The Pilsner trend is the best thing to happen to craft beer in my opinion. I've been waiting a long time for this. Luckily there are some some breweries making great Pilsners around me. I for one hope the trend continues.
Funnily enough, Cold IPA have been all the rave in continental Europe this last couple of years, and I love it. Crispness of a lager, high bitterness, high hop aroma and flavour, very little caramel. My perfect beer.
you should try to get out to seattle for fresh hop season. it's west coast turned up to a level you didn't know possible when fresh. you think you know, but until you've been, you realize you don't.
Cannot speak for the beers you tried here, however had Sierra Navada's Cold Torpedo - Cold IPA months back and thought that was pretty good. Refreshing, crisp, and still carried a likewise flavor to their noteworthy regular Torpedo. Worked for me on a hot summer day and didn't taste anything like a hoppy Corona, thankfully. Of course we all have different tastes. Cheers!
I believe the bird on the Fremont Legend Cold IPA is a Great Blue Heron - native bird of the PNW region and an imagine Fremont uses in a lot of its branding.
Right you are! I live in Fremont (neighborhood in north Seattle), and the logo is indeed a blue heron. They have a great blue neon sign with the bird logo on it at their beer garden. My favorite brewery.
I’m loving that craft beer breweries have started up recently. I was ok 10 years ago but now I find it a challenge to try them all. When I was 18, there was only macro beer available in Australia
I've had alot of these from different breweries since it was first created and I still think the original from wayfinder is the best Cold IPA. Love the style.
Glad you posted this video. Just bought a cold IPA by Arundel, thinking someone rebadged the IPL. I’ll be interested to see if it matches your description. Great video
It’s got to be the maize! Ever since having a dodgy pint of Stella a few months ago (in a pub with few options) I just cannot drink anything with maize in it! The taste just leaps out and ruins the beer completely! Great vid as always lads, overcoat season for the win 💪
A lot of thoughts here. - Cold IPAs, if using lager yeast, are WARM fermented, not cool fermented. Other clean yeast is fine, like Chico or even a Kolsch yeast at cooler temps. The idea is to create a beer that's clean, but not lager-like. - Wayfinder's own recipe uses rice, whereas you're comparing the style predominately with corn in mind. Rice does not carry through that adjunct flavor. - While Wayfinder does say that their beer is trying to be "wester than west coast", it's also noted that WCIPA is much sweeter these days than it was say 10 years ago. Cold IPA is more of a callback to a beer you'd find back then than something totally new...just brewed in a bit of a different way. - Like many emerging styles, I don't think there are many breweries that are doing this style very well currently. When NEIPA was first emerging many breweries were hopping on the trend and produced (and many still produce) not-so-great examples. It's tough to judge a style off of so few examples. - This beer has been around since 2020 and is still very well loved by those that can get it from Wayfinder. It's likely sticking around. Founder's is producing a session version of a Cold IPA in 15 packs. Their Brut IPA never left the taproom. - IPL's, while also not an "offical style" or anything, generally aren't as bitter and generally don't use adjuncts, and generally are meant to have more of a lager-like finish. Just some thoughts. Thanks for the content and cheers!
Thanks for all the thoughts and with you on everything except point 3! Not sure I've seen a rise in FG of westies. If anything, the removal of crystal, or subbing with munich, or use of Pilsner malt means they are at least perceived drier these days. So to me, Cold IPA feels no more dry or crushable. Perhaps that was different in PNW?
I think you're right about WCIPA not changing and I take that back. It's probably just more common that WCIPA's aren't being made as much across the US in favor of something with more caramel malts, and perhaps Cold IPA is a bit of a renaissance to a not-as-often brewed style. Trends are totally different here in the midwest though, so I may be very much out of touch with what's going on in the PNW. I'm also not sure that a style has to be "more dry" or "more crushable" to be considered a different style though right? It's still a beer made with an adjunct that American IPA or IPL don't call for, fermented different, and hopped differently. (Wayfinder's recipe does not call for a mid-fermentation dry hop by the way, just a VERY large dry hop before packaging.) Perhaps a better "catch all" name for the style would be "American Adjunct IPA". Is it a clean low-ester IPA with rice or corn (preferably rice)? Boom. Done.
Thanks Michigan Brews! I agree with all of this. Couple of things: 1. We've been making Cold IPA since 2018 as a reaction to NEIPA (which we also brew, begrudgingly) 2. The "trick" that Cold IPA should do is the increased abv (6.8% and above) with a high adjunct malt bill produces a strikingly stark yellow beer that cannot be achieved with all-malt. Coupled with increased bitterness (heavy influence from the California IPAs of the late 2000's), the alcohol provides the sweetness to balance the bitterness. What you should end up with is a very pale, bitter, dry and refreshing IPA that is sneaky strong. If brewers are trying to make this style of beer with lower gravity and bitterness, I would just call that West Coast Pilsner, IPL or something else. Cold IPA is very much a continuation of where I believe WCIPA was abandoned somewhere in 2015 (at least out here). Great channel guys and keep up the good work!
@@kevindaveyofwayfinder4085 thanks for much for the comment Kevin! Really hope I can try yours one day - these ones were well made beers but for us the corn note is distracting. If yours hits that brief of being wester than west coast I am all over that!
@@kevindaveyofwayfinder4085 Oh wow, hey! Thanks so much for the reply and the insight! Some of our club members have been making a lot of this style recently and I'm really enjoying the results. Thank you so much for the tip on the ABV and the adjuncts, I'll make sure to pass this along! These beers have absolutely been different than any other American IPA we've seen over in Michigan in the last long while and it's a really wonderful and refreshing style that I hope others soon really get a grasp on. Best of luck out there and thank you again!
Mate. I am in Portland, Oregon and have plenty of these available. We distribute Wayfinder and work with one of what I believe is one of the minds behind this style. They do actually vary, quite substantially between breweries. Maybe we should send a mixed pack for you guys to try from the birthplace of the style. I also have a beer writing friend who could help document the history and where it's been taking off. I have had a few rippers and I feel it's still developing.
There has been a trend for years of West Coast IPAs moving towards lighter bodied beers swapping out Crystal for maybe some Munich. Instead of a new style, Cold IPA seems to be just one more step toward that lighter bodied IPA. I think the flaw is aiming for the 7% ABV range then having to use adjuncts to keep the body light with the rather high gravity. If I want a "crusher" I want it to be in the 5% range. I do think we will see a lot more beers that combine the crisp character of a Pilsner and the hops of a Pale Ale, likely focused on more modern hop varieties and in the 5% range. The marketing guys just need to figure out a name for that style beer that sells. "Hoppy Lager/Pilsner" is terrible. To me a "West Coast Pilsner" would imply bitterness and classic American hops. Maybe like a New Zealand Pilsner but with hops from any location?
That west coast pilsner appelation is nice, but does it differentiate cold IPA from IPL? I still don't get the difference anyway, I thought I understood it but the present video brings more confusion to me. I've never found one to buy, so I brewed one (or so I thought) with californian lager yeast at 10°C, light body, 6.5% abv, west coast hops and hoping schedule. Came out better than all my previous tries at IPAs because much much cleaner, way more "professional". To me that is already a great way of making IPAs (at home at least), but I don't know if that makes it a style per se, and I'm not sure why it is not an IPL. Please send help.
@@yoann5934 honestly I don't see a difference in IPL and a Cold IPA. It honestly mainly seems to be a marketing thing. IPAs sell well so call the IPL an IPA.
Without being told, I picked up the lager yeast, which I dislike, in the Fremont. After four or five seconds in my mouth, the lager yeast hit me, and I said, “nope, not for me.” And had a Coronado Weekend Vibe, a straight-ahead “pure” West Coast.
