Sorry it took me longer to get the video out - wanted to be 100% sure I'd tested it myself before I talked about it! 👌 To see my (extremely over-the-top) proposal video: ruclips.net/video/CKvZ9KhLgHE/видео.html
I honestly thought this was gonna take a negative turn. I have a new level of respect towards Arun now 🙏🏻 Thank you for being fair and doing proper research, twitter could never.
especially the part where he defends samsung by saying: "if it is overlay than u should be able to find the moon photo on the phone " 🤦 this is the dumbest thing i ever herd, but hey...if it fools the masses than yeah, good job
The biggest worry here, at least for me, is that most people just are not aware of how much processing occurs when they take photos on their phones. So, when Samsung advertises that it can take a clear moonshot, it gives the impression that the camera can capture, with clarity, objects as far away as the moon and this is supposed to be a next-gen mind-blowing feature that is supposed to give it a leg up on the competition. Tech nerds see through it but for average consumers, what might sway their decision making is supposed to be a general capability to shoot super clear shots for objects far away and that just is not present here. It's misleading marketing.
Well I actually used to have the Samsung s22 Ultra and I can for sure agree with the video that yes it is AI processing but still it can zoom and give you very clear images from very far away. Not just the moon. It still processes the picture after you've taken it but the result it's pretty crispy. I would 100% say that it has the best zoom quality in the market since I also do this job and I'm a technology consultant and I had the chance to compare almost every phone's camera.
@@ettadiam3466those zoomed inages arent crisp because the camera is good, its because every image taken with 10× + zoom has ai upscaling. For a normal person it wouldn't be visible, but graphic designers like me who upscale assets every now and then can clearly tell if a image is upscaled or not.
Say bullshit to make a company look bad? Yes. You can litterally turn of the scene optimiser and have raw photos without any ai interfering, the description of scene optimiser is litterally to tweak photos to make them look more appealing.
@@natman_bad Does it have a disclaimer that it affects moon photos to such an extent though? I mean if it doesn't, people definitely have the right to be surprised.
@@Scyth3934 If it has a disclaimer that states it improves pictures with ai that would be enough of a disclaimer. Samsung can't just smell that people like you are gonna cry about a feature you can just turn of.
Props to the AI developers, they've done a brilliant job here!! EDIT:- Stop the war! sorry if my statement doesn't match with some of your opinions.....
@@iTheGeo most phones already do that. If it were not for these algorithms our phones would literally be 10 years backward in terms of camera. There's only so much a small sensor can do in terms of capturing the environment
It's apple fan boys trying to take down samsung, in my channel I got 100% real pics of the moon, fr these apple users want samsung down [Not all, only the baised ones]
I think image processing and correction is fine as long as the photo takers have the option to decide between enhanced photos (for blurry text, things like removing wires, etc.) and genuine, authentic photos. Both have their place, and there are only issues when you're forced into the former without the option for the latter. Well, that and advertising software processing as high-quality optical cameras!
What is genuine, authentic photo? Every photo that you take using a smartphone is processed in some form or other. That is why Iphone and Samsung cameras are considered best in the smartphone market because of their better image processing.
I agree wholeheartedly... If I take a picture of my house to send to my friend it's cool that I can click a box and have all the power lines magically disappear... but, if I posted that picture on a real estate ad for the house, I would be guilty of false advertising
This is the BEST explanation and review of this whole "debacle" I've seen so far! Spot on! Completely agree with you - Sammy should not have marketed the feature the way they did; that is what made people feel cheated; however, at the end of the day, it's not faking results, but using AI to make them better...
I would just like to moon-tion that I loved all the cheesy moon puns. It was really de-moon-strative of Arun’s incredible moon-tal capacity for top quality jokes that make us giggle
Ever since cameras have to make an interpretation of the colors and light from film days, there has always been a matter of subjetivity in the maker of the film, sensors and now AI. It's kind of hard to know where the limit is tho. The good thing is that some manufacturers are giving the option to turn off, and you can always use RAW if you want none of it.
Indeed. And even de-mosaicing is inventing some detail that isn't there: camera sensors don't record full colour in every pixel, half the pixels record in green, a quarter of them record in red and a quarter of them record in blue. An algorithm has to be used to guess the best full colour value to output for each pixel based on that.
@Barney Laurance but it is there. It's not making stuff out of nothing. If i took the moon photo and it just added a crater that doesn't even exist on the moon, then I'd be pissed. You know what's faking? It's when i go to sight seeing looking at the pictures taken by the professional photographer on some tourism magazine only to find out how underwhelming it is. That's faking. If the phone's AI wanst enhancing, adding in details then let's be real we would be adding it ourselves in post.
Just got my S23 Ultra recently. I love the camera setup and how instant photos taken in a rush turn out looking far better than I expected. I don't mind the subtle tweaks at all and if it makes an image look better and closer to my reality, well then why not? I'd rather look back on good photos than bad, blurred ones. Great video Arun, always enjoy all your content :)
bases on the replies by the fanboys, they still thinking it can take actual moon photos. like "actual" meaning, how it looks like exactly, not with extra details added.
@@Luccplay well to be fair, an airplane is in a lit sky with lots of distortion and light pollution while the moon is it's own "lightsource" against a mostly black background. So it's not that big a stretch as you think. And I've shot 80x zoom photos with my s22 ultra where I could read the registration number off the plane as well.
I do think the amount of processing that is happening, needs to be more clearly advertised. I noticed it in holiday snaps actually, taken by a friend’s phone…where I looked consistently pretty good, to the point where I was starting to get suspicious. I then made a conscious effort to take similar pics with my own camera - both back and portrait mode and started seeing some real differences between all three. There was clearly a wide variety of filtering happening between shots. I don’t mind, but I do wish to be told and have the option to turn it off. If I want to Instagram filter my face, then that’s what I’ll do…
Yeah. Once I literally zoomed in. And I barely took a second to take a pic of the moon. I saw the image came out blown out and blurry because I moved the phone as it took the image. But it was still processing. Then it spit out a cripsy clear moon image out of nowhere. The file size was only 400kbs 💀
Good point. Perhaps this is just marking a shift in making phone cameras work more similarly to how our brains perceive the world and less like how traditional photography has captured it. There are certainly pros and cons to both approaches.
I can't decide how I feel about this. I mean from a photography perspective there is something really special about truly capturing your own detail of the moon. But then again I also sometimes end up stacking tons of images and altering what I originally saw by bringing out colours in the moon. Either way, awesome video and technology is insane! Haha
Same boat, but I think it's a marketing feature... You could take that AI model into any other phone and the result would be the same... so is not the S23U Camera hardware that is good they just the found a good marketing strategy doing it with the moon (which sound awesome to the public and is easy to implement)
a photographer can literally use expert raw or just simply turn off the image process and get their result if they don't want ai to alter stuff, I think the whole discussion is stupid, how could anyone think a photo with 10x optical lens capture 100x digital zoom pics with all realistic details in the pic, if you want a realistic result it is going to be a blurry mess. There are other phones with 10x optical zoom but only samsung can do the 100x digital zoom properly because of their proper AI model for upscaling these images.
@@ghfsd786fa nope the hardware is really good too . This only works like this on moon photos but when we even compare random things zoomed the s23 ultra is just better then the competition that's it .
My only question is who honestly for real really thought that they were taking a blurry picture of the Moon and without any kind of AI or possessing we're getting these super crisp pictures of the moon. I've had the s22 s23 and fold 4 and I could speak for myself and say I was able to tell right away that there was some kind of processing going on with the moon but you still need a camera capable of zooming in close enough and having a clear enough picture to be able to process to be that crisp. that's the feature
That’s incorrect. The debunking of this whole deceptive claim from Samsung shows it doesn’t need to be able to zoom in “close enough.” It’s substituted material. Don’t gaslight yourself.
Literally no, the video literally show how he printed a blurry no detail fake moon and your glorious features faked all the details. Its not a features its a scam brah
If it’s “processing” then you made a good point. But this behavior is no different, it basically took a perfect moon image and use AI to auto fit into the blurry image you take. That’s fundamentally different.
This was very informative. I have been a long term samsung fan and was worried when I saw this video. But you cleared it up for us. Thanks man, you've earned a sub.
Glad that Arun is investigating it in such detail. It can be great. Imagine added texture in leaves, flowers, clothes, paper, rocks, fur in your photos.
I think this is the thing. IF it could add details to everything, it wouldn't be a problem. You can compare the quality of the moon photos with all the other photos. But in this case, it only works with the moon and Samsung isn't communicating that it's limited to this. Regular people will most likely believe that they can get an equally good photo with the 100x zoom with any type of subject, which they can't.
@@torezgermy2 This is what I've been saying since forever!! Apple gets away with it by saying their camera "processing" and turning their photos into a "natural" look.
ohhhhh that is so shady...I have a few toes in the "they are tricking us" camp. Not rabidly but slightly in that direction. Your intrepid dedication to testing the hypothesis in such detail is truly chefs kiss!
It's no different than the filters used in social media. What's iffy about it is when it's used as marketing to trick the buyer into thinking it's a better camera. I personally think it's a good thing to be able to have and use when needed. The phone manufacturers just need to be honest about the feature's actual capabilities.
