Guiness was the beer that taught be that beer could actually be enjoyable. In the US college students almost exclusively buy the cheapest American Lagers. I could not stomach them and being young and dumb assumed beers were all terrible. Then a friend gave me a Guinness and it was good! Guinness may not be my favorite beer anymore but I still have a special place in my heart for it and other stouts for opening my mind to better beers. 🍻
As an American, before the craft beer movement happened; Guinness was the first one to teach me 'there's more than just pilsners out there.' My love of stouts is definitely influenced by Guinness.
I feel fortunate to have come of age in Fort Collins Colorado. We had Odell Brewing and New Belgium Brewing companies. I had access to really good microbrews so I never had to navigate the cheap American Lager college days.
Lunchtime here on the East Coast of the U.S. and you're making me crack a Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter on a Wednesday. Lol. Very cool episode, fellas.
Pure porter in a pub was poured from 2 kegs. 1 was the black, thick heart of the pint the 2nd the cream. When serving, you'd pour the white 1st and let it settle, top up with the black and skim the top with a knife and top up with a little more of the black. It's sad it's gone from Ireland since the early 70's. A taste we will never get to experience.
The blog. Shut up about Barclay Perkins, has some information about old Irish beers. I think you could come close to recreating it again with that information.
In my opinion, Guinness could be described as crisp as it it very light bodied. To me their traditional Stout is very thin, compared to Imperial and other styles. A couple friends of mine and I have a Facebook page devoted to Stouts and Porters.
About the “it’s all wild yeast before the 19th century,” I think it’s worth pointing that even though there were no off-the-shelf yeasts back then, the fact that brewers would reuse the yeast from the old batch into the new batch (backslopping) made it so that yeasts were essentially in the process of being domesticated. Recent DNA analysis found that our current strains can be dated to 16th century ancestors or so. So unlike lambic that harvest new yeast every time (and even then, there are plenty of localized yeasts to each brewery), old breweries were pitching yeast, but they mostly had the house strain available.
Hmm. Not sure if this really correct. I don't see a lot of evidence of this from reading the bjcp style guidelines. Stouts and porters of various styles can both be sweet or dry and they can definately both be pretty roasty. Some stouts can also be pretty low on roast like modern fruited/pastry/vanilla stouts
Really? Just read them and porter says "Moderate to moderately low bready, biscuity, and toasty malt aroma with mild roastiness, and may have a chocolate quality" Then the stout: "A black beer with a pronounced roasted flavor, often similar to coffee. The balance can range from fairly even to quite bitter" Of course other styles of porter and stout taste different, but they are different styles! Just like NEIPA and WCIPA have little in common. Also worth saying that BJCP is not the bible on beer styles. It's heavily americanised and also designed for judging categories more than for drinkers.
Excellent vid, glad you mentioned the Guinness porte/stout marketing flip. In truth it's like the difference between a pale ale and an IPA, it is really just down to whoever came up with the recipe and put the lable on it.
Brown malt has a very peculiar, strong flavour. Some of that funky weirdness and complexity in the Gibraltar is probably the brown malt. Where I work we made a brown ale for a contractor using quite a lot of brown malt - it was not an easy drink.
That's doubly true if there is some smoked malt thrown in there as well. I once made a "smoked brown" and overdid it a bit and was consequently barely able to finish a bottle (which is otherwise never a problem, not even with very high abv beers, lol) and the batch (despite being a small, test one) lasted well over a year.
Thank you. I love both of these styles but now I know why. I also love history. Beer and Scotch. Would love to get that Gibraltar Porter. Do they sell it in Canada?
Haha - we'd love to explore beer culture in some less Westernised countries and see the differences. The love of stout is definitely one of those things for Western Africa!
My wife and I went to Ireland and had the opportunity to do the Guinness Brewery tour. Not only do I enjoy Guinness from time to time, knowing the history of Guinness makes it taste even better knowing you are drinking a part of Irish history.
Historically, there was absolutely no difference. Stout was just the name given to stronger Porters. In London, Porter and Stout were regularly parti-gyled together so their recipes were identical. That continued right up until the 1940s. The stuff on 18th century styles you got totally wrong. The two main styles were Beer and Ale. Which came in three colours and could both either be sold mild or stale. Mild Ale in the 18th century wasn't weak. Lots would have been 7% ABV or more. The Kernel East India Porter is probably based on one of my recipes. I know their 1890 Export Stout was. Most English brewers didn't use brown malt after 1850. The exception was London, where Whitbread were still using brown malt in the 1970s. Dry Stout only really dates from the 1950s, when Guinness Extra Stout's attenuation was bumped up from 75% to 85%. Before that, it had been no drier than London Stout.
Hey are you Ron Pattison, if so apologies and thanks for the clarifications! We didn't mean to imply mild was weak, only that given the nature of the fermentations it would have been weaker than the the stale beer on offer. We do literally say in the video there was no difference between stout and porter other than strength and that the names diverged only as a marketing change (we should have said how much later this happened.)
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yes, that's me. Porter and Stout have a complex history. I'm always learning more. ( I got a look in the Guinness archives a couple of years ago. Only a little glimpse, but enough to be very instructive.) Martyn Cornell's upcoming book on Porter will doubtless teach me a whole lot more. Did you see his blogpost on Jamaican Porter? All totally new to me. I'm sure it will contain a lot more revelations.
Stout is stout because it’s a description... (Think “I’m a little teapot short and stout” etc) Guinness literally was called Guinness extra stout Porter... as it was a fuller/bigger kind of porter then they dropped the Porter bit of the name
Great video! Have always wondered what the difference is. Really enjoyed your format in explaining while drinking and chatting! Cheers from Vancouver Canada =)
If it has no body and tastes like raw, liquid potato, it's a porter. If it's a strong, dark beer that you'd want to drink when it's cold outside and you deserve to have one with some pistacchios or cheese because you were a champ at work today, it's a stout. Grab a Samuel Smith and come watch the match with me, good friend!
