Building science meets practical construction applications! Great overview. Our technical division was part of the team that helped get SIPS approved in the IRC/IBC in the late 70's, and have lived through projects where proper attention to detailing isn't adequately conducted by installers.Your simple points and key installation notes are extremely valuable! One thing to note, in many applications standard house wraps are acceptable, particularly on wall panels. However, in wetter/cold climates and low slope roofing we have technical bulletins that detail various assemblies and product options that can help with water management as your video mentions. Thank you for your expertise!
Some time ago Corbett Lunsford did a video on his Home performance RUclips channel about how you should avoid putting a tub/shower on an exterior wall (and especially if it's on an exterior corner) because of condensation issues. Architect Steve Baczek (also on RUclips) said that one of his contractors will build a second "inner wall" around the tub/shower (basically the entire "double wall" consists of exterior rockwool insulation, ZIP sheathing, 2x6 studs with Rockwool batts, interior Membrain barrier, 2x4 studs, cement board, tile) . If you have no other choice but to put the tub/shower on an exterior corner, how would you properly install it?
You make a very strong case against wood construction of any kind unless it's wood over concrete only on exterior surfaces for aesthetics and then have a good bank account to replace the rotted cladding every 2 years. Thanks for the tip.
If you want quality and are doing it yourself this isn't the way to go. Most DIY people don't know how easy it is to rent forms and pour concrete. Look up CIP, Cast In Place, Thermomass products. You pour you're exterior and interior surface and all insulation is in place in the walls. You just put a think coat of finish stucco over the concrete if you don't want exposed concrete. Time is going to be about the same as SIPs.
I have run into this issue working as the structural manager for roofing company. The two by eights that were part of each sip panel were completely rotted out. We we started putting full ice and water shield to keep the interior air from coming through and condensating underneath our vapor barrier. There’s nothing worse than doing a good job and then having someone thinking you’ve done something wrong and then trying to explain them it’s your house causing the issue.
I love the idea of the perfect wall are sips an alternative for the roof. I’m doing a timber frame house but absolutely hate the idea of using sips. But getting R60 with exterior insulation doesn’t seem possible with out sips
I was going to build my new house using SIPs, but for the reasons you describe about moisture, because I live in a very humid cold climate, I often to go stick frame.
Look up doing concrete walls with rigid insulation inside them. You can pour foundations your self. Forms are easy to rent. I'm a contractor and spec builder.
Question about using fluid applied membranes for your WRB. Is sealing all the seams with a wrb and then using tyvek to wrap the build a viable alternative? The cost of the fluid applied membrane is significantly higher, is there a downside to doing a hybrid approach?
Frankly, considering how expensive a sips solution is, it is rather ridiculous that the osb is not moisture sealed at the factory where it would be easiest and most consistent result. Yes, you’d have to paint every seam with sealant as the system was assembled- but that must be done anyway if anyone expects a 100 yr survival. I can’t image anyone investing this heavily in a structures’ efficiency if they aren’t expecting a very, very long lifespan.
Magnesium oxide (MGO) board structural insulated panels (SIPS) are a type of building panel that can be used for walls, ceilings, and floors in residential, commercial, industrial, and educational applications: Eco-friendly: Contain no organic solvents, heavy metals, asbestos, oils, or other toxic ingredients Energy efficient: Eliminate drywall, which reduces construction time and cost Water resistant: Can withstand harsh climate conditions Fire resistant: Have superior fire resistance compared to traditional fiber cement and OSB SIP panels Mold proof: Can withstand harsh climate conditions Hurricane and earthquake resistant: Can withstand harsh climate conditions Superior insulation: Offer superior insulation, structural strength, and air-tightness over traditional construction methods VOC-free: Off-gasses no volatile organic compounds (VOCs) Faster construction: Buildings made from SIPs are assembled significantly faster than stick-built homes Superior fire suppression: Offers superior fire suppression when compared to portland cement and OSB (oriented strand board)
I would like to see a video about climbing plants from you. I believe if you choose the right kind of climbing plant (one that can't attach to the wall using aerial roots but rather one that winds around a supporting structure, like ropes and grids), you can get the benefits of evaporative cooling in the summer without risking any damage to your wall. At least, that's what I concluded after my internet research. I would like to know your expert view on this! For central Europe (I chose to focus on native plants, I live in Germany), I have identified Clematis plants for walls not facing the sun directly and Lonicera caprifolium as a plant for walls getting lots of direct sunlight. Both do not attach to walls, as far as I've been able to find out.
