Does the scripture only portray half of jesus? On the road to Emmaus Yeshua opened the OT Scriptures and taught them concerning himself. The Scriptures are the only Godbreathed source of doctrine. 1 tim. 3:16 Nothing else is stated in all of Scripture to carry that weight of infallibility.
My brother converted to EO....he is super intelligent and knows his history better than I and unbelieveably better than 90 percent of believers. My brother claims Luther should have turned East instead of rebel against the church
@kathrynmurray6297 All the knowledge and reading means nothing if he is not in Christ. And he is not. Remember what Jesus told to educated of His time - publicans and whores are preceding you... Better be a simple man clinging and holding to Jesus than super educated extremely intelligent enemy of God... 😢
A lot of atheists are super intelligent. And many simple folks are born again believers. Intelligence isn’t a sign of biblical wisdom. “Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”” Luke 18:17 ESV
That's because EO is rooted in a longer chain of history than Reformed, we are also catechized (or supposed to be) with basic church history and theology. Luther said '*The truth is with the Greeks*' but for some reason never sought union with them. However some of his early Lutheran theologians of Tubingen had a very polite correspondence with Patriarch Jeremiah of Constantinople II in the 1570s regarding the Augsburg Confession. After about a year of writing back and forth it became apparent that Orthodoxy and Lutheranism creeds and dogmas were not going to be compatible and the relations fizzled out. There is a whole book on this topic, George Mastrantonis, Augsburg and Constantinople.
But Luther didn't rebel. He put his 95 thesis to the Wittenberg doors and they excommunicated him. Thats what they dont get. Luther was trying to Reform the RCC to scripture. He wasn't trying to divide himself from it.
@@BRUISER14 Now many followers of Jesus the Messiah are witnessing to reformed calvinists. What a world. Hopefully some of these cult members will turn to Jesus. Reformed calvinists are so hardened in their deception yet there is still hope.
29:02 Literally one simple Google search gives: _"For the Orthodox, anathema is not final damnation. God alone is the judge of the living and the dead, and up until the moment of death repentance is always possible. The purpose of public anathema is twofold: to warn the one condemned and bring about his repentance, and to warn others away from his error."_
@@disguisedcentennial835 1.) These two were talking in the context of the NOW 2.) The Orthodox changed the definition of anathema you say, well, back it up with a source! 🙂
@@tgrogan6049 Okay, you make a claim. Any source to back up that claim? So, same question to you as to DisguisedCentennial above; You claim the Orthodox church has changed the definition of "anathema" over time, where's the source for this?
My own experience seems too complicated to be explained in a few sentences, but in a nutshell is this: I grew up in a traditional Eastern Orthodox family, but teenage years lead me to a rebellious, sinful life ; Later i got involved in the modern movement of meditation until i realized it's an organized religion, when i went to Thailand; I also had the opportunity to get to know closely muslim people and their faith ; And during my time in London, i explored different denominations as i thought there was no difference between Christians, so i went to Pentacostal gatherings a few times ; i went to the nearby Methodist hall once or twice ; i used to sing with Baptists more often than the others ; i talked to JW knocking on my door and invited them in my house (because of love) ; i met people from the Adventist movement and learned about their belief ; i met two young boys, who gave me their book of Mormons and insisted on saying a prayer with them at the coffee shop ; i even learned about the Rastafari religious movement... Until, i finally went back to the original faith of the Apostles, the true Church founded by God through our Lord Jesus...at first, i was so convinced that the Orthodox church cannot be true because of the icons, but after months of praying, fasting and reading the Bible, one answer was revealed after another to the point where i learned the Truth right from its original source - The Old Testament, where in 2 Kings 13:21 we have an example of holy remains making miracles as it is still to this day in the Eastern Orthodox Church ! Contemplating on the realities of our so confused world of different faiths today, i also discovered another simple truth- most of the religious organizations that i had the chance to encounter follow an individual voice- Buddha, Muhhamad, the Pope, some pastor or prophet in the evangelical denominations, etc. , while in the Eastern Orthodoxy it has always been the collective voice that matters- major decisions have been made during the first 7 ecumenical councils and this is actually an example given by the first apostles in Jerusalem, when "they all joined together" to decide who to replace Judas ( Acts 1:12-26 ) Another interesting fact is that if i decide tomorrow to go to an Orthodox service in an Arabic country, for example, the music, the surroundings, the sacraments will be the same as it is in my local Orthodox church, which is a clear sign of the universal nature of our Church. What is more, it is an implementation of God's prayer for His children - to be all one ! The divine liturgy is a true union in Christ that has been celebrated for centuries (the liturgy of st John Chrysostom for example has been celebrated since the 5th century!). Perhaps there are many more things that we could add to this, but hopefully this helps at least one soul on the way to the Truth and the Life in the Holy Universal Apostolic Church!
@@jacobthelehman7081 the first book that i found by chance at home (probably my grandfather left it) and that opened my heart to the reality of the Eastern Orthodox beauty is Life of Saint John of Kronstadt (1829 - 1908) Eastern Orthodoxy is not simply a religion or a rational phylosophy but a way of life, an existential experience of God's uncreated energies , theosis through purification and theoria...
@@jacobthelehman7081 as for youtubers, i guess there are some, i found this a very well explained short summary - ruclips.net/video/1EK0itG_rUI/видео.html
@@MaximusAugustusOrthodox meiner Meinung nach ist die Orthodoxie nicht katholisch da sie nicht wirklich universell ist zum Beispiel in Berlin kann ich nicht mal wirklich in eine Gemeinde gehen die eine ist serbisch die andere russisch verstehe da nichts da ist Liturgie meist kritisch ist nicht nur in Deutschland so. Und die Apokyrphen warum die einfach in den Kanon aufgenommen wurden trotz scheinbaren vielen Fehlern zum Evangelium und der Lehre Christi.
I’m just trying to be Orthodox. I have family issues for now that are preventing me from attending but I’m convinced. Even I see how Protestants charging people with heresy is laughable. I grew up Baptist and from what I’ve seen of Protestantism they can’t find their ass with both hands.
@@1967-l7hneither does attempting to “rediscover” the truth 1500 years after the founding of the Church show any degree of Humility like all of Protestantism is built on.
Honestly, I have been a non-Orthodox Pastor for over 33 years. The Protestant Churches need to soul search as so many have fallen to the modern agendas. I 100% understand why people are leaving in droves. Scandal after scandal, separating faith from works etc…The video should be balanced with “Rock and Sand” parts 1 and 2.
Bruh... if people have been "leaving the church in droves" in protestant churches... then what do you call what's been happening in Orthodoxy, hemorrhaging? lol. Also, are you suggesting the catholics or orthodox haven't had scandals? lol. Its all of them and everywhere. Its also happening outside of christianity.
20:44 I’m a convert to Orthodoxy from Protestantism and I was taught that the cross was many things in my catechism. I was taught that it was penal substitutionary atonement, but not just that. That Jesus defeated death by his death, but not just that. So I’m not sure how this man was taught about the Orthodox Church, but it’s not what I’ve been taught at all. I also have seen Christian community unlike any church I’ve ever been to within the Orthodox Church. That is what convinced me to join: imperfect people loving God and each other. I had gone to numerous churches looking for the community I ultimately found in Orthodoxy.
I am new to learning about orthodoxy but that is what I have gathered as well. I don't think EO would have any problem with John Chrysostom's teaching on the subject.
My favorite Reformed quirk: they never speak to current Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox clergy. They always speak to those who have rejected Rome and the East as if that will be the best and most unbiased way to understand what they believe and teach.
I just want to say that while i have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from being a Non-Denominational evangelical. I appreciate the level of rigor and integrity that you display in your content.
Maybe that's because every debate with active Catholics or orthodox followers ends up being useless because they refuse to be open to the biblical truth that goes against their man-made religious traditions. It's an exercise in futility.
Hah. Let me guess. Being open to biblical interpretation to you means only some fat gay priest wearing long robes can tell me what the Bible says. I'm too dumb to read it and figure it out myself, like say, the Bereans.
Thomas had a painting of Jesus from 50 AD... its in India where he is buried. Its an icon of Mary and the baby Jesus, so yes, they did paint Jesus in the first century
@@amakrid Which the righteous Hezekiah made a thousand pieces, and they used it to make brass tools and vessels and dishes. And even as the first iconoclast in the Bible he was praised by God 2 Kings 18:1-7 2Kin 18:7: And the LORD was with him; Bible > Seventh “ecumenical” >
Even if the EOC is wrong (which I don’t believe) PC is full of disunity. There is a constant changing. I’ve been in every evangelical church and there is something new all the time. It reminds me of the house built on the sand.
@@Death2Compromise has it ever occured to you that things need to be reassessed from time to time? That our interpretation of ancient texts can be colored by modern understanding? That maybe, the eastern Christians are not magically exempt from this tendency?
@@Death2Compromise you follow a script. There have been protestant innovations. That's true. There have also been orthodox innovations. No church father before Nicea believed that divorce was permissable. Nor did they permit military service. Nor did they allow for images. Your church has had many innovations since the early days. All churches have had changes and innovations. Yours isn't magic and exempt from these historical tendencies to evolve and change.
@@Bigchickens wrong example. Ukrainian authorities are kicking out the Ukrainian Orthodox church because they accuse it of working on Putin(in Ukrainian mass media the Ukrainian Orthodox church often called Moscow church). And besides that there is no hate toward each other inside the Ukrainian or the Russian Orthodox churches. Also they have common dogma and a lot of common saints and celebrate the same feasts on the same dates.
The heresy of all heresies. even the reformers couldn't agree. they killed each other over it & finally settled on freemasonry, - came to America, leaving God and all the is holy completely out of the equation.
@@kevinmiller6443 2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter If St. Paul is telling those who were taught by him to listen to his verbal instruction, then how can it possibly be "Scripture alone", its a direct contradiction to what St. Paul is saying
@@VampCaliber Notice how the verse you are referencing mentions "spoken word" and "or by letter." The traditions they handed down were backed up by scripture, so that cults couldn't come along and make up new traditions like the RCC, EO, Mormon, etc. religions. The "spoken word" was the preaching of the written scriptures. The reason he brought up "spoken word" and "letter" there is because they do not contradict each other, but act as an error checking system to identify anti-Christs and posers. This is conveyed all throughout scripture. Take the Bereans in Acts 17 for example. When Paul came preaching to them, they referred to the written word (letter) to verify if what he was saying was the truth. Acts 17:11. THAT is an actual scriptural example of "sola scriptura" that was not only identified by Paul himself, but encouraged. Not only that, but it proves that the scriptures existed before both the EO and RCC could try to take credit for them.
23:50 I have never heard any rejection of penal substitution in Orthodoxy. They do exactly what Pastor Joel did - say there are multiple aspects to the atonement, but some are more primary than others. In addition, Schooping said they emphasize Christus victor and again that is not my experience at all. I have read books, listened to lectures, and talked personally with Orthodox priests and Schooping is out of step with all of that in this video. I am sincerely confused here because Schooping seems to have somehow been an Orthodox priest without having an understanding of theosis. Schooping's passing remark about the emphasis being more on the incarnation than on the crucifixion is in agreement with what I've encountered, but beyond that he is giving a picture of the atonement in Orthodoxy that seems distorted from my investigations into it. I'm not an Orthodox Christian and not attempting to defend it, I just don't see Schooping's characterization of the Orthodox view of the atonement to be an accurate representation of Orthodox theology. Orthodox theosis is not Christus victor.
Very good. Orthodox theosis is different and is more akin to becoming or returning to state or relationship with God and Adam before the fall. You have to remember Orthodox canon has more statements about what not to believe than what to believe. The Church sets up guardrails rather than dictates what every mystery means. Stay within the guardrails and your OK with the Church.
I’m Protestant (southern Baptist) and have been reading 1st century fathers, Orthodoxy dogma and am confused with Schooping because, as you say, his views are distorted and confusing (especially on the subject of “idols”)
@@tjkhan4541 Oh yes, it's called Church history; Theology; doctrinal development; where Augustine made novel additions and permanent influences; Post Apostolic / Ante-Nicene tradition + the consensus of the Greek Father's: i.e., Athanasius, Cappadocian's to John of Damascus etc, etc, etc... The 5 points are utterly absent. Yes sin affects us on every level of being and doing, and without Christ we are still in need of relational reconciliation. But total inability and utter bondage of the will is not found amongst my references. Yes Grace from first to last... But NOT the compatibilism of Reformed / Calvinistic tradition with it's meticulous determinism. This is heresy to the Orthodox who maintain the above mentioned tradition of the early Church X
"As reformed Christians" followed shortly by the "they both love their idols" strawman tells us all we need to know about the host and the truthfulness of the content.
I am a life long protestant. I am deeply looking into orthodoxy, and I, an uneducated layperson, recognize that your arguments are either 1) ignorant or 2) trickery. God bless you and your pursuing of Christ and God lead me where ever he goes.
As a former reformed minister who converted to EO, I found this to be an interesting interview for numerous reasons. 1. There are theologies that you could question, but these guys failed to mention those couple. Simply, the interviewee should do a little more homework and resist the urge to tell half the story when explaining beliefs. 2. It is a curious twist of truth that he puts on a number of issues bc he, as does the interviewer, starts with their current working theology in mind to explain what Christians should have always believed, though they clearly haven’t always believed It is quite the sad thing to hear anyone explain Christianity through a 20th/21st century western lens instead of the lens in which it was established. Poor guys If the interviewee couldn’t handle being Orthodox, I get it, but don’t try to convince people that it’s wrong because you couldn’t handle the Orthodox Christian life. Moreover, solo theolgia (which seems to be practiced by these guys) is what has led to the creation of 20,000+ denominations in America, while Orthodoxy remains fairly stable. Another question, these guys spoke of the “reformed” church. Where in the U.S. do we see God at work in and through the reformed churches? I don’t know of any; rather, just disenchanted people ready to beat the world over with their Bibles (which were put together by Orthodox bishops back in the day)
I was muslim became Christian and protestant church is full of selfish people and they playing with bible text to beat each other i dont like them att all i stil believe in Christianity but i leave the church for good
My theory, the Great Schism hurt the church badly. If there was never a great schism we would have worked out our errors and issues sooner and more effectively and we wouldn’t have 1000+ denominations
It was precisely the inability to work out errors that caused the schism, wasn't it? It seems like saying the schism prevented working out errors is backwards. Like saying if it hadn't been for World War 2 then Hitler wouldn't have invaded Poland.
technically there was no schism. Meaning, it was not the Church that broke in two. The Franks infiltrated Rome for political purposes: to expand their empire. THE Church is never in schism. It is ONE. And Rome simply became hostages of the Franks.
@user-tg5mq8ky2y It has profited the church. The EO and RCC are obsessed with practices that are not under pinned by scripture. God bless the protestors....
“God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.” ST. John Chrysostom
Yup, and then Chrysostom will turn around and say you need to be baptized (a work) to be saved, and also that you can lose your salvation. Do you believe this?
“I mean about diligence in almsgiving, and about helping our neighbour by all means which we are able to use, since it is not possible to be saved in another way.” St John Chrysostom "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself". - Matthew 22:35-40 "And the second is like it" = it amounts to the same thing, it is Christ's commentary on what it means to love your God with all your heart. The first Commandment is from Deuteronomy, the second from Leviticus, they are not stated together in this specific relationship in the Old Testament.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 notice how Chrysostom says you are justified by faith alone but says you are saved by works. It is far more likely that he uses the saved elastically to refer to sanctification and glorification
@@aslan2709- It is far more likely that St John Chrysostom uses the word "saved" to refer to the Great Commandment where faith in God means to believe in the equality of human beings and, therefore, in good works. The Orthodox Liturgy is written by St John Chrysostom and it is far more likely that the Orthodox Liturgy carries over what the Saint meant rather than a Protestant interpretation of Christianity that lacks apostolic succession and has been invented 15 centuries after Christ in a vacuum.
I was protestant for 30 years. And very into my faith. I always wanted more, because I wanted to know Christ more. After 30 years, I have become an Orthodox Christian. It truly is the fullness of the Faith. I will forever be grateful for the lessons I learned in my youth as a Protestant. Without it, I may never have reached this point. Christ is King. Amen.
Salvation is by grace through faith, not by attending a building on Sunday or by getting baptized by priests. Ephesians. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
@@NaturallyCreated by grace through faith which works through love, "So also faith, if it has no works, is dead by itself." (James 2:17). So, if there's no works of faith, if there's no obedience to Christ's commandments such as to "be baptized by a priest", there's no love to God, and there's no saving faith.
I am a Protestant but sympathetic to EO. In my view, the strengths of Orthodoxy are as follows: 1) the customs and procedures don't change, which protects them from modernism (rock music, ugly buildings, taking things lightly, ugliness in general). 2) they have good music. 3) Good architecture. 4) they take worship very seriously, and everything looks solemn. On the other hand, what concerns me is the following: 1) they say that they are THE church, and I see a lot of talk online about how you have to be in the church to be saved. 2) they don't seem to have a clear teaching on salvation. I see a lot of "you just come into the church, and then Theosis." 3) Praying to saints is a dubious endeavor at best. As for a lot of the Protestant denominations, I think the biggest problem is the lack of culture and tradition. They don't seem to have any regard for beauty, and they just change their practices continuously based on whatever music is playing on the radio or whoever they can get to build their buildings. If you change the music all the time, then how can sing along during the worship service? Also having screens instead of hymn books is a terrible idea. It seems lazy, and shows you treating the worship service more like a concert than a serious event. Also, books still work even when the power is out. So there we are.
The teaching on salvation is simple: Become a member of the Church; Because, yes, the Church is One. Baptism is the entry point, unless you've had a previous Trinitarian Baptism(most non-Orthodox don't do triple immersion like we do, and always have done) and your Bishop decides you'll be Chrimated instead. I wanted Baptism, insisted on it, so I went to ROCOR, where I was Baptized. Now, having been initiated Into the Church, do what the Church does and always has done. Repent. Continue repentance; Take up your Cross and follow Jesus until you die, in the arms of His Body. There's a lot to unpack, but it's not that hard. "If you love Me, keep My Commandments."
@@nicodemuseam So you guys really do think that church membership + baptism is what saves? In that case were Peter the Great and Irene of Athens saved? Those are just two examples off the top of my head but I can think of more.
