I used to use Instagram more for the community aspect to meet other photographers and artists but I stopped using because it feels like that aspect is even dead. I see more ads and posts and reels from people I don’t care about or have no connection to my interests than anything else. I don’t think I’ll be using Vero either. Social media used to be fun, easy and most importantly SOCIAL. Now it feels like a full time job and I don’t have time for that.
the days where instagram felt like a community are long gone, never to return. and honestly, i dont think any single app in the future is going to be able to replace it because the general zeitgeist of the land of creators and photographers has changed so drastically since then. perhaps people might make connections in smaller communities, but i don't expect we'd go back to the good ol days unfortunately.
Thanks for the thoughtful breakdown Pat! I joined Vero a little over a month ago and agree with your description of the experience. The relative quietness compared to IG is really striking which I've come to welcome. The IG algorithm is so aggressive with its constant force-feeding. It is a welcome break. I found a partial substitute to the algorithm in searching hashtags and discovering new photographers and images that way. You are spot on that it is definitely not the 1-stop social and photography platform. It is my photo niche; another piece in my constellation of social media. For me that's ok because I feel it is the best app I've tried to enjoy being a photo-nerd. It is hands down my favorite way to consume photography (though I haven't tried the others you referred to much). I love that any crop is welcome, that the photos are higher res and can fill a monitor, and I can interact via my computer! Plus sharing my photography on Vero is SO much easier than IG and others. I have enjoyed it as an oasis of photography. But like you, I miss my friends there. So, Vero will complement rather than replace for now.
Perfectly said as usual. Exactly my experience with VERO. I really think the whole social media sharing has diluted the art of photography a little bit. It’s wonderful to share my images with people; to show my vision of the world. I absolutely don’t waste time striving for likes and followers on social media. It seems like, if you want a ton of likes, just post a photo of a pretty person in a swimsuit and boom - 500 likes + thank you for all you do to push our art form forward 👍
Currently trying VERO and yeh, feels like a 1 way channel. Not the community we long for that used to exist on Insta. I followed the herd blaming the algorithm for not seeing locals and the photographers work i loved. But when I went through my following list I actually found a lot hadn’t posted in a year or two. End result I removed over 100 accounts to follow and can’t help but wonder how much the last 2years of events have led to people stop shooting for one reason or another. So not the algorithms fault, the content isn’t there to begin with!
Instagram is on the market for quite some time now compared to Vero. Developing an app takes time and resources. Instagram didn't become the app we all know in a day, same for Vero so give it time. Personally, I like Vero more than Insta, because it suits ME better.
While your points are valid. They're from the perspective of a photographer that's already established a healthy community on multiple platforms. With that viewpoint in mind, yes, Vero doesn't really offer you that much. However, if you don't have a community and are just starting out, Vero feels the best. Sure, theres better platforms that "look" better and have better monetization features. But Vero gives you the feeling that your work is actually being seen. And when you're just starting out, that's important. Otherwise there's no drive to improve or grow. When you start on Flickr, twitter, or insta, you don't get that feeling. You learn quickly that you need to create content for trends and for some folks, thats just not for them. Great video, looking forward to more :)
something i think you don't realise is that just because i have a community, that doesn't mean that i'm looking for apps *to* specifically build community. i've been through the booms and busts of many photography apps that have come and gone in the many years that i've been a photographer, and i can tell you now, that even what you're talking about - what you're searching for - can be found executed in a much more holistic and photographer-friendly approach than what Vero is doing. a great example of this is EyeEm. that's probably the closest thing to what i think Vero is trying to do, but rather than spending time on Vero, in my opinion just skipping straight to EyeEm (or even 500px or Glass) is a much better alternative.
@@patkay Thanks for the recommendations. I actually do understand your logic. However it is worth pointing out, that when people start taking photos, their raw intentions is to get their work seen. Their eager to impress and to refine their style. Naturally, you've been doing this for awhile and your priorities on your work and how to share your work has changed compared to when you started. You know your worth and you know your style. That's great. What I'm trying to say is that while Vero might not be best for folks of your expirience level, it is great for people starting out. Sure Vero might not be a long term solution, but its a place where you can gain confidence and grow as an artist.
Great video Pat. I have also been trialling Vero and like it for the same reasons you do. But the engagement problem you raise is spot on. I have tried to engage with people on there, asking questions about images, but people seem reluctant to chat and I didn't know why until you mentioned finding it difficult! In general people don't seem to follow back very much and it feels as though many people are using it as a publishing showcase, not a genuine community. I hope they solve it, because I like it very much!
yeah it's a shame really. but also honestly, in my opinion, apps like EyeEm and Flickr offer much nicer experiences, but we'll see how it all unfolds hey!
