Except you're forgetting one thing. Even though for a ratio of 100% ration of apples for 100 bits, they are using 600% ration, over SIX TIMES the apples, for only 125% of bits. Considering that with the apples they had on stock they could make a profit of 600 bits with the same amount of stock instead of 125 bits, over 4X the amount over a longer period of time ( assuming they have a limited amount of apples and are efficient enough to not throw away an enormous amount of apples) Remember, the Apples sell other products too, so it's not like cider is their only profit. Think materials for a while, and you can see why it would still be a bad deal (and hence Granny saying she would lose the farm)
I think it would've been much better if the two episodes were swapped. We introduce the brothers as con-men in Leap of Faith so when it came to the Super Squeezy episode the 'first appearance' would have been a good excuse for the Apples to refuse to strike a deal.
So yea by their first episode they were good business men in the long run and could of made at least a profitable amount for the apple family to get through the winter. But in their second appearance they were just con-men and wanted to make a living since they can't sell cider anymore because of their reputation for making bad cider. They aren't villains, they're just antagonists.
You do realize that cider isn't thin only thing produced on Sweet Apple Acres, right? That farm provides just about ALL of the apple based products for the Ponyville area, not to mention a few others things like corm, celery, beans, and probably wheat. They are the only farm there after all. Also, in order to run all that land that makes up the orchard, roughly 75% or more (mostly likely more) goes into tending the land. As in, buying new equipment, baking supplies, firewood, not to mention daily provisions for their own family. Flim and Flam what to use the majority of the farm produce for cider, a product that has its own season for selling. Their little 75/25 split would have made it impossible for the Apple Family to take care of their land, making it easier for the brothers to slowly buy them out. Also, they intentionally antagonized Granny because they knew they wouldn't get a deal out of her any other way. Granted, they may not be bad enough from being true villains in the traditional sense, but they are far from being good guys.
new collector film and flam never said they want to change the farm to all apples, they just wanted to use the already existing trees to make the cider, meaning like CC said in the video there profits would go up because they'd be making more and selling more than they were before. Other than that nothing else on the farm would change, at the very least that partner ship would've evened out and they would've made nothing extra but served a lot more people, and at the most would've severely increased their profits.
Flim and Flam may have been able to make cider faster, but consider this: It still takes a long time for apples to grow. Even if there were apples growing and ripening all year except winter (which appears to be the case in equestria) the apple family wouldn't be able to grow enough apples fast enough to keep up with the machine's output. Soon they'd run out of apples, so maybe there were simply not enough apples for that 600 glasses you were talking about. What if the maximum output they could have achieved was only two hundred glasses? Maybe there really wouldn't have been enough money left over after flim and flam's cut for the farm to get through the winter.Personally I don't think the split was fair. The apple family worked a LOT harder to grow the apples than the brothers did to run the machine. The value of the labor is a factor. Plus Flim and Flam are supposed to be business ponies. A business man/woman should always be prepared for someone to refuse the first offer. I would have felt like they were better people if they'd made a second offer with a sweeter deal. Even if the second offer still wasn't very good, like a 30/70 split, an attempt at negotiation would have made them look more reasonable.
FlimFlam- noun 1. a trick or deception especially a swindle or confidence game involving skillful persuasion or clever manipulation of the victim 2. a piece of nonsense; twaddle; bosh verb 3. to trick, deceive, swindle, or cheat.
On paper 75% / 25% with the greater going to Flim and Flam sounds like not much left over for the Apples, and since Applebuck Season already hints that Applejack isn't very quick with the math I can buy her not figuring out it was still a profit in her corner. Also bear in mind that while they might have been making 6 barrels to the Apple's one barrel we didn't know that until the next day, so we had no way of knowing what the profits would be at the time. All we had to go on was a single barrel and a figure that sounded like it wouldn't give much to the Apples. Honestly, I think the Apples should have negotiated for a more proper sounding 50-50 and at least easily talked them down to a reasonable 60-40 since the machine was doing most of the work, but the brothers do need to realize that their machine is useless without the apples, and growing apples takes a lot of time and care.
Due to the framing, Flim and Flam are antagonists, specifically for AJ. They have an objective, and AJ has an objective. These two objectives are mutually incompatible, and since AJ is our defined protagonist, Flim and Flam take the empty spot. They're not evil. Cough cough their magic has the same color as changeling magic cough cough they're infiltrators cough cough
Um....do you need some cough medicine?I am half medic (btw gonna change my youtube name soon) my mom showed me how my dad kinda just changed most of the things
***** I watch an extremely girly and discontinued show called Tokyo Mew Mew and the main antagonists for the first like what? 40 EPISODES aren't actuall;y evil-they see our protagonists the same way the protagonists see them. AND NO ONE EXCEPT LETTUCE WANTS PEACE HUH?! *Ehem* back on topic, There was only one villain sooooooooooooooooooo why do people jump to the fact that an antagonist is always evil? you tell me ;)
Sky Fire It's a common misunderstanding, especially since there are a lot of antagonists that ARE evil, like Voldemort, or that one guy in my Social Studies class. One of the questions one of the reading responses *shudder* I had to do in the seventh grade was "Is the antagonist likable?" and, to be fair, that's a good question. Admittedly, my answer for that was always "No" as most of the books I read have evil antagonists, like Harry Potter, and the Newsflesh Trilogy.
Great video! I always though of flim flam like this, love the fact that in a show with chimeras and hydras there can be some entertaining antagonists for a change. Ps:... Poor Any XD
while I agree with this examination on flim and flam, I think if something were to give them just enough nudge to the wrong direction, the two of them can become villains. With the recent episode of them in 'leap of faith' I would say they were close to being villains seeing as they first started off as making real products of what they sell and ended up making fake products that if something were to be wrong could end up harming the ponies buying them. Seeing as Trixie went as far as to grabbing a magical amulet that corrupts her the longer she wears it all because she was driven out of town for faking about being a powerful unicorn. I'm sorta seeing them drifting to the evil alignment. Very slowly, but a simple nudge can be a powerful shove.
Oh for sure. The brothers aren't villains yet, but they can be. They can go in EITHER direction at this point, all it would take is the right incentive. And, once there, they can just as easily slide back to the other. Flim and Flam are really soilders of fortune. They use their talents to go where the gold is. That's all they care about. So they can BECOME villains, but they're not there yet.
SasukeX53 I think they might have learned their lesson ^^' And if not, continue the way they are, they will. See, if their products don't match up to what they claim, they will end up loosing money, and because of their greed, that's a big no. They made a fake product, yes, but I think that once they saw how it could've ended badly and they tried to cover it up but failed, they started to realize they would be loosing money. Thus they left partially to go earn money elsewhere and partially because they wanted to leave before an angry mob of a sort comes after them. Just my two cents though ^^'
Thank you. Assuming the good Doctor gets his channel back, I would love to do something of the sort. I am on the list for his "A Moment with Dr Wolf" series, but so are quite a few others, so it will be some time before that video is made, let alone released. All we can do is wait and see!
cannedcream You should do something like maybe you were fighting, and it's like battle scars, as a suggestion. I was wondering the same thing. I think once you figure it out you should make a video on your OC explaining the different parts of it. I'm sure plenty of people are curious about the notches in your ears as I was.