@@nicodemuseam Hi, I'm a former Protestant. I was baptized by a Protestant pastor (Lutheran) in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, though, not triple immersion. This occurred in a natural body of water. Now, I'm not one to desire the Pharisaical "jot & tittle" style of overly zealous religiosity that appears to plague ancient religious traditions, but I *am* an Orthodox Christian catechumen, so, I was wondering what your opinion on my future baptism or charismation should be. Is being re-baptized utmostly necessary? The Lord did say that one would be enough.
@@ChristAliveForevermore The standard answer is: Do whatever your Bishop tells you to do. You may know of the controversy in our day regarding the reception of converts: I myself wanted to be re-baptized when I was received five and a half years ago because I leaned toward the Rigorist position of "no Mysteries outside the Church," so I went to ROCOR where I would be Baptized instead of being received by Chrismation with the Antiochians, even though I had a Trinitarian baptism in some World Harvest church years ago. At this moment, I think I hold more of a Royal Path position. I think all Baptisms should be done according to the Apostolic form, and I don't believe that people should be denied Baptism if they ask for it, but I don't believe that someone will somehow be in trouble if they're received by Chrismation; As I understand it, Chrismation imparts the grace that it is intended to seal in that case(the grace of Baptism), since the sanctifying grace of the Mysteries is not without or outside of the Church. If you have any further questions, I definitely advise talking to your Spiritual Father; He's the one who will be initiating you in any case.
Would love to see this same discussion but with someone who is still an EO priest and not a former EO priest. It would be really interesting to hear this conversation with an EO priest who is formerly Reformed and hear why they are no longer Reformed and are now EO.
See Peter Gilquist's book Becoming Orthodox or James Bernstein's book Surprised By Christ. If you're willing to put in the effort of reading or listening to books rather than just watching a short video, both of those are about this subject exactly - Orthodox priests documenting their journey from being Protestant pastors to becoming Orthodox.
There are many. Jay Dyerrcis a good one - many vids, very knowledgeable. Also a leader of Campus Crusade for Christ- Fr Peter Gilquist- he and 20000 evangelical all became Orthodox-. These guys here know nothing.
Josiah Trenham’s book & interview Rock & Sand are a good rebuke of the thinking of these 2 who speak from ignorance. He was a minister, very educated by top reformer theologians before becoming an Orthodox priest. Jay Dyer was also reformed.
I would be very careful calling anything the Doxies believe "heresies." The Creeds of the early Church were systematically designed to keep heresies out of the Church: The Orthodox and Catholics still hold to the Creeds same as we do (or should). On anything else there is room for disagreement. A heresy suggests it will damn the believer.
@lausdeo4944 They claim it verbally, deny it practically. They preach totally another Gospel, you can read about them in Galatians 1,8-9. Yes, they're utter blasphemers and heretics no need to be careful here.
@@luboshcamber1992 oh the irony, the Orthodox defends the Trinity and it's unity and your tradition blasphemes and separates it with penal substitution atonement theory.
No, you all hold the Creeds that the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox hold to and defined (you know any Bishops at the Council of Nicea from Germany, Holland, England, Scotland, etc) , and in the case of Protestants, the Latin Church passed on to you since everything North of the Alps from Poland to the British isles was brought into Christendom via the Church of Rome (Latin Church).
The gentlemen expert/ex-priest was Orthodox for about 30 seconds before being ordained…and just as quickly left the priesthood (comparatively speaking). I don’t know why anyone would take him seriously about anything related to Orthodoxy. These videos are mostly filled with strawmen and done in bad faith. This host thinks he’s Matt Walsh. 😂
Right. This former priest is hardly a credible "whistleblower" about Orthodoxy. He clearly should never have been a priest to begin with. If anything, his leadership is at fault for letting him proceed so quickly into ordination based on his past "credentials" etc. Converts should wait 3-5 years or so (at least) before even entertaining vocations. Now we have this guy is loose on the internet spreading flat-out misrepresentations of a faith he actually never understood himself. This host would do better to interview an actual current Orthodox priest and have a good faith exchange. This guy is just bitter and both he and the host sound almost hilariously defensive in these "expose" style videos.
@@magnusbekkestad I don’t see agnosticism and indifference. People flee to Orthodoxy as a refuge from these things. That’s sorrowful that you left. May the Lord have mercy on us all, and I hope you haven’t given up entirely yet…
No, we're just waking up to the Satan's lies that EO and RCC told for 60years that they are also a part of the kingdom of God and we must never question their theology. You're coping and seething because we are waking up to the pagan roots to your religion and are fighting back.
Lord have mercy on the former priest, may God guide him back to the Truth! ❤ I would point him to the verse which says that the Church is the "pillar and foundation of Truth" and that the Church will "never fall to the gates of Hades", which the former priest now denies as a protestant.
@@JWM75 so the followers of Arianism (the belief that christ isn't God, yet Christ is the person by which we go to God) are the Church just as much as the Mormons, JW, etc etc etc are? The Truth is One, for Christ is One, and He is the Truth The Pillar and Foundation of Truth is the Church (according to the Bible)
@JWM75 exactly, and what does He say (through divine inspiration of St. Paul) is the "pillar and foundation of Truth"? The Church. Not your personal interpretations or your heretical protestant (JW, Calvinist, Mormon, etc etc +10,000 denominations) "churches"
I see- like many , you’ve both conflated a few examples of Christian Orthodoxy to equal all Orthodoxy . I came from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy - I have prayed and studied ending up a reformed Protestant , our historical Christian. That path of seeing Truth took me out of any local church in the South . My personal library matches your guests off 400 volumes including Sproul, Packer , Calvin , Augustine, MacArthur, Surgeon etc - to sum it up, I was protesting as a Protestant against manmade churches a literally would watch new ones pop up overnight- most times due to Protestant church splits over dogma, money, preaching styles or hurt feelings. So I’d Love to hear, if Orthodoxy isn’t Christ’s Church then WHAT church represents His Church here on Earth? The 50 versions of Baptists? Or the 6 versions of Methodists? Or the Presbyterians? Or the Penecostals famous in the South… wait maybe it’s myriad evangelicals churches called community churches AD NAUSEUM ! But it seems you’re leaning towards Calvin and Augustine so maybe it’s the bastardized non church of RC, MacArthur, Ravi and others … All members of different DENOMINATIONS and with thousands of unique denominations Protestants have no TRADITION, - your slippery slope continues to place the way for churches founded in NOTHING, while Orthodoxy holds fast to Tradition, Scripture and rock solid Biblical beliefs like male only priests, no accepting LBGTQ pastors, biblical family oriented congregations and TRUTH from day one aligning with the entire Bible . For the most part, like 95% of Protestants (as you know, those that protest) have no foundation… when offended by God’s Word you move on, creating yet another Church of Christ #9. To your points of ecumenical authority - please do tell… what ECUMENICAL authority brings together all Protestants aligning under what authority? That’s easy =NONE . You’ve never aligned, you never will - Why? Because you place man first versus Christ first. In Protestant churches by large it’s preached and taught Jesus is your buddy, ie., Joel Osteen or Rick Warren - need a better parking space? Ask your buddy Jesus for it! Protestants have no fear of God, no reverence, what’s ok today can change tomorrow , a person claims they’re called to preach? Great get her up there so we can all be misled - shame on you both , Lord Jesus Christ mercy on us
What are you even trying to say here??? That having denominations is bad? Are you a Catholic and think that there should only be ONE CHURCH and the Pope is its messenger?
@@JohnDorian-j7x reread their comment, they literally started off saying that they are Eastern Orthodox. They converted from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy. Catholicism is totally different. Eastern Orthodox Christians do not fall under the authority of the Pope. That’s in large part why they separated from the Catholic Church to begin with.
Then why are they talk about how bad having other denominations are? Why are they saying no one should be able to set up their own church? It sure sounds like they're arguing for a single and established leader of the church to lead the flocks in the "right direction"... which of course, that single powerful authority is the one who controls said end.@@faithorr4895
Church is any where 2 or 3 born again believers gather. We are save by grace through faith. Not of works its a gift from God. Salvation isn’t in church membership or in getting baptized. The thief on the cross was never baptized but went to paradise with Jesus.
I am currently a Baptist, but I am very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy. I feel an extreme calling to read the history of my faith and to put the Bible into the context of the Church. Something that is sorely lacking in modern day Protestantism. I see so many people online saying that EO believers lack Christ, which couldnt be further from the true. The EO Church, to me, has a far greater understanding of Christ and His relation to the Father and Holy Spirit than any other denomination. How can you "accept" Christ but reject the Church that he has created? I cettainly cannot, which is why I am studying for myself.
@@reformedcatholic457 You could definitely make the argument that Anglicanism or Lutheranism is the way to go for a more traditional Protestant experience. However, I think it's a cope for someone to be exploring Christian tradition and history to then land on Anglicanism or Lutheranism as an alternative to modern day Baptists or Evangelicals. I mean, you have about 1500 years of time between Christ walking on Earth to the formation of either of the two denominations. At well as the many problems each of these denominations are facing in modern day society. I'm not saying Orthodoxy is free of issues, but Orthodoxy seem like a far more stable Church than anything Anglicans or Lutherans have to offer. Just my opinion.
@@reformedcatholic457 No, he doesn’t need the man made traditions and dogmas of Martin Luther, Philip Melanchthon, Jacob Andreae, Martin Chemnitz, Nicholas Selnecker, David Chytraeus, Andrew Musculus, Christopher Koerner and Johann Gerhard.
@Paul-el4zd Everyone has tradition that are man made, question is whether they're biblical or harmless. For an example the sign of the cross is man made such as the sign of the cross which St. Cyprian explained and goes no further in history but it's harmless. So, what is the man made tradition in Lutheranism?
@@reformedcatholic457 For example, the man made doctrines of sola scriptura, sola fide. All Protestants, including Lutherans reject the normative authority of the Church Catholic-holy Orthodoxy. Christ gave us a visible church, guided by the Holy Spirit, not an invisible church with no real authority.
@@MrWesford John 1:1 and John 1:14. Christians uphold scripture because of those verses, among others. We don't worship the bible, but the "word made flesh" -> Jesus Christ
We must pray for all people that are a product of the schism. For a lot of People that enter the Orthodox Church came out of Protestantism. I myself met Jesus on the campus of the university of Arizona many years ago from a campus minister preaching the gospel and I thank God for that occasion daily. Later in my walk with Christ I realized that something was missing and that which was missing was acknowledging the importance of tradition, history and the realization that God wants us to acknowledge the five senses which he wants us to experience while attending church. Orthodoxy is the fulfillment of everything a Christian needs. Message to all who attend the ancient churches: Pray for our Protestant brothers and sisters and let stop fighting and arguing. We must unite. There’s too much evil in the world and the enemy loves division. God bless everyone.
The schisms produced the (Nestorian) Sasanian-Persian unorthodox AntiChurch, the (EuTychian) Coptic-TewaHedo unorthodox AntiChurch, the (Photian-Kirillic) NeoPlatonic Greco-Russian unorthodox AntiChurch, the ("pornocratic") Frankish Latin uncatholic AntiChurch, and the protestants. JeruSalem lost Apostolic Succession in 422. AntiOch lost Apostolic Succession in 428. Alexandria lost Apostolic Succession in 444. ConStantinoPolis lost Apostolic Succession in 877. Rome lost Apostolic Succession in 896. Moscow never had Apostolic Succession.
This is a beautiful comment. I never thought of it this way, that you engage all five senses in the Orthodox Liturgy. You see the liturgy. You hear the liturgy. You smell the liturgy in its incense. You touch the icons and the priest's garment, and also the floor when you prostrate. You taste the Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@JohnDorian-j7x God decides. I can say this as someone who lived for 20 years as a Protestant....there is no "working out your salvation with fear and trembling". God did something so there's nothing to work out. There is no established way to live out the Christian life except getting other people to take that altar call. The Orthodox Church perfectly understands the nature and development of the human soul, and everything one does in the Church, from the services, to the prayer life, to the church community....everything is designed to shape the human person, to grow them into someone who loves Christ more and is closer to Him. It's *not* that there is no salvation outside the doors of the Orthdox Church(again, God decides)....it's that the path of salvation and becoming truly reformed in God's image and likeness is nowhere as clearly laid out as it is in the Church. And everyone should get to experience that.
Can you discuss in another series how Protestantism explain St Cyril closed the Council of Ephesus with an Akathist to Theotokos? As a Byzantine Catholic who grew up in a Dutch Calvinist I find it helpful to have an irenic conversation. Especially when we can find anomaly in any traditions. For an example Luther and Calvin believed Theotokos was ever virgin until her death. But most Protestants don't profess this.
@@albusai Nope. She was betrothed (not married) to Joseph, an older widower. The term "brother" was used for close relatives, and even now we speak of step-brothers, etc. One of the Apostles is commemorated as "James, the *Brother* of the Lord" by the Orthodox, who simultaneously believe in the ever-virginity of the Mother of God, as they always have. The real question for Protestants is: Why don't you believe what your own founders believed? Luther and Calvin would be drummed out of the churches which bear their names nowadays for their beliefs about the Virgin Mary.
I'm glad this man left the priesthood of Holy Orthodoxy... It is quite clean he does not understand it in the slightest... I hope in time the Lord will show him love and mercy and call him home. ☦️☦️☦️
Oh. And you are better than him and God has chosen you over all people? You must be admiring yourself. You was wise enough to reach that right gnostism wich leads you to orthodoxy and therefore to salvation.
@@JAB541 i am eastern orthodox. But some orthodox believers seems to think that orthodoxy is gnostism. I mean that you need to have certain knowledge in order to be saved. Many people around a globe does not know anything about church history nor teachings of fathers. They barely have new testament and they just believe what they have. In china forexample underground christians do not have lot of information maybe just some parts of new testament BUT they have lot more zeal than we avarage orthodox believers have. They are willing to die for they faith and they deny themself and go jail becouse they want to proclaim the good news to other people also. And what do we avarage orthodox people do?? Most just live life like all other people who dont have any religion. We have lot of knowledge (gnostis) but what do we do about it? In Filokalia it is written that knowledge without practise is only for bad.
I am a sinner, and if I'm not faithful or repentant enough, then I will reap what I sow. But I am no apostate. I'm praying for you Joshua. You have committed a great sin. Lord have mercy on us both.
@@MinisterRoy205 Whenever God says its enough; Fear God and work righteousness. "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
With titles like this for videos, I don't blame people for being atheists! I'm Greek Orthodox I have nothing against Roman Catholics who believe as we do, in what the Apostles Creed declares. I love my Protestant brothers and sisters too and their love for Jesus Christ as much as I do. What I dislike is politics in the church. I understand that doctrine matters but I believe simply knowing and understanding the Holy Trinity and communing with the Holy Spirit matters the most.
This is the most important and most overlooked comment on this entire topic that I’ve found so far. Well said. I agree. I know we all have some major things that keep us from exactly communing together, but we are all Christ’s if we keep the Word, the Creed, His Commandments, and the Sacraments. Church government, semantics, and culture difference makes the dialogue hard.
This. 1000× this. Being in Holy Communion with the Apostolic Church of Christ is frankly a gift during these confusing times, but the true kernel that begets Salvation is faith in Christ our Savior. God is great enough that faith in Christ saves by His grace. May the Holy Spirit guide all of His children to His Church wherein we may all partake in Holy Communion together. Lord, have mercy on us all, for we are sinners...
One of my favorite aspects of Orthodoxy in my conversion so far is the veneration of Mary. She’s the single most significant human (other than Christ) of all time. She consented in complete free will and obedience to be the gateway for the Son of God to become incarnate as man. In her womb Heaven and Earth met and she became the Mother of God. She lived her whole life choosing not to give into her sin, showing us exactly what all of us can be capable of. She is more honorable than the cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim, seated in Heaven below God alone. It’s shameful how the past 20 years of my Protestant upbringing chose to view her as nothing more than a vessel. How easy it was for them to cast her aside every day, only mentioning her during one day of the year. It is because of her that salvation was able to come into the world through Christ’s sacrifice. You’re right, she isn’t God, but your belief that she isn’t worth of veneration only shows your unwillingness to recognize that she had courage and faith beyond that of anyone to ever live. I truly feel sorry that have such a limited mindset on who you’re allowed to so appreciation for
@AsielCruz-Gonzalez No. That's not what I'm saying. When there is a schism people are not leaving the Christian faith, but still within Christianity depending on the theology.
Yeah Episcopalians and Methodists have both schisemed from themselves within the last 2 years. Protestantism is crumbling whereas The Holy Orthodox Church is growing rapidly, especially here in the United States.
such flawed logic. For the times in history when Protestantism boomed faster that EO would you claim that Protestantism was the correct faith and EO was wrong? No, you wouldn't because you're a liar like Satan whom you serve.
53Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread which came down from heaven-not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum. Many Disciples Turn Away 60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?” 61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
@@deekay2680 As a baptised Greek Orthodox Christian, I believe it’s wrong and prideful to say these people aren’t Christians and that any one particular church is the One True Church.
@@sotiriosnovatsis4529 they follow a different gospel. They do not follow the apostolic gospel as given. Hence they are outside of the church as it was given- by their own deliberate decision, mind you, starting with the Frankish popes. They said they wanted to be separate and follow doctrines of men. It’s actually their proclamation not mine. Salvation is God’s alone but He gave us His path to holiness- His Church-which they vehemently reject. They can’t have it both ways. It’s not prideful to point out heresy- as the Apostles taught us. Not my own personal ideas. It is prideful for any individual to put their own ideas above apostolic teachings. Unfortunately all of western sects do that- they were all products of the enlightenment/age of reason in the middle ages. We pray for all to come to His Church and be healed. Eleison . Translated as ‘mercy’ but it literally means ‘heal’. His church is a spiritual hospital that offers spiritual medicine in the holy mysteries. It is not a courtroom- as western sects have. They redefined sin as a crime - whereas the gospel teaches it is an illness. Big difference. Burning people at the stake exclusively in western sects- whether Joan of Arc or the Salem witch trials- there is none of this in Orthodoxy. The Church founded the first hospitals as part of the Church. Did you know that? Healing soul & body by the Great Physician. Proclaiming the Gospel- as given to us- is not prideful. And it is the devil making people think it is- it is false virtue to say ‘they’re all part of the church”. Learn the history of your faith and you will see. The Church is people worshipping Him as one, unchanged by time, one with the Apostles and saints before us. Because the Church spans heaven and earth. Eph3:15. That only exists in Orthodoxy, which is 1 faith, 1 piety- everywhere-and it’s the same as the early church. Timeless, as God is timeless.