Pixelfed, is what Instagram used to be... Very community driven and decentralized. Being decentralized you actually have a variety of communities to join, yet still free to explore the others. No big tech, no ads. You can even create your own server if you wanted more control. It Maybe worth a look.......
i think i'd have to disagree with you there. i don't see any risk at all in doing any kind of social media, and the reward varies depending on many factors. but whatever you believe is ultimately up to you!
I’ve been using it for about three weeks and find it quite sterile If that’s the right word to use. I had no expectations from this app, just wanted something new to try and you’re absolutely right, different strokes for different folks.
yeah, i totally know what you mean by sterile. in some cases i dont think some of the UI just in general is very pretty at all haha. definitely different strokes for different folks
I appreciate your honesty and focus on how everyone has different goals, and expectations which each individual platform. Its always good to have this kind of perspective
@@patkay valid point. I feel as though they’re trying to be a Jack of all Trades and a Master of None. I think I’ll have to take it upon myself to build another app, this time strictly for photography. Instagram 2.0, if you will…only THIS TIME: WE rule not algorithms or board members.
great points and always well articulated Pat! I think what kills it for me is like you said my friends aren't on there and those people are the people who I want to share my work/adventures with the most anyway...
So true. I also feel VERO engagement is more authentic and less fake than on IG.. but the community is so small, it doesn't feel like it's worth the effort.
I joined VERO so I could post my black and white photos it’s for my enjoyment but to be honest it has been pretty much forgotten. Twitter is the platform I use daily.
I jumped on Vero way back when it first started - I was hoping it would become a viable alternative to IG without all of the baggage that comes with advertising (it was set to be a paid platform, not driven by ads). It started strong, but (fairly or unfairly) it got backlashed by a few prominent social media voices; that spread and pretty soon people became suspicious of it and started avoiding it. I suspect most of the hand-wringing was unfounded, but the damage was done. Vero never became what it was designed to be. Which is a damn shame, because I think that their apps are rather well designed and they do a good job of supporting device ecosystems (Vero's iPad app is great, whereas Instagram's... is still nonexistent). The apps feel like they are designed to support the users instead of advertising overlords. But over time the new posts on my feed dwindled, and I got to where I would only check in on it every few months. I recently opened up the app again just to see if there are signs of life and yeah, I saw posts from 2019 at the top of my feed. Damn shame. The world could really use something like it right now, as IG has continued its long, slow strangulation of photographers and artists in favor of more cash-grabby media.
I've had a lot of photographers with really great photos follow me on Vero. But none of them have liked or commented on any of my photos. If I'm following someone and like a photo they post I "like" it. To me this feels like photogs wanting to get people to follow them back only, they aren't actually engaging with me or even looking at my photos. I have liked others photos but they haven't liked any of mine, yet they follow me. I've even commented on a few and it's rare I get a "Thanks" or anything back. I get almost no interaction, and that's not what I'm interested in for a social platform. I get more interaction on Flickr. There are some photographers I follow on Vero who do engage with me, but that's a very small handful. And as you said, there are only photographers on Vero, none of my non-photographer friends are there. I like seeing what's going on with them, seeing their non-professional photos, stories, etc. I've got nothing against Vero, it's just not a place for me. I don't like Instagram's algorithm. I want to see more of the people I follow in my feeed instead of who Instagram things I should see, and I REALLY want an option to see it chronologically. But I do enjoy having SOME suggested posts, I have found some really great people that way. I just wish they had more options for letting me decide how I want to use Instagram. I realize Instagram has been around a LOT longer than Vero. It's entirely possible in a year Vero will be a different place and I'll be liking it a lot more. For now, I'll be mainly posting on Instagram, and posting on Vero when I remember.
I used vero for literally three days, I hadn’t seen any videos or posts about vero so I had no preconceived ideas of what is was going to be. In the three days I only saw three other photographers posts, all other posts were from vero, no feedbacks no comments, yes I did get a couple of likes, so it wasn’t that, there just isn’t a community there. Not for me..
I dont think it speaks vol on the stage of it. It just shows they care and want real user’s experience and opinions to create something we want. I wish larger platforms did this.
I also tried VERO for 30 days, and I got more followers, likes and engagement on VERO this 30 days then I had on Instagram since this February this year.
The thing that annoys me about Instagram is the recommendations and lack of chronology, to a point where I NEVER see posts from my friends and my favourite creators. Like ever. I am someone who enjoys watching Reels and do not mind seeing them at all, I just don’t want them to be prioritized above still photos.
