I looked at this game so many times at the game store and never picked it up due to the high price point. This straight forward review just convinced me that this isn’t something we would enjoy at all. Love your direct style man without all the bullshit hype. Thanks for saving me money and keep up the great content!
@BoardGameBollocks well said! Can't believe how political and toxic our hobby can be, when it is entirely aimed surely at bringing people together in innocent fun
I’ve unsubscribed from the majority of boardgame channels as they’re either just marketing vehicles or they do it for cash/free games…tbh they never really spoke to me anyway…so I set up my own. The hobby is bigger than a handful of paid up influencers.
Great review, although I disagree with it. I think that maybe the biggest blunder that people make is to come with expectations of a heavy euro game. This is a war game, although a bit unconventional one (like the whole Pax series). If you build a strong stronghold via tribes, you can easily spawn an army and change allegiances if people conspire against you, which also prevents kingmaking (you can basically switch sides to become them) and at the same time you have a lot of cillinders which means that no-one will easily be able to pull the victory in the last dominance check. Also, you can win before last dominance check (which occurs more often than not). The whole beauty of Pax series games (e.g. Pax Porfiriana as well) reveal itself only after at least dozen games when you have internalized all possible options and ways to do things. Especially when all people are at the same level. Trust me, you would rarely be surprised in the last turns and no one could snatch victory being last by pure luck and positioning. But it does take time and practice. Same goes for Root and especially for Oath which is truly a tug-of-war social contract war game at it's finest.
Thoughts on oath? I watched a playthrough by the create and it seemed interesting but like it might suffer from kingmaking. Also wasn't super clear on how strong/well the generational/legacy elements were.
@@CWunderA Oath is my top 3 games of all time, one of a few tens that I gave (other being 1846, Kanban EV, Madeira and Go/Baduk). Oath is an event game, where you have many elements from Root and Pax Pamir, but this game force you even more to negotiate and the storytelling here is more between players than forced through some legacy/video game like content and forced upon you. I really respect Cole, I like his analytical stance on board games, he is war gamer at heart but every game he plays he finds a couple of ways to improve them and I find that inspiring. Also, I can see that he was very much into Archipelago because a lot of his topological and semi-coop part of Oath is, as far as I'm concerned, directly inspired by Archipelago, which I love. So, I'm pretty much biased but you also need a serious gaming group.
Fair play, it's not for everyone. But I think it achieves what it sets out to do very well. It's much more about seizing opportunities and pressing advantages than working steadily towards a goal. It does require one to be in a particularly resilient mood, because a sense of fairness just isn't one of the design goals. If I'm up for applauding the clever move that just viciously kneecapped me, this is the game I reach for. This was my first Pax, and I'd happily try some of the others.
I strongly disagree with this review but credit where credit is due. The majority of board game channels are far too soft on games to the point of being slightly dishonest. This is perhaps due to the fact that many of them are getting funded by the publishers to review it! I appreciate your straightforward critique and honest negative comments.
Interesting review, as your reviews always tend to be. This review stood out though as you obviously hated the game but showed the utmost respect for the designer and the effort he’s put into the game. The most refreshingly honest , and funny, board game reviewer on RUclips? I’d say so. Hands down.
Just discovered your channel recently, really great reviews, has really given me a clear idea on a few games I might have bought and I think youve saved me a bit of money! Anyways really appreciate the opinions, the content and all the work that must go into it, big thank you
I like PP a lot but it's definitely not for everyone, or even many people! Lots of more accessible games that the majority of gamers will enjoy more. It probably says a lot that as much as I like it I rarely choose to play it.
I disagree with this review pretty hard but still enjoy your point of view from it! Internalizing the rules for this one is tough but maybe I'm coming from it knowing that because all of Cole's designs can be a bit fidly but once you get it down it just opens up
I was just about to purchase this, I’ve heard great things from the Pax series. Thank you for saving me the disappointment from a mostly blind purchase. Subscriber earned.
I really like this game. Mainly because it is a pretty unique experience. Equally can understand your frustrations with it, though. You might want to give John Company second edition a miss!
I have First Edition which is a lot more bare bones in components. I think that I agree with you on this one. I acknowledge the cleverness of the design but have failed to find the fun.
I usually tend to find your reviews helpful and agree with them, but I don't completely agree with this one. I can see that the rules are a bit clunky and hard to remember. This is the kind of game enjoyed by people who don't mind sitting at the table with a player aid or rule book in their hands for most of the game. Yes, some of the actions can result in a bit of push and pull, but from a player count of four, it is hard to decide and find out with which players you have to fight it out. I saw that your recent videos tend to review lighter games and that's okay. If this game is not your cup of cocoa, fine. However, people who like to play Root, COIN games and similar games, this game might be still interesting to them.