@@OzZy-13820exactly, I'll agree that it's cheap to advertise something that they taught it to cheat at... but it's such a cool feature to have that I don't want to buy a phone with less than 100x zoom now. It's like having a set of binoculars and a decent telephoto camera with you all the time. And I've gotten some really good photos with the main lenses that could rival a legit camera
@lukeaugustus2235 same, not only moon shots, but I've zoomed and caught details of trees, power lines running up the mountain behind my house that captured details you can't see with the naked eye. Gimmicky or not, it works and that's what matters.
@@OzZy-13820Then they should show that in their marketing - zoom into a dolphin leaping out the ocean far in the distance. Instead they said it can take photos of the moon with detail, and their cameras simply cannot.
The truth and honestly have gone out of style with the new generation. Lying, cheating are the norm. They then try to use word salad to defend the practice. I find it disgusting.
The reddit post experiment was already done by a Korean youtuber way back when the S20 Ultra came out. Samsung has always done this (and were pretty transparent about it) and in response to the controversy they explained that the 'fake moon' was just a byproduct of their computational photography engine since it does the same processing procedure like all the other photos. Dope video about the topic, though.
Thank you for pointing out that Samsung actually has trained AI to actually use the base photo to upscale it rather than just downloading some stock image. Most people would probably prefer an over-processed photo rather than the real thing because it looks way better.
These phones have the option to use raw photos. Anything over 20x zoom is digital zoom. Which mean it take a photo and than zoom in on that photo. With that said, a 50 megapixel lens has so much detail, that if you zoom in on it 40x it would still have a crisp image. Another thing, the s23 ultra also has a 200 mp lens. About the moon, read my previous comment.
I would prefer the AI-processed photos a majority of the time, I'm sure. However, Samsung needs to be super transparent to the user each time the AI is applied, perhaps naming the photo with a tag that makes it clear AI was used (not only clear to the person who took the photo, but to anyone they share it with). And a prompt should come up when the AI is about to be applied explaining how it works (what the result is, a partially AI-generated photo... versus what it isn't, a real photo with a basic filter). Imagine the person thinking a photo is real and it ends up in, say, a murder trial or used to portray an act of war... Or someone thinks their missing loved one has been found bc the AI superimposes their face on a zoomed-in stranger. The list goes on. The consequences could be dire. Full transparency by Samsung and full awareness for the end user are what's important here.
I agree... but I also think it's sad. If you WANT a nice photo of the moon then just download one. WHat is the benefit of pretending it came from your phone?
@@keithlevkoff8579 It DID come from your phone. Samsung is actually using what you took, just upscaling it. Not much different from how your photos are "improved" after you take them.
Thank you Arun! The work you put in and the points you made throughout were fantastic, seen so many negative comments and articles about this topic so it was great to actually watch you not just explain it but also give the pros and cons.
@indu adhikari 😅🤣 Literally hasn't said anything bad about them! Every major tech channel and websites have said worse, his views are natural in this video in my opinion. Maybe watch it again!
@@PracticallyAviation NO I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE VIDEO AGAIN!!!! ROTTEN APPLE PAID AND FED BOY TAKING ADVANTAGE MORE THAN NECESSARY OF WHAT NEWS ARE COMING OUT...I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND EVERY SINGLE MOBILE BRAND ENHANCE AI FOR BETTER PICTURE SO DO ROTTEN APPLE!!!! APPLE AND THEIR FED BARKING DOGS (YOU TUBER ARUN) NEED TO SEE THEIR FACE ON MIRROR PROPERLY THEN POINT FINGER TO OTHERS....I HOPE YOU ARE WISE ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT.
Your comment at the end about it being more authentic was truly on point and I think solved alot of the argument imo. We can't always want the newest phone but be mad when a company tries something new to make it even better. Like you said . We just needed communication.
AI is doing a fantastic job , but not only for the moon. If you go to a concert with your s23 ultra and you sit way at the back, you will have so much better quality on your fancams. Equally, if you zoom into a really far away sign that has writing on it, you will notice that after the image is processed, not only is it sharper, but it also turns the text readable and correct. What they've done with the camera on this phone is amazing.
Completely agree. I was able to test how good the processing was, I was able to read the use by date on a water bottle at 20m. I could barely read the smaller writing on the label haha
And this is why I will forever respect and support your content Arun. 100% honest and everything is backed by facts. I learn a lot from you. I don't think Samsung is "cheating" us, what they're doing is actually good for the future of software and AI.
The cheating part here is Arun... Because Samsung has admitted this before- years ago with the s20 range. Samsung users have been talking about it for years now... I first saw this in 2021, an article about the s21 base model doing this (I had an s20 so I went googling...) theres even a post on Samsungs online forum explaining exactly how the *software* works... This is something we already knew, it's not new, it's just surprising to those who were unaware...
@@soul-the_argonaut5211 While I don't agree attributing the cheating to Arun - you are right that this has been known for years. MKBHD actually this as well in his recent post about the S23 Ultra - that the tech has been around for years and that Samsung has been very transparent and forthcoming about it as well as how it works.
Well, I don't think that's a huge problem since it only kicks in when scene optimiser is turned on. The description for scene optimiser clearly states that it tweaks the photos to make them more appealing. If you want realistic photos, you shouldn't be using scene optimiser anyway. I would consider it to be a problem if it were replacing it with a stock photo. Since that's not what's happening here and it is just using AI to make the photo look more appealing just like the description says, I don't have a problem with it. Personally, I like realistic photos so I keep scene optimiser turned off.
Yep. And to be honest, if you don't want this behaviour in ANY shape or form, you shouldn't use smartphone cameras at all. Almost every device will have implemented this to some extent, and some are more clear about it (imo, Samsung is) than others.
Especially considering that pretty much every photo created from astrophotographers is edited in some way, may it be stacking, edited in lightroom or photoshop or both or other programs. That's just how appealing photos are created. All whats happening now is people realizing good photos are edited because raw photos just don't look good enough. They expect to photos automatically look beautiful, even when this isn't how it works.
No. The issue is Samsung is using this moon photo to advertise their camera capabilities, which is false advertising. If Samsung didn't false advertise and be honest about it, then it's completely fine.
I agree with the ending, I wouldn't mind as long as I can show a clearer memory to my friends and family. Talking from personal experience. I definitely don't like how they advertised it as if they were really taking pictures of the moon though, but with AI situations like this is always tricky with constant competitors.
@Trenrede Yeah, besides, I find it amazing that the stuff they developed could do so well in every scenario, even creating new craters on the surface of the moon. Imagine how long they worked on the algorithms for this kind of stuff.
I knew right away when I took my first moon shot with it. When you zoom in it suspiciously gets waay more clear than any other photo I take with the zoom. It's cool tech nonetheless I just wish Samsung didn't lie about it
I’m so proud of Arun, he was my top favorite channel two years ago, but now that I know he’s going to be 100% honest 90% of the time, I can trust and use the info he gives to say true information to tell my friends facts. True facts.
"It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good. They've done studies, you know. Sixty percent of the time, it works every time."
My Personal Hot Take: Mostly every single true professional photographer will end up doing major edits and photoshopping thier phone, less then 10% use true raw unedited photos. So this taking hassle out of it for casual and semi professional photographers is awesome, IMHP. Also I believe that a good 85% or more of true professionals , highend simi professionals, and a few casuals will already have a dedicated camera. So I don't see them really caring that much, JS.
After looking into it, it turns out that Samsung was up front about how their Scene Optimizer works. We just never cared. The AI features can be turned off pretty easily. The full article had apparently been in Korean though. And has since been translated into English since this controversy began.
This is why we watch you Arun. I was waiting for your take on this. I totally agree. I want my phone to take amazing pics, not pics that look like a 2009 phone camera because it's more accurate of what the optics sees. Also, this scene optimizer only works for the moon in that way. I can take a pic of a Totoya Camry from a mile away and it's not going to come out super crisp despite the world knowing exactly what that car is. If the AI can help to make the moon pic better then I'm all for it.
I think the problem is Samsung marketing it as a camera feature, not an AI feature that only works for the moon. If not for this mini "scandal" I would buy the phone for its camera, try to shoot some other thing from afar and be disappointed, not knowing what went wrong.
@@AugustoValentini samsung compared other phones to their phone based on this feature to show how good their cameras are, and now we know that it's not related to their cameras at all, it's just a ai trick, it's false advertising
I own an S22 Ultra, and while this Moon AI photos thing can be a letdown, I can confidently say that the Telephoto + whatever software enhancement they do is incredible in many other scenarios with good lighting, for both photos and videos.
Which is exactly the reason why Samsung should not slap a crisp image of the moon over our moon pictures. It's called deception, and it's really unnecessary because they already have a great technology.
@@varnxxx Of course they overlay a reference image of the moon. The fact that it is done by a neural network and that you can't find any image of the moon as JPG in the ROM is irrelevant. The result is the same. You are going to find in the resulting image features typical of craters and mountain shadows that do not exist in your shot, and that could not even be produced by any enhancing filter, except one that understands that it's the moon, and has specifically be trained to ADD these details. Arun did not try hard enough, but I'm pretty sure you can have these features appear on a ping pong ball if the conditions are right. Craters on a ping pong ball?
@@fixups6536 my friend has an s22 ultra, he took a zoomed in pic of Saturn and while no details appeared, we could see a faint hint of rings around the equator. I checked Saturn's axis at that time and the rings were exactly where we saw them. So if the phone can capture that big of details that far away....I don't think it should have any problem getting good focus on the moon
I love how you broke It down at the same time so honest about it. No one's really complained about how A.I makes their photo looks crisper and saturated, but it does that to the moon and its a major issue. Although samsung tried making it look like a camera feature instead of A.I
AI doesnt do anything to your other photos. the scene optimizer only uses AI to detect the object you're taking a picture of, it doesnt use AI to edit. besides, adding artificial made up detail is different from adjusting contrast.
