How to Fix an Open Neutral Receptacle When the Problem is Upstream in the Circuit
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2020
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2 years. TWO YEARS!! Electricians telling me it's the bathroom light and fan. Took 3 hours to test, retest, rewire and nothing (except I have a timer now on the bathroom fan). Drove me crazy since the bathroom fan and light worked but there were 2 outlets barely pulling anything.
Finally, like GOD just said "alright, we've tortured her enough" I come across this video. I decide at 3am to check and sure enough, the outlet right next to my head every night had a neutral just hanging out in the back.
Thank you Sir. Thank you so much.
Great job! Thanks so much and you write very well!
Very good video. But im afraid you forgot to add in the part where you have to move the double bunk bed out of the way first...
LOL! Thanks!
I am a new home owner. I will use the information from this very detailed video to check for electrical issues. The two outdoor receptacals are not working. I appreciate you taking the time to mkae this video and share with us. Angel from The Bay
It is also very important to show that an open neutral wire could be loaded with electricity.
That is a danger for electrical shock for whoever assume that neutral wire carries no electricity.
For example in the trouble outlet with a light plugged in, show that HOT-NEUTRAL measures 0V instead of 120V, NEUTRAL to GND shows 120V instead of 0V.
A very cardinal comment
Person with extremely novice understanding of electricity here but would the non-contact detector be able to detect the power on a hot neutral to Gnd?
@@Axs208 Yes, a non-contact detector will detect high voltage on a hot neutral.
The ONLY video on this subject that is clear, direct, procedural and smart. THANK YOU.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks so much!
Great video Bill! You give me the confidence to do this on my own!Plus your tools have been so helpful!
Great to hear! Thanks!
Very clearly explained. Very easy to understand. Even an non electrician will understand this. Great work 👏
Thanks!
Thanks Sparky! Fixed!
Excellent, simple format and very informative. Will try tomorrow on my external GFCI that is in same situation as presented here. Circuit breaker fine, GFCI test/reset button inop, have a hot white on line side. Will go through a back check in downstream outlets. Thanks Bill!
Martin Parish I'm having the same issue as you. No changes have been made since the problem started. What did you find?
FYI- When the GFCI receptacles fail, they just stop working. There are some fancy ones that have a light that tells you when inoperable. To test this, you could shut that breaker off and replace it with a new one or another GFCI from somewhere in the house (safely removed). The GFCIs have a life span of about 5 years depending on wet location, number of times it has tripped, etc. Mine have lasted over 20 years, but that’s not the norm. Let us know how it turns out.
Thank you i love how you made my visual mind work.. no notes require for this class +A
You're very welcome! Thanks Patricia!
Very helpful indeed, and especially in the recognition that the Open Wire might not be in the outlet which is not working!
Thanks!
Thank you very much sir! I learned something new today and put it to use right away.
Bill,
A fantastic video. I knew next to nothing about rewiring outlets, but had 5 open neutral outlets, three inoperative outlets, and only 1 good one. This was the first video I could find that explained AND demonstrated the daisy chain. Thanks to that, I found out the issue was with my only good power outlet; a few minutes later, my living room is 100%. Thank you so much!
Great job!
I checked like you said, I backtrack and I found where the issue was. I took the wires apart, found that some of them were burnt as I stripped them put them together and Wala. No more unconnected neutral. Thank you for your video I appreciate it. I feel good about getting it done myself. Thank you again.
Nice video. Thank you for continuing to make informative educational videos for those of us who are not self proclaimed electrical gurus.
Thanks so much John!
Great video man! Literally the exact problem that I faced! The upstream debug was superb!
Glad it helped! Thanks!
same problem for me, but I had to go back up the line a bit to find the "missing link", so to speak.
Thanks for the detailed video. Could you do another video on how to know how to find what outlets are Upstream? Thank you
Thanks for sharing your expertise! The knowledge gained allowed me to troubleshoot and resolve the issue with my receptacle.
You're welcome!
