I worked in Cryogenics while in the Air Force. I have to say that I yelled"what are you doing" when you lit that torch..lol. Got me on that one. Thank you for sharing.
@MykeCollins first, thank you for your service! And yes, my jaw dropped and I was suddenly on the edge of my seat as I thought he was going to use a lit propane torch as the heat source, I should have known better! That was a funny attention grabber, I did not see that coming, I love this channel LOL
I would just invert the commercial propane tank and leave it in the sun (it can stay straight safely on a flat surface over the metal cylindrical surround where the handle is), and put *my own* empty tank in an ice bath. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!! I am an engineer and your ardent subscriber!!
Funny, I thought after all the shows I've seen him do... "well I guess he knows what he's doing.....he should probly have some glasses..oh, wait..okay he's joking"
I’ve worked with LP for over 20 years and evacuated many tanks in my career. Just invert the tank and for transfer without a pressure differential, lift the source tank over the tank you’re filling. We build “Gravity fill stations” that work this way. Of course it should be noted that it’s illegal to fill a cylinder with a product that it’s not rated to hold. Plus DOT cylinders are only good for 12 years after manufacture date and must be requalified after. Be safe out there, guys.
I love your sense of humor. When you had your torch in hand I really thought you were serious about heating up that can of propane. You got me LMAO 😂! I have had thoughts about transferring some propane into some of the tanks I own from one of the rental tanks so your tutorial is extremely helpful. Love your videos. Wish I could devote more time to them and hopefully I can in the future. Keep em coming!
Ya know, I really didn't care at all about how to do this... But I still watched it because your presentation is actually so good? I always have no choice but want to learn what it is you're teaching. Thanks!
$6/gal is absurd, but that's the price of the BBQ exchange it seems. For your projects, I would recommend getting a 100 lb DOT cylinder and filling it at your friendly local gas supplier for significantly less money. Then you have access to a dip tube and POL fittings that don't have an excess flow valve built in. For reference, the propane suppliers in my area are selling in bulk at $1.39/gal.
It's $4 a gallon for BBQ exchange at the local gas station, but everything seems to be cheaper in Tennessee. You have to pay up for the first tank though.
Could you turn the supply steel tank upside down? That would leave the vapour at the 'top' (bottom) and drive the liquid out of the valve directly? Great video though!!
1st,I would vacuum pump the CO2 tank & weigh it (for tare weight, or empty wt.) & connect transfer hose to both tanks). 2nd, chill it with cold water or ice. 3rd, heat the supply tank with hot water bath 4th, flip supply tank upside down, then open supply tank valve while it is upside down (so the overfill safety float will open). 5th, place CO2 tank on scale, open it's valve & fill to a Maximum of 80% of the CO2 tanks Liquid capacity (10 lbs, I think you said). Flip & Turn off the supply tank valve & CO2 tank valve & disconnect the hose. Done.
I like how you touch on the safety aspect of your projects. This way people attempting this after watching have an idea of how to proceed safely .. please keep doing what your doing !
Interesting way of transferring propane without inverting the tank or using a compressor. Though if you want to get things done faster, 100lb tanks still have the old-style POL valves and can be inverted to get liquid with no issues. Fun fact, here in Canada it's actually fairly common to heat the propane tank with a much larger tiger torch. When it's approaching -40 and the propane will barely boil, a short blast from the torch will bring the pressure up quick so you can get back to heating things that are frozen. The only real risk is heating the propane enough to pop the relief, which is not going to happen at -40.
The advantage of not inverting the tank is that you do not get as many impurities out of the tank. Because the fuel evaporates and comes out in vapor for instead of drawing liquid directly you wont get much of the methanol. However if you want the methanol in your tank then this may be a good thing. Depending on supplier you can end up with quite a bit of methanol in a 20lb tank over the years. Easy way to tell, turn it upside down and let just a little out from your hose onto the ground. If it does not evaporate its not propane. I fill my own manchester 1lb tanks with the 20lb upside dowm. and i always check first before filling them so i dont get half a quart of methanol in the little bottle.
I tried the method in this video with transferring 4 gallons of propane using very hot water in a tub on the tank that I wanted to empty and snow on the tank I was transferring the propane to. We had to change out the 5 gallons of hot water 5 times, and keep adding snow to the top of the recieving tank. This method is way better at transferring heat than transferring propane. The process took about an hour. Then for a second partial tank I wanted to transfer, I warmed it up and flipped it upside down before trying to transfer the propane and most of the liquid propane moved to the recieving tank in about 3 minutes. Then I flipped the tank back upright and warmed it with hot water and the remaining propane moved out in about 4 minutes. I recommend warming the tank you want the propane out of with hot water or sunlight and cooling the recieving tank with cold water or snow. Then, connecting the tanks then flipping the hot tank upside down and opening the valve on both. Continue to cool the recieving tank to keep the transfer going. Then when the tank is almost empty, turn it upright and set it in a bucket of hot water to get the last bit of the propane to transfer. When the recieving tank is cold and the giving tank is warm and feels empty when shook the transfer is complete and yo can turn both valves closed and disconnect.
Propane makes a good refrigerant as well, I've worked on commercial HVAC equipment for years. Have come across equipment utilizing not only Propane but Ammonia as a refrigerant. Dangerous but effective.
Worked with Ammonia refrigerant at an ice rink once, first thing you learned was how long you could hold your breath and how fast you could put on the Shelly (SCBA) rig
You can do the same in America, but it would be cheaper if you already have containers suited to be used for liquid propane to do it the way this guy did.
Thanks for video. On dip tube CO2 tank, would it make sense when finished to invert the tank and verify you get vapor out to be sure you have not overfilled the tank? If liquid, then I would assume, weigh it, assume full then bleed ~20% of weight?
$6/gallon?! Daaamn! I work with hot air balloons and last I remember it was around $3. Also, I believe you can flip the bbq tank upside down to get liquid to transfer instead of vapor.
Does this also work with Argon? I Have a 5 litre for tig welding on location and a 20 litre for in the workshop. the filling of the bottles is nearly as expensive for the two. Would be nice to be able to fill up the 5 litre one with the 20 litre one.
No. You can simply transfer the gas between tanks as we do all the time, but unless you have a liquid/vapor phase present at the temperatures you are working with, the effect that temperature will play in the movement of argon is negligible.
Although the speed of your growth has been/is astronomical, It's easy to see how you took this channel from zero to over 100k subs in less than a year... anyone who has the ability (might I say, Gift??? Lol) to captivate me enough to get me to not only voluntarily watch an entire 8 minute video about the transferring of propane from one cylinder to another (hahaha, funny to think about it when putv that way), but also come away from it satisfied and much more knowledgeable than before on the subject matter, truly has a gift, and the RUclips community had better watch out... AvE, he's gunnin for ya, and as much as I love ya, this guy just may end up being my new favorite... lol, bold statement, I know, and having nothing to do with this particular video, this just so happens to be where my thoughts met the keyboard... lol Cheers! Great stuff, TechiNgredients.Dad!
Thanks! I know you're joking, but Ave has nothing to fear from us. Nor do any of the tech channels that produce real and valuable content. However, despite their large head start, there are channels that produce videos only for the sake of producing videos and views rather than the subject matter. You hear excuses rather than solutions and learn little. We're coming ...
For the seals on the joiners, is there any preference between NBR and Neoprene? And what is the best Shore hardness of both types? I know Neoprene is often used in refrigeration, but NBR is also rated for LPG use.