Lol even the portrait image on smartphone use the A.I to differentiate the person and background.. did anyone said the portrait shot on other phone are fake? I guess not.
Its because it changes people's decision to buy phones as people will think if the zoom is this good then the normal cam must be amazing. While in realty thats not really the case, the iphone zoom would be better for all other things. Lets say a person wants a phone with a good zoom camera, he will buy samsung after seeing reviews and samsung's marketing about the amazing zoom capabilities (the moon shot comparison), so he just got swindled into buying the phone with the worse camera. Clearly untruthful marketing and false advertising. This is why this is wrong.
Been using S22 Ultra for a while now. Always knew something was off as NONE of the 100x pictures had any amount of detail whatsoever apart from the moon pictures. Good analysis, Arun.
@@dhariapruth1 they should not in the first place. But it's Samsung, people let it slip. What can you do. Samsung cheated about so many things in past. Eg: the ltpo lowest value and so on.
Arun is the only tech youtuber you can rely on for most detailed , analyzed, unbiased and well researched info... Thanks for this detailed video... Huge Respect...❤️
i love how most people in the comment section still missed the point that Samsung enhances the photo, it doesn't replace or fake it. People are sometimes just that dumb
@@tunar_karimov how is it enhancing the photo when Ibreaksphotos put one and a half moons in front of the camera and the Samsung removed the half moon. Convenient how it wasn’t discussed in this video.
That’s what digital zoom has always been. When you zoom into a picture an algorithm invents additional pixels based on the surrounding pixels. With AI based zooming we’re just doing it using a different algorithm.
Digital zoom uses various matrix operations to calculate the values of the additional pixels based on the existing pixels, either by just duplicating them or using some kind of weighted average. It has never been about adding new information taken from something outside the photo. Using GenAI to invent new pixels using data from other people's photos isn't digital zoom at all, it's just fraud.
Hey Arun , the video was fabulous and what it conveys is the latest AI term "Computational Photography", which actually helps to tweak the shot to make it more real and pleasant to eyes and this thing is done by every single smartphone brand both ios and android sphere Keep it up , brilliant video
Hey Arun, excellent Moon puns aside, I appreciate the research and your objectivity you put into this video. It will be interesting to see where computational photography continues to take us.
It was clever. The last test of adding your own hidden image to it was the perfect test to shut down the whole copy pasted image idea. That, and the file not being found anywhere on the phone
Thanks Arun for actually doing the work to understand what these photos mean! I suppose, going forward, when the marketing term is "Camera" -> it is now referring to the hardware (lens+sensor) AND the image processing backend software as well.
As someone who loves taking detailed photos of the moon with my handheld Canon, I know the hard work it can be to capture the detail and the satisfaction afterwards when a good shot is taken. Having AI doing the hard work and just filling in an overlay of course does look great, but the camera didn't capture it and at the end of the day I'm not sure how I feel about it. It's almost like using AI Photoshop, and it's not real at the moment.
I use iPhone all the time but I recently bought the s23 ultra and used it for a month and used it mainly for the camera. And honestly its awesome to just zoom in and magnify certain areas thats your eyes wouldnt normally see… and let alone take a beautiful photo of it
I live in New Zealand. The moon photo's you're using look upside-down to me. It would be interesting to know if the camera recognises a Southern Hemisphere moon and replaces it in the same way.
This is why I like Arun. Where other creators simply just 'read out' online articles/blog posts/reddit threads (not a dig at other creators), this guy actually puts in a lot of effort.
I mean they advertise this whole moon shot thing as a separate feature so it's expected they'd apply specific software processing for this particular type of picture
They are known for making fake features and it's not surprising at all 😂😂😂 they are expert for making advertisement and make fun of apple buy they themselves not focusing on improving their feature. What a shame, no wonder samsung flagship phones not selling well😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ckhomphzxspaul8455 and the fanboy is here! Every single smartphone company does false advertising or mislead the customers, apple does that a lot so does samsung and oneplus and huawei and everyone else, every tech reviewer out there is praising samsung for their innovations and improvement in recent devices (specially s23 ultra) and you're saying samsung doesn’t focus on upgrades? I must say apple has blinded you And samsung flagships are selling just fine, their folds and flips sales have been increasing at a massive rate year by year, their s series sales have taken a bit of hit but that's because people are more interested in their special innovative foldables not because the quality of their s series has downgraded rather it has increased by a lot
They're known for exploding batteries, and recently they're batteries swollen. But then this? Haha Samsung's bad reputation keep repeating 😂😂😂 Karma is real😂😆😂😆
@@ckhomphzxspaul8455 You're talking about really old devices you know that right? They only had one model with exploding issue and somehow you're making it sound like every device they make explodes I should've realized I was talking to a kid by looking at the number of unnecessary emojis you use. Well I guess it’s on me I can only say....grow up! Android has surpassed iphone. Samsung makes better flagships than apple. They take better photos, have a more well rounded and all-rounder camera set, look better, have tons more features and customizations with massive user freedom and no restriction like ios, provide almost the same battery backup as iphones with much faster charging. Even in things like videography, raw performance and longevity, they have come quite close to apple's level
@@flaminggodofthunder the majority of the masses arent that smart and is lazy (at least when it comes to tech) so they will just become locked into the opinions of media and influencers just like this paul and since their brain is turned off you will have a 0% chance of changing their opinion since they arent even listening to you. This is one big reason why Iphone is so popular because why else would you want a expensive phone where you can only text, call and use the internet, and lets not talk about repairs and how each company thinks of you as a customer
@@fanban2926 look aPpLe FaNbOy now is even trying to say that AI is bad, I agree that Samsung went really far doing this. But cmon dude isn't it fascinating and shocking how far AI has came?
They've been doing this forever. My Note20 Ultra does the same thing. You would think by now it would be basic common sense - any photo zoomed in 50x or 100x besides the moon comes out looking like it was shot on mid-2000s flip phone camera. It stands to reason the single exception which is even further out is being doctored. For me, the more interesting point about their AI is the use cases their engineers took into account, for example, shots of the moon when the moon is visible during the day, and then colorgrading it correctly.
This is easily one of the better analysis of the Samsung "moon shot", so I appreciate you for that. For me the issue is marketing. Samsung promotes the camera as being able to take a clear moon shot. It doesn't. A (very intelligent, but not with cameras) coworker of mine recently showed me his new Samsung phone and the great moon picture he took with it. As bright as he is, he fell for a marketing ploy. That's why I disagree with what Samsung is doing. For purely marketing purposes, they're misrepresenting a feature. Dishonesty is something I do not respect.
@@Avaitor_YT The camera alone can't do it. Even the phone alone can't do it. It needs to recognize it as a moon shot, then pull in data from other pictures that were not taken on the phone and merge them. It's a deep fake. If you want to believe deep fakes are the real thing, well...
That's AN AMAZING perspective ! This is one of those moments where i feel like a sheep for following something soo blindly , without actually looking deeper into this . Superb video !
While some feel that they've been "mooned" by Samsung, I appreciate what the technology is able to produce. The amount of money one would need to spend on conventional equipment to get that type of shot is considerable, way beyond the cost of the phone. You're a punny guy, Arun. There are times when you deliver 2/3 of a pun. Then again, you surprise us with the occasional home run pun. Keep it up!
@@enigmamyth Well because when Android takes a general feature from apple, its a new feature , when apple takes a general feature from android (like always on display) its called copying and what not. I think the Toxic Fan Base of Samsung (Remember the toxic ones) needs to be called out of this. Because if apple did this all the idiots on the internet would be cancelling apple. But when Samsung does it , without telling their customers , it suddenly becomes a new revolutionary innovation....Ya dont try to defend samsung on this one. Android VS IOS conversations are already the most stupidest on the internet. Seriously you cant see a video about apple products and not have people who have never even used the product say its garbage and overprices (even if it isn't , like mac mini or macbook air) So ya the big point is , These conversations have are worthless, use what you want to..But honsetly samsung deserves to be called out for hiding their 'revolutionary innovation'.
I made a better shot then Samsung on my old 12 mp Nikon D300 from 2007 with a sigma zoom lens an old DSLR with a zoom lens is not that expensive on ebay
This is a tricky one ain't it. I'm personally appreciative that Samsung do this cos the end result is a better photo. Maybe it's a bit wrong that Samsung advertises the awesome moon shot capabilities to influence customers to buy Samsung phones over other brands though 🤔. Another great video though Arun. Love the way you present your content. Perfect ratio of detailed information, mixed with a the right amount of light hearted humour. P-S- I watched your video on your proposal and I'm so happy for you. She seems a lovely lady and think you got amazing chemistry. All the best for your future together mate. Keep doing what ya doing.
Also agree and appreciate that he took the time to do his own experiments. Making a video in and of itself isn't easy, but he put in extra effort on top of it to empirically give us more data to work with. All for us in order for us to have, dare I say it, a more accurate picture ;)
You’re videos are amazing! You can tell the dedication and hard work you put into them! Also o love how you perfect you videos, but make them humorous as well! You try many ways and different things for research towards your video! Love them.