@@bruhmingo nope. I take no personal pride. The people in this video attacked the True faith. They are against the church not on the side of Christ. You have misapplied Luke. Luke 9:50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.” They are against Christ and not on His aide.
@NavelOrangeGazer Very few actually held to limited atonement and yes, it's a secondary issue. Adhering to the Holy Trinity, two natures of Christ, salvation by faith etc.. are primary doctrines and essential.
I can ask you the same thing sir, if the church is infallible why there were schisms before 1517? Oriental orthodox, Roman church, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic etc..
EO people, what is your response to what he said about penal substitution? It’s clearly taught in Scripture and it’s the heart of the Gospel. What do you believe?
f there was a great apostacy, and if the true faith was restored a whopping 1800 years later, then god is either incredibly incompetent, or outright malicious, or both.
No answer because they do not know scripture. Yet they claim their religion has authority over it. LOL The other guy that replied is a perfect example as to why they are actually a cult posing as "Christian."
Catechumen here so certainly not an expert but what commits me to EO is its commitment to the importance of what exists within the human heart. To me this is what makes EO actually nonsectarian and affirms the importance of both faith and works. And icons are like books. Books generate images. As we read the new testament we imagine the descent of holy spirit as a dove. Isnt this an image? They are venerated because they assist in the worship of god in the heart (we dont worship the holy mother and we dont worship a dove) I suspect the 2nd commandment to be most concerned with the worship of secular substitutions for the God of the Bible such as politicians/political ideology, popular philosophies, science, and the images of self/personality. Facinating video though because i have read the speakers book on Theosis and to listen to him now criticize the home of that tradition is interesting.
@@Death2Compromise God Bless you as well. My Pastor tells me interest in Orthodoxy sky rocketed since Satins agenda came out in clear view during the plandemic. I'm one- I needed to be with people that view the world (central governments, cooperations, central banking) as evil (though there were theological interests I had before the plandemic). I needed to be around people with spiritual integrity and not these phonies that base their worldview around themselves and other false idols as gods. I am thinking there are millions of people who feel similarly to me needing to worship Christ in a manner that doesn't serve mammon. So now we're seeing videos from protestants throwing shade on orthodoxy probably due to concerns about reduced congregations. We should all be rallying around the one true catholic and apostolic church.
This has been extremely helpful as a reformed person who wasnt familiar with orthodoxy i could tell just from talking with an ortho bro for a couple hours that it was sketchy view of salvation. Faith + work when it is all over scripture it is a GIFT of God
@@wilsontexaswhen a protestant takes the Orthodox (and Catholic) explanation of icons as the devil's advocate. With no irony, humor or contextualization. Lord have mercy you can.
It's also not true that EO denies penal substitution. Schooping's claim of that was not accurate. He himself may have denied it, but EO theology does not.
Every Christian will have to give an account for how he/she lived out the truth they have learned from the Bible. What institutional church they followed or attended will be irrelevant. There is one Truth, one Holy Spirit that teaches us truth and He is promised to indwell and teach all who are truly following Jesus and living a life of faith in Him where their faith is shown by their works. We are to work together to encourage one another to love and good works and to carry one another's burdens. Spend time and money to unify the church and reflect Jesus to this hurting and broken world. There is some false teaching in every institutional church, including the Evangelical Protestant church.
I was expecting that two people who were born and brought up in an environment shaped by western rationalism would have faced a certain difficulty to approach Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Different culture, different language, different emphasis, all anticipated. I wouldn't expect Mr. Shooping though to claim that he was in "Far Eastern philosphical and theological studies" and then to show not only disrespect for the tradition of the Desert Fathers like St John of the Ladder (41:50) but to also confuse the doctrine of Theosis (Godification) with the mediocrity of "salvation by works". I truly wonder what the man has learned from his studies, about, not only the Far East, but East in general. But then I did my search in Google and I found that Mr. Shooping had written a "Manual of Theosis: Orthodox Christian Instruction on the Theory and Practice of Stillness, Watchfulness, and Ceaseless Prayer" two years before discovering that the Orthodox Church is anti-Scripture, anti-Biblical, Gospel rejecting, containing three deadly (sic) heresies. The same person who meant to teach us how to become godified "through stillness, watchfulness and ceaseless prayer" following Orthodoxy, two years later took the task to teach us how to lose Salvation following Orthodoxy. Very interesting. The best was kept for the end though: "They have that sort of genetic (sic) inability to understand the doctrine of justification by faith alone" he concludes in 43:00. Did I hear that correctly? I listened to the passage again and again. The man unashamedly uses a racist slur against congregations with a 2000 year uninterrupted history, Churches that produce martyrs even today. Their problem is not their illiteracy, nor the lack of proper theological training of their clergy (the way old Calvinists would view it). Their problem is genetic. Something in the brain or maybe deeper, that prevents them to understand the Christian Truth as is exposed by people with proper genetics like Mr. Shooping. I have to thank Pastor Joel Webbon for this podcast. I may not be a good Christian, but I can at least take some pride for not having become a "reformed" born-again of the sort of Mr. Shooping.
@@chasingtheLord96 What exactly is little "r" Reformed? Does that include the Lutherans who have images and hold to baptismal regeneration? I hope he does go full Reformed, because as of now, he has no definable position.
Let us ask this: where does this self proclaimed pastor claim his authority from? 1) self declared....not biblical 2) self experienced...not biblical 3) group declared...not biblical Protestant theology is man made and an error #hitcheswasright
@@nerychristian what is more hilarious is u have clearly demonstrated ur gnostic philosophy, ur a funny person. You have feelings not facts, and follow the literal traditions of 16th Century, a bad English King, a monk and lawyer in their twenties and a disgrunted swiss priest in his 30s. U are funny!!! 😀
@@captainmarvel76927 Remind me again.. was it the orthodox church who translated the bible into English? Oh, wait, I think it was the protestants who translated it into English. Yes, I remember now. Godly men who were burned alive for wanting people to be able to read the bible in their own language.
No Joel, depicting an image of Jesus is not violating the second commandment. If you continue reading the second half of the commandment it was created because we are not to worship the image otherwise God contradicted himself when he told Moses to make images of cheribum for the holy of holies. I myself am in the middle about images of icons of Jesus, in private is okay but maybe not in churches. And yes, Schooping said early fathers were against worshiping images against the pagans and the later fathers were for it, seems to be a shift.
It wouldn't bode well for him seeing as Leighton Flowers bested him in debate even though I fundamentally disagree with Flowers entire soteriology. Webben has alot of work to do if he wants to meet another denomination on stage and have all the tools at his disposal. Idk of a single Reformed person who has gone out and seriously debated Eastern Orthodoxy.
@josh simpson I have to painfully agree with you. I'm reformed, and have been since 2005. Honestly, I'm just a lay person, but I could've come back with much better arguments against Leighton. It's not because I think I'm any kind of skilled debater, I just have been dealing with those same kinds of arguments leghton employs to try and throw you off being inconsistent with his own theological position. But he's getting awfully flirty with pelagianism and open theism these days.
@Rob Sengstacke James White does a number on Flowers when they debated and he does a great job at teasing out the inconsistencies. I'm as Reformed as it gets but I wouldn't put someone who clearly has spent very little time debating these issues with "the outside" let's say and ultimately harming the cause in the process. I would love to debate about this stuff and do alot online and somewhat in person but people are emotional so it breaks down alot. Flowers gospel is his own emotional version that has to make God not Omnipotent for the sake of their feelings.
I'm very glad to see yall addressing this. Several years ago a good friend of mine left our reformed bible church and converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. At the time, I had some surface level discussions with an EO deacon who was a former protestant, it seemed they genuinely love Jesus, tradition, and "mysteries". I was expecting our conversations to get hung up on predestination and election, but instead, we had a good conversation and agreed on creation, the value and authority of scripture, contempt for heretical liberal churches that deny Christ was raised, etc, but as I pressed the deacon on what he was referring to by the "mysteries" of Eastern Orthodoxy, I found that he believed that Jesus died for our sins, and His death was a fragrant offering to God, but the protestant concept of penal substitutionary atonement should be rejected, "because our sins were not upon Christ, nor did the Father punish Christ for our sins, or send Christ to hell, because that would break the Trinity". It is right to say that Christ did not descend into hell, a better translation of the creed would be that Christ descended into the grave. However, Scripture is clear, that Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree (Col 2:14) and that our iniquity was upon him (Isaiah 53). I could stop here, because it's evident that this is a corruption of the gospel. Additionally, I've noticed that Eastern Orthodoxy has major accountability issues because it is so decentralized. Unlike Rome, who's "Holy Vicar of Christ" is physically prostrating himself before idols, Eastern Orthodoxy's highest authority is not a person, or the Bible, but Tradition. Somehow, the Eastern Orthodox parishioners really believe that because writings from the apostolic fathers are inside their parish library, they are the true church, and they can look the other way when Patriarch Kirill said "sacrifice in the course of carrying out your military duty washes away all sins". Praying and prostrating yourself before images of angels? The Eastern Orthodox believer will unironically say that the angel from revelation 22:8-9 would understand that theres worship prostration and veneration prostration, big difference. Imagine getting on your hands and knees and kissing your boss' shoe and calling it "veneration". Imagine saying "Caesar Kyrios" and being like, "oh dont worry, im just venerating the emperor".
You last point on veneration is flawed. The reason you believe that you are uncomfortable with how the Eastern Orthodox venerate images is purely coming from your cultural background. In the East, veneration has always looked like that. It was always a tradition to bow down before an image or statue of the emperor, even by most true Christians. It is showing reverence towards those in authority. Based on implicit references from Scripture as well as pure reason, there is clearly a difference between dulia, which is honor given to everything other than God, and latria, which is honor and worship given to God alone. If you really want to honestly approach this topic you have to be willing to dig into the deep theological underpinnings for icon veneration as well as accept that large amount of nuance regarding this topic.
On your point about what Patriarch Kiriil said, you must understand the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic doctrine of redemptive suffering. Redemptive suffering does not take away from Christ’s sacrifice. Christians are united to Christ, therefore our suffering are united to his and are ultimately his. The Bible makes this clear in certain passages.
The early church taught the Ransom Theory. Penal Substitution was not even a thought until the Reformation period. I assume if God wanted us to believe something, it wouldn't take the church 1,500+ years to figure it out. I'll go with the early church on this. Penal Substitution is based on faulty modern translations (in some case purposely mistranslated). One example is Isaiah 53:10. In the Septuagint, it says "The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed." In the Masoretic text, which all Protestant Bibles are translated from: "Yet the LORD was pleased to crush him severely. When you make him a guilt offering, he will see his seed, he will prolong his days, and by his hand, the LORD's pleasure will be accomplished. Christ and the apostles always quoted from the Greek Septuagint and never quoted the corrupted Masoretic texts - since there was no Masoretic text in the 1st century. As for praying and prostrating before images/icons/people - does bowing or venerating something always equates to worship - Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David and others don't seem to think so. Here are just a few of many examples: "Then David said to all the assembly, “Now bless the LORD your God.” So all the assembly blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the LORD and the king." (1 Chronicles 29:20) "And Bathsheba bowed and did homage to the king. Then the king said, “What is your wish? Then she said to him, “My lord, you swore by the LORD your God to your maidservant, saying, ‘Assuredly Solomon your son shall reign after me, and he shall sit on my throne.’ (1 Kings 1:16-17) - David called Saul "my lord" and bowed to him (1 Sam 24:8) - Jacob prophesied that Judah's brothers will bow down to him (Gen 49:8) - Moses bowed down before his father-in-law (Exodus 18:7) - Ruth bowed to Boaz (Ruth 2:10) - Joseph's brothers bowed down to him when he was governor of Egypt (Gen 42:6), bowed down to him presenting gifts (Gen 43:26) - Daniel, David and Jacob all bowed before an angel "Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas." (Acts 16:29) - Jacob also bowed before the tip of his son Joseph's staff (Gen 47:31. Heb 11:21) "Then Joshua tore his clothes, and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the LORD until evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust on their heads." (Joshua 7:6) - Abraham bowed before the people of the land (sons of Hamor) who were pagans (Genesis 23:12) Did Abraham worship them? I think not... Joshua and his band worshipped god before the ark (since god's presence dwelt there) but the ark was an also an object of veneration (along with the imagery/iconography it depicted) same thing with the veneration of god's temple and footstool (1 Kings 8:44, Psalm 5:7, 99:5, 138:2, Matt 23:21) or Moses's serpent on a pole which the Israelites were told to look upon and venerate. Veneration and worship aren't always the same thing.
@@orthodoxbox7004 This typical EO apologetic is ahistorical and dishonest, Clement of Rome taught penal substitutionary atonement in 96AD, when he wrote his epistle collected in the writings of The Apostolic Fathers. During the first and second centuries, there was a plurality of views concerning the atonement of Christ. Some are more esoteric than others, and some are popular today. These theories are not all grounded in Scripture, for example, the recapitulation theory of the atonement is articulated by Irenaeus of Lyons. This theory sounds reasonable, but Irenaeus took this too far, suggesting that Christ had to redeem every aspect of life, including old age, thus Christ died at over 50 years old. Despite the plurality of views, there is one view of the atonement we see again and again, this is the penal substitutionary theory. There are many writers who have addressed the completed work of Christ, Clement is one of the most eloquent, he writes “By love have all the elect of God been made perfect; without love nothing is well-pleasing to God. In love has the Lord taken us to Himself. On account of the Love he bore us, Jesus Christ our Lord gave His blood for us by the will of God; His flesh for our flesh, and His soul for our souls” (1 Clement 49:6). This implies that penal substitution theory was being taught by the generation trained by the Apostles. Other writers from the second and third centuries addressed this topic, notably Ignatius and Polycarp. In the eloquent epistle from the collection of writings known as The Apostolic Fathers, this view is seen in the writings of the anonymous Epistle to Diognetus, where the author writes, "He [Christ] did not hate us, or reject us, or bear a grudge against us; instead he was patient and forbearing; in his mercy he took upon himself our sin; he himself gave up his own Son as a ransom for us, the holy one for the lawless, the guiltless for the guilty, the just for the unjust, the incorruptible for the corruptible, the immortal for the mortal. For what else but his righteousness could have covered our sins? In whom was it possible for us, the lawless and ungodly, to be justified, except in the Son of God alone? O the sweet exchange, O the incomprehensible work of God, O the unexpected blessings, that the sinfulness of many should be hidden in one righteous person, while the righteousness of one should justify many sinners!" (Diognetus 10:2b-5) Clement of Rome articulates one of the earliest versions of what has been defined in the introduction as penal substitutionary atonement theory that is found outside of scripture. He goes to scripture to make his point, quoting and paraphrasing from Isaiah 53 in 1 Clement 16:4 writing, “This is the one who bears our sins and suffers pain for our sakes, and we regarded him as subject to toil and stripes and affliction.” While Clement is not divinely inspired, his work is saturated with scripture. The amount of scripture Clement references and paraphrases cause his epistle to be edifying, exhortative, and profitable to the Christian. However, it is not enough to look only to the words of Clement which he has paraphrased from scripture, one should search the scriptures themselves aided by prayer, the Holy Spirit, and supportive sources such as biblical commentaries to fully see penal substitution in the text; Isaiah prophesied concerning Christ writing, “Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” and “Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.” Isaiah 53:4-6;11-12 (ESV) However, there are sections of Clement's epistle which are difficult to interpret, such as 1 Clement 30:3, “Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God. Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being humble and self-controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words”; how can Clement quote Isaiah and say we are justified by works and not by words? It is because Clement is paraphrasing James 2:14-16 here. In The Letter of James, a commentary by Douglas Moo, the author comments on James chapter 2, arguing that the word “Justification” here, is not being used the way Paul uses the words in Romans. This is not a Justification that makes the believer legally right with God, this is a justification that proves to the believer that God is at work in them to produce the fruit of the Spirit, which gives the assurance of salvation, justifying the believers statement of faith to the created world. To quote Moo, Critical to understanding the argument of the section and integrating it successfully into a broader biblical perspective is the recognition that James is not arguing that works must be added to faith. His point, rather, is that genuine biblical faith will inevitably be characterized by works. Trying to add works to a bogus faith is an exercise in futility, for only by “accepting the implanted word” (1:21) and experiencing the inner transformation that it brings can one produce works pleasing to God. James in a sense, proposes for us in these verses a “test” by which we determine the genuineness of faith: deeds of obedience to the will of God. Clement, aware of this, goes on to write, "And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the Almighty God justified all men that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Clement 32:4).
It is the height of arrogance for NON Orthodox to critique How Orthodox interpret the Liturgical book of Orthodoxy. the Bible is the Orthodox liturgical text. everyone else is using borrowed capital. No idea what they are reading. That's why they make up so many false doctrines. All 6000 ancient manuscripts of scripture are Orthodox Bibles. including the OT- which is older than the heavily edited Hebrew bible. Orthodoxy is the NT church of Pentecost. There is no other source. So if you see scripture differently, then a pious Christian would want to know why they think differently than the early Church. And not critique the early church from a modernist prideful mentality. The presumption that you know scripture is false. Christ died for our salvation but NOT as a debt payment to God the Father, which is blasphemous. He died to TEACH US extreme humility and the love of GOD. We all have to die to our cross as He did. Crucify our intellect, accept that we cannot have systematic theology derived from our fallen human reason. God is beyond our description. His majestic power is beyond our understanding. Hence we simply say it is a Divine Mystery. There is no logical explanation for the raising of Lazarus, the Resurrection, or His miracles. God's ways are not our ways We therefore use apophatic language to describe GOD- what God isn't: ineffable, incomprehensible, immutable, without beginning or end.
Been to so many Evangelical, Protestant Churches and only ever went to 1 that inflicted Church discipline. Would love to know why the host presents it as somehow common amongst Protestantism. It's not.