If you're looking for a portfolio/pro photography I think any of these networks are the wrong place. What I dislike about Vero is not having it on a browser and the Android app is unstable. That being said, I don't like being bombarded with crap, algorithms are welcomed only as long as they work based on what I like and not what "they" want me to see. So as long as Vero keeps growing, specially outside photography, I'm okay with the flaws. I'm using FB only for messenger (the "Where my friends are." issue solved) and events ("Where my friends will be" is also relevant and unique to FB), skipping the feed entirely. Insta only value for me is in non-work related photographers that are still posting there, nothing else (and the feed is useless, on my browser I added a shortcut to the "Following" page directly, that's it). Twitter has too much adds, suggestions and no galleries, but for community purpose it works I guess.
I was excited to try VERO and posted daily on both Instagram and VERO for a month but I find myself not bothering with VERO anymore because I found there was even less growth there for me. Unfortunately I think an algorithm is necessary. Ultimately I think instagram could make everyone happy over night if they just let people toggle reels or stills…let people fine tune what the algorithm feeds us.
yeah they've definitely got a lot of work to do, that's for sure. if it helps, you can actually disable being suggested reels in the little menu on a reel next time. that helps a lot
I know quite a few people who have joined Vero over the last couple months but pretty much all of them stopped using the app within a month. That's usually not a good sign for any social media.
Thanks for the Vero video. I am on board most of what you said. I am photographer hobbyist. I went to Vero to see photographer only community. Similar to 500px and Flickr. I found it weird that communities are hashtags. You can't join black and white group but you need to find correct hashtag or the guy managing it. You can't follow hashtags either. I find it confusing. App in Android is laggy. I can't really tell if it has loaded the latest photos. Since it might show days old ones. Then I refresh and I get perhaps the latest, todays photos. I think you are correct about business. No customer is there for the most part. That's easy to see why. People know IG and FB. Vero is unknown. Actually in Finnish language Vero means taxes. Who wants to download IRS app? I know we are small country but it doesn't help 😁. Here are good things. I really like how I get some comments and such things. On IG you are lucky to get likes from your family and friends. In that way I get some community feels. Vero has potential - Hopefully. I will keep using it but will revisit 500px and Flickr.
Valid points. And I agree with them. Sometimes I feel what you said about sending your posts to the void. But I also think that maybe you might not be the best person to compare the 2 apps. Don't get me wrong , but you are very big on Instagram, so you get a lot of engagement. You open Vero, and feel the difference. The best way to compare would be for you to create one new account on each platform, with no association with the previous accounts and try them. Hope you don't get me wrong with this opinion. Love your work 😊
How come on Instagram, I get Ad after Ad after Ad. I try to avoid them like the plague but there they are; after almost every single post. Why? It drives me nuts. I'm off now to watch another of your videos.
I'm still using both IG and VERO and will continue to do so. VERO has been around for years but sits deep in the shadow of IG, I think if enough people started using VERO it could be great. Hopefully VERO see's your video, this feedback could help them improve.
Pixelfed, is what Instagram used to be. Very community driven and decentralized. Being decentralized you actually have a variety of communities to join, yet still free to explore the others. No big tech, no ads. You can even create your own server if you wanted more control. It Maybe worth a look.......
So essentially you don't like it because it doesn't have stories and there is no one who you care for, but from a photography standpoint, it works just fine. What did you expect really?
I see that your channel is precious. I would love to repost your whole channel, without changing anything, on the nice platform named Ganjing World. If you agree with that, please let me know. Thanks!
I love this, Pat, it's spot on with my experience too. And Stories are what keep me on Instagram! It's also what makes it come in just ahead of Tiktok.
@@jaughnekow well if you like necrophilia it's ok to deal with dead product. Here is official statement from their page - "Since VSCO Film has been discontinued as of March 1, 2019, VSCO Support will no longer provide any technical support for the product."
🙂I didn't think it was a smart idea to complete cut himself off from IG for this experiment. I think that influence his feelings more than he knows. I think he should have done a more balanced approach to his experiment. Vero isn't as mature as IG is today. Not a really fair comparison between the two because of IG has a greater head start in the SM game. IG has evolved into an Tiktok copycat app whereas Vero is more like what IG could have become. But I really see both SM apps fill the need of two nearly completely industries although they share some similarities. I had signed up for Vero when it was released and found it to be a duplicate of IG. So I stopped using it thinking that IG would offer similar features. It didn't move in that direction now that Meta was the new owners. Having revistied Vero I found it has much that is missing from IG's current offerings. While I make several videos, I like to focus on my photography more as I find I'm best working with one frame at a time. To create videos as good as my photography takes a whole team of people which I just don't have the budget for. I'm going to keep IG as my simple to access portfolio but not using as my main app. I will retain it because well everyone is using it. No sense having future clients downloading yet another app. So I've decided to use Vero as my main portfolio to show from my phone or laptop. IG will come second.....☺
i think that's because tumblr has had a very bumpy up and down ride over the years, and as it now tries to restablish itself into relevance, i don't know if people are ready to give it a chance yet unfortunately.