Thank you for actually doing research and providing a truthful explanation, it was annoying to see the random biased takes on Twitter who had no idea what they were talking about
This was such a great explanation and definitely clears a lot of things for those who were accusing of Samsung faking the whole thing by changing the whole moon when it was infact using both visual and trained images to complement the output shot like most photos are from a smartphone. As for their marketing, Samsung did talk about their Spacezoom shots being an achievement of the AI enhancing those. But, as years went by they never reiterated the term again aside from saying Spacezoom shots. This video was needed and hopefully it clears up the issues.
The thing is that it is not really a "space"-zoom feature but rather a "moon"-zoom. The most sensible thing for reviewers to do from now on is to stop using the moon-shot as a reference point when comparing cameras. Because if the AI can fix the image in a limited scenario then us consumers can't draw any other conclusions for when we want to zoom in at night on other scenes/objects. Is the superior output due in 90% due to AI? 50%? The idea is that the review/comparison should reflect the camera performance in real life use cases. Sure, Google/Apple also have Neural-Net chips and can train up a model for moon-shots, which will make improve the camera 0% an any other picture other than the moon.
@@stennan Actually if you turn the Scene Optimiser off, you can still take amazing moonshots. If you use, GCAm, pro mode, expert RAW, you can still take very good moonshots from this camera. Even with manual controls, you actually can take moonshots. The periscope lens here can actually capture light information from the moon since the object is bright, stationary in our perspective while taking shots, and stands out in the night sky. So this aspect of comparison should exist but as you said, by default AI does a lot of work, so it is not a right benchmark to use unless Scene Optimiser is turned off or manual shots are used in these particular cases or just not used against devices that don't have them.
I did not know about the Moon photo when I bought my Samsung, I just saw it one night and took it. Yes it was a bit blurry not by much like you show in your video so I adjusted the sharpness.
Amazing video! The actual answer is that they're not faking the photos, but actually using AI to compensate/Sharpen the photos. The claim of that redditor are kinda misleading but not fully incorrect but only 20% correct at best.
They are faking the photos as the AI is adding and interpolating detail that isn't there to begin with. Just "sharpening" alone won't produce results like that
Dude there is RUclipsr who is from kerala his channel name sarath's neo tech , he also explained about this issue same like arun and he did a day ago... Im not saying arun copied...
Great to hear ur input! Seems like everyone saw that Reddit post lmao. The question of what is a photo is very important to whether Samsung is right/wrong. It's weird how Samsung does admit it in their Korean website they use ai so why did they continue to advertise as with no optimisation?
Cuz people love to shit on Samsung when they finally have a competitive product especially now when apple is refusing to even give a darn about the iphone 14 by releasing the same device even skipping the spec bump. Tim Cook's bootlickers are everywhere
its mostly software you know. The camera itself doesn't need to be amazing..just the software does. Just look at the pixel phones I you want proof of that.
Sorry it took me longer to get the video out - wanted to be 100% sure I'd tested it myself before I talked about it! 👌
To see my (extremely over-the-top) proposal video: ruclips.net/video/CKvZ9KhLgHE/видео.html
hi
:D
Hi
It's still noice
Is fine
I honestly thought this was gonna take a negative turn. I have a new level of respect towards Arun now 🙏🏻 Thank you for being fair and doing proper research, twitter could never.
cringe bot be like
edit: bro there was a bot above my reply that's now deleted i'm not accusing the original comment of being a bot 😐
-.-
@@Safwaan821 because they too is a bot
@Safwaan made me laugh so he deserved it
Imagine being a bot and subscribing to a bot lol
Spotted a familiar face at 7:39. Haha! Great explanation as always, Arun! Super in-depth 👏🏻
hey its you
especially the part where he defends samsung by saying: "if it is overlay than u should be able to find the moon photo on the phone " 🤦 this is the dumbest thing i ever herd, but hey...if it fools the masses than yeah, good job
Hey your Videos are great too! I liked the new iPhone concept video!
@@dorucreo POV: You can’t spell
@@Snowmentil pov: you play roblox 💀
The biggest worry here, at least for me, is that most people just are not aware of how much processing occurs when they take photos on their phones. So, when Samsung advertises that it can take a clear moonshot, it gives the impression that the camera can capture, with clarity, objects as far away as the moon and this is supposed to be a next-gen mind-blowing feature that is supposed to give it a leg up on the competition.
Tech nerds see through it but for average consumers, what might sway their decision making is supposed to be a general capability to shoot super clear shots for objects far away and that just is not present here. It's misleading marketing.
Well I actually used to have the Samsung s22 Ultra and I can for sure agree with the video that yes it is AI processing but still it can zoom and give you very clear images from very far away. Not just the moon. It still processes the picture after you've taken it but the result it's pretty crispy. I would 100% say that it has the best zoom quality in the market since I also do this job and I'm a technology consultant and I had the chance to compare almost every phone's camera.
@@ettadiam3466did you just ignore everything he said
@@ettadiam3466those zoomed inages arent crisp because the camera is good, its because every image taken with 10× + zoom has ai upscaling. For a normal person it wouldn't be visible, but graphic designers like me who upscale assets every now and then can clearly tell if a image is upscaled or not.
still prefer that fake moonshot that samsung does than the crappy moonshot that iphones could offer...
Still would buy a smasung phone over crappy iphones. Over priced shit for even lesser features
Give this man award.. this is exactly what tech channel are supposed to do
Say bullshit to make a company look bad? Yes.
You can litterally turn of the scene optimiser and have raw photos
without any ai interfering, the description of scene optimiser is litterally to tweak photos
to make them look more appealing.
@@natman_bad Does it have a disclaimer that it affects moon photos to such an extent though? I mean if it doesn't, people definitely have the right to be surprised.
@@Scyth3934 If it has a disclaimer that states it improves pictures with ai that would be enough of a disclaimer. Samsung can't just smell that people like you are gonna cry about a feature you can just turn of.
Bro MKBHD made the same video a day ago 😂
@@varunkandhari4819 haven't watched yet
Props to the AI developers, they've done a brilliant job here!!
EDIT:- Stop the war! sorry if my statement doesn't match with some of your opinions.....
Props to them if they manage to fake and 'enhance' all other objects in the world than just the moon...
exactly my thought, no wonder the thing is kinda shady but damn the AI is clever AF, respect
@@iTheGeo most phones already do that. If it were not for these algorithms our phones would literally be 10 years backward in terms of camera. There's only so much a small sensor can do in terms of capturing the environment
Ye
Huawei did this 3/4 years ago
Fun fact: I've heard about this ever since the S21 Ultra came out, and for some reason, this news is appearing once again
Same
WHY CAN YALL GET LIKE AND NOT ME
@Don't Read My Profile Picture ok
It's apple fan boys trying to take down samsung, in my channel I got 100% real pics of the moon, fr these apple users want samsung down
[Not all, only the baised ones]
Cool
I think image processing and correction is fine as long as the photo takers have the option to decide between enhanced photos (for blurry text, things like removing wires, etc.) and genuine, authentic photos. Both have their place, and there are only issues when you're forced into the former without the option for the latter.
Well, that and advertising software processing as high-quality optical cameras!
i agree with you on everything!
What is genuine, authentic photo? Every photo that you take using a smartphone is processed in some form or other. That is why Iphone and Samsung cameras are considered best in the smartphone market because of their better image processing.
Yeah they should have been honest
indeed but what samsung try to market it as a benefit from the hardware
I agree wholeheartedly...
If I take a picture of my house to send to my friend it's cool that I can click a box and have all the power lines magically disappear... but, if I posted that picture on a real estate ad for the house, I would be guilty of false advertising
This is the BEST explanation and review of this whole "debacle" I've seen so far! Spot on! Completely agree with you - Sammy should not have marketed the feature the way they did; that is what made people feel cheated; however, at the end of the day, it's not faking results, but using AI to make them better...
Nah, those are still fake results, lol. It's just an instagram filter for the moon.
@@Ironborn Kinda like every single selfie out there? 😁 I mean, seriously, how "real" are 99.5% of the pics posted these days?
yeah imo samsung did a horrible job explaining the whole ai-photo-enhancing thingy
@@johnsalamii Completely agree.
If Apple did this, It would have been called a revolutionary feature.
I would just like to moon-tion that I loved all the cheesy moon puns. It was really de-moon-strative of Arun’s incredible moon-tal capacity for top quality jokes that make us giggle
Damn your comment got hearted by Arun!
He is engaged his inner dad is awakening
"moon-tion" gosh this pun is SO bad.
Hey Hey Hey...no mooning in chat🌛 😁
what a moon-strosity of puns!
Ever since cameras have to make an interpretation of the colors and light from film days, there has always been a matter of subjetivity in the maker of the film, sensors and now AI. It's kind of hard to know where the limit is tho. The good thing is that some manufacturers are giving the option to turn off, and you can always use RAW if you want none of it.
Indeed. And even de-mosaicing is inventing some detail that isn't there: camera sensors don't record full colour in every pixel, half the pixels record in green, a quarter of them record in red and a quarter of them record in blue. An algorithm has to be used to guess the best full colour value to output for each pixel based on that.
@Barney Laurance but it is there. It's not making stuff out of nothing. If i took the moon photo and it just added a crater that doesn't even exist on the moon, then I'd be pissed. You know what's faking? It's when i go to sight seeing looking at the pictures taken by the professional photographer on some tourism magazine only to find out how underwhelming it is. That's faking. If the phone's AI wanst enhancing, adding in details then let's be real we would be adding it ourselves in post.
