That shits deep
*God of Forge & Fire*
Hephaestus/Vulcan
Deep shit
I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to death nor known to life
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray
UNLIMITED BLADEWORKS
Step one: find a video about shirou
Step two: commit copypasta
Step three: profit
We never see EMIYA acts as a counter guardian only a servant. Hope Nasu can give us a spin-off of him.
I don't know why he doesn't. In all popularity polls, Emiya archer ranks as the most voted male.
But we get Fate content about literally all random piece of shit concepts but not something as interesting as Emiya's adventures.
I would love to see an anime about Archer in his counter guardian years. Or maybe his life of going back to being a counter guardian after he leaves Rin.
I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to Death,
Nor known to Life.
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.
Who is archer? All I see is **Actually Satan**. The Actually is important, I think?
Immortal Emperor with an Epic Beard Seriously? Father of guy with a mustache?
Joecool Eru are you talking about it being cancelled because it is scheduled to come out this month or next month. Watch their most recent video if you haven’t.
Immortal Emperor with an Epic Beard
Uhh what?
thats because he is ACTUALLY Satan due to VA joke as Suwabe voices Lucifer in DxD.
Train Hardnett
Oh crap your talking about that terrible anime. *pukes*
Emiya Alter, while leaving out major spoilers, boils down to Emiya being corrupted by an outside source and the essence of his being (his warped values as a hero of justice) being broken. They are still there, but they are twisted further beyond Emiya's values. His appearance is both the more intense usage of mana and a reference to "Kintsugi," the Japanese art of repairing pottery with gold. The idea is that something can be broken and still have value, and that the breaks do not take away from its uniqueness but contribute to it.
Roman Toth so he became a black guy?
Mao Sama Well yeah, projection magecraft is one hell of a drug
yeah but overtime you see him slowly come back to emiya to the point lines of death appear on him with gold lines
So this is my interpretation of the Loop Emiya is stuck in. Rin will always summon Archer Emiya due to the pendant being used as the catalyst during the summon. In fact I believe it was stated that the catalyst was the reason why Emiya was summoned at all.
In the original Fate Route of the series, you can see that there’s the chance that Emiya (Archer) and Shirou don’t interact too much and Shirou has no idea who Archer is. Nasu has stated that the Fate Route is the closest we will ever see of Emiya’s Holy Grail War, but even then it’s not exact. We can assume that something similar happened in Emiya’s own War and that he never really communicated with Archer to know who he is. This Shirou never learns his Fate and presses forward to become a Hero of Justice
Levi Kazama there isn’t a way for Emiya to be stuck in a time loop. Once he became a Counter Guardian his existence was recorded outside of Time and Space, much like servants who are recorded in the Throne of Heroes. No matter what happens, or what ending Shirou comes to, there will always be a Shirou Emiya that is a counter guardian in the Fate universe. If Archer did manage to kill his past self, he would’ve still existed because he exists outside of time and space. His only way out is a futile endeavor that adds more to his own tragedy
Levi Kazama At the start of every Holy Grail War (until Archer vs Saber in the prologue) Archer is facing a version of Shirou that will become him and Shirou is facing the end of his ideal but doesn’t know it. From Archer vs Saber, there are a million other ways that the 5th HGW can go. If for some reason Shirou is in the route that he becomes Archer, then that means that Archer dies before him and Shirou ever fall into conflict, eliminating any chance of a time loop. Sure Archer will be sent to a 5th Holy Grail War, but that doesn’t mean that will always be THE 5th War.
If it was a timeloop, then Shirou Emiya would be stuck in a never ending cycle of being summoned to the exact same War with the exact same outcome, but Fate/SN Fate; Fate/SN UBW; and Fate/SN HF all prove that that isn’t the case. Archer Shirou isn’t in a timeloop, he merely gets to see the near infinite possibilities of the 5th war. And he will almost never remember any of them.
Fate/GO has shown that Archer only really remembers the end of UBW. He notes that he still can’t stand his past self, but he does accept his role in the universe and does his best to keep his smile while working
The thing Nasu said about Archer war was that the conditions at the start of the war were pretty much the same as Fate and that he didn't manage to save saber, but that means the war could have been wildly diferent just that now the "Fate route is the closest to Archer war" is the new "Archer war was Illya route"
What is even the problem with summoning EMIYA into his original timeline anyway? From what i understand there is one Throne of Heroes in the Multiverse outside of timelines and spirits in it are free from such cause-effect chains. Pendant is a catalyst because EMIYA is in the Throne already from any timeline's perspective and always will be -> Rin summons EMIYA -> saves Shirou leaving the pendant with him -> Holly Grail War -> Shirou lives and dies -> becomes a Guardian -> cleans up endless messes and participates in some more variations of HGW -> is summoned into his first War before he is summoned into UBW route so he doesn't give a fuck anymore but is not fed up enough yet to kill Shirou.