From my understanding it’s a Hybid IPA, brewed like a NEIPA, late hopping mainly whirlpool. Fermented with lager yeast and dry hopped with New School hops, mainly Aussie or New Zealand fruity hops. I just produced a Cold Red IPA.
And now the IPL I mentioned earlier from strange bird brewery out of Rochester ny, malts: pils, carapils, Munich, hops: CTZ, Amarillo, el dorado. Smells more like a lager but the taste is somewhere between an ipa and a lager, slight haze, golden, straw color
Have you guys heard about “phantasm”??? From what I’ve gathered, I understand it is a wine grape skin powder used in NEIPAs to amplify all those tropical and fruity notes. Anyway, quite a few “hyped” breweries here in Brazil have been using it. Still, I haven’t found that much information about it and would love to learn more, specially if it came from your channel, I really enjoy the content! 🍻
Agreed! I'm in upstate New York and we have quite a few local breweries around, but only two of them to my knowledge have done anything with phantasm (one of them being one of my current favorite NEIPAs). Not sure how easy it is to get a hold of at the moment, but it seems like an interesting ingredient if used properly and not just dumped into an IPA for the sake of making it juicier.
Being in SoCal there are a ton of samples of this style, I see a lot of the as hoppy pilsners here... The "IPA" is literally a marketing tool, I think the hoppy pilsner is just like a gateway beer to more lager beers.. To me its more of a lighter ABV crusher to hangout and drink a bunch of.
Every time I hear cold IPA being described as "not an IPL" I think of the scene from "Spinal Tap" - why not just make 10 louder? what, no, this one goes to 11!
I feel like I've said this before so forgive me if I have. Cold IPA is a gimmick. Folks have been making cold fermented IPAs for years. It's a not a new thing. Do yourself a favor and brew a Bell's Two Hearted Clone but ferment it with 34/70 at the high end of lager temps. Same malt bill and hop schedule. It turns out fantastic. BTW: if you want to make a macro lager or cream ale then fine... use Maze... That stuff will never be found in my brewery. Any hint of corn is very off putting for me... Cheers! Love of the channel...
Sub the corn for rice. Much cleaner crisper final product. I understand a lot of peoples point of you on hating this beer style, but it really is a showcase for the hops, and is a fantastic crushable beer style.
I met Kevin back in 2016 when he was still coming up with the message around "Cold IPA." I mentioned I cheat and use 34/70 fairly warm to make a clean and crisp west coast IPA, instead of the usual chico, and he said he did the same, and most of the beers he had on draft were made that way (sans the token hazy). Then he started playing around with rice in the grist and I guess that's where he said "Okay this is different enough, let's give it it's own style name." Meanwhile IPL is alive and well among the Highland Parks of the world. But they also just call it West Coast Pils(ner)... which it very much isn't. So you have IPA that isn't IPA, and Pilsner that isn't Pilsner. We've all gone mad.
Its a shame you couldn't get your hands on a Wayfinder Cold IPA, they really are excellent... most other breweries calling things Cold IPA dont taste anything like the original Wayfinder creation. I have had Fremont Legend and it is mediocre at best.
This is the first time I've heard the term "Cold IPA" and I live in the Pacific Northwest and I feel like I'm normally into the beer scene enough to where I should have heard of it if it's actually getting popular. But as you mentioned it has corn, no way I want corn in my IPA.
Ok, I found this at my local bottle shop (brewed and bottled) it’s a “cold” ipa from Grimm called “& resident culture”. It’s 7%, Here’s what it says on the can “the opposite of a hazy IPA, this dry and quenching “cold ipa” is brewed with lager yeast and rice - a crisp canvas for simcoe and motueka hops.” So basically an IPL😏🍻👍🏻, not bad but like it says very dry. One of the other beers I picked up is an actual IPL So we’ll see the difference. Ok, now back to the video!
where are you guys getting all those Fremont Brewing beers in Europe? Used to live right next to the brewery in Seattle, but I can't find them here in Denmark
I really enjoyed the recent Verdant Cold IPA, What Little Mountains We Move. First I've ever had and definitely a summer beer, pours a clear amber and drinks like a pilsner with loads of hops at the end. Why they didn't release this 3 months ago is beyond me.
I tried a few cold ipa’s and it also didn’t match my liking. I was all in on the neipa trend and still enjoy it now and again, but I can’t do without a proper “traditional” strong west coast ipa!
I just had a sam adams cold ipa and loved it. Had all the hop flavors and none of the bitterness...why anyone would like a bitter beer is very strange to me.
QUICK CORRECTION! In the video Jonny says the ferment temp of this style is 8-12. This aint necessarily correct. Many brewers are fermenting these lager yeasts even warmer (even up to ale temps around 18) - the idea is the lager yeast works fast to clean up the mess it makes. So what do we think folks? Is Jonny right about the maize or as Brad says, is the future of IPA essentially hoppy Corona?
Thanks for the video! Always a treat. As I understood it the original was made with a cereal mash using rice? I watched an interview with Kevin Davey from Wayfinder he said that he did not get the profile he liked with flaked adjuncts. So i guess maybe in the same way the New England IPA became something very different then Heady Topper I guess this style has evolved on its own as well. The adjunct profile i heard from the interview would be different than the corny maltyness you describe in the video. Maybe this is something for a homebrew episode and a good way to talk about cereal mashing, could be interesting!
Tasty drop the cold IPA when you sit back and simply think "do I enjoy this". Think this 1st, analyse afterwards. To me it is more akin to an american cream ale (the flaked maize), which is more hoppy and the mouthfeel is slicker instead of thinner. A great way to throw a few different elements from different styles together to come out with something tasty. Once you remove the term IPA from your expectations, it is easier to dissect the beer. Try a few different ones as it is an emerging category
I tried Tiny Rebel's cold-fermented IPA. It reminded me of Coors Light. It's not a bad style, but I can't imagine someone going to the bar and picking this style unless they'd never had it before. I don't think I could ever get bored of Westies.
I had a cold IPA that did not seem to fit in any category and did not stand out as style but a recent beer hit a dry, crisp, aromatic, piney gap between West Coast IPA, an IPL, which I rarely see anymore, and a brut IPA, which is also rare. The cold IPA I enoyed had Ekuanot or Cryo stuffed into a brut lager-ale and was crushable, yet exploded with floral, piney, pomelo flavor. I asked that it be on tap year round along with their West coast and NEIPA. The cold IPA can replace session IPAs and pale ales.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Iowa Brewing Company, Big River, on tap. This is a new beer not part of their core brews. I liked it as a better, brut IPL for hop-heads like me. It is like a brut-opposite of a West Coast piney-honey beer. (I like brut beers, though; especially brut brett beers.)
India pale lager is one of my favs! Brew Dog used to have a really awesome one called Hellcat, but they replaced the recipe with a Cold IPA. Total fail compared to the IPL.
I tried a "Cold IPA" and I don't see what the big deal is. I found one from Sweetwater Brewing and it had instructions on how to enjoy the beer, which was kind of nice. I didn't care for the beer at all, maybe I need to try one from a different brewery? If you're wondering, the instructions said chill to 32 degrees F before enjoying. The can also made a big deal pointing out that they used Cryo hops.
So the jury seems to be out on this. I think Wayfinder ferment at that, but not all lager strains can do it cleanly. That said you are right it probs is warmer than the 8 to 12 I mentioned.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel thank you for your reply. I am going to brew one myself but feel scheptical about the higher ferm temp in a lager, perhaps I,ll try a middle ground of 15C and go from there. Thank you for the amazing content, please keep it up! All the best
@@TheCraftBeerChannel fair enough. Maybe out in the UK.😁 Perhaps the ones I've had here in South Africa. Seems a lot less hops and they charge the same price as a neipa. More of a slightly hoppy lager.🤔.