Clematis do not damage the house. We have had Clematis growing up trellis structures against our house for decades. Not sure how much they will actually cool a building but I don't see how they can damage it really aside from perhaps debris accumulation (that could lead to rot) if they rest against low slope wood surfaces. Climbing roses also have had no negative effect for us, again, over decades.
@@jamesroscoe7555 Thank you for confirming that part! As for cooling: A) Less sunlight actually hits your house, but more importantly, B), plants evaporate water, which cools the surrounding air.
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 I agree with your points. Our Clematis plants haven't really grown vigorously enough to really shade that much, and are against a tall brick wall that soaks up the sun. In our climate (very cold winters, hot summers, Canada) they die back a fair bit in winter. It might work well if you can get them to shade a sizeable percentage of your wall though.
@@jamesroscoe7555 Try shading the parts of the Clematis that's close to the ground - they can grow well in direct sunlight, they just need a bit of shade down low.
Why do you use OSB instead of multiplex or cement based composite boards? If it rains during the construction that moisture is going to stay inside the construction once you seal it.
Can you provide references for this? Construction is full of expert opinions but I'm interested in the experiments and post mortems that led to these recommendations.
This article from Building Science Corporation is a good starting point: buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-036-complex-three-dimensional-air-flow-networks This is a more detailed report from the Cold Climate Housing Research Center: cchrc.org/media/SIPs_Report.pdf
It's not any worse than traditional stick framing. Possibly even better, because there is no cavity to act as a chimney and the foam itself does not sustain the flame because of additives, it only burns as long as there is something else burning it.
Magnesium oxide (MGO) board structural insulated panels (SIPS) Fire resistant: Have superior fire resistance compared to traditional fiber cement and OSB SIP panels
In my country, they install rigid foam insulation on the exterior side of SIPs, with vapour membrane in between. Wouldn't this be a better solution for managing moisture and condensation compared to relying on complex vapor control products and techniques?
I disagree using a fluid applied weather barrier. The issue is that with SIPs inside moisture will be drawn through the SIPs to exterior side OSB. the moisture will condense causing rot. For SIP you need to use a membrane with high perms rating so that moisture can escape. If the membrane is moisture impermeable, it will not allow moisture to escape. The Foam insulation used in SIP panels is moisture permeable. Using a fluid Applied non-permeable coating is just asking for trouble with SIP Panels. I recommend anyone considering SIP construction read the papers published by Building Science Corp first! FWIW: I would not recommend SIP walls, not only because of the moisture ot issue, but it makes it very difficult to install utilities in SIP walls (electrical, plumbing, data, etc). Your much better off using standard Stick frame construction such as 2x6 with 24" OC framing, Rockwool bats, Standard ZIP sheathing and exterior 2" Rigid foam insulation which will provide about R-30 for walls. The exterior Ridge foam insuluation will keep the shealthing warm & nearly eliminate moisture condensation on the sheathing. The Rockwool will allow any moisture in the wall cavity to escape. Beyond R-30 your just spending a lot of money for very little gain in performance. with R-30 walls most of your heat losses will be the windows & not the walls. If you insist on using SIP for wall construction I recommend using a High Perm membrane (Check with SIP mfg for recommendations), 1"x4" purlins (rain screen, with top & bottom venting along all of the SIP Walls so moisture can escape. Be sure to use screens on the vent openings to avoid Bugs & small rodents. The most practical use for SIP panels are for the Roof, covered with a high perms membrane that is nailed with cap nails. Topped off with a metal roof with 1"x4" purlins between the SIPs & the metal roof with a ridge cap vent. This will allow any moisture to escape & vent out during warm or sunny days. The other advantage is that during the summer time, the metal roof will be cooled by convection as hot air leaves through the ridge vent & pulls in cooler air from the soffits. The only non perms membrane should be installed along the edges of the roof where ice dams can form. For the roof edges you want to use a non-permeable membrane. The best option is to install the Ice & water membrane over the roof sections that overhang the top walls. Any moisture that occurs there can vent from the underside of the SIPs (Soffit side). I would not recommend a SIP roof without a vented roof. If you want to use a shingle roof, you need to the high perms membrane on the exterior SIP OSB, install purlins 1"x4", topped with plywood & then roofing membrane & shingles, with a ridge vent to allow moisture to escape. Do not nail Shingles directly to the SIP OSB because it will prevent moisture from escaping. The issue with SIP roofing is you still have a moisture problem, so you need a way for the moisture to escape to avoid Rot. Warm moist air will rise and collect in the SIP panels unless there is a way for the moisture to escape.