Isn’t it just that heroic spirit emiya is already in the throne of heroes and will remain even if current shiro doesn’t become a counter guardian and so basically archer shiro is just from a different timeline and in his timeline by whatever means the grail war goes on in a similar way to how it does in any given route
JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE CORRECT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE RIGHT!
PEOPLE DIE IF THEY ARE KILLED
Tacticaldifficulties THE ARCHER CLASS IS REALLY MADE UP OF ARCHERS!
... This sentence is so right yet so wrong
Its actually, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE *CORRECT* (logically correct) DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE *RIGHT* (morally right)!
I'm not A professional correct
Heroic spirit emiya is literally the epitome of “You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.”
emiya alter appearance its because his body it's by far more damage than his normal self he described himself has a living corpse both mentally and physically his alter is basicaly a nother posibility of what emiya shiro can become
his alter self took a total different path , emiya alter main difference in his path was 1 single target that change he in a brutal way, he was sended to kill a leader of a cult that would cause enormous damage to the the world It's self, but when he come to the place of the woman that led to the cult, and he went to try the kill she, innocent people protect her and he was forced to kill them all and when he tried to kill the woman that he's profile describe her has "a woman that has the love of a holy mother" she talk with he and she break he and his ideals, after he kill the woman he start of not caring about the method or the casualties that could provoke he holy cares about the objetive
if you asked , the woman is kiara
pretending100 You mean the nun from Fate Extra Ccc?
no the reason his skin is dark is the same reason as regular projection magic he used alot more projection magic than EMIYA
Not really the darken skin is to show how far he broken from even his CG self the gold lines on his body are references to Kintsugi a type of pottery were you put a broken piece back together with gold it has the same kind of lines if you look it up, as you ascend him higher in his accensions he starts to forget who he was showing that he slowly falling apart he looks weird but I really like his theme
What’s worse is that Kiara was rapidly becoming what’s known as a Beast, one of the Seven Greatest Threats to Humanity itself.
yes she is xuanhoi do
Actually Nasu explained who Archer is. Exactly.
Heroic Spirit/Counter Guardian EMIYA is a Shirou Emiya who lived a route similar to Fate, but wasn't able to make Arturia change her idea about erasing herself and her reign period from history. She didn't use the Grail, being a corrupted power, but she decided to search for something else.
Emiya was devasted by this and when the time was right (the anime implies that the incident was a nuclear energy source almost gone BOOM) he traded his afterlife for power.
He never regretted It, but being a HS/CG is difficult, and he doesn't remember all of his life. His desire to change isn't ignored during UBW because of fluff, but because by "fighting" Shirou he just remembered those feelings, and remembered who he was.
Also, there is no timeloops (how people even in the comments think of that? There is no reason for It). There are various, all Canon, universes. EMIYA isn't in no loop, since he doesn't perceive time.
The real unclear point is in how much Archer remembers of the wars. As said, he doesn't remember the details of his life (EMIYA remembers fighting the 5th HGW, but probably he didn't remember Lancer stabbing him, for example), and in a similar way he remember only vague things from his missions around time and space. Yet, he remembers them. He is a CG, not a normal HS.
Therefore EMIYA probably has somewhere the memories collected during the UBW events.
So,in the first fate stay night arc,another comment mentioned that the grail took his memory of his failed ideals to prevent time paradox.but u saying that he forgot his memories as being a counter guardian isn't easy??
You can't easily recall the memories when you are younger right?
Same logic applies only that you live for an even longer time.
Being a Counter Guardian erased part of his memory.
But his wish will shine eternal, he will keep saving humans because he find happiness in it.
And this wasn't inherited from Kiritsugu, this is the true nature of emiya shiro, in the end he's still believing in his ideals.
He regains some of his memories of various summons through his reality marble, which is separated from the Throne of Heroes, if I'm not mistaken. This is why he remembers countless battles, becoming so jaded in the process. After just dying, he wouldn't have been the cynical Archer of the 5th HGW, but he was summoned time and time again to clean up the mess, retaining some of these memories in his reality marble. EMIYA didn't grow old enough and didn't accomplish enough in life to get where he was, but he preserved his memories from various summons, leading to his current self.