Thanks for explaining this, I bought a second hand JPX T240 jet engine a few weeks back complete with a propane tank and cannot find much on the net on how to transfer liquid propane, I was always wondering if you simply just turned the tank upside down to get liquid across. When I get chance I'll film an engine run on my channel, I have quite a lot of model jet engine test runs on my channel throughout the years Paul
Most of the exchange propane tanks have an anti siphon valve that prevents all flow when inverted. Although you can get tanks designed to allow liquid transfer, there is a big advantage to the more time consuming method I demonstrated. Commercial propane is dirty, it contains other gasses like butane and even water. When it vaporizes, these components can freeze and block lines. By transfering a vapor, you are actually performing a purification step that leaves these low vapor pressure components behind.
would the hot water bath also work as a good method for refilling the coleman canisters and getting an easy full fill without having to put the green coleman canisters into the freezer to try to create the temperature difference that many say is required to fill the green canisters better but still isn't quite perfect?
The "attention keeper" with the blow torch was fun. :) I knew from the other videos of yours that you ain't possibly the guy that could even think of such a thing...😂
does the lpg vapor convert back to liquid in the co2 tank with out pumps or compressors? wouldn't it be easier to supply liquid to the destination tank and vent gas to allow quicker filling to take place? I need to do something similar and draw liquid from my house tank and fill a 60 gallon rv tank through the acme fill port.
It does convert back. The other advantage of this method is that it is effectivly a distillation. What is transferred is pure propane. Dirt, rust and heavy oils are left behind.
Since your video about hybrid jet I'm thinking about fueling it with some form of oil (filtered used vegetable oil etc). I know it will not be as easy as with propane, but what do you think about that?
We're going to try several fuels with the new jet including isopropyl alcohol, gasoline and diesel. If the diesel works then the oil should have a chance.
Is there a reason not to use forklift liquid withdrawal LP tanks? Fittings are readily available as are tanks which are normally stainless and quite rugged. Does an inverted BBQ cylinder not produce sufficient flow? If so the 40lb LP cylinders do not have OPD valves and flow many more CFM (welders commonly use those and the 100lb LP cylinders for cutting torch fuel) and like any cylinder are simple to invert for specialty use for example on a modified hand truck.
That is an option if you have convenient access to those cylinders. Flow rate isn't important, but many of these 20 lb cylinders incorporate an inversion check valve, and this thermal method overcomes that.
HE is correct the vast majority on exchange tanks at a 15 pound net weight. You will usually find this in the fine print. Tare weight is not what you are looking for at an exchange. Net weight is what you are looking for to indicate how much propane is in the cylinder. The good ones will be 20...most are 15.
thats how i fill my out of date lpg tank when shop refused to filled it i used a blow torch to heat tank up slowly,just use common sense and will be ok being doing this for 40 years still alive,safety is my number 1 priority
More plausible is propane transfer from a 20LB refillable tank (you can refill at UHaul stations and the like cheaper than at the exchange program), to a nonrefillable blue 14oz tall skinny cylinder / 1lb green Coleman fat cylinder. The small cylinder is safe and convenient for local work with a small torch, etc. But it costs too much to use often. So, you can either buy an adapter hose to connect a device made for 14oz cylinder to the 20lb tank, or fill up the 14oz cylinder. To fill it, I placed it in wife's freezer. She did find it there and had to inquire, of course. Then using a relatively cheap transfer hose you need to purchase, invert the 20lb and while the small cylinder is very cold, it will fill up pretty fast. In your situation, I wonder why you have not thought of suspesion-weighing the filling cylinder, from a scale / dial weight gauge. Just put the cylinder in a plastic bag, I suppose if the bag is strong enough and you put it at negligible height above soft surface (in case bag bursts), you might as well fill the plastic bag with cold water! NEVER HEARD of see-thru tank - thanks!
While I've never tried this, I've worked in the LPG (propane) industry for a few years. 1. For calculating volume, I believe it weighs 0.5kg per litre, but double check that. It's lighter than water, so don't assume 1kg = 1L! 2. Never fill above 80% capacity (as mentioned in the video), and ideally use another gas container that has a calibrated relief valve for safety. Overfilling these things is easy to do, and can have horrific results (pressure increases in the destination container when the water is turned off and temperature inevitably increases). NB: Just a thought - maybe turning the source container upside down would help accelerate the process? As that way you have liquid pouring directly out of the valve instead of vapour. Some countries have valves to prevent that, the US may be one of them but I'm not sure as I don't live there.
Many of the newer tanks in the US also have these anti siphon float valves. Another advantage of the slower vapor transfer method is that it acts as a purification step, leaving debris, water and low volatility oils behind.
so it is impractical to try to heat a 500 gallon supply tank, ambient temp are in the mid 60's F. Water temp for cooling are near 50. I'll be trying to fill a 60 gallon rv mounted tank via the acme fill connector. I don't have easy access to vapor but do have easy access to liquid, will this method work w/o other equipment?
You can transfer even with a 10 degree differential ( it may be easier at night), but it will be very slow if you do it like I did, as a vapor. Liquid transfer will be much faster, but you'll loose the phase transition purification advantage.
I would not mess around trying to heat one tank and cool another because, I do not know what I'm doing with trying to transfer gas from one tank to another. I get my tank filled at the commercial location where they have a multiple 1000 or more propane tank for transfer and they pump it into my little propane tank. Thanks for the video it was interesting.
So let me understand correctly , the vapour starts occurring at room temperatures and one atmosphere pressure, 14.69 psi , and will continue to 200 psi before going back to liquid . Will the propane completely empty under this condition ? Theoretically then we could use it to exchange one standard propane tank to another standard propane tank unless there is some mechanical design limitation ?
At room temperature, the gas exists in equilibrium with the liquid at approximately 125PSI. When both tanks are open to each other the only reason all the liquid remains in the first tank is that there is not even the tiny differential needed to lift it up out of one and into the other. The propane in the tanks has no connection or relationship to atmospheric pressure and the process we demonstrated could be accomplished in a complete vacuum or deep under water.
You said the propane tank was designed to boil the liquid off rather than supply the liquid , isn't it just relying on vapour pressure sitting above liquid to output the gas with a high pick up ? If the tank is turned upside down would the propane tank still emit gas and be operational ?
forklift cylinders use a liquid out on the service valve. you can get them in aluminum. Most DOT cylinders have a tare weight stamped on the collar which makes it easy to determine how much liquid you have in the tank. typical bbq cylinders are called 20 lbs cylinders. propane liquid weighs 4.2 lbs per gallon. Propane cylinders are filled to 85% of their capacity, this is for expansion. 85% of 5 gallons =4.25 gallons x 4.2=17.85 lbs of propane when 20 lb cylinder is full minus the weight of the empty tank. to check how many gallons of liquid propane is in any cylinder find it's tare weight on the collar. It'll say something like 5.6 TARE. This means the cylinder weighs 5.6 lbs. when totally empty. lets say your cylinder weighs 16 lbs. subtract 5.6 (tare weight) from the scale reading of 16 lbs=10.4 divide this by 4.25 lbs per gallon of propane=2.45 gallons of propane left in your 20 lb. bbq cylinder. BTW propane is NOT considered a high pressure gas, such as compressed oxygen, argon etc. Tank pressures on any propane vessel no matter its size will only be around 90 psi on a mild summer day and around 110-120 psi if the tank has been sitting outside even in the sun. Propane liguid expands when it warms up. How do I know this? I worked i the propane industry for 15 years. Don't paint your propane tanks flat black or any dark color, there's a reason they're all white or silver.
Thank you so much for your very very nifty knowledge! I love sharing your videos with my teenagers. I'm wondering if I could get a downloaded copy of your brain? (JK). I second what many others have said, in complete agreement with them, your channel is highly underrated. You obviously have worked incredibly hard at acquiring and mastering STEM -- well done! 🙌🙌😄
Use refrigerant recovery machine to transfer propane. Propane is just like any other refrigerants, actually, there are some medical equipment that use a blend of propane and some other gases as refrigerant.
