Shadows of Change Expansion Confirmed! Creative Assembly Statement Breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Link to statement: www.totalwar.c...
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Well I SHOULD HAVE read the Pharaoh portion because they proceeded to change the price on that game to better match expectations! 😅😅
That being said, I'd still prefer they simply add MORE to Shadows of Change and ToD to make the content match the price, so I'm glad they went with that option! But that's because I'm a greedy bastard and I want MORE!
But they *ARE* adding more content to Shadows of Change and Thrones of Decay. That's why Thrones is being delayed.
Yes indeed! I just meant that they COULD have taken the angle of making the DLC cheaper instead of adding new things to it, but I'm glad they're taking the option of adding more. @@SleepyFen
Yeah… this comment confuses me that’s explicitly what they said, right? That they are assuming more content?
@@Rhinopotamusas he clarified, he's glad they are adding rather then making the DLC cheaper
Sotek, really appreciated the fact you didn’t pile into CA with loads of cheap shot videos to get views. You gave them space to make things like. That takes a bit of class, well done mate.
I am glad to see they took the criticism and took responsibility. Hopefully what they add will make the DLC worth the price tag
Fingers crossed
did they? i only saw words and corpospeak so far.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@luiscosta1899 The fact they’re promising to add more to a DLC that everyone said was undercooked means they listened to the people who said it was not worth the cost. Whatever the content is that’s added will decide that but it’s better than what I expected. Which was for them to ignore it and just move onto the next DLC
@@luiscosta1899don't condemn someone for making a promise to do better. Condemn them if they don't follow through. Otherwise what incentive do they have to be transparent and communicate with us if people like you are going to tell them to go fuck themselves for their efforts?
"To address that, we are enhancing our offer for everyone who purchased Shadows of Change with more content and a commitment to ensuring that we better meet your expectations going forward.
We’re targeting a major update to Shadows of Change which will arrive free for everyone who owns it."
Happy to see these words, it really does give me some hope that they pay attention when the community gets upset. It might take a while, but that's how long it'd take for it to get to the top.
I really, really dont see anything about this apology as honest. They're literally only doing this because SEGA told them that they done goofed by ignoring their clients and mistreating them, costing them money.
I would believe this if it were unprompted but it took their bosses slapping them to get them to "apologize". It feels like dad is watchinf them, cross armed, waiting for them to apologize you know?
The last genuine un-interferenced communication we got was from their boss who threatened us.
Not trying to he pessimistic its just its a fake apology becauae them being awful cost them money, and their japaneae bosses axed their budgets... like if they could.keep getting away with being awful they would.
It'll be interesting to see how their plans pan out for 2024. I really hope they're going ALL IN on the Shadows of Change free content to really demonstrate that they're taking this seriously.
@@rodrigosouza8471idk where poeple like you get the idea that this is all papa sega's credit when Sega literally has no hand in any of this. You probably believe the layoffs were Sega "punishing" CA for the drama too, in spite of this being demonstrably false. I recommend you unsub from the RUclipsrs who are only feeding you that bs because they're fueling the flames to generate more viewer engagements for the algorithm.
If u to young, and dont know game like CENTURION: Defender of Rome (1990) AMIGA. U should play and say what was change in Total War series about 30 years. 🤣Centurion have all what Total War have + gladiator fight's, chariots races, and fleet battles. And it was on 2 FDD - 1,5 Megabyte od data. 😆Well maybe there was no champions. All the rest is the same for 30 years. 😂
They should also fix the changeling campaign mechanich that is atrocious currently, and separate the ostankya units roster from the other kislev roster until at least military alliance (or confederation)
Also downgrade a little yuan bo
The most important thing is that they still want to go hard on supporting it. I want to see this game get as big as it possibly could.
Last cashcow in the company left...they have no other choice
The way I understand it, SEGA doesn't give them a choice in the matter. Still, it's good news and those have been rare in the last couple of months.
They would be foolish not to. Total war Warhammer is sooo much bigger than any game CA has or ever had and still has a lot of potential to work with to create more product. Now obviously ego makes fools out of everyone but at the same time greed should make them relize that total war warhammer is where the money lies
I mean they just burned 100 million pounds. Pharoes is doa, this game is their only source of income at this point
this game is something special i think. it's a time capsule of the tabletop games lore, which is why i hope they have more people "Not technically around at the time of the game" like repanse. add gorbad ironclaw and others
I'm happy that they accepted that they betrayed our trust, and apologized for that. And I'm even more happy to see that they'll add more to SoC. Í never picked it up because I didn't feel that it was worth it, but if they add enough good stuff I'd happily buy it because the things they showed were good, just not enough
I'm glad it more people avoided the DLC than I expected. I'm not one to consciously allow myself to be scammed. We will see the how the result pans out.