So his story is like Yu from Charlotte
I am a simple man
i see my gorgeous ARCHER
i click
Why did i type this..... I'll never understand
@@jugemujugemugokonosurikire4735 2 years ago🤣
The outside time concept its repeated a lot when talking about Archer and the throne of heroes in general but it seems a lot of people don't really get it, outside of time means timelines don't matter and things can happen simultanously without a before or after, there is no timeline before Archer became a counterguardian because the moment he is a counterguardian he already exists in past, present and future, and the paradoxes are avoided with the mere nature of the setting if you change something a new timeline Is born but your timeline doesn't stop existing, and Archer himself says so that it doesn't matters if he kills Shirou he will still exist, and he is aiming to cause the paradox anyway with the hope that the world will go crazy and erase his existence of all realities or something but he knows thats not likely at all , he is just frustrated
Como Sea Cs perfectly explain what I think.
Its really sad. Because kiritsugu basically learned the lesson shirou does after becoming a guardian, during fate zero. That being a hero is akin to being a murderer. That evil and good must exist in balance. But that being the force that balances it .will always be deemed evil in itself. Shirou's discovery of this is almost a fanatic resolve to continue forward until he cannot take it anymore. Only to go back and warn himself, and be faced with that same, unwavering fanaticism.
This comment here is a great example of why present me is always ready to punch past me in the gut if I ever fall backwards in time.
What even the fuck was 4 years ago me saying? Little shit needs to get punched is what he needs lol
“Tracing something doesn’t mean you’re copying it.”
According to the story, servants has Noble Phantasms and weaknesses...
Hero Epic spirit Emiya which is Archer has the Reality Marble and you know what was his weakness...
Throwing his own ideals and regretting of becoming the hero of Justice..
That's why he was defeated by Shirou..
There is truly a great power of those who believe rather those who wouldn't..
EMIYA became the ideal version of a hero of justice, Kiritsugu thought of
7:39 the Alter version seems like Pucci to me from JoJo Part 6
Archer is officially a jojo reference
Ah did you know that a ear aftet you posted this JoJo part 6 woukd get confirmed?
4:28 we have recently learned that Atlantis was actually destroyed by Sefar. Disproving that other theory
Rin's Archer in Emiya's original timeline was actually him, the term is called Bootstrap paradox, in wich an object or person in the future travels in time to "watch or interact" with the beginning of something, only to realize that said object or subject came from the future as well, turning it into a loop.
Emiya's chance to kill himself was wasted in the first route, because his memories are actually messed up for a bad summoning (in this part I've always theorized that it was Alaya's doing as a keepsafe). Just as he is about to die against Berserker he starts remembering everything but understands that his chance is wasted.
yeah but why he wants to kill his past self
That is explained in the video, to create a Paradox big enough to erase his own existence, because after having to kill so many people for the sake of "Saving humanity", he understood that his ideals were wrong.
Emiya has gonne through hell, as his dream was to save everyone, but Alaya's contract binds him to kill everyone near a catastrophe to save humanity as a whole, even innocent people.
False, Nasu has stated several times Emiya doesnt come from FS timelines, everyone is just headcanoning his beginnings
@@aaronocarroll4343 Really? do you have the source? I'd love to see it and I've read the wiki again but found nothing
- That's Hell you're walking into.
- This is what you forgot. I admit that at first it was just admiration. But at the heart of it all was a wish. The wish for this Hell to be undone. The unfulfilled wish of a man who only wanted to help others, but who lost everything in the end.
- Even if that life will be that of a machine?
- Yeah. Even if tha life is dripping with hypocrisy. I'll keep striving to be a champion of Justice.
Rin's servant in "pre-alaya shirou" timeline is still EMIYA. It's the concept of the throne of heroes being able to draw from the future. So EMIYA already "existed" in the future during the first instance of the holy grail war in the timeline.
That still means technically archer actually had a shot at a time paradox at least once
When it comes to Emiya Alter's appearance from FGO, it's subtly stated that someone (who is a big spoiler for Fate/Extra CCC) had a hand indirectly orchestrating his corruption into an Alter version, but even then he still is mostly Emiya (or Nameless since it's the Extra version of Emiya) by structure. It's just that his personality is basically cold towards everyone and even to himself, "while having no ideals or ideology in order to achieve his goals by cruel means like merciless slaughter"*. (*this comes from the Type-Moon Wiki for him, just paraphrased.)
Shirou was a guardian from the past present and future of any and all time lines he basically is the one character is like Dr who
Emiya Alter's form is actually rather creative and symbolic when you look in-between the lines. If you look at his skin tone (before he got an OxiClean makeover, and when you look past the "Detroit" aesthetic), it has some clever symbolic meaning to it.