For any UK Mainland beer lovers I'd reccomend Harvey's Porter (Harveys Brewery is based in Lewes, East Sussex , England). Their Porter recipe is the same as their original recipe from 1859 (that's what the brewery claim anyways). Their Porter is one of my favorite beers and I couldn't recommend it more!
Dear Mr. javagoblin1585 your comment is very rude. These gentlemen have done a lot of good work in the beer scene and deserve respect. Sir. Jonny Garrett and Sir. Brad Evans, that´s the names you called them.
Found you by accident.... I'm fortunate to have a local pub that brews mostly English Ales, Belgians, German beers. Recent offers are a Dark winter Ale (spiced a bit), an Ould Brown Ale, Porter, Stout, and the latest offers include a Belgian Saison with rye and sage. Wish you were here to try them. Tell ya what, if you two lads show up here in Plymouth MA I'll buy you a round.
Fantastic video ! Now for the hot weather vs dark beer, there is also the style Tropical Stout which is definitely a paradox for me. Cheers from France 🍻
@@TheCraftBeerChannel About as odd as an IPA Stout or even more odd Imperial Stout IPA that is just a Stout IPA. The Imperial Stout did not need to be made as hoppy as an IPA and kind of a beer only the people who try to stay on the leading edge of Beers drink. The Imperial Stout was made in Russia after a Ban on imported beer in the 1800's then made as strong as could be due to the higher tax on wine and even higher tax on hard alcohol at the time. However it is Finland now that is making most of this beer, first started in the few parts once owned by Russia started this tradition until the revolution in 1919 when that part joined Russia so they were able to keep making the beer when Russia became communist and had few breweries of anything except a cheap Vodka or some kind of Red Beer they made with a type of Russian Barley as a plain unfiltered wheat beer, different from Belgium Red Beer. This is if it is not niche breweries in the USA or more in Canada making the Imperial Stout.
A really good beer from the norwegian brewery Kinn is Svartekunst (Black Arts), and they call it a Foreign Extra Double Imperial Russian Export Stout Porter ;)
Today I think none of what you're saying in the beginning about porters being sweet and chocolaty and stouts being dry is true. I've had many stouts that are full of chocolate milk notes, red berries sweetness etc... And what you had as a stout is a dry stout like Guiness. But dry stouts are VERY rare. The well known are Guiness, and then maybe Cadillac Mountain Stout from Atlantic Brewing, Maine which is amazing. But the rest of the stouts you can find today are either : big on the sweet side, with chocolate, often coffee, and red fruits. Or big on the alcohol side with leather characters, and even tobacco. Maybe because you drink mostly British beers it's not the same, but I drink mostly American and EU beers, and porters are just less heavy stouts. But both can have coffee, chocolate, be sweet or dry etc... There's not much difference anymore except alcohol and malt. But the aromas can be exactly the same.
I'd have been interested to hear what you think of Guinness Original. Guinness Draft I'll drink if I'm in a pub and am frightened of the other beers, Guinness Original I'll drink by choice (I used to seek out pubs that served bottled Guinness). My dad was from Cork - he'd talk about 'a bottle of stout' or 'a pint of draft'.
Guys great video as always. Love your content. I have a question... Why is it that if you drink to much good quality beer "craft" if you will, your more likely to end up still feeling drunk in the morning than dying from a crushing headache and catastrophic dehydration like you would experience from commercial beers? Yet the ingredients in most beers craft or commercial generally say Malt Hops Barley Water etc theres never any mention of preservatives or stabilisers or added sugars.
Stout IS a stout porter. That's it! Today however they have diverged into separate styles (I guess?). Originally, they were the same thing. Porter was the term coined first, the term stout followed with the advent of stronger darker porters. In modern recipes porter usually has a good amount of chocolate and sometimes crystal (carmel) malts while stout is brewed with roasted barley or very dark malts (like black malt). This is not always the case, just a generalization.