Cody from Cody's Lab did this same kind of gas transfer with halon in a fire extinguisher, but he used dry ice to get the temperature differential. And you *can* see the level of the liquid in the metal container. You remember you have a thermal camera, right? Great channel, BTW. I am jealous of your lab. I only have a very messy Ikea table with lots of junk on it.
Thanks! I saw that video. The advantage of using the smaller temperature gradient is that it is nearly free. And, if you're patient, it will produce the same transfer only slower. Also, a translucent, fiberglass tank would be better for monitoring the propane level.
This is a very useful tip. thanks a lot for putting in the time and the effort to spread the knowledge. i am going to use this tip to transfer the propane from a similar type of cylinder to a smaller one that I use with the hand torch. Great Work!!
Applied thermodynamics! I used to use this trick to charge Freon into my car air conditioner (back when it was legal to do so). Charging liquid was dangerous to the compressor, if I just used a pan of hot water to immerse the Freon can I could charge gas and still be done quickly. That always scared my neighbor, but hot water was not enough to explode a Freon can. I did NOT resort to fire, I see you didn't either.
Several of the hardware stores 'round here (flatlands of NH) refill 20lb tanks for ~$11 (vs. $19.95 for the big box store exchange stuff), and the guys I know don't check anything, if they know you. And, yes, if you can get a forklift tank cheap, those usually have the dual exit for liquid or gas.
No. Most modern propane tanks have an anti-siphon float valve that stops all flow, liquid and gas, when the tank is inverted. One exception is the propane tank used on vehicles such as fork lifts.
@@TechIngredients Interesting. I just watched a video of a guy inverting a 20 lb tank to illegally fill disposable 1 lb tanks. It seemed to work fine. Maybe it was the magic of RUclips. From what I know on the float, it floats UP on an upright tank to stop the overfilling of the tank. When the tank is inverted, the float would float up, which would be down if the tank was upright and allow propane liquid out. I guess you could use a 100 lb tank which is not subject to the government mandated valves.
Hello, i have a burning question: wat if you put the propane tank upsidedown then you should get to transfer liquid propane, right? I am no expert! Greetings,, Kitty.
Many, although not all of these smaller tanks are constructed with "anti-siphon" valves that stop all flow when inverted. These tanks are becoming more prevalent.
I refill the small camping bottles from commercial cylinders, with the little adapter they sell at Harbor Freight, never had any issue with the anti-siphon device. Maybe I'm just lucky.
@@kengamble8595 Do you freeze the green canisters or just invert the source tank? I've seen where they say you need to freeze the green tank to be able to get them to full. Likely similar to the temperature difference required to make it transfer he was talking about. It looks like it would be much easier to do the 100 degree water bath than find space for 5-10 green canisters. Then, the biggest thing would be calculating the 80% full weight.
My dad converted an old pickup to propane in the early 90's. We had a fueling station you could just drive into to tank up. He would drive for months on a 150 gallon tank for like 50 bucks. It was like 35 cents a gallon. Why did it increase in price so rapidly compared to other fuels?
It didn't, the exchange programs are a great way to rip people off. I used to work for Tractor Supply and they sell propane marked up a few cents a gallon and they fill whatever you bring that's legal. I would suggest getting cylinders filled rather than exchanging them simply because of the cost.
Yep. It's a riff on the bottled water scam basically. I've never done an exchange thing. I've always just gone to the local propane place, and filled it up. They have trucks that go to people's house's too, and fill up the big tanks people have outside their homes. Ain't no natural gas lines out in the boonies, ya'll.
Small cylinders are expensive per kilo, but the bigger ones are a lot cheaper. I just use 9kg cylinders, as they are a convenient size to handle, and made a transfer tube out of 2 of the flex hoses used to connect them to manifolds. A simple adaptor from the 9kg bullnose to the small cylinder thread ( off the shelf at the gas supply place as well) and just turn the big cylinder on it's side to get faster fill, then turn upright for the last half kilo or so of gas to clear the liquid out of the pipes. Helps here that the LPG price is regulated on the big cylinders, but not on the small ones, so instead of paying almost the price of the 9kg for a 3kg refill I get 2 out of the big one, and then use the rest as usual. Could also use 14 or 19kg cylinders, but they are inconvenient to move. As well the price rose rapidly because of demand, LPG used to be a low use item, most refineries would use it as process heat internally, selling off a little at a loss for gas, or flaring it off. Then they started using it as feedstock for plastic production, and demand rose rapidly, so the price for the gas rose, and refineries started making money off it, plus people moved away from heavy fuel oil heaters to gas heaters.
Lol... you had me fooled for a bit when you pulled the blowtorch. This is a pretty good method, actually. Gentle temperature gradients removed from actual flames are very good for a number of processes. That said, This liquid propane system needs a moisture trap. Liquid propane isn't used more often specifically because of the trouble in keeping moisture and humidity out of those systems and the troubles that they can cause. A propane gas system freezes the water into place at the top of the liquid/gas interface, but the pressure gradient between gas and liquid stops the moisture from forming a solid plug. A riser tube, such as is used in most liquid delivery systems, does not have this advantage. If a riser tube freezes, a solid plug can be a serious problem. This is actually why NASA has stopped using liquid propane in many systems. If you're using a liquid propane system, you have to account for the differences in the "Dryness" of the propane because commercial suppliers catering to residential consumers, do not account for this difference. In fact, doing so would cut into their underlying profit margin because it would be an extra step in processing and storing said propane. Using an adsorbent, like silica gel, is a pretty cheap and easy means of compensating for the lack of "Dryness" in the commercial source. The only issue with doing so is an exposure time required for most adsorbents to remove a percentage of water from the propane, but increasing the length of tubing filled with adsorbent should be sufficient. Also... note: absorbent =/= adsorbent. two distinct things... just so i'm clear on that....
I do transfers all the time, I just turn the full cylinder upside down and it transfers liquid, just vent the filling tank via its bleed valve. No water or heating
After 18 years with the same supplier, I switched to AmeriGas. Got a nice new shiney 250 gallon tank and hopefully what will be less expensive propane. The price of propane has become a somewhat expensive locally. Digging out my transfer apparatus, too. Even the small Coleman bottles have been running about $5 each, they can be refilled for much less.
@@TechIngredients All my 20 lb tanks empty liquid propane with no issue when inverted. I've done it dozens of times. I know there is a float inside, but I believe it has another function. I really enjoy your content by the way.
Don't know if you care at this point. But two things: 1.) You can get liquid service from a forklift cylinder. 2.) You can get propane a LOT cheaper by the gallon. Tractor Supply and Costco both will sell for not even half of what you quoted.
In India they have propane tanks that have a exit hole on top, so you can join two tanks one on top of the other upside down and they have a 10 inch pipe you put between them. So the propane will transfer from the top tank to the bottom tank, without any heating or pumping. This way poor people can share Propane between neighbors.
You're right. I wouldn't have done this before because it seemed too far afield from the applications for the propane ie the engines. However, we intend to use large quantities of liquid propane and the fiberglass tanks are the best for this. As we will have to modify these for liquid extraction, the teardown and the components could be covered in a video.
Your point is a good one and for another reason as well. It is never a good idea to fill a closed container with a flamible gas when there is oxygen in there just waiting to mate.
I really enjoy watching your videos. Quick correction, you are trans filling into a 20# CO2 tank, not a 10#, as mentioned at the tail end of your video. Keep sharing your experiments.