I’ve reviewed dozens of heavy games and to be honest this is t particularly heavy with just two actions to choose from. It just has some poor design decisions imho.
Solid review bud. Played this for the first time tonight. Definitely a lot of rules to think about so it is definitely baptism by fire for new players. The yellow blocks and cylinders was confusing af. Overall still really enjoyed it and would play again.
Well that's another one off the list of possibilities. From all the way at the back here it looks like you're wearing a golf jumper, any chance of a review on that as that's also on my list?
Would like it in your videos if you suggested a similar alternative game you would recommend from the current game you are referring to in your experience. Great vids, keep em coming!
@@paulhamrick3943 I'm unaware of that one. The king is dead have that mechanic of you not being any nation, but 'bet' on them and whoever have majority wins. (Much more than that). And that's the core mechanism of Pax Pamir. With a lot of, for me, unnecessary stuff added on it.
@@nuuqbgg A War of Whispers is the same but you don’t bet you are randomly assigned the factions that you have a stake in winning. But very similar. I own The King is Dead as well as A War of Whispers but I have not had a chance to play The King is Dead yet. I’ve heard great things though.
@@paulhamrick3943 oh it's such an amazing game. A friend, after we played it, got Pamir as je loved the game but always want more and more stuff. We played Pamir twice and will never again. Played The King is dead 20ish times.
When I first saw your channel I was thinking, "Who is this over-the-top batshit geezer?" Well, it turns out that in a sea of paid promotion bullshit "reviewers," you're like one of the top 3 in the game. I don't always agree with your opinions or your abrasive style, but you're damn good and I appreciate your reviews. Thanks from some Yank!
I love this review. You paid respect to the designer, they effort, the details....but then gave your honest view. I agree the rules are fiddly... its a game I really wanted to love because the mechanisms and look of the game are so unique, but its just a frustrating mess. Thanks, this was great. At least you know you'll get your money back for it.
Did you try the solo mode? I wonder how it feels... Actually I wanted to buy this game but after your review I hesitate... Some thoughts about the solo mode could help me to decide 🙏
I am not a solitaire player, but many who are seem to feel Wakhan is one of the best solo modes in recent years, and I know some who bought the game just for that mode. It was designed by Ricky Royal, who has quite a reputation designing solo modes. Again, as someone who isn't really a solitaire player, even I do enjoy playing against Wakhan from time to time.
The solo mode with Wakhan is highly regarded, but if you don't like the regular game you are not going to like the solo game. . For me Pax Pamir is a brilliant game solo or multiplayer, but it's definitely not to everyone's taste!
Appreciate the review. I love this game but the colours have always bothered me. I didn’t even notice the yellow / yellow thing. It was the grey / black that makes zero sense to me. I check in on Etsy from time to time to see if there are any upgrades / alternatives so I don’t have to use the default coloured tribes / wheels in the game
Nice to have some honest reviews as I thought it was a load of pony when I played it but agree about the artwork and effort put into the history . Shame really
My husband and I are good friends with Cole and have been for quite a while now. The two of them went through phases together and I tagged along since the two of us play nightly. Cole, early on, played a lot of Martin Wallace games with us. Byzantium, God’s Playground, Struggle of Empires. Then we all started playing war games/block war games for a while. Cole’s a history junkie, clearly lol, but we all thought Republic of Rome was incredible. I think he often strives for that kind of depth with some sort of euro style. (He definitely got more into the coin games than either of us did!) Also, I can’t speak to this version or the original and how it played. My husbands the rules reader and it was just too in-depth. And we play hefty games. 😉 I think our highest play counts are from the original Brass? He’s a smart guy and he made a great game but given the fact that this didn’t play two player, we saw it impossible to get to the table. (In other words, I don’t need to know game play to agree with boardgamebollocks, as I often do! 😉)
@@BoardGameBollocks lol. Well the pieces certainly stand out better in the original. I don’t mind the cover art of the new one with, as I heard someone say the other day, the sad Brass man on the cover art, but the board just looks so dark. Plus, we have the special two player board and everything for the original, which I think has its charm about it too.
I respectfully disagree, but I still enjoyed the review! About the color choices, I heard that Cole Wehrle always aims to be colorblind friendly with his designs so that might be one of the reasons for the strange color options.
That’s why these kind of games tend to not sit well with “casual” gamers. “Casual” as in not playing a single game a dozen times when a single session takes 2+ hours. Heck, not even two or three times if the first session didn’t grab you. Fortunately, there are so many (good) games out there that even if you are not interested in putting that kind of investment into a single game you have plenty of options to choose from.