How often do you guys drink? I'm just curious because I get drunk like every night on different styles of beer and watch your videos on the history of said types of beers. So in my mind, you are drinking with me, and also get drunk every night 😂
In 1623 Gervase Markham ( born in Nottingham, a soldier , playwright , author and all round bon viveur ) in ' The English Huswife ' 1625 , lists " Ordinary" and "Second " or "Small " drinke ( mild) using the Guil--fat ( gyle vat ) that everyone drank , a 3 gyled " Marche Beer " " ( spring ale ) with peas ( probably chick peas or grey peas - Parkinsons Paradisus Terrestris 1626 ) wheat and oats , a pale beer for the summer months, and a straight "Strong" ( an Old ale zero or lightly hopped ) , names which have remained with us today . William Cobbett a beer nut that danced around the pubs of East Anglia in an 1823 book devotes a whole 2 chapters to beer production and no mild or stale beer in that tome but confirms the measures and methods used by Markham for the 2X gyled beer . Small beer has stayed in our language used to describe someone incapable of a good fight . Taxing beer in the 17th C under James 1 ( 6 of Scotland ) introduced the X rating . A barrel branded 1X ( over 4 %) attracted tax . Scotland had the shilling rating which still remains . In England this to abuse with traders marking barrels XX , XXX etc to claim a stronger beer . IPA was originally brewed by Hodgsons at the 3 Mills site South of Bow Bridge on the old Roman London to Colchester road and used the quality grain coming from East Anglia , drawing their water from the highest part of the then navigable river . Later the Lea Stort Navigation would make barging down river to waiting ships , a breeze. The stretch of the River Lea to the Thames was a haven for the booze industry in particular London Gin that fuelled Victorian East Enders . Brewed to supply the 260 000 soldiers ( twice the size of the British Army of the day ) employed by the East India Company incorporated in 1600 and NOT the British Army. The EIC took rule of India in 1757 and by 1805 had full control of the high seas trade . The Royal Navy patrolled those routes. Anything of value from Booze to drugs went through the IEC into the ports of India , the colonies down under and Treaty Ports of China . The world and its aunty were supping British beer of all types including Strongs and variants thereof and doing British drugs . Originally a pale well hopped beer of low OG , effectively a well preserved small beer that was cheap , to quench the thirst of their hoards in the East without getting shitfaced . A price hike by the son of Daddy Hodgson and the IEC being short of readies ( yeah right !) , the job went out to tender . Up steps Allsops and clinches the deal with a darker farty brew typical of Burton water . Typically the British abroad dont give a shit what they drink so all is well. Hodgsons didn't just pack up there and then but continued the brewing until eventual demise and sold IPA locally. To cut a long story short after getting slapped by the Indians , the IEC was wound up by the Government in around 1870 . Allsops had partnered with another southern brewery on a cleaner river closer to sea than the Lea and local to the world's largest fishing fleet , The Short Blue at Barking...Ind Coope on the River Rom at Romford. Romford began brewing a well hopped small beer called IPA that was bottled for export and home consumption similar if not the same as Hodgsons . Ind Coope became HUGE and their IPA sold everywhere into the 20th C . Ind Coope produced another pale , well hopped cask conditioned beer called Romford Bitter ( sometime Bulldog ) that sold locally until sometme before closure in 1992 ( part of Allied Breweries by then) . Romford Bitter was a well hopped , lightly fruity balanced bitter of I believe 1038 OG , really refreshing in the stinking hot summer ot 1976 . A delightful all day quaffing beer .This sat side by side with a " Burton Ale " probably another legacy from their earlier wedding with Allsops .
Porter wasn’t a bottle beer. It was poured from 2 barrels. One to put life in it which took five minutes to settles. Then the main pour which was heavy.
This isn't true I'm afraid - or at least it muddles a few things. First, porter was indeed draught - but all beer was in the early days of porter. In pubs it would have been poured into a glass from barrel or into a bottle to be consumed or taken away. As for the two pour method, that is not specific to Guinness. For most ales at the time, anyone who wanted to order a blend of stale or mild (that is, aged or fresh) might have had a pour from two barrels but the consumer chose based on their tastes and indeed budget (stale was more expensive). That said I am not certain this was even done with Porter because, unlike most beers at the time, it was aged in the brewery already (rather than at the pub like most stale beer).
@@TheCraftBeerChannelThe muddle was not that it was not true. That is your muddle. The combination of the 2 was more than just making money, it was a taste flavor. Guinness wanted to reproduce the cream top with the round ping pong balls in their cans, hiding behind "freshness", and not "If by volume we put a ball in a can, then we can fill the can less." (Marketing tactic). The aged beer was not because there was more flavor. The older barrels turned to foam when "shaken" in transport. The newer barrels were mixed with the older. What resulted was a great drink, but cost the same, and should have been less. I have no idea why your common sense would never realize this.
@Cirathos I think we are all muddled and talking about different things/eras. Guinness in the 20th century was indeed a two part pour for the reasons you described - Porter in the 19th was probably not, but most other ale was. In my mind the OP was not talking about Guinness, but about 19th century porter. Still, the "shaking" of the Cask is not accurate. That would settle very quickly. It would be down to the attenuation of the older beer, if anything.
Guinness definitely defined the stout for the rest of the world. And the IPA story getting debunked amuses me to no end. Americans own the IPA, especially the West Coast.
brilliant video lads! super engaging and entertaining! first time the difference has ever been explained without me losing interest half way through XD
ok I like prob all porters ..breakfast stout is 1 of the smoothest I had.not sure if breakfast stout is oatmeal stout or not.most coffee stouts like rogue for ex.is more bitter to me.the Russian imperial I think most are over 11 or 12%.a few over that. they can be really good but on the bitter side too. 1 if my fav in a bottle is samyel6 Smith's nut brown ale & the oatmeal stout.. the chocolate is good but very much a dessert stout.so I know of loke 6 stout.oatmeal, coffee. russian imperial. imperial. breakfast stout chocolate stout. vanilla stout, Christmas stout, dessert stout . creme brulee stouts..
Irish porter was known as plain and drawn from 2 barrels, i don't believe any of these modern fancy craft beers are anything like the original porter. Stout basically meant strong beer.
recommend both ...... dont see porter often but its very good ... // not keen on tinned bottle or keg is usually best .. appreciate guiness is diffrent drink but guiness varies around the world ... // from dublin guiness to nigerian guiness both good just different ..
Greetings from Ireland. I don't know what the modern day difference is supposed to be but back in the day when the Guinness manufacturing process wouldn't have been as consistent as modern methods (Even differences in Barley moisture content made a big difference for example). Guinness used an X rating to grade the output (I've always assumed this is where Castlemaine XXXX naming came from, probably an industry grading for Beer?). Anyway, the XXX rating was the best quality and most expensive, porter was the lowest quality (single X) and drunk by the working class and they called it Porter. Even my Grandfather always referred to Guinness as porter. That's what I was told by a very dedicated Guinness drinker once upon a time (Chris Corr RIP), so our definition of Porter might be different.
In my view, the difference between a stout and a porter is roasted barley in the grain bill for stout. Plus, porter would normally have crystal malt, which gives it a sweeter finish. A stout normally does not have crystal malt. The lack of crystal malt would produce a dry finish that you get in stout.
