Is the Biu Tze REALLY Secret? "Emergency Situations"? | The Kung Fu Genius Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 17 дек 2023
- Alright peeps, on this 151st episode of the Kung Fu Genius Podcast, the KFG (aka Alex Richter) will be answering all sorts of hot nonsense from the Patreons. Lots of gems, lots of Biu Tze never leaves the door, and lot’s of “oh you think Biu Tze is for emergency situations? Show me a fight you've been in that was not an emergency!” Let’s get to it!
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Great show!! I also studied WT in NJ. All of our testing and seminars were in NYC. It's refreshing to hear your no nonsense explanation and approach. I totally heard Sifu Emin when you explained the internalization of technique. Thank you!!!
"I just learned the ABC's now put me in the Spelling Bee. I'm ready!" LOL. Great episode.
*1:06:13. Note to self- don’t teach Biu Tze to the young martial artist close to the Mantis Clan; may turn him into The 🐉.
I am always impressed by Bruce’s Mantis style.
Sifu Alex, it's rare for me to find myself in disagreement with you. Your knack for articulating exactly what's on my mind and offering fresh perspectives that I hadn't considered is something I truly appreciate. However, I do find myself differing on this point. While I agree that any confrontation can be viewed as an emergency, I believe that if an individual possesses the expertise to remain composed under pressure and exert a significant degree of control over their opponent, it doesn't necessarily constitute an "emergency" for them. On the other hand, if their fundamental skills and structure are compromised, I would consider that a genuine emergency. Nevertheless, your insights have provided me with ample food for thought, and I'm grateful for the valuable perspective you bring. Thanks once again for delivering another excellent podcast!
Great point, as a matter of fact, in my upcoming BT book I make that same point. I actually reference a personal experience I had with a cantankerous senior in Hong Kong saying that what constitutes an emergency situation for one person might not for someone else. Therefore, the threshold in which they need to use BT techniques will be different from practitioner to practitioner. But this is exactly why I think this abstention on only using it when you have “approved emergency situations” is kind of silly because anyone can feel that they are drowning very quickly, depending on how the fight got started. I just don’t shove it down my students throat that they’re only allowed to use this in certain situations when it’s about their own personal safety.
SLT is typically used against smaller opponent.
CK is typically used against taller long style or kick style oppenent.
BJ is used against much taller and stronger, more experience opponent, multiple opponent or when you got punched or out of breath. When you start using BJ, time to start running or go and grab a knife or pole or guns. Biu Ji teach you that if you cant win, run and it is ok to chicken out. Biu Ji is when a sifu or father tell their most trusted kids or student how they lose this and that fight. And how he survive and his stupid siheng got killed or stab because he overestimate his wingchun against a knife attack. That is why this secret never go out.
Good explanation.
Very interesting episode and great insight. However, I feel like a certain consideration was not emphasized enough. Keeping it a secret, not teaching it to outsiders still makes pragmatic sense in my opinion if a specific instructor or organization has the primary goal of making money.
And from the perspective of those people, not teaching Biu Tze, or the Wooden Dummy or whatever other, supposedly secret theory or forms they claim to makes it more challenging for the disappointed students who leave the organization to open their own school, since they don't know the full system. Today it's certainly much easier to learn this from Sifu from a different country, but especially in certain parts of Eastern Europe, doing that may be possible for a small fraction of people (due to financial reasons, lack of time to do extended training abroad, etc.), so in essence this attitude helps against the potential competition to some degree. I'm sure you know who I'm referring to specifically.
An funny anecdote, in that organization Biu Tze wasn't treated as the biggest secret, that was the so called "wooden dummy Chi Sao", which was supposedly going to make you practically unbeatable but no one was willing to talk about any of the specifics. It's also interesting to see how beginners want to start with the wooden dummy, I had been doing WT for 4 years and during those years, I've never even seen a wooden dummy, let alone use one. It was all taught at a special and very expensive seminar that I never attended.
I eagerly await your Biu tze book! Great stuff in this podcast,...all angles covered as usual.
Biu Tze still has secrets,...the hardwork will reveal them.
"Biu Tze doesn't leave the gate" can also mean simply that the methods are used close in, between the two gates, aka the arms. Chum Kiu is the elbow distance and out, Biu Tze adds from Lan Sau elbow distance in, the Wu Sau and the Shoulders/Nae Bong. These specialized methods, built on Chi Sau skills from Chum Kiu, are also secret and for beating people who survive against our standard Chum Kiu kick boxing and elbow attacks. So it is also kept behind closed doors for the worthy students. Leung Ting kept his secret so as to let the Bil Gee people expose their lacking of posture pull step and other details close in fighting secrets. Today the old will not learn any new tricks so even if we show them it stays a secret....