Quick note about the exchange tanks. I have 3 places in town to fill my bbq tank. 2 of them actually have the proper fill station and the other is Walmart "exchange" anywho. For years I used the first proper fill station same guy would fill it everytime I'd hand him the tank he would hook up that very inflexible fill hose set it on the scale turn it on then open the bleeder screw, fill it up proper. Well one day I go in too get tank filled and a new guy fills my tank he didn't open the bleeder screw ( didn't notice we were talking ) A few bbqs later (ribs) i was out. Took it in too have it filled same thing. I was running out quickly. Even worse with the exchanged tanks wouldn't last very long. Meanwhile a new business started and installed a propane fill station. So I went there instead of exchange. This guy filled my tank I noticed he opened the bleeder screw. Then it dawned on me the place I had been going to for years when the new guy was trained from lack of paying attention or lazy or just wasn't told to do so wasn't opening the bleeder screw. My point is if you take your tank to have it filled make sure they open the bleeder screw. I'd say you lose 1/4 or a 1/3 of the tanks capacity if they don't open the bleeder screw. The exchange tanks were even worse and the price was even more. So 4 years ago I found myself broke down near Dayton Ohio. The company that brokers my work for me had an office there so they let me tow my vehicle to there yard. When I got there I noticed a ton of these propane exchange tanks. Next day I asked they said they sublease part of the property to a exchange company. Later on of the drivers was loading unloading his truck I asked who fills the tanks he said we do, I said do you open the bleeder valves he said hell no, I can fill more tanks faster by not opening them, he said. He also said if he were to fill all the tanks he wouldn't be able to fill his truck all the way up. So there ya have it. The exchange ranks don't fill them up all the way, so they can move more tanks. I did take the time to run some quick numbers. It seemed like I said they were cheating us out of 1/4 or 1/3 of the propane we paid for.
So if he wasn't opening the vent valve, how was he determining that the tank was full? That's how my tanks have always been filled - fill until liquid comes out of the vent.
although the tank was set on a scale, it likely never reached full weight but stopped going into the tank because of the pressure(or area taken up by compressed air). If the tank is normally vented while filling then there needn't be much pressure to push the liquid in. As such, if it's not vented, that minimum pressure pushing the liquid will only push/compress the full volume of air so far. Gas compresses, liquid does not, so there would be some amount of compressed air in there not allowing that volume to fill with liquid propane.
I haven't used it in a while, but the commercial 20 lb propane cylinder exchange path is a rip off. Slightly more expensive than getting your own cylinder refilled, and very convenient, but they often, if not always, only fill the tank with 16 lbs or so. BT Dubs, don't forget to label and purge the receiving tank. From when I filled tanks many years ago, new propane cylinders arrived pressurized with something other than propane. If it wasn't purged it would interfere with the burners' operation. Different case here with the CO2 bottle, especially after the first use and you're just refilling. Also BT dubs, since you've got extreme vacuum technology, why not purge and then draw down the receiving tank substantially (don't crush it!), then invert the source tank in the warm water bath. Purge the hose. You should be able to skip the garden hose cooling and just leave the receiving tank on the scale. Just crack the source tank valve open and watch the scale indication so you don't over fill. Typical LP tanks do have a draw straw that goes down from the tank's valve at the top, but that straw doesn't go all the way to the bottom, so it's of little use for getting liquid propane without inverting the propane tank. It's supposed to go down about 20% of the liquid volume of the tank from the top. This straw is on a separate smaller circuit from the main valve, and has its own tiny valve
lol, I was sitting there and like halfway through I was like wait, didnt I just watch cody do this. I actually think its cool to come from different source because not only do you get people like us getting a little quiz to prove you knew it, but also you get a confirmation that this works with multiple things, multiple ways.
Well, he was outside and frankly in terms of halon the point is it's no longer in mass production, that was the dangerous bit. Old extinguishers and sprays are lying around leaking halon all the time but we've pretty much stopped production of any new halon that would find its way into the atmosphere. The danger there was the possibility of explosion (which would probably just punch a hole in one of the tubes or valves and not the tank itself) He's done MUCH more dangerous stuff than that (like handling supercritical CO2 in a vial which he sealed himself)
I’m confused, if all you wanted was the liquid instead of the gas vapour, wouldn’t it be easiest to just flip your 20lb tank on its head? Would do the same as having a dip tube, simply takes gas liquid from a low pickup point in the tank..
Need a siphon? uhh, no. I transfer liquid out of a 20# OPD tank all the time. just flip it upside down. you only need a couple degreess of delta T between containers to push a whole tank easily. I also have CO2 tanks and transfill from them into paintball tanks, etc... same thing. doesn't take much.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked in Cryogenics while in the Air Force. I have to say that I yelled"what are you doing" when you lit that torch..lol. Got me on that one. Thank you for sharing.
I'm glad I got your attention. Thanks for your service as well.
@MykeCollins first, thank you for your service! And yes, my jaw dropped and I was suddenly on the edge of my seat as I thought he was going to use a lit propane torch as the heat source, I should have known better! That was a funny attention grabber, I did not see that coming, I love this channel LOL
Ernest G. Wilson II I know..i found this channel on accident. Best accident I've had on You Tube. Lol!
I've seen roofers do that a lot, just hit the bottle with the torch for a sec to make it stop sputtering.
@@ColtaineCrows yep, we do that a lot in Russia)) But we do this everyday, when propane ending. And in cold weather.
This is one of the most underrated channels on RUclips, love your work!
*father and son walking through the woods*
It's time that we have... "the talk", son.
Yes, Dad?
We need to talk about... propane.
Fuel, and Pulsejets and turbines, oh my..
And propane accessories.
Is it wrong that I read this in the voice of Hank Hill?
Kson Ilime Propane
@@mfx1 that boy ain't right.
I would just invert the commercial propane tank and leave it in the sun (it can stay straight safely on a flat surface over the metal cylindrical surround where the handle is), and put *my own* empty tank in an ice bath. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!! I am an engineer and your ardent subscriber!!
Thanks!
Generally, you can't. These modern tanks contain an inversion float valve that stops all flow when the tank is inverted.
Not gonna lie, my eyes got big when you fired off that torch, LOL!
Dude! No doubt.
"No way!" 😳
I was also about to exclaim out loud :D
No problem as long as you keep moving the flame on the steel .
Funny, I thought after all the shows I've seen him do... "well I guess he knows what he's doing.....he should probly have some glasses..oh, wait..okay he's joking"
I’ve worked with LP for over 20 years and evacuated many tanks in my career. Just invert the tank and for transfer without a pressure differential, lift the source tank over the tank you’re filling. We build “Gravity fill stations” that work this way. Of course it should be noted that it’s illegal to fill a cylinder with a product that it’s not rated to hold. Plus DOT cylinders are only good for 12 years after manufacture date and must be requalified after. Be safe out there, guys.
The check valve in these tanks prevents all flow, gas and liquid when they are inverted.
@@TechIngredients touché. I didn’t factor in the OPD. Thank you, sir. I do dig the vaporization/reliquification demo!
I love your sense of humor. When you had your torch in hand I really thought you were serious about heating up that can of propane. You got me LMAO 😂! I have had thoughts about transferring some propane into some of the tanks I own from one of the rental tanks so your tutorial is extremely helpful. Love your videos. Wish I could devote more time to them and hopefully I can in the future. Keep em coming!
Thanks!
This is the Bill Nye we need. I hope you make many more videos, and I have enjoyed each one of them thoroughly.
Thank you, that's nice to hear. We have several in the works with one to post tomorrow and literally dozens outlined. Keep watching.
Ya know, I really didn't care at all about how to do this... But I still watched it because your presentation is actually so good? I always have no choice but want to learn what it is you're teaching. Thanks!
$6/gal is absurd, but that's the price of the BBQ exchange it seems. For your projects, I would recommend getting a 100 lb DOT cylinder and filling it at your friendly local gas supplier for significantly less money. Then you have access to a dip tube and POL fittings that don't have an excess flow valve built in. For reference, the propane suppliers in my area are selling in bulk at $1.39/gal.
Yup, whole fill on a BBQ tank here in Montana is $8.
It's $4 a gallon for BBQ exchange at the local gas station, but everything seems to be cheaper in Tennessee. You have to pay up for the first tank though.