Thanks for the clear concise video. It helped me troubleshoot an open neutral issue. Sure enough, there was a loose neutral in a box down the line.
Nice work!
Thanks! Clear explanation and demo helped me work out a head-scratcher!
Great to hear!
I new nothing about replacing A GFI outlet .
But watching your vid I definitely learned something new , you explained it thoroughly that even A rookie like me learned .
Even though I replaced A GFI when it kept on tripping you taught me what to look for and how to fix .
I was ready to call an electrician till i seen you tutorial , Thank You !
Great to hear, thanks!
GOOD JOB SPARKY. WELL DONE.
Thanks Josian!
Great video, thank you.
Hello Bill. this was very helpful. I will suggest that you use this setup to walk through the different scenarios that might be occurring: open neutral, open ground, mixed hot wires, etc.
Thanks!
Thank you. Well done.
Great video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated!!
My pleasure! Thanks!
Outlet Tester , tell, show and teach was excellent portion of this excellent presentation.
Glad you liked it!
I always learn the proper way to do diagnostics watching your videos which save time and take the guess work out.
Good to hear!
This completely solved my problem, thank you very much
Great explanation "Sparky"! I am a realtor and will be sharing with Buyer's and Seller's when needed.
Awesome, thank you!
Those lever wire connectors are the bomb. I always worried about the twist connectors failing when you tucked the wires back into the hole. Great video!
Thanks Richard!
How much are
They ?
They only fail if you don’t use them right.
These fail way more then a wire nut …way more! This is the equivalent of back stabbing a plug
@@pulkpuller I’ve been using the Wago lever connectors for years and never had a problem. There are cheaply made Chinese knockoffs that are crap. Conversely, I’ve seen countless wire nuts that were not put on properly and caused problems.
Very impressive video as well as your electrical testers sir.
Thank you very much!
Thanks for the video, this helped me fix an open neutral GFI in my kitchen!
Excellent!
Excellent video. Well thought out. Organized. Good teaching. Thank you LOADS
My pleasure.
THANK YOU! This is how all DIY videos should be done 👏 I had an Open Neutral on an outlet on a circuit that was confounding me, and your straightforward video led me to the upstream GFCI outlet that was faulty and now I’m back up and running 👍
Great to hear, thanks!
Thank you, sir! You saved me from having to call an electrician. The neutral in the adjacent box had come out of the wire nut. Many thanks for uploading this video!
Glad it helped! Was the wire nut too small? That happens a lot.
Fun little troubleshooting vid Wild Bill ... Like that Fluke 117 meter as well ...
Thanks Eddy! Yes, I love my 117!
Really great. Learned exactly how to troubleshoot the issue I have.
Excellent!
@Sparky your videos are great. You speak clearly and very well and obviously know this subject like an expert. Thanks for sharing in your knowledge because between you and another electrician that I paid $150 to fix a 4 toggle circuit with 2 light fixtures, obviously including 3-way and 4-way toggles I have learned an awful lot.
What do I do when the Fluke Voltage Detector still lights up but does not make any chirping sounds?
My other question is do you have any videos on how to determine which outlet is upstream from all of the others to target as the prime candidate for replacement with a GFCI/AFCI?
Finally, do I require a GFCI/AFCI breaker in order to put a GFCI/AFCI receptacle on that string of devices on the same circuit?
Thank you.
The Fluke tester I have will disable the beep (if it annoys) by keeping the on button pressed down for a few seconds when you first power up the tester. As for finding the first receptacle upstream, it is ‘usually the closest to the breaker box, but to really determine which one is closest, you need to open the suspect receptacle (after flipping breaker off) and disconnect the wires so nothing would go downstream and then check to see no power on the rest of the receptacles after power is back on. Can be a little hit or miss process. Add your GFCI to the upstream receptacle and then use the internal test to see if it kills all the receptacles. Regarding needing a GFCI breaker on that circuit, the answer is no.
Super helpful, thank you!
You're welcome!
Wow ! Yes very helpful. Thanks for well explained video and links
My pleasure, thanks!