@@BoardGameBollocks Right. And that is exactly how it should be. My post wasn’t meant to belittle your review by the way, which I think is very valid. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you do come across as someone with a low frustration tolerance when it comes to games that don’t ‘click’ with you rather quickly. Which is fine. But maybe that’s just your RUclips persona.
i really did not get this game, even a dozen plays in. after playing online with experienced players, some cool tricks and plays were made that opened up the game for me. I still found it not worth the effort to get to the table and played, so i also recently got rid of my copy. an interesting game, but extremely hard to find the people willing to play it, so much so that i'd rather just not even bother trying.
A friend brought his kickstarter copy over and before even playing, I was like... WHAT about this convinced you to pledge any amount of money lol?? I can't even give the artwork a nod, if for no reason other than the God awful photoshop job they did on the wheat field card (or corn or whatever it was). If you hadn't noticed and own this game, go look at it...
Glad to hear your thoughts on Pax Pamir- I suspected you may have felt this way after dipping into your play through. I’m still wondering whether to give it another go or not after one play with a human and some solo games. 🤯
Like most Cole Wehrle games, you either need to play it a *lot* or not at all. You're only ever going to get value and fun out of this game (or his others) by playing them over and over again.
I've rarely seen a game as divisive as this one. I've played it with people that were genuinely mad after playing it, about how much they didn't like it. It definitely has some rules overhead, and it can be pretty difficult to figure out "how to win" on first plays. You have to be able to see certain things coming, like a game of chess. If the double score is going to make the person in last go to first, don't let them. Etc. Definitely not for everyone, and my copy hasn't been played in some time as a result. Personally, I want to try to dedicate the time and effort to learning and playing Pax Renaissance instead -- which is even harder, but much faster to play.
It’s completely random as to whether your able to allow the person in last to go first. Depends on the random draw and whether the cards you need are in the deck in the first place. A frustrating mess.
@@BoardGameBollocks There were no build or battle cards in the market or in other players' tableaus? The last place player was the only one with the opportunity to acquire cards from the market that placed blocks or had build cards in their tableau? No one was able to assassinate last place's tableau? No one was able switch to the last place's coalition?
So just as well I didn’t waste my petrol (and prob hub caps) driving the car down to Portsmouth then? Shame as it’s still my top game with Ra & Medici. Must put Cotton Club in the car boot then just in case I run out of petrol in your locality 😉.
Adaptation, momentum, politic and knowledge. If any of those concepts dont excite you, dont play oath or pax pamir. King makin, take that are concepts creating stories. It is a good thing with the right group, it creates tension. You dont need to like this kind of game 🙂 Incredible game, good points on the review. Just not a game for you
I've been on the fence about getting this game, watching rules and even part of a playthrough didn't help. With this you've convinced me to steer clear for I'm generally bothered by the exact same things in boardgames as you. Thanks a lot.
For me this game js the epitome of a tactics rather than a strategy game. You have to be turned on the whole time, watching the board and the market for opportunities with any of the 3 factions, and be willing to switch at a beats notice. Its impossoble to plan ahead too far in advance, which can be frustrating, but also exhilirating if you make and pull off a good turn. Definitely not a laid back game.
I agree entirely with your conclusion. I found Pax Pamir utterly baffling. It's theme is great but it never feels like the theme is what you're actually playing. Theme and mechanisms do not match. Power fluctuates far too randomly. It cost a fortune to buy and was a huge disappointment. Avoid.
It seems like the previous game had the theme and they lichens it to make a new game. I’m wondering if Eklund did the heavy lifting in terms of the flavour text and the new bloke slapped the mechanics on it. Can’t really say as I haven’t played the first one.
How do you know what I have or haven't read? The theme was what caused me to pay out over 100 euros for the game in the first place. Personally I think 'The Great Game' is a better simulation.@@malexander4094
I agree with basically everything you said. I played as yellow and I did almost accidentally count my piece as Russian. But most importantly, the rulebook could have been better. A lot of people who rate the game 10 said the rulebook was way improved - which means they must have suffered something horrendous for first edition.
Wow am I glad I never bothered with this. Pretty components aside, none of this sounds remotely fun to me. Just a whole bunch of bullshit all the way along. Thanks for saving me many a quid!