Yeah depends on the state I can 300 gallons at a time and it's around $4 a gallon... Insane
Nj is $3.79 per gallon propane at the refill bulk company in town . Yeah I know nj is stupid expensive on everything
Could you turn the supply steel tank upside down? That would leave the vapour at the 'top' (bottom) and drive the liquid out of the valve directly? Great video though!!
yes have done that many times without a problem keeping in mind NOT to overfill the "empty" cylinder
@@willrobbinson how could the empty tank get overfilled if transfering from an upside-down source rank?
drevilatwork using a larger supply tank
I wondered about this too
1st,I would vacuum pump the CO2 tank & weigh it (for tare weight, or empty wt.) & connect transfer hose to both tanks). 2nd, chill it with cold water or ice. 3rd, heat the supply tank with hot water bath 4th, flip supply tank upside down, then open supply tank valve while it is upside down (so the overfill safety float will open). 5th, place CO2 tank on scale, open it's valve & fill to a Maximum of 80% of the CO2 tanks Liquid capacity (10 lbs, I think you said). Flip & Turn off the supply tank valve & CO2 tank valve & disconnect the hose. Done.
His face when he said, "Just kidding," made my day more tolerable.
I like how you touch on the safety aspect of your projects. This way people attempting this after watching have an idea of how to proceed safely .. please keep doing what your doing !
Interesting way of transferring propane without inverting the tank or using a compressor. Though if you want to get things done faster, 100lb tanks still have the old-style POL valves and can be inverted to get liquid with no issues.
Fun fact, here in Canada it's actually fairly common to heat the propane tank with a much larger tiger torch. When it's approaching -40 and the propane will barely boil, a short blast from the torch will bring the pressure up quick so you can get back to heating things that are frozen. The only real risk is heating the propane enough to pop the relief, which is not going to happen at -40.
How about using the regular propane tank upside down so you get liquid propane out? Is there a safety built to prevent this?
Tiberiu Nicolae No the OPD valve dose NOT stop the liquid propane from flowing when inverted. I do it all the time.
The advantage of not inverting the tank is that you do not get as many impurities out of the tank. Because the fuel evaporates and comes out in vapor for instead of drawing liquid directly you wont get much of the methanol. However if you want the methanol in your tank then this may be a good thing. Depending on supplier you can end up with quite a bit of methanol in a 20lb tank over the years.
Easy way to tell, turn it upside down and let just a little out from your hose onto the ground. If it does not evaporate its not propane. I fill my own manchester 1lb tanks with the 20lb upside dowm. and i always check first before filling them so i dont get half a quart of methanol in the little bottle.
This is the 2nd vid of yours that I have watched and I just about lost my mind when you fired up the propane torch to warm the tank!!
Thank you,I have a lot of crazy ideas like many of the people on the internet.I always watch your videos before trying it myself
I tried the method in this video with transferring 4 gallons of propane using very hot water in a tub on the tank that I wanted to empty and snow on the tank I was transferring the propane to. We had to change out the 5 gallons of hot water 5 times, and keep adding snow to the top of the recieving tank. This method is way better at transferring heat than transferring propane. The process took about an hour.
Then for a second partial tank I wanted to transfer, I warmed it up and flipped it upside down before trying to transfer the propane and most of the liquid propane moved to the recieving tank in about 3 minutes. Then I flipped the tank back upright and warmed it with hot water and the remaining propane moved out in about 4 minutes.
I recommend warming the tank you want the propane out of with hot water or sunlight and cooling the recieving tank with cold water or snow. Then, connecting the tanks then flipping the hot tank upside down and opening the valve on both. Continue to cool the recieving tank to keep the transfer going. Then when the tank is almost empty, turn it upright and set it in a bucket of hot water to get the last bit of the propane to transfer. When the recieving tank is cold and the giving tank is warm and feels empty when shook the transfer is complete and yo can turn both valves closed and disconnect.
Flipping the tank can work, but not with these and some others because of an anti siphon valve that prevents all flow when inverted.
Can you please do a video about Propane Accessories?
Propane makes a good refrigerant as well, I've worked on commercial HVAC equipment for years. Have come across equipment utilizing not only Propane but Ammonia as a refrigerant. Dangerous but effective.
Worked with Ammonia refrigerant at an ice rink once, first thing you learned was how long you could hold your breath and how fast you could put on the Shelly (SCBA) rig
idk about states but in europe you can buy propane cyliders with tube inside used in propane powered forklifts, or just turn the cylider upside down.
You can do the same in America, but it would be cheaper if you already have containers suited to be used for liquid propane to do it the way this guy did.
I dont want to transfer propane. I love the simple science and logic. well done
Thanks!
A modern day mr wizard. About time someone we can trust. Great speaker idea 💡
Thanks!
Tech Ingredients I’m a new subscriber. Now I have to start from the beginning and watch all of your videos. I love this stuff.
I have three commercial propane tanks that have 5-10 lbs of propane inside. Could i use this system to dump all the propane into one tank?
Yes.
Thanks for video. On dip tube CO2 tank, would it make sense when finished to invert the tank and verify you get vapor out to be sure you have not overfilled the tank? If liquid, then I would assume, weigh it, assume full then bleed ~20% of weight?
That's true.
$6/gallon?! Daaamn! I work with hot air balloons and last I remember it was around $3.
Also, I believe you can flip the bbq tank upside down to get liquid to transfer instead of vapor.
Does this also work with Argon? I Have a 5 litre for tig welding on location and a 20 litre for in the workshop. the filling of the bottles is nearly as expensive for the two. Would be nice to be able to fill up the 5 litre one with the 20 litre one.
No. You can simply transfer the gas between tanks as we do all the time, but unless you have a liquid/vapor phase present at the temperatures you are working with, the effect that temperature will play in the movement of argon is negligible.
Thanks for the information!
I thought you'd use a water bath to create the temp differential...
You grabbed the torch, which had me laughing aloud.
Thanks for the humorous touch!
I am amazed at how few King of the hill based comments there are among the current 305 comments. Would seem the demographics don't overlap much.
Although the speed of your growth has been/is astronomical, It's easy to see how you took this channel from zero to over 100k subs in less than a year... anyone who has the ability (might I say, Gift??? Lol) to captivate me enough to get me to not only voluntarily watch an entire 8 minute video about the transferring of propane from one cylinder to another (hahaha, funny to think about it when putv that way), but also come away from it satisfied and much more knowledgeable than before on the subject matter, truly has a gift, and the RUclips community had better watch out... AvE, he's gunnin for ya, and as much as I love ya, this guy just may end up being my new favorite... lol, bold statement, I know, and having nothing to do with this particular video, this just so happens to be where my thoughts met the keyboard... lol
Cheers!
Great stuff, TechiNgredients.Dad!
Thanks!
I know you're joking, but Ave has nothing to fear from us. Nor do any of the tech channels that produce real and valuable content. However, despite their large head start, there are channels that produce videos only for the sake of producing videos and views rather than the subject matter. You hear excuses rather than solutions and learn little. We're coming ...
@@TechIngredients love it! Keep em comin and I'll keep watching, learning and experimenting myself! Happy holidays in the meantime!
For the seals on the joiners, is there any preference between NBR and Neoprene? And what is the best Shore hardness of both types? I know Neoprene is often used in refrigeration, but NBR is also rated for LPG use.
Thanks for explaining this, I bought a second hand JPX T240 jet engine a few weeks back complete with a propane tank and cannot find much on the net on how to transfer liquid propane, I was always wondering if you simply just turned the tank upside down to get liquid across.
When I get chance I'll film an engine run on my channel, I have quite a lot of model jet engine test runs on my channel throughout the years
Paul
Most of the exchange propane tanks have an anti siphon valve that prevents all flow when inverted. Although you can get tanks designed to allow liquid transfer, there is a big advantage to the more time consuming method I demonstrated. Commercial propane is dirty, it contains other gasses like butane and even water. When it vaporizes, these components can freeze and block lines. By transfering a vapor, you are actually performing a purification step that leaves these low vapor pressure components behind.
that reminded me of the people quickly walking away when we would warm nitrous oxide bottles with a torch at the drag races when I was a kid.