W B Mew, Langton & Co , Royal Brewery, Croker St ,Isle of Wight Brewed at least Three Porters , Porter, Export Porter and the Gibraltar Porter , which was a sporadically brewed beer; probably for export to Army & Navy Canteens . I've just completed a comprehensive study of the records of W B Mew Langton 1884-91 Cheers 🍻
One of the best beers I've ever had, Darwin Brewery's Flag Porter. Can't get it in the USA any more, but you guys should still be able to get it semi-locally.
My experience with Porters and Stouts, at least in America, is that Porters tend to be a bit darker and roastier - like Anchor Porter or Founders Porter which are my favorites. Stouts tend to be a bit creamier and sweeter, especially Guinness, which I find to be a very refreshing drink. I don't find Guinness to be roasty at all.
Bit baffled by this! Modern porters should have some roast, but really be about fruitiness and lighter shades of chocolate. Stout (as we explain in the video) comes from removing the malts that add that fruity character. Guinness is a great beer but not quite a classic stout as it's a "creamed" beer (poured with nitrogen) and sweeter than most stouts but it's still pretty roasty toasty...at least in the UK it is!
Historically the difference is just the strength. The ingredients were identical since Stout and Porter were partigyled from the same mash. Have you ever read the writings of Ron Pattinson? Sometimes it seems not.
not sure if anyone else is picking up on the audio, but it's jumping around a lot. probably due to Jonny moving his head. changing the distance from the mic. It might have been fixable in the edit through Compressors, Limiters, and Gates
Ready for more beer history - but even BIGGER. Check out our video asking What Even is Imperial Stout: ruclips.net/video/5G8fs6tY0U0/видео.html
This might be the first time I've ever clicked on a RUclips video with 0 views. What am I meant to do...? FIIIIIIRST!!!11!!!
Guiness was the beer that taught be that beer could actually be enjoyable. In the US college students almost exclusively buy the cheapest American Lagers. I could not stomach them and being young and dumb assumed beers were all terrible. Then a friend gave me a Guinness and it was good!
Guinness may not be my favorite beer anymore but I still have a special place in my heart for it and other stouts for opening my mind to better beers. 🍻
I was a Guinness drinker myself til about 22. Never enjoyed those mass made lagers and Guinness had so much going on. Still a great stout.
As an American, before the craft beer movement happened; Guinness was the first one to teach me 'there's more than just pilsners out there.' My love of stouts is definitely influenced by Guinness.
I feel fortunate to have come of age in Fort Collins Colorado. We had Odell Brewing and New Belgium Brewing companies. I had access to really good microbrews so I never had to navigate the cheap American Lager college days.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel One of the very few Macro brews which have taste and quaffable
Guinness is what got me into stouts and stouts are pretty much all I drink now.
Lunchtime here on the East Coast of the U.S. and you're making me crack a Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter on a Wednesday. Lol. Very cool episode, fellas.
Great video, but hearing some sound issues. Anybody else?
Yip same. thought its on my side.
Thought it were my earphones😂
YEah, sound problems hear too!
yea
Fella on the left is always turning his head away from his mic.
Pure porter in a pub was poured from 2 kegs. 1 was the black, thick heart of the pint the 2nd the cream. When serving, you'd pour the white 1st and let it settle, top up with the black and skim the top with a knife and top up with a little more of the black. It's sad it's gone from Ireland since the early 70's. A taste we will never get to experience.
The blog. Shut up about Barclay Perkins, has some information about old Irish beers. I think you could come close to recreating it again with that information.
The serving process is shown is this BBC clip from 1973, which poetically laments “The Last Days of Porter”:
ruclips.net/video/ZKDwwVR5fd4/видео.html
@@DebatingWombatthanks for this
All this time, I thought that the yellow thing on the lovely SMEG heater was the handle. Mind... blown.
In my opinion, Guinness could be described as crisp as it it very light bodied. To me their traditional Stout is very thin, compared to Imperial and other styles.
A couple friends of mine and I have a Facebook page devoted to Stouts and Porters.
What's it called? I'm always in pursuit of a good Stout. Its my favorite type of beer.
Look up guinness varities
@@oscarosullivan4513 absolutely! I was speaking of their basic formula sold in every bar.
They do have some great colors!
@@bobbyingals Draught is nice out of a can but clearly better out of the tap
@@oscarosullivan4513 yessir.
About the “it’s all wild yeast before the 19th century,” I think it’s worth pointing that even though there were no off-the-shelf yeasts back then, the fact that brewers would reuse the yeast from the old batch into the new batch (backslopping) made it so that yeasts were essentially in the process of being domesticated. Recent DNA analysis found that our current strains can be dated to 16th century ancestors or so. So unlike lambic that harvest new yeast every time (and even then, there are plenty of localized yeasts to each brewery), old breweries were pitching yeast, but they mostly had the house strain available.
Absolutely! This is a video I have been trying to conceptualize and explain to people but I cant find a fun way to do it!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Go for it! Maybe you could dress up as yeast shepherds...
Some UK breweries still repitch - Harvey's have been doing since the 1950s. And have picked all sorts of other yeast in the process.
Indeed.Hundreds do in a way - though most dont go past a few generations for replacing the strain with a fresh one from a lab.
I’ve got David Heath’s London Porter recipe on tap right now. Highly recommended.
Hmm. Not sure if this really correct. I don't see a lot of evidence of this from reading the bjcp style guidelines. Stouts and porters of various styles can both be sweet or dry and they can definately both be pretty roasty. Some stouts can also be pretty low on roast like modern fruited/pastry/vanilla stouts
Really? Just read them and porter says "Moderate to moderately low bready, biscuity, and toasty malt aroma with mild roastiness, and may have a chocolate quality"
Then the stout: "A black beer with a pronounced roasted flavor, often similar to coffee. The balance can range from fairly even to quite bitter"
Of course other styles of porter and stout taste different, but they are different styles! Just like NEIPA and WCIPA have little in common.