On the subject of icons being idolatry, what about with the Ark of the Covenant have angels engraved onto it. Wouldn't that be considered idolatry by what they just said?
No one prayed to the Ark of the Covenant though... false equivalence. Also, God Himself commanded them to build and carry that... He did not command people to pray to the dead or make images of them... Jesus gave exact instructions on how we should pray (Matthew 6:5-13) and the EO violates this command.
So many straight up lies. I don't believe for one second that M. Schooping was an Orthodox. As simple layman that just read patristic and Church Tradition in general, I can attest that he either read the same thing sideways or he never read it.
Nothing but emotional appeals, personal anecdotes, reports of mental states, claims without justification, and misunderstandings of Orthodox doctrine. Not an argument in sight for why Orthodoxy is wrong. Keep up the good work, you’re probably making more Orthodox converts than many of us are. ☦️👍🏻
I am a Protestant inquirer into Orthodoxy, but it seems that he, as a former priest, never understood the real meaning of icons. I have already learnt enough to see the misunderstandings. After seeing this videeo I definitely want to go on into Orthodoxy!
As an orthodox christian i dont believe i have to answer anything of that matter , the actions of the protestants speak by themselves , the saints who created the liturgy the churches and the icons did that by guidance of The Holy Spirit to create a haven, an ark inside the world , a place which can be a safe spot of worship and rependance . The orthodox holy icons tell the stories of the saints , it is not statues, they are made in order for people to learn even if they dont know how to read about Christ and His people that truly follow Him . Worship inside orthodoxy is not just a philosophy but a whole way of life , we live by christ our body is a temple and everything around is made to worship God everybody in the church while following the chants and the words do their spiritual battle and become one with the other in order for all of us to be saved by The Lord while the surroundings inside the church help us understand and see more of what a life by Christ means ! Of what were the crosses that individual saints were carrying ! Thats the real reason of being inside a church ! Also the orthodox Christianity icons are made in a way to not provoke passions and sins through the nakedness ! About the structures of the orthodox churches , there are no gargoyles to scare ppl, Christ never wanted His ppl to be scared , there are no sharp edges so ppl feel threatened . We the orthodox christians are not perfect we are ppl with sins and passions but through The Holy Spirit's guidance we can make the city of God, the heavens jerousalem , the Bride of Christ and the churches are the structures of that city !
@@JohnDorian-j7x You are missing the point. If he did his research properly he would have known it's not the same as RC. RC is from one individual, the pope. It was pointed out to me in Acts 15 that the church elders could come together with the Holy Spirit and make changes. Acts 15:28 If the early church didn't make those changes then only circumcised Jews would have been able to become Christians. This is also a rare case of a priest leaving the Orthodox faith. By far the normal in America is for the Orthodox Church to receive converts from Protestants and Roman Catholics (and others as well) as can be seen from the growth of the Church. A mere 88K members in the mid 2000s to around 2 million Orthodox Christians today. No other church has that kind of growth rate while many other churches are bleeding members.
Of course not. Nobody is "going to" neither hell nor heaven, because heaven and hell are not places but states of being. And salvation is not a question of belonging to a certain religious group. It's about your inner transformation towards theosis. The point is, that this poor guy is trapped in doubts and erroneous conclusions about orthodoxy. His human mind has confused his path. Therefore this "pray for him". Btw: I am not orthodox.@@JohnDorian-j7x
I'm 'the church' as i witness for Christ when i leave the house to walk or to do errands, work in my yard and say "hi" to passers-by-ers, or make comments on yt - for this is where i find plenty of fellowship as God sees fit in my case(!)... otherwise, i'm quite the recluse as i work around the house and the property and pray and read HIS word - happy enough, as God has set me apart and so i'm not a protected person but very much the opposite, facing all sorts of challenges placed on me by the enemy and his huge numbers of minions, all joined at the hip these due in lrg part to technology(!) - for THESE TIMES now have shown me how busy the devil now IS, and eager to deceive, for his time IS short now ...I will die for Christ in the end, i think. I'm ready. 🙏💔🙏
Joshua Schooping shows he’s not worth taking seriously. He says Catholics reject Gregory Palamas. That’s just not true! Byzantine Catholics venerate Gregory Palamas on the Second Sunday of Lent.
In reality, it was not until the 20th Century when the Roman Catholics began to "reassess" Palamism (as the RC moved towards Vatican 2) and became more friendly towards it and the Eastern Orthodox Church in general, because for about five centuries Palamism was not at all accepted. I recommend reading Meyendorff or others on the history of the West's non-reception of Palamism. There was always a tension over this issue in the Byzantine Catholic churches, and was only tolerated by Rome proper.
@@dustinneely What you are saying actually makes no sense. The Catholic Church is both its Latin (Roman) Tradition and the Eastern Tradition. All Liturgical Rites in the early Church are part of the Catholic Church, the undivided Church of the 1st millennium of both West and East. The early CHurch at Pentecost is an example of Catholicity where you see Rome in the West as the farthest point, then to Greece and then across Egypt and the North African Roman provinces all across the Near East Roman Provinces to the furthest in the Eastern Roman empire, that is Mesopotamia. The Latin Rite is the Liturgy of the Roman Church, with sub-Roman Rites that are related to it, Ambrosian in Milan, Mozarabic in Spain, etc. Eastern Churches in communion with Rome retain their Liturgical Traditions and their Saints. Some Eastern Saints are venerated in the Latin Church, some Latin/Roman saints are venerated in the Eastern Church, and some venerated in one not in the other, etc. Maronite Catholic Church from Lebanon is 1 ancient Eastern Church that never broke communion with Rome, uses Aramaic in its Liturgy and its roots are in the Antiochian Tradition. During the Council of Trent, the Chaldean Church relate to the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East (based in modern Iran, Iraq, parts of Turkey) came back into full communion with Rome has its roots in the East Syriac Liturgical Tradition related to Antioch which is a dialect of Aramaic. Those Churches are fully Catholic but not Roman Catholic by which it celebrates the Liturgy and has a Theological Tradition that is not for example tied into the Latin Fathers such as Saint Hillary of Poitiers, Saint Ambrose of Milan, Saint Augustine, Pope Saint Leo the Great, Pope Gregory the Great, Saint Thomas Aquinas, etc, etc.
@@palermotrapani9067 exactly my point. It's a bunch of ecumenist nonsense. You can believe whatever you want as long as you swear allegiance to the Pope. Monophysites and Nestorians are welcome. It's a joke.
"When you're trying to do apologetics with them, it's like trying to stick jello to the wall". This can so easily be applied to Protestantism. For example, speaking with contemporary Anglicans, they will say they affirm the BCP but reinterpret or deny all of the "Catholic" doctrines found in the BCP (like Baptismal Regneration, Priesthood, Liturgical Calendar). Some Anglicans are more Anglo-Catholic, and some Anglicans are Evangelical, some are inbetween. It's like sticking jello to the wall.
And then Joshua spent 12 minutes saying he became an Orthodox Priest but, during Covid lockdown, became Sola Scriptura and rejected the Church that gave us the Scriptures, because his quote mining discovered Church Fathers who taught positions that aren't supported by Church Canon. Sigh, the purpose of the Councils is to establish the official Orthodox position on matters of disagreement. My catechumen process was extensive, and my baptism and chrismation was awesome. How did Joshua become an Orthodox Priest without understanding the purpose and authority of the Church Canons? As for icons, after God presented Moses the Decalogue, God instructed Moses to make icons of angels for the Temple, and to make a pair of gold angel statues for the lid of the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies!
@@lwconley2005 Hey Lance long time no see. I've been attending an Eastern Orthodox church since just before Holy Week. Hope you're doing well these days.
I find there is alot to admire in EO although I'm non denominational myself. I can see why people leave Evangelicalism to go to EO. I personally don't agree with all the doctrines in both camps, but I do still see EO as saved
@@rebeccalindley153 How it is said in the video that catholism is actually orthodox theology. It says it is the same. Only an ignorant or one that wants to deceive would say such says
I must say, I don't think it was wise, for the sake of the uninitiated of all things this channel, to frontload all those adds in rapid succession. Maybe during the middle or after the broadcast. That being said, because we can warn our EO and loosely-slipping Reformed friends to skip to a certain time. Because for a fact, THIS is a dialogue we need!
@@GabrielWithoutWings i have never heard of that person in my entire life. what i see from augustine and scripture are the same difference between evil and good.
If the Church is in error and has fallen after thousand years of beung continually and personally lead by Christ, I'm afraid there is absolutely no hope for any of tbe many thousands of protestant churches.
EO is a big question mark for many in the West including myself (though Jonathan Pageau has put it a bit more in the limelight). Looking forward to the continuation of this series.
Protestantism should be in a state of emergency re: EO in the U.S. The number of converts to EO is like nothing ever experienced in the past. Two years ago, a Pentecostal minister in my town shuddered the doors to his church and took his entire congregation into EO. They should be taken at their word when they openly state that they have come to convert the U.S. to Christianity.
Jonathan Pageau I don't think is a good source for Orthodoxy. Pageau will not give you an understanding of the essence energy distinction or the sacraments as mysteries or theosis or living the ascetic life or really anything distinctive to Orthodoxy. Pageau uses metaphors taken from Orthodoxy to communicate his philosophy. I think it's why he is so associated with Jordan Peterson, who does the same thing. Peterson's famous Genesis lectures really have nothing to do with Genesis. They use Genesis as a tool to communicate psychology. Pageau communicates Christ as an archetype rather than as a personal Savior, similar to Peterson. He communicates demons as metaphors for negative trends in society rather than as real fallen angels. He's a "cultural Orthodox." You're going to learn philosophy utilizing Orthodox symbols from him, you're not going to learn Orthodoxy. He can serve as a stepping-off point from which to investigate Orthodox theology, but don't think that you're coming away from his videos with an understanding of Orthodoxy just as Peterson's Genesis talks are lectures, not sermons.
Fight by flight sounds like retroactive justification for leaving because you wanted to. Like it's not entirely wrong you can do that, but I don't think you should pretend it's because you care about Californians so much that you need the state to fail. I'm from the Seattle area and as much as I hate the politics here I'm probably staying for the foreseeable future because it's such a spiritually dark place and we need to be the light of the world. I'll be on the front lines for now. I don't think I can help the PNW by leaving it.
@@paulinestickney4394 PNW is awesome it's just too expensive and the politics are really getting bad. It's definitely a battle zone (battling for souls in that sense).
Calvinism is a theology of anger. You can know that Christ isn't present with Webbon because of his smugness. "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Exactly. I noticed the attitude immediately. Smugness. (Noticed the opposite with the Patristix guy, and the Pageau brothers.) Orthodox christians have the peace of christ. And humility of his servants ❤
Ironically, it is the Calvinist that acknowledges God's ultimate and unequal authority in salvation. -> Ephesians 2:8-10 It's not Calvinists that are boasting in their works, as you do...
How can you excommunicate someone from a protestant church if theres no clear way of joining the church? And why would you kick someone out if you dont need works to be saved?
"You can only portray half of Jesus"
That's Nestorianism Patrick
Yeah, Protestants think by merely saying “we believe in one person,” prevents them from being Nestorian.
Perfect 😅
AMIN.....
also his view of Mary is Nestorian.
yeah, icons are literally nestorianism... all images of Jesus are nestorian
Does the scripture only portray half of jesus? On the road to Emmaus Yeshua opened the OT Scriptures and taught them concerning himself. The Scriptures are the only Godbreathed source of doctrine. 1 tim. 3:16 Nothing else is stated in all of Scripture to carry that weight of infallibility.
My brother converted to EO....he is super intelligent and knows his history better than I and unbelieveably better than 90 percent of believers. My brother claims Luther should have turned East instead of rebel against the church
@kathrynmurray6297
All the knowledge and reading means nothing if he is not in Christ. And he is not.
Remember what Jesus told to educated of His time - publicans and whores are preceding you...
Better be a simple man clinging and holding to Jesus than super educated extremely intelligent enemy of God... 😢
A lot of atheists are super intelligent. And many simple folks are born again believers.
Intelligence isn’t a sign of biblical wisdom.
“Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.””
Luke 18:17 ESV
That's because EO is rooted in a longer chain of history than Reformed, we are also catechized (or supposed to be) with basic church history and theology.
Luther said '*The truth is with the Greeks*' but for some reason never sought union with them. However some of his early Lutheran theologians of Tubingen had a very polite correspondence with Patriarch Jeremiah of Constantinople II in the 1570s regarding the Augsburg Confession. After about a year of writing back and forth it became apparent that Orthodoxy and Lutheranism creeds and dogmas were not going to be compatible and the relations fizzled out. There is a whole book on this topic, George Mastrantonis, Augsburg and Constantinople.
But Luther didn't rebel. He put his 95 thesis to the Wittenberg doors and they excommunicated him. Thats what they dont get. Luther was trying to Reform the RCC to scripture. He wasn't trying to divide himself from it.
@@BRUISER14 Now many followers of Jesus the Messiah are witnessing to reformed calvinists.
What a world. Hopefully some of these cult members will turn to Jesus. Reformed calvinists are so hardened in their deception yet there is still hope.
Video starts at 8:20 after a long introduction
thanks
You just saved five minutes of my life sir thank you
Thanks!
Thank you so much
Yes!
29:02 Literally one simple Google search gives:
_"For the Orthodox, anathema is not final damnation. God alone is the judge of the living and the dead, and up until the moment of death repentance is always possible. The purpose of public anathema is twofold: to warn the one condemned and bring about his repentance, and to warn others away from his error."_
but it hurt my feelings!
Yeah NOW it is. It certainly wasn’t the case WHEN THEY WROTE IT 😂
@@disguisedcentennial835
1.) These two were talking in the context of the NOW
2.) The Orthodox changed the definition of anathema you say, well, back it up with a source! 🙂
Probably a modern definition. Religions "absolute truth" shifts with culture.
@@tgrogan6049 Okay, you make a claim. Any source to back up that claim? So, same question to you as to DisguisedCentennial above;
You claim the Orthodox church has changed the definition of "anathema" over time, where's the source for this?
My own experience seems too complicated to be explained in a few sentences, but in a nutshell is this: I grew up in a traditional Eastern Orthodox family, but teenage years lead me to a rebellious, sinful life ;
Later i got involved in the modern movement of meditation until i realized it's an organized religion, when i went to Thailand; I also had the opportunity to get to know closely muslim people and their faith ;
And during my time in London, i explored different denominations as i thought there was no difference between Christians, so i went to Pentacostal gatherings a few times ; i went to the nearby Methodist hall once or twice ; i used to sing with Baptists more often than the others ; i talked to JW knocking on my door and invited them in my house (because of love) ; i met people from the Adventist movement and learned about their belief ; i met two young boys, who gave me their book of Mormons and insisted on saying a prayer with them at the coffee shop ; i even learned about the Rastafari religious movement...
Until, i finally went back to the original faith of the Apostles, the true Church founded by God through our Lord Jesus...at first, i was so convinced that the Orthodox church cannot be true because of the icons, but after months of praying, fasting and reading the Bible, one answer was revealed after another to the point where i learned the Truth right from its original source - The Old Testament, where in 2 Kings 13:21 we have an example of holy remains making miracles as it is still to this day in the Eastern Orthodox Church !
Contemplating on the realities of our so confused world of different faiths today, i also discovered another simple truth- most of the religious organizations that i had the chance to encounter follow an individual voice- Buddha, Muhhamad, the Pope, some pastor or prophet in the evangelical denominations, etc. , while in the Eastern Orthodoxy it has always been the collective voice that matters- major decisions have been made during the first 7 ecumenical councils and this is actually an example given by the first apostles in Jerusalem, when "they all joined together" to decide who to replace Judas ( Acts 1:12-26 )
Another interesting fact is that if i decide tomorrow to go to an Orthodox service in an Arabic country, for example, the music, the surroundings, the sacraments will be the same as it is in my local Orthodox church, which is a clear sign of the universal nature of our Church. What is more, it is an implementation of God's prayer for His children - to be all one ! The divine liturgy is a true union in Christ that has been celebrated for centuries (the liturgy of st John Chrysostom for example has been celebrated since the 5th century!).
Perhaps there are many more things that we could add to this, but hopefully this helps at least one soul on the way to the Truth and the Life in the Holy Universal Apostolic Church!
Is there any books, RUclipsrs, scholars you can show me that wild lead me to Eastern Orthodox i am very curios i am catholic rn.
@@jacobthelehman7081 the first book that i found by chance at home (probably my grandfather left it) and that opened my heart to the reality of the Eastern Orthodox beauty is Life of Saint John of Kronstadt (1829 - 1908)
Eastern Orthodoxy is not simply a religion or a rational phylosophy but a way of life, an existential experience of God's uncreated energies , theosis through purification and theoria...
@@jacobthelehman7081 as for youtubers, i guess there are some, i found this a very well explained short summary - ruclips.net/video/1EK0itG_rUI/видео.html
Nice copy pasta.
☦☦
Protestants want to tell me what heresy is 😂 This video just boosted my faith in Orthodoxy ☦️
Christ is Lord ☝️
Was geht Bro war Protestant bin Orthodox geworden auch wenn ich noch paar Sachen kritisch finde.
@@Marcelo.1927 schön zu hören dass du zur Orthodoxie gefunden hast Bruder. Welche Sachen findest du noch kritisch?
@@MaximusAugustusOrthodox meiner Meinung nach ist die Orthodoxie nicht katholisch da sie nicht wirklich universell ist zum Beispiel in Berlin kann ich nicht mal wirklich in eine Gemeinde gehen die eine ist serbisch die andere russisch verstehe da nichts da ist Liturgie meist kritisch ist nicht nur in Deutschland so. Und die Apokyrphen warum die einfach in den Kanon aufgenommen wurden trotz scheinbaren vielen Fehlern zum Evangelium und der Lehre Christi.
I’m just trying to be Orthodox. I have family issues for now that are preventing me from attending but I’m convinced. Even I see how Protestants charging people with heresy is laughable. I grew up Baptist and from what I’ve seen of Protestantism they can’t find their ass with both hands.
🤣☦ same brother
"...I will not speak of Thy mysteries to Thine enemies. Neither will I give Thee a kiss as did Judas." ☦️
Amen brother.
May Christ have mercy toward these.
Amen!