Maybe i’ll feel different in a couple of years when the style has been refined, but all ipas trying to bridge the gap between east and west coast feel compromised for the sake of difference to me. I think also a focus on being dry might limit the commercial feasibility of a beer like this
The same mistake Cold IPA makes is the same one that Brut IPA did - when they attenuate well, you can taste too much corn. Using just rice, they get very crisp, skip the corn.
The problem is that those styles don't sell - so as much as the breweries would love to focus on a wider range of styles, it would hurt them. A big part of what we do is about educating and hopefully exciting people about all kinds of beer.
As someone who has only know craft during/post the NEIPA revolution/domination I think that Cold IPA represents a move to create the traditional West Coast bitterness that people like me missed whilst still innovating a 'new' style.?
Way off on the fermentation profile. It’s actually NOT fermented cold or even colder. Basically it’s a yeast like lager yeast like 34/70 fermented warm typically. Direct quote from Kevin @Wayfinder "Second, I used our house lager strain of yeast, but ferment it warm (65F) to avoid the excessive SO2. Using a clean fermenting yeast like this allows the hops to shine without a backdrop of ale yeast aromas."
Totally right on the original and we omitted this in error, but from our conversations with brewers not everyone is following this and preferring to ferment closer to lager temps or using Kolsch yeasts at their preferred range.
Well from a techie perspective very different! Totally different yeast, malt, temps and hopping regime. For the drinker there are some crossovers (dryness, crispness, west coast hop presentation) but overall the use of adjuncts makes them very different in flavour.
Ah, I was wondering when this was going to come up. I've been reading about them in the American Home brew press, specifically the excellent Craft Beer and Brewing magazine who have as good an explanation as I've read. Cold lager fermentation as you rightly say. Problem is, I've just returned again from Oxfordshire, very near Hook Norton, which of course I had to revisit to buy loads of bottles of beautifully brewed beer from the brewery shop. Very traditional brewers with vast experience who also do some modern styles with great panache. It just reinforces my cynicism of the relentless search for the latest trend in craft beer. Don't get me wrong. I love a good Westie (far more than a NEIPA, which I think are quite faddy and lacking real character). Why are drinkers so restlessly bored with the huge diversity they already have?
As a guy who has drank west coast IPAs on the West Coast of the US ever since I started drinking beer, I would be hard pressed to agree that the California style IPAs are crushable like a lager...that is a description I give to hazy IPAs more often than not. No expert though so I will take your guys word on it that my description/perception/expectations of the 2 styles are inaccurate
Hey I mean we all have different palates so like to crush different things! But generally the sweeter finish, heavier adjuncts, water profiles and hopping rates make NEIPAs a little to thick for crushing but many hazies are lightening up again to counter that
@@TheCraftBeerChannel that could be it since most of the hazies I drink aren't true NEIPAs - they are west coast breweries takes on that style of beers. Like someone once said to me (before I became a beer drinker) - "it isn't that you don't like beer; it's that you haven't found the types of beers you like yet!" 😆
While I have your attention - can I suggest a video idea...I am struggling to find great American made German beer styles (hef, dunkel, mertzen, etc) - I mean truly comparable ones to the German stuff. A video exploring why they don't exist or if they do who they are would be awesome!
Don't put corn in my beer. The more there is the less I like it. Sierra Nevada's Cold Torpedo is a very good beer - no corn or rice - but they do use Vienna malt. But their IPL from several years ago was excellent, and I also enjoyed other brewers' versions of the style. So IPL is better than cold IPA, but West Coast IPA is still king, always will be.
Ha that's certainly one way of looking at it, though worth noting that certainly rice is no cheaper that malt. So that won't be the motivation for most breweries. It's also a different fermentation temp and hopping regime, which means a bigger difference in technicals than between say, a German Pilsner and a Helles.
My god there is some BS about in beer making. What's wrong with old school west coast IPA? Nothing. What's going on is folk getting bored and seeking novelty and dash of marketing thrown in for good measure. Personally I miss a good westie, getting harder to find one now.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I hear you; it's not going to stop me moaning about people putting stupid things in beer for example or trying to reinvent the wheel! Genuine innovation is rarer than novelty in my view.
Not quite sure what you mean? Biotransformation can happen at any point during fermentation - by "the end" we still mean while the yeast is chomping away.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel i dont want to act pretentious. 😅 Afaik yeast ezymes are most active during growth phase and fade during stationary. I believe it was also mentioned in your interview with verdant brewing (where he said they dont dry hop but only whirl pool).
I still don't understand how this can be called an IPA? The A stands for Ale meaning Ale yeast. I don't care what temp you ferment at it is in my opinion an IPL. That be like a Kolsch beer claiming to be a lager. Its all marketing BS in my opinion. I also just noticed your beer channel has the same initial's as my beer channel. Cheers!
I happen to agree. Terrible name and more than a little confusing... especially as it's not even fermented that cold (around 18). IPA, however, has branched out well beyond the meaning of India, Pale or Ale - which is fine language evolves, but it should evolve to make things less, not more, confusing.
just had my first cold ipa, safe to say I wont have another. it feels like this style will disappear just as quick as brut ipa which personally, I think is a good thing 👎
This will be another fad, just like brut IPA was (and where are they now?) Just concentrate on making a IPL, and making it well, or do a kick ass WestIPA or NEIPA. There are so many variations you can just just by changing up the hops in either a westy or NEIPA. On our local FB Beer forum, the question gets asked from time to time why more local breweries don't do more Belgian styles (dubbel, triple, etc, etc) or more German styles, and ultimately it comes down to $$$$ If a Belgian dubbel is going to sit on a tap for multiple weeks, but the latest and greatest NEIPA is gone in a few days.....which ones are breweries going to gravitate to? We have a local brewery that touts themselves as German and Belgian inspired, and have done beer in the past to those styles (and still to to a certain extent) but in the last year have brought out core Westy and now their version of a NEIPA. Both are great, but I know why they have done it, because the other styles don't sell as well. I miss Black IPA. There were about 5-6 local breweries that made them. That got cut back to 1 that is mostly full time, with the others doing one seasonally, and now that is cut back to the same one that does theirs mostly year round....and that is it. Not even getting the seasonal ones anymore. Love me a good Black IPA. To some, just a hoppy stout I suppose, but still was one of my favorite styles.
Never understood this cold IPA nonsense. It’s basically an IPL. It’s brewed with a lager yeast. Sure it has adjuncts, but it’s still a lager. Not an ale. I sometimes think brewers slap the term IPA on anything without realising what the A stands for… 😂
If you watch the video it isn't always lager yeast, and it isn't always cold conditioned. So some might be lagers, but others are ales and others are hybrids (kolsch).
West Coast has fallen out of favor and is not cool anymore? Sometimes I really wonder about you guys and your perspective on craft brewing. With U.S. brewers winning 94 of 112 gold medals at the 2022 World Beer Cup, American craft brewing is clearly dominant. A significant number of the American medalists are West Coast breweries, so the West Coast has definitely not fallen out of favor. As for whether West Coast brewing is cool or not, I’ll leave that argument to the hipster marketers.