I don’t have a problem with Instagram for photography because for me it’s fun first and a few side jobs. But 40% of Instagram is politics for me and there censorship disgusts me. So I am truly hoping Musks deal with Twitter goes through since he said he is now going to buy it. That’s a platform I can then give a go on with true free expression.
I still don't understand recommending Twitter for photos. I see this comes only from RUclipsrs. I don't see any big engagement on Twitter, numbers are small. Probably just popular RUclipsrs are popular on Twitter because they are RUclipsrs. I still use 500px and instagram, I would be happy to find any alternatives but I still don't see them. I understand RUclips and Twitter works for some people but I don't see how it could help me.
Its interesting that you mention that you actually like having the algorithm push content on Instagram to you but there is the flip side of the coin in that when you post an image, how do you know that all your followers will see that image, how do you know your content is not being swamped with what the algorithm is push to your followers? I bet 70% of the content on my feed is either random photographers/video I'm not interested in or adverts for things that are totally irrelevant to me, so if you post an image, you are instantly fighting with all that noise to be seen. Yes there is the joy of occasionally dropping on a new and exciting photographer but for me that is completely overshadowed by all the chaff I have to wade through. And re missing what people are posting about their every day lives....that's not the apps fault, imho its not designed or intended to be used for that sort of "facebook lite" social engagement. Vero is like Instagram was at day 1 (and probably any other photo sharing app), it requires the motivation to engage with people, to go and seek out other photographers you like (the recommendation process is great for opening up new people to you) and to build that little community. Its not an app where you are spoon fed content in the guise of keeping you on the app so you keep scrolling and see more adds and keep scrolling....and on it goes. I spend far less time on Vero than I ever did on Instagram but I would happily say I get far more enjoyment from scrolling through my Vero feed than Instagram now.
Feel the same way about IG. Feels like handling a tamagotchi back in the days, but now with the 'new' models to keep them alive. IG is more becoming a fake 'look at me, I can't do nothing, I have no brains, I have no creative interest ... I just show you how far I dear to go with showing my nude body' IG is more a promotion site for only fans 🤷 You have a new follower here and on IG 🙏
If Instagram goes the TIKTOK way with Video Only, then Vero is one of a very few options. Alot of photographers are creating accounts there in droves. Is it for me today probably not but will it be in the future it's looking likely. I actually like Flickr better than vero, I have an account on both. With Instagram your get penalized for everything you do, if you click like too much your penalized, if you follow too many people you get penalized, if you use too many of the same hastags or the wrong hashtag you get penalized just for using the platform. On Vero I don't use the phone App to post I use the PC version and it's a better experience for posting.
You are already successful in your career so the topic doesn't really suit you. VERO is very new and getting more popular cuz of it's simplicity. Instagram is all about business and video clips (TikTok 2.0)
I used to use Instagram more for the community aspect to meet other photographers and artists but I stopped using because it feels like that aspect is even dead. I see more ads and posts and reels from people I don’t care about or have no connection to my interests than anything else.
I don’t think I’ll be using Vero either.
Social media used to be fun, easy and most importantly SOCIAL. Now it feels like a full time job and I don’t have time for that.
the days where instagram felt like a community are long gone, never to return. and honestly, i dont think any single app in the future is going to be able to replace it because the general zeitgeist of the land of creators and photographers has changed so drastically since then. perhaps people might make connections in smaller communities, but i don't expect we'd go back to the good ol days unfortunately.
Thanks for the thoughtful breakdown Pat! I joined Vero a little over a month ago and agree with your description of the experience. The relative quietness compared to IG is really striking which I've come to welcome. The IG algorithm is so aggressive with its constant force-feeding. It is a welcome break. I found a partial substitute to the algorithm in searching hashtags and discovering new photographers and images that way.
You are spot on that it is definitely not the 1-stop social and photography platform. It is my photo niche; another piece in my constellation of social media. For me that's ok because I feel it is the best app I've tried to enjoy being a photo-nerd. It is hands down my favorite way to consume photography (though I haven't tried the others you referred to much). I love that any crop is welcome, that the photos are higher res and can fill a monitor, and I can interact via my computer! Plus sharing my photography on Vero is SO much easier than IG and others. I have enjoyed it as an oasis of photography. But like you, I miss my friends there. So, Vero will complement rather than replace for now.
Are you a photographer too Thomas Riera?
don't worry, Instagram will probably copy Vero's "close friends" functions 🤣🤣🤣 for me, the problem on Instagram now it's the number of fake accounts 😔
lmao, honestly, you're probably right 😂
Instagram already has a "close friends" function XD
@@Welshmanshots yes, but in vero there's 3 or 4 types
Your points are valid!:) And I do think from a business standpoint of view Instagram is the way to go. But as a consumer of social media, I love VERO.
fair enough!