Joshua the Apostate.
Do you affirm penal substitutionary atonement?
thank you for sending more people to Orthodoxy
being prideful doesnt get you into heaven with god
@@1967-l7hneither does attempting to “rediscover” the truth 1500 years after the founding of the Church show any degree of Humility like all of Protestantism is built on.
Honestly, I have been a non-Orthodox Pastor for over 33 years. The Protestant Churches need to soul search as so many have fallen to the modern agendas. I 100% understand why people are leaving in droves. Scandal after scandal, separating faith from works etc…The video should be balanced with “Rock and Sand” parts 1 and 2.
Yeah baby yeah!!!
"The Protestant Churches .. have fallen to the modern agendas"
Bruh... if people have been "leaving the church in droves" in protestant churches... then what do you call what's been happening in Orthodoxy, hemorrhaging? lol. Also, are you suggesting the catholics or orthodox haven't had scandals? lol. Its all of them and everywhere. Its also happening outside of christianity.
If the Church has gotten to the point where Orthodoxy has failed, there is no hope at all to be found for protestantism.
Absolutely.
I cannot imagine leaving Orthodoxy and rejecting the Eucharist.
Lord, have mercy. ☦️
Yeah, I’m Catholic and I have heard of this man. It really is a shame
@@JackedNYCyou actually never read Hebrews 10
Si you actually think that there's a transubstantiation taking place 😂😂 cannibalism
I can’t imagine representing Christs sacrifice. The epistle to the Hebrews utterly destroys the Catholic and orthodox view of the Eucharist.
😅😅😅 if you believe in transubstantiation. You must be 🥜🥜
20:44 I’m a convert to Orthodoxy from Protestantism and I was taught that the cross was many things in my catechism. I was taught that it was penal substitutionary atonement, but not just that. That Jesus defeated death by his death, but not just that. So I’m not sure how this man was taught about the Orthodox Church, but it’s not what I’ve been taught at all. I also have seen Christian community unlike any church I’ve ever been to within the Orthodox Church. That is what convinced me to join: imperfect people loving God and each other. I had gone to numerous churches looking for the community I ultimately found in Orthodoxy.
☦️
Thank you!
I am new to learning about orthodoxy but that is what I have gathered as well. I don't think EO would have any problem with John Chrysostom's teaching on the subject.
Love to see you debate Jay Dyer!
@@Landbeorht how do you know you’re not an apostate? Why don’t you listen and learn instead of bash. There are problems with Eastern Orthodoxy
They both wouldn't be able to touch Dyer
@@user-tg5mq8ky2y No your church went apostate a long time ago
Agreed!
If Dyer is as much of a simpleton on Orthodox dogma as he is on Divine simplicity, then Joshua stands a good chance in a debate
Came in here and Orthodox and came out Orthodox
I came in with interest in converting to Orthodoxy and came out convinced I'm on the right path
Facts 😂💯☦️
follow heresy over God if you wish
@@daniel-yv8ge
God bless you
@@scarletstevens
I’m ex orthodox
Becoming Orthodox after 57 years in various evangelical churches saved my life.
My favorite Reformed quirk: they never speak to current Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox clergy. They always speak to those who have rejected Rome and the East as if that will be the best and most unbiased way to understand what they believe and teach.
100%
I just want to say that while i have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from being a Non-Denominational evangelical. I appreciate the level of rigor and integrity that you display in your content.
Maybe that's because every debate with active Catholics or orthodox followers ends up being useless because they refuse to be open to the biblical truth that goes against their man-made religious traditions. It's an exercise in futility.
@@staza1 maybe you’re not open to biblical interpretations
Hah. Let me guess. Being open to biblical interpretation to you means only some fat gay priest wearing long robes can tell me what the Bible says. I'm too dumb to read it and figure it out myself, like say, the Bereans.
I just want to go where the spirit of God is
Thank you for vindicating Orthodoxy ☦️
Thomas had a painting of Jesus from 50 AD... its in India where he is buried. Its an icon of Mary and the baby Jesus, so yes, they did paint Jesus in the first century
Where in India? Early Christians in India were Nestorian. Your source is not credible.
wow that's quite a claim.
Who cares. God commands us not to make images or idols
@@nerychristian Except when he commanded the Israelites to look upon a bronze snake on a pole... (Numbers 21:8-9)
@@amakrid Which the righteous Hezekiah made a thousand pieces, and they used it to make brass tools and vessels and dishes. And even as the first iconoclast in the Bible he was praised by God 2 Kings 18:1-7
2Kin 18:7: And the LORD was with him;
Bible > Seventh “ecumenical” >
Even if the EOC is wrong (which I don’t believe) PC is full of disunity. There is a constant changing. I’ve been in every evangelical church and there is something new all the time. It reminds me of the house built on the sand.
@@Death2Compromise has it ever occured to you that things need to be reassessed from time to time? That our interpretation of ancient texts can be colored by modern understanding? That maybe, the eastern Christians are not magically exempt from this tendency?
@@Death2Compromise you follow a script. There have been protestant innovations. That's true. There have also been orthodox innovations. No church father before Nicea believed that divorce was permissable. Nor did they permit military service. Nor did they allow for images. Your church has had many innovations since the early days. All churches have had changes and innovations. Yours isn't magic and exempt from these historical tendencies to evolve and change.
Oh yes EO has a lot of unity. Especially the Ukrainian and Russian orthodox churches 😂 good try
@@Bigchickens wrong example. Ukrainian authorities are kicking out the Ukrainian Orthodox church because they accuse it of working on Putin(in Ukrainian mass media the Ukrainian Orthodox church often called Moscow church). And besides that there is no hate toward each other inside the Ukrainian or the Russian Orthodox churches. Also they have common dogma and a lot of common saints and celebrate the same feasts on the same dates.
One church (or branch of Christianity) being in error doesn't negate the errors of another.
I am totally going Orthodox .
Good call! May God bless you on your journey.
John 3. You can’t work your way into heaven. God has to choose you.
What verse is Sola Scriptura?
Asking for a friend.
The heresy of all heresies. even the reformers couldn't agree. they killed each other over it & finally settled on freemasonry, - came to America, leaving God and all the is holy completely out of the equation.
I got you!
Tell your friend its 2 Timothy 3: 15-17.
@@deekay2680Are you on crack?
@@kevinmiller6443 2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter
If St. Paul is telling those who were taught by him to listen to his verbal instruction, then how can it possibly be "Scripture alone", its a direct contradiction to what St. Paul is saying
@@VampCaliber Notice how the verse you are referencing mentions "spoken word" and "or by letter." The traditions they handed down were backed up by scripture, so that cults couldn't come along and make up new traditions like the RCC, EO, Mormon, etc. religions. The "spoken word" was the preaching of the written scriptures.
The reason he brought up "spoken word" and "letter" there is because they do not contradict each other, but act as an error checking system to identify anti-Christs and posers. This is conveyed all throughout scripture. Take the Bereans in Acts 17 for example.
When Paul came preaching to them, they referred to the written word (letter) to verify if what he was saying was the truth. Acts 17:11. THAT is an actual scriptural example of "sola scriptura" that was not only identified by Paul himself, but encouraged.
Not only that, but it proves that the scriptures existed before both the EO and RCC could try to take credit for them.
23:50 I have never heard any rejection of penal substitution in Orthodoxy. They do exactly what Pastor Joel did - say there are multiple aspects to the atonement, but some are more primary than others. In addition, Schooping said they emphasize Christus victor and again that is not my experience at all. I have read books, listened to lectures, and talked personally with Orthodox priests and Schooping is out of step with all of that in this video. I am sincerely confused here because Schooping seems to have somehow been an Orthodox priest without having an understanding of theosis. Schooping's passing remark about the emphasis being more on the incarnation than on the crucifixion is in agreement with what I've encountered, but beyond that he is giving a picture of the atonement in Orthodoxy that seems distorted from my investigations into it.
I'm not an Orthodox Christian and not attempting to defend it, I just don't see Schooping's characterization of the Orthodox view of the atonement to be an accurate representation of Orthodox theology. Orthodox theosis is not Christus victor.
No orthodox person believes the father poured out his wrath onto the son... because He didnt.
Very good. Orthodox theosis is different and is more akin to becoming or returning to state or relationship with God and Adam before the fall. You have to remember Orthodox canon has more statements about what not to believe than what to believe. The Church sets up guardrails rather than dictates what every mystery means. Stay within the guardrails and your OK with the Church.
I’m Protestant (southern Baptist) and have been reading 1st century fathers, Orthodoxy dogma and am confused with Schooping because, as you say, his views are distorted and confusing (especially on the subject of “idols”)
@@John17apologetics Jesus drank the cup
Theosis is beyond Christ Victor.
5 heresies of Reformed Theology / tradition:
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irrisistable grace
5. Perseverance of the Saints
😉😙
5 Deadly Heresies
I think you have that confused with Calvinism.
Can you provide evidence for this claim?
@@markanthony3275 I said Reformed, not Reformation. This channel is Calvinist / Reformed
@@tjkhan4541 Oh yes, it's called Church history; Theology; doctrinal development; where Augustine made novel additions and permanent influences; Post Apostolic / Ante-Nicene tradition + the consensus of the Greek Father's: i.e., Athanasius, Cappadocian's to John of Damascus etc, etc, etc...
The 5 points are utterly absent.
Yes sin affects us on every level of being and doing, and without Christ we are still in need of relational reconciliation. But total inability and utter bondage of the will is not found amongst my references. Yes Grace from first to last... But NOT the compatibilism of Reformed / Calvinistic tradition with it's meticulous determinism. This is heresy to the Orthodox who maintain the above mentioned tradition of the early Church X
"As reformed Christians" followed shortly by the "they both love their idols" strawman tells us all we need to know about the host and the truthfulness of the content.
What makes orthodox different from Catholics?
The doctrines of grace are not idols. Iconography and the statues of the EO and RCC are idolatrous.
I am a life long protestant. I am deeply looking into orthodoxy, and I, an uneducated layperson, recognize that your arguments are either 1) ignorant or 2) trickery. God bless you and your pursuing of Christ and God lead me where ever he goes.
@@TheReformedCatholicwhat are you now? orthodox and catholic are still saved
I will pray for you on your journey, brother. I was baptized in the Orthodox Church last year on Pentecost. Glory to Jesus Christ!
You evidently didn’t know how to read the Bible. If you did you wouldn’t believe in such nonsense.
@@clouds-rb9xtdebatable
@@stevenjames6830 elaborate
This video is proof that you can go to seminary, be a priest, and still not understand Orthodox Theology
Thats not a great argument for eastern orthodoxy, not for nothing.
That's a massive self own
@@CryoftheProphetcurious, are you referring to his comment or the video?
As a former reformed minister who converted to EO, I found this to be an interesting interview for numerous reasons. 1. There are theologies that you could question, but these guys failed to mention those couple. Simply, the interviewee should do a little more homework and resist the urge to tell half the story when explaining beliefs. 2. It is a curious twist of truth that he puts on a number of issues bc he, as does the interviewer, starts with their current working theology in mind to explain what Christians should have always believed, though they clearly haven’t always believed
It is quite the sad thing to hear anyone explain Christianity through a 20th/21st century western lens instead of the lens in which it was established. Poor guys
If the interviewee couldn’t handle being Orthodox, I get it, but don’t try to convince people that it’s wrong because you couldn’t handle the Orthodox Christian life. Moreover, solo theolgia (which seems to be practiced by these guys) is what has led to the creation of 20,000+ denominations in America, while Orthodoxy remains fairly stable.
Another question, these guys spoke of the “reformed” church. Where in the U.S. do we see God at work in and through the reformed churches? I don’t know of any; rather, just disenchanted people ready to beat the world over with their Bibles (which were put together by Orthodox bishops back in the day)
You were never saved.
@@stevenjames6830 Lol. That's so Calvinistic but hilarious.
@@stevenjames6830 If you are already saved, you would not need Him. Salvation is not a light switch for your soul.
What do you mean by "couldn’t handle the Orthodox Christian life"? Is there some special practice in the Orthodox church that is harsh/too hard?
I was muslim became Christian and protestant church is full of selfish people and they playing with bible text to beat each other i dont like them att all i stil believe in Christianity but i leave the church for good
My theory, the Great Schism hurt the church badly. If there was never a great schism we would have worked out our errors and issues sooner and more effectively and we wouldn’t have 1000+ denominations
It was precisely the inability to work out errors that caused the schism, wasn't it? It seems like saying the schism prevented working out errors is backwards. Like saying if it hadn't been for World War 2 then Hitler wouldn't have invaded Poland.
technically there was no schism. Meaning, it was not the Church that broke in two. The Franks infiltrated Rome for political purposes: to expand their empire. THE Church is never in schism. It is ONE. And Rome simply became hostages of the Franks.
@user-tg5mq8ky2y It has profited the church. The EO and RCC are obsessed with practices that are not under pinned by scripture. God bless the protestors....
I disagree
Literally a dozen denominations not hundreds nor thousands 🤣
Anathema to those who call the Sacred Images idols.
What's a sacred image? 🤦
Anathema to those who anathemize others
Did Jesus christ said that ?
You good? I think not. Repent and believe in Christ!
Anathema to those who call idols sacred images
“God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.” ST. John Chrysostom
YUP
Yup, and then Chrysostom will turn around and say you need to be baptized (a work) to be saved, and also that you can lose your salvation. Do you believe this?
“I mean about diligence in almsgiving, and about helping our neighbour by all means which we are able to use, since it is not possible to be saved in another way.” St John Chrysostom
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself". - Matthew 22:35-40
"And the second is like it" = it amounts to the same thing, it is Christ's commentary on what it means to love your God with all your heart. The first Commandment is from Deuteronomy, the second from Leviticus, they are not stated together in this specific relationship in the Old Testament.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 notice how Chrysostom says you are justified by faith alone but says you are saved by works. It is far more likely that he uses the saved elastically to refer to sanctification and glorification
@@aslan2709- It is far more likely that St John Chrysostom uses the word "saved" to refer to the Great Commandment where faith in God means to believe in the equality of human beings and, therefore, in good works. The Orthodox Liturgy is written by St John Chrysostom and it is far more likely that the Orthodox Liturgy carries over what the Saint meant rather than a Protestant interpretation of Christianity that lacks apostolic succession and has been invented 15 centuries after Christ in a vacuum.
I was protestant for 30 years. And very into my faith. I always wanted more, because I wanted to know Christ more.
After 30 years, I have become an Orthodox Christian. It truly is the fullness of the Faith.
I will forever be grateful for the lessons I learned in my youth as a Protestant. Without it, I may never have reached this point.
Christ is King. Amen.
My story too.
@@Alexander-Herman God bless! welcome home brother
God bless! welcome home brother
Salvation is by grace through faith, not by attending a building on Sunday or by getting baptized by priests. Ephesians. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
@@NaturallyCreated by grace through faith which works through love, "So also faith, if it has no works, is dead by itself." (James 2:17).
So, if there's no works of faith, if there's no obedience to Christ's commandments such as to "be baptized by a priest", there's no love to God, and there's no saving faith.
If the Eastern Orthodox Church is place of heresy and wrong teachings, how come so many saints came of this Church?
Can a bad tree give good fruit ?
This is the best rebuttal. I'll take the lowest Orthodox Saint before the best Protestant theologian.
There are no good fruit amongst humanity.
You can literally make the exact same argument for every Christian church.
@@ogloc6308
No.
I am a Protestant but sympathetic to EO. In my view, the strengths of Orthodoxy are as follows: 1) the customs and procedures don't change, which protects them from modernism (rock music, ugly buildings, taking things lightly, ugliness in general). 2) they have good music. 3) Good architecture. 4) they take worship very seriously, and everything looks solemn. On the other hand, what concerns me is the following: 1) they say that they are THE church, and I see a lot of talk online about how you have to be in the church to be saved. 2) they don't seem to have a clear teaching on salvation. I see a lot of "you just come into the church, and then Theosis." 3) Praying to saints is a dubious endeavor at best.
As for a lot of the Protestant denominations, I think the biggest problem is the lack of culture and tradition. They don't seem to have any regard for beauty, and they just change their practices continuously based on whatever music is playing on the radio or whoever they can get to build their buildings. If you change the music all the time, then how can sing along during the worship service? Also having screens instead of hymn books is a terrible idea. It seems lazy, and shows you treating the worship service more like a concert than a serious event. Also, books still work even when the power is out. So there we are.
The teaching on salvation is simple: Become a member of the Church; Because, yes, the Church is One. Baptism is the entry point, unless you've had a previous Trinitarian Baptism(most non-Orthodox don't do triple immersion like we do, and always have done) and your Bishop decides you'll be Chrimated instead. I wanted Baptism, insisted on it, so I went to ROCOR, where I was Baptized.
Now, having been initiated Into the Church, do what the Church does and always has done. Repent. Continue repentance; Take up your Cross and follow Jesus until you die, in the arms of His Body.
There's a lot to unpack, but it's not that hard. "If you love Me, keep My Commandments."
@@nicodemuseam So you guys really do think that church membership + baptism is what saves? In that case were Peter the Great and Irene of Athens saved? Those are just two examples off the top of my head but I can think of more.
@@nicodemuseam Hi, I'm a former Protestant. I was baptized by a Protestant pastor (Lutheran) in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, though, not triple immersion. This occurred in a natural body of water. Now, I'm not one to desire the Pharisaical "jot & tittle" style of overly zealous religiosity that appears to plague ancient religious traditions, but I *am* an Orthodox Christian catechumen, so, I was wondering what your opinion on my future baptism or charismation should be. Is being re-baptized utmostly necessary? The Lord did say that one would be enough.
@@ChristAliveForevermore
The standard answer is: Do whatever your Bishop tells you to do.
You may know of the controversy in our day regarding the reception of converts: I myself wanted to be re-baptized when I was received five and a half years ago because I leaned toward the Rigorist position of "no Mysteries outside the Church," so I went to ROCOR where I would be Baptized instead of being received by Chrismation with the Antiochians, even though I had a Trinitarian baptism in some World Harvest church years ago.