Finally! Somepony with the same thoughts for the Flim flam brothers! For me being a fan of the brothers I find them misunderstood and were taken competitive in the first time they appeared but they screwed up when they put they're machine into full power, they won for most battles of cider made but lost to bad taste. And in Leap of faith I don't think they were fooling the ponies for money, I think they were trying to give those ponies hope that they can be cured. But what's been on my mind about the tonic is that I think it DID work. Before Granny smith knew about the tonic she wasn't able or feared to swim that she showed in the start of the episode, but then after she finds out about the tonic and drinks it she is able to swim and isn't afraid of swimming. And if the tonic doesn't work, how was Granny able to swim again? It's what's been in my mind for while but it's kinda of off topic. But I got to say I believe that the Flim Flam brothers have one last chance to make things right and more understandable, IF we see them in season 5 (Sorry for this being a long comment I just need to let it go ^^")
Well according to the Cutie Re-Mark they are villains :3 At first they just seem like random ponies who wanna make some quick cash. But as shown in said episode, the 6th dystopian future shows them in charge of Sweet Apples Acre's and them turning the Everfree Forest into industrial complexes. So they're kinda evil i guess? IDK really. I don't really think of them as villains
What I like about Flim and Flam is that they are correct, if only others are willing to look at it from a different point of view. And what's wrong with being a-holes? XD
Hey you should do a video on why princes are normal unicorns,pegisi,and earth ponies but princesses are alicorns... Just a thought... I was really confused when the first non alicorn royal went on screen so would you mind clearing things up for me? That would be great!
MIND THEFT! MIND THEFT! I wanted to do this video! And now you come along, used the two weeks since this episode I did basically nothing productive, produced a video one that topic I totally had cold dips on! Well... I intend to tackle the topic from a completely different angle and I could now use yours as a point of reference so I don't have to focus on the aspects you already dealt with myself... Hm... Anyways - MIND THEFT!! MIND THEFT!!!
ooooh sorry i cant tell if people are arguing or not mr cream sorry also i graduated high school er sorry if i spell words wrong its cause my eye sights wonky
I don't know if you've made this already, but I'd like to see a version of this for Trixie, I've been defending her from a few fellow fans, some longer fans than me, some newer. And think that in her first episode that the mane 6 were actually the ones in the wrong(minus Fluttershy) I'd like to talk with you more on this another time. So whenever you want I'm ready, also if you do make it, could I perhaps have a link?
Kurt WIlkinson Kurt Wilkinson *Bro hugs you both* Sorry its been so long, I'm trying to equalize my time between the forum I frequent, pony.square.com, and Goolge+
3:50 This is all true, up to the point where Flim and Flam steal apples from the apple family orchard to make the cider. "Ye can't sell that cider! That's our apples!"
This is a perfect example of the town I live in. We have a ton of small shops with a few big corporations here and there. This episode is to abnormal to me though. The perfect product to me can only exist in the perfect world. But in my town we do have farms who will sell their products directly or sell the items to the big corporation. So the super stores I go to has may have two brands of cider, a local brand, and a big brand. Mostly the local ones I feel are given better care for taste while the big brand cares about money and may not have all apples in the best shape. Although that is a basic to marketing and it's not perfect but it's good. Just buy what you love and support.
You took the words right out of my mouth Mr. Cream. Now if you can make a video explaining how prince Blue Blood can be related to Celestia, that'd be great. (seriously, ever since I got into the show I've been wondering how they worked)
He's her nephew. Her great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, GREEEEEAT nephew. Originally, he was supposed to be Duke Blueblood, but Hasboro put the kibosh on that. Little girls don't like dukes, you see. They like princes and princesses. On that note, I'm pretty sure Celestia was also supposed to be a queen...
cannedcream Also, Duke Blueblood doesn't come off he tongue right :b However, that being said, wouldn't that mean there are others out there related to Celestia herself we haven't seen?... Or, maybe, Hoity Toity is Prince Bluebloods Dad and there ties with Celestia are what make them so renown. (Although, this might just be me thinking too hard again)
Well, while I haven't seen the episode with Blueblood in it for a long time, there is a different possible explanation as to why he is a prince without being related to Celestia. See, we know their were three different countries before equastria, and equastria is made up of the people from these countries. However, after Discord taking over for some time (which could all be from a day to many decades since no specific time is given for how long his rule was) and then being overthrown by Celestia and Luna they became the new rulers of equstria and now hold power. Now, that would mean the equstria that existed before Discord's rule would now be ruled by two alicorns, but before that the system of power was probably a mix government (a mix of a republic from Earth ponies, Absolute monarchy from Unicorns, and then with pegasus it most likely was a roman republic system or possibly a spartan like society, seeing as they were the most militarily dominant of the three factions, though they have the most unclear system of government, mostly due to the similarities between rome and many different greek city states, sorry for rambling too long). This mix type government however would most likely be scrapped for the most part, Celestia and Luna being so powerful that the Pegasi would not object to their power out of respect, and earth ponies just liking the two in general to the point of abandoning a republic system, however, it is very possible that unicorns would not be willing to give up all their titles and power since they saw it as inherit rights for themselves to get them. Due to this it is possible that Celestia and Luna had allowed them to hold their titles, privileges and maybe some power early on. Now with all that said, it is possible that Blueblood technically is from the royal unicorn family and would assume to be the king over all Unicorns if the Alicorns would ever die (a deal that might have been possibly done before anyone knew of Alicorn's immortality), and in the meanwhile assumes the title of the Principality over unicorns (Principality was a special thing in monarchies that if the ruler was a king over multiple of titles they could basically give one of their kingdoms to their sons, usually done for them to train themselves before becoming king but also to secure the fact that his son will inherit something, though the king would still have final word on anything done, rulers over the principalities were however still called princes regardless of their connections to power) or possibly be like the modern day common royal family, a fancy accessory. This theory is backed up a bit by the fact that their is a unicorn aristocracy that has survived over thousand of years under celestia's rule. Do not take this theory as fact, it is just something that I thought about being possible from my knowledge of real life history.
I think there is something to be said for the apple supply of the farm, which was not mentioned. Now, in their second outing, I just want to point out that (if we are going by what is seen not told) they are selling this cure-all tonic for only 3 bits. Very affordable for something that does what they say it does; wouldn't have been too hard to overcharge for that.