1:08 That moon swapping scene had me dying🤣🤣🤣
Just got my S23 Ultra recently. I love the camera setup and how instant photos taken in a rush turn out looking far better than I expected. I don't mind the subtle tweaks at all and if it makes an image look better and closer to my reality, well then why not? I'd rather look back on good photos than bad, blurred ones.
Great video Arun, always enjoy all your content :)
Exactly
Bro whatever keeps your peace
The real question is not that it's faking or not but does it matters to real users and answer seems - not .
gj you broke through fanboyism and propaganda of buying only iphones. good riddance.
And i bet that the minute iphone does the same thing iphonefanboys are going to be like "never seen before" "unique"
To be real honest, this is how I thought things went anyways. What did people think happened when they said ”AI-enhanced processing”?
bases on the replies by the fanboys, they still thinking it can take actual moon photos.
like "actual" meaning, how it looks like exactly, not with extra details added.
yeah you right. They dont think that far, that you cant even shoot a plane really high up but the moon with no problem🤡
@@Luccplay well to be fair, an airplane is in a lit sky with lots of distortion and light pollution while the moon is it's own "lightsource" against a mostly black background. So it's not that big a stretch as you think. And I've shot 80x zoom photos with my s22 ultra where I could read the registration number off the plane as well.
@@basketcase1235 do u have any phone from Note 20 ultra that van take the moonshot?
Its not AI-enhancing its AI-replacing
I do think the amount of processing that is happening, needs to be more clearly advertised. I noticed it in holiday snaps actually, taken by a friend’s phone…where I looked consistently pretty good, to the point where I was starting to get suspicious. I then made a conscious effort to take similar pics with my own camera - both back and portrait mode and started seeing some real differences between all three. There was clearly a wide variety of filtering happening between shots. I don’t mind, but I do wish to be told and have the option to turn it off. If I want to Instagram filter my face, then that’s what I’ll do…
And you can. In settings turn it OFF.
Scene optimiser on/off !!!!
Yeah. Once I literally zoomed in. And I barely took a second to take a pic of the moon. I saw the image came out blown out and blurry because I moved the phone as it took the image. But it was still processing. Then it spit out a cripsy clear moon image out of nowhere. The file size was only 400kbs 💀
Scene optimizer. You can turn it off in camera settings!
Turn off your scene optimiser entering into camera settings!!!
Our brains do the same thing automatically, we assume details where there are none.
True
Good point. Perhaps this is just marking a shift in making phone cameras work more similarly to how our brains perceive the world and less like how traditional photography has captured it.
There are certainly pros and cons to both approaches.
Yeah except the difference is that cameras don't have a blind spot in the middle of their field of vision
He said you can turn it off. Would anyone know how to do that?
@@elliotwang2687 yeah, you can turn scene optimiser off in your camera settings
I can't decide how I feel about this. I mean from a photography perspective there is something really special about truly capturing your own detail of the moon. But then again I also sometimes end up stacking tons of images and altering what I originally saw by bringing out colours in the moon.
Either way, awesome video and technology is insane! Haha
Same boat, but I think it's a marketing feature... You could take that AI model into any other phone and the result would be the same... so is not the S23U Camera hardware that is good they just the found a good marketing strategy doing it with the moon (which sound awesome to the public and is easy to implement)
a photographer can literally use expert raw or just simply turn off the image process and get their result if they don't want ai to alter stuff, I think the whole discussion is stupid, how could anyone think a photo with 10x optical lens capture 100x digital zoom pics with all realistic details in the pic, if you want a realistic result it is going to be a blurry mess. There are other phones with 10x optical zoom but only samsung can do the 100x digital zoom properly because of their proper AI model for upscaling these images.
Is to capture 60 years old Moms that are obsessed with taking Moon photos hahah
@@ghfsd786fa nope the hardware is really good too . This only works like this on moon photos but when we even compare random things zoomed the s23 ultra is just better then the competition that's it .
Hahaha relatable thoughts!
You are incredible Arun! You did your investigation exceptionally well. It's a delight having you in the tech community. Bravo!! 👏
Mkbhd did it first
He is
@@n3xus49 he didn't do any tests though, especially the "hanging moon cutout" which was pretty surprising.
Bot.
@@basketcase1235 that was a great idea.
My only question is who honestly for real really thought that they were taking a blurry picture of the Moon and without any kind of AI or possessing we're getting these super crisp pictures of the moon. I've had the s22 s23 and fold 4 and I could speak for myself and say I was able to tell right away that there was some kind of processing going on with the moon but you still need a camera capable of zooming in close enough and having a clear enough picture to be able to process to be that crisp. that's the feature
Good point
That’s incorrect. The debunking of this whole deceptive claim from Samsung shows it doesn’t need to be able to zoom in “close enough.” It’s substituted material. Don’t gaslight yourself.
Literally no, the video literally show how he printed a blurry no detail fake moon and your glorious features faked all the details. Its not a features its a scam brah
If it’s “processing” then you made a good point. But this behavior is no different, it basically took a perfect moon image and use AI to auto fit into the blurry image you take. That’s fundamentally different.
@@Bikingutahcounty you clearly didn't research on this topic enough
This was very informative. I have been a long term samsung fan and was worried when I saw this video. But you cleared it up for us. Thanks man, you've earned a sub.
Glad that Arun is investigating it in such detail.
It can be great.
Imagine added texture in leaves, flowers, clothes, paper, rocks, fur in your photos.
I think this is the thing. IF it could add details to everything, it wouldn't be a problem. You can compare the quality of the moon photos with all the other photos. But in this case, it only works with the moon and Samsung isn't communicating that it's limited to this. Regular people will most likely believe that they can get an equally good photo with the 100x zoom with any type of subject, which they can't.
That's already happening. All photos captured by a Samsung phone will have enchanced texture and text unless you activate Pro mode.
The amount of technology required to do this is mind blowing
Not really, is a relatively easy technology, labeling the data for training might be a PITA
@Don't Read My Profile Picture ok
@Don't Read My Profile Picture k
@Don't Read My Profile Picture sure np
@@ghfsd786fa "AckCHyually" no one asked you 😂
You and MKBHD did a great job at explaining what is happening with Samsung's camera. It is now up to people to actually understand this..
But they won't... iPhone fanboys already saying "It's a fake moon, so the iPhone's camera is better"🤡
@@0xUchiha I agree tho😂 They be thinking their phone is better when in fact, it does the same thing but in a different way.
Iphones literally has deep fussion which is using ai and multiple shots to enhance detail but no one bats an eye.
@@torezgermy2 This is what I've been saying since forever!! Apple gets away with it by saying their camera "processing" and turning their photos into a "natural" look.
@@amersheene692 You know Apple gets a pass. It would be a nontrovercy if this whole moon situation was done by Apple.
ohhhhh that is so shady...I have a few toes in the "they are tricking us" camp. Not rabidly but slightly in that direction. Your intrepid dedication to testing the hypothesis in such detail is truly chefs kiss!
It's no different than the filters used in social media. What's iffy about it is when it's used as marketing to trick the buyer into thinking it's a better camera. I personally think it's a good thing to be able to have and use when needed. The phone manufacturers just need to be honest about the feature's actual capabilities.
The cameras ARE good though. I've zoomed to random things and it took GREAT photos
@@OzZy-13820exactly, I'll agree that it's cheap to advertise something that they taught it to cheat at... but it's such a cool feature to have that I don't want to buy a phone with less than 100x zoom now. It's like having a set of binoculars and a decent telephoto camera with you all the time. And I've gotten some really good photos with the main lenses that could rival a legit camera
@lukeaugustus2235 same, not only moon shots, but I've zoomed and caught details of trees, power lines running up the mountain behind my house that captured details you can't see with the naked eye. Gimmicky or not, it works and that's what matters.
@@OzZy-13820Then they should show that in their marketing - zoom into a dolphin leaping out the ocean far in the distance. Instead they said it can take photos of the moon with detail, and their cameras simply cannot.
The truth and honestly have gone out of style with the new generation. Lying, cheating are the norm. They then try to use word salad to defend the practice. I find it disgusting.
Arun Did A Moon-umental job with this video. Props to him and his team for such hard work 💪
The reddit post experiment was already done by a Korean youtuber way back when the S20 Ultra came out.
Samsung has always done this (and were pretty transparent about it) and in response to the controversy they explained that the 'fake moon' was just a byproduct of their computational photography engine since it does the same processing procedure like all the other photos.
Dope video about the topic, though.
these isheep cant agree anymore
@@yashdhanwate3153 bro typed "isheep" 🤓
@@usnish9801 iSheep*
@@usnish9801 lol then how do you get the message about what i was talking about! nerd
@@usnish9801 wtf did he mean tho😂
Thank you for pointing out that Samsung actually has trained AI to actually use the base photo to upscale it rather than just downloading some stock image. Most people would probably prefer an over-processed photo rather than the real thing because it looks way better.
These phones have the option to use raw photos. Anything over 20x zoom is digital zoom. Which mean it take a photo and than zoom in on that photo. With that said, a 50 megapixel lens has so much detail, that if you zoom in on it 40x it would still have a crisp image. Another thing, the s23 ultra also has a 200 mp lens. About the moon, read my previous comment.
Classic grooming
I would prefer the AI-processed photos a majority of the time, I'm sure. However, Samsung needs to be super transparent to the user each time the AI is applied, perhaps naming the photo with a tag that makes it clear AI was used (not only clear to the person who took the photo, but to anyone they share it with). And a prompt should come up when the AI is about to be applied explaining how it works (what the result is, a partially AI-generated photo... versus what it isn't, a real photo with a basic filter). Imagine the person thinking a photo is real and it ends up in, say, a murder trial or used to portray an act of war... Or someone thinks their missing loved one has been found bc the AI superimposes their face on a zoomed-in stranger. The list goes on. The consequences could be dire. Full transparency by Samsung and full awareness for the end user are what's important here.