Take a look at one of the lines in Emiya's Noble Phantasm's incantation "Steel is my body, Fire is my blood". In a sense, Emiya's body and his ability to create weapons basically makes him into a glorified forgery. It would make sense for Emiya Alter's form to be charred, burned even. It's as if now his magecraft actually scorches his skin, whereas Counter Guardian Emiya's skin is only tanned and Shirou's is unblemished.
Eh, I don't know, maybe I'm just trying to defend the old Emiya Alter's form from being offensive
Rin summoned a servant of which she thought was a saber class servant turns out it was actually satan
It's sad because from the way Fate/stay night UBW ends it seems Shiro literally goes down the same road
Actually, the autor confirmed he won't
No, he will only look like archer but nah, rin wont allow him to become archer and vn had a happy ending.
He is still to this day my favourite servant😁
OVERLORD video this weekend. That's a promise.
AniNews YAY!!!!!
Under promise, over deliver. ;D
Bout time xD
AniNews maybe, just maybe, in an alternate timeline, Rin summons Lancer (because in UBW, lancer dies and actually told Rin that he would be happier with Rin being his master) and that Shirou fought Rin without having to know or any contact with each other. That way, in the end, Shirou actually was alone the whole time throughout the 4th holy grail war. And the the question comes up, what about Kotomine's servant? Well, actually anything can happen at that period. He could have summoned the true assassin, in which case, could appear from the body of Kojiro Sasaki. Then everything else goes according to the story, just that Shirou got no help from Rin, and maybe had teamed up with Illya. A lot of branches can happen in the Fate Stay Night event and frankly speaking, I could talk on and on about diffrent timelines where Rin doesnt summon EMIYA, but I guess it comes up to anyone's imagination. In the end, Fate is just something that we have not knowledge of and know nothing of its power. That is what make this series a really interesting one no less.
can you make a video about albedo?
There's even more material to go over from the light novels too. The anime doesn't make this super clear, but he has what's called "survivor's guilt" as a result of being the only survivor of the tragedy that was the result of the previous holy grail war. This survivor's guilt is coped with by the dream of becoming a hero of justice. He himself doesn't believe he was worthy of being saved, so he resolved himself to become the ultimate savior of others. He puts himself dead last on the list of priorities, to the point of helping even people like Shinji.
Thanks to his fight with EMIYA, he is able to steel himself as he walks into hell, fully accepting that while i"saving everyone" is contradictory, it "doesnt matter" because the ideal itself is not wrong. It seems overly idealistic, but It's actually a really good message, because like in real life, it's important to act positively in spite of the negative, because reacting negatively will only yield negative results. He is able to "walk into hell" now because he witnessed the "salvation" that can still be found there.
It's basically the most edgelord argument in favor of positive thinking as you can get.
Really nice video! It cleared many of the doubts I had about Archer's Life
The Throne of Heroes records both heroes from past and FUTURE. Yeah, EMIYA will always be summoned by Rin during the Fuyuki Grail War.
it's sad to see the end of a anime and rin is gone she was like my favorite anime girl for some reason
Archer is most badass character after gilgamesh
You should fix your keyboard a little bit
After? he’s better than gilgamesh imo
@@Replied_ByMeatr1der5
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Cu is way more badass than lancer
@@imhxl1527 lol never Gil is way more badass
i remember when played the game at end of the unlimited blade works (IN THE GAME NOT THE ANIME) archer asks tohsaka take care of shirou so that he wil not became a heroic spirit so long history short tohsaka was going to marry shirou and make him happy as a human and a magus that would work just fine be cause in this time line tohsaka loved shirou.
I love how EMIYA's red cloak is from tsukihime's Ciel
You are the first person to finally tell his story without making it very convoluted.
Perhaps the original timeline was Heaven's Feel in which Shirou goes down the "mind of steel" route. Rin would have likely summoned a saber, leaving Shirou with an archer. Things happen differently enough that he decides to kill Sakura when offered the opportunity by Kotomine.
From what I understand, though my knowledge might be incorrect:
-in the stay night route, shirou never learns about archer's identity, remains ignorant of his fate, and eventually becomes archer;
-due to the mechanics of the throne, each route gets a different "copy" of the "original" archer emiya, wich end up in differnet circunstances;
-in the SN route, due to being excessively close to his "source", the resulting paradox leaves archer without memories, never recovered thorough the war.
-In the UBW route, due to a higher variation, archer does eventually recover his memories, then elaborates his plan to kill shirou; after dissapearing, his existence moves on to FSN's "final ending".
-In UBW route, shirou has learned enough to challenge his own ideals of justice and argably no longer will become archer emiya, though it's well within possibility that he would become a different form of heroic spirit(possibly Alter?).