I was also thinking that the math was iffy, though I didn't check it until watching this video. Hooray for math...and a queezy reaction to mechanizing a farming tradition.
A good question is: How many days of production/sales would the Apple's farm been able to support? If their grove could only supply enough apples for 1-2 days production--in a agreement with the Flim-Flam brothers--that would only yield 300-600 bits profit for the Apples, which probably wouldn't be enough to properly support the farm otherwise.
I saw it! It makes me think about my OC having a cutie mark. When I made it, I just thought "Well I _have_ to get a cutie mark! Time to get to work" but now, Im thinking about visiting my magical shadow thing that says they can get rid of my cutie mark.
canned cream i am a big fan of your work and truely what they were doing in super cider squeezy 6000 it is said they never once said take the farm but have cider rights that to me does not sound like they were gonna take the farm if they won witch they did and i also agree they are not villians although some people see flim and flam that way for a reason or another but no there not villians thank you for saying that i think there my favorite ponies besides the main 6 cause there honest about there product to applejack but only because they know thats the only way to keep her quiet until granny smith thinks she can do the high dive like she could in her younger years but yes i am 100% with you ty so so much you might of opened some of those peoples eyes to this video and thats where i say thank you thank thank you and i am a luna fan she is best princess why did you build a shrine of her ?
There is something else you're over looking. The apples farm has more than cider to make. And a farm is a finite resource. So if they did, thered be another problem
I absolutely love Flim and Flam. I feel like they could have been extremely beneficial to the Apple family if they had been willing to at least consider their original proposal. I haven't actually seen the second episode with them in its entirety since I haven't been keeping up with the show for a while, but I do feel as if they could have been interesting characters to keep around in the background, working on the Apple family farm. Maybe Applejack could have off handedly remarked things about them in later episodes and they could have been an interesting addition to the show. Honestly, though, I think the rejection of them was more than just Granny Smith being a bit old fashioned. I think it goes back to the same idea as in Winter Wrap Up with the Apples being strong supporters of the idea of sticking to Earth Pony ways. It makes a lot of sense for them as characters considering the fact that we're told that the Apples were in fact the ones to found Ponyville in the first place, thus making them the most likely to support that idea thoroughly and it does seem like Applejack has a tendency to prefer keeping certain things to Earth pony ways of doing it, thus keeping Unicorn magic, the entire basis of Flim and Flam's machine completely out of the question. And yes, I know this video is from a year ago, I just wanted to put in my two bits myself because this is a topic that interests me.
In my dream flim died by vulgor stabbed him the chest and ripped him in half and flam atmeted and had to go to gcpd for protection but died by me tearing him apart and he's not there only his blood and parts
If it is only measured in the inventions they could make, thy should be funded fully, but they could have slold so many more, if they asked for the price to actually buy the device? As to the second in, this is where we are slipping down the slippery slope. If we alow them for a third, what are they ready to do next?
you must also consider that they are using more apples, so they make more cider but they use 4 times as many apples per bit that the apple family gets. these apples can be used for any number of profitable things if not used for cider.
Couple problems with that though. They are still producing the same amount of cider per apple as the Apples. There is also a huge demand for the cider since only a small number out of the hundreds in line actually get any. Even if they were using more apples, there are more than enough customers to make up the difference. Finally, and I just recently learned this as well, cider season in real life comes just after the harvest gets sold. The cider is made from the apples that weren't ready for the harvest and would otherwise go to waste.
Banchoking a fine point. but that is still assuming the apple family is unable to use over 1/4 of the apples left over after the harvest. if they do normally use over 1/4 of the apples left after the harvest for making cider than they are still losing money. though admittedly they would be doing less work.
Well, from what we've seen, the quantity of apples is not a problem. Neither the Flim Flam Brothers or the Apples/Mane Six seem to go very far into the orchard even when they are producing a lot of barrels quickly, so there are likely more than enough apples in the orchard to make over 4x the cider They have a surplus of apples, they only lack the man power to turn them into cider at the rate needed to satisfy all their customers. They also get tired fairly early and have to stop for the day. Those are the only limiters on cider production shown. The SSCS6000 solves both of these problems.
Why should the Apple family take the lower end of the deal? True, the Super Speedy can make cider at a faster pace, but you don't know how much the Apples have to spend on fertilizers,pest control, water to maintain optimal conditions for the orchard. Besides savings for the winter, they might need savings for a bad crop year.
you forgot that they cheeted and made terrible sighder because thay made bad sider to win when the apples where making head way making the sider undrinkable
I looked up the definition of flimflam and the dictionary meaning is "to swindle", which I think is the best definition for Flim and Flam because they don't do anything villainous there just swindlers. I think AntonyC had the best solution to the deal in the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 episode which was for the Apples to go for the deal then sell there own Cider as a premium brand. Although the thing that gets me about that episode is that they make the cider and sell it the next day, but it takes a week for apple juice to ferment into cider so they aren't really selling any cider. >:(
The super cider squeezie 6000 will produce quality cider faster then the traditional apple methods. However you must consider the input aka the apples. There is a limited quantity of apples in the orchard. To make the maths simple let's say the orchard has enough apples to produce 100 barrels of cider and let's assume each barrel has 100 mugs worth of cider in it. If each mug is worth 2 bits that Makes the total value of the cider orchard at 20,000 bits. If The apple family can produce 10 barrels per day the season lasts 10 days. Film and flams machine will complete the harvest in just over 3 days (at 3x speed) but only provide as much revenue as 2.5 days of traditional production. Given the demand for cider appears constant there is little incentive for the apples to part with so much if the profits.
Seeing how The Apples have the resources, an established market base, reputation for integrity and has connections to places like Manehatten and Canterlot, it's only fair the Apples get at least 55%.
While I expect this to go ignored because its a link I feel this explains therecharacter much better than I can explain anything A Missed Opportunity in the Community (Part 1) its three parts so not that long and covers the flim flam brothers first appearance
I totally agree with your assesment of the traveling sales ponies. I would imagine if they were as "evil" as some fans beleive them to be, they would have been lynched or, at the very least, black-balled by irrate customers.
I have no qualms with this... but one. If they truly would produce 6x the cider, supply/demand would make cider less of a commodity, and more of just a thing you pick up on the way home from work. See how desperately RD wanted the cider to the point of eating dirt? That's because it was nearly impossible for her to get some. Now imagine you have cider easily available. Now, RD loses interest because she can get it whenever. More supply, less demand. At some point, they would end up losing profit if they kept going.
i understand your view that they are not villains but in sscs 6000 when the apples turn them down were are they getting there apples from if it's sweet apple acres then they are stealing from privet property which is wrong
The Apples agreed to allow them to use their apples for the competition (stupid decision fueled by pride) so it's not really stealing. And even if your considering that first tree they picked for the one barrel as theft I doubt they really stole too much. At best it'd be considered petty theft.
