MTG Top 10: Worst Burn Spells | Magic: the Gathering | Episode 93
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Eternal Flame + Backdraft does not combine in the manner which you described, as Backdraft deals damage to the caster of Eternal Flame (you). Say you Eternal Flame your opponent for 10 and yourself for 5, Backdraft will deal 7 to you. In short: 6 mana, two cards, 10 damage to an opponent, 12 to yourself.
As a total noob I was really confused about his explanation.
I'm pretty sure Shower of Sparks had seen some play in Urza Block Constructed, since it was best alternative to shock in the block.
That card is not bad at all. This same set had things like Priest of Titania and this is not Burn, this is a solid Sideboard removal spell
Scorching Spear was probably printed to help beginning players know how sorcery and basic burn spells work since Portal was seen as a beginner level set.
That's not really an excuse, it's already worse than Shock at sorcery speed so also lowering the damage just makes no sense whatsoever. "Simple card for new players" doesn't have to mean "unplayably bad card." I know you didn't design it, it's not your fault, but please don't defend it.
Cyan Light I do not disagree. I don’t want to defend it lol it is a bad Card, but what I was referring to was that simply this was printed in the Portal set which was a beginner level set, that’s all. The Portal cards were meant to learn the game for new players.
Sorry, their "we have to print cards we know are bad because it's somehow good for the game due to reasons that have nothing to do with saving on playtesting and design costs" philosophy that they actively tell people as though they're proud of it drove me away from playing Magic and I've heard enough players actually defend it that I get old war flashbacks. My bad.
Cyan Light it’s all good lol 😂 I like that. Old war flashbacks. That made me chuckle lol
@@TheSquareOnes Read this article: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-2002-01-28 . And actually read it, don't dismiss it beforehand. If you still disagree with their reasons, then godspeed, but to criticize their motives you have to at least understand them.
Backdraft feels like it was printed to counter the Channel+Fireball combo. "Oh, you're putting at least two thirds of your current life total into a Fireball? Take half that as damage. Game."
but does channel deal the damage, or allow you to pay life total as mana? because i dont think channel is dealing the damage, and if fireball is on the stack, you cant do the damage to them
@johncameron6877
I've been away from the game a long time (20+ years) and am currently enjoying a renaissance and watching some great content (thanks, Nizzahon!).
Although belated, what StevetheWizard is referring to is that an opponent could cast Channel, then pay 14 life as a mana source and use the mana towards the X casting cost of Fireball. Fireball then resolves, causing 14 damage to you. Now they're sitting at 6 life and you somehow are still alive. Afterward, you cast Backdraft, using Fireball as the sorcery that caused damage. Boom! 7 damage to the opponent and they're toast.
Mind you, the opponent can cast Channel during their main phase but not cast the Fireball until their 2nd main phase, since Channel's life for mana effect can be used until end of turn. And for dramatic effect, you can also wait until their end phase to hit them with Backdraft 😂
Nah, the situation is a _little_ better than that.
Opponent uses a mountain + fast mana + 19 channeled life to fireball you for 26 damage.
This all resolves, leaving you at-5 life. You don't die because, under the rules at the time, life totals were only checked at the end of a phase.
You cast backdraft and hit your opponent for 12, leaving them at -11.
Now, if you can figure out a way to heal then you win, otherwise it's a draw.
"Edh burn decks..."
That sounds wrong.
OOM- 32 Neheb Burn is pretty good
All the damage doublers. I once cast a 2*4 bolt (copied with two double damage cards).
Neheb, Purphoros, and Heartless Hidetsugu are great burn commanders
Sounds fun kinda
Zozu the punisher is ver y funny too
But what about that rare moment where you backdraft someone casting a blasphemous act.
Backdraft only reflects damage dealt to _you,_ not your creatures.
it deals half the dasmange the soccery DEALT. not per say to you
Arctangent errata'd text: "Choose a player who cast one or more sorcery spells this turn. Backdraft deals damage to that player equal to half the damage dealt by one of those sorcery spells this turn, rounded down." So it does work post Blasphemous Act.
Why limit yourself to scrub cards like Blasphemous Act when we have Star of Extinction now?
angrybellsprout because i already have blas act
The art on Flare is stunning. Don't really see pieces like that anymore in MTG.