I agree... but I also think it's sad.
If you WANT a nice photo of the moon then just download one.
WHat is the benefit of pretending it came from your phone?
@@keithlevkoff8579 It DID come from your phone. Samsung is actually using what you took, just upscaling it. Not much different from how your photos are "improved" after you take them.
Thank you Arun! The work you put in and the points you made throughout were fantastic, seen so many negative comments and articles about this topic so it was great to actually watch you not just explain it but also give the pros and cons.
Arun 🤣🤣🤣🤣 paid and fed by rotten apple to speak against SAMSUNG as much as he can! This is absolute shit 💩💩💩💩
@indu adhikari 😅🤣 Literally hasn't said anything bad about them! Every major tech channel and websites have said worse, his views are natural in this video in my opinion. Maybe watch it again!
@@PracticallyAviation NO I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE VIDEO AGAIN!!!! ROTTEN APPLE PAID AND FED BOY TAKING ADVANTAGE MORE THAN NECESSARY OF WHAT NEWS ARE COMING OUT...I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND EVERY SINGLE MOBILE BRAND ENHANCE AI FOR BETTER PICTURE SO DO ROTTEN APPLE!!!! APPLE AND THEIR FED BARKING DOGS (YOU TUBER ARUN) NEED TO SEE THEIR FACE ON MIRROR PROPERLY THEN POINT FINGER TO OTHERS....I HOPE YOU ARE WISE ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT.
Your comment at the end about it being more authentic was truly on point and I think solved alot of the argument imo. We can't always want the newest phone but be mad when a company tries something new to make it even better. Like you said . We just needed communication.
Nobody's reading this paragraph
@@TheEpicAce2, you sure? 'Cause at least I am.
@@pramusetyakanca1552 me too. I came here for how people reacts to this video
@@kingmohammad6814 well...this is the biggest waste of my time
@@TheEpicAce2 yeah maybe it is to you but not to me because as I said before I came to how people reacts
Arun..
You've just gotten much more respect for taking out time to not only do this but to sincerely come out with an unbiased opinion
That's what we should call doing our own research.
Kudos to you, great insights.
AI is doing a fantastic job , but not only for the moon. If you go to a concert with your s23 ultra and you sit way at the back, you will have so much better quality on your fancams. Equally, if you zoom into a really far away sign that has writing on it, you will notice that after the image is processed, not only is it sharper, but it also turns the text readable and correct. What they've done with the camera on this phone is amazing.
Completely agree. I was able to test how good the processing was, I was able to read the use by date on a water bottle at 20m. I could barely read the smaller writing on the label haha
And this is why I will forever respect and support your content Arun. 100% honest and everything is backed by facts. I learn a lot from you. I don't think Samsung is "cheating" us, what they're doing is actually good for the future of software and AI.
Yup. They're not cheating. All the information is on their website about how this works, actually albeit mostly in Korean.
Agreed!
The cheating part here is Arun...
Because Samsung has admitted this before- years ago with the s20 range.
Samsung users have been talking about it for years now... I first saw this in 2021, an article about the s21 base model doing this (I had an s20 so I went googling...) theres even a post on Samsungs online forum explaining exactly how the *software* works...
This is something we already knew, it's not new, it's just surprising to those who were unaware...
For people who are into astrophotography, you'd want it to be exactly like what you took, not an AI-enhanced picture . At least for me
@@soul-the_argonaut5211 While I don't agree attributing the cheating to Arun - you are right that this has been known for years. MKBHD actually this as well in his recent post about the S23 Ultra - that the tech has been around for years and that Samsung has been very transparent and forthcoming about it as well as how it works.
Well, I don't think that's a huge problem since it only kicks in when scene optimiser is turned on. The description for scene optimiser clearly states that it tweaks the photos to make them more appealing. If you want realistic photos, you shouldn't be using scene optimiser anyway. I would consider it to be a problem if it were replacing it with a stock photo. Since that's not what's happening here and it is just using AI to make the photo look more appealing just like the description says, I don't have a problem with it. Personally, I like realistic photos so I keep scene optimiser turned off.
Exactly
Yep. And to be honest, if you don't want this behaviour in ANY shape or form, you shouldn't use smartphone cameras at all. Almost every device will have implemented this to some extent, and some are more clear about it (imo, Samsung is) than others.
👏👏👏👏👏👌
Especially considering that pretty much every photo created from astrophotographers is edited in some way, may it be stacking, edited in lightroom or photoshop or both or other programs. That's just how appealing photos are created. All whats happening now is people realizing good photos are edited because raw photos just don't look good enough. They expect to photos automatically look beautiful, even when this isn't how it works.
No. The issue is Samsung is using this moon photo to advertise their camera capabilities, which is false advertising. If Samsung didn't false advertise and be honest about it, then it's completely fine.
I agree with the ending, I wouldn't mind as long as I can show a clearer memory to my friends and family. Talking from personal experience.
I definitely don't like how they advertised it as if they were really taking pictures of the moon though, but with AI situations like this is always tricky with constant competitors.
😊
Bravo to Arun, and even MKBHD for explaining it in a reasonable manner.
I don't know how people didn't realise this sooner. It's a no-brainer that a sensor that small can't get all the detail for a perfect shot.
I knew it months ago after using my telescope and phone compared to telescope
@Trenrede Yeah, besides, I find it amazing that the stuff they developed could do so well in every scenario, even creating new craters on the surface of the moon. Imagine how long they worked on the algorithms for this kind of stuff.
I knew right away when I took my first moon shot with it. When you zoom in it suspiciously gets waay more clear than any other photo I take with the zoom. It's cool tech nonetheless I just wish Samsung didn't lie about it
@@catboy3471 Apple already does it, nobody cares... Apple uses software and AI to enhance and process images taken by the camera sensor.
@@The92Waffles it gets the sales going on. I don’t use Samsung but I did mention it so many times to say how the zoom is so good. Guess not anymore.
I’m so proud of Arun, he was my top favorite channel two years ago, but now that I know he’s going to be 100% honest 90% of the time, I can trust and use the info he gives to say true information to tell my friends facts. True facts.
100% honest 90% of the time? Bruh😂
@@OCD.ReaderYea dude hes 190% sure
@@dicedmeat7857 exactly
@@dicedmeat7857 😭
"It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good. They've done studies, you know. Sixty percent of the time, it works every time."
My Personal Hot Take:
Mostly every single true professional photographer will end up doing major edits and photoshopping thier phone, less then 10% use true raw unedited photos. So this taking hassle out of it for casual and semi professional photographers is awesome, IMHP. Also I believe that a good 85% or more of true professionals , highend simi professionals, and a few casuals will already have a dedicated camera. So I don't see them really caring that much, JS.
After looking into it, it turns out that Samsung was up front about how their Scene Optimizer works. We just never cared. The AI features can be turned off pretty easily.
The full article had apparently been in Korean though. And has since been translated into English since this controversy began.
❤❤❤❤😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉
Just turn the optimizer off. Simple. I keep it on tho, i like good photographs.
So they weren't upfront then. It obvious with the space zoom stuff.
@@bakirev ?? did you even read the comment genius
@@keigansabo9330 yes, genius. If they are selling the phone world wide and they only have a korean page that's not being upfront.
This is why we watch you Arun. I was waiting for your take on this. I totally agree. I want my phone to take amazing pics, not pics that look like a 2009 phone camera because it's more accurate of what the optics sees. Also, this scene optimizer only works for the moon in that way. I can take a pic of a Totoya Camry from a mile away and it's not going to come out super crisp despite the world knowing exactly what that car is. If the AI can help to make the moon pic better then I'm all for it.
I think the problem is Samsung marketing it as a camera feature, not an AI feature that only works for the moon. If not for this mini "scandal" I would buy the phone for its camera, try to shoot some other thing from afar and be disappointed, not knowing what went wrong.
It will make the toyota camry look better. AI photos are really advanced now.
@@AugustoValentini most camera phones now are pure AI, Iphone, Xiaomi, etc. Do the same.
Too bad it's not your pic, it's other pics overlaid on it.
@@AugustoValentini samsung compared other phones to their phone based on this feature to show how good their cameras are, and now we know that it's not related to their cameras at all, it's just a ai trick, it's false advertising
I own an S22 Ultra, and while this Moon AI photos thing can be a letdown, I can confidently say that the Telephoto + whatever software enhancement they do is incredible in many other scenarios with good lighting, for both photos and videos.
Same
Which is exactly the reason why Samsung should not slap a crisp image of the moon over our moon pictures. It's called deception, and it's really unnecessary because they already have a great technology.
@@fixups6536 Did you watch the video? They do not overlay anything. Turn screen optimisation off.
@@varnxxx Of course they overlay a reference image of the moon. The fact that it is done by a neural network and that you can't find any image of the moon as JPG in the ROM is irrelevant. The result is the same. You are going to find in the resulting image features typical of craters and mountain shadows that do not exist in your shot, and that could not even be produced by any enhancing filter, except one that understands that it's the moon, and has specifically be trained to ADD these details. Arun did not try hard enough, but I'm pretty sure you can have these features appear on a ping pong ball if the conditions are right. Craters on a ping pong ball?