You know, those bloopers would have been right if you had just stated what base system you were using. Numbers can add up to other numbers if/when using bases other than ten.
I just had a thought. What if the Apples were more resistant towards Flim and Flam's invention because it ran on unicorn magic? Thinking about it on a wider scale, the machine, in its current model, could only be operated by roughly one-third of the Equestrian population. If all manufacturing worked in a similar manner, a major portion of the population, namely the Earth Ponies, would be stripped of many possible occupations instantaneously. Yes they could still go into other lines of work which do not rely so much on hard labor, but who in their right mind would hire a medium-sized group of Earth Ponies to pick apples or make cider if a machine powered by one or two unicorns could get the job done much faster? If Equestrian society sought to prevent this from happening, it's possible that either hard labor occupations are Earth Pony/ non-magic exclusive or technologies powered/controlled by species-exclusive means are suppressed. This could mean when Flim and Flam waltz into Ponyville, knowingly challenging an Earth Pony farm with a unicorn-centric machine, they are demolishing a system of equality that keeps the Equestrian economy fair for all species. Does that seem a smidge too far-fetched?
3:33: "So Flim and Flam do what they pretty much had every right to do--drive out the competition. That's pretty much capitalism, kids." Yes--which is villainous. Which is part of the lesson. It's odd how many people say "It's not evil, it's just good business!" as though the terms were opposites rather than synonyms.
Interesting fact - NO ONE EVER ACTUALLY BET THE FARM. The terms of the competition were, and I quote, "Whoever produces the most barrels in one hour wins the exclusive right to sell cider in Ponyville." Flim and Flam never intended to actually take over the whole farm, just the cider-making business. The Apple family still had all their other apple-related products to sell, but still, somehow the bet had transformed into an all-or-nothing battle for the farm later on. I suspect that such a high-stakes challenge was probably Granny Smith's fault, as she probably upped the ante sometime in between Flim and Flam's departure and the competition the next day.
i never had to pay for anything since i got changeling magic. i just turn into princess celestia. or i turn into a skeleton tirek with a burning head and scare the, well, u know what i mean.
And...I have to disagree on the part that they were just gonna leave...the next day, the two show up and outright STEAL from their orchard to sell a product that legally belongs to the Apple family.
I never considered them "villians" in a way, just a representation of big company versus mom/pop shop, which they had every right to do when it comes to business. Sorry kids but business is a cruel world. However when you mentioned about the Apples gaining more profit based off your anyalisis of what they'd earn compared to what they were making without agreeing to the partnership, I can see how that kinda didn't make sense and at the end of the day it was a bases of pride. However Flip and Flam were kinda inconsiderate in the fact that by challenging the apples they were running them not only out of business by their own home! That right there was where the villian aspect came in to SOME extent, but not to call them the villians themselves, but the villian of big corporations. Either way an excellent vid!
I personally think they are good rivals in sscs6000,but in leap of faith they kinda went all full villian on the apples. But I still don't believe that they are actually villians. I believe that they are just greedy salesman and not like we hadn't salesman like that in all of our lives.
on the alignment scale, the flim and flam brother have always rested at a hard, true neutral (they were pushing it a couple episodes ago though). now that i think of it, so does rainbowdash.
cannedcream the various alignment systems are so great in number and definitions that if i tried to argue with you, all it would do is just show a great level of ignorance on my part. that being said, i am using the DnD system of alignment, and i have been monitoring her behavior for some time and removed off all possible rose tinted glass that i could think to remove. i would agree with you that she does have some chaotic tendancies, she for the most part tends to trend to a balanced life style in reguard to others, and only exhibits extremes (within reason of course) when her actions directly involve her and/or her greatest passion.
Except you're forgetting one thing. Even though for a ratio of 100% ration of apples for 100 bits, they are using 600% ration, over SIX TIMES the apples, for only 125% of bits. Considering that with the apples they had on stock they could make a profit of 600 bits with the same amount of stock instead of 125 bits, over 4X the amount over a longer period of time ( assuming they have a limited amount of apples and are efficient enough to not throw away an enormous amount of apples)
Remember, the Apples sell other products too, so it's not like cider is their only profit. Think materials for a while, and you can see why it would still be a bad deal (and hence Granny saying she would lose the farm)
I think it would've been much better if the two episodes were swapped. We introduce the brothers as con-men in Leap of Faith so when it came to the Super Squeezy episode the 'first appearance' would have been a good excuse for the Apples to refuse to strike a deal.
That's actually pretty smart thinking
So yea by their first episode they were good business men in the long run and could of made at least a profitable amount for the apple family to get through the winter. But in their second appearance they were just con-men and wanted to make a living since they can't sell cider anymore because of their reputation for making bad cider. They aren't villains, they're just antagonists.
Channel Hopper MLP they’re basically filthy rich
You do realize that cider isn't thin only thing produced on Sweet Apple Acres, right? That farm provides just about ALL of the apple based products for the Ponyville area, not to mention a few others things like corm, celery, beans, and probably wheat. They are the only farm there after all. Also, in order to run all that land that makes up the orchard, roughly 75% or more (mostly likely more) goes into tending the land. As in, buying new equipment, baking supplies, firewood, not to mention daily provisions for their own family.
Flim and Flam what to use the majority of the farm produce for cider, a product that has its own season for selling. Their little 75/25 split would have made it impossible for the Apple Family to take care of their land, making it easier for the brothers to slowly buy them out. Also, they intentionally antagonized Granny because they knew they wouldn't get a deal out of her any other way.
Granted, they may not be bad enough from being true villains in the traditional sense, but they are far from being good guys.
new collector film and flam never said they want to change the farm to all apples, they just wanted to use the already existing trees to make the cider, meaning like CC said in the video there profits would go up because they'd be making more and selling more than they were before. Other than that nothing else on the farm would change, at the very least that partner ship would've evened out and they would've made nothing extra but served a lot more people, and at the most would've severely increased their profits.
Flim and Flam may have been able to make cider faster, but consider this: It still takes a long time for apples to grow. Even if there were apples growing and ripening all year except winter (which appears to be the case in equestria) the apple family wouldn't be able to grow enough apples fast enough to keep up with the machine's output. Soon they'd run out of apples, so maybe there were simply not enough apples for that 600 glasses you were talking about. What if the maximum output they could have achieved was only two hundred glasses? Maybe there really wouldn't have been enough money left over after flim and flam's cut for the farm to get through the winter.Personally I don't think the split was fair. The apple family worked a LOT harder to grow the apples than the brothers did to run the machine. The value of the labor is a factor. Plus Flim and Flam are supposed to be business ponies. A business man/woman should always be prepared for someone to refuse the first offer. I would have felt like they were better people if they'd made a second offer with a sweeter deal. Even if the second offer still wasn't very good, like a 30/70 split, an attempt at negotiation would have made them look more reasonable.