It's impossible to mistake cylinders of any color for Russian ones - because the 3 factions don't have ANY cylinders. Sure, at first glance, never having played the game, I can see how somebody might assume that the pieces might belong together. But as soon as you halfway understand how the game works there's really no room to think that a cylinder belongs to any of the 3 factions - because the factions use only blocks on the board. I don't think the color choices are perfect, but the gray and black player colors are the bigger problem. The first 3 dominance checks are NOT meaningless. Mostly because any of them can end the game and then the doubling of the 4th will never happen. But also because you don't have to let the player in the last place get all the points during the last dominance check. But it is a good way to keep players engaged in the game and the leading players on their toes. Plus many modern boardgames emphasize escalating endgame points for exactly these reasons (the whole Eric Lang trilogy for example). Otherwise players who didn't score during the first couple of checks would hopelessly go through the motions during the second half of the game where they can't keep up anymore. Also, the argument that everything one does immediately gets cancelled by an opposing action is kinda ridiculous. If player A directly counters every action player B does, then player A doesn't get anything done for him-/herself either. And if this is not just a 2 player game then player C (and possibly D end E) will happily exploit this. The fact that a spy can be countered by overflowing the court is not a problem at all. You presumably put a spy there because the card was worrisome - if removed by court overflow the opponent saved you an action and 2 rupies because you didn't even have to play a betray action. Great. Nobody needs to "remember" that the military suit doubles card market prices - it's printed right there on the "board" next to the suit icon. You didn't like the game - that's fine. It's not going to be great for everybody. But these arguments didn't make much sense.
Can't believe all the people coming out of their caves to defend this game. Blows my mind that all the heavy euros lovers defend this game, but then complain about ameri-thrash games. PP has the most random, bs plays I've ever seen. It's borderline similar to just rolling 2 dice and XZ=AB in terms of randomness.
I disagree that the double scoring on the dominance check ruins the game, it just rewards long-term strategies. I understand your gripes with the randomness, though.
@@BoardGameBollocks I think the game has enough flexibility to handle the randomness of the card draws. Besides, claiming cards as soon as they're drawn is risky just because of how expensive they are, lack of money can be a serious issue in the game. For every round, the longer the cards are known to everyone while becoming cheaper and more accessible. I think that balances out the luck of the draw alright.
If you took away the double scoring someone could win early and the last round would be pointless. It’s therefore there as a catch up noting more. Other games have this and it’s rubbish in them too. This game has a cult following and people just don’t want to admit that their beloved game is flawed. Then again, if it brings you joy keep playing and disregard everything I say. Im just some bloke with a camera and a big gob after all.
@@BoardGameBollocksIt was an entertaining review, and your opinion will likely be true for a lot of people. Pax Pamir is a fairly niche game even within the hobby. It does end early from outscoring your opponents though. All you need is the leading player to have 4 more points than the next highest scoring player and the game ends. Catch-up mechanisms aren't for everyone. It's a valid criticism, and people should be aware it's part of the game before deciding to purchase. If your group regularly had last place players stealing victory from runaway leaders, then I can understand that frustration. I enjoy the game. It's certainly not a "beloved" game. But, I've rarely seen the catch-up mechanism make a difference in who wins. Players can manipulate the board to change the scoring. A 6 point max turn is less swingy than a 10 point max turn.
Игры
I looked at this game so many times at the game store and never picked it up due to the high price point. This straight forward review just convinced me that this isn’t something we would enjoy at all. Love your direct style man without all the bullshit hype. Thanks for saving me money and keep up the great content!
Love your channel too. Glad you fought back against the shit 👍🏻
@BoardGameBollocks well said! Can't believe how political and toxic our hobby can be, when it is entirely aimed surely at bringing people together in innocent fun
They have great taste 👍🏻
@Dr. D There are very few we watch anymore. Most refuse to just keep it about the games.
I’ve unsubscribed from the majority of boardgame channels as they’re either just marketing vehicles or they do it for cash/free games…tbh they never really spoke to me anyway…so I set up my own.
The hobby is bigger than a handful of paid up influencers.
Pax Pamir 2nd Edition is my favourite game, but your challenges with the gameplay are spot on. Great review!
Great review, although I disagree with it. I think that maybe the biggest blunder that people make is to come with expectations of a heavy euro game. This is a war game, although a bit unconventional one (like the whole Pax series). If you build a strong stronghold via tribes, you can easily spawn an army and change allegiances if people conspire against you, which also prevents kingmaking (you can basically switch sides to become them) and at the same time you have a lot of cillinders which means that no-one will easily be able to pull the victory in the last dominance check. Also, you can win before last dominance check (which occurs more often than not).
The whole beauty of Pax series games (e.g. Pax Porfiriana as well) reveal itself only after at least dozen games when you have internalized all possible options and ways to do things. Especially when all people are at the same level. Trust me, you would rarely be surprised in the last turns and no one could snatch victory being last by pure luck and positioning. But it does take time and practice. Same goes for Root and especially for Oath which is truly a tug-of-war social contract war game at it's finest.
Thoughts on oath? I watched a playthrough by the create and it seemed interesting but like it might suffer from kingmaking. Also wasn't super clear on how strong/well the generational/legacy elements were.