Is there any advantage to turning the supplying tank upside down?
In some cases, yes. Other tanks include an anti siphon valve that prevents all flow when the tank is inverted.
would the hot water bath also work as a good method for refilling the coleman canisters and getting an easy full fill without having to put the green coleman canisters into the freezer to try to create the temperature difference that many say is required to fill the green canisters better but still isn't quite perfect?
Really cool seeing a project's background details like this.
very well explained lady propane needs a lot of respect.......
The "attention keeper" with the blow torch was fun. :)
I knew from the other videos of yours that you ain't possibly the guy that could even think of such a thing...😂
does the lpg vapor convert back to liquid in the co2 tank with out pumps or compressors? wouldn't it be easier to supply liquid to the destination tank and vent gas to allow quicker filling to take place? I need to do something similar and draw liquid from my house tank and fill a 60 gallon rv tank through the acme fill port.
It does convert back. The other advantage of this method is that it is effectivly a distillation. What is transferred is pure propane. Dirt, rust and heavy oils are left behind.
Since your video about hybrid jet I'm thinking about fueling it with some form of oil (filtered used vegetable oil etc). I know it will not be as easy as with propane, but what do you think about that?
We're going to try several fuels with the new jet including isopropyl alcohol, gasoline and diesel. If the diesel works then the oil should have a chance.
Good, can't wait :).
Is there a reason not to use forklift liquid withdrawal LP tanks? Fittings are readily available as are tanks which are normally stainless and quite rugged.
Does an inverted BBQ cylinder not produce sufficient flow? If so the 40lb LP cylinders do not have OPD valves and flow many more CFM (welders commonly use those and the 100lb LP cylinders for cutting torch fuel) and like any cylinder are simple to invert for specialty use for example on a modified hand truck.
That is an option if you have convenient access to those cylinders.
Flow rate isn't important, but many of these 20 lb cylinders incorporate an inversion check valve, and this thermal method overcomes that.
BTW Those 20lb tanks are now 15lb tanks for the same price at the "big box stores"
Not true, maybe some yes but, you need to look and make sure the T.W. Tare Weight says usually around 19.5 or 18 or 21lbs before buying one.
HE is correct the vast majority on exchange tanks at a 15 pound net weight. You will usually find this in the fine print. Tare weight is not what you are looking for at an exchange. Net weight is what you are looking for to indicate how much propane is in the cylinder. The good ones will be 20...most are 15.
thats how i fill my out of date lpg tank when shop refused to filled it i used a blow torch to heat tank up slowly,just use common sense and will be ok being doing this for 40 years still alive,safety is my number 1 priority
More plausible is propane transfer from a 20LB refillable tank (you can refill at UHaul stations and the like cheaper than at the exchange program), to a nonrefillable blue 14oz tall skinny cylinder / 1lb green Coleman fat cylinder. The small cylinder is safe and convenient for local work with a small torch, etc. But it costs too much to use often. So, you can either buy an adapter hose to connect a device made for 14oz cylinder to the 20lb tank, or fill up the 14oz cylinder. To fill it, I placed it in wife's freezer. She did find it there and had to inquire, of course. Then using a relatively cheap transfer hose you need to purchase, invert the 20lb and while the small cylinder is very cold, it will fill up pretty fast.
In your situation, I wonder why you have not thought of suspesion-weighing the filling cylinder, from a scale / dial weight gauge. Just put the cylinder in a plastic bag, I suppose if the bag is strong enough and you put it at negligible height above soft surface (in case bag bursts), you might as well fill the plastic bag with cold water!
NEVER HEARD of see-thru tank - thanks!
While I've never tried this, I've worked in the LPG (propane) industry for a few years.
1. For calculating volume, I believe it weighs 0.5kg per litre, but double check that. It's lighter than water, so don't assume 1kg = 1L!
2. Never fill above 80% capacity (as mentioned in the video), and ideally use another gas container that has a calibrated relief valve for safety. Overfilling these things is easy to do, and can have horrific results (pressure increases in the destination container when the water is turned off and temperature inevitably increases).
NB: Just a thought - maybe turning the source container upside down would help accelerate the process? As that way you have liquid pouring directly out of the valve instead of vapour. Some countries have valves to prevent that, the US may be one of them but I'm not sure as I don't live there.
Many of the newer tanks in the US also have these anti siphon float valves. Another advantage of the slower vapor transfer method is that it acts as a purification step, leaving debris, water and low volatility oils behind.
so it is impractical to try to heat a 500 gallon supply tank, ambient temp are in the mid 60's F. Water temp for cooling are near 50. I'll be trying to fill a 60 gallon rv mounted tank via the acme fill connector. I don't have easy access to vapor but do have easy access to liquid, will this method work w/o other equipment?
You can transfer even with a 10 degree differential ( it may be easier at night), but it will be very slow if you do it like I did, as a vapor. Liquid transfer will be much faster, but you'll loose the phase transition purification advantage.
You're awesome your like a walking encyclopedia full of knowledge.
Thanks!
I would not mess around trying to heat one tank and cool another because, I do not know what I'm doing with trying to transfer gas from one tank to another. I get my tank filled at the commercial location where they have a multiple 1000 or more propane tank for transfer and they pump it into my little propane tank. Thanks for the video it was interesting.
So let me understand correctly , the vapour starts occurring at room temperatures and one atmosphere pressure, 14.69 psi , and will continue to 200 psi before going back to liquid . Will the propane completely empty under this condition ? Theoretically then we could use it to exchange one standard propane tank to another standard propane tank unless there is some mechanical design limitation ?
At room temperature, the gas exists in equilibrium with the liquid at approximately 125PSI. When both tanks are open to each other the only reason all the liquid remains in the first tank is that there is not even the tiny differential needed to lift it up out of one and into the other. The propane in the tanks has no connection or relationship to atmospheric pressure and the process we demonstrated could be accomplished in a complete vacuum or deep under water.
You said the propane tank was designed to boil the liquid off rather than supply the liquid , isn't it just relying on vapour pressure sitting above liquid to output the gas with a high pick up ? If the tank is turned upside down would the propane tank still emit gas and be operational ?
There is an anti siphon valve in these tanks that stops ALL flow when inverted.
How do you know if a co2 tank has that dip tube
It is specified by the manufacturer.
forklift cylinders use a liquid out on the service valve. you can get them in aluminum. Most DOT cylinders have a tare weight stamped on the collar which makes it easy to determine how much liquid you have in the tank. typical bbq cylinders are called 20 lbs cylinders. propane liquid weighs 4.2 lbs per gallon. Propane cylinders are filled to 85% of their capacity, this is for expansion. 85% of 5 gallons =4.25 gallons x 4.2=17.85 lbs of propane when 20 lb cylinder is full minus the weight of the empty tank. to check how many gallons of liquid propane is in any cylinder find it's tare weight on the collar. It'll say something like 5.6 TARE. This means the cylinder weighs 5.6 lbs. when totally empty. lets say your cylinder weighs 16 lbs. subtract 5.6 (tare weight) from the scale reading of 16 lbs=10.4 divide this by 4.25 lbs per gallon of propane=2.45 gallons of propane left in your 20 lb. bbq cylinder. BTW propane is NOT considered a high pressure gas, such as compressed oxygen, argon etc. Tank pressures on any propane vessel no matter its size will only be around 90 psi on a mild summer day and around 110-120 psi if the tank has been sitting outside even in the sun. Propane liguid expands when it warms up.
How do I know this? I worked i the propane industry for 15 years. Don't paint your propane tanks flat black or any dark color, there's a reason they're all white or silver.