Exactly
I second that…
Perfectly said as usual. Exactly my experience with VERO. I really think the whole social media sharing has diluted the art of photography a little bit. It’s wonderful to share my images with people; to show my vision of the world. I absolutely don’t waste time striving for likes and followers on social media. It seems like, if you want a ton of likes, just post a photo of a pretty person in a swimsuit and boom - 500 likes + thank you for all you do to push our art form forward 👍
Currently trying VERO and yeh, feels like a 1 way channel. Not the community we long for that used to exist on Insta.
I followed the herd blaming the algorithm for not seeing locals and the photographers work i loved. But when I went through my following list I actually found a lot hadn’t posted in a year or two. End result I removed over 100 accounts to follow and can’t help but wonder how much the last 2years of events have led to people stop shooting for one reason or another. So not the algorithms fault, the content isn’t there to begin with!
Instagram is on the market for quite some time now compared to Vero. Developing an app takes time and resources.
Instagram didn't become the app we all know in a day, same for Vero so give it time.
Personally, I like Vero more than Insta, because it suits ME better.
Vero was released SEVEN, going EIGHT years ago. How much time do they need…?
@@Totte.Lundgren As long as FB took time to become what it is now, as long as Instagram took time to become what it is now, so forth and so on
@@TheAfricanChronicles Vero released 5 years after Instagram. 5 years ago, Instagram was in its prime.
@@Totte.Lundgren every corporation is different, grows differently so their prime
While your points are valid. They're from the perspective of a photographer that's already established a healthy community on multiple platforms. With that viewpoint in mind, yes, Vero doesn't really offer you that much. However, if you don't have a community and are just starting out, Vero feels the best. Sure, theres better platforms that "look" better and have better monetization features. But Vero gives you the feeling that your work is actually being seen. And when you're just starting out, that's important. Otherwise there's no drive to improve or grow.
When you start on Flickr, twitter, or insta, you don't get that feeling. You learn quickly that you need to create content for trends and for some folks, thats just not for them.
Great video, looking forward to more :)
something i think you don't realise is that just because i have a community, that doesn't mean that i'm looking for apps *to* specifically build community. i've been through the booms and busts of many photography apps that have come and gone in the many years that i've been a photographer, and i can tell you now, that even what you're talking about - what you're searching for - can be found executed in a much more holistic and photographer-friendly approach than what Vero is doing. a great example of this is EyeEm. that's probably the closest thing to what i think Vero is trying to do, but rather than spending time on Vero, in my opinion just skipping straight to EyeEm (or even 500px or Glass) is a much better alternative.
@@patkay Thanks for the recommendations. I actually do understand your logic. However it is worth pointing out, that when people start taking photos, their raw intentions is to get their work seen. Their eager to impress and to refine their style.
Naturally, you've been doing this for awhile and your priorities on your work and how to share your work has changed compared to when you started. You know your worth and you know your style. That's great. What I'm trying to say is that while Vero might not be best for folks of your expirience level, it is great for people starting out. Sure Vero might not be a long term solution, but its a place where you can gain confidence and grow as an artist.
I agree
Great video Pat. I have also been trialling Vero and like it for the same reasons you do. But the engagement problem you raise is spot on. I have tried to engage with people on there, asking questions about images, but people seem reluctant to chat and I didn't know why until you mentioned finding it difficult! In general people don't seem to follow back very much and it feels as though many people are using it as a publishing showcase, not a genuine community. I hope they solve it, because I like it very much!
yeah it's a shame really. but also honestly, in my opinion, apps like EyeEm and Flickr offer much nicer experiences, but we'll see how it all unfolds hey!
Pixelfed, is what Instagram used to be... Very community driven and decentralized. Being decentralized you actually have a variety of communities to join, yet still free to explore the others. No big tech, no ads. You can even create your own server if you wanted more control. It Maybe worth a look.......
I guess my problem with most social media atm is that it’s such a high risk and low reward especially for someone just starting out from 0.
i think i'd have to disagree with you there. i don't see any risk at all in doing any kind of social media, and the reward varies depending on many factors. but whatever you believe is ultimately up to you!
I’ve been using it for about three weeks and find it quite sterile If that’s the right word to use. I had no expectations from this app, just wanted something new to try and you’re absolutely right, different strokes for different folks.
yeah, i totally know what you mean by sterile. in some cases i dont think some of the UI just in general is very pretty at all haha. definitely different strokes for different folks
I appreciate your honesty and focus on how everyone has different goals, and expectations which each individual platform. Its always good to have this kind of perspective
i appreciate that you find it useful!
I feel as though we need to give it time so that gets some traction. It does have potential, I’ll give them that but they’re not there just yet.
i honestly don't know how much more time is reasonable though. they're an app that's already been around since 2015.