Didn’t like Root or Pax Pamir so prob a no
@@CWunderA Oath is my top 3 games of all time, one of a few tens that I gave (other being 1846, Kanban EV, Madeira and Go/Baduk). Oath is an event game, where you have many elements from Root and Pax Pamir, but this game force you even more to negotiate and the storytelling here is more between players than forced through some legacy/video game like content and forced upon you.
I really respect Cole, I like his analytical stance on board games, he is war gamer at heart but every game he plays he finds a couple of ways to improve them and I find that inspiring. Also, I can see that he was very much into Archipelago because a lot of his topological and semi-coop part of Oath is, as far as I'm concerned, directly inspired by Archipelago, which I love.
So, I'm pretty much biased but you also need a serious gaming group.
Fair play, it's not for everyone. But I think it achieves what it sets out to do very well. It's much more about seizing opportunities and pressing advantages than working steadily towards a goal. It does require one to be in a particularly resilient mood, because a sense of fairness just isn't one of the design goals. If I'm up for applauding the clever move that just viciously kneecapped me, this is the game I reach for. This was my first Pax, and I'd happily try some of the others.
I strongly disagree with this review but credit where credit is due. The majority of board game channels are far too soft on games to the point of being slightly dishonest. This is perhaps due to the fact that many of them are getting funded by the publishers to review it! I appreciate your straightforward critique and honest negative comments.
Interesting review, as your reviews always tend to be. This review stood out though as you obviously hated the game but showed the utmost respect for the designer and the effort he’s put into the game. The most refreshingly honest , and funny, board game reviewer on RUclips? I’d say so. Hands down.
Cheers mate 👍🏻
Just discovered your channel recently, really great reviews, has really given me a clear idea on a few games I might have bought and I think youve saved me a bit of money! Anyways really appreciate the opinions, the content and all the work that must go into it, big thank you
Cheers geezer 👍🏻
I like PP a lot but it's definitely not for everyone, or even many people! Lots of more accessible games that the majority of gamers will enjoy more. It probably says a lot that as much as I like it I rarely choose to play it.
Maybe it’s not for everyone because it’s crap? Could be…
I disagree with this review pretty hard but still enjoy your point of view from it! Internalizing the rules for this one is tough but maybe I'm coming from it knowing that because all of Cole's designs can be a bit fidly but once you get it down it just opens up
This is one of my favourite channels but Pax Pamir is one of my favourite games. Im not sure what he’s on about with this one really 🤷♂️
I was just about to purchase this, I’ve heard great things from the Pax series.
Thank you for saving me the disappointment from a mostly blind purchase.
Subscriber earned.
This is in my top 10 of all time. I absolutely adore this game
That’s good. There’s a game for everyone out there.
I really like this game. Mainly because it is a pretty unique experience. Equally can understand your frustrations with it, though. You might want to give John Company second edition a miss!
Good advice
This review crystallized my concerns about this game. Money well saved - thanks!
I have First Edition which is a lot more bare bones in components.
I think that I agree with you on this one. I acknowledge the cleverness of the design but have failed to find the fun.
I usually tend to find your reviews helpful and agree with them, but I don't completely agree with this one.
I can see that the rules are a bit clunky and hard to remember. This is the kind of game enjoyed by people who don't mind sitting at the table with a player aid or rule book in their hands for most of the game.
Yes, some of the actions can result in a bit of push and pull, but from a player count of four, it is hard to decide and find out with which players you have to fight it out.
I saw that your recent videos tend to review lighter games and that's okay. If this game is not your cup of cocoa, fine.
However, people who like to play Root, COIN games and similar games, this game might be still interesting to them.
I’ve reviewed dozens of heavy games and to be honest this is t particularly heavy with just two actions to choose from. It just has some poor design decisions imho.
Solid review bud. Played this for the first time tonight. Definitely a lot of rules to think about so it is definitely baptism by fire for new players. The yellow blocks and cylinders was confusing af. Overall still really enjoyed it and would play again.
Well that's another one off the list of possibilities. From all the way at the back here it looks like you're wearing a golf jumper, any chance of a review on that as that's also on my list?
It’s an original Lambswool 1992 Pringle Faldo…
Thanks for the video and candid opinion
Would like it in your videos if you suggested a similar alternative game you would recommend from the current game you are referring to in your experience. Great vids, keep em coming!
Brilliant alternative is The King is Dead. Check it out.
@@nuuqbgganother one might be A War of Whispers.
@@paulhamrick3943 I'm unaware of that one. The king is dead have that mechanic of you not being any nation, but 'bet' on them and whoever have majority wins. (Much more than that). And that's the core mechanism of Pax Pamir. With a lot of, for me, unnecessary stuff added on it.