@@fixups6536 my friend has an s22 ultra, he took a zoomed in pic of Saturn and while no details appeared, we could see a faint hint of rings around the equator. I checked Saturn's axis at that time and the rings were exactly where we saw them. So if the phone can capture that big of details that far away....I don't think it should have any problem getting good focus on the moon
Nuh uh I refuse to believe this video was uploaded 1 year ago
I love how you broke It down at the same time so honest about it. No one's really complained about how A.I makes their photo looks crisper and saturated, but it does that to the moon and its a major issue. Although samsung tried making it look like a camera feature instead of A.I
AI doesnt do anything to your other photos. the scene optimizer only uses AI to detect the object you're taking a picture of, it doesnt use AI to edit.
besides, adding artificial made up detail is different from adjusting contrast.
@@chewthegum AI does everything to most flagship normal photos bro
@@drixxer not in this way though
Lol even the portrait image on smartphone use the A.I to differentiate the person and background.. did anyone said the portrait shot on other phone are fake? I guess not.
Its because it changes people's decision to buy phones as people will think if the zoom is this good then the normal cam must be amazing. While in realty thats not really the case, the iphone zoom would be better for all other things. Lets say a person wants a phone with a good zoom camera, he will buy samsung after seeing reviews and samsung's marketing about the amazing zoom capabilities (the moon shot comparison), so he just got swindled into buying the phone with the worse camera. Clearly untruthful marketing and false advertising. This is why this is wrong.
I've never been this loyal to a tech reviewer before, nicely done sir! I've watched a lot of informative tech reviews and arun is built different 💯
And the lesson is use a proper bloody camera made for photography,such as a Nikon.
Flossy carter is also very good
By any chance, did you attend UISGZ for primary school? You look very similar to one of my old classmates.
Been using S22 Ultra for a while now.
Always knew something was off as NONE of the 100x pictures had any amount of detail whatsoever apart from the moon pictures.
Good analysis, Arun.
Only uneducated people will think it's real. Anyone with decent knowledge directly know it's fake.
@Fantasytky They should not have highlighted/marketed the 100x zoom as giving out such quality details just based on the moon shots during the launch.
@@dhariapruth1 they should not in the first place. But it's Samsung, people let it slip. What can you do. Samsung cheated about so many things in past. Eg: the ltpo lowest value and so on.
@@dhariapruth1 just turn off the 'Scene Optimizer' and click the moon pic again.
@@pratikdeshmukh4275 What's worse is that it's on by default, while Huawei's moon mode isn't.
Honestly, I appreciate your incredible effort and scientific approach to test and prove. It’s insane 😂
He explains it better than any tech articles and RUclipsrs out there. Great job 👍🏾
Arun is the only tech youtuber you can rely on for most detailed , analyzed, unbiased and well researched info...
Thanks for this detailed video...
Huge Respect...❤️
No matter how good explanation is given by wonderful youtubers like you, the haters and jealous box won't change.
fr
i love how most people in the comment section still missed the point that Samsung enhances the photo, it doesn't replace or fake it. People are sometimes just that dumb
@@tunar_karimovwell if i want a clearer fake moon photo by my camera i could just download images from google, there is no difference.
@@tunar_karimov how is it enhancing the photo when Ibreaksphotos put one and a half moons in front of the camera and the Samsung removed the half moon. Convenient how it wasn’t discussed in this video.
@@juniors3275 Any links? Cuz his original post in reddit is shown in the video, which is also a heavy enhancement on the moon’s photo
That’s what digital zoom has always been. When you zoom into a picture an algorithm invents additional pixels based on the surrounding pixels. With AI based zooming we’re just doing it using a different algorithm.
Digital zoom uses various matrix operations to calculate the values of the additional pixels based on the existing pixels, either by just duplicating them or using some kind of weighted average. It has never been about adding new information taken from something outside the photo. Using GenAI to invent new pixels using data from other people's photos isn't digital zoom at all, it's just fraud.
@@hansliss that’s literally what I said
Hey Arun , the video was fabulous and what it conveys is the latest AI term "Computational Photography", which actually helps to tweak the shot to make it more real and pleasant to eyes and this thing is done by every single smartphone brand both ios and android sphere
Keep it up , brilliant video
And the proposal, that was really fantastic , do you think to have a video featuring her sooner or later??
Hey Arun, excellent Moon puns aside, I appreciate the research and your objectivity you put into this video. It will be interesting to see where computational photography continues to take us.
It was clever. The last test of adding your own hidden image to it was the perfect test to shut down the whole copy pasted image idea. That, and the file not being found anywhere on the phone
Thanks Arun for actually doing the work to understand what these photos mean! I suppose, going forward, when the marketing term is "Camera" -> it is now referring to the hardware (lens+sensor) AND the image processing backend software as well.
same way on iphones, google pixels etc
I have better example that proves that Samsung doesn't use fake pictures
As an engineer with computer vision experience and AI art, I instinctively knew this was happening. The proof, though, is genius!
These videos just keep getting better and better!
I've been watching you're channel for years: it's amazing to see how far you've come since then!
8:33 Arun making 7.2 earthquake👀.
7.2 what? Bananas?
In the richter scale
And ik you are trying to be sarcastic to him for some reason
@@Falafel_cat No, I just wanted to know the unit for the earthquake
@@FuckingKamikaze oh okay nvm
Arun's probably the only tech creator that can make me sit through the entire video without feeling bored...👍♥️
Same
As someone who loves taking detailed photos of the moon with my handheld Canon, I know the hard work it can be to capture the detail and the satisfaction afterwards when a good shot is taken. Having AI doing the hard work and just filling in an overlay of course does look great, but the camera didn't capture it and at the end of the day I'm not sure how I feel about it. It's almost like using AI Photoshop, and it's not real at the moment.
you can still take unaltered photos with the super telephoto in expert raw mode and the moon is still recognizable at max shutter speed
I use iPhone all the time but I recently bought the s23 ultra and used it for a month and used it mainly for the camera. And honestly its awesome to just zoom in and magnify certain areas thats your eyes wouldnt normally see… and let alone take a beautiful photo of it
And can also add things that doesn’t exist to the photo!
Zoom is one thing. Altering an image is NOT!!!
@@RonLarhz meh. Have you seen the tiktok and snapchat filters? I would say it’s pretty close to replacing
welcome to the darkside 😂😂 enjoy your android.
@@michaeljakeusman 🤣🤣🤣
I live in New Zealand. The moon photo's you're using look upside-down to me. It would be interesting to know if the camera recognises a Southern Hemisphere moon and replaces it in the same way.
It's a good day when Arun uploads.
for real
Ye
It’s a good day when bots like you disappear
Fr
Fk
Idk why its so funny to me that his laptop is shaking😂😂😂3:02
This is why I like Arun. Where other creators simply just 'read out' online articles/blog posts/reddit threads (not a dig at other creators), this guy actually puts in a lot of effort.
I mean they advertise this whole moon shot thing as a separate feature so it's expected they'd apply specific software processing for this particular type of picture
They are known for making fake features and it's not surprising at all 😂😂😂 they are expert for making advertisement and make fun of apple buy they themselves not focusing on improving their feature. What a shame, no wonder samsung flagship phones not selling well😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ckhomphzxspaul8455 and the fanboy is here!
Every single smartphone company does false advertising or mislead the customers, apple does that a lot so does samsung and oneplus and huawei and everyone else, every tech reviewer out there is praising samsung for their innovations and improvement in recent devices (specially s23 ultra) and you're saying samsung doesn’t focus on upgrades? I must say apple has blinded you
And samsung flagships are selling just fine, their folds and flips sales have been increasing at a massive rate year by year, their s series sales have taken a bit of hit but that's because people are more interested in their special innovative foldables not because the quality of their s series has downgraded rather it has increased by a lot
They're known for exploding batteries, and recently they're batteries swollen. But then this? Haha Samsung's bad reputation keep repeating 😂😂😂 Karma is real😂😆😂😆
@@ckhomphzxspaul8455 You're talking about really old devices you know that right? They only had one model with exploding issue and somehow you're making it sound like every device they make explodes
I should've realized I was talking to a kid by looking at the number of unnecessary emojis you use. Well I guess it’s on me
I can only say....grow up! Android has surpassed iphone. Samsung makes better flagships than apple. They take better photos, have a more well rounded and all-rounder camera set, look better, have tons more features and customizations with massive user freedom and no restriction like ios, provide almost the same battery backup as iphones with much faster charging. Even in things like videography, raw performance and longevity, they have come quite close to apple's level
@@flaminggodofthunder the majority of the masses arent that smart and is lazy (at least when it comes to tech) so they will just become locked into the opinions of media and influencers just like this paul and since their brain is turned off you will have a 0% chance of changing their opinion since they arent even listening to you.
This is one big reason why Iphone is so popular because why else would you want a expensive phone where you can only text, call and use the internet, and lets not talk about repairs and how each company thinks of you as a customer
It is really fascinating, how AI has evolved through out the years.
This is just adding details bruh. It's not impressive.
@@fanban2926 look aPpLe FaNbOy now is even trying to say that AI is bad, I agree that Samsung went really far doing this. But cmon dude isn't it fascinating and shocking how far AI has came?
@@fanban2926 how s23 ai add details on super blurry photos?
Isn't it impressive?
Apple fanboi😂
My content is way better than Mrwhostheboss 🗿
how is this relevant?