Beginners can still learn the techniques, but they are not going to have the skill and experience to do the applications. As you said, the "I know it already" group who never learn to do even the beginning. No short cuts and starting at the end just makes those advanced techniques look like SNT level applications.
As a WT, the third form applications are already used linearly in the Chum Kiu chi sau. Adding the Biu Tze form practice too early will interfer with this practice IMO. People start reaching underneath at the wrong time or folding up a bong sau too easy. So in this way we withhold the third form for longer than other Wing Chun schools do. It is in this phase we find out if the student has really been pushing themselves away or into a turn or if not().
I really like the software patch analogy. I would only add we also then learn to take advantage of "off positions" for our own advantage too, like stepping into their space with a shoulder strike and crab step for example. These fit the over-powering attacks from your earlier BT purposes, but would also be WT secret methods needing our chi sau training to have the skills to execute.
Thanks for your comment, it’s refreshing to have some WT-based feedback. I occasionally get comments from other lineages asking me “why do we do XYZ in Wing Chun?”, only to have to tell them ever so gently that “that’s not what we do at all” or even “ I have no idea what you’re talking about“. LOL.
While the general vibe of what you wrote is non controversial from a WT perspective, there are a couple things that stood out, but one, in particular, that I would like to give my feedback on:
To say that the “BT never leaves the door“ is an explanation of the movements staying within the gate (inside, etc), seems like a tautology of concepts. Keeping the arms in front of us, and therefore keeping them “within the gate” (and not going beyond the shoulder lines) is something that a student would learn day one or day two at the latest. To then repeat this concept in a fanciful phrase as the main thrust of the third form seems silly. If someone didn’t learn this by the third form, I don’t think they’re ever going to learn it. But the phrase is not “WT never leaves the door“ it is specifically “the BT never leaves the door”. (door and gate are used here interchangeably as the Chinese can mean either, lending more problems to translation and context).
But ignoring the abstention of teaching outsiders or unqualifieds, can this phrase be applied to mean the actual shoulder line or edge of the gate as we practice it in our art? Absolutely not.
The BT form in particular is the form that breaks the sagittal plane the most, thereby “breaking/leaving” the gates/doors. Dong faak sau, daai che leun sau (to name the most glaring examples) cannot by any reasonable measure be said to be “inside the gate“ both in the form or in application.
And completely at the risk of sounding like a pompous and arrogant asshole, I do have to say that most of your comments remind me of how I thought about these things prior to learning from the grandmaster. It’s like a trip down memory lane! I recently opened my notebook from my time in Germany, and came up with so many things that have long since forgotten and discarded.
The WT lore (including theories, and ideas on training methods) that came from the western 1980s fighters was great for its time, but it doesn’t all hold up, or is occasionally just half correct. I’ve contemplated writing a book about western Wing Tsun lore and how this was at odds with the Hong Kong system. Theses discrepancies are very interesting, could be quite off base and even funny at times. Mind you the western/European lore was not being pushed from top management. This was all middle management nonsense. Things like each form defeats the previous form, the knives are drawn from the right side, which is why the slant kick is done on the right leg in the knife form, that there’s a secret centerline ON the shoulder (a glaring misunderstanding of in the turning stance the centerline rests on the shoulder), blah blah blah. oh silly funny stuff.
While there are many variations, even within the specific lineage of WT, the “BT never leaving the physical gates of the body“ is something I’m gonna have to veto. It simply doesn’t make sense in terms of how the BT is needed.
Thank You for the excellent and long reply. Spot on, I am exactly that, a 1990's Chum Kiu running on half wrong European riddles....I have no money for lessons anymore, so I have never gotten "inside the doors" of a Grandmasters house from my Biu Tze corrections. HA!
A few clarifying details. Yes, taught the BT lessons from the first day, but it takes so many years to be skilled enough to do it. This is in effect a hallmark of WT.
It is not BT without a proper crab step and adduction turns, triggered from feeling...all of which WT teaches from the start but we have to use SNT and then CK stuff to work our way up. Posture Pull for example, a beginner drill in WT, but once a hidden secret in the 3rd Form. (I would love to know why WC lost this drill?)
On my alternate "does not leave the Gates" koan riddle, I think you did too much with the fine details, but yes, I do not suggest it to be an ancient truth, just something I came up with. The Lan Sau line is the gate line, the cube made by the Lan Sau (as a box top) is "inside the gates." We can also say attacks coming at the cube not on the centerline are coming inside the gates too I guess. The so-called gates actually swing inwards AND outwards, like western saloon doors, so we could have some fun with the analogy for when the doors are pointed into the room instead of out onto the porch....