@@nuuqbgg A War of Whispers is the same but you don’t bet you are randomly assigned the factions that you have a stake in winning. But very similar.
I own The King is Dead as well as A War of Whispers but I have not had a chance to play The King is Dead yet. I’ve heard great things though.
@@paulhamrick3943 oh it's such an amazing game. A friend, after we played it, got Pamir as je loved the game but always want more and more stuff. We played Pamir twice and will never again. Played The King is dead 20ish times.
When I first saw your channel I was thinking, "Who is this over-the-top batshit geezer?" Well, it turns out that in a sea of paid promotion bullshit "reviewers," you're like one of the top 3 in the game. I don't always agree with your opinions or your abrasive style, but you're damn good and I appreciate your reviews. Thanks from some Yank!
Thanks for the kind words Some Yank 👍🏻
I love this review. You paid respect to the designer, they effort, the details....but then gave your honest view. I agree the rules are fiddly... its a game I really wanted to love because the mechanisms and look of the game are so unique, but its just a frustrating mess. Thanks, this was great. At least you know you'll get your money back for it.
I got back exactly what I paid for it which is nice. Thanks for your kind words. Comments like this are useful to me 👍🏻
Did you try the solo mode? I wonder how it feels... Actually I wanted to buy this game but after your review I hesitate... Some thoughts about the solo mode could help me to decide 🙏
No. I sold it.
@@BoardGameBollocks 😅 then there was probably not much hope left for the solo mode...
Dodged a bullet
I am not a solitaire player, but many who are seem to feel Wakhan is one of the best solo modes in recent years, and I know some who bought the game just for that mode. It was designed by Ricky Royal, who has quite a reputation designing solo modes. Again, as someone who isn't really a solitaire player, even I do enjoy playing against Wakhan from time to time.
The solo mode with Wakhan is highly regarded, but if you don't like the regular game you are not going to like the solo game. . For me Pax Pamir is a brilliant game solo or multiplayer, but it's definitely not to everyone's taste!
Appreciate the review. I love this game but the colours have always bothered me. I didn’t even notice the yellow / yellow thing. It was the grey / black that makes zero sense to me. I check in on Etsy from time to time to see if there are any upgrades / alternatives so I don’t have to use the default coloured tribes / wheels in the game
Nice to have some honest reviews as I thought it was a load of pony when I played it but agree about the artwork and effort put into the history . Shame really
I have never thought that Pax Pamir would attract heavy euro gamers. It's more like a wargame, right? Similar to COIN games.
My husband and I are good friends with Cole and have been for quite a while now. The two of them went through phases together and I tagged along since the two of us play nightly. Cole, early on, played a lot of Martin Wallace games with us. Byzantium, God’s Playground, Struggle of Empires. Then we all started playing war games/block war games for a while. Cole’s a history junkie, clearly lol, but we all thought Republic of Rome was incredible. I think he often strives for that kind of depth with some sort of euro style.
(He definitely got more into the coin games than either of us did!)
Also, I can’t speak to this version or the original and how it played. My husbands the rules reader and it was just too in-depth. And we play hefty games. 😉 I think our highest play counts are from the original Brass? He’s a smart guy and he made a great game but given the fact that this didn’t play two player, we saw it impossible to get to the table. (In other words, I don’t need to know game play to agree with boardgamebollocks, as I often do! 😉)
Both Brass games are amazing but I prefer the aesthetics of the original. Seems to fit the grim nature of the North of a England better.
@@BoardGameBollocks lol. Well the pieces certainly stand out better in the original. I don’t mind the cover art of the new one with, as I heard someone say the other day, the sad Brass man on the cover art, but the board just looks so dark. Plus, we have the special two player board and everything for the original, which I think has its charm about it too.
I respectfully disagree, but I still enjoyed the review!
About the color choices, I heard that Cole Wehrle always aims to be colorblind friendly with his designs so that might be one of the reasons for the strange color options.
Two similar shades of yellow surely makes everyone colourblind?
@@BoardGameBollocks Yeah, I personally don't like how similar they are, either.
jesus this game looks fascinating.
😬
Do you like any of the Pax games?
Only played this one
I wish you would say what you think instead of beating around the bush 😁
Great review, thanks!
😂
Looks complicated as shit mate. Thanks for the videos
If you don't like it when players do stuff and undo stuff back-and-forth, you would hate COIN games.
Got to love Cuba Libre!
Cards are interesting, didn't like the dominance checks and influence aspect
That’s why these kind of games tend to not sit well with “casual” gamers. “Casual” as in not playing a single game a dozen times when a single session takes 2+ hours. Heck, not even two or three times if the first session didn’t grab you. Fortunately, there are so many (good) games out there that even if you are not interested in putting that kind of investment into a single game you have plenty of options to choose from.