Excellent videos on the misleading hot/ground problem. I found two duplex receptacle with hot/ground on the tester, and disconnected everything in the other receptacles but the first two didn't change to open neutral. There are two ceiling lights on the circuit that have both stopped working. Would an open neutral in a circuit branch with lights and switches (no outlets) always show hot/ground reverse because the load is always connected?
it was very helpful. Thanks for great explanation . Cheers
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for just sharing your knowledge like that. I did a workshop ( Metal bldg) and passed inspection, but never thought to wrap the receptacles in electrical tape. Now here is my question, will open neutral cause a situation like what I am having. In kitchen I fire up the electric kettle and the fridge seems to be running louder. I suspect that the fridge and kettle become series and not parallel so more amps is getting driven through the fridge by the kettle's amperage draw. Could kettle be faulty and leaking power to ground and causing that ( doubt it)? Thanks
Exactly my issue, thank you so much. Felt like my dad was teaching me a life lesson lol
Happy to help!
Great video!!! - Question about the tape. I have read many times that there is no need for tape, that tape will increase the temp and may induce a fire - What is the common practice on applying tape to outlets? and what the code say? - Thanks again! good tips
so simple, thanks
Not sure if you know but @SanPar has this video posted as well. Great video clear and concise! 👍🏻
Thanks!
Nice video! Informative and east to follow
Glad you liked it!
Great work.
Thank you! Cheers!
Good video
Great info thank you so much
Thanks Angel!
Thank you for this video. I was able to fix this in my bathroom.
Excellent, way to go!
Very helpful!Thank u🙏🏻
You're welcome 😊
The problem in My Camper was All the outlets in the Living Room area Quite working. I removed the outlet closest to the Converter Box and test the Outlet. Only got a reading of 85. So I made A Tester because nobody loaned me any tools 🤣. I Put a 4 Foot piece of 14/2 on the New 15 Amp outlet and Ran it straight to the Breaker and Converter Box and I got The Correct Reading of 123. I went back to the Hardware Store and Purchased 16 Feet of 14/2 Romex. I installed the New Outlet in a Different Location and now I have Electric again for My phone and Mica Heater. Praise The Lord 🙏
Great work
Thanks Dave!
@Sparky Channel. Thanks Bill for making this troubleshooting video.
Question: How would you safely test for continuity when your upstream outlet is more than the length of your multimeter's test leads?
Hope you and your family stay safe and well.
I use my Extech CT20 Remote and Local Continuity Tester: amzn.to/36dwKzu
In fact, I should do a video on that. It's small, lightweight and works like a charm! You guys stay safe as well!
I know you didn’t ask me but what about just grabbing any old length of wire from the van, and using it as a lead extension on the end of a meter lead
At one end (with the power off) touch the hot and netral together and use your leads to determine continuity on that other end between the hot and neutral. You can also check between hot and ground and neutral and ground. This is the more practical way since outlets are rarely ever right next to each other like this. If you get continuity between hot and ground from one end but not hot and neutal or ground and neutral you can determine the neutral was lost somewhere between. Then comes the fun task of figuring out what happened and how to fix it (especially if the break happened inside the wall somewhere.
Thanks Bill this was helpful. Can you help me with a question? I want to add an outlet to my garage that will provide 3600 watts (2880 continuous) for tools, that is GFCI protected. Can you outline how this would be done? I know I could add two GFCI outlets side-by-side, and run two 12/2 wires from each outlet to their own 15a or 20a breakers, but is there a better way to do it? Thanks!
Thanks 🙏
You’re welcome 😊
That's why that type of connection isn't a reliable connection, it's quicker but I've found out that a good old wirenut is still the best connection, further more the stab lock recepticals, I find will loosen after a period of time and will cause a loose connection on the hot conductor. The screw terminals in my opinion still make the best connection. Nice video, like the trouble shooting senario.
Thanks Michael!