A few points to make here. First, we are from the UK so our perspective is of course skewed by that - and West Coast IPAs are exceptionally hard to find here. Second, the World Beer Cup, good comp as it is, is far from an indication of what is going on in world brewing - there are over 30,000 breweries in the world. Only a few hundred enter it and rarely are they the best in the world (a sad fact I have come to accept as a beer judge). As for the comment about marketers - they are definitely the ones TRYING to make it cool again, so don't go badmouthing them.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel The UK perspective is not necessarily what I was commenting on, but rather the "chasing coolness" perspective. Of course, that is not all that you do since you have also done in-depth explorations of established, traditional beer styles and cultures that do not depend on being cool, and you are doing good work in trying to revive interest in cask ales that are struggling in part because they are not this week's cool beer style. But your emphasis on "coolness" in beer styles is often quite noticeable. As for West Coast IPAs, I'd argue that, at least in the U.S., or at least on the U.S. West Coast, West Coast brewing and West Coast IPAs aren't anywhere close to struggling even if they are now something closer to an established, doesn't-depend-on-being-cool style than to the hottest new fad. West Coast IPAs from multiple brewers are readily available in California grocery stores, not just from specialty vendors, and there is still more demand than supply for limited edition West Coast IPAs from Russian River, Stone Brewing, etc. Even that may be overstating West Coast IPA's lack of coolness, or at least relevance. West Coast IPAs, or at least something leaning in that direction using established West Coast IPA hops, do indeed look to be what's in style this week. From Jeff Alworth's current piece in _Craft Beer & Brewing_ , for which he surveyed craft brewers from coast to coast in the U.S.: "The trends in hazies point to a convergence with West Coast IPAs, which have gotten increasingly fruity and juicy in recent years, coinciding with a drop in bitterness. What separates these two traditions is more a matter of degree now-or rather, they exist along a continuous spectrum. The results of my survey bear that out. Fewer than 4 percent of the respondents said they wanted “full and sweet” hazies with “very low” bitterness-hallmarks of the style, in theory. Even more surprisingly, almost as many people said they preferred classic West Coast hops (“citrus, pine, dank”) in their hazies as said they preferred “tropical” flavors-and that was true even in New England."
@@markhamstra1083 I appreciate and understand all your points - absolutely no denying WCIPA is the most common beer on the market, but that doesn't make it cool. Like you say, it makes it relevant more than cool - much like macrolager is relevant but far from cool. I think you misunderstand our approach a bit. Most of our viewers are likely in that 4% you speak of - in the US, West Coast style brewing in the volume product, drunk by millions of people who don't regard themselves as beer enthusiasts. NEIPA is utterly dominant in beer geek spaces - ask any brewer and they will tell you the pressure they feel to produce them, much like brewers felt the pressure to make WCIPA 10 or 15 years ago. So when we talk about styles not being cool it is both because in our small world and our audience's they definitely aren't - but we wish they were. Jeff's point is bang on, and to me it shows a further threat to west coast IPA going into decline, because these fruitier westies are nothing like the original style. Diversity is what we love about beer and why we really try to cover all styles, and the champion in both content and tone the styles we see not being enjoyed by the people who by the most beer.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I think you misunderstand Jeff’s point a bit. Whether you call it a fruitier WCIPA or a danker and drier NEIPA, by Jeff’s accounting “there’s no longer a distinctive New England (or Southern or Midwestern) hazy IPA. Now it’s all - once again - just American IPA.” I don’t completely agree with Jeff. While I can agree that the latest trend is toward Jeff’s American IPA, at least on the West Coast the established, traditional WCIPA isn’t going away, so it isn’t _all_ American IPA. I couldn’t tell you whether the stereotypically “full and sweet” NEIPA is declining in the rest of the country, but I’m seeing less of it in California. To my mind it is NEIPA that is losing it’s coolness and market position, not WCIPA. Special release WCIPAs are still cool and highly sought after here, larger production WCIPAs continue to sell widely, there’s a lot of Jeff’s new American IPA, and stereotypical NEIPA is increasingly hard to find. That last is not surprising given that only 4% of U.S. brewers in Jeff’s survey said that they prefer “full and sweet” hazies with “very low” bitterness.
@@markhamstra1083 ah I understand his point and there is definitely a blur - but I don't think drinkers will see this continuum and brewers will have to define what they brew to help drinkers. I think the West coast is still a bit of a bubble when it comes to WCIPA but I hope it's approach spreads.
The Pilsner trend is the best thing to happen to craft beer in my opinion. I've been waiting a long time for this. Luckily there are some some breweries making great Pilsners around me. I for one hope the trend continues.
According to craft brewer leaders such as Sam from Dogfish Head 2023 is the year of the lager so we'll be seeing more pilsners pop up
Funnily enough, Cold IPA have been all the rave in continental Europe this last couple of years, and I love it.
Crispness of a lager, high bitterness, high hop aroma and flavour, very little caramel. My perfect beer.
you should try to get out to seattle for fresh hop season. it's west coast turned up to a level you didn't know possible when fresh. you think you know, but until you've been, you realize you don't.
Agreed! Stoop fresh hop fiend series is where its at! Also single hill hop truck crossing series!
Cannot speak for the beers you tried here, however had Sierra Navada's Cold Torpedo - Cold IPA months back and thought that was pretty good. Refreshing, crisp, and still carried a likewise flavor to their noteworthy regular Torpedo. Worked for me on a hot summer day and didn't taste anything like a hoppy Corona, thankfully. Of course we all have different tastes. Cheers!
It's a very good beer, and doesn't contain any corn or other adjuncts.
I believe the bird on the Fremont Legend Cold IPA is a Great Blue Heron - native bird of the PNW region and an imagine Fremont uses in a lot of its branding.
Right you are! I live in Fremont (neighborhood in north Seattle), and the logo is indeed a blue heron. They have a great blue neon sign with the bird logo on it at their beer garden. My favorite brewery.
I’m loving that craft beer breweries have started up recently. I was ok 10 years ago but now I find it a challenge to try them all. When I was 18, there was only macro beer available in Australia
Brew York have knocked out a couple of superb cold IPA's, definitely a favourite style of mine now
I've had alot of these from different breweries since it was first created and I still think the original from wayfinder is the best Cold IPA. Love the style.
Yes it’s always grey and wet for those of us up in the northwest,,,,,but the micro brews rock
Glad you posted this video. Just bought a cold IPA by Arundel, thinking someone rebadged the IPL. I’ll be interested to see if it matches your description. Great video
It’s got to be the maize! Ever since having a dodgy pint of Stella a few months ago (in a pub with few options) I just cannot drink anything with maize in it! The taste just leaps out and ruins the beer completely!
Great vid as always lads, overcoat season for the win 💪
That bird on the front of the Fremont can is a Blue Heron! It's the official City Bird of Seattle and also the Fremont Brewing "mascot" :)
A lot of thoughts here.
- Cold IPAs, if using lager yeast, are WARM fermented, not cool fermented. Other clean yeast is fine, like Chico or even a Kolsch yeast at cooler temps. The idea is to create a beer that's clean, but not lager-like.
- Wayfinder's own recipe uses rice, whereas you're comparing the style predominately with corn in mind. Rice does not carry through that adjunct flavor.
- While Wayfinder does say that their beer is trying to be "wester than west coast", it's also noted that WCIPA is much sweeter these days than it was say 10 years ago. Cold IPA is more of a callback to a beer you'd find back then than something totally new...just brewed in a bit of a different way.
- Like many emerging styles, I don't think there are many breweries that are doing this style very well currently. When NEIPA was first emerging many breweries were hopping on the trend and produced (and many still produce) not-so-great examples. It's tough to judge a style off of so few examples.
- This beer has been around since 2020 and is still very well loved by those that can get it from Wayfinder. It's likely sticking around. Founder's is producing a session version of a Cold IPA in 15 packs. Their Brut IPA never left the taproom.
- IPL's, while also not an "offical style" or anything, generally aren't as bitter and generally don't use adjuncts, and generally are meant to have more of a lager-like finish.
Just some thoughts. Thanks for the content and cheers!