Thank you so much for your very very nifty knowledge! I love sharing your videos with my teenagers. I'm wondering if I could get a downloaded copy of your brain? (JK). I second what many others have said, in complete agreement with them, your channel is highly underrated. You obviously have worked incredibly hard at acquiring and mastering STEM -- well done! 🙌🙌😄
Use refrigerant recovery machine to transfer propane. Propane is just like any other refrigerants, actually, there are some medical equipment that use a blend of propane and some other gases as refrigerant.
Cody from Cody's Lab did this same kind of gas transfer with halon in a fire extinguisher, but he used dry ice to get the temperature differential. And you *can* see the level of the liquid in the metal container. You remember you have a thermal camera, right? Great channel, BTW. I am jealous of your lab. I only have a very messy Ikea table with lots of junk on it.
Thanks!
I saw that video. The advantage of using the smaller temperature gradient is that it is nearly free. And, if you're patient, it will produce the same transfer only slower. Also, a translucent, fiberglass tank would be better for monitoring the propane level.
This is a very useful tip. thanks a lot for putting in the time and the effort to spread the knowledge. i am going to use this tip to transfer the propane from a similar type of cylinder to a smaller one that I use with the hand torch. Great Work!!
Hi Would you like to test propane refill hose with adapter ?
Applied thermodynamics! I used to use this trick to charge Freon into my car air conditioner (back when it was legal to do so). Charging liquid was dangerous to the compressor, if I just used a pan of hot water to immerse the Freon can I could charge gas and still be done quickly. That always scared my neighbor, but hot water was not enough to explode a Freon can. I did NOT resort to fire, I see you didn't either.
Got a huge laugh out of the gag!
Love your work.
do you have a link to a suitable composite tank?
Several of the hardware stores 'round here (flatlands of NH) refill 20lb tanks for ~$11 (vs. $19.95 for the big box store exchange stuff), and the guys I know don't check anything, if they know you.
And, yes, if you can get a forklift tank cheap, those usually have the dual exit for liquid or gas.
That's good to know.
Can you not just use gravity to move the liquid? Turn the 20 lb tank upside down and hold it above the receiving tank?
No. Most modern propane tanks have an anti-siphon float valve that stops all flow, liquid and gas, when the tank is inverted. One exception is the propane tank used on vehicles such as fork lifts.
@@TechIngredients Interesting. I just watched a video of a guy inverting a 20 lb tank to illegally fill disposable 1 lb tanks. It seemed to work fine. Maybe it was the magic of RUclips. From what I know on the float, it floats UP on an upright tank to stop the overfilling of the tank. When the tank is inverted, the float would float up, which would be down if the tank was upright and allow propane liquid out. I guess you could use a 100 lb tank which is not subject to the government mandated valves.
And now I'm happy. Love your videos.
Thank you! Be happy...
What camera are you using? quality is great
Hello, i have a burning question: wat if you put the propane tank upsidedown then you should get to transfer liquid propane, right? I am no expert!
Greetings,, Kitty.
Many, although not all of these smaller tanks are constructed with "anti-siphon" valves that stop all flow when inverted. These tanks are becoming more prevalent.
@@TechIngredients Oh, thank you so that is why you want do it this way and it seems not a big job. I wil try this at home LOL.
Greetings,, Kitty.
I refill the small camping bottles from commercial cylinders, with the little adapter they sell at Harbor Freight, never had any issue with the anti-siphon device. Maybe I'm just lucky.
EEK! They really sell an adapter to do that?
@@BrightBlueJim
I've had mine for over a year, less than twenty bucks and payed for itself many times over ! 😊
@@kengamble8595 Do you freeze the green canisters or just invert the source tank? I've seen where they say you need to freeze the green tank to be able to get them to full. Likely similar to the temperature difference required to make it transfer he was talking about. It looks like it would be much easier to do the 100 degree water bath than find space for 5-10 green canisters. Then, the biggest thing would be calculating the 80% full weight.
My dad converted an old pickup to propane in the early 90's. We had a fueling station you could just drive into to tank up. He would drive for months on a 150 gallon tank for like 50 bucks.
It was like 35 cents a gallon. Why did it increase in price so rapidly compared to other fuels?
It didn't, the exchange programs are a great way to rip people off. I used to work for Tractor Supply and they sell propane marked up a few cents a gallon and they fill whatever you bring that's legal. I would suggest getting cylinders filled rather than exchanging them simply because of the cost.
Yep. It's a riff on the bottled water scam basically. I've never done an exchange thing. I've always just gone to the local propane place, and filled it up. They have trucks that go to people's house's too, and fill up the big tanks people have outside their homes. Ain't no natural gas lines out in the boonies, ya'll.
Small cylinders are expensive per kilo, but the bigger ones are a lot cheaper. I just use 9kg cylinders, as they are a convenient size to handle, and made a transfer tube out of 2 of the flex hoses used to connect them to manifolds. A simple adaptor from the 9kg bullnose to the small cylinder thread ( off the shelf at the gas supply place as well) and just turn the big cylinder on it's side to get faster fill, then turn upright for the last half kilo or so of gas to clear the liquid out of the pipes.
Helps here that the LPG price is regulated on the big cylinders, but not on the small ones, so instead of paying almost the price of the 9kg for a 3kg refill I get 2 out of the big one, and then use the rest as usual. Could also use 14 or 19kg cylinders, but they are inconvenient to move.
As well the price rose rapidly because of demand, LPG used to be a low use item, most refineries would use it as process heat internally, selling off a little at a loss for gas, or flaring it off. Then they started using it as feedstock for plastic production, and demand rose rapidly, so the price for the gas rose, and refineries started making money off it, plus people moved away from heavy fuel oil heaters to gas heaters.
Still $2.00 $3.00 per gallon in bulk like 500 plus gallons
Lol... you had me fooled for a bit when you pulled the blowtorch.
This is a pretty good method, actually. Gentle temperature gradients removed from actual flames are very good for a number of processes.
That said, This liquid propane system needs a moisture trap.
Liquid propane isn't used more often specifically because of the trouble in keeping moisture and humidity out of those systems and the troubles that they can cause.
A propane gas system freezes the water into place at the top of the liquid/gas interface, but the pressure gradient between gas and liquid stops the moisture from forming a solid plug.
A riser tube, such as is used in most liquid delivery systems, does not have this advantage.
If a riser tube freezes, a solid plug can be a serious problem. This is actually why NASA has stopped using liquid propane in many systems.
If you're using a liquid propane system, you have to account for the differences in the "Dryness" of the propane because commercial suppliers catering to residential consumers, do not account for this difference. In fact, doing so would cut into their underlying profit margin because it would be an extra step in processing and storing said propane.
Using an adsorbent, like silica gel, is a pretty cheap and easy means of compensating for the lack of "Dryness" in the commercial source. The only issue with doing so is an exposure time required for most adsorbents to remove a percentage of water from the propane, but increasing the length of tubing filled with adsorbent should be sufficient.
Also... note: absorbent =/= adsorbent. two distinct things... just so i'm clear on that....
Talk about propane and propane accessories?
Great work... you are a true pro
Info on / link to th scale you're using?
I do transfers all the time, I just turn the full cylinder upside down and it transfers liquid, just vent the filling tank via its bleed valve. No water or heating
After 18 years with the same supplier, I switched to AmeriGas. Got a nice new shiney 250 gallon tank and hopefully what will be less expensive propane. The price of propane has become a somewhat expensive locally. Digging out my transfer apparatus, too. Even the small Coleman bottles have been running about $5 each, they can be refilled for much less.
Your knowledge is amazing sir, tanks for your time making the video.
You're welcome!
Always great content 👍
Could have swore I saw Hank Hill peeking around one of the trees behind you.
Why did you not invert the warm tank to transfer liquid propane?