-in HF route, it's such a different timeline that archer quickly recovers from his memory loss, but precisely because of that, he can recognize the massive changes to the timeline as a potentially prioritary threat, so he doesn't act on the suicide plan.
in the stay night route he goes to Avalon after dying and reunites with Saber :o
fate shirou doesn't become archer. Archer comes from another universe siilar to fate route, but ot the same
In heavens feel archer emiya does realize that the outcome of this grail will not lead to his result he even states that after there encounter with the Angra mainyu connected shadow of sakura. And basically that does happens became that route either ends as shirou sacrificing himself or sacrificing others for the sake of sakura and follows the ideal kiritsigu had now there is another bad ending in which shirou lets sakura die for no sacrifices but then illya let him realize the sadness and despair he felt basically he was broken and after realizing it Im sure that shirou regret to sacrifice sakura for sake of humanity and doesn't become a CG at the first place
The fate route is closest to Archer's but regular Shirou reunites with Saber in Avalon after she patiently waits forever and he searches forever
Zaruian
From what I understand you need to read the TM wiki page on Archer.
The Emiya Alter appearance is him basically overusing his power so much that his skin become charcoal. Like how Emiya get tanned by working at a forge for example but this Emiya burned his skin up while working the forge. Why he is golden is that it him breaking himself as a person, he can barely remember things from 5 minutes ago as they seem like a dream so he is 100% broken but the golden cracks are meant to represent like a vase where you fix it with gold as the imperfections make it better but in Emiya case it.. him ruining his mind.
There is controversy over this Emiya skin over the "What I thought he would look like if he went to prison" a better translation is "After drawing him it looked like he came from prison" Handcuffs, guns and the hairstyle you get it.
So in a short man terms, broken man burned himself and only is held together by golden scars.
The Multiverse can explain a lot of shenanigans. In stories like this once I know there's a Multiverse I don't have to overthink it. Well spoken video. Stay the course.
All I know is I’m madly in love with him and nobody can stop me.
Thongs get interesting when you eventually realize that archer must have fought in the trojan war if his ability to call rho aias is anything to go by.
Fantastic video!
So about your question; from what I can tell, EMIYA (Archer) was still Rin's servant in EMIYA's timeline of the Fate events. It's assumed that it would have been similar to the Fate route, however a timeline where Shirou doesn't save Saber or Illya.
Rin's Servant in any version of the 5th Grail War will always be EMIYA because of her pendant. This is because the Heroic Spirit EMIYA held onto her pendant until his death because she saved him in his timeline (as explained in the video).
yap and if the fate route is the closest we will ever get to the emiya route that means that archer was taken out halfway through it and wasnt really much present when he was there which means shirou dint really interact with him or he had a chance to kill him
Ok there’s no way I’m the only one that feels like the ending of the Unlimited Blade Works is unfinished, I honestly wanted to see Shirou and Rin be together and see how them being at the Clocktower will be. If there is more to it please inform me
With all he's been through, I won't be surprised if he has a mental breakdown and goes all out and berserk-y. Not corrupted by outside force like Emiya Alter but rather an intrinsic change.
hopefully he covers the alternate versions of Unlimited Blade Works. Like Unlimited Lost Works and the sword made by Muramasa, Tsumugari Muramasa.
Miyuverse Shirou's is my personal favorite since the snowy graveyard is such a contrast between a normal Shirou's fiery hill.
Hopefully AnimeNews also covers Unlimited Gae' Bolg Blade Gandr Works Excalibur and/or Majin (Okita) Saber.
but most importantly the bone of his sword
Gotta love how the MC is basically the degraded version, but ultimately better version of the King of Heroes
In a world of heroes and legends, one of the bests is a hand me down of the greatest hero
Also imagine if OG Archer route's Archer is Shirou but it's not a counter guardian
And Shirou(Archer) didn't realize that Shirou will go down into the CG route if he didn't have someone to strive for
Just to be clear, FSN Archer is not "Fate Shirou". I feel like a lot of people make that false confusion because of how similar they might seem. Fate Shirou might have followed a similar path, but his goal was different(thanks to Arturia) and that is why his mindset allowed him to transcend Archer's cynicism and despair upon revealing the truth of the emptiness of the ideal of justice.
Archer is an alternate Fate Shirou
Archer is Archer. Fate Shirou is Fate Shirou. What divides them makes them completely different
Shirou Ikonoya Nasu's interview regarding Archer specifically stated that while the beginning portion of his Grail War was similar to Fate's, the rest wasn't. While Archer's timeline shares some similarity to that of Fate's, they should be considered distinct routes, especially for thematic reasons.