Don't dis flare! In my cantrip deck it did *work*.
------
Speaking of cantrips... how did Orcish Cannonade rank?
I think backdraft is a sideboard card on a dragon/token deck against hurricane, so that if your opponent try to wipe your dragons you can play it after it killed all your stuff.
So if you have 2 flyers and opponent cast hurricane X=5, after it resolve cast the backdraft it will deal 10 damage for 2mana.
It also can potentially be an instant kill on a multiplayer game when a spell like earthquake etc is used on a board with large number of creatures on the field.
It is too narrow but not completely unplayable.
Actually. Backdraft sounds really powerful against Star of extinction in EDH, 10 Damage to player per creature on the battlefield!
Also powerful against EarthQuake too!
Nizzahon: Those are terrible cards.
My brain: How can I build a deck which makes them awesome? Doesn't cantrip burn combine very well with Narset, Omniscience and Cast Through Time?
Me: Brain, stahp!
I feel like backdraft was likely intended as a "counter" to x cost spells like fireball.
Just play Counterspell!
Nizzahon Magic In a red deck?
But backdraft doesn't even stop opponent's burn
Backdraft after an blasfemous act is a rly good play
TMK thats what i thought
TMK It doesn't do anything with Blasphemous Act, you havw to,be damaged. Act doesn't damage you.
Nizzahon Magic the card checks for damage dealt, not damage dealt on you
What's rule #1 in Magic guys?
OUCH!!! Lmao
Back drafting someone casting a Blas act must be so satisfying
Great content, man: you are meticulous while allowing human input (flavor text and nostalgia) to influence your ultimate conclusions. Nay, your ultimate conclusions are based on effeciency; your opinions come from the heart. You make a point of separating the two! You deserve forty million likes.
That is quite the compliment!
At least Shower of Sparks have a nice classic art
Anon I can picture that guy, with the most cliché medieval wizard voice imaginable, going "Yo, that shit was wack, bro. That was off the chizzy. Dayum."
Maybe I just lost my mind, but Eternal Flame actually appears pretty good to me. It can do 6 dmg to my opponent for four mana and 3 dmg to me - I'd buy that for a dollar if I'm playing burn.
it was pretty good, I used it all the time back in the day. it was lower mana so you could Fork it
although I did have problems against my friend's UR Psi-Blast burn deck; we drew 5 games out of the 8 in the finals of a Lotus tournament on mutual deaths
this guy is just some EDH tool
Format? Flame rift is the good version of this card
4 mana for six damage isn't a good deal, though. That's, like, 2 lightning strikes with downside. There are way better things to do with that much mana.
If they're the worst... THEN THEY'RE AFFORDABLE!! I'm so budget... ಥ_ಥ
Lol
A year late but some good budget burn spells are shock and lightning strike
Flaming Gambit... I know a great combo.
Target yourself with Stuffy Doll, or similar creature's in play.
Grin and Bear it.
"Backdraft" is indeed the worst- especially when we have spells such as "Reflect Damage", "Deflection", "Deflecting Palm" or even "Reverse Damage".
Good list! Some other contenders: Mana Clash and Game of Chaos have terrible rates in terms of expected outcome.
If we look at nonred cards, Fire and Brimstone was quite a clunker, as were Mind Bomb, Psychic Transfer, and Last Caress.
Please note that 40% of this list was from Odyssey Block. A lot of Red's creatures from these sets were equally terrible. Imagine the outcry these days if a color was unplayable in limited for a whole year.
Shower of sparks has a wonderful art!
Liquid fire seems lowkey really solid in limited. Like if the removal suite isnt fantastic in a set, having a 5 damage burn spell that can dome your opponent for paving a 4/3 seems like kinda legit and its can basically just lava axe.