At this moment, I think I hold more of a Royal Path position. I think all Baptisms should be done according to the Apostolic form, and I don't believe that people should be denied Baptism if they ask for it, but I don't believe that someone will somehow be in trouble if they're received by Chrismation; As I understand it, Chrismation imparts the grace that it is intended to seal in that case(the grace of Baptism), since the sanctifying grace of the Mysteries is not without or outside of the Church.
If you have any further questions, I definitely advise talking to your Spiritual Father; He's the one who will be initiating you in any case.
Spot on man, Spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself OP. Great comment .
Would love to see this same discussion but with someone who is still an EO priest and not a former EO priest. It would be really interesting to hear this conversation with an EO priest who is formerly Reformed and hear why they are no longer Reformed and are now EO.
Both Jay Dyer and Fr. Josiah Trenham are former Reformed men who have become Eastern Orthodox.
@@gch8810 That would be great if he could have a discussion with Fr Josiah Trenham.
See Peter Gilquist's book Becoming Orthodox or James Bernstein's book Surprised By Christ. If you're willing to put in the effort of reading or listening to books rather than just watching a short video, both of those are about this subject exactly - Orthodox priests documenting their journey from being Protestant pastors to becoming Orthodox.
There are many. Jay Dyerrcis a good one - many vids, very knowledgeable. Also a leader of Campus Crusade for Christ- Fr Peter Gilquist- he and 20000 evangelical all became Orthodox-. These guys here know nothing.
Josiah Trenham’s book & interview Rock & Sand are a good rebuke of the thinking of these 2 who speak from ignorance. He was a minister, very educated by top reformer theologians before becoming an Orthodox priest. Jay Dyer was also reformed.
I would be very careful calling anything the Doxies believe "heresies." The Creeds of the early Church were systematically designed to keep heresies out of the Church: The Orthodox and Catholics still hold to the Creeds same as we do (or should). On anything else there is room for disagreement.
A heresy suggests it will damn the believer.
To Reformers/ calvinists, they are heresies. …… they think they’re elected and chosen to salvation , what a group.
@@truthseeker5698 I mean, I am a Calvinist, but I don't think they're heresies.
@lausdeo4944
They claim it verbally, deny it practically. They preach totally another Gospel, you can read about them in Galatians 1,8-9. Yes, they're utter blasphemers and heretics no need to be careful here.
@@luboshcamber1992 oh the irony, the Orthodox defends the Trinity and it's unity and your tradition blasphemes and separates it with penal substitution atonement theory.
No, you all hold the Creeds that the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox hold to and defined (you know any Bishops at the Council of Nicea from Germany, Holland, England, Scotland, etc) , and in the case of Protestants, the Latin Church passed on to you since everything North of the Alps from Poland to the British isles was brought into Christendom via the Church of Rome (Latin Church).
The gentlemen expert/ex-priest was Orthodox for about 30 seconds before being ordained…and just as quickly left the priesthood (comparatively speaking). I don’t know why anyone would take him seriously about anything related to Orthodoxy. These videos are mostly filled with strawmen and done in bad faith.
This host thinks he’s Matt Walsh. 😂
Right. This former priest is hardly a credible "whistleblower" about Orthodoxy. He clearly should never have been a priest to begin with. If anything, his leadership is at fault for letting him proceed so quickly into ordination based on his past "credentials" etc. Converts should wait 3-5 years or so (at least) before even entertaining vocations. Now we have this guy is loose on the internet spreading flat-out misrepresentations of a faith he actually never understood himself. This host would do better to interview an actual current Orthodox priest and have a good faith exchange. This guy is just bitter and both he and the host sound almost hilariously defensive in these "expose" style videos.
He was in for multiple years. So not exactly "30 seconds" like you claim
@@beardaquatics9163 you're missing the point....
Walmart "Great Value" Matt Walsh.
@@faithfulandfoolishyour point is nothing. You hate the fact that your church is exposed for some radical accretions that muddy the gospel
The Reformed are getting scared. Glory to God. May God arise and let his enemies be scattered!
@@magnusbekkestad I don’t see agnosticism and indifference. People flee to Orthodoxy as a refuge from these things.
That’s sorrowful that you left. May the Lord have mercy on us all, and I hope you haven’t given up entirely yet…
No, we're just waking up to the Satan's lies that EO and RCC told for 60years that they are also a part of the kingdom of God and we must never question their theology. You're coping and seething because we are waking up to the pagan roots to your religion and are fighting back.
We aren't scared of the EO. Pointing out the errors of the Orthodox Church doesn't mean the reformed are scared at all
Mr Schooping never fully entered orthodoxy, despite serving as a priest. He is a revert to protestantism. Unfortunately he never was fully catechized.
I was just about to write something similar. ROCOR is notorious for ordaining men that simply have testicles and a baptismal certificate.
Sounds like a problem with your church.
@@ReformedBrant the church is perfect. People like Judas still exist and refuse to be transformed.
@@deekay2680 if the church is perfect, why did they have an uncatechized priest?
@@ReformedBrant He was catechized. He refused his part to keep growing in the church. He rejected it
Lord have mercy on the former priest, may God guide him back to the Truth! ❤
I would point him to the verse which says that the Church is the "pillar and foundation of Truth" and that the Church will "never fall to the gates of Hades", which the former priest now denies as a protestant.
@@JWM75 so the followers of Arianism (the belief that christ isn't God, yet Christ is the person by which we go to God) are the Church just as much as the Mormons, JW, etc etc etc are?
The Truth is One, for Christ is One, and He is the Truth
The Pillar and Foundation of Truth is the Church (according to the Bible)
@JWM75 exactly, and what does He say (through divine inspiration of St. Paul) is the "pillar and foundation of Truth"?
The Church.
Not your personal interpretations or your heretical protestant (JW, Calvinist, Mormon, etc etc +10,000 denominations) "churches"
I see- like many , you’ve both conflated a few examples of Christian Orthodoxy to equal all Orthodoxy . I came from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy - I have prayed and studied ending up a reformed Protestant , our historical Christian. That path of seeing Truth took me out of any local church in the South . My personal library matches your guests off 400 volumes including Sproul, Packer , Calvin , Augustine, MacArthur, Surgeon etc - to sum it up, I was protesting as a Protestant against manmade churches a literally would watch new ones pop up overnight- most times due to Protestant church splits over dogma, money, preaching styles or hurt feelings. So I’d Love to hear, if Orthodoxy isn’t Christ’s Church then WHAT church represents His Church here on Earth? The 50 versions of Baptists? Or the 6 versions of Methodists? Or the Presbyterians? Or the Penecostals famous in the South… wait maybe it’s myriad evangelicals churches called community churches AD NAUSEUM ! But it seems you’re leaning towards Calvin and Augustine so maybe it’s the bastardized non church of RC, MacArthur, Ravi and others … All members of different DENOMINATIONS and with thousands of unique denominations Protestants have no TRADITION, - your slippery slope continues to place the way for churches founded in NOTHING, while Orthodoxy holds fast to Tradition, Scripture and rock solid Biblical beliefs like male only priests, no accepting LBGTQ pastors, biblical family oriented congregations and TRUTH from day one aligning with the entire Bible . For the most part, like 95% of Protestants (as you know, those that protest) have no foundation… when offended by God’s Word you move on, creating yet another Church of Christ #9. To your points of ecumenical authority - please do tell… what ECUMENICAL authority brings together all Protestants aligning under what authority? That’s easy =NONE . You’ve never aligned, you never will - Why? Because you place man first versus Christ first. In Protestant churches by large it’s preached and taught Jesus is your buddy, ie., Joel Osteen or Rick Warren - need a better parking space? Ask your buddy Jesus for it! Protestants have no fear of God, no reverence, what’s ok today can change tomorrow , a person claims they’re called to preach? Great get her up there so we can all be misled - shame on you both , Lord Jesus Christ mercy on us
What are you even trying to say here??? That having denominations is bad? Are you a Catholic and think that there should only be ONE CHURCH and the Pope is its messenger?
@@JohnDorian-j7x reread their comment, they literally started off saying that they are Eastern Orthodox. They converted from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy. Catholicism is totally different. Eastern Orthodox Christians do not fall under the authority of the Pope. That’s in large part why they separated from the Catholic Church to begin with.
Then why are they talk about how bad having other denominations are? Why are they saying no one should be able to set up their own church? It sure sounds like they're arguing for a single and established leader of the church to lead the flocks in the "right direction"... which of course, that single powerful authority is the one who controls said end.@@faithorr4895
Church is any where 2 or 3 born again believers gather. We are save by grace through faith. Not of works its a gift from God. Salvation isn’t in church membership or in getting baptized. The thief on the cross was never baptized but went to paradise with Jesus.
Amen brother.
I am currently a Baptist, but I am very interested in Eastern Orthodoxy. I feel an extreme calling to read the history of my faith and to put the Bible into the context of the Church. Something that is sorely lacking in modern day Protestantism.
I see so many people online saying that EO believers lack Christ, which couldnt be further from the true. The EO Church, to me, has a far greater understanding of Christ and His relation to the Father and Holy Spirit than any other denomination. How can you "accept" Christ but reject the Church that he has created? I cettainly cannot, which is why I am studying for myself.
Lutheranism or Anglicanism sounds like would be a good fit for you.
@@reformedcatholic457 You could definitely make the argument that Anglicanism or Lutheranism is the way to go for a more traditional Protestant experience. However, I think it's a cope for someone to be exploring Christian tradition and history to then land on Anglicanism or Lutheranism as an alternative to modern day Baptists or Evangelicals. I mean, you have about 1500 years of time between Christ walking on Earth to the formation of either of the two denominations. At well as the many problems each of these denominations are facing in modern day society. I'm not saying Orthodoxy is free of issues, but Orthodoxy seem like a far more stable Church than anything Anglicans or Lutherans have to offer. Just my opinion.
@@reformedcatholic457 No, he doesn’t need the man made traditions and dogmas of Martin Luther, Philip Melanchthon, Jacob Andreae, Martin Chemnitz, Nicholas Selnecker, David Chytraeus, Andrew Musculus, Christopher Koerner and Johann Gerhard.
@Paul-el4zd Everyone has tradition that are man made, question is whether they're biblical or harmless. For an example the sign of the cross is man made such as the sign of the cross which St. Cyprian explained and goes no further in history but it's harmless.
So, what is the man made tradition in Lutheranism?
@@reformedcatholic457 For example, the man made doctrines of sola scriptura, sola fide. All Protestants, including Lutherans reject the normative authority of the Church Catholic-holy Orthodoxy. Christ gave us a visible church, guided by the Holy Spirit, not an invisible church with no real authority.
Protestants find heresies in Eastern Orthodoxy!?!?
Protestantism is built on heresies!
😂😂😂
Prayed to Mary and other idols yet?
@@starlodear2987No but venerated Jesus the Theotokos and icons of the saints. ☦️
@@starlodear2987You know that many prots worship The Bible as an idol, right?
@@MrWesfordI'm unaware of this being the case. Can you cite some examples?
@@MrWesford John 1:1 and John 1:14.
Christians uphold scripture because of those verses, among others. We don't worship the bible, but the "word made flesh" -> Jesus Christ
I stopped listening when he said that St. Chrysostom and St. Symeon believed in penal substitutionary atonement smh
They hear what they want to hear. Itchy ears.
We must pray for all people that are a product of the schism. For a lot of People that enter the Orthodox Church came out of Protestantism. I myself met Jesus on the campus of the university of Arizona many years ago from a campus minister preaching the gospel and I thank God for that occasion daily. Later in my walk with Christ I realized that something was missing and that which was missing was acknowledging the importance of tradition, history and the realization that God wants us to acknowledge the five senses which he wants us to experience while attending church. Orthodoxy is the fulfillment of everything a Christian needs. Message to all who attend the ancient churches: Pray for our Protestant brothers and sisters and let stop fighting and arguing. We must unite. There’s too much evil in the world and the enemy loves division. God bless everyone.
The schisms produced the (Nestorian) Sasanian-Persian unorthodox AntiChurch, the (EuTychian) Coptic-TewaHedo unorthodox AntiChurch, the (Photian-Kirillic) NeoPlatonic Greco-Russian unorthodox AntiChurch, the ("pornocratic") Frankish Latin uncatholic AntiChurch, and the protestants. JeruSalem lost Apostolic Succession in 422. AntiOch lost Apostolic Succession in 428. Alexandria lost Apostolic Succession in 444. ConStantinoPolis lost Apostolic Succession in 877. Rome lost Apostolic Succession in 896. Moscow never had Apostolic Succession.
Was it Brother Dean at the U of A???
Why? Are they going to hell if they aren't Orthodox?
This is a beautiful comment. I never thought of it this way, that you engage all five senses in the Orthodox Liturgy. You see the liturgy. You hear the liturgy. You smell the liturgy in its incense. You touch the icons and the priest's garment, and also the floor when you prostrate. You taste the Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@JohnDorian-j7x God decides. I can say this as someone who lived for 20 years as a Protestant....there is no "working out your salvation with fear and trembling". God did something so there's nothing to work out. There is no established way to live out the Christian life except getting other people to take that altar call. The Orthodox Church perfectly understands the nature and development of the human soul, and everything one does in the Church, from the services, to the prayer life, to the church community....everything is designed to shape the human person, to grow them into someone who loves Christ more and is closer to Him.
It's *not* that there is no salvation outside the doors of the Orthdox Church(again, God decides)....it's that the path of salvation and becoming truly reformed in God's image and likeness is nowhere as clearly laid out as it is in the Church. And everyone should get to experience that.
Can you discuss in another series how Protestantism explain St Cyril closed the Council of Ephesus with an Akathist to Theotokos? As a Byzantine Catholic who grew up in a Dutch Calvinist I find it helpful to have an irenic conversation. Especially when we can find anomaly in any traditions. For an example Luther and Calvin believed Theotokos was ever virgin until her death. But most Protestants don't profess this.
She has children. Jude .
@@albusai Nope. She was betrothed (not married) to Joseph, an older widower. The term "brother" was used for close relatives, and even now we speak of step-brothers, etc. One of the Apostles is commemorated as "James, the *Brother* of the Lord" by the Orthodox, who simultaneously believe in the ever-virginity of the Mother of God, as they always have. The real question for Protestants is: Why don't you believe what your own founders believed? Luther and Calvin would be drummed out of the churches which bear their names nowadays for their beliefs about the Virgin Mary.
I'm glad this man left the priesthood of Holy Orthodoxy... It is quite clean he does not understand it in the slightest...
I hope in time the Lord will show him love and mercy and call him home. ☦️☦️☦️
Oh. And you are better than him and God has chosen you over all people? You must be admiring yourself. You was wise enough to reach that right gnostism wich leads you to orthodoxy and therefore to salvation.
@@gabrielgabriel5177 Don't shit,you don't know anything.
He’s probably been hurt somewhere down the road and never gotten over it.
@@gabrielgabriel5177you just described Protestant Calvinism lmao
@@JAB541 i am eastern orthodox. But some orthodox believers seems to think that orthodoxy is gnostism. I mean that you need to have certain knowledge in order to be saved. Many people around a globe does not know anything about church history nor teachings of fathers. They barely have new testament and they just believe what they have. In china forexample underground christians do not have lot of information maybe just some parts of new testament BUT they have lot more zeal than we avarage orthodox believers have. They are willing to die for they faith and they deny themself and go jail becouse they want to proclaim the good news to other people also. And what do we avarage orthodox people do?? Most just live life like all other people who dont have any religion. We have lot of knowledge (gnostis) but what do we do about it? In Filokalia it is written that knowledge without practise is only for bad.
I am a sinner, and if I'm not faithful or repentant enough, then I will reap what I sow.
But I am no apostate. I'm praying for you Joshua. You have committed a great sin.
Lord have mercy on us both.
What's enough
@@MinisterRoy205
Whenever God says its enough; Fear God and work righteousness.
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
With titles like this for videos, I don't blame people for being atheists! I'm Greek Orthodox I have nothing against Roman Catholics who believe as we do, in what the Apostles Creed declares. I love my Protestant brothers and sisters too and their love for Jesus Christ as much as I do. What I dislike is politics in the church. I understand that doctrine matters but I believe simply knowing and understanding the Holy Trinity and communing with the Holy Spirit matters the most.
This is the most important and most overlooked comment on this entire topic that I’ve found so far. Well said. I agree. I know we all have some major things that keep us from exactly communing together, but we are all Christ’s if we keep the Word, the Creed, His Commandments, and the Sacraments. Church government, semantics, and culture difference makes the dialogue hard.
@@AndHeShallReignForeverAndEver Amen brother! 🙏☦️🌹
This. 1000× this. Being in Holy Communion with the Apostolic Church of Christ is frankly a gift during these confusing times, but the true kernel that begets Salvation is faith in Christ our Savior. God is great enough that faith in Christ saves by His grace. May the Holy Spirit guide all of His children to His Church wherein we may all partake in Holy Communion together. Lord, have mercy on us all, for we are sinners...
Doesn’t your church have a problem with them announcing their anathema? Yall can drink with them but not them with you. Yall are weird
One of my favorite aspects of Orthodoxy in my conversion so far is the veneration of Mary. She’s the single most significant human (other than Christ) of all time. She consented in complete free will and obedience to be the gateway for the Son of God to become incarnate as man. In her womb Heaven and Earth met and she became the Mother of God. She lived her whole life choosing not to give into her sin, showing us exactly what all of us can be capable of. She is more honorable than the cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim, seated in Heaven below God alone.
It’s shameful how the past 20 years of my Protestant upbringing chose to view her as nothing more than a vessel. How easy it was for them to cast her aside every day, only mentioning her during one day of the year. It is because of her that salvation was able to come into the world through Christ’s sacrifice. You’re right, she isn’t God, but your belief that she isn’t worth of veneration only shows your unwillingness to recognize that she had courage and faith beyond that of anyone to ever live.
I truly feel sorry that have such a limited mindset on who you’re allowed to so appreciation for
If the church is infallible why there were schisms before 1517? Oriental orthodox, Roman church, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic etc..
Let me put this way, is Christianity false because people leave it? Reflect on what you said and see how dumb it is. God bless
@AsielCruz-Gonzalez No. That's not what I'm saying. When there is a schism people are not leaving the Christian faith, but still within Christianity depending on the theology.