There is an anti siphon float valve that shuts off flow when the tank is inverted.
@@TechIngredients All my 20 lb tanks empty liquid propane with no issue when inverted. I've done it dozens of times. I know there is a float inside, but I believe it has another function. I really enjoy your content by the way.
Don't know if you care at this point. But two things: 1.) You can get liquid service from a forklift cylinder. 2.) You can get propane a LOT cheaper by the gallon. Tractor Supply and Costco both will sell for not even half of what you quoted.
I like the concept using basic temperature difference , what is the temperature difference ?
Any temperature difference will eventually move all the propane to the cooler tank, but the larger the difference the faster the process.
Tech Ingredients yes but i was curious on your actual delta temp , around 60 deg C ?
Actually, close to 60F or 35C.
It would be nice to hear units in SI.
In India they have propane tanks that have a exit hole on top, so you can join two tanks one on top of the other upside down and they have a 10 inch pipe you put between them. So the propane will transfer from the top tank to the bottom tank, without any heating or pumping. This way poor people can share Propane between neighbors.
Might it wise to have a tear down of the propane standard gas cylinder mechanisms
You're right. I wouldn't have done this before because it seemed too far afield from the applications for the propane ie the engines. However, we intend to use large quantities of liquid propane and the fiberglass tanks are the best for this. As we will have to modify these for liquid extraction, the teardown and the components could be covered in a video.
thanks ,I would find it interesting . Great videos , topics and precise presentations as always
Used that method to transfer R134a from one tank to another.
I really love your content, but please keep the old intro.
Those new intros with edgy music and fast clips, dondt fit to your channel type.
Thanks again for imparting knowledge!
You're welcome!
I also do a bit of "flushing" the canister being filled...if its for the first time... let tiny anount in, and vent it two or three times...
Your point is a good one and for another reason as well. It is never a good idea to fill a closed container with a flamible gas when there is oxygen in there just waiting to mate.
The propane heating bit was pure comedic genius ahahah
It’s also used in airsoft but you need to add a little silicone oil and then you won’t have to buy green gas which is expensive for a 200 gram tank.
I really enjoy watching your videos.
Quick correction, you are trans filling into a 20# CO2 tank, not a 10#, as mentioned at the tail end of your video.
Keep sharing your experiments.
You are correct. Thanks!
Quick note about the exchange tanks. I have 3 places in town to fill my bbq tank. 2 of them actually have the proper fill station and the other is Walmart "exchange" anywho. For years I used the first proper fill station same guy would fill it everytime I'd hand him the tank he would hook up that very inflexible fill hose set it on the scale turn it on then open the bleeder screw, fill it up proper. Well one day I go in too get tank filled and a new guy fills my tank he didn't open the bleeder screw ( didn't notice we were talking ) A few bbqs later (ribs) i was out. Took it in too have it filled same thing. I was running out quickly. Even worse with the exchanged tanks wouldn't last very long. Meanwhile a new business started and installed a propane fill station. So I went there instead of exchange. This guy filled my tank I noticed he opened the bleeder screw. Then it dawned on me the place I had been going to for years when the new guy was trained from lack of paying attention or lazy or just wasn't told to do so wasn't opening the bleeder screw. My point is if you take your tank to have it filled make sure they open the bleeder screw. I'd say you lose 1/4 or a 1/3 of the tanks capacity if they don't open the bleeder screw. The exchange tanks were even worse and the price was even more. So 4 years ago I found myself broke down near Dayton Ohio. The company that brokers my work for me had an office there so they let me tow my vehicle to there yard. When I got there I noticed a ton of these propane exchange tanks. Next day I asked they said they sublease part of the property to a exchange company. Later on of the drivers was loading unloading his truck I asked who fills the tanks he said we do, I said do you open the bleeder valves he said hell no, I can fill more tanks faster by not opening them, he said. He also said if he were to fill all the tanks he wouldn't be able to fill his truck all the way up. So there ya have it. The exchange ranks don't fill them up all the way, so they can move more tanks. I did take the time to run some quick numbers. It seemed like I said they were cheating us out of 1/4 or 1/3 of the propane we paid for.
So if he wasn't opening the vent valve, how was he determining that the tank was full? That's how my tanks have always been filled - fill until liquid comes out of the vent.
@@BrightBlueJim well, that's my point. They were not filling it all the way. I guess just guessing. It pushes me off cuz it's the same price to fill.
although the tank was set on a scale, it likely never reached full weight but stopped going into the tank because of the pressure(or area taken up by compressed air). If the tank is normally vented while filling then there needn't be much pressure to push the liquid in. As such, if it's not vented, that minimum pressure pushing the liquid will only push/compress the full volume of air so far. Gas compresses, liquid does not, so there would be some amount of compressed air in there not allowing that volume to fill with liquid propane.
If you have cars or forklifts that use propane , use them tanks to decant from.
I haven't used it in a while, but the commercial 20 lb propane cylinder exchange path is a rip off. Slightly more expensive than getting your own cylinder refilled, and very convenient, but they often, if not always, only fill the tank with 16 lbs or so.
BT Dubs, don't forget to label and purge the receiving tank. From when I filled tanks many years ago, new propane cylinders arrived pressurized with something other than propane. If it wasn't purged it would interfere with the burners' operation. Different case here with the CO2 bottle, especially after the first use and you're just refilling. Also BT dubs, since you've got extreme vacuum technology, why not purge and then draw down the receiving tank substantially (don't crush it!), then invert the source tank in the warm water bath. Purge the hose. You should be able to skip the garden hose cooling and just leave the receiving tank on the scale. Just crack the source tank valve open and watch the scale indication so you don't over fill.
Typical LP tanks do have a draw straw that goes down from the tank's valve at the top, but that straw doesn't go all the way to the bottom, so it's of little use for getting liquid propane without inverting the propane tank. It's supposed to go down about 20% of the liquid volume of the tank from the top. This straw is on a separate smaller circuit from the main valve, and has its own tiny valve
The commercial tanks will deliver liquid if turned upside down, as I understand it. Might make things a little faster or even unnecessary.
Let's not talk about Cody, okay?
lol, I was sitting there and like halfway through I was like wait, didnt I just watch cody do this. I actually think its cool to come from different source because not only do you get people like us getting a little quiz to prove you knew it, but also you get a confirmation that this works with multiple things, multiple ways.
Well ... he was dealing with a gas from a FIRE EXTINGUISHER ... That's a little bit different in terms of fire hazard from liquid propane.
Well, he was outside and frankly in terms of halon the point is it's no longer in mass production, that was the dangerous bit. Old extinguishers and sprays are lying around leaking halon all the time but we've pretty much stopped production of any new halon that would find its way into the atmosphere.
The danger there was the possibility of explosion (which would probably just punch a hole in one of the tubes or valves and not the tank itself) He's done MUCH more dangerous stuff than that (like handling supercritical CO2 in a vial which he sealed himself)
Thank you for this learning experience.
I thought ElectroBOOM may have been consulted for this video when you picked up that torch!!! ;)
I’m confused, if all you wanted was the liquid instead of the gas vapour, wouldn’t it be easiest to just flip your 20lb tank on its head? Would do the same as having a dip tube, simply takes gas liquid from a low pickup point in the tank..
There is a shut off valve inside these tanks that prevents all flow when the tanks are inverted.
@@TechIngredients I have the same AmeriGas tank, no problem inverting it to refill my little 1lb bottles.
next time, try pulling a vacume, on the empty tank, then frezing it, should make a quick fluid transfer. also safer.
Put it in the chest freezer the night before, or outside during winter.
Need a siphon? uhh, no. I transfer liquid out of a 20# OPD tank all the time. just flip it upside down. you only need a couple degreess of delta T between containers to push a whole tank easily.
I also have CO2 tanks and transfill from them into paintball tanks, etc... same thing. doesn't take much.