Also worth saying that BJCP is not the bible on beer styles. It's heavily americanised and also designed for judging categories more than for drinkers.
Lovely discussion on Stout and Porter - Always enjoyable to watch you fellows, always learn much. Cheers!
Excellent vid, glad you mentioned the Guinness porte/stout marketing flip. In truth it's like the difference between a pale ale and an IPA, it is really just down to whoever came up with the recipe and put the lable on it.
And even then some Pale Ale the one from Serria Nevada is an IPA in terms of the hops level but is not really a true IPA due to the strength.
I love these sofa videos. You guys have entertaining dynamic. Always such feelgood atmosphere.
Thanks Juha! Glad you like them!
Thank you kindly juha 🍻
Brown malt has a very peculiar, strong flavour. Some of that funky weirdness and complexity in the Gibraltar is probably the brown malt. Where I work we made a brown ale for a contractor using quite a lot of brown malt - it was not an easy drink.
That's doubly true if there is some smoked malt thrown in there as well. I once made a "smoked brown" and overdid it a bit and was consequently barely able to finish a bottle (which is otherwise never a problem, not even with very high abv beers, lol) and the batch (despite being a small, test one) lasted well over a year.
Thank you. I love both of these styles but now I know why. I also love history. Beer and Scotch. Would love to get that Gibraltar Porter. Do they sell it in Canada?
Stout gives you gout, porter gets you slaughtered. Just remember that one hundred percent reliable rhyme. Boom!
Forget the Belgian Bus Tour, CBC African Tour is what we want to see!
Haha - we'd love to explore beer culture in some less Westernised countries and see the differences. The love of stout is definitely one of those things for Western Africa!
Stouts tastes too medicinal for me
My wife and I went to Ireland and had the opportunity to do the Guinness Brewery tour. Not only do I enjoy Guinness from time to time, knowing the history of Guinness makes it taste even better knowing you are drinking a part of Irish history.
Beamish is better in my opinion
@@RazPerignonBeamish is absolute dirt and I wouldn't give it to my worst enemy.
@@1992ravefan lol really? I heard out the can is terrible
@@RazPerignon It's terrible altogether whether it comes in a pint or a can because the taste is foul.
@@1992ravefan I don’t remember it tasting foul at all, what would you consider a good stout besides Guinness?
Stout in hot climes? Hell yes! We drink sh*tloads of Guinness & Bellhaven Black here in the jungles of Thailand.
Historically, there was absolutely no difference. Stout was just the name given to stronger Porters. In London, Porter and Stout were regularly parti-gyled together so their recipes were identical. That continued right up until the 1940s.
The stuff on 18th century styles you got totally wrong. The two main styles were Beer and Ale. Which came in three colours and could both either be sold mild or stale. Mild Ale in the 18th century wasn't weak. Lots would have been 7% ABV or more.
The Kernel East India Porter is probably based on one of my recipes. I know their 1890 Export Stout was.
Most English brewers didn't use brown malt after 1850. The exception was London, where Whitbread were still using brown malt in the 1970s.
Dry Stout only really dates from the 1950s, when Guinness Extra Stout's attenuation was bumped up from 75% to 85%. Before that, it had been no drier than London Stout.
Hey are you Ron Pattison, if so apologies and thanks for the clarifications! We didn't mean to imply mild was weak, only that given the nature of the fermentations it would have been weaker than the the stale beer on offer.
We do literally say in the video there was no difference between stout and porter other than strength and that the names diverged only as a marketing change (we should have said how much later this happened.)
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yes, that's me.
Porter and Stout have a complex history. I'm always learning more. ( I got a look in the Guinness archives a couple of years ago. Only a little glimpse, but enough to be very instructive.) Martyn Cornell's upcoming book on Porter will doubtless teach me a whole lot more. Did you see his blogpost on Jamaican Porter? All totally new to me. I'm sure it will contain a lot more revelations.
We spoke a few weeks back about porter and he didnt even mention it! I will hunt it down.
I thought that dry stout was older and was called dry because of the absence of milk
Stout is stout because it’s a description... (Think “I’m a little teapot short and stout” etc) Guinness literally was called Guinness extra stout Porter... as it was a fuller/bigger kind of porter then they dropped the Porter bit of the name
These are my favorite style of show from you guys. Hope to see more in the future 👍🏻👏🏻
Great video! Have always wondered what the difference is. Really enjoyed your format in explaining while drinking and chatting! Cheers from Vancouver Canada =)
Someone had to do this. And I'm glad it was you.
I think your sidekick is there to drink beer but not so much have any comments about it lol
If it has no body and tastes like raw, liquid potato, it's a porter.
If it's a strong, dark beer that you'd want to drink when it's cold outside and you deserve to have one with some pistacchios or cheese because you were a champ at work today, it's a stout. Grab a Samuel Smith and come watch the match with me, good friend!
Actually knew this stuff already, but you still get a thumbs-up for presenting it so succinctly. Good job, gents.
For any UK Mainland beer lovers I'd reccomend Harvey's Porter (Harveys Brewery is based in Lewes, East Sussex , England). Their Porter recipe is the same as their original recipe from 1859 (that's what the brewery claim anyways). Their Porter is one of my favorite beers and I couldn't recommend it more!
100% the smell out back and the shop near the bridge great combination just wonderful.
I have one for you- Titanic’s Plum Porter. Not traditional but it’s delicious
Thanks for making this video. I’ve always wondered what the difference was and this explains it in great detail. Cheers guys!