Nice!! Glad you left orthodox, pastor. God bless😊😊
Yeah Episcopalians and Methodists have both schisemed from themselves within the last 2 years. Protestantism is crumbling whereas The Holy Orthodox Church is growing rapidly, especially here in the United States.
such flawed logic. For the times in history when Protestantism boomed faster that EO would you claim that Protestantism was the correct faith and EO was wrong? No, you wouldn't because you're a liar like Satan whom you serve.
Yeah. Broad is the way that leads to destruction. Few are the ones who are saved. That passage alone throws shade at EO and RCC.
Globally orthodoxy is losing 100ks of members to protestants every year.
53Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread which came down from heaven-not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Turn Away
60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”
61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
Notice what is always absent in these kinds of "dialogs"...an actual eastern orthodox
exactly. just non-christians attacking the true faith. Same old story.
@@deekay2680 As a baptised Greek Orthodox Christian, I believe it’s wrong and prideful to say these people aren’t Christians and that any one particular church is the One True Church.
@@sotiriosnovatsis4529 they follow a different gospel. They do not follow the apostolic gospel as given. Hence they are outside of the church as it was given- by their own deliberate decision, mind you, starting with the Frankish popes. They said they wanted to be separate and follow doctrines of men. It’s actually their proclamation not mine. Salvation is God’s alone but He gave us His path to holiness- His Church-which they vehemently reject. They can’t have it both ways. It’s not prideful to point out heresy- as the Apostles taught us. Not my own personal ideas.
It is prideful for any individual to put their own ideas above apostolic teachings. Unfortunately all of western sects do that- they were all products of the enlightenment/age of reason in the middle ages.
We pray for all to come to His Church and be healed. Eleison . Translated as ‘mercy’ but it literally means ‘heal’. His church is a spiritual hospital that offers spiritual medicine in the holy mysteries. It is not a courtroom- as western sects have. They redefined sin as a crime - whereas the gospel teaches it is an illness. Big difference. Burning people at the stake exclusively in western sects- whether Joan of Arc or the Salem witch trials- there is none of this in Orthodoxy. The Church founded the first hospitals as part of the Church. Did you know that? Healing soul & body by the Great Physician.
Proclaiming the Gospel- as given to us- is not prideful. And it is the devil making people think it is- it is false virtue to say ‘they’re all part of the church”.
Learn the history of your faith and you will see. The Church is people worshipping Him as one, unchanged by time, one with the Apostles and saints before us. Because the Church spans heaven and earth. Eph3:15. That only exists in Orthodoxy, which is 1 faith, 1 piety- everywhere-and it’s the same as the early church. Timeless, as God is timeless.
@@deekay2680Luke 9:49-50
All you are displaying is unchristian pride
@@bruhmingo nope. I take no personal pride. The people in this video attacked the True faith. They are against the church not on the side of Christ. You have misapplied Luke.
Luke 9:50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”
They are against Christ and not on His aide.
Lord have mercy on him, Thankfully for him Jesus is more merciful than me
If Scripture alone interprets itself then why are there Lutherans and Calvinists?
Bc people come to different conclusions on secondary issues. Not that mysterious
@@Bigchickens Who Christ died for is a secondary issue?
@NavelOrangeGazer Very few actually held to limited atonement and yes, it's a secondary issue. Adhering to the Holy Trinity, two natures of Christ, salvation by faith etc.. are primary doctrines and essential.
I can ask you the same thing sir, if the church is infallible why there were schisms before 1517? Oriental orthodox, Roman church, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic etc..
@@reformedcatholic457 Disagreeing over whether the use of icons is permissable or sinful idols is a secondary issue? Idolatry is a secondary issue?
EO people, what is your response to what he said about penal substitution? It’s clearly taught in Scripture and it’s the heart of the Gospel. What do you believe?
f there was a great apostacy, and if the true faith was restored a whopping 1800 years later, then god is either incredibly incompetent, or outright malicious, or both.
Watch Seraphim Hamilton and David Erhan
No answer because they do not know scripture. Yet they claim their religion has authority over it. LOL
The other guy that replied is a perfect example as to why they are actually a cult posing as "Christian."
Catechumen here so certainly not an expert but what commits me to EO is its commitment to the importance of what exists within the human heart. To me this is what makes EO actually nonsectarian and affirms the importance of both faith and works. And icons are like books. Books generate images. As we read the new testament we imagine the descent of holy spirit as a dove. Isnt this an image? They are venerated because they assist in the worship of god in the heart (we dont worship the holy mother and we dont worship a dove) I suspect the 2nd commandment to be most concerned with the worship of secular substitutions for the God of the Bible such as politicians/political ideology, popular philosophies, science, and the images of self/personality. Facinating video though because i have read the speakers book on Theosis and to listen to him now criticize the home of that tradition is interesting.
@@Death2Compromise God Bless you as well. My Pastor tells me interest in Orthodoxy sky rocketed since Satins agenda came out in clear view during the plandemic. I'm one- I needed to be with people that view the world (central governments, cooperations, central banking) as evil (though there were theological interests I had before the plandemic). I needed to be around people with spiritual integrity and not these phonies that base their worldview around themselves and other false idols as gods. I am thinking there are millions of people who feel similarly to me needing to worship Christ in a manner that doesn't serve mammon. So now we're seeing videos from protestants throwing shade on orthodoxy probably due to concerns about reduced congregations. We should all be rallying around the one true catholic and apostolic church.
It's a historical fact that the Apostles possessed no Icons.
This has been extremely helpful as a reformed person who wasnt familiar with orthodoxy i could tell just from talking with an ortho bro for a couple hours that it was sketchy view of salvation. Faith + work when it is all over scripture it is a GIFT of God
Also you did not explain Gregory Paloma’s (sp?). What did he say that you questioned.
I’ve yet to see any Protestant RUclipsr have humility, love in their hearts or walk the path of our lord and savior. We pray for them. ☦️
You need to get out more
See Gavin Ortlund. He’s very gracious.
The complete hypocrisy of your comment is not lost on us... maybe lost on you, but it's plainly obvious to us.
@@wilsontexaswhen a protestant takes the Orthodox (and Catholic) explanation of icons as the devil's advocate. With no irony, humor or contextualization. Lord have mercy you can.
@@wilsontexasJordan b
Cooper is another.. paul vanderklay is another.
Not defending EO at all but, denial of PSA is not a heresy. Penal substitutionary atonement was not formally articulated until 1871.
maybe the reason it took so long is because PSA is not an apostolic doctrine and it's formulators are not part of the church?
This is not true
It's also not true that EO denies penal substitution. Schooping's claim of that was not accurate. He himself may have denied it, but EO theology does not.
@@patrickbarnes9874to my understanding they don’t emphasize the penal part but not the substitution part
Every Christian will have to give an account for how he/she lived out the truth they have learned from the Bible. What institutional church they followed or attended will be irrelevant. There is one Truth, one Holy Spirit that teaches us truth and He is promised to indwell and teach all who are truly following Jesus and living a life of faith in Him where their faith is shown by their works. We are to work together to encourage one another to love and good works and to carry one another's burdens. Spend time and money to unify the church and reflect Jesus to this hurting and broken world. There is some false teaching in every institutional church, including the Evangelical Protestant church.
I was expecting that two people who were born and brought up in an environment shaped by western rationalism would have faced a certain difficulty to approach Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Different culture, different language, different emphasis, all anticipated.
I wouldn't expect Mr. Shooping though to claim that he was in "Far Eastern philosphical and theological studies" and then to show not only disrespect for the tradition of the Desert Fathers like St John of the Ladder (41:50) but to also confuse the doctrine of Theosis (Godification) with the mediocrity of "salvation by works". I truly wonder what the man has learned from his studies, about, not only the Far East, but East in general. But then I did my search in Google and I found that Mr. Shooping had written a "Manual of Theosis: Orthodox Christian Instruction on the Theory and Practice of Stillness, Watchfulness, and Ceaseless Prayer" two years before discovering that the Orthodox Church is anti-Scripture, anti-Biblical, Gospel rejecting, containing three deadly (sic) heresies.
The same person who meant to teach us how to become godified "through stillness, watchfulness and ceaseless prayer" following Orthodoxy, two years later took the task to teach us how to lose Salvation following Orthodoxy. Very interesting.
The best was kept for the end though: "They have that sort of genetic (sic) inability to understand the doctrine of justification by faith alone" he concludes in 43:00. Did I hear that correctly? I listened to the passage again and again. The man unashamedly uses a racist slur against congregations with a 2000 year uninterrupted history, Churches that produce martyrs even today. Their problem is not their illiteracy, nor the lack of proper theological training of their clergy (the way old Calvinists would view it). Their problem is genetic. Something in the brain or maybe deeper, that prevents them to understand the Christian Truth as is exposed by people with proper genetics like Mr. Shooping.
I have to thank Pastor Joel Webbon for this podcast. I may not be a good Christian, but I can at least take some pride for not having become a "reformed" born-again of the sort of Mr. Shooping.
How tragic to see one of Christ's Shepherds abandoning the flock for the camp of wolves. Lord have mercy ☦
Schooping is not Reformed. Hes in the Christian Missionary Alliance. Last I checked, he denies Limited Atonement for example.
Perhaps little R reformed. He seems deeply immersed in Reformed writers. He’ll get there soon enough
@@chasingtheLord96 What exactly is little "r" Reformed? Does that include the Lutherans who have images and hold to baptismal regeneration?
I hope he does go full Reformed, because as of now, he has no definable position.
@Energetic Procession I'm hoping you can do response videos to this terrible series being made. God bless.
John Calvin denied limited atonement. I don't think anybody would say Calvin wasn't reformed.
Whatever cult he follows, he was never truly orthodox. He basically is another Judas.
Let us ask this: where does this self proclaimed pastor claim his authority from?
1) self declared....not biblical
2) self experienced...not biblical
3) group declared...not biblical
Protestant theology is man made and an error #hitcheswasright
LOL. Funny, considering most of your orthodox traditions are man made and not from the bible.
@@nerychristian what is more hilarious is u have clearly demonstrated ur gnostic philosophy, ur a funny person. You have feelings not facts, and follow the literal traditions of 16th Century, a bad English King, a monk and lawyer in their twenties and a disgrunted swiss priest in his 30s. U are funny!!! 😀
@@captainmarvel76927 I don't understand what you just said. Practice your English
@@captainmarvel76927 Remind me again.. was it the orthodox church who translated the bible into English? Oh, wait, I think it was the protestants who translated it into English. Yes, I remember now. Godly men who were burned alive for wanting people to be able to read the bible in their own language.
Didn’t men write the Bible?
No Joel, depicting an image of Jesus is not violating the second commandment. If you continue reading the second half of the commandment it was created because we are not to worship the image otherwise God contradicted himself when he told Moses to make images of cheribum for the holy of holies.
I myself am in the middle about images of icons of Jesus, in private is okay but maybe not in churches.
And yes, Schooping said early fathers were against worshiping images against the pagans and the later fathers were for it, seems to be a shift.
I would be actually interested to see you debate an Orthodox believer.
It wouldn't bode well for him seeing as Leighton Flowers bested him in debate even though I fundamentally disagree with Flowers entire soteriology. Webben has alot of work to do if he wants to meet another denomination on stage and have all the tools at his disposal.
Idk of a single Reformed person who has gone out and seriously debated Eastern Orthodoxy.
@@joshsimpson10 James White could match and best that comment.
@josh simpson I have to painfully agree with you. I'm reformed, and have been since 2005. Honestly, I'm just a lay person, but I could've come back with much better arguments against Leighton. It's not because I think I'm any kind of skilled debater, I just have been dealing with those same kinds of arguments leghton employs to try and throw you off being inconsistent with his own theological position. But he's getting awfully flirty with pelagianism and open theism these days.
@Rob Sengstacke James White does a number on Flowers when they debated and he does a great job at teasing out the inconsistencies.
I'm as Reformed as it gets but I wouldn't put someone who clearly has spent very little time debating these issues with "the outside" let's say and ultimately harming the cause in the process.
I would love to debate about this stuff and do alot online and somewhat in person but people are emotional so it breaks down alot. Flowers gospel is his own emotional version that has to make God not Omnipotent for the sake of their feelings.
@@joshsimpson10 Anthony Rogers did
Anyone who really wants some insight on this I strongly recommend Andrew Damick's book - Arise O GOD.
oh man, wait till they go to jerusalem & see all of the iconography
all of which was created hundreds of years after Christ and after the pagan influence had infiltrated Christianity.
I'm very glad to see yall addressing this.
Several years ago a good friend of mine left our reformed bible church and converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. At the time, I had some surface level discussions with an EO deacon who was a former protestant, it seemed they genuinely love Jesus, tradition, and "mysteries".
I was expecting our conversations to get hung up on predestination and election, but instead, we had a good conversation and agreed on creation, the value and authority of scripture, contempt for heretical liberal churches that deny Christ was raised, etc, but as I pressed the deacon on what he was referring to by the "mysteries" of Eastern Orthodoxy, I found that he believed that Jesus died for our sins, and His death was a fragrant offering to God, but the protestant concept of penal substitutionary atonement should be rejected, "because our sins were not upon Christ, nor did the Father punish Christ for our sins, or send Christ to hell, because that would break the Trinity".
It is right to say that Christ did not descend into hell, a better translation of the creed would be that Christ descended into the grave. However, Scripture is clear, that Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree (Col 2:14) and that our iniquity was upon him (Isaiah 53).
I could stop here, because it's evident that this is a corruption of the gospel.
Additionally, I've noticed that Eastern Orthodoxy has major accountability issues because it is so decentralized. Unlike Rome, who's "Holy Vicar of Christ" is physically prostrating himself before idols, Eastern Orthodoxy's highest authority is not a person, or the Bible, but Tradition. Somehow, the Eastern Orthodox parishioners really believe that because writings from the apostolic fathers are inside their parish library, they are the true church, and they can look the other way when Patriarch Kirill said "sacrifice in the course of carrying out your military duty washes away all sins".
Praying and prostrating yourself before images of angels? The Eastern Orthodox believer will unironically say that the angel from revelation 22:8-9 would understand that theres worship prostration and veneration prostration, big difference. Imagine getting on your hands and knees and kissing your boss' shoe and calling it "veneration". Imagine saying "Caesar Kyrios" and being like, "oh dont worry, im just venerating the emperor".
You last point on veneration is flawed. The reason you believe that you are uncomfortable with how the Eastern Orthodox venerate images is purely coming from your cultural background. In the East, veneration has always looked like that. It was always a tradition to bow down before an image or statue of the emperor, even by most true Christians. It is showing reverence towards those in authority. Based on implicit references from Scripture as well as pure reason, there is clearly a difference between dulia, which is honor given to everything other than God, and latria, which is honor and worship given to God alone. If you really want to honestly approach this topic you have to be willing to dig into the deep theological underpinnings for icon veneration as well as accept that large amount of nuance regarding this topic.
On your point about what Patriarch Kiriil said, you must understand the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic doctrine of redemptive suffering. Redemptive suffering does not take away from Christ’s sacrifice. Christians are united to Christ, therefore our suffering are united to his and are ultimately his. The Bible makes this clear in certain passages.
The early church taught the Ransom Theory. Penal Substitution was not even a thought until the Reformation period. I assume if God wanted us to believe something, it wouldn't take the church 1,500+ years to figure it out. I'll go with the early church on this. Penal Substitution is based on faulty modern translations (in some case purposely mistranslated).
One example is Isaiah 53:10. In the Septuagint, it says "The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed."
In the Masoretic text, which all Protestant Bibles are translated from: "Yet the LORD was pleased to crush him severely. When you make him a guilt offering, he will see his seed, he will prolong his days, and by his hand, the LORD's pleasure will be accomplished.
Christ and the apostles always quoted from the Greek Septuagint and never quoted the corrupted Masoretic texts - since there was no Masoretic text in the 1st century.
As for praying and prostrating before images/icons/people - does bowing or venerating something always equates to worship - Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David and others don't seem to think so. Here are just a few of many examples:
"Then David said to all the assembly, “Now bless the LORD your God.” So all the assembly blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the LORD and the king." (1 Chronicles 29:20)
"And Bathsheba bowed and did homage to the king. Then the king said, “What is your wish? Then she said to him, “My lord, you swore by the LORD your God to your maidservant, saying, ‘Assuredly Solomon your son shall reign after me, and he shall sit on my throne.’ (1 Kings 1:16-17)
- David called Saul "my lord" and bowed to him (1 Sam 24:8)
- Jacob prophesied that Judah's brothers will bow down to him (Gen 49:8)
- Moses bowed down before his father-in-law (Exodus 18:7)
- Ruth bowed to Boaz (Ruth 2:10)
- Joseph's brothers bowed down to him when he was governor of Egypt (Gen 42:6), bowed down to him presenting gifts (Gen 43:26)
- Daniel, David and Jacob all bowed before an angel
"Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas." (Acts 16:29)
- Jacob also bowed before the tip of his son Joseph's staff (Gen 47:31. Heb 11:21)
"Then Joshua tore his clothes, and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the LORD until evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust on their heads." (Joshua 7:6)
-
Abraham bowed before the people of the land (sons of Hamor) who were pagans (Genesis 23:12) Did Abraham worship them? I think not...
Joshua and his band worshipped god before the ark (since god's presence dwelt there) but the ark was an also an object of veneration (along with the imagery/iconography it depicted) same thing with the veneration of god's temple and footstool (1 Kings 8:44, Psalm 5:7, 99:5, 138:2, Matt 23:21) or Moses's serpent on a pole which the Israelites were told to look upon and venerate.
Veneration and worship aren't always the same thing.
@@orthodoxbox7004 This typical EO apologetic is ahistorical and dishonest, Clement of Rome taught penal substitutionary atonement in 96AD, when he wrote his epistle collected in the writings of The Apostolic Fathers.
During the first and second centuries, there was a plurality of views concerning the atonement of Christ. Some are more esoteric than others, and some are popular today. These theories are not all grounded in Scripture, for example, the recapitulation theory of the atonement is articulated by Irenaeus of Lyons. This theory sounds reasonable, but Irenaeus took this too far, suggesting that Christ had to redeem every aspect of life, including old age, thus Christ died at over 50 years old. Despite the plurality of views, there is one view of the atonement we see again and again, this is the penal substitutionary theory.