Your premise that Shirou doesn't become archer because of Arturia is false, Shirou was devistated that he wasn't able to end up with Arturia and he wasn't able to help her achieve her wish, his entire future is based on that one event , Shirou became Archer, because of Arturia, not the other way around.
@@husamstarxin4626 Archer became such a regretful individual because he was unable to save Arturia's heart, and they were unable to understand each other and so Shirou himself had no real goal in life beyond what he started with.
Fate Shirou did not fall for Archer's mistake, because he was able to save Arturia's heart, and they were able to understand each other. That is why i said Arturia gave him a goal. They saved each other in effect.
Fate Shirou diverted from Archer in that he didn't want to become a hero to fill his own emptiness using his promise with Kiritsugu as an excuse(which would bring him no respite as Archer shows).
He became a hero of justice because that was what tied him and Arturia together, he was running after her when following that path, rather than the ideal of justice itself and the assumption that it was an end goal.
My head cannon is that in FGO he works through these issues and is more at peace with himself. At the very least he is happier serving to a purpose closer to his ideal
Lucky from his encounter from his younger self showed him his resolve as a person again.
Rin's servant in the other timeline was also likely heroic Emiya too, since Archer is a heroic spirit, time does not affect him. Which means he could be summoned into alternative timelines. Other people also think that heroic Emiya was the Shirou from Fate route.
He can't be shirou from Fate route because he is in avalon
Como Sea Cs honestly i'd like to see them make a series only about archer and his past as shirou, it'd be really interesting to see the differences
ballman earny I only see them doing it in the far far future if they do it at all, right now is intentionally as vague as posible and helps with the mistery surronding Archer besides they probably don't care about it
in the last episode's manga fate shirou looks ALOT like Archer m.imgur.com/r/grandorder/rc4JrBq
@@vokhanhhoang8378 Holy shit is this actually canon to the fate stay night?
where'd you even find this? though thanks a lot for posting it here!
6:10
Yeah, that s the thing that will always bother me but maybe there was no archer because gilgamech was already here and maybe bazette was still alive too instead of being killed off screen.
As for his alter, its shirou following the path of kiritsugu in killing everything that threat the worl without a care.
Its basically what if shirou was like kiritsugu. There s more happening to him but he started as an alter for the reason i mentionned.
Dreary doll like someone have said Archer exist outside of time and space so the time loop will not exist (and it only kind of true in 1 timeline).
Dreary doll That actually makes sense that there can be two archers if he is a counter guardian.
Dreary doll bazzet te got killed? When did she get killed off screen
Oiluj Ez
kotomine murdered her after she summoned lancer and took her command spell.
She never appeared in the anime because of that.
Dreary doll but didn’t the homie avenger save her
Oh so we're doing EMIYA now.
That's hell you're walking into, you know?
How could I miss this video. One of my favorite servants/ fgo servants
A hero who attempts to save everyone will be a person who can never save his or herself.
The ways he comes to an end in the 3 routes also show different part of his story. The first route Fate he is severely hurt in the first Saber encounter meaning he was weakened. He later sacrifices him self to buy Saber,Rin, and Shirou to escape Hercules. Fulfilling his role as a “servant.”
The second route UBW is where he gets the chance to act on his plan as he is not weakened by Sabers initial blow as it never happens. He then goes on the Fight him self. In order to crush his past self. Morally and Physically. Hopping that by breaking him the paradox is big enough to erase his existence as a CG. In this route he fulfilled his “Himself” and realized that he was not wrong.
(Side not I don’t believe he had to save people to become engraved in the throne I think once he made the contract his name was automatically written to it I could be wrong tho.)
In Heavens Feel. He is consumed by the Darkness while buying time for shirou to escape. And gives his arm to him as a replacement.He chose to fulfill his role as a “counter guardian.”
But the wired thing is how all three of these time lines take place at the same time. Relatively speaking. Since the nasuverse runs on a modified world line theory. I can go on but I’m probably babbling at this point. If you want to know more I can help.
Good apreciations and you are right he gets recorded in the throne in exchange of his soul, and just to note he is not consumed by the Shadow just heavilly injured then gives his arm because he was going to die
Como Sea Cs right. XD need to play the visual novel I have it but it incredibly long.
Where can I find the episodes of him beginning a servant? I watched fate stay night but I never seen the alaya scene
You want Unlimited Blade Works though I can't remember which episode
You should watch/read the stuff relating to UBW and heaven's feel.