@@patkay valid point. I feel as though they’re trying to be a Jack of all Trades and a Master of None. I think I’ll have to take it upon myself to build another app, this time strictly for photography. Instagram 2.0, if you will…only THIS TIME: WE rule not algorithms or board members.
I can’t remember what the day is until Pat Kay posts. Now I know it’s Wednesday.
haha although last week i didn't post :(. hope you're on track for this week =P
great points and always well articulated Pat! I think what kills it for me is like you said my friends aren't on there and those people are the people who I want to share my work/adventures with the most anyway...
yeah i feel this the most out of all points i think. it was such a bummer when i first realised it
So true.
I also feel VERO engagement is more authentic and less fake than on IG.. but the community is so small, it doesn't feel like it's worth the effort.
thank you! your cons are actually pros in my case :)
I joined VERO so I could post my black and white photos it’s for my enjoyment but to be honest it has been pretty much forgotten. Twitter is the platform I use daily.
good to hear!
I jumped on Vero way back when it first started - I was hoping it would become a viable alternative to IG without all of the baggage that comes with advertising (it was set to be a paid platform, not driven by ads). It started strong, but (fairly or unfairly) it got backlashed by a few prominent social media voices; that spread and pretty soon people became suspicious of it and started avoiding it. I suspect most of the hand-wringing was unfounded, but the damage was done. Vero never became what it was designed to be. Which is a damn shame, because I think that their apps are rather well designed and they do a good job of supporting device ecosystems (Vero's iPad app is great, whereas Instagram's... is still nonexistent). The apps feel like they are designed to support the users instead of advertising overlords. But over time the new posts on my feed dwindled, and I got to where I would only check in on it every few months. I recently opened up the app again just to see if there are signs of life and yeah, I saw posts from 2019 at the top of my feed. Damn shame. The world could really use something like it right now, as IG has continued its long, slow strangulation of photographers and artists in favor of more cash-grabby media.
I've had a lot of photographers with really great photos follow me on Vero. But none of them have liked or commented on any of my photos. If I'm following someone and like a photo they post I "like" it. To me this feels like photogs wanting to get people to follow them back only, they aren't actually engaging with me or even looking at my photos. I have liked others photos but they haven't liked any of mine, yet they follow me. I've even commented on a few and it's rare I get a "Thanks" or anything back. I get almost no interaction, and that's not what I'm interested in for a social platform. I get more interaction on Flickr. There are some photographers I follow on Vero who do engage with me, but that's a very small handful. And as you said, there are only photographers on Vero, none of my non-photographer friends are there. I like seeing what's going on with them, seeing their non-professional photos, stories, etc. I've got nothing against Vero, it's just not a place for me. I don't like Instagram's algorithm. I want to see more of the people I follow in my feeed instead of who Instagram things I should see, and I REALLY want an option to see it chronologically. But I do enjoy having SOME suggested posts, I have found some really great people that way. I just wish they had more options for letting me decide how I want to use Instagram. I realize Instagram has been around a LOT longer than Vero. It's entirely possible in a year Vero will be a different place and I'll be liking it a lot more. For now, I'll be mainly posting on Instagram, and posting on Vero when I remember.
I used vero for literally three days, I hadn’t seen any videos or posts about vero so I had no preconceived ideas of what is was going to be.
In the three days I only saw three other photographers posts, all other posts were from vero, no feedbacks no comments, yes I did get a couple of likes, so it wasn’t that, there just isn’t a community there. Not for me..
Very fair review. Thanks for sharing.
I dont think it speaks vol on the stage of it. It just shows they care and want real user’s experience and opinions to create something we want. I wish larger platforms did this.
You nailed it.. perfect description of the experience
I also tried VERO for 30 days, and I got more followers, likes and engagement on VERO this 30 days then I had on Instagram since this February this year.
Damn… that’s actually really motivating to hear!
that's great for you! im glad. hopefully it continues too!
@@oOJampisOo that's rare
What platforms would you recommend for phot sharing?
Thank you for being honest
The thing that annoys me about Instagram is the recommendations and lack of chronology, to a point where I NEVER see posts from my friends and my favourite creators. Like ever. I am someone who enjoys watching Reels and do not mind seeing them at all, I just don’t want them to be prioritized above still photos.
So basically FOMO will always win. Once a social network is big enough, negative motivation will always win. Not being in is something to fear.