Thanks for all the thoughts and with you on everything except point 3! Not sure I've seen a rise in FG of westies. If anything, the removal of crystal, or subbing with munich, or use of Pilsner malt means they are at least perceived drier these days. So to me, Cold IPA feels no more dry or crushable. Perhaps that was different in PNW?
I think you're right about WCIPA not changing and I take that back. It's probably just more common that WCIPA's aren't being made as much across the US in favor of something with more caramel malts, and perhaps Cold IPA is a bit of a renaissance to a not-as-often brewed style. Trends are totally different here in the midwest though, so I may be very much out of touch with what's going on in the PNW.
I'm also not sure that a style has to be "more dry" or "more crushable" to be considered a different style though right? It's still a beer made with an adjunct that American IPA or IPL don't call for, fermented different, and hopped differently. (Wayfinder's recipe does not call for a mid-fermentation dry hop by the way, just a VERY large dry hop before packaging.)
Perhaps a better "catch all" name for the style would be "American Adjunct IPA". Is it a clean low-ester IPA with rice or corn (preferably rice)? Boom. Done.
Thanks Michigan Brews! I agree with all of this. Couple of things: 1. We've been making Cold IPA since 2018 as a reaction to NEIPA (which we also brew, begrudgingly) 2. The "trick" that Cold IPA should do is the increased abv (6.8% and above) with a high adjunct malt bill produces a strikingly stark yellow beer that cannot be achieved with all-malt. Coupled with increased bitterness (heavy influence from the California IPAs of the late 2000's), the alcohol provides the sweetness to balance the bitterness. What you should end up with is a very pale, bitter, dry and refreshing IPA that is sneaky strong. If brewers are trying to make this style of beer with lower gravity and bitterness, I would just call that West Coast Pilsner, IPL or something else. Cold IPA is very much a continuation of where I believe WCIPA was abandoned somewhere in 2015 (at least out here). Great channel guys and keep up the good work!
@@kevindaveyofwayfinder4085 thanks for much for the comment Kevin! Really hope I can try yours one day - these ones were well made beers but for us the corn note is distracting. If yours hits that brief of being wester than west coast I am all over that!
@@kevindaveyofwayfinder4085 Oh wow, hey! Thanks so much for the reply and the insight! Some of our club members have been making a lot of this style recently and I'm really enjoying the results. Thank you so much for the tip on the ABV and the adjuncts, I'll make sure to pass this along!
These beers have absolutely been different than any other American IPA we've seen over in Michigan in the last long while and it's a really wonderful and refreshing style that I hope others soon really get a grasp on.
Best of luck out there and thank you again!
Mate. I am in Portland, Oregon and have plenty of these available. We distribute Wayfinder and work with one of what I believe is one of the minds behind this style. They do actually vary, quite substantially between breweries. Maybe we should send a mixed pack for you guys to try from the birthplace of the style. I also have a beer writing friend who could help document the history and where it's been taking off. I have had a few rippers and I feel it's still developing.
Sadly getting beer across the Atlantic is a nightmare but maybe one day we'll make it to you!
There has been a trend for years of West Coast IPAs moving towards lighter bodied beers swapping out Crystal for maybe some Munich. Instead of a new style, Cold IPA seems to be just one more step toward that lighter bodied IPA. I think the flaw is aiming for the 7% ABV range then having to use adjuncts to keep the body light with the rather high gravity. If I want a "crusher" I want it to be in the 5% range.
I do think we will see a lot more beers that combine the crisp character of a Pilsner and the hops of a Pale Ale, likely focused on more modern hop varieties and in the 5% range. The marketing guys just need to figure out a name for that style beer that sells. "Hoppy Lager/Pilsner" is terrible. To me a "West Coast Pilsner" would imply bitterness and classic American hops. Maybe like a New Zealand Pilsner but with hops from any location?
That west coast pilsner appelation is nice, but does it differentiate cold IPA from IPL? I still don't get the difference anyway, I thought I understood it but the present video brings more confusion to me. I've never found one to buy, so I brewed one (or so I thought) with californian lager yeast at 10°C, light body, 6.5% abv, west coast hops and hoping schedule. Came out better than all my previous tries at IPAs because much much cleaner, way more "professional". To me that is already a great way of making IPAs (at home at least), but I don't know if that makes it a style per se, and I'm not sure why it is not an IPL. Please send help.
@@yoann5934 honestly I don't see a difference in IPL and a Cold IPA. It honestly mainly seems to be a marketing thing. IPAs sell well so call the IPL an IPA.
Without being told, I picked up the lager yeast, which I dislike, in the Fremont. After four or five seconds in my mouth, the lager yeast hit me, and I said, “nope, not for me.” And had a Coronado Weekend Vibe, a straight-ahead “pure” West Coast.
From my understanding it’s a Hybid IPA, brewed like a NEIPA, late hopping mainly whirlpool. Fermented with lager yeast and dry hopped with New School hops, mainly Aussie or New Zealand fruity hops. I just produced a Cold Red IPA.
I'm more into Mountain IPA, it's a nice mix of a Westy and a NEIPA. Thorbirdge's Northbridge was one of my favorite beers last year.
And now the IPL I mentioned earlier from strange bird brewery out of Rochester ny, malts: pils, carapils, Munich, hops: CTZ, Amarillo, el dorado. Smells more like a lager but the taste is somewhere between an ipa and a lager, slight haze, golden, straw color
Cold IPA
6 gallon batch
OG: 1.056
FG: 1.008
Attenuation: 85%
ABV: 6.3%
Grains
10 lb great western pils
1 lb German light Munich
3 lb flaked rice
Hops
.75 oz mt hood fwh
1 oz cascade whole cone @ 60
2 oz Amarillo whole cone flame out
2 oz motueka flame out
2 oz motueka yeast pitch
2 oz Amarillo yeast pitch
Yeast
Omega dried Lutra 11 grams pitched at 75*F, pressure fermented
Have you guys heard about “phantasm”???
From what I’ve gathered, I understand it is a wine grape skin powder used in NEIPAs to amplify all those tropical and fruity notes.
Anyway, quite a few “hyped” breweries here in Brazil have been using it.
Still, I haven’t found that much information about it and would love to learn more, specially if it came from your channel, I really enjoy the content! 🍻
Agreed! I'm in upstate New York and we have quite a few local breweries around, but only two of them to my knowledge have done anything with phantasm (one of them being one of my current favorite NEIPAs). Not sure how easy it is to get a hold of at the moment, but it seems like an interesting ingredient if used properly and not just dumped into an IPA for the sake of making it juicier.
We have tried a few beers that uses it but not really dug into it as yet. We'll start researching!
Urban family does excellent phantasm beers.
As a homebreewer i sometimes dry hop when the krausen has dropped, just to speed things up a bit and then cold crash to drop it all out.
Camden Town have made one these (Kentish town brewery) and I'll be having it on in my pub. I'll be interested to see how it goes down.
Being in SoCal there are a ton of samples of this style, I see a lot of the as hoppy pilsners here... The "IPA" is literally a marketing tool, I think the hoppy pilsner is just like a gateway beer to more lager beers.. To me its more of a lighter ABV crusher to hangout and drink a bunch of.
cold ipas are great. North Park made a killer ddh one. Just like Cali/WC Pils are amazing as well
Every time I hear cold IPA being described as "not an IPL" I think of the scene from "Spinal Tap" - why not just make 10 louder? what, no, this one goes to 11!
I feel like I've said this before so forgive me if I have. Cold IPA is a gimmick. Folks have been making cold fermented IPAs for years. It's a not a new thing. Do yourself a favor and brew a Bell's Two Hearted Clone but ferment it with 34/70 at the high end of lager temps. Same malt bill and hop schedule. It turns out fantastic.