People have pointed out that the Apples also make other apple-based foods so the machine would limit them due to its output
FlimFlam-
noun
1. a trick or deception especially a swindle or confidence game involving skillful persuasion or clever manipulation of the victim
2. a piece of nonsense; twaddle; bosh
verb
3. to trick, deceive, swindle, or cheat.
On paper 75% / 25% with the greater going to Flim and Flam sounds like not much left over for the Apples, and since Applebuck Season already hints that Applejack isn't very quick with the math I can buy her not figuring out it was still a profit in her corner. Also bear in mind that while they might have been making 6 barrels to the Apple's one barrel we didn't know that until the next day, so we had no way of knowing what the profits would be at the time. All we had to go on was a single barrel and a figure that sounded like it wouldn't give much to the Apples.
Honestly, I think the Apples should have negotiated for a more proper sounding 50-50 and at least easily talked them down to a reasonable 60-40 since the machine was doing most of the work, but the brothers do need to realize that their machine is useless without the apples, and growing apples takes a lot of time and care.
Other people have pointed out how the machine uses more apples and therefore would really limit the Apple’s ability to make other apple based products
Due to the framing, Flim and Flam are antagonists, specifically for AJ. They have an objective, and AJ has an objective. These two objectives are mutually incompatible, and since AJ is our defined protagonist, Flim and Flam take the empty spot. They're not evil.
Cough cough their magic has the same color as changeling magic cough cough they're infiltrators cough cough
Um....do you need some cough medicine?I am half medic (btw gonna change my youtube name soon) my mom showed me how my dad kinda just changed most of the things
***** I watch an extremely girly and discontinued show called Tokyo Mew Mew and the main antagonists for the first like what? 40 EPISODES aren't actuall;y evil-they see our protagonists the same way the protagonists see them. AND NO ONE EXCEPT LETTUCE WANTS PEACE HUH?!
*Ehem* back on topic, There was only one villain sooooooooooooooooooo why do people jump to the fact that an antagonist is always evil? you tell me ;)
Sky Fire
It's a common misunderstanding, especially since there are a lot of antagonists that ARE evil, like Voldemort, or that one guy in my Social Studies class.
One of the questions one of the reading responses *shudder* I had to do in the seventh grade was "Is the antagonist likable?" and, to be fair, that's a good question. Admittedly, my answer for that was always "No" as most of the books I read have evil antagonists, like Harry Potter, and the Newsflesh Trilogy.
so true
Great video! I always though of flim flam like this, love the fact that in a show with chimeras and hydras there can be some entertaining antagonists for a change.
Ps:... Poor Any XD
while I agree with this examination on flim and flam, I think if something were to give them just enough nudge to the wrong direction, the two of them can become villains.
With the recent episode of them in 'leap of faith' I would say they were close to being villains seeing as they first started off as making real products of what they sell and ended up making fake products that if something were to be wrong could end up harming the ponies buying them. Seeing as Trixie went as far as to grabbing a magical amulet that corrupts her the longer she wears it all because she was driven out of town for faking about being a powerful unicorn.
I'm sorta seeing them drifting to the evil alignment. Very slowly, but a simple nudge can be a powerful shove.
Oh for sure. The brothers aren't villains yet, but they can be. They can go in EITHER direction at this point, all it would take is the right incentive. And, once there, they can just as easily slide back to the other.
Flim and Flam are really soilders of fortune. They use their talents to go where the gold is. That's all they care about.
So they can BECOME villains, but they're not there yet.
Yup!, and for now we keep them on surveillance!
SasukeX53 I think they might have learned their lesson ^^' And if not, continue the way they are, they will. See, if their products don't match up to what they claim, they will end up loosing money, and because of their greed, that's a big no. They made a fake product, yes, but I think that once they saw how it could've ended badly and they tried to cover it up but failed, they started to realize they would be loosing money. Thus they left partially to go earn money elsewhere and partially because they wanted to leave before an angry mob of a sort comes after them. Just my two cents though ^^'
we will see. season 5 just started and we may see them along the way.
been binging on mlp to catch up! finally caught up (only a season or two behind) and now theories are my fave! especially you and brony notion.
Ah yes thank you so much for saying that. Flim And Flam are my #1 favorite villains, I was acutally going to write a fan fic on their backstory!
Canned Cream your videos really are great. You think you can collab with Dr Wolf in the future?
Thank you.
Assuming the good Doctor gets his channel back, I would love to do something of the sort. I am on the list for his "A Moment with Dr Wolf" series, but so are quite a few others, so it will be some time before that video is made, let alone released.
All we can do is wait and see!
At the most, they're antagonists.
dat ending blooper
its hard to laugh when everyone else is asleep
Hey CC,
I don't mean to be mean, but why do you have a notch in your ears?
I was just curious.
Thanks!
Rosewarrior OOC? Because it looked cool. :P
In-character? Haven't figured that out yet. Birth defect? Secret changeling? Who knows! :D
cannedcream You should do something like maybe you were fighting, and it's like battle scars, as a suggestion. I was wondering the same thing. I think once you figure it out you should make a video on your OC explaining the different parts of it. I'm sure plenty of people are curious about the notches in your ears as I was.
+cannedcream I have an explanation: late night shifts at Canterlot.
Rosewarrior
finally someone realises what I've realised! You sir have the exact idea I had :D I subbed for that, I respect you sir!
I'M DIEING AT THE END LOL
Finally! Somepony with the same thoughts for the Flim flam brothers!
For me being a fan of the brothers I find them misunderstood and were taken competitive in the first time they appeared but they screwed up when they put they're machine into full power, they won for most battles of cider made but lost to bad taste. And in Leap of faith I don't think they were fooling the ponies for money, I think they were trying to give those ponies hope that they can be cured. But what's been on my mind about the tonic is that I think it DID work.
Before Granny smith knew about the tonic she wasn't able or feared to swim that she showed in the start of the episode, but then after she finds out about the tonic and drinks it she is able to swim and isn't afraid of swimming. And if the tonic doesn't work, how was Granny able to swim again?
It's what's been in my mind for while but it's kinda of off topic. But I got to say I believe that the Flim Flam brothers have one last chance to make things right and more understandable, IF we see them in season 5
(Sorry for this being a long comment I just need to let it go ^^")
Well according to the Cutie Re-Mark they are villains :3 At first they just seem like random ponies who wanna make some quick cash. But as shown in said episode, the 6th dystopian future shows them in charge of Sweet Apples Acre's and them turning the Everfree Forest into industrial complexes. So they're kinda evil i guess? IDK really. I don't really think of them as villains
you said what i was thinking
What I like about Flim and Flam is that they are correct, if only others are willing to look at it from a different point of view. And what's wrong with being a-holes? XD
business is evil. that's the lesson flim and flam's episodes teach us :p
which is a bad lesson. Government controled business is the evil.
haha, yes. also, capitalism is not evil, consumerism is.