I think everyone who decided to wait on the DLC can feel quite content with their decision! Also good to see Thrones of Decay is just going to reveal everything quite early in the marketing rather than drip feeding out as if to lure people in without revealing what all is being purchased. Very consumer friendly.
I like the hype they build the month previous to launch. If you think you overpaid, you can always get a refund up to some days after release. However, charging a substantial price for something not worth it and when people complain you mistreat them, it's just wrong.
I like that they said they made a mistake and said sorry. Really refreshing from a big company. It makes me more hopeful for CA next year.
I do feel like this is just another tactic they use to sway us. The apologies feel as genuine as RUclipsr apologies.
Its more like they aren't sorry they are sorry that they are missing out on money
Papa SEGA must've beaten them down so hard in the last few months. We know SEGA stepped in to clean up the mess recently and I don't reckon, with the way CA has behaved in the last 10 years, this sudden change came from CA truly realising the problem on their own.
Yeah right, they learnt nothing, Pharoah at it's core is the entire problem. Making it free or adding more features would not fix the game. The price was never the issue, the whole problem was the core game.
If u to young, and dont know game like CENTURION: Defender of Rome (1990) AMIGA. U should play and say what was change in Total War series about 30 years. 🤣Centurion have all what Total War have + gladiator fight's, chariots races, and fleet battles. And it was on 2 FDD - 1,5 Megabyte od data. 😆Well maybe there was no champions. All the rest is the same for 30 years. 😂
Please dont believe this chatgpt apology... Its just corporate strategy aimed exactly at ppl like you, who look at them with puppy eyes after they were let out of their rotten dungeon for 1 minute to see sunlight
Honestly, this is about as good as I expected. No way in Hell CA would drop price on already sold DLC and I don't expect them to lower it on the ToD (or any Warhammer DLC for that matter), what I do expect (at least now) - is an appropriate amount of content for such price.
Wow, this is… genuinely astonishing. I’ve never seen a developer response like this.
On Pharaoh, I do hope it grows into something successful, and I’m worried now that they’ve removed the bigger editions that it won’t get the long-term support it needs.
I think Pharaoh is and can be a fine game for what it is. I don't think it needs to be a decade-long product to be good, just like Shogun and Rome weren't either.
That price change I think will help immensely, at least I think so. Seems to be put at a more reasonable starting price and the commitment to add free content in the Sea Peoples seems like an excellent first step.
Play Hell Let Loose and you will see that angry players can force change on a developer making bad decisions. Does it always happen? No, but the people who told you and other we have no voice, no hope, so sit down, shut up, and buy the DLC… they were wrong, but not only that they lied to you.
Personally, I think they shot themselves in the foot with Pharaoh by copying the resource system from Troy, arguably the WORST feature of that game. Nobody liked the resource system, and the tedious management of it, but they decided to make that the system they include.
@@moviebad109 I, on the other hand, love the resource system. Much more interesting than just gold, gold, gold everywhere. Plus we've been already getting that in WH3 already with races like Chaos Dwarfs.
This sounds good, the best possible outcome after the missteps CA made. Really hope they focus more on balancing issues like faction income and tech trees
If u to young, and dont know game like CENTURION: Defender of Rome (1990) AMIGA. U should play and say what was change in Total War series about 30 years. 🤣Centurion have all what Total War have + gladiator fight's, chariots races, and fleet battles. And it was on 2 FDD - 1,5 Megabyte of data. 😆Well maybe there was no champions. All the rest is the same for 30 years. 😂
As for a wishlist: I'd like them to include a generic lord choice for Kislev, ideally a hagmother with a unique lore of magic(maybe they'll make the system similar to dwarven rune magic), another 1-2 units for each faction that fill in gaps in the roster and most importantly any FLC lord
The Changeling campaign also needs to have a lose condition
@@viclange3826 yeah. or just make it so that he loses the cults when the city gets torn down to ruins.
@@Garret007 honestly that would be very annoying. not being able to defend your cults and being able to loose them quickly dosent sound fun
@@Garret007 Just no. That'd make that campaign unplayable.
Changeling should lose when they've lost their last army OR their last cult. Right now, they have to lose everything at the same time and that's nigh impossible.
They could tone down (slightly) the blue buildings' detection buff but I'd be concerned they'd overdo it like they usually do when tweaking mechanics.
@@urdaanglospey6666 Fair, but I wouldnt set it to "lose their last army or their last cult". That would feel awful as well as a horde faction. Would make one of them feel really meaningless.
But yeah, I agree on turning down the counter-detection values of the blue buildings. If the cults don't even care when cities burn down, then they need to be easier to discover for sure. It's so easy to spread cults as well...
“I see something long-absent in the sunken faces of passersby-a glimmer of hope.”