It's got chocolate.
"yeah, chocolate."
Graham cracker.
"graham cracker!"
Berries.
"Yeah, Berries too."
My man hired a parrot.
Dear Mr. javagoblin1585 your comment is very rude. These gentlemen have done a lot of good work in the beer scene and deserve respect. Sir. Jonny Garrett and Sir. Brad Evans, that´s the names you called them.
i've tried 115 stouts and 37 different porters and i find them mostly indistinguishable.
Then you have tried 152 Porters, as Stout is a variety of Porter. You probably know this.
Yeah. There's no functional difference. There's like 10 styles.of porter but some.of them get called.stout.
Porter and Stout. My favorites!
Not sure why anyone would restrict dark beers to a season or climate. It's frustrating to get a good dark beer or imperial only in winter.
The difference is made up
Found you by accident....
I'm fortunate to have a local pub that brews mostly English Ales, Belgians, German beers.
Recent offers are a Dark winter Ale (spiced a bit), an Ould Brown Ale, Porter, Stout, and the latest offers include a Belgian Saison with rye and sage. Wish you were here to try them.
Tell ya what, if you two lads show up here in Plymouth MA I'll buy you a round.
Fantastic video ! Now for the hot weather vs dark beer, there is also the style Tropical Stout which is definitely a paradox for me. Cheers from France 🍻
Oh god yeah I forgot that brewers are trying to push that through!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel About as odd as an IPA Stout or even more odd Imperial Stout IPA that is just a Stout IPA. The Imperial Stout did not need to be made as hoppy as an IPA and kind of a beer only the people who try to stay on the leading edge of Beers drink. The Imperial Stout was made in Russia after a Ban on imported beer in the 1800's then made as strong as could be due to the higher tax on wine and even higher tax on hard alcohol at the time. However it is Finland now that is making most of this beer, first started in the few parts once owned by Russia started this tradition until the revolution in 1919 when that part joined Russia so they were able to keep making the beer when Russia became communist and had few breweries of anything except a cheap Vodka or some kind of Red Beer they made with a type of Russian Barley as a plain unfiltered wheat beer, different from Belgium Red Beer. This is if it is not niche breweries in the USA or more in Canada making the Imperial Stout.
A really good beer from the norwegian brewery Kinn is Svartekunst (Black Arts), and they call it a Foreign Extra Double Imperial Russian Export Stout Porter ;)
I.... I can only respect this level of trolling in beer names.
Porters and stouts are mostly all I ever drink when it comes to beer.
Good information. I was under the impression that a stout is a lagered beer, while a porter is an ale. I learn something new every day.
Today I think none of what you're saying in the beginning about porters being sweet and chocolaty and stouts being dry is true. I've had many stouts that are full of chocolate milk notes, red berries sweetness etc... And what you had as a stout is a dry stout like Guiness. But dry stouts are VERY rare. The well known are Guiness, and then maybe Cadillac Mountain Stout from Atlantic Brewing, Maine which is amazing. But the rest of the stouts you can find today are either : big on the sweet side, with chocolate, often coffee, and red fruits. Or big on the alcohol side with leather characters, and even tobacco. Maybe because you drink mostly British beers it's not the same, but I drink mostly American and EU beers, and porters are just less heavy stouts. But both can have coffee, chocolate, be sweet or dry etc... There's not much difference anymore except alcohol and malt. But the aromas can be exactly the same.
I'd have been interested to hear what you think of Guinness Original. Guinness Draft I'll drink if I'm in a pub and am frightened of the other beers, Guinness Original I'll drink by choice (I used to seek out pubs that served bottled Guinness). My dad was from Cork - he'd talk about 'a bottle of stout' or 'a pint of draft'.
Guys great video as always. Love your content. I have a question... Why is it that if you drink to much good quality beer "craft" if you will, your more likely to end up still feeling drunk in the morning than dying from a crushing headache and catastrophic dehydration like you would experience from commercial beers? Yet the ingredients in most beers craft or commercial generally say Malt Hops Barley Water etc theres never any mention of preservatives or stabilisers or added sugars.
Coopers bottle-aged EXTRA Stout from South Australia cannot be excelled.
It is the pinnacle of the art.
Each bottle has a "Best After" date!
Stout IS a stout porter. That's it! Today however they have diverged into separate styles (I guess?). Originally, they were the same thing. Porter was the term coined first, the term stout followed with the advent of stronger darker porters. In modern recipes porter usually has a good amount of chocolate and sometimes crystal (carmel) malts while stout is brewed with roasted barley or very dark malts (like black malt). This is not always the case, just a generalization.
P.s. I'm a professional brew master. I know what I'm talking about as I have brewed many porters and stouts over the years. Cheers!
I was hoping to see them say technically there isn’t a difference roll credits and then get into what they’ve come to imply.
Yeah. Many styles.of.pprter. some of them just get called stout in style guidelines. It's stupid. They should revamp the bjcp really.
How often do you guys drink? I'm just curious because I get drunk like every night on different styles of beer and watch your videos on the history of said types of beers. So in my mind, you are drinking with me, and also get drunk every night 😂
In 1623 Gervase Markham ( born in Nottingham, a soldier , playwright , author and all round bon viveur ) in ' The
English Huswife ' 1625 , lists " Ordinary" and "Second " or "Small " drinke ( mild) using the Guil--fat ( gyle vat ) that everyone drank , a 3 gyled " Marche Beer " " ( spring ale ) with peas ( probably chick peas or grey peas - Parkinsons Paradisus Terrestris 1626 ) wheat and oats , a pale beer for the summer months, and a straight "Strong" ( an Old ale zero or lightly hopped ) , names which have remained with us today . William Cobbett a beer nut that danced around the pubs of East Anglia in an 1823 book devotes a whole 2 chapters to beer production and no mild or stale beer in that tome but confirms the measures and methods used by Markham for the 2X gyled beer . Small beer has stayed in our language used to describe someone incapable of a good fight .