BTW: if you want to make a macro lager or cream ale then fine... use Maze... That stuff will never be found in my brewery. Any hint of corn is very off putting for me...
Cheers! Love of the channel...
Sub the corn for rice. Much cleaner crisper final product. I understand a lot of peoples point of you on hating this beer style, but it really is a showcase for the hops, and is a fantastic crushable beer style.
Hmmm, still I'm intrigued by them and would love to try one. The mouthfeel and texture pique my curiosity the most.
I met Kevin back in 2016 when he was still coming up with the message around "Cold IPA." I mentioned I cheat and use 34/70 fairly warm to make a clean and crisp west coast IPA, instead of the usual chico, and he said he did the same, and most of the beers he had on draft were made that way (sans the token hazy). Then he started playing around with rice in the grist and I guess that's where he said "Okay this is different enough, let's give it it's own style name."
Meanwhile IPL is alive and well among the Highland Parks of the world. But they also just call it West Coast Pils(ner)... which it very much isn't.
So you have IPA that isn't IPA, and Pilsner that isn't Pilsner. We've all gone mad.
Also the bird on Fremont is a Blue Heron - real common in the PNW. They call their little secret nanobrewery in back the "Black Heron Project"
Hahaha. What a world. I think we should campaign for breweries coming up with new styles to give them ALL NEW NAMES.
Its a shame you couldn't get your hands on a Wayfinder Cold IPA, they really are excellent... most other breweries calling things Cold IPA dont taste anything like the original Wayfinder creation. I have had Fremont Legend and it is mediocre at best.
Interesting. Does the original have any of that adjunct character?
Thanks for taking my video suggestion, sorry this style isnt for you I just was wonder what it even was. Cheers!
This is the first time I've heard the term "Cold IPA" and I live in the Pacific Northwest and I feel like I'm normally into the beer scene enough to where I should have heard of it if it's actually getting popular. But as you mentioned it has corn, no way I want corn in my IPA.
Wayfinder doesn't use corn, though the originating brewer there has decided to say it's ok.
@@chicaneti Regardless, I tried my first cold IPA the other day and basically spat it out
Ok, I found this at my local bottle shop (brewed and bottled) it’s a “cold” ipa from Grimm called “& resident culture”. It’s 7%, Here’s what it says on the can “the opposite of a hazy IPA, this dry and quenching “cold ipa” is brewed with lager yeast and rice - a crisp canvas for simcoe and motueka hops.” So basically an IPL😏🍻👍🏻, not bad but like it says very dry. One of the other beers I picked up is an actual IPL So we’ll see the difference. Ok, now back to the video!
Buxton’s Fredkins cold IPA is definitely worth a try it’s very enjoyable
where are you guys getting all those Fremont Brewing beers in Europe? Used to live right next to the brewery in Seattle, but I can't find them here in Denmark
A bunch came over for LCBF via the BA
I really enjoyed the recent Verdant Cold IPA, What Little Mountains We Move. First I've ever had and definitely a summer beer, pours a clear amber and drinks like a pilsner with loads of hops at the end. Why they didn't release this 3 months ago is beyond me.
Maybe you could try brewing one and sub rice for corn. Might take care of the hoppy corona and make it hoppy asahi super dry
I tried a few cold ipa’s and it also didn’t match my liking. I was all in on the neipa trend and still enjoy it now and again, but I can’t do without a proper “traditional” strong west coast ipa!
Alright. Try Overtone's Cold IPA: 'Cold in the North' - Pilsner malts, Kolsch yeast and Ida7, Ida7 cryo, SIM, Cit & Centennial. Really good, dangerously clean, easy drinking at 6.5% - and definately no Jolly Green Giant.
I just had a sam adams cold ipa and loved it. Had all the hop flavors and none of the bitterness...why anyone would like a bitter beer is very strange to me.
QUICK CORRECTION! In the video Jonny says the ferment temp of this style is 8-12. This aint necessarily correct. Many brewers are fermenting these lager yeasts even warmer (even up to ale temps around 18) - the idea is the lager yeast works fast to clean up the mess it makes.
So what do we think folks? Is Jonny right about the maize or as Brad says, is the future of IPA essentially hoppy Corona?
Thanks for the video! Always a treat. As I understood it the original was made with a cereal mash using rice? I watched an interview with Kevin Davey from Wayfinder he said that he did not get the profile he liked with flaked adjuncts. So i guess maybe in the same way the New England IPA became something very different then Heady Topper I guess this style has evolved on its own as well. The adjunct profile i heard from the interview would be different than the corny maltyness you describe in the video. Maybe this is something for a homebrew episode and a good way to talk about cereal mashing, could be interesting!
What? Another virus on the way? No thanks 😂
Tasty drop the cold IPA when you sit back and simply think "do I enjoy this". Think this 1st, analyse afterwards. To me it is more akin to an american cream ale (the flaked maize), which is more hoppy and the mouthfeel is slicker instead of thinner. A great way to throw a few different elements from different styles together to come out with something tasty. Once you remove the term IPA from your expectations, it is easier to dissect the beer. Try a few different ones as it is an emerging category
I really like the Verdant one.
Is Fremont beers distributed in the UK, or is it being shipped to you from the US?
The beers were over for a festival - sadly not a frequent thing!
at the moment there are some good IPL´s from Germany. Buddelship for example made an incredible IPL! :)
Its an amazing style, will you ever revisit this?
I tried Tiny Rebel's cold-fermented IPA. It reminded me of Coors Light. It's not a bad style, but I can't imagine someone going to the bar and picking this style unless they'd never had it before. I don't think I could ever get bored of Westies.
I could never tire of Irish Mild Ales and Porters and Stouts
How do Cold IPAs differ from steam beers? Isn’t steam an ale with lager yeast?
I just drunk en EPIC BEER "ROOSTER" COLD IPA here in New Zealand and it was delicious
I had a cold IPA that did not seem to fit in any category and did not stand out as style but a recent beer hit a dry, crisp, aromatic, piney gap between West Coast IPA, an IPL, which I rarely see anymore, and a brut IPA, which is also rare. The cold IPA I enoyed had Ekuanot or Cryo stuffed into a brut lager-ale and was crushable, yet exploded with floral, piney, pomelo flavor. I asked that it be on tap year round along with their West coast and NEIPA. The cold IPA can replace session IPAs and pale ales.
What was the brewery?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Iowa Brewing Company, Big River, on tap. This is a new beer not part of their core brews. I liked it as a better, brut IPL for hop-heads like me. It is like a brut-opposite of a West Coast piney-honey beer. (I like brut beers, though; especially brut brett beers.)
It's better with rice over corn. Ideally it's most;y pilsner malt, a touch of munich and some rice and some old school west coast hops for bittering.
Please try Stella unfiltered!!!
I still like brut IPA, it is great on hot summer days. Even people who don't drink beer like brut IPA :)
India pale lager is one of my favs! Brew Dog used to have a really awesome one called Hellcat, but they replaced the recipe with a Cold IPA. Total fail compared to the IPL.
I tried a "Cold IPA" and I don't see what the big deal is. I found one from Sweetwater Brewing and it had instructions on how to enjoy the beer, which was kind of nice. I didn't care for the beer at all, maybe I need to try one from a different brewery? If you're wondering, the instructions said chill to 32 degrees F before enjoying. The can also made a big deal pointing out that they used Cryo hops.
Great vid as always:):) one question isn't it supposed to be fermented at 19C or so ?