This is called technology and not foolness
This is one of your best videos. And I also think this is the most definitive piece on this entire debacle. Great job man.
They've been doing this forever. My Note20 Ultra does the same thing. You would think by now it would be basic common sense - any photo zoomed in 50x or 100x besides the moon comes out looking like it was shot on mid-2000s flip phone camera. It stands to reason the single exception which is even further out is being doctored.
For me, the more interesting point about their AI is the use cases their engineers took into account, for example, shots of the moon when the moon is visible during the day, and then colorgrading it correctly.
This is more detailed and more informative than MKBHD's. Great job!
This is easily one of the better analysis of the Samsung "moon shot", so I appreciate you for that.
For me the issue is marketing. Samsung promotes the camera as being able to take a clear moon shot. It doesn't. A (very intelligent, but not with cameras) coworker of mine recently showed me his new Samsung phone and the great moon picture he took with it. As bright as he is, he fell for a marketing ploy.
That's why I disagree with what Samsung is doing. For purely marketing purposes, they're misrepresenting a feature. Dishonesty is something I do not respect.
They aren't lying, they CAN make one hell of a moon shot. using processing.
@@Avaitor_YTI understand what you're saying ,but those are two different things.
@@BillyBobDingledorf You need the camera for it, do you not!?
@@Avaitor_YT The camera alone can't do it. Even the phone alone can't do it. It needs to recognize it as a moon shot, then pull in data from other pictures that were not taken on the phone and merge them. It's a deep fake. If you want to believe deep fakes are the real thing, well...
Wow, Aruin is getting more and more philosophical with these tech videos... Love it
It's Arun not aruin😊
That's AN AMAZING perspective ! This is one of those moments where i feel like a sheep for following something soo blindly , without actually looking deeper into this . Superb video !
5:46 "Recognizing the bits it recognizes"
hmmm yes the floor here is made of floor
😂
the jokes in the middle of the video kind of related to the topic always crack me up XD
While some feel that they've been "mooned" by Samsung, I appreciate what the technology is able to produce. The amount of money one would need to spend on conventional equipment to get that type of shot is considerable, way beyond the cost of the phone. You're a punny guy, Arun. There are times when you deliver 2/3 of a pun. Then again, you surprise us with the occasional home run pun. Keep it up!
If Apple did this, It would have been called a revolutionary feature.
@@yuvtube1 more like the toxic android user (basically 98% of their users) would call apple a literal demon
@@iicarplaying1930 just like the half eaten apple fans are doing in every comment section of tech tubers and forums right now
@@enigmamyth Well because when Android takes a general feature from apple, its a new feature , when apple takes a general feature from android (like always on display) its called copying and what not. I think the Toxic Fan Base of Samsung (Remember the toxic ones) needs to be called out of this. Because if apple did this all the idiots on the internet would be cancelling apple. But when Samsung does it , without telling their customers , it suddenly becomes a new revolutionary innovation....Ya dont try to defend samsung on this one. Android VS IOS conversations are already the most stupidest on the internet. Seriously you cant see a video about apple products and not have people who have never even used the product say its garbage and overprices (even if it isn't , like mac mini or macbook air)
So ya the big point is , These conversations have are worthless, use what you want to..But honsetly samsung deserves to be called out for hiding their 'revolutionary innovation'.
I made a better shot then Samsung on my old 12 mp Nikon D300 from 2007 with a sigma zoom lens an old DSLR with a zoom lens is not that expensive on ebay
This is a tricky one ain't it. I'm personally appreciative that Samsung do this cos the end result is a better photo. Maybe it's a bit wrong that Samsung advertises the awesome moon shot capabilities to influence customers to buy Samsung phones over other brands though 🤔. Another great video though Arun. Love the way you present your content. Perfect ratio of detailed information, mixed with a the right amount of light hearted humour.
P-S- I watched your video on your proposal and I'm so happy for you. She seems a lovely lady and think you got amazing chemistry. All the best for your future together mate. Keep doing what ya doing.
Thank you for conducting proper testing and doing a good unbiased video.
The "if" condition to check if it's a moon in their code is working out great XD
5:20 , Man i loved the rick roll guy embedded into the moon like that. Samsung Wins here for me!!
Explained everything so conveniently and in a great entertaining way! Better video on this topic than MKBHD.
MKBHD is mid.
@@soulcold1 yea he too serious
Also agree and appreciate that he took the time to do his own experiments. Making a video in and of itself isn't easy, but he put in extra effort on top of it to empirically give us more data to work with. All for us in order for us to have, dare I say it, a more accurate picture ;)
thank you Arun. This really showed us something we didn't realise before. You're really great man
@Don't Read My Profile Picture bot
@@LestifyYT I realized lmao
Great video bro, sometimes you release some banger video like this. Never thought about it that way
You’re videos are amazing! You can tell the dedication and hard work you put into them! Also o love how you perfect you videos, but make them humorous as well! You try many ways and different things for research towards your video! Love them.
Thank you for actually doing research and providing a truthful explanation, it was annoying to see the random biased takes on Twitter who had no idea what they were talking about
This was such a great explanation and definitely clears a lot of things for those who were accusing of Samsung faking the whole thing by changing the whole moon when it was infact using both visual and trained images to complement the output shot like most photos are from a smartphone.
As for their marketing, Samsung did talk about their Spacezoom shots being an achievement of the AI enhancing those. But, as years went by they never reiterated the term again aside from saying Spacezoom shots.
This video was needed and hopefully it clears up the issues.
The thing is that it is not really a "space"-zoom feature but rather a "moon"-zoom.
The most sensible thing for reviewers to do from now on is to stop using the moon-shot as a reference point when comparing cameras. Because if the AI can fix the image in a limited scenario then us consumers can't draw any other conclusions for when we want to zoom in at night on other scenes/objects.
Is the superior output due in 90% due to AI? 50%? The idea is that the review/comparison should reflect the camera performance in real life use cases. Sure, Google/Apple also have Neural-Net chips and can train up a model for moon-shots, which will make improve the camera 0% an any other picture other than the moon.
@@stennan Actually if you turn the Scene Optimiser off, you can still take amazing moonshots. If you use, GCAm, pro mode, expert RAW, you can still take very good moonshots from this camera. Even with manual controls, you actually can take moonshots. The periscope lens here can actually capture light information from the moon since the object is bright, stationary in our perspective while taking shots, and stands out in the night sky. So this aspect of comparison should exist but as you said, by default AI does a lot of work, so it is not a right benchmark to use unless Scene Optimiser is turned off or manual shots are used in these particular cases or just not used against devices that don't have them.
I did not know about the Moon photo when I bought my Samsung, I just saw it one night and took it. Yes it was a bit blurry not by much like you show in your video so I adjusted the sharpness.
it's amazing how entertaining and informative aruns videos can be in a relatively short time. great job on the videos arun!
Your videos are getting better and better... You always manage to lift my spirits. Thankyou Mrwhosetheboss
Love it Arun is making holistic videos now not only just smartphone reviews really appreciate it 😊
Lol
@DontReadMyProfilePicture.7 ok im not interested anyway
I just got S23 ULTRA this year and the camera quality is perfect and it's Nightography is superb hands down.
Amazing video!
The actual answer is that they're not faking the photos, but actually using AI to compensate/Sharpen the photos. The claim of that redditor are kinda misleading but not fully incorrect but only 20% correct at best.
You can't sharpen something that is missing details. You can't add details without putting fake pixels in. Hence...it's faking the photos
How can u know all this info in such smol time how
Z
They are faking the images clear as day. If it’s a blurry image with no details then it’s completely faking.
They are faking the photos as the AI is adding and interpolating detail that isn't there to begin with. Just "sharpening" alone won't produce results like that
Well explained.
This is why I trust Mrwhosetheboss and MKBHD tech videos. You guys really take your time to help us understand what's going on.
Dude there is RUclipsr who is from kerala his channel name sarath's neo tech , he also explained about this issue same like arun and he did a day ago... Im not saying arun copied...
@@mishal4912 yeh because he takes a lot of time to make a single video detailed
@@mishal4912 mkbhd are the first one make a video about this so stfu
@@mishal4912 not everyone speaks Malayalam duh
@@gnagna4715 i just said about it bro...
You really made a good and detailed video. I had watched mkbhd and wasn't going to watch this video but i was so wrong 😂.
Huge respect to you man ❤️
Me adding in bullshit data in my engineering classes after I can't meet the requirements before the deadline hits:
Great to hear ur input! Seems like everyone saw that Reddit post lmao. The question of what is a photo is very important to whether Samsung is right/wrong. It's weird how Samsung does admit it in their Korean website they use ai so why did they continue to advertise as with no optimisation?
You can get an actual shot of the moon in pro mode while playing around with the settings.
Cuz people love to shit on Samsung when they finally have a competitive product especially now when apple is refusing to even give a darn about the iphone 14 by releasing the same device even skipping the spec bump.
Tim Cook's bootlickers are everywhere
Even if I watched this in MKBHD, I’m watching it again. Both of you guys are epic! We need a collab. ❤❤❤
What they have done with the camera on this phone is just beyond amazing.
its mostly software you know. The camera itself doesn't need to be amazing..just the software does. Just look at the pixel phones I you want proof of that.
₩2000 have been deposited on your Samsung Account
@Tyrone Tillett Was about to write this lol. Did no one see the results of his experiment? 😂
Anyone else could’ve done this not crazy tech
Like lying
"wanted to be 100% sure I'd tested it myself before I talked about it!"
And that I respect.