Taxing beer in the 17th C under James 1 ( 6 of Scotland ) introduced the X rating . A barrel branded 1X ( over 4 %) attracted tax . Scotland had the shilling rating which still remains . In England this to abuse with traders marking barrels XX , XXX etc to claim a stronger beer .
IPA was originally brewed by Hodgsons at the 3 Mills site South of Bow Bridge on the old Roman London to Colchester road and used the quality grain coming from East Anglia , drawing their water from the highest part of the then navigable river . Later the Lea Stort Navigation would make barging down river to waiting ships , a breeze. The stretch of the River Lea to the Thames was a haven for the booze industry in particular London Gin that fuelled Victorian East Enders . Brewed to supply the 260 000 soldiers ( twice the size of the British Army of the day ) employed by the East India Company incorporated in 1600 and NOT the British Army. The EIC took rule of India in 1757 and by 1805 had full control of the high seas trade . The Royal Navy patrolled those routes. Anything of value from Booze to drugs went through the IEC into the ports of India , the colonies down under and Treaty Ports of China . The world and its aunty were supping British beer of all types including Strongs and variants thereof and doing British drugs .
Originally a pale well hopped beer of low OG , effectively a well preserved small beer that was cheap , to quench the thirst of their hoards in the East without getting shitfaced . A price hike by the son of Daddy Hodgson and the IEC being short of readies ( yeah right !) , the job went out to tender . Up steps Allsops and clinches the deal with a darker farty brew typical of Burton water . Typically the British abroad dont give a shit what they drink so all is well. Hodgsons didn't just pack up there and then but continued the brewing until eventual demise and sold IPA locally. To cut a long story short after getting slapped by the Indians , the IEC was wound up by the Government in around 1870 . Allsops had partnered with another southern brewery on a cleaner river closer to sea than the Lea and local to the world's largest fishing fleet , The Short Blue at Barking...Ind Coope on the River Rom at Romford.
Romford began brewing a well hopped small beer called IPA that was bottled for export and home consumption similar if not the same as Hodgsons . Ind Coope became HUGE and their IPA sold everywhere into the 20th C . Ind Coope produced another pale , well hopped cask conditioned beer called Romford Bitter ( sometime Bulldog ) that sold locally until sometme before closure in 1992 ( part of Allied Breweries by then) .
Romford Bitter was a well hopped , lightly fruity balanced bitter of I believe 1038 OG , really refreshing in the stinking hot summer ot 1976 . A delightful all day quaffing beer .This sat side by side with a " Burton Ale " probably another legacy from their earlier wedding with Allsops .
How do you get some of this good stuff to the United States???? The Gibraltar Stout??!! Man!!!
Porter wasn’t a bottle beer. It was poured from 2 barrels. One to put life in it which took five minutes to settles. Then the main pour which was heavy.
This isn't true I'm afraid - or at least it muddles a few things. First, porter was indeed draught - but all beer was in the early days of porter. In pubs it would have been poured into a glass from barrel or into a bottle to be consumed or taken away. As for the two pour method, that is not specific to Guinness. For most ales at the time, anyone who wanted to order a blend of stale or mild (that is, aged or fresh) might have had a pour from two barrels but the consumer chose based on their tastes and indeed budget (stale was more expensive). That said I am not certain this was even done with Porter because, unlike most beers at the time, it was aged in the brewery already (rather than at the pub like most stale beer).
@@TheCraftBeerChannelThe muddle was not that it was not true. That is your muddle. The combination of the 2 was more than just making money, it was a taste flavor. Guinness wanted to reproduce the cream top with the round ping pong balls in their cans, hiding behind "freshness", and not "If by volume we put a ball in a can, then we can fill the can less." (Marketing tactic). The aged beer was not because there was more flavor. The older barrels turned to foam when "shaken" in transport. The newer barrels were mixed with the older. What resulted was a great drink, but cost the same, and should have been less. I have no idea why your common sense would never realize this.
@Cirathos I think we are all muddled and talking about different things/eras. Guinness in the 20th century was indeed a two part pour for the reasons you described - Porter in the 19th was probably not, but most other ale was. In my mind the OP was not talking about Guinness, but about 19th century porter.
Still, the "shaking" of the Cask is not accurate. That would settle very quickly. It would be down to the attenuation of the older beer, if anything.
Dude on the left has to be a relative of Andy Kaufman.
You can't get Porter from a glass. It was poured from two different kegs and was discontinued in the early 1970's. It was known as a pint of plain.
Guinness definitely defined the stout for the rest of the world. And the IPA story getting debunked amuses me to no end. Americans own the IPA, especially the West Coast.
brilliant video lads! super engaging and entertaining! first time the difference has ever been explained without me losing interest half way through XD
Cheers Peter! Glad we kept it fresh!
Whats a black owned brewery? Is their stout their flagship?
It is owned by a black man, which is sadly a unique thing in the UK right now.
I've tried 2-3 different porters til now. They were all sweet syrup tasting. Nothing beery about them.
ok I like prob all porters ..breakfast stout is 1 of the smoothest I had.not sure if breakfast stout is oatmeal stout or not.most coffee stouts like rogue for ex.is more bitter to me.the Russian imperial I think most are over 11 or 12%.a few over that. they can be really good but on the bitter side too. 1 if my fav in a bottle is samyel6 Smith's nut brown ale & the oatmeal stout.. the chocolate is good but very much a dessert stout.so I know of loke 6 stout.oatmeal, coffee. russian imperial. imperial. breakfast stout chocolate stout. vanilla stout, Christmas stout, dessert stout . creme brulee stouts..