Biu Tze emergancies often involve reactions at the WU sau distance. So as a method of cataloging training sets with the forms, the BT Chi Sau Sections should initiate "inside the gates." If the Chi Sau set is triggered at the Lan Sau distance or further in is Chum Kiu...Sections 1 to 7.
Defenses to attacks inside this line is what we keep in house. (in WT that is the BT Sections) As you correctly said, a WT is teaching the whole thing the whole time, as fast as the student needs to learn the next step.
@@TheKungFuGenius
17:35 10/10 pronunciation
Thank you
"the tranquilizer" 😅 does dre say these things on purpose? Im the guy having conversations with myself 😅
Gracias Sifu Alex and Team for another great #kungfu #podcast ~I listen in my car from time to time, and look 🆙 the channel on RUclips to say 👋 … and help your algorithms 😉 keep working out hard! Keep learning… always! 💫💐💫
❤Jessica, aka the ‘lost lady of HK23’ 😆
hahah the lost lady of HK23 :) Hope you are doing well!
May the Force be with y'all
Great explanation on what Biu Tze is for and it's application.
I think if the profile picture is the Swedish Chef, that would give chucklesticks69 more cred tbh...
16:33 😂
Homemade chinese on the pit tonight 🤨no fun in Boston right now. Ended up with burnt but delicious chicken, and over cooked noodles. 😂❤god bless me sometimes. 😂ite peep game. I’ll leave many. 😂49:36 very good explanation. I figured something like that with the blending had happened. 1:09:50 that show was mad serious. You helped me realize a couple things I’ve done wrong. Not only that.. the history you gave was profound. That was a deep show. Funny too. 😉☑️💯☕️
So many people are confused about Biu Tze 😉 Thanks for this awesome stuff Sifu Alex. 🙏
Thank you! It’s been a while!
Great explanation of Bil Jee, Thank you 🙏
Great episode! Many thanks :) Best outtakes yet ;)
I’m afraid I fall into the Commenting as I Watch category 😅
Great outtakes once again! Poor Dre!
No. They have BUI GEE in the TAO and CHUM. 😉💯plus, it’s a cornerstone technique everybody knows it. Meaning our way of escaping is so finely tuned to our attacks, that POINTING FINGERS is almost an always go to up close. Kop JAANG. Bui gee. And probably BUI BONG. Hits that are angled seem most important to me with that form. 😇🙌🏼🀄️you go to center, but you SWIPE IN and cover a multitude of space. 😊💯
I would love to hear a discussion about PRAY FOR DEATH.
this has been in discussion!
Yea. I'm def commenter #2
lol
Son of ip man typically give 6mth class .
KFG, is it true that for the season finale you will have the only and official Bruce Lee biographer (Beardy) as a special guest? Asking for a friend.
YES!
Im commenting why watching while you are talking about people comments that comment why watching :)
A teacher who never fight can not share biu ji stories. A teacher who never lose cannot share biuji stories.
Imo thats the wrong interpretation of an emergency. Emergency here reads more like if your grapplin somebody and they're getting the leg up on you so you immediately start wrist locking and heel hooking
That was not the original Chinese context per se, it’s more about getting out of your normal comfort zone in terms of positioning
Also: invoking heel hooking or getting a leg up "in grappling" was most likely not on the minds of the originators of Biu Tze.
@@TheKungFuGenius mmmmmm
@@TheKungFuGenius I'm just using an example there. "Getting a Leg up" is just a figure of speech
Idiomatic expressions notwithstanding, my original comments still hold. Also, what you believe is what’s often known as the historians fallacy - that is when we assume figures of the past thought as we do today. People thought much differently back then, and we need to be mindful not to project our own ideas on that if we are discussing the historicity of a topic. This is not to discuss the modern application, but the point is what the originators thought. It’s also similar to the presentism fallacy in which we place modern ideas onto figures and events of the past.
Another cracking episode.Some of the intro out takes were simply DREadful. (Sorry)😅
Biu Jee, traditionally, is anti-Wing Chun basics. Usually used by the Sifu or closed door disciples as seniority. Not to be used outside the kwoon as it displays anti-Wing Chun techniques to outsiders and also of its lack of “martial virtue” because its aggressive techniques.
And yet it ends fights pretty fast.
@@fletchkeilman2205 Supposedly. Biu Jee is all attacks that penetrate all WC blocks.
SLT = ABC
CK = Making sentences
BJ = there is always a better writer somewhere. Avoid selling your lifework in that market.
SLT - Rick James Lying on the Couch
CK - Rick James Putting Boots on the Couch
BJ - “F*** yo couch, darknesses!”
the Rick James analogy had me in stitches!