Limited Review:
Flare- Was ok filler in Mirage Block limited but greatly overshadowed by far stronger cards. Was mainly good because there were a decent supply of x/1 creatures (notably the 1 mana pingers and wake of vultures) It also benefited from red being the strongest color in the format and therefore always overdrafted. You needed all the playables you could get. - C
Flaming gambit - Was incredibly situational in that it basically requires an empty opponent board or only large creatures on the opponent side with them at a low life total and therefore terrible - F
Hanabi Blast - I was definitely in the camp of this being good (and it was). Very solid card in kamigawa limited. While not insane, the format was filled with smaller creatures and this was decent repeatable removal. A 3 mana shock is borderline playable, but this card gave you potential additional value in any stalled board state if you did the task of holding your excess lands. Best in U/R with the cloudfolk mechanic that was one of the strongest Color Combos in the format. - B-
Ember Shot - yep too expensive for this limited format. Bad Filler - D
Liquid Fire - Playable removal that could go to the dome - C+
Kamahl's sledge - too expensive. Bad Filler - D-
Shower of sparks - Did too little in the format for the most part, sometimes brought in to fight against ridiculous mana elves (priests of titania) of the format. - D
Scorching spear - Not a limited format, but a underpowered card overall, not even an instant. Would be an F.
Eternal Flame - Not a limited format. Could be a weak card in a monored format somewhere as a burn finisher. Would be an F
Backdraft- Not a limited format. Yea... this one is Bad. F
I will defend ‘Nameless Race’. Since, at the time, White had few good flyers, if you got nameless race out, white creatures would run into it if they attacked. Other than Sera Angel, Swords to Plowshares, and the endless white creatures with Protection from Black, it would be an OK card? So it’s just horrible and not the worst card ever. Other than that, if your opponent is playing mono-white, it’s OK. Perhaps it’s meant to mirror the Swords to Plowshares your opponent is definitely playing, because you gain back all the life you payed. It’s still horrible. It’s just not the the worst card ever and almost interesting? Maybe you can even gain an advantage somehow by the life you pay. Mirror universe. Cast it, somehow as an instant during your upkeep, force your opponent to put half their cards in the graveyard, pay 20 life, force magic to go back to its old rules (where you didn’t die until the end of the phase, and switch life totals with your opponent.
Scorching Spear: "Why? Why did they print this?"
Because it was PORTAL, the "learn how to play magic before there were starter decks" set. It really shouldn't have been on this list since most of Portal is either designed to teach basic game play. Very little in Portal is even legit printed elsewhere.
Backdraft would actually take all damage from Eternal Flame into account, meaning it does half of the damage dealt to you and half of the damage dealt to your opponent to whoever casts that sorcery. So he'd take 1.25 times the damage you do (without rounding).
Shower of sparks is going in my torbran deck.
Flare too. Wonder if my group will still let lucky clover be played if I start doing 4 damage and drawing 2 cards with one of the worst burn spells.
I used to run shower of sparks in a peculiar izzet deck for some combo, forget exactly what it was but the card did the job.
Sonic Seizure from Torment has the best art of any burn spell and no one can convince me otherwise
You have two number 3's. "At number 3 we have Shower of Sparks" "At number 3 we have Scorching Spear"
Yeah the mistake is addressed in an on-screen annotation.
What does the little stone tablet in the upper left corner of Flaming Gambit mean?
I like shower of sparks to trigger bloodthirst and maybe burn a creature but, that’s just very casual weekend magic
I used Flaming Gambit in a casual red control deck that had a whole bunch of different things that could force my opponent to choose something they'd have to sacrifice. I liked to think it was pretty demoralizing.
I love the fact that Backdraft could literally deal four times as much damage as it deals (twice as much as the spell to the caster) and it would still only be vaguely acceptable in a burn-heavy meta sideboard.
I'm sorry, but Hanabi Blast was quite playable in Limited, if not pretty good. It takes Kamahl's Sledge and Ember Shot level of inefficiency to not see play in Limited. It gets really good in the part of the game where you're holding multiple lands in your hand having played out everything else.
Scorching Spear was created to teach people. And your combo at the end doesn't work the way you think it does. The Backdraft will damage you, seeing as you were the one that cast the sorcery eternal flame, so Backdraft will choose you as the target of that mirrored sorcery.
Not trying to defend Ember Shot here. I know it is a bad card. Just wanted to try something silly.
Be late game EDH~
LOTS of red mana at hand~ (I have a buddy that can do this easily midgame)
Lucky enough draw for this~
(Pfft, like this is likely to happen)
Tap for 9 red: Doublecast and Ember Shot. 6 damage done, 2 cards drawn.
Tap for 12 red: Shreds of Sanity, then Doublecast and Ember Shot. 6 damage, 2 cards drawn.