You’ve no idea how many times I played this though
@@BoardGameBollocks Point taken. How often did you play?
Enough to know we weren’t going to play it again.
@@BoardGameBollocks Right. And that is exactly how it should be. My post wasn’t meant to belittle your review by the way, which I think is very valid.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you do come across as someone with a low frustration tolerance when it comes to games that don’t ‘click’ with you rather quickly. Which is fine.
But maybe that’s just your RUclips persona.
Maybe read some Carl Jung for an insight on the inner workings of RUclips personas
i really did not get this game, even a dozen plays in. after playing online with experienced players, some cool tricks and plays were made that opened up the game for me. I still found it not worth the effort to get to the table and played, so i also recently got rid of my copy. an interesting game, but extremely hard to find the people willing to play it, so much so that i'd rather just not even bother trying.
Seemed like the theme and the mechanics were two different things in this
A friend brought his kickstarter copy over and before even playing, I was like... WHAT about this convinced you to pledge any amount of money lol?? I can't even give the artwork a nod, if for no reason other than the God awful photoshop job they did on the wheat field card (or corn or whatever it was). If you hadn't noticed and own this game, go look at it...
I sold it. No wheat field laughs for me 😥
Glad to hear your thoughts on Pax Pamir- I suspected you may have felt this way after dipping into your play through.
I’m still wondering whether to give it another go or not after one play with a human and some solo games.
🤯
My advice. Sell it and get a game you’ll love.
Like most Cole Wehrle games, you either need to play it a *lot* or not at all. You're only ever going to get value and fun out of this game (or his others) by playing them over and over again.
I’ve played this alot and it still sucks. No one could claim to like or dislike a game after one or two plays…that’s Rahdo territory.
@@BoardGameBollocks 😂 I just sold it
I've rarely seen a game as divisive as this one. I've played it with people that were genuinely mad after playing it, about how much they didn't like it. It definitely has some rules overhead, and it can be pretty difficult to figure out "how to win" on first plays. You have to be able to see certain things coming, like a game of chess. If the double score is going to make the person in last go to first, don't let them. Etc. Definitely not for everyone, and my copy hasn't been played in some time as a result. Personally, I want to try to dedicate the time and effort to learning and playing Pax Renaissance instead -- which is even harder, but much faster to play.
It’s completely random as to whether your able to allow the person in last to go first. Depends on the random draw and whether the cards you need are in the deck in the first place. A frustrating mess.
@@BoardGameBollocks There were no build or battle cards in the market or in other players' tableaus? The last place player was the only one with the opportunity to acquire cards from the market that placed blocks or had build cards in their tableau? No one was able to assassinate last place's tableau? No one was able switch to the last place's coalition?
Zzzzzzz….
Still crap mate
Butthurt because someone doesn’t like his $100 Kickstarter…if I had a £
So just as well I didn’t waste my petrol (and prob hub caps) driving the car down to Portsmouth then? Shame as it’s still my top game with Ra & Medici. Must put Cotton Club in the car boot then just in case I run out of petrol in your locality 😉.
Pompey resident only nick hub caps off decent cars mate…😂👍🏻
😂😂this guy is the best
The proverbial game of two halves. Didn't expect you to turn against it so hard. Will avoid this game.
Bullet dodged
Adaptation, momentum, politic and knowledge. If any of those concepts dont excite you, dont play oath or pax pamir.
King makin, take that are concepts creating stories. It is a good thing with the right group, it creates tension.
You dont need to like this kind of game 🙂
Incredible game, good points on the review. Just not a game for you
Seems like a nice game of Kemet would be preferable.
Now you’re talking 👍🏻
@@BoardGameBollocks Clearly a game with no take that and where nobody can counter your moves. ;-)
What?
Yeah Afghanistan, been there, done that.
I've been on the fence about getting this game, watching rules and even part of a playthrough didn't help. With this you've convinced me to steer clear for I'm generally bothered by the exact same things in boardgames as you. Thanks a lot.
👍🏻
Tell us how you really feel, haha 😂
11:32
For me this game js the epitome of a tactics rather than a strategy game. You have to be turned on the whole time, watching the board and the market for opportunities with any of the 3 factions, and be willing to switch at a beats notice. Its impossoble to plan ahead too far in advance, which can be frustrating, but also exhilirating if you make and pull off a good turn. Definitely not a laid back game.
Fantastic review. Nice to see Don Logan’s softer side.
You sexy beast you…
I agree entirely with your conclusion. I found Pax Pamir utterly baffling. It's theme is great but it never feels like the theme is what you're actually playing. Theme and mechanisms do not match. Power fluctuates far too randomly. It cost a fortune to buy and was a huge disappointment. Avoid.