So the jury seems to be out on this. I think Wayfinder ferment at that, but not all lager strains can do it cleanly. That said you are right it probs is warmer than the 8 to 12 I mentioned.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel thank you for your reply. I am going to brew one myself but feel scheptical about the higher ferm temp in a lager, perhaps I,ll try a middle ground of 15C and go from there. Thank you for the amazing content, please keep it up! All the best
Agreed. Not a fan of the ones I've tried. Feel it is also a way to overcharge for a less amount of expensive ingredients.
That's probably a bit harsh - we're talking barely pennies per can difference here.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel fair enough. Maybe out in the UK.😁 Perhaps the ones I've had here in South Africa. Seems a lot less hops and they charge the same price as a neipa. More of a slightly hoppy lager.🤔.
May be similar to Duff Cold, Raspberry Duff, Tartar Control Duff, etc....
modern brewery rain + snow cold ipa is the one
They're India Pale Lagers with a name that brewers think will actually sell
Maybe i’ll feel different in a couple of years when the style has been refined, but all ipas trying to bridge the gap between east and west coast feel compromised for the sake of difference to me. I think also a focus on being dry might limit the commercial feasibility of a beer like this
Well the interesting thing is this isn't trying to be a bridge... it's trying to me MORE west coast, but didn't feel anywhere near as west coasty.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel maybe I should say fill the gap rather than bridge - like finding an alternative to east or west in any form
For me, the hop choice in Cold IPA's can either make or break them. And by make them, I only mean make them drinkable for my tastes and nothing more.
I've not had enough of them to have a strong opinion but the handful I've had I didn't score any of them highly. I hate maize in lagers.
The same mistake Cold IPA makes is the same one that Brut IPA did - when they attenuate well, you can taste too much corn. Using just rice, they get very crisp, skip the corn.
Were breweries putting corn in their Bruts?! Don't remember that.
"West Coast" IPA (WCIPA) Well... that tells you exactly where it belongs! In the WC 🤪
I always drink my IPAS cold i even freeze my beer glass haha
I think I'll stick to my DDH/DIPA's
If brewers are bored I wish they would concentrate on milds and brown ales both of which have lots to offer but just aren't very fashionable
The problem is that those styles don't sell - so as much as the breweries would love to focus on a wider range of styles, it would hurt them. A big part of what we do is about educating and hopefully exciting people about all kinds of beer.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Agree with all that. Really enjoy the channel
As someone who has only know craft during/post the NEIPA revolution/domination I think that Cold IPA represents a move to create the traditional West Coast bitterness that people like me missed whilst still innovating a 'new' style.?
Hmmm an intersting thought. It does neatly avoid any accusations of being "old skool"!
Way off on the fermentation profile. It’s actually NOT fermented cold or even colder. Basically it’s a yeast like lager yeast like 34/70 fermented warm typically.
Direct quote from Kevin @Wayfinder
"Second, I used our house lager strain of yeast, but ferment it warm (65F) to avoid the excessive SO2. Using a clean fermenting yeast like this allows the hops to shine without a backdrop of ale yeast aromas."
Totally right on the original and we omitted this in error, but from our conversations with brewers not everyone is following this and preferring to ferment closer to lager temps or using Kolsch yeasts at their preferred range.
feel like the beard guy was saying the opposite to what the bald guy thought he was saying when he talking about improving west coast ipas.
How is this that different from the Brut IPA craze of a few years ago? It sounds like these are rebranded Brut IPAs.
Well from a techie perspective very different! Totally different yeast, malt, temps and hopping regime. For the drinker there are some crossovers (dryness, crispness, west coast hop presentation) but overall the use of adjuncts makes them very different in flavour.
Ah, I was wondering when this was going to come up. I've been reading about them in the American Home brew press, specifically the excellent Craft Beer and Brewing magazine who have as good an explanation as I've read. Cold lager fermentation as you rightly say. Problem is, I've just returned again from Oxfordshire, very near Hook Norton, which of course I had to revisit to buy loads of bottles of beautifully brewed beer from the brewery shop. Very traditional brewers with vast experience who also do some modern styles with great panache. It just reinforces my cynicism of the relentless search for the latest trend in craft beer. Don't get me wrong. I love a good Westie (far more than a NEIPA, which I think are quite faddy and lacking real character). Why are drinkers so restlessly bored with the huge diversity they already have?
First time I have heard that, Cold IPA??
I know it sounds snobbish but I can't get used to beer in cans. Where I'm from that's considered sacrilegious ;)
It was in the UK until just a few years ago, but it is a better vessel for beer.
As a guy who has drank west coast IPAs on the West Coast of the US ever since I started drinking beer, I would be hard pressed to agree that the California style IPAs are crushable like a lager...that is a description I give to hazy IPAs more often than not.
No expert though so I will take your guys word on it that my description/perception/expectations of the 2 styles are inaccurate
Hey I mean we all have different palates so like to crush different things! But generally the sweeter finish, heavier adjuncts, water profiles and hopping rates make NEIPAs a little to thick for crushing but many hazies are lightening up again to counter that
@@TheCraftBeerChannel that could be it since most of the hazies I drink aren't true NEIPAs - they are west coast breweries takes on that style of beers.
Like someone once said to me (before I became a beer drinker) - "it isn't that you don't like beer; it's that you haven't found the types of beers you like yet!" 😆
While I have your attention - can I suggest a video idea...I am struggling to find great American made German beer styles (hef, dunkel, mertzen, etc) - I mean truly comparable ones to the German stuff. A video exploring why they don't exist or if they do who they are would be awesome!
Don't put corn in my beer. The more there is the less I like it. Sierra Nevada's Cold Torpedo is a very good beer - no corn or rice - but they do use Vienna malt. But their IPL from several years ago was excellent, and I also enjoyed other brewers' versions of the style. So IPL is better than cold IPA, but West Coast IPA is still king, always will be.
Thumbs down to the cold IPA for me. I have enjoyed a couple IPLs though. One with Nelson and Motueka of all things.
West Coast is best coast!
So it's corporate marketing speak for making IPL with cheap macro lager ingredients.
Ha that's certainly one way of looking at it, though worth noting that certainly rice is no cheaper that malt. So that won't be the motivation for most breweries. It's also a different fermentation temp and hopping regime, which means a bigger difference in technicals than between say, a German Pilsner and a Helles.
My god there is some BS about in beer making. What's wrong with old school west coast IPA? Nothing. What's going on is folk getting bored and seeking novelty and dash of marketing thrown in for good measure. Personally I miss a good westie, getting harder to find one now.
I am inclined to agree in a lot of cases, though novelty is how a lot of great styles started so we never want to stop people messing around.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I hear you; it's not going to stop me moaning about people putting stupid things in beer for example or trying to reinvent the wheel! Genuine innovation is rarer than novelty in my view.
SMaSH IPA is coming strong :)
Biotransformation does not happen at the end of fermentation. You should know from your interview with verdant!
Not quite sure what you mean? Biotransformation can happen at any point during fermentation - by "the end" we still mean while the yeast is chomping away.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel i dont want to act pretentious. 😅
Afaik yeast ezymes are most active during growth phase and fade during stationary. I believe it was also mentioned in your interview with verdant brewing (where he said they dont dry hop but only whirl pool).
Watched the whole video, still don't know what a Cold IPA is, didn't sound too great either.... NEXT!
I still don't understand how this can be called an IPA? The A stands for Ale meaning Ale yeast. I don't care what temp you ferment at it is in my opinion an IPL. That be like a Kolsch beer claiming to be a lager. Its all marketing BS in my opinion. I also just noticed your beer channel has the same initial's as my beer channel. Cheers!
I happen to agree. Terrible name and more than a little confusing... especially as it's not even fermented that cold (around 18). IPA, however, has branched out well beyond the meaning of India, Pale or Ale - which is fine language evolves, but it should evolve to make things less, not more, confusing.