Tap for 16 red: Volcanic Vision the Ember Shot, then Ember Shot and Increasing Vengeance. 6 damage + 7 damage to each opponent's creature, 2 cards drawn.
Tap for 15 red: Past in Flames, then flashback Doublecost, chaining Ember Shot, then increasing Vengeance for a total of 4 Ember Shots. 12 damage, 4 cards drawn.
In summation:
5 cards used in 4 combinations
52 red many expended
30 damage done plus potential boardwipe of most opposing creatures
10 cards drawn
Actual result (reality hits)
"I cast Doublec-"
"Counter"
You know what ill defend these cards I'm not criticizing this video still a great video so let's see what I can do!!!!
10- Hey you can remove a 1/1 servo in kaladash
9- If they have 1 creature they gotta remove it plus you could remove their other creatures first then use this!
8- Like he said decent in madness...
7- Got me there...
6- You could kill a 4/4 and deal 1 damage to the opponet... so total garbage
5- Threshold and what are the odds you'll cast it before threshold?
4-I can see myself use this... its servo or saproling removal
3- Again good at 1/1 removal.... this and 4 is decent agenst token engin- wait 3 is a sorcery??? Never mine what I said about 3 hehas me here too
2- Decks that use life as a resource could run it as it isnt the worst if you have healing spells, or lifelink
1-So if you cant counter a sorcery that deals damage HEY WE GOT A SOLUTION
That's my take
can you even use liquid fire if opponent doesn't have a creature?
That Eternal Flame + Backdraft combo at the end would actually hit yourself since you casted the Eternal Flame. It seems Backdraft doesn't even have a place among other bad burn cards :(
I'm pretty sure Backdraft + Eternal Flame hurts YOU more than your opponent, because Backdraft says it deals damage to the caster of a target sorcery you took damage from. And you cast Eternal Flame. So you Eternal Flame for 8, you take 4 from it, Backdraft yourself for an additional 2.
I love it.
So what would happen if you put a Hanabi Blast on an Elite Arcanist?
In pauper commander shower of sparks and scorching spear are decent with something like Guttersnipe, Young Pyromancer, or Chandra' spitfire as your commander to trigger them. They are only "decent" because they cost 1 mana and can be fired back to back easily however.
add your land staples from the worst lands (a playset of the top 5) and you have your new vintage burn deck
Ember shot is basically Lighting Strike or Lighting Bolt + Divination
So it should cost 5 in the common slot, 4 in the uncommon slot 🤷
In addition to what some other people have said, it should be noted that liquid fire bypasses player shroud and player he proof, because it targets the creature, not the player.
Edit: and kamahl's sledge has the same trick with threshold active
When Burn is bad it is *bad* .
Never have I seen a Top Ten that I so badly want to build around.. So much jank here that I want to make slightly less unplayable 🤣
Now I'm definitely going to work on a Mardu list for casual utilizing Soulfire Grandmaster and Pestilent Spirit.
It says a lot about Magic the Gathering when one of the worst burn spells, Shower of Sparks, is still way better than the worst burn spell in yugioh, Sparks.
Hanabi Blast was great in Kamigawa limited. I won plenty of drafts with 2-4 of those in my samurai decks.
But what about a Backdraft after a million mana fireball to tie the game? Or after Blasphemous Act? EDIT: I'm not actually sure about fireball
Fireball would have to kill you first. Is pretty sweet against blasphemous act though. But you definitely shouldn't run it for that corner case.
Oh yeah, wasn't sure when it had to be cast, I thought maybe while fireball was on the stack you could cast it. But yeah doesn't really seem worth it for just Blasphemous Act then.
Backdraft can be pretty sweet in EDH though because blasphemous act is everywhere. Oh you’re doing 13 damage to ten targets? Please take 65 damage.
Backdraft is a sick counter to Inferno! 7 creatures on the board, opponent casts inferno, Backdraft for a cool 21 damage. gg. ;)
*edit* Inferno is an instant. Guess Backdraft still sux. :P
In a world with Lightning Bolt and Shock who needs anything else?
Except Chandra's Ignition + Serra Avatar in a Life Gain Deck. I don't like EDH, but that's my only EDH deck. It can win the whole game completely out of the blue.