At the end of the last UBW episode
I don't remember where i read it, but the authors said that the timeline where/when Shirou became Archer is similar to the Fate timeline, but at the end he "didn't save saber's heart", so they both failed to make each others a little less obsessed with their ideals; in that timeline Rin's servant may have been Shirou anyway, since even a future has its own future.
They also said thet the protagonis' fates are not set in stone after the end of the routes, and in neither of them Shirou is totally prevented to become Archer (even if the probabilities are minimal), so actually there can be many different Archers.
Also, in one of the HF bad endings, the ones Shirou chooses to kill Sakura to save her potential victims and then he won the Grail, "finally becoming a hero o justice", is probably an ending after which Shirou becomes Archer
pretty much
Little correction:
He didn't enter the Throne of Heroes through fame. It was pretty much just automatic either after he died or when he made the contract, both due to Alaya.
It's said Alaya is an "unorthodox" method to get into the Throne of Heroes.
THIS is the explanation I needed. Very nice 👍🏽 thank you
Still confused gotta watch this about 5 more times🤦🏽♂️
"As for his alter...I have no idea..."
Lol
Archer will always be the hottest hero of them all
it's like this, Heroic Emiya is Emiya Shirou from an alternate timeline, though Shirou's timeline was altered because of Heroic Emiya's intervention, so the timeline would be the same if Heroic Emiya didn't interfere, so the Archer from Heroic Emiya's timeline was also Heroic Emiya himself but the Heroic Emiya from that timeline didn't interfere and for some reasons never put his plan in action, just like in Fate route where Archer was indeed wanted to kill Shirou but never actually did it.
I'm super sad to hear about this story yet I enjoyed it. Its also an epic moment when they say he is a servant from the future and that's why he is a big unknown to the present servants I can see why but dam he just wanted out and done...
Yey finally
you will be able to go to Avalon to be with saber
@@treymcclure3243 ameen
Shirou's story saddens me so deeply, the fact that no matter which Shirou we're talking about (Since it's been established that at different points in time there are Shirou exists simultaneously, just like every other character) he will still always die by the hands of those he fought to save tears me apart. That being said, I wouldn't change a single thing about his story, because as sad as it makes me that no matter which Shirou we're talking about, we know he'll never get his happy ending with Rin, I would be pissed if Shirou abandoned his ideals that he fought so hard to protect.
Damn, this series has hurt me badly, in a good way though, I've never felt so conflicted about an anime ending ever.
I’m still a little confused. What made Archer not wanting to kill Shirou? What did he realise that allowed him to believe in his ideals again after his fight with Shirou?
I watch Fate and Regarding to what happens to Shiro
My thing is WHAT HAPPEN TO RIN?
Wow thank you so much explaining it now I have a better understanding of how he became what he is
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in Fate Extella that the various routes that diverge from a choice are all possibilities that stem from the Root. Even the tiniest of choices cause a split in the timeline. Possibilities that come to a deadlock are halted and destroyed, as sustaining a computer running infinite possibilities is impossible. Outside elements come into play to ensure the complete and utter annihilation of a timeline. The Throne of Heroes is essentially a concept outside of time and space, so they're not affected by this.
I think Archer is one of those possibilities. I'm not too sure if his plan in FSN might have worked, because even if he did kill Shirou in that timeline, it still wouldn't remove him from the Throne or from being Alaya's toy. If the Throne is outside time-space, all the good Archer would have done was to take one possibility's Shirou from becoming a Counter Force, yet Archer would never get the exit ticket he needs to get out of the Throne.
So, to be specific on which Shirou is Archer, you really can't narrow it down, since there are an infinite number of choices that came in between the end of FSN and his contact with Alaya.
From which anime is the scene when shirou becomes counter guardian? I mean after 3:00?
From the 2014-15 anime.
what's the music played at 0:31 plz i really liked that editing
Unlimited Blade works ost
UNITED STATES OF SMASH!!!
With such an aging population, I sincerely doubt it.
@@mksmike how high are you?
@@asurashun9695 Haha no mate, it's "hi, how are you"
@@asurashun9695 1000% higher than you
Archer is from the the fate route where he failed to make saber change her wish, and in the original fate route shirou ended up looking alot like archer
I wonder how EMIYA will react when he finds out that Solomon and Musashi managed to erase their existences
Most of the people here are too fixed on their linear idea of time, they think that Shirou became a guardian in the future, and went back in time to save the world/ enter the holy grail war. This is completely wrong!!!
When the world or Fate decided that Shirou would became a Guardian, it was set in stone/ the fabric of space as a concept. So long before Shirou was already born, his hero self was already massacring humanity.