I never called for an impermeable fluid applied system. BSC has excellent papers though, the SIP roof failures in Juneau that I referenced is based on Joe Lstiburek's investigations on those roofs, hence the vented overroof mentioned. Perhaps rewatch the video ;)
@@ASIRIDesigns Most Fluid Applied products are impermeable, To be honest I don't know of a permeable fluid applied product. As far as the roof comments, I was referencing best practice from my experience, not a reflection on your video. as well as my explaining why SIP walls is not recommended.
No statistically every human doesnt have one testical. They have less than one. And since obviously you cant have a portion of one then statistically no one has testicles.
Thanks for this video. I would recommend an update to this video to include water mgmt for SIP construction in hot, humid climates (gulf south).
Excellent overview! As one of the oldest SIPS manufacturer of Premier SIPS we value the expertise of building science technical insights like these!
This channel is a diamond in the rough
Building science meets practical construction applications! Great overview. Our technical division was part of the team that helped get SIPS approved in the IRC/IBC in the late 70's, and have lived through projects where proper attention to detailing isn't adequately conducted by installers.Your simple points and key installation notes are extremely valuable! One thing to note, in many applications standard house wraps are acceptable, particularly on wall panels. However, in wetter/cold climates and low slope roofing we have technical bulletins that detail various assemblies and product options that can help with water management as your video mentions. Thank you for your expertise!
Some time ago Corbett Lunsford did a video on his Home performance RUclips channel about how you should avoid putting a tub/shower on an exterior wall (and especially if it's on an exterior corner) because of condensation issues. Architect Steve Baczek (also on RUclips) said that one of his contractors will build a second "inner wall" around the tub/shower (basically the entire "double wall" consists of exterior rockwool insulation, ZIP sheathing, 2x6 studs with Rockwool batts, interior Membrain barrier, 2x4 studs, cement board, tile) .
If you have no other choice but to put the tub/shower on an exterior corner, how would you properly install it?
Always in joy watching
And learning from you
thanks for sharing. ill be starting to assemble mine in a few weeks
You make a very strong case against wood construction of any kind unless it's wood over concrete only on exterior surfaces for aesthetics and then have a good bank account to replace the rotted cladding every 2 years.
Thanks for the tip.
I would like to hire you in conjunction with my architect to spec out passive house details and eco-friendly materials (sealants, tapes, etc.)
Me too, I have reached out to so many builders and architects and none get back to me.
Thanks for posting this. I'm actually preparing to build a sips home and this answered some of the questions I had about sealing and vapor barriers. 👌
If you want quality and are doing it yourself this isn't the way to go.
Most DIY people don't know how easy it is to rent forms and pour concrete.
Look up CIP, Cast In Place, Thermomass products. You pour you're exterior and interior surface and all insulation is in place in the walls.
You just put a think coat of finish stucco over the concrete if you don't want exposed concrete.
Time is going to be about the same as SIPs.
I have run into this issue working as the structural manager for roofing company. The two by eights that were part of each sip panel were completely rotted out.
We we started putting full ice and water shield to keep the interior air from coming through and condensating underneath our vapor barrier.
There’s nothing worse than doing a good job and then having someone thinking you’ve done something wrong and then trying to explain them it’s your house causing the issue.
I love the idea of the perfect wall are sips an alternative for the roof. I’m doing a timber frame house but absolutely hate the idea of using sips. But getting R60 with exterior insulation doesn’t seem possible with out sips
I was going to build my new house using SIPs, but for the reasons you describe about moisture, because I live in a very humid cold climate, I often to go stick frame.