Hi,
Thanks for your video. I was able to troubleshoot 5 outlets that were not working as well as a closet light that was on the same circuit. I used the outlet tester and was getting an open neutral. When I opened the outlet there was a small piece of live wire that broke off and the wire was required into the screw holder. I can only assume that the extra piece of wire was interfering and shorting out that wall.
Thanks again.
Great job!
Please continue
Great video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks!
Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I replaced a switch powering a chandelier. Turned it on and off a couple of times and it worked fine. Half an hour later the light came on by itself and I cannot turn it off. Replaced switch and same thing is happening. Help!!!
This showed me where my problem was, thanks
Excellent!
Thank you Brother...tyJ☝️
Very welcome!
The circuit tester reports Hot on Neutral with Hot Open on the same outlet reading 70VAC. The outlet failing is a ground fault outlet and has not tripped. The black wire is hot at 70VAC. The same reading of 70VAC is shown if I measure between the black and white (neutral) wire when the outlet is removed. This is a single phase 120v 60Hz residential outlet.
Good video Sparky'
Thanks so much Gary!
So I'm trying to fix an open neutral GFI circuit right now. To narrow
down what outlets were involved on this circuit, I shut off the breaker
for that circuit, and used an outlet tester to find all "off" outlets in
the house. I've narrowed it down to a GFI outlet in upstairs bath, and
2 standard outlets in the downstairs bath. I believe the upstairs GFI
outlet is the one closest to the panel box, and the 2 others come off of
that. I check all wire connections, nothing disconnected or loose. I
even replaced the GFI outlet and the 2 standard subsequent ones. The
two standard outlets still show as open neutral on the tester and aren't
working. The only thing I haven't changed out is the circuit breaker
in the panel box (I have to go get a replacement one). If all of these
changes don't resolve it, what is left? Seems unlikely that the wiring
in the wall could be an issue, these things are usually an issue at an
end point. Any suggestions on what else to try? I'm about out of
ideas....
Very helpful I have an open neutral reading I'm about to tackle I'll let you know what happens thank you
Good luck!
Extremely helpful, saved me from having to call an electrician. Thank you!
Great to hear!
Just wondering if you can answer a question I have two outlets in one box and when I wire one Outlet by itself it works fine but when I wire in both Outlets I'm showing an open neutral?
You can also after breakers of ohm out outlets
Nice simulation
Thanks!
Thank you Mr. Sparky!! You explain everything so well that even a 66 yr old woman can fix electrical issues. You save everyone a lot of money with you great videos.
Thanks so much!
Oh my Goodness! How misogynistic can you be?
What if only one outlet is failing? There are no other electrical issues found in this home. The outlet failing is a ground fault outlet and has not tripped. The black wire is hot at 70VAC. The same reading of 70VAC is shown if I measure between the black and white (neutral) wire when the outlet is removed. This is a single phase 120v 60Hz residential outlet.
I have the very same issue with bathroom outlet. Its the only one that does not work. I don't know what the hell to do.!. He didn't seem to answer you ! Did you resolve it and how ? Thank You !
Sparky channels for the win!
Woohoo! Thanks!
My neutral has 40v to ground, my hot wire has 50v hot to ground, but hot to neutral is 120v does this mean i have an open neutral backfeeding somewhere?
I have a question please... If the primary function of a neutral is returning the electricity to the panel then why don't you get shocked from it when you touch it? I keep hearing this saying that the neutral returns electricity to the panel but how can that be if it does not shock you? Thanks!
Is it correct to say the neutral job is carrying the current back to the panel BUT that current is not energized and that's why you don't get shocked by a neutral (unless its a short circuit)?
Ok randomly 5 of my 10 outlets randomly stopped working (at the end of the run) so I tested the line and the 5 indicated "hot & ground reversed" the 1st 5 indicated "correct wiring" so I opened the last 5 checked and tightened everything (not that any were loose, only 1 neutral got a slightly turn) turned on the breaker and now it reads "open neutral " so as per your video I went to the next outlet back that indicates "correct wiring" and all the wires are proper and tight? What am I missing here ?