So.... it's a cream-IPL with biotransformation...
Ha - actually yes that's a pretty good summary.
yessssss
So what I get is normal cheap beer is the best beer and given enough time all beer turns in to it
Erm... I don't think so. While we joked about Corona, a Corona drinker trying this would get one hell of a shock.
I see IPL’s many places in Denmark
Lucky you! We like that style.
I Pass Always.
Sod the taste. It's all about marketing.
just had my first cold ipa, safe to say I wont have another. it feels like this style will disappear just as quick as brut ipa which personally, I think is a good thing 👎
its a Heron not a crane
This will be another fad, just like brut IPA was (and where are they now?)
Just concentrate on making a IPL, and making it well, or do a kick ass WestIPA or NEIPA. There are so many variations you can just just by changing up the hops in either a westy or NEIPA.
On our local FB Beer forum, the question gets asked from time to time why more local breweries don't do more Belgian styles (dubbel, triple, etc, etc) or more German styles, and ultimately it comes down to $$$$
If a Belgian dubbel is going to sit on a tap for multiple weeks, but the latest and greatest NEIPA is gone in a few days.....which ones are breweries going to gravitate to?
We have a local brewery that touts themselves as German and Belgian inspired, and have done beer in the past to those styles (and still to to a certain extent) but in the last year have brought out core Westy and now their version of a NEIPA. Both are great, but I know why they have done it, because the other styles don't sell as well.
I miss Black IPA. There were about 5-6 local breweries that made them. That got cut back to 1 that is mostly full time, with the others doing one seasonally, and now that is cut back to the same one that does theirs mostly year round....and that is it. Not even getting the seasonal ones anymore. Love me a good Black IPA. To some, just a hoppy stout I suppose, but still was one of my favorite styles.
It's IPL but no one buys IPL so they changed the name. That's it.
But they also changed the malts, the yeasts, the temperatures, the hopping regime and the flavours.
Never understood this cold IPA nonsense. It’s basically an IPL. It’s brewed with a lager yeast. Sure it has adjuncts, but it’s still a lager. Not an ale. I sometimes think brewers slap the term IPA on anything without realising what the A stands for… 😂
If you watch the video it isn't always lager yeast, and it isn't always cold conditioned. So some might be lagers, but others are ales and others are hybrids (kolsch).
So it’s a beer style which can use any yeast and ferment at any temp. I’m sure the BJCP are huge fans of that 😂😂
West Coast has fallen out of favor and is not cool anymore? Sometimes I really wonder about you guys and your perspective on craft brewing. With U.S. brewers winning 94 of 112 gold medals at the 2022 World Beer Cup, American craft brewing is clearly dominant. A significant number of the American medalists are West Coast breweries, so the West Coast has definitely not fallen out of favor. As for whether West Coast brewing is cool or not, I’ll leave that argument to the hipster marketers.
A few points to make here. First, we are from the UK so our perspective is of course skewed by that - and West Coast IPAs are exceptionally hard to find here. Second, the World Beer Cup, good comp as it is, is far from an indication of what is going on in world brewing - there are over 30,000 breweries in the world. Only a few hundred enter it and rarely are they the best in the world (a sad fact I have come to accept as a beer judge). As for the comment about marketers - they are definitely the ones TRYING to make it cool again, so don't go badmouthing them.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel The UK perspective is not necessarily what I was commenting on, but rather the "chasing coolness" perspective. Of course, that is not all that you do since you have also done in-depth explorations of established, traditional beer styles and cultures that do not depend on being cool, and you are doing good work in trying to revive interest in cask ales that are struggling in part because they are not this week's cool beer style. But your emphasis on "coolness" in beer styles is often quite noticeable.
As for West Coast IPAs, I'd argue that, at least in the U.S., or at least on the U.S. West Coast, West Coast brewing and West Coast IPAs aren't anywhere close to struggling even if they are now something closer to an established, doesn't-depend-on-being-cool style than to the hottest new fad. West Coast IPAs from multiple brewers are readily available in California grocery stores, not just from specialty vendors, and there is still more demand than supply for limited edition West Coast IPAs from Russian River, Stone Brewing, etc.
Even that may be overstating West Coast IPA's lack of coolness, or at least relevance. West Coast IPAs, or at least something leaning in that direction using established West Coast IPA hops, do indeed look to be what's in style this week. From Jeff Alworth's current piece in _Craft Beer & Brewing_ , for which he surveyed craft brewers from coast to coast in the U.S.:
"The trends in hazies point to a convergence with West Coast IPAs, which have gotten increasingly fruity and juicy in recent years, coinciding with a drop in bitterness. What separates these two traditions is more a matter of degree now-or rather, they exist along a continuous spectrum.
The results of my survey bear that out. Fewer than 4 percent of the respondents said they wanted “full and sweet” hazies with “very low” bitterness-hallmarks of the style, in theory. Even more surprisingly, almost as many people said they preferred classic West Coast hops (“citrus, pine, dank”) in their hazies as said they preferred “tropical” flavors-and that was true even in New England."
@@markhamstra1083 I appreciate and understand all your points - absolutely no denying WCIPA is the most common beer on the market, but that doesn't make it cool. Like you say, it makes it relevant more than cool - much like macrolager is relevant but far from cool.
I think you misunderstand our approach a bit. Most of our viewers are likely in that 4% you speak of - in the US, West Coast style brewing in the volume product, drunk by millions of people who don't regard themselves as beer enthusiasts. NEIPA is utterly dominant in beer geek spaces - ask any brewer and they will tell you the pressure they feel to produce them, much like brewers felt the pressure to make WCIPA 10 or 15 years ago. So when we talk about styles not being cool it is both because in our small world and our audience's they definitely aren't - but we wish they were. Jeff's point is bang on, and to me it shows a further threat to west coast IPA going into decline, because these fruitier westies are nothing like the original style.
Diversity is what we love about beer and why we really try to cover all styles, and the champion in both content and tone the styles we see not being enjoyed by the people who by the most beer.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I think you misunderstand Jeff’s point a bit. Whether you call it a fruitier WCIPA or a danker and drier NEIPA, by Jeff’s accounting “there’s no longer a distinctive New England (or Southern or Midwestern) hazy IPA. Now it’s all - once again - just American IPA.” I don’t completely agree with Jeff. While I can agree that the latest trend is toward Jeff’s American IPA, at least on the West Coast the established, traditional WCIPA isn’t going away, so it isn’t _all_ American IPA. I couldn’t tell you whether the stereotypically “full and sweet” NEIPA is declining in the rest of the country, but I’m seeing less of it in California. To my mind it is NEIPA that is losing it’s coolness and market position, not WCIPA. Special release WCIPAs are still cool and highly sought after here, larger production WCIPAs continue to sell widely, there’s a lot of Jeff’s new American IPA, and stereotypical NEIPA is increasingly hard to find. That last is not surprising given that only 4% of U.S. brewers in Jeff’s survey said that they prefer “full and sweet” hazies with “very low” bitterness.
@@markhamstra1083 ah I understand his point and there is definitely a blur - but I don't think drinkers will see this continuum and brewers will have to define what they brew to help drinkers. I think the West coast is still a bit of a bubble when it comes to WCIPA but I hope it's approach spreads.
Yet another gimmick, just like Brut which was forgotten quickly.
That sums it up. Get out of here Fremont Brewing.
This is such a gimmick. They are basically lagers that are hopped up like IPAs. I call them IPL and have been making them for years...
I think they are pretty distinct... and as a result not very good.
korea also has a major brand branding themselves with some kind of cold brew or something like that, totally gimmick and taste disgusting.
A hoppy beer or something else?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel a "lager"