Look up doing concrete walls with rigid insulation inside them.
You can pour foundations your self. Forms are easy to rent.
I'm a contractor and spec builder.
Question about using fluid applied membranes for your WRB. Is sealing all the seams with a wrb and then using tyvek to wrap the build a viable alternative? The cost of the fluid applied membrane is significantly higher, is there a downside to doing a hybrid approach?
Why aren’t SIPs precoated with weather barrier? Or why isn’t the exterior skin material moisture proof? Seems like a gap.
Some manufacturers are using Zip-R sheathing for the outside layer.
Came to the comments to ask about this exactly, if any manufacturers are using zip-r or similar. Good to know!
Frankly, considering how expensive a sips solution is, it is rather ridiculous that the osb is not moisture sealed at the factory where it would be easiest and most consistent result. Yes, you’d have to paint every seam with sealant as the system was assembled- but that must be done anyway if anyone expects a 100 yr survival. I can’t image anyone investing this heavily in a structures’ efficiency if they aren’t expecting a very, very long lifespan.
Magnesium oxide (MGO) board structural insulated panels (SIPS) are a type of building panel that can be used for walls, ceilings, and floors in residential, commercial, industrial, and educational applications:
Eco-friendly: Contain no organic solvents, heavy metals, asbestos, oils, or other toxic ingredients
Energy efficient: Eliminate drywall, which reduces construction time and cost
Water resistant: Can withstand harsh climate conditions
Fire resistant: Have superior fire resistance compared to traditional fiber cement and OSB SIP panels
Mold proof: Can withstand harsh climate conditions
Hurricane and earthquake resistant: Can withstand harsh climate conditions
Superior insulation: Offer superior insulation, structural strength, and air-tightness over traditional construction methods
VOC-free: Off-gasses no volatile organic compounds (VOCs)
Faster construction: Buildings made from SIPs are assembled significantly faster than stick-built homes
Superior fire suppression: Offers superior fire suppression when compared to portland cement and OSB (oriented strand board)
I would like to see a video about climbing plants from you. I believe if you choose the right kind of climbing plant (one that can't attach to the wall using aerial roots but rather one that winds around a supporting structure, like ropes and grids), you can get the benefits of evaporative cooling in the summer without risking any damage to your wall. At least, that's what I concluded after my internet research. I would like to know your expert view on this!
For central Europe (I chose to focus on native plants, I live in Germany), I have identified Clematis plants for walls not facing the sun directly and Lonicera caprifolium as a plant for walls getting lots of direct sunlight. Both do not attach to walls, as far as I've been able to find out.
Clematis do not damage the house. We have had Clematis growing up trellis structures against our house for decades. Not sure how much they will actually cool a building but I don't see how they can damage it really aside from perhaps debris accumulation (that could lead to rot) if they rest against low slope wood surfaces. Climbing roses also have had no negative effect for us, again, over decades.
@@jamesroscoe7555 Thank you for confirming that part! As for cooling: A) Less sunlight actually hits your house, but more importantly, B), plants evaporate water, which cools the surrounding air.
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 I agree with your points. Our Clematis plants haven't really grown vigorously enough to really shade that much, and are against a tall brick wall that soaks up the sun. In our climate (very cold winters, hot summers, Canada) they die back a fair bit in winter. It might work well if you can get them to shade a sizeable percentage of your wall though.
@@jamesroscoe7555 Try shading the parts of the Clematis that's close to the ground - they can grow well in direct sunlight, they just need a bit of shade down low.
Why do you use OSB instead of multiplex or cement based composite boards? If it rains during the construction that moisture is going to stay inside the construction once you seal it.
Can you provide references for this? Construction is full of expert opinions but I'm interested in the experiments and post mortems that led to these recommendations.
This article from Building Science Corporation is a good starting point: buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-036-complex-three-dimensional-air-flow-networks
This is a more detailed report from the Cold Climate Housing Research Center: cchrc.org/media/SIPs_Report.pdf
Are there SIP products made of plywood rather than osb to ameliorate some of the moisture sensitivity? Or is the adhesive bonding too difficult?