It seems like the previous game had the theme and they lichens it to make a new game.
I’m wondering if Eklund did the heavy lifting in terms of the flavour text and the new bloke slapped the mechanics on it.
Can’t really say as I haven’t played the first one.
"Power fluctuates far too randomly" is exactly the theme, and the mechanics. Read some of the history. Or don't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How do you know what I have or haven't read? The theme was what caused me to pay out over 100 euros for the game in the first place. Personally I think 'The Great Game' is a better simulation.@@malexander4094
Hmm... I think I'll just piss off ...
I agree with basically everything you said. I played as yellow and I did almost accidentally count my piece as Russian. But most importantly, the rulebook could have been better. A lot of people who rate the game 10 said the rulebook was way improved - which means they must have suffered something horrendous for first edition.
Never even heard of it. Now I know I don’t want it. Was looking promising for a while.
Bullet dodged
Bloody oath. Thanks Mate.
Score more earlier.
Sage like 🙄
Wow am I glad I never bothered with this. Pretty components aside, none of this sounds remotely fun to me. Just a whole bunch of bullshit all the way along.
Thanks for saving me many a quid!
My group hated it more than me which is quite astonishing.
It’s up there with Dominant Species for reviled games. Quite an accolade.
It's impossible to mistake cylinders of any color for Russian ones - because the 3 factions don't have ANY cylinders.
Sure, at first glance, never having played the game, I can see how somebody might assume that the pieces might belong together. But as soon as you halfway understand how the game works there's really no room to think that a cylinder belongs to any of the 3 factions - because the factions use only blocks on the board.
I don't think the color choices are perfect, but the gray and black player colors are the bigger problem.
The first 3 dominance checks are NOT meaningless. Mostly because any of them can end the game and then the doubling of the 4th will never happen. But also because you don't have to let the player in the last place get all the points during the last dominance check. But it is a good way to keep players engaged in the game and the leading players on their toes. Plus many modern boardgames emphasize escalating endgame points for exactly these reasons (the whole Eric Lang trilogy for example). Otherwise players who didn't score during the first couple of checks would hopelessly go through the motions during the second half of the game where they can't keep up anymore.
Also, the argument that everything one does immediately gets cancelled by an opposing action is kinda ridiculous. If player A directly counters every action player B does, then player A doesn't get anything done for him-/herself either. And if this is not just a 2 player game then player C (and possibly D end E) will happily exploit this.
The fact that a spy can be countered by overflowing the court is not a problem at all. You presumably put a spy there because the card was worrisome - if removed by court overflow the opponent saved you an action and 2 rupies because you didn't even have to play a betray action. Great.
Nobody needs to "remember" that the military suit doubles card market prices - it's printed right there on the "board" next to the suit icon.
You didn't like the game - that's fine. It's not going to be great for everybody. But these arguments didn't make much sense.
You just be stupid then…just saying
Can't believe all the people coming out of their caves to defend this game. Blows my mind that all the heavy euros lovers defend this game, but then complain about ameri-thrash games. PP has the most random, bs plays I've ever seen. It's borderline similar to just rolling 2 dice and XZ=AB in terms of randomness.
skill issue.
?
I disagree that the double scoring on the dominance check ruins the game, it just rewards long-term strategies. I understand your gripes with the randomness, though.
Not sure how you can reward long term strategies with a random card draw but hey ho
@@BoardGameBollocks I think the game has enough flexibility to handle the randomness of the card draws. Besides, claiming cards as soon as they're drawn is risky just because of how expensive they are, lack of money can be a serious issue in the game.
For every round, the longer the cards are known to everyone while becoming cheaper and more accessible. I think that balances out the luck of the draw alright.
If you took away the double scoring someone could win early and the last round would be pointless. It’s therefore there as a catch up noting more. Other games have this and it’s rubbish in them too.
This game has a cult following and people just don’t want to admit that their beloved game is flawed.
Then again, if it brings you joy keep playing and disregard everything I say. Im just some bloke with a camera and a big gob after all.
@@BoardGameBollocksIt was an entertaining review, and your opinion will likely be true for a lot of people. Pax Pamir is a fairly niche game even within the hobby.
It does end early from outscoring your opponents though. All you need is the leading player to have 4 more points than the next highest scoring player and the game ends.
Catch-up mechanisms aren't for everyone. It's a valid criticism, and people should be aware it's part of the game before deciding to purchase. If your group regularly had last place players stealing victory from runaway leaders, then I can understand that frustration.
I enjoy the game. It's certainly not a "beloved" game. But, I've rarely seen the catch-up mechanism make a difference in who wins. Players can manipulate the board to change the scoring. A 6 point max turn is less swingy than a 10 point max turn.