Thanks for this relevant video ! And I like the algorithm too :)
If you're looking for a portfolio/pro photography I think any of these networks are the wrong place. What I dislike about Vero is not having it on a browser and the Android app is unstable. That being said, I don't like being bombarded with crap, algorithms are welcomed only as long as they work based on what I like and not what "they" want me to see. So as long as Vero keeps growing, specially outside photography, I'm okay with the flaws. I'm using FB only for messenger (the "Where my friends are." issue solved) and events ("Where my friends will be" is also relevant and unique to FB), skipping the feed entirely. Insta only value for me is in non-work related photographers that are still posting there, nothing else (and the feed is useless, on my browser I added a shortcut to the "Following" page directly, that's it). Twitter has too much adds, suggestions and no galleries, but for community purpose it works I guess.
hi i am soumaya from algeria i love your channel and i love when i see you speak and smile i wish to see you all the time smile
Nice explanation Pat. All those 4 points that you've mentioned is true.
I was excited to try VERO and posted daily on both Instagram and VERO for a month but I find myself not bothering with VERO anymore because I found there was even less growth there for me. Unfortunately I think an algorithm is necessary. Ultimately I think instagram could make everyone happy over night if they just let people toggle reels or stills…let people fine tune what the algorithm feeds us.
yeah they've definitely got a lot of work to do, that's for sure. if it helps, you can actually disable being suggested reels in the little menu on a reel next time. that helps a lot
@@patkay thanks, I’ll give it a try!
I know quite a few people who have joined Vero over the last couple months but pretty much all of them stopped using the app within a month.
That's usually not a good sign for any social media.
sadly as shit as instagram is, it's still the best go to.
Vero is better as you don't have trolls on there unlike other social media
Nice IPhone 14 pro flex
haha thought it'd make a nice prop
if non-sexual nudity isn't allowed it's no dice for me. really tired of censorship for illustrators and photographers.
Vero looks like a Windows phone app from 5-8 years ago. I can't get over that UI. It's also slow and laggy, and that just puts me off.
Thanks for the Vero video. I am on board most of what you said. I am photographer hobbyist. I went to Vero to see photographer only community. Similar to 500px and Flickr. I found it weird that communities are hashtags. You can't join black and white group but you need to find correct hashtag or the guy managing it. You can't follow hashtags either. I find it confusing.
App in Android is laggy. I can't really tell if it has loaded the latest photos. Since it might show days old ones. Then I refresh and I get perhaps the latest, todays photos.
I think you are correct about business. No customer is there for the most part. That's easy to see why. People know IG and FB. Vero is unknown. Actually in Finnish language Vero means taxes. Who wants to download IRS app? I know we are small country but it doesn't help 😁.
Here are good things. I really like how I get some comments and such things. On IG you are lucky to get likes from your family and friends. In that way I get some community feels. Vero has potential - Hopefully. I will keep using it but will revisit 500px and Flickr.
thanks for sharing your experiences!
I started using VERO in 2018. 5 years later it's still the same: hardly anyone's there.
give it time, Instagram is slowly killing itself with his active woke bullshit agenda.
I commented on these exact things about why I'm not using Vero and I got so much hate that I had to delete my comment 😆
Valid points. And I agree with them. Sometimes I feel what you said about sending your posts to the void.
But I also think that maybe you might not be the best person to compare the 2 apps. Don't get me wrong , but you are very big on Instagram, so you get a lot of engagement. You open Vero, and feel the difference.
The best way to compare would be for you to create one new account on each platform, with no association with the previous accounts and try them.
Hope you don't get me wrong with this opinion. Love your work 😊
How come on Instagram, I get Ad after Ad after Ad. I try to avoid them like the plague but there they are; after almost every single post. Why? It drives me nuts. I'm off now to watch another of your videos.
What about Unsplash?
I'm still using both IG and VERO and will continue to do so. VERO has been around for years but sits deep in the shadow of IG, I think if enough people started using VERO it could be great. Hopefully VERO see's your video, this feedback could help them improve.
Pixelfed, is what Instagram used to be. Very community driven and decentralized. Being decentralized you actually have a variety of communities to join, yet still free to explore the others. No big tech, no ads. You can even create your own server if you wanted more control. It Maybe worth a look.......
So essentially you don't like it because it doesn't have stories and there is no one who you care for, but from a photography standpoint, it works just fine. What did you expect really?
i think the best way is to combine those two platforms
perhaps! and if it works for you then that's great!
I see that your channel is precious. I would love to repost your whole channel, without changing anything, on the nice platform named Ganjing World. If you agree with that, please let me know. Thanks!
thanks for this video, I’m following you on Vero
Use vero better than that horrible Instagram who won't give any views
First like. I KNOW it's going to be good :)
haha i hope you enjoyed it!
I love this, Pat, it's spot on with my experience too. And Stories are what keep me on Instagram! It's also what makes it come in just ahead of Tiktok.
I agree ☝️
I actually deleted my Instagram account. The ad's where too much.
VSCO is good too.
You should give it a try
yeah sure, it has been discontinued since 2019
if you like it then keep going at it!
@@EdBareff it hasn't. Still active.