There are many writers who have addressed the completed work of Christ, Clement is one of the most eloquent, he writes “By love have all the elect of God been made perfect; without love nothing is well-pleasing to God. In love has the Lord taken us to Himself. On account of the Love he bore us, Jesus Christ our Lord gave His blood for us by the will of God; His flesh for our flesh, and His soul for our souls” (1 Clement 49:6). This implies that penal substitution theory was being taught by the generation trained by the Apostles. Other writers from the second and third centuries addressed this topic, notably Ignatius and Polycarp. In the eloquent epistle from the collection of writings known as The Apostolic Fathers, this view is seen in the writings of the anonymous Epistle to Diognetus, where the author writes,
"He [Christ] did not hate us, or reject us, or bear a grudge against us; instead he was patient and forbearing; in his mercy he took upon himself our sin; he himself gave up his own Son as a ransom for us, the holy one for the lawless, the guiltless for the guilty, the just for the unjust, the incorruptible for the corruptible, the immortal for the mortal. For what else but his righteousness could have covered our sins? In whom was it possible for us, the lawless and ungodly, to be justified, except in the Son of God alone? O the sweet exchange, O the incomprehensible work of God, O the unexpected blessings, that the sinfulness of many should be hidden in one righteous person, while the righteousness of one should justify many sinners!" (Diognetus 10:2b-5)
Clement of Rome articulates one of the earliest versions of what has been defined in the introduction as penal substitutionary atonement theory that is found outside of scripture. He goes to scripture to make his point, quoting and paraphrasing from Isaiah 53 in 1 Clement 16:4 writing, “This is the one who bears our sins and suffers pain for our sakes, and we regarded him as subject to toil and stripes and affliction.” While Clement is not divinely inspired, his work is saturated with scripture. The amount of scripture Clement references and paraphrases cause his epistle to be edifying, exhortative, and profitable to the Christian. However, it is not enough to look only to the words of Clement which he has paraphrased from scripture, one should search the scriptures themselves aided by prayer, the Holy Spirit, and supportive sources such as biblical commentaries to fully see penal substitution in the text; Isaiah prophesied concerning Christ writing,
“Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” and “Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.” Isaiah 53:4-6;11-12 (ESV)
However, there are sections of Clement's epistle which are difficult to interpret, such as 1 Clement 30:3, “Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God. Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being humble and self-controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words”; how can Clement quote Isaiah and say we are justified by works and not by words? It is because Clement is paraphrasing James 2:14-16 here. In The Letter of James, a commentary by Douglas Moo, the author comments on James chapter 2, arguing that the word “Justification” here, is not being used the way Paul uses the words in Romans. This is not a Justification that makes the believer legally right with God, this is a justification that proves to the believer that God is at work in them to produce the fruit of the Spirit, which gives the assurance of salvation, justifying the believers statement of faith to the created world. To quote Moo,
Critical to understanding the argument of the section and integrating it successfully into a broader biblical perspective is the recognition that James is not arguing that works must be added to faith. His point, rather, is that genuine biblical faith will inevitably be characterized by works. Trying to add works to a bogus faith is an exercise in futility, for only by “accepting the implanted word” (1:21) and experiencing the inner transformation that it brings can one produce works pleasing to God. James in a sense, proposes for us in these verses a “test” by which we determine the genuineness of faith: deeds of obedience to the will of God.
Clement, aware of this, goes on to write, "And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the Almighty God justified all men that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Clement 32:4).
It is the height of arrogance for NON Orthodox to critique How Orthodox interpret the Liturgical book of Orthodoxy. the Bible is the Orthodox liturgical text. everyone else is using borrowed capital. No idea what they are reading. That's why they make up so many false doctrines. All 6000 ancient manuscripts of scripture are Orthodox Bibles. including the OT- which is older than the heavily edited Hebrew bible. Orthodoxy is the NT church of Pentecost. There is no other source. So if you see scripture differently, then a pious Christian would want to know why they think differently than the early Church. And not critique the early church from a modernist prideful mentality. The presumption that you know scripture is false.
Christ died for our salvation but NOT as a debt payment to God the Father, which is blasphemous. He died to TEACH US extreme humility and the love of GOD. We all have to die to our cross as He did. Crucify our intellect, accept that we cannot have systematic theology derived from our fallen human reason. God is beyond our description. His majestic power is beyond our understanding. Hence we simply say it is a Divine Mystery. There is no logical explanation for the raising of Lazarus, the Resurrection, or His miracles. God's ways are not our ways
We therefore use apophatic language to describe GOD- what God isn't: ineffable, incomprehensible, immutable, without beginning or end.
Been to so many Evangelical, Protestant Churches and only ever went to 1 that inflicted Church discipline. Would love to know why the host presents it as somehow common amongst Protestantism. It's not.
On the subject of icons being idolatry, what about with the Ark of the Covenant have angels engraved onto it. Wouldn't that be considered idolatry by what they just said?
No one prayed to the Ark of the Covenant though... false equivalence.
Also, God Himself commanded them to build and carry that... He did not command people to pray to the dead or make images of them... Jesus gave exact instructions on how we should pray (Matthew 6:5-13) and the EO violates this command.
So many straight up lies. I don't believe for one second that M. Schooping was an Orthodox. As simple layman that just read patristic and Church Tradition in general, I can attest that he either read the same thing sideways or he never read it.
But he has a beard
Jesus is alive!!!!!
Nothing but emotional appeals, personal anecdotes, reports of mental states, claims without justification, and misunderstandings of Orthodox doctrine. Not an argument in sight for why Orthodoxy is wrong. Keep up the good work, you’re probably making more Orthodox converts than many of us are. ☦️👍🏻
I am a Protestant inquirer into Orthodoxy, but it seems that he, as a former priest, never understood the real meaning of icons. I have already learnt enough to see the misunderstandings. After seeing this videeo I definitely want to go on into Orthodoxy!
As an orthodox christian i dont believe i have to answer anything of that matter , the actions of the protestants speak by themselves , the saints who created the liturgy the churches and the icons did that by guidance of The Holy Spirit to create a haven, an ark inside the world , a place which can be a safe spot of worship and rependance .
The orthodox holy icons tell the stories of the saints , it is not statues, they are made in order for people to learn even if they dont know how to read about Christ and His people that truly follow Him .
Worship inside orthodoxy is not just a philosophy but a whole way of life , we live by christ our body is a temple and everything around is made to worship God everybody in the church while following the chants and the words do their spiritual battle and become one with the other in order for all of us to be saved by The Lord while the surroundings inside the church help us understand and see more of what a life by Christ means ! Of what were the crosses that individual saints were carrying !
Thats the real reason of being inside a church !
Also the orthodox Christianity icons are made in a way to not provoke passions and sins through the nakedness !
About the structures of the orthodox churches , there are no gargoyles to scare ppl, Christ never wanted His ppl to be scared , there are no sharp edges so ppl feel threatened .
We the orthodox christians are not perfect we are ppl with sins and passions but through The Holy Spirit's guidance we can make the city of God, the heavens jerousalem , the Bride of Christ and the churches are the structures of that city !
Apostles didn't venerate icons or Mary.
EO is a medieval accretion.
May God open your blind eyes, and heal them. ☦
Pray for this guy. ☦️❤️
Are they not?
Why? Is he going to hell if he isn't Orthodox?
@@JohnDorian-j7x You are missing the point. If he did his research properly he would have known it's not the same as RC. RC is from one individual, the pope. It was pointed out to me in Acts 15 that the church elders could come together with the Holy Spirit and make changes. Acts 15:28 If the early church didn't make those changes then only circumcised Jews would have been able to become Christians.
This is also a rare case of a priest leaving the Orthodox faith. By far the normal in America is for the Orthodox Church to receive converts from Protestants and Roman Catholics (and others as well) as can be seen from the growth of the Church. A mere 88K members in the mid 2000s to around 2 million Orthodox Christians today. No other church has that kind of growth rate while many other churches are bleeding members.
I have no fkn clue what RC is@@stevelenores5637
Of course not. Nobody is "going to" neither hell nor heaven, because heaven and hell are not places but states of being. And salvation is not a question of belonging to a certain religious group. It's about your inner transformation towards theosis. The point is, that this poor guy is trapped in doubts and erroneous conclusions about orthodoxy. His human mind has confused his path. Therefore this "pray for him". Btw: I am not orthodox.@@JohnDorian-j7x
Lord, Have Mercy!
My overall response to this interview with Mr Schooping is, in the words of Fr Stephen De Young of "The Lord of Spirits" podcast, "Uhm..nooo"
I am still looking for good arguments against the Eastern Orthodoxy.....
I left the Baptist church for the true Church I shall pray for you ☦️
I'm 'the church' as i witness for Christ when i leave the house to walk or to do errands, work in my yard and say "hi" to passers-by-ers, or make comments on yt - for this is where i find plenty of fellowship as God sees fit in my case(!)... otherwise, i'm quite the recluse as i work around the house and the property and pray and read HIS word - happy enough, as God has set me apart and so i'm not a protected person but very much the opposite, facing all sorts of challenges placed on me by the enemy and his huge numbers of minions, all joined at the hip these due in lrg part to technology(!) - for THESE TIMES now have shown me how busy the devil now IS, and eager to deceive, for his time IS short now ...I will die for Christ in the end, i think. I'm ready. 🙏💔🙏
Joshua Schooping shows he’s not worth taking seriously. He says Catholics reject Gregory Palamas. That’s just not true! Byzantine Catholics venerate Gregory Palamas on the Second Sunday of Lent.
Which literally makes no sense. It would be as if after 1962 the Orthodox Church suddenly started venerating Thomas Aquinas. It's absurd.
Honestly, I don't think Schooping received a very good education and/or he's being very dishonest in this interview. This is really sad.
In reality, it was not until the 20th Century when the Roman Catholics began to "reassess" Palamism (as the RC moved towards Vatican 2) and became more friendly towards it and the Eastern Orthodox Church in general, because for about five centuries Palamism was not at all accepted. I recommend reading Meyendorff or others on the history of the West's non-reception of Palamism. There was always a tension over this issue in the Byzantine Catholic churches, and was only tolerated by Rome proper.
@@dustinneely What you are saying actually makes no sense. The Catholic Church is both its Latin (Roman) Tradition and the Eastern Tradition. All Liturgical Rites in the early Church are part of the Catholic Church, the undivided Church of the 1st millennium of both West and East. The early CHurch at Pentecost is an example of Catholicity where you see Rome in the West as the farthest point, then to Greece and then across Egypt and the North African Roman provinces all across the Near East Roman Provinces to the furthest in the Eastern Roman empire, that is Mesopotamia. The Latin Rite is the Liturgy of the Roman Church, with sub-Roman Rites that are related to it, Ambrosian in Milan, Mozarabic in Spain, etc. Eastern Churches in communion with Rome retain their Liturgical Traditions and their Saints. Some Eastern Saints are venerated in the Latin Church, some Latin/Roman saints are venerated in the Eastern Church, and some venerated in one not in the other, etc.
Maronite Catholic Church from Lebanon is 1 ancient Eastern Church that never broke communion with Rome, uses Aramaic in its Liturgy and its roots are in the Antiochian Tradition. During the Council of Trent, the Chaldean Church relate to the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East (based in modern Iran, Iraq, parts of Turkey) came back into full communion with Rome has its roots in the East Syriac Liturgical Tradition related to Antioch which is a dialect of Aramaic. Those Churches are fully Catholic but not Roman Catholic by which it celebrates the Liturgy and has a Theological Tradition that is not for example tied into the Latin Fathers such as Saint Hillary of Poitiers, Saint Ambrose of Milan, Saint Augustine, Pope Saint Leo the Great, Pope Gregory the Great, Saint Thomas Aquinas, etc, etc.
@@palermotrapani9067 exactly my point. It's a bunch of ecumenist nonsense. You can believe whatever you want as long as you swear allegiance to the Pope. Monophysites and Nestorians are welcome. It's a joke.
"When you're trying to do apologetics with them, it's like trying to stick jello to the wall". This can so easily be applied to Protestantism. For example, speaking with contemporary Anglicans, they will say they affirm the BCP but reinterpret or deny all of the "Catholic" doctrines found in the BCP (like Baptismal Regneration, Priesthood, Liturgical Calendar). Some Anglicans are more Anglo-Catholic, and some Anglicans are Evangelical, some are inbetween. It's like sticking jello to the wall.
Higher and lower anglican, one is catholic the other is protestant, in faith.
Orthodox is the way the only way
And then Joshua spent 12 minutes saying he became an Orthodox Priest but, during Covid lockdown, became Sola Scriptura and rejected the Church that gave us the Scriptures, because his quote mining discovered Church Fathers who taught positions that aren't supported by Church Canon. Sigh, the purpose of the Councils is to establish the official Orthodox position on matters of disagreement. My catechumen process was extensive, and my baptism and chrismation was awesome. How did Joshua become an Orthodox Priest without understanding the purpose and authority of the Church Canons? As for icons, after God presented Moses the Decalogue, God instructed Moses to make icons of angels for the Temple, and to make a pair of gold angel statues for the lid of the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies!
Joshua was very intent on becoming a priest and was rejected a few times so he went to ROCOR to do it. He’s not very honest.
@@lwconley2005 Hey Lance long time no see. I've been attending an Eastern Orthodox church since just before Holy Week. Hope you're doing well these days.
@@somewizeguy hey man! Yeah I’m trying and hanging in there. I’m glad to hear that!
Exactly! It takes a life time to be decone let alone Priest. It takes life time to be priest!
I find there is alot to admire in EO although I'm non denominational myself. I can see why people leave Evangelicalism to go to EO. I personally don't agree with all the doctrines in both camps, but I do still see EO as saved
Only an ignorant would say orthodoxy is the same as catholism as the man said in the start of the video.
You are absolutely right. And those who are not familiar with EO will blindly believe his lies
@@Alexander-Herman You defenders of your faith prove what he is saying. Lol.
@@rebeccalindley153 I was a Protestant for 30 years...
@@Alexander-Herman I repeat, I like what all of you EOs have said here, it proves what they've said in the video.
@@rebeccalindley153 How it is said in the video that catholism is actually orthodox theology. It says it is the same. Only an ignorant or one that wants to deceive would say such says
I must say, I don't think it was wise, for the sake of the uninitiated of all things this channel, to frontload all those adds in rapid succession. Maybe during the middle or after the broadcast. That being said, because we can warn our EO and loosely-slipping Reformed friends to skip to a certain time. Because for a fact, THIS is a dialogue we need!
many would argue the danger is in believing PSA, including early church fathers. augustine did tremendous damage to the Christian faith.
Augustine is a saint and a doctor of the Church. Stop listening to Jeannie Constantinou.
@@GabrielWithoutWings i have never heard of that person in my entire life. what i see from augustine and scripture are the same difference between evil and good.
@@scottibreiding
Cool story. The 6th Ecumenical Council calls him blessed and a doctor of the church so take it up with the council fathers.
@@GabrielWithoutWings did they write the Bible?
If the Church is in error and has fallen after thousand years of beung continually and personally lead by Christ, I'm afraid there is absolutely no hope for any of tbe many thousands of protestant churches.
EO is a big question mark for many in the West including myself (though Jonathan Pageau has put it a bit more in the limelight). Looking forward to the continuation of this series.
Very simple to dismiss EO.
Prove they're faking their miracles.
Protestantism should be in a state of emergency re: EO in the U.S. The number of converts to EO is like nothing ever experienced in the past. Two years ago, a Pentecostal minister in my town shuddered the doors to his church and took his entire congregation into EO. They should be taken at their word when they openly state that they have come to convert the U.S. to Christianity.
@@DevinMork Would you care to elaborate on that? I'm genuinely curious where you're getting this idea from?
@@DevinMork That is if you can. One could say the same things you do about Protestantism, which is interestingly lacking in miracles.
Jonathan Pageau I don't think is a good source for Orthodoxy. Pageau will not give you an understanding of the essence energy distinction or the sacraments as mysteries or theosis or living the ascetic life or really anything distinctive to Orthodoxy. Pageau uses metaphors taken from Orthodoxy to communicate his philosophy. I think it's why he is so associated with Jordan Peterson, who does the same thing. Peterson's famous Genesis lectures really have nothing to do with Genesis. They use Genesis as a tool to communicate psychology. Pageau communicates Christ as an archetype rather than as a personal Savior, similar to Peterson. He communicates demons as metaphors for negative trends in society rather than as real fallen angels. He's a "cultural Orthodox." You're going to learn philosophy utilizing Orthodox symbols from him, you're not going to learn Orthodoxy. He can serve as a stepping-off point from which to investigate Orthodox theology, but don't think that you're coming away from his videos with an understanding of Orthodoxy just as Peterson's Genesis talks are lectures, not sermons.
Fight by flight sounds like retroactive justification for leaving because you wanted to. Like it's not entirely wrong you can do that, but I don't think you should pretend it's because you care about Californians so much that you need the state to fail. I'm from the Seattle area and as much as I hate the politics here I'm probably staying for the foreseeable future because it's such a spiritually dark place and we need to be the light of the world. I'll be on the front lines for now. I don't think I can help the PNW by leaving it.
A lot of believers have left the PNW because of the politics. It's a beautiful area and I don't want to be chased out by the libs. We have a dilemma.
@@paulinestickney4394 PNW is awesome it's just too expensive and the politics are really getting bad. It's definitely a battle zone (battling for souls in that sense).
Calvinism is a theology of anger. You can know that Christ isn't present with Webbon because of his smugness. "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Exactly. I noticed the attitude immediately. Smugness. (Noticed the opposite with the Patristix guy, and the Pageau brothers.)
Orthodox christians have the peace of christ. And humility of his servants ❤
Calvinism is also the heresy of predestination
Cope ad hom
Ironically, it is the Calvinist that acknowledges God's ultimate and unequal authority in salvation. -> Ephesians 2:8-10
It's not Calvinists that are boasting in their works, as you do...
Protestantism is irreducibly connected to individualism and revolution.
Whoah! Thanks for this. I've been wondering about this topic.
How can you excommunicate someone from a protestant church if theres no clear way of joining the church? And why would you kick someone out if you dont need works to be saved?
The truth lies with the Greeks ~~ Luther....COME HOME BELOVED FRIENDS (I am a Protestant convert to EO, so happy to be home)