Revkor or business controlled government
Hey you should do a video on why princes are normal unicorns,pegisi,and earth ponies but princesses are alicorns... Just a thought... I was really confused when the first non alicorn royal went on screen so would you mind clearing things up for me? That would be great!
lol great content man found you through ANY ponys video subbed alter
AnY's pretty awesome like that.
MIND THEFT! MIND THEFT!
I wanted to do this video!
And now you come along, used the two weeks since this episode I did basically nothing productive, produced a video one that topic I totally had cold dips on!
Well... I intend to tackle the topic from a completely different angle and I could now use yours as a point of reference so I don't have to focus on the aspects you already dealt with myself...
Hm...
Anyways - MIND THEFT!! MIND THEFT!!!
YOU CAN PROVE NOTHING!!!!
ALSO I AM VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT YOU WILL DO WITH YOUR VIDEO AS WELL AS YOUR OWN TAKE ON THE SUBJECT!!!!
cannedcream WELL, YOU ARE GOING TO IF YOU WANT OR NOT! (AS SOON AS I GET OFF MY LAZY ASS AND ACTUALLY START WORKING ON IT)
cannedcream uh mr cream why are you guys fighting or is it a joke i cant tell certain stuff
Bekah Gower
Nah, we're just kidding around.
ooooh sorry i cant tell if people are arguing or not mr cream sorry also i graduated high school er sorry if i spell words wrong its cause my eye sights wonky
Ooh, sick Spidey burn! Too soon bro, too soon. (But not really, because that made me laugh more than it should! XD)
I like them.
In fanfiction there is just so much to work with. They make for great catalysts.
well in a fanfic of mine my oc rips off the heads of the Flim Flam brothers.
I don't know if you've made this already, but I'd like to see a version of this for Trixie, I've been defending her from a few fellow fans, some longer fans than me, some newer. And think that in her first episode that the mane 6 were actually the ones in the wrong(minus Fluttershy) I'd like to talk with you more on this another time. So whenever you want I'm ready, also if you do make it, could I perhaps have a link?
SAR YOURE BACK *hugs you crying*
I MISSED YOU BIG BROTHER!!! *cries louder*
ME TOO!!!!
Kurt WIlkinson
Kurt Wilkinson
*Bro hugs you both* Sorry its been so long, I'm trying to equalize my time between the forum I frequent, pony.square.com, and Goolge+
lol im both of em~~
3:50 This is all true, up to the point where Flim and Flam steal apples from the apple family orchard to make the cider.
"Ye can't sell that cider! That's our apples!"
gosh darn it! you got that stuck in my head!
This is a perfect example of the town I live in. We have a ton of small shops with a few big corporations here and there. This episode is to abnormal to me though. The perfect product to me can only exist in the perfect world. But in my town we do have farms who will sell their products directly or sell the items to the big corporation. So the super stores I go to has may have two brands of cider, a local brand, and a big brand. Mostly the local ones I feel are given better care for taste while the big brand cares about money and may not have all apples in the best shape. Although that is a basic to marketing and it's not perfect but it's good. Just buy what you love and support.
You took the words right out of my mouth Mr. Cream.
Now if you can make a video explaining how prince Blue Blood can be related to Celestia, that'd be great.
(seriously, ever since I got into the show I've been wondering how they worked)
He's her nephew.
Her great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, GREEEEEAT nephew.
Originally, he was supposed to be Duke Blueblood, but Hasboro put the kibosh on that. Little girls don't like dukes, you see. They like princes and princesses.
On that note, I'm pretty sure Celestia was also supposed to be a queen...
cannedcream Also, Duke Blueblood doesn't come off he tongue right :b
However, that being said, wouldn't that mean there are others out there related to Celestia herself we haven't seen?...
Or, maybe, Hoity Toity is Prince Bluebloods Dad and there ties with Celestia are what make them so renown.
(Although, this might just be me thinking too hard again)
MrOverAnalyzer I meant to say Fancy Pants.
Damn unicorns... Can't tell one from another
MrOverAnalyzer What I want to see is a family tree to show how they're related. And throw Cadence in there too.
Well, while I haven't seen the episode with Blueblood in it for a long time, there is a different possible explanation as to why he is a prince without being related to Celestia. See, we know their were three different countries before equastria, and equastria is made up of the people from these countries. However, after Discord taking over for some time (which could all be from a day to many decades since no specific time is given for how long his rule was) and then being overthrown by Celestia and Luna they became the new rulers of equstria and now hold power.
Now, that would mean the equstria that existed before Discord's rule would now be ruled by two alicorns, but before that the system of power was probably a mix government (a mix of a republic from Earth ponies, Absolute monarchy from Unicorns, and then with pegasus it most likely was a roman republic system or possibly a spartan like society, seeing as they were the most militarily dominant of the three factions, though they have the most unclear system of government, mostly due to the similarities between rome and many different greek city states, sorry for rambling too long). This mix type government however would most likely be scrapped for the most part, Celestia and Luna being so powerful that the Pegasi would not object to their power out of respect, and earth ponies just liking the two in general to the point of abandoning a republic system, however, it is very possible that unicorns would not be willing to give up all their titles and power since they saw it as inherit rights for themselves to get them. Due to this it is possible that Celestia and Luna had allowed them to hold their titles, privileges and maybe some power early on.
Now with all that said, it is possible that Blueblood technically is from the royal unicorn family and would assume to be the king over all Unicorns if the Alicorns would ever die (a deal that might have been possibly done before anyone knew of Alicorn's immortality), and in the meanwhile assumes the title of the Principality over unicorns (Principality was a special thing in monarchies that if the ruler was a king over multiple of titles they could basically give one of their kingdoms to their sons, usually done for them to train themselves before becoming king but also to secure the fact that his son will inherit something, though the king would still have final word on anything done, rulers over the principalities were however still called princes regardless of their connections to power) or possibly be like the modern day common royal family, a fancy accessory.
This theory is backed up a bit by the fact that their is a unicorn aristocracy that has survived over thousand of years under celestia's rule.
Do not take this theory as fact, it is just something that I thought about being possible from my knowledge of real life history.
I think there is something to be said for the apple supply of the farm, which was not mentioned. Now, in their second outing, I just want to point out that (if we are going by what is seen not told) they are selling this cure-all tonic for only 3 bits. Very affordable for something that does what they say it does; wouldn't have been too hard to overcharge for that.
I love these two more than I should
I was also thinking that the math was iffy, though I didn't check it until watching this video. Hooray for math...and a queezy reaction to mechanizing a farming tradition.