@@jaughnekow well if you like necrophilia it's ok to deal with dead product.
Here is official statement from their page -
"Since VSCO Film has been discontinued as of March 1, 2019, VSCO Support will no longer provide any technical support for the product."
@@EdBareff does updates fall under support?
🙂I didn't think it was a smart idea to complete cut himself off from IG for this experiment. I think that influence his feelings more than he knows. I think he should have done a more balanced approach to his experiment.
Vero isn't as mature as IG is today. Not a really fair comparison between the two because of IG has a greater head start in the SM game. IG has evolved into an Tiktok copycat app whereas Vero is more like what IG could have become. But I really see both SM apps fill the need of two nearly completely industries although they share some similarities.
I had signed up for Vero when it was released and found it to be a duplicate of IG. So I stopped using it thinking that IG would offer similar features. It didn't move in that direction now that Meta was the new owners. Having revistied Vero I found it has much that is missing from IG's current offerings. While I make several videos, I like to focus on my photography more as I find I'm best working with one frame at a time. To create videos as good as my photography takes a whole team of people which I just don't have the budget for.
I'm going to keep IG as my simple to access portfolio but not using as my main app. I will retain it because well everyone is using it. No sense having future clients downloading yet another app. So I've decided to use Vero as my main portfolio to show from my phone or laptop. IG will come second.....☺
Flickr. The OG photography social media.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tumblr.
i think that's because tumblr has had a very bumpy up and down ride over the years, and as it now tries to restablish itself into relevance, i don't know if people are ready to give it a chance yet unfortunately.
@@patkay I can understand that.
ok i after u
I was avoiding this because I thought it was a joke, i dont think it’s a joke anymore 😅
haha sorry man. #realities
you're right. It's not for you.
You Mis the Point.
I don’t have a problem with Instagram for photography because for me it’s fun first and a few side jobs. But 40% of Instagram is politics for me and there censorship disgusts me. So I am truly hoping Musks deal with Twitter goes through since he said he is now going to buy it. That’s a platform I can then give a go on with true free expression.
I still don't understand recommending Twitter for photos. I see this comes only from RUclipsrs. I don't see any big engagement on Twitter, numbers are small. Probably just popular RUclipsrs are popular on Twitter because they are RUclipsrs.
I still use 500px and instagram, I would be happy to find any alternatives but I still don't see them. I understand RUclips and Twitter works for some people but I don't see how it could help me.
Its interesting that you mention that you actually like having the algorithm push content on Instagram to you but there is the flip side of the coin in that when you post an image, how do you know that all your followers will see that image, how do you know your content is not being swamped with what the algorithm is push to your followers? I bet 70% of the content on my feed is either random photographers/video I'm not interested in or adverts for things that are totally irrelevant to me, so if you post an image, you are instantly fighting with all that noise to be seen. Yes there is the joy of occasionally dropping on a new and exciting photographer but for me that is completely overshadowed by all the chaff I have to wade through.
And re missing what people are posting about their every day lives....that's not the apps fault, imho its not designed or intended to be used for that sort of "facebook lite" social engagement.
Vero is like Instagram was at day 1 (and probably any other photo sharing app), it requires the motivation to engage with people, to go and seek out other photographers you like (the recommendation process is great for opening up new people to you) and to build that little community. Its not an app where you are spoon fed content in the guise of keeping you on the app so you keep scrolling and see more adds and keep scrolling....and on it goes.
I spend far less time on Vero than I ever did on Instagram but I would happily say I get far more enjoyment from scrolling through my Vero feed than Instagram now.
Feel the same way about IG. Feels like handling a tamagotchi back in the days, but now with the 'new' models to keep them alive. IG is more becoming a fake 'look at me, I can't do nothing, I have no brains, I have no creative interest ... I just show you how far I dear to go with showing my nude body'
IG is more a promotion site for only fans 🤷
You have a new follower here and on IG
🙏
If Instagram goes the TIKTOK way with Video Only, then Vero is one of a very few options. Alot of photographers are creating accounts there in droves. Is it for me today probably not but will it be in the future it's looking likely. I actually like Flickr better than vero, I have an account on both. With Instagram your get penalized for everything you do, if you click like too much your penalized, if you follow too many people you get penalized, if you use too many of the same hastags or the wrong hashtag you get penalized just for using the platform. On Vero I don't use the phone App to post I use the PC version and it's a better experience for posting.
i hope it works out for you!
@@patkay Only time will tell
I'm curious what you think about glass.photo.
Way better. The prob is that Instagram is a social media app now not a photography portfolio...
never been on it, but i've heard good things!
You are already successful in your career so the topic doesn't really suit you. VERO is very new and getting more popular cuz of it's simplicity. Instagram is all about business and video clips (TikTok 2.0)
VERO is almost 9 years old!