Yes they do exist, but you still want to keep those panels as dry as possible.
@@ASIRIDesigns I'd be interested in your opinions on magnesium oxide panels, both as the integrated sheathing in SIP's, and in other applications.
How about flammability? Once a fire starts does it rush through the walls as all the foam melts?
It's not any worse than traditional stick framing. Possibly even better, because there is no cavity to act as a chimney and the foam itself does not sustain the flame because of additives, it only burns as long as there is something else burning it.
Magnesium oxide (MGO) board structural insulated panels (SIPS)
Fire resistant: Have superior fire resistance compared to traditional fiber cement and OSB SIP panels
In my country, they install rigid foam insulation on the exterior side of SIPs, with vapour membrane in between. Wouldn't this be a better solution for managing moisture and condensation compared to relying on complex vapor control products and techniques?
I disagree using a fluid applied weather barrier. The issue is that with SIPs inside moisture will be drawn through the SIPs to exterior side OSB. the moisture will condense causing rot. For SIP you need to use a membrane with high perms rating so that moisture can escape. If the membrane is moisture impermeable, it will not allow moisture to escape. The Foam insulation used in SIP panels is moisture permeable. Using a fluid Applied non-permeable coating is just asking for trouble with SIP Panels.
I recommend anyone considering SIP construction read the papers published by Building Science Corp first!
FWIW: I would not recommend SIP walls, not only because of the moisture
ot issue, but it makes it very difficult to install utilities in SIP walls (electrical, plumbing, data, etc). Your much better off using standard Stick frame construction such as 2x6 with 24" OC framing, Rockwool bats, Standard ZIP sheathing and exterior 2" Rigid foam insulation which will provide about R-30 for walls. The exterior Ridge foam insuluation will keep the shealthing warm & nearly eliminate moisture condensation on the sheathing. The Rockwool will allow any moisture in the wall cavity to escape. Beyond R-30 your just spending a lot of money for very little gain in performance. with R-30 walls most of your heat losses will be the windows & not the walls.
If you insist on using SIP for wall construction I recommend using a High Perm membrane (Check with SIP mfg for recommendations), 1"x4" purlins (rain screen, with top & bottom venting along all of the SIP Walls so moisture can escape. Be sure to use screens on the vent openings to avoid Bugs & small rodents.
The most practical use for SIP panels are for the Roof, covered with a high perms membrane that is nailed with cap nails. Topped off with a metal roof with 1"x4" purlins between the SIPs & the metal roof with a ridge cap vent. This will allow any moisture to escape & vent out during warm or sunny days. The other advantage is that during the summer time, the metal roof will be cooled by convection as hot air leaves through the ridge vent & pulls in cooler air from the soffits. The only non perms membrane should be installed along the edges of the roof where ice dams can form. For the roof edges you want to use a non-permeable membrane. The best option is to install the Ice & water membrane over the roof sections that overhang the top walls. Any moisture that occurs there can vent from the underside of the SIPs (Soffit side).
I would not recommend a SIP roof without a vented roof. If you want to use a shingle roof, you need to the high perms membrane on the exterior SIP OSB, install purlins 1"x4", topped with plywood & then roofing membrane & shingles, with a ridge vent to allow moisture to escape. Do not nail Shingles directly to the SIP OSB because it will prevent moisture from escaping.
The issue with SIP roofing is you still have a moisture problem, so you need a way for the moisture to escape to avoid Rot. Warm moist air will rise and collect in the SIP panels unless there is a way for the moisture to escape.
I never called for an impermeable fluid applied system. BSC has excellent papers though, the SIP roof failures in Juneau that I referenced is based on Joe Lstiburek's investigations on those roofs, hence the vented overroof mentioned. Perhaps rewatch the video ;)
@@ASIRIDesigns Most Fluid Applied products are impermeable, To be honest I don't know of a permeable fluid applied product.
As far as the roof comments, I was referencing best practice from my experience, not a reflection on your video. as well as my explaining why SIP walls is not recommended.
Magnesium oxide (MGO) board structural insulated panels (SIPS)
Water resistant: Can withstand harsh climate conditions
No statistically every human doesnt have one testical. They have less than one. And since obviously you cant have a portion of one then statistically no one has testicles.