Irish porter was known as plain and drawn from 2 barrels, i don't believe any of these modern fancy craft beers are anything like the original porter. Stout basically meant strong beer.
What is your favourite Stout or Porter?
What do you like? What can you get? Sounds like bs. Enjoy what is available.
I’m a big fan of Russian Imperial Stout!!! Especially Old Rasputin
recommend both ...... dont see porter often but its very good ... // not keen on tinned bottle or keg is usually best .. appreciate guiness is diffrent drink but guiness varies around the world ... // from dublin guiness to nigerian guiness both good just different ..
The guy in the black shirt. Is his job to save us from rewinding by repeating everything the smart guy says?
These two blokes are living the dream. Great vid.
The biggest difference that I can tell, while they've both got a "burnt toast & diet coke" flavor. Stout also has a sorta metal aftertaste.
Greetings from Ireland. I don't know what the modern day difference is supposed to be but back in the day when the Guinness manufacturing process wouldn't have been as consistent as modern methods (Even differences in Barley moisture content made a big difference for example). Guinness used an X rating to grade the output (I've always assumed this is where Castlemaine XXXX naming came from, probably an industry grading for Beer?). Anyway, the XXX rating was the best quality and most expensive, porter was the lowest quality (single X) and drunk by the working class and they called it Porter. Even my Grandfather always referred to Guinness as porter. That's what I was told by a very dedicated Guinness drinker once upon a time (Chris Corr RIP), so our definition of Porter might be different.
Britts know nothing about real porter. Ask people from Baltic Sea region and you'll get the notion.
I could watch these couch session videos forever. Bravo boys. You guys are the Howard cosell, Don Meredith of craft beer (google it)👍🏻🍻❤️😁
I would just put a small drop in a glass. And drink the rest. If you watch your video your doing a lot of swirling ... Great video. ..
The way yall say cracker only reminded me of the slang for white person that was yelled at me by a homeless person in NYC lmao.
Although I quit drinking, I still feel very excited to see your video
We need to educate people and get porter/ flat back in the pubs.
Yes!
👍🏿
All I see is Stouts and Imp stouts.
Rock Leopard gets a mention but Eko Brewing is also black owned.
In my view, the difference between a stout and a porter is roasted barley in the grain bill for stout.
Plus, porter would normally have crystal malt, which gives it a sweeter finish. A stout normally does not have crystal malt. The lack of crystal malt would produce a dry finish that you get in stout.
I think, deep down inside, I've always known that porters are crisp, but you're the first to actually put it into words
Everytime I drink a stout it makes me think of a Porter but slightly hoppy
Monschof Schwartz Pilsner is the most delicious beer I have ever tried
W B Mew, Langton & Co , Royal Brewery, Croker St ,Isle of Wight
Brewed at least Three Porters , Porter, Export Porter and the Gibraltar Porter , which was a sporadically brewed beer; probably for export to Army & Navy Canteens .
I've just completed a comprehensive study of the records of W B Mew Langton 1884-91
Cheers 🍻
W B Mew, Langton & Co ,
Gibraltar Porter
Tuesday 17 Th September 1889
Gyle No 234 , 5.75 % ABV 52-4 IBU
Cheers 🍻
Please look up the history of stout and porter. Because they were not black. Ok.
Rectangles and squares, that's the difference.
I've never had a good guinness in a hot country, that said I've had some shockers here in the UK
Drinking a real guinness porter while watching this
One of the best beers I've ever had, Darwin Brewery's Flag Porter. Can't get it in the USA any more, but you guys should still be able to get it semi-locally.
stout roast barley - poter chocolate malt - milk stout black malt and lactose@
The subtitles are whacked because of the English accent.
Stouts and Porters are my fave! But I lean toward Stouts. *slurp*
My experience with Porters and Stouts, at least in America, is that Porters tend to be a bit darker and roastier - like Anchor Porter or Founders Porter which are my favorites. Stouts tend to be a bit creamier and sweeter, especially Guinness, which I find to be a very refreshing drink. I don't find Guinness to be roasty at all.
Bit baffled by this! Modern porters should have some roast, but really be about fruitiness and lighter shades of chocolate. Stout (as we explain in the video) comes from removing the malts that add that fruity character. Guinness is a great beer but not quite a classic stout as it's a "creamed" beer (poured with nitrogen) and sweeter than most stouts but it's still pretty roasty toasty...at least in the UK it is!
Then there is Milk Stout. Think Mackeson is the famous one.
Your mic is driving my batshit bonkers mate.
Just imagine the old boys watching this in Dublin,
My favourite stouts remind me of ashtrays. Sounds strange but I love that
Doesn't really matter, they're both better than any IPA!!
It is very simple: Stout tastes good, Porter doesn't.
A porter is just a stout that someone opened and left outside in the sun for a couple of days.
What I don't like about this video is one glass for all the beers?
Historically the difference is just the strength. The ingredients were identical since Stout and Porter were partigyled from the same mash. Have you ever read the writings of Ron Pattinson? Sometimes it seems not.
We say exactly that in the video, then explain how the term has changed meaning. Not quite sure of the issue here.
If you don't mind, I'd like to share this in my beer appreciation class on Stouts and Porters. Cheers!
I always thought of stouts as strong(stout) porters.
not sure if anyone else is picking up on the audio, but it's jumping around a lot. probably due to Jonny moving his head. changing the distance from the mic. It might have been fixable in the edit through Compressors, Limiters, and Gates
It's a faulty mic unfortunately down to a loose connection. Sadly only heard once in the edit.
Porter should be more drinkable than a stout
A stout can't carry your luggage! :D