What about First Volley, which is strictly worse than Shower of Sparks? Same thing but for 2 mana and it's Arcane.
Cyborg, second
Should have noted what portal was, and that it had no instants, artifacts, or enchantments in the set? (Not a very good card, but one with a purpose)
Also the fact that flare lets you draw the card on your opponents turn if you cast it during your own can lead to some interesting situations.
What a drawn out intro...
Otherwise a great video! I get to see some cards I have never seen in Magic from your videos👍🏽
Nearly two minutes 😄
what’s with oddysey block and shitty burn spells?
Backdraft might be terrible... But it's hilarious if someone just dropped a Blasphemous act.
6.5 damage per creature on the board when it was played.
Let's say your opponent has 8 mountains for ease. Eternal Flame says it does 8 damage to you & 4 damage to them. Wouldn't that mean if you cast Backdraft it would do 6 to your opponent?
Backdraft says half the damage of one sorcery, & grand total Eternal Flames did do 12 damage between both targets.
Maybe I just play Magic wrong, and to be fair I don't even own many of the major Tron lands, but I don't think I've ever gotten to a point, especially in Commander, where I had 7 Mana available but not enough cards to reach threshold. Granted, that doesn't make the card great, but if you're playing that you have threshold.
playing backdraft after eternal flame wouldnt burn the opponent for a quarter of the damage they took, it would burn you for half the damage you and your opponent took, since it says deal half the damage the sorcery dealt, (not just the damage to you) and deal it to the caster of the sorcery (you)
I know you were strictly looking at red burn, but greens burn should have got an honorable mention with the functionally identical Bee Sting and Unyaro Bee Sting. 4 mana shock at sorcery speed? No, thanks
Actually #1 would be ridiculously awesome against Star of Extinction, assuming that you had at least one creature or planeswalker on the board.
Ember Shot is my favorite bad card in the game, because it's an example of something that seems like it was comically nerfed during development to make sure "bolt with a cantrip" wasn't good, to the point where the cost became hilariously high.
flamming gambit is good IMHO make a choice deck. Browbeat, Book Burning, Gifts Ungiven, Breaking Point, add some of those wormgorgers from Judgement.. its gets weird opponents go WTF is that deck.
I'm Shocked, blazed, Burn from Within, Burning Anger, Disintegrated, Starstorm...
I kinda like Liquid Fire; It's like Lava Axe that gains flexibility for one more mana. Doesn't make it a good card, but I'd certainly rather draft it.
I've seen liquid fire doing real work in an ink treader edh deck. I know that ink treader isnt legendary but it basically is so my play group allows it.
How bad can we make bolt till people stop playing it?
How did Hornet Sting not make it onto the list? It's a strictly worse Scorching Spear.
Its a fairly egregious color pie break, so the fact that its pretty bad is sorta negligible I guess
Scorching Spear is a fucking great name
Backdraft does half damage of a sorcery, to the caster of that sorcery, so if you try that combo of Eternal Flame-Backdraft... You cast the sorcery so Backdraft does that damage to YOU. Not your opponent.
Why are there 2 spells,both red and instant and the one deals 3 damage for 1 red mana and the other 4 damage for 3 generic and 2 red mana?!?!?
isn't eternal flame with tainted sigil combo is good with 5 mountain one plain one swamp you gain the 8 life back after eternal flame
What's with the Tombstone symbol next to Flaming Gambit's name?
Briefly, Wizards put a tombstone symbol on any card that did stuff from the graveyard. So everything with Flashback, creatures like Ichorid. I think it basically only lasted a year or two, though.
Ah, I see, thanks.
Backdraft is preeetty horrible but in a strange way seems to me to be the spell in this list with the highest potential. The fact only 2 people are playing it in edh is pretty sad. Why do I say this? Red board wipes. Too many people in your playgroup playing blasphemous act? 40cents seems pretty worth that one unforgettable time you play it.
and i wouldn't even put Flare in my Zada deck... what does that say?
I don't think Liquid Fire is quite bad enough to be in the bottom 10. It's definitely bad but Lava Axe is a playable card and this one "only" costs one more, gaining the split effect. I think Ember Shot is a lot more egregious of an overcosted burn.
I was most surprised not to see sizzle tbh.