Say if you had something like that orange farm and they came to take over your farm wouldn't you do the same thing or a pair Farm
canned cream how would you react if flim and flam tried to sell you one of their products
A good question is: How many days of production/sales would the Apple's farm been able to support? If their grove could only supply enough apples for 1-2 days production--in a agreement with the Flim-Flam brothers--that would only yield 300-600 bits profit for the Apples, which probably wouldn't be enough to properly support the farm otherwise.
It's clear you used the pony creator too make your OC, but where'd you get the tie? (I need to get a specific necklace for my own OC)
I really never care about that episode but it is one of the episode that I might attempt to fix in my fanfiction.
Why doesn't CC have a cutiemark?
I think he explains that in a blank flank video..... maybe
EmbertailLuvsCookies I do. Check if out if you got the time! :)
I saw it! It makes me think about my OC having a cutie mark. When I made it, I just thought "Well I _have_ to get a cutie mark! Time to get to work" but now, Im thinking about visiting my magical shadow thing that says they can get rid of my cutie mark.
My OC has to have a cutie mark other wise her un written back story makes no sense what so ever
Abba Zabba his Oc was made in the pony creator?
canned cream i am a big fan of your work and truely what they were doing in super cider squeezy 6000 it is said they never once said take the farm but have cider rights that to me does not sound like they were gonna take the farm if they won witch they did and i also agree they are not villians although some people see flim and flam that way for a reason or another but no there not villians thank you for saying that i think there my favorite ponies besides the main 6 cause there honest about there product to applejack but only because they know thats the only way to keep her quiet until granny smith thinks she can do the high dive like she could in her younger years but yes i am 100% with you ty so so much you might of opened some of those peoples eyes to this video and thats where i say thank you thank thank you and i am a luna fan she is best princess why did you build a shrine of her ?
There is something else you're over looking. The apples farm has more than cider to make. And a farm is a finite resource. So if they did, thered be another problem
So did anyone notice that their song when you first meet them that it's from the musical the music man?
I absolutely love Flim and Flam. I feel like they could have been extremely beneficial to the Apple family if they had been willing to at least consider their original proposal. I haven't actually seen the second episode with them in its entirety since I haven't been keeping up with the show for a while, but I do feel as if they could have been interesting characters to keep around in the background, working on the Apple family farm. Maybe Applejack could have off handedly remarked things about them in later episodes and they could have been an interesting addition to the show. Honestly, though, I think the rejection of them was more than just Granny Smith being a bit old fashioned. I think it goes back to the same idea as in Winter Wrap Up with the Apples being strong supporters of the idea of sticking to Earth Pony ways. It makes a lot of sense for them as characters considering the fact that we're told that the Apples were in fact the ones to found Ponyville in the first place, thus making them the most likely to support that idea thoroughly and it does seem like Applejack has a tendency to prefer keeping certain things to Earth pony ways of doing it, thus keeping Unicorn magic, the entire basis of Flim and Flam's machine completely out of the question. And yes, I know this video is from a year ago, I just wanted to put in my two bits myself because this is a topic that interests me.
This is exactly why I love those two characters so much. There just old timey business men/ Inventors and their awesome.
Best blooper ever I like how it said I can count to potato
"Are they A-Holes?" -Fence scene- "Double yes." Bwahaha XD
You need to consider the total worth of the overall profif and what effort they put into maintining the Orchard.
Hey cc have you ever considered flim and flam to be like Fred and George from Harry Potter.
Do something on season 5 episode 1 please
In my dream flim died by vulgor stabbed him the chest and ripped him in half and flam atmeted and had to go to gcpd for protection but died by me tearing him apart and he's not there only his blood and parts
good point. villians and jerks, are not the same thing.
well in season 4...
sunrise: I WILL GOTO WAR OVER THIS you ****!!!
me: language sunrise, language!
If it is only measured in the inventions they could make, thy should be funded fully, but they could have slold so many more, if they asked for the price to actually buy the device?
As to the second in, this is where we are slipping down the slippery slope.
If we alow them for a third, what are they ready to do next?
OK, CC, i like there songs and all, but when i see flim and flam i think what you think when you see snips and snails
you must also consider that they are using more apples, so they make more cider but they use 4 times as many apples per bit that the apple family gets. these apples can be used for any number of profitable things if not used for cider.
Couple problems with that though.
They are still producing the same amount of cider per apple as the Apples.
There is also a huge demand for the cider since only a small number out of the hundreds in line actually get any. Even if they were using more apples, there are more than enough customers to make up the difference.
Finally, and I just recently learned this as well, cider season in real life comes just after the harvest gets sold. The cider is made from the apples that weren't ready for the harvest and would otherwise go to waste.
Banchoking a fine point. but that is still assuming the apple family is unable to use over 1/4 of the apples left over after the harvest. if they do normally use over 1/4 of the apples left after the harvest for making cider than they are still losing money. though admittedly they would be doing less work.
Well, from what we've seen, the quantity of apples is not a problem.
Neither the Flim Flam Brothers or the Apples/Mane Six seem to go very far into the orchard even when they are producing a lot of barrels quickly, so there are likely more than enough apples in the orchard to make over 4x the cider
They have a surplus of apples, they only lack the man power to turn them into cider at the rate needed to satisfy all their customers.
They also get tired fairly early and have to stop for the day.
Those are the only limiters on cider production shown. The SSCS6000 solves both of these problems.
Why should the Apple family take the lower end of the deal? True, the Super Speedy can make cider at a faster pace, but you don't know how much the Apples have to spend on fertilizers,pest control, water to maintain optimal conditions for the orchard. Besides savings for the winter, they might need savings for a bad crop year.
True. They probably would have been better off haggling than refusing flat out.
you forgot that they cheeted and made terrible sighder because thay made bad sider to win when the apples where making head way making the sider undrinkable
They are Foil for the Apples in every scene.
First time, second time and even the film.
MIND. BLOWN.
did they say they made the machine? I don't remember.
OK, so Flim and Flam aren't villains but they are still big bad meanie beanies
Nails the episode name says wrong wrong
I agree with you CC. :)
Their songs are super catchy.
Um cc i was about to put a different coment but did you say that f word I'm just asking because I'm only10
What about when the machine was spotted in that alternate timeline
I looked up the definition of flimflam and the dictionary meaning is "to swindle", which I think is the best definition for Flim and Flam because they don't do anything villainous there just swindlers. I think AntonyC had the best solution to the deal in the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 episode which was for the Apples to go for the deal then sell there own Cider as a premium brand.
Although the thing that gets me about that episode is that they make the cider and sell it the next day, but it takes a week for apple juice to ferment into cider so they aren't really selling any cider. >:(
I don't mind them. they shouldn't rely on the placebo effect tho. if u want to sell meds, go get meds to sell, don't lie.
do it about season 5
nice voice cc!