I don't like the rear stab method for residential receptacles. I have had too many issues with this method. For commercial receptacles that are higher grade it seems to work fine. For the little extra time it take to wrap the wire around the terminal screw it is worth it for less problems.
Technically that is called the grounded conductor. The neutral is the wire that carries the unbalanced load. Other than that, great job 👏
How do you determine the next outlet in line?
Great video but the end of run receptacle should have been tested (after the repair) before putting everything back together.
You should have like there’s a rule saying that somewhere. It maybe good practice but is not absolute.
Can you make a video of fixing a hot on neutral with hot open socket
If a light switch is wired wrong can it cause the outlets in the room not to work ?
Great video. My problem is that I have a circuit with seven or more outlets in a series and narrowing down the problem is a b!tch.
Nice
Thanks!
Hi Sparky Thanks for your educational videos. I'm wondering, what would happen if I peed directly into an outlet with a hot wire and an open neutral? Other than the smell (I don't mind as I have burnt out olfactory senses), would I be in danger of the spark jumping from the copper wires over to my pee-hole? Definitely wouldn't want that to happen! Thanks for any insight you might offer. Wanting to try this soon, but wanting a fuller understanding of the physics before I attempt it.
Depends on if your body is grounded I guess. If you’re wearing shoes then you might feel a little tingle as the capacitive properties of the human body will accept some charge. If you have your hand on a bonded metal fixture though, or your feet making good contact with a conductive ground, you die. Probably not a good idea and I take no responsibility lmao
What an Idiot!
@@MrFitness94 Ok, that does make some sense. I'm just wondering though, how exactly would I know the difference between the normal "tingle" I feel when peeing first thing in the morning, and the tingle that might come if my body is acting as a capacitor? 🤔
@@danserrano2251 idk Dan, I thought MrFitness explanation made pretty good sense, although like most valid scientific hypotheses it did leave me more questions than answers. 🤔
@@Rick-the-Swift Mamon
Thanks for this post! Helped me understand what was going on and made for an easy fix. (Those who stab wires in the back of outlets should be stabbed in the back with the same wires.)
Thanks Paul!
I've hunted for hours trying to find an open neutral! Hard to charge someone for that!
I understand!
You either charge your normal hourly or like me you have a flat rate for troubleshooting. If it take 30mins or 3 hours same charge. Not that difficult
Yeah the problem i had when i was hunting was that my plug tester kept in saying hot ground reverse. which i knew was not right. Ended up finding it behind the bunk bed i didn't really want to move. So im convinced that because i didnt want to move it thats where the open was going to be...
That's where toners and skill comes to play
@@skunkbri I don't know if his tracer can use any wires for tone. I used to have an old BG that was great because it would only send signal upstream. (if I plugged it between the panel and the end of the run, it would only have tone going towards the panel) but it had to have a neutral connection to work. made a plug to jumper the neutral to the ground, and I could plug both in, and trace the circuit path.
New to electronics and wiring... so "neutral" is really somewhat of a misnomer? As in, if you "insert" yourself anywhere in the circuit and complete it, you're going to get a shock?
I don't have a whatsapp line but you can comment here.
Puzzled as to why the outlet to the left tested normal as it had an open neutral?
It tested/worked fine because the upstream neutral and hot were attached properly to it. The problem was that the neutral going from that box was ‘not’ connected to anything. So, Bill just connected the loose neutral to the pigtail that existed from the incoming neutral.
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Bro sounds like Scotty Kilmer! Lol. REV YOUR ENGINES!! ❤
Rev your receptacles!
Are wago wire connectors safe.
Yes.
What is the cause of half my outlets having an open hot
Can you demonstrate a continuity check in a real-life situation?
Really appreciate your content!
Yes, I do that in many of my videos such as: How To Fix a 3-Way Switch System: ruclips.net/video/EGyXhV0p-4w/видео.html
@@SparkyChannel Much thanks!
I love when the outlets are so close that you can verify continuity which is .....never
ok what if you dont know what outlet is next in line?