Backdraft + Blasphemous Act = quite good....this card does so much in the right setup :3
This card does good things in just 2 cases: If the oponent casted blasphemous act or star of extinction and thats that. Maybe when someone shoots a huge fireball or something like that but you see these cards so rarely and the use of backdraft is SO narrow that in 99 out of 100 situations its just a bad dead card in your hand.
It certainly is kind of narrow BUT I still feel like it isn't as bad as other cards mentioned in the video.
The main reason for this is that every red edh deck plays at least one often even more damage based mass removal spells. At least in my experience. Those sorcerys can reach from Blasphemous Act to cards like Pyroclasm or Radiant Flames and even small numbers add up and can lead to a blow out.
Yes but i still would never play backdraft because you can in so few cases like blow your enemy away with backdraft but I guess other red staples would just be more often usable. Like a reverberate or reiterate with its buyback, gamble, some card draw and stuff.
Surprised lava axe isn't on here. My dumb kid brain crammed 4 in a deck back in the day, cause hey, that's 20 life! Not to mention it had a cool name and art.
Lava axe is overpriced for what it does but it's definitely limited playable. I remember a game at the m19 prerelease I played against a burn guy, and he finished me off with a topdecked lava axe to the face. It's good for that extra bit of damage you need to close off the game.
Eternal Flame is pretty playable in Neheb, the Eternal. Let's say you have 6 mountains and Neheb in Play. You cast it, deals 6 damage to an opponent, ping yourself for 3 and adds 6 red mana on your second mainphase. Giving you 8 mana to play around.
I mean, I know it's a bad card and that's a single EDHDeck, but weaker than Scorching Spear?
Hanabi blast was epic. Had a edh Deck with it
:D my favorit bad designed burn spell is still bee sting. The 4 mana green shock at sorcery speed.
I’d argue that eternal flame could be a good finisher in a red deck to get through the last amount of damage you need especially in edh because you’d end up with more mountains I’m guessing and could maybe get 6 or 7 damage in. Idk it’s not as bad as you said. I’m Goodnight
Just play one of the one million Blaze variants, they are all way better.
I sort of feel like Eternal Flame ought to be used more than some of the other cards. It is at least a game ender if nothing else in edh. 10 mountains is 10 damage, then 5 to you. Sure it wouldn't be competitive, but it's still a better burn spell than most of the cards on this list I think.
Flare is actually a good card mostly because of Ink Treader Nephilim, in a locust god meta 3 mana to wipe the board and draw your deck at istant speed is big money
Backdraft could be really good if it was any source. Especially against storm
Shower of sparks isn’t as bad anymore because it activates spectacle. scorching spear still sucks
WTF what was WOTC thinking when they costed Ember Shot at 7 mana??
I feel like Eternal Flame could have some potential in like a Gisela Blade of Goldknight deck, so long as you get enough lands to really support it o.o
She doesn't run enough mountains for it to be worth it
kinda surprised lava axe didn't make this list. I mean i guess it's 5 mana for 5 damage but still i could get the same ordeal with lightning bolt + shock for 3 less mana. Definitely think it should've been atleast number 10
Lava Axe has been a playable card in Limited aggro decks of the past for its reach. Not one most decks want, but saw some play. That's more than the cards on this list can say.
Some of the one mana spells/instants work well with red decks. Young pyromancer is a prime example
But why would you run any of these when they are like 50 better 1-2 mana burn spells. That means these are bad. If you are running these in Pyromancer, you're doin it wrong.
Surprised Thermal Blast didn't make the list. But most of these are about equally bad. Edit: Listened to the beginning of the video. I guess it's so bad it doesn't even qualify as a burn spell rofl.
Wait I’m confused, you say that you could use Backdraft after Eternal Flame to hit your opponent for half the damage you took from Eternal Flame, but Backdraft says the caster of the sorcery spell so you, as the caster of Eternal Flame, would be using Backdraft to damage yourself for half the damage you originally took from Eternal Flame
Yeah I was wrong, has been discussed at length in this very comment section!
Nizzahon Magic well, maybe adding a note to the video and/or into the description would help stop the comments? I was genuinely confused when you mentioned it in the vid and didn’t see any notes which is why I asked about it above.
I really wanna try that final combo now.