The super cider squeezie 6000 will produce quality cider faster then the traditional apple methods. However you must consider the input aka the apples. There is a limited quantity of apples in the orchard. To make the maths simple let's say the orchard has enough apples to produce 100 barrels of cider and let's assume each barrel has 100 mugs worth of cider in it. If each mug is worth 2 bits that Makes the total value of the cider orchard at 20,000 bits. If The apple family can produce 10 barrels per day the season lasts 10 days. Film and flams machine will complete the harvest in just over 3 days (at 3x speed) but only provide as much revenue as 2.5 days of traditional production. Given the demand for cider appears constant there is little incentive for the apples to part with so much if the profits.
Seeing how The Apples have the resources, an established market base, reputation for integrity and has connections to places like Manehatten and Canterlot, it's only fair the Apples get at least 55%.
While I expect this to go ignored because its a link I feel this explains therecharacter much better than I can explain anything
A Missed Opportunity in the Community (Part 1)
its three parts so not that long and covers the flim flam brothers first appearance
Pfft, ignored or not, this sure made my day. Haha. Thank you.
C.K. welcome
I totally agree with your assesment of the traveling sales ponies. I would imagine if they were as "evil" as some fans beleive them to be, they would have been lynched or, at the very least, black-balled by irrate customers.
I have no qualms with this... but one.
If they truly would produce 6x the cider, supply/demand would make cider less of a commodity, and more of just a thing you pick up on the way home from work. See how desperately RD wanted the cider to the point of eating dirt? That's because it was nearly impossible for her to get some. Now imagine you have cider easily available. Now, RD loses interest because she can get it whenever. More supply, less demand. At some point, they would end up losing profit if they kept going.
i understand your view that they are not villains but in sscs 6000 when the apples turn them down were are they getting there apples from if it's sweet apple acres then they are stealing from privet property which is wrong
The Apples agreed to allow them to use their apples for the competition (stupid decision fueled by pride) so it's not really stealing. And even if your considering that first tree they picked for the one barrel as theft I doubt they really stole too much. At best it'd be considered petty theft.
oh ok that does seem dumb for them to allow them to use there apples
Perfect explanation.
You can count to potato? Wow! I can only count to pineapple!
You know, those bloopers would have been right if you had just stated what base system you were using. Numbers can add up to other numbers if/when using bases other than ten.
Thank you for trying to make it look like I DON'T have the math skills of a 2-year-old. :P
5:06 favorite joke of the video.
after watching this i don't hate them anymore....
I just had a thought. What if the Apples were more resistant towards Flim and Flam's invention because it ran on unicorn magic? Thinking about it on a wider scale, the machine, in its current model, could only be operated by roughly one-third of the Equestrian population. If all manufacturing worked in a similar manner, a major portion of the population, namely the Earth Ponies, would be stripped of many possible occupations instantaneously. Yes they could still go into other lines of work which do not rely so much on hard labor, but who in their right mind would hire a medium-sized group of Earth Ponies to pick apples or make cider if a machine powered by one or two unicorns could get the job done much faster? If Equestrian society sought to prevent this from happening, it's possible that either hard labor occupations are Earth Pony/ non-magic exclusive or technologies powered/controlled by species-exclusive means are suppressed. This could mean when Flim and Flam waltz into Ponyville, knowingly challenging an Earth Pony farm with a unicorn-centric machine, they are demolishing a system of equality that keeps the Equestrian economy fair for all species.
Does that seem a smidge too far-fetched?
While likely not to be canon, it does make the basis of a cool comic or fan fiction, I think.
i agree with CC they are just harmless yet greedy sales ponies. plus they sing
in 600 i thought that was a badly written episode on that very subject. They could have bargined more on the percentaged and everybody could have won.
you shode have cut tu big mac as he said nope wen you said no it was stil a relly good video just saing
3:33: "So Flim and Flam do what they pretty much had every right to do--drive out the competition. That's pretty much capitalism, kids." Yes--which is villainous. Which is part of the lesson. It's odd how many people say "It's not evil, it's just good business!" as though the terms were opposites rather than synonyms.
I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though
are you saying apples are bad at making cider I'm a .A.J fan by the way
Actually, you are missing out here.
We have a limited amount of apples.
The true question is, just how much the respective component is worth?
Interesting fact - NO ONE EVER ACTUALLY BET THE FARM. The terms of the competition were, and I quote, "Whoever produces the most barrels in one hour wins the exclusive right to sell cider in Ponyville." Flim and Flam never intended to actually take over the whole farm, just the cider-making business. The Apple family still had all their other apple-related products to sell, but still, somehow the bet had transformed into an all-or-nothing battle for the farm later on. I suspect that such a high-stakes challenge was probably Granny Smith's fault, as she probably upped the ante sometime in between Flim and Flam's departure and the competition the next day.
i never had to pay for anything since i got changeling magic. i just turn into princess celestia. or i turn into a skeleton tirek with a burning head and scare the, well, u know what i mean.
And...I have to disagree on the part that they were just gonna leave...the next day, the two show up and outright STEAL from their orchard to sell a product that legally belongs to the Apple family.
i completly agree with cannedcream
So do I.
I can see at the end that math would not be your cutie mark talent
Once again,CC, your magix of the analyzing magixz has changed the way I see everything!!
This is my gift. This is my curse.
I never considered them "villians" in a way, just a representation of big company versus mom/pop shop, which they had every right to do when it comes to business. Sorry kids but business is a cruel world. However when you mentioned about the Apples gaining more profit based off your anyalisis of what they'd earn compared to what they were making without agreeing to the partnership, I can see how that kinda didn't make sense and at the end of the day it was a bases of pride. However Flip and Flam were kinda inconsiderate in the fact that by challenging the apples they were running them not only out of business by their own home! That right there was where the villian aspect came in to SOME extent, but not to call them the villians themselves, but the villian of big corporations. Either way an excellent vid!
I personally think they are good rivals in sscs6000,but in leap of faith they kinda went all full villian on the apples. But I still don't believe that they are actually villians. I believe that they are just greedy salesman and not like we hadn't salesman like that in all of our lives.
THOSE BLOOPERS DOE XD
on the alignment scale, the flim and flam brother have always rested at a hard, true neutral (they were pushing it a couple episodes ago though). now that i think of it, so does rainbowdash.
I'd call Dashie chaotic good, myself.
cannedcream the various alignment systems are so great in number and definitions that if i tried to argue with you, all it would do is just show a great level of ignorance on my part.
that being said, i am using the DnD system of alignment, and i have been monitoring her behavior for some time and removed off all possible rose tinted glass that i could think to remove. i would agree with you that she does have some chaotic tendancies, she for the most part tends to trend to a balanced life style in reguard to others, and only exhibits extremes (within reason of course) when her actions directly involve her and/or her greatest passion.
Sorry *Flim and Flam* and ya they didn't challenge them, the apples did, my bad, whoopsy lol