So the idea of Shirou being summoned "before" he became a guardian is already faulty.
Which means that in the route where Shirou becomes Archer, was just one of infinite many routes, and of course Rin always summoned Archer, if she didnt, this loop would never have happened.
Well different concepts of time exist. Many worlds interpretation, quantum universes, parallel timelines. Fate sits between the many worlds interpretation and quantum universes. The routes are timelines that could be treated as different worlds. Grand/Order is a perfect example of this, where the heroes from that world travel to many of the routes - UBW, Fate, Heaven's Feel, Encore, Apocrypha etc. to halt the coming apocalypse.
No it is what makes sense. At least to me.
Let's say I make a movie and I change the ending at the last second and release it. People will remember it as that ending. The characters will act as that ending was always there. The movie itself will remember it as the only ending. But, that does not mean the old ending never existed.
Similarly, just because the timeline of Fate Stay/Night was rewritten doesn't mean it never existed. The internal reality may perceive it as something that was always there. But an external being looking into the reality will see a higher 'history of changes' timeline unaffected by the changes.
Sounds convoluted but in practice it is this;
Blank - Movie 1st Ending - Movie Final Ending
Blank - Holy Grail War with different archer with Shirou who becomes Archer - Holy Grail War with Archer and Shirou who becomes Archer.
Also, it's in the word. Rewritten. As in wrote again. Meaning it was before at least written once.
Hey, what's anime that? I mean, I know, that is Nasuverse, but I didn't remember the one, where Alaya is shown. In what series you can see the moment, when Shirou sell his soul? Like in 2:59
Unlimited Blade Works - anime series. He shows (or rather tells) current Shiro flashbacks of his life and how he became who he was.
Shiro and Saber. ❤️
His Alter form is probably the same thing, just at a more extreme/ violent scale. Maybe the first loop Emiya realized that no matter what he did, he could not change the past in his favour exactly as he wanted it. So he went on a rampage using more and more magic. Alternatively(HA!), it’s just Emiya Summoned from a much later point in time in a timeline where he just kept fighting.
For your question, Rin has ALWAYS have the potential to summon EMIYA, as she didn't really have a catalyst to summon a Servant, the very reason why she thought her Pendant can be a catalyst.
But during the Fate route, Shirou didn't even have that much moments of speaking with EMIYA Archer, suggesting that they're not always at quarrelling terms, even though they kinda hate each other's guts. And Kinoko Nasu stated that the possibility of Shirou becoming UBW's EMIYA is actually close to zero. It would suggest that EMIYA will be always Rin's Servant, and Shirou will always be a Counter Guardian in almost all timelines, but there's only a very slim chance that it would be the disillusioned/betrayed Shirou getting the chance to enact his plans (there are 3 routes anyway, Fate Stay Knight, UBW and Heaven's Feel with varying degrees of Shirou's interaction with Shirou)
What I can theorize is since being a Counter Guardian means being out of the rules of space and time, EMIYA just was repeatedly summoned into the Grail War until he arrives at the UBW timeline, and realizing later it was futile. He even sees himself before he became dissillusioned (the scene where he helps kids in a camp), realizing that he knows he can't succeed on killing Shirou, and he hates it.
I liked the Original Fate: Stay/Night more. FIGHT ME!!!
Deen's anime wasn't bad just mediocre. The animation was subpar and bland, and it mixed events from different routes that didn't belong in saber's route. Only thing going for it really is the soundtrack which is phenomenal and that the art style is more faithful to the VN than ufotable. I still prefer ufotable despite their creative liberties with the art style because it gives everyone more detail and makes sense with the better animation.
A lot of supposition and conjecture, also entirely ignoring Extra and some other minor lore misunderstandings.
meh/10
Emiya Archer is a Counter Guardian and he's the first one with his Foster Father as Assassin Emiya, an Alter ver. of Emiya Archer who uses guns along with how messed up that Emiya was that end up as an Alter, and our recent Counter Guardian: Okita Souji Alter.
sakamoto ryouma is a counter guardian too
well at the end of UBW ep 25, Shirou is likely taking the path of Archer to become a hero of justice, he is wearing a cape and carrying on fulfilling his ideal. I may say he will become Archer eventually even though he already knew what would happen. The loop is true and that keeps going on. In heaven's feel, there is no loop, he changes his mind, so it's up to Shirou and Archer themself and their ideal to whether or not begining an infinite loop.
Wish they make an anime of Hero Spirit lores.
Im so curious of his encounters to the Heroes which he copied every single one of their weapon. He also mentioned Hector. etc. Heck time traveling Counter Guardian. I wanna see a series where counter Guardians story