Sounds kinda like they was about to release Thrones of Decay in the same shape so it’s good they moved it back.
This. This is amazing to hear from them. Thank you CA for being honest and earnest with us. These days you NEVER see this kind of talk from a company. I have loved playing your games for nearly 20 years and this just makes me SO happy to see and hear. I've fallen in love with Warhammer because of your games and it's so exciting to hear you are listening and making meaningful changes. Thank you CA. And Happy Holidays to you all. Can't wait to see what the new year brings.
It's easy to express on the current drugs of emotions but before going all "I LOVE YOU!", wait for the damn result. 2 months until then.
Keep in mind they either do that or cease to exist. It has nothing to do with good will, their money bags got hit hard these last months, that's the only reason.That message poping now is because of potential Christmas sales, nothing changes until February like they said so why this message now ? Ask yourself the question.
Damn, this was pretty good. I know they could have stretched further, but these are not only words, but very clear actions, something we have seen way too little off lately, and fills me with some hope for the first time since SoC
This gives me hope. I don't mind paying a lot of money, as long as I get a lot of content. Hoping they will make sure each faction gets a generic lord, generic hero and enough filler units to just widen the faction rosters. I'm really hoping for a positive future here because TWW is the one game I love being excited about.
While I do agree adding more content to SoC is a better route, in regards to the possibility of reducing the price I will point out in the Pharaoh section this is literally what they did, and even refunded the price for those that bought it already, so it is definitely something they can do. Overall though I am very happy with this statement, it covered every grievance I had, I just hope they follow through
Definitely with you on this issue, I am not so concerned about the price, so long as I feel I got my money's worth in content! Whether it be in pure volume or quality or even a good mix, so long as the right content is there, I'm buying! I do think a cheaper option could do well too, like have faction packs or something similar, basically the Thorne package just split up, so you can just get what you really want! Really glad they have decided to listen to us for once, which I think will pay off with the hardcore RTS players, I've been playing RTS games my whole life and it feels good when they say, we heard you and we are doing something!!!
The price drip in Pharoah was something I did not see coming, but I'm glad they did it. Now I may actually try it out.
To be honest, Feb and April dates show how much of a shitshow CA is going through, those dates are wild. It is 7 months to fix a DLC ... insane.
I do think it's important to note that the nightmare scenario of HYENA's implosion and the redundancy system they went through likely caused an absolutely massive amount of delays, though how much is direct on that versus actual schenanigans revolving around the DLC itself is hard to say
Honestly a 100 million dollar game crashing and burning like that would normally cause a studio to pump out whatever they could to make the quarter look better, it's a very good thing that they are going to hold there hand and do it properly
@@loremasterofsotek certainly, I mean morale must be shot and the reorganizing must have left a lot of stuff in limbo for a while. That being said, it also shows what a mess things were before…I mean DLC came out in August…so how band in shape was TOD that they need 8 months to release it?
A lore of hags would go a long way. They really dropped the ball with that one
@loremasterofsotek They dropped the price on Pharaoh. And refunded people. That more than anything shocked me. It's great to see them own their mistakes and looks like they'll be doing better going forward.
Just read everything on the blog. Very good and mature post, great first step in restablishing good terms between CA and players.
Whoa. Was not expecting this.
Certainly a NOTABLE improvement in blog post writing compared to the last few
@@loremasterofsotek I’ll be screaming for Hag Mothers from the mountain tops again.
Well summed as per usual Sotek, I am always grateful to have your optimistic appraisal to help balance out my natural skepticism when it comes to GW IP and quality product coming together :).
I think this is the best communication CA has put out since the SoC circus began, and this is the message that should have come out back in June.
Seeing the message now... I am cautious and skeptical. Much as I see the reasoning for not lowering the dlc price, I am doubtful CA will put in the quantity AND quality effort to bring SoC or any $25 dlc up to the example of an expansion like ages past (Frozen Throne is a great example of a quality product I think beyond CA's willpower).
Far as content - I think 2-3 more units (at least one can't be a variant - though I don't mind if animations are reused) and a hero/lord for each faction is needed. There were $12 lord packs with 9+ units before so I see SoC as twice the price for the same amount of content (now we pay for the FLC lord instead of it being included).
For Quality side - the patch schedule is good, however to be satisfied I would also need CA to continue working down that technical debt in meaningful ways. Longstanding issues need to continue to receive focus as well as squashing the dumb mistakes that come from not being able to check code properly. The toying with sieges and the QOL update of respeccing are great examples of this. If that level of work continues I think CA may well bring this series back to a place where I feel it's living up to it's potential.
Nothing would make me happier than to come back to this post some day see all these issues handled. Like a disappointed parent, I'm always rooting for you to succeed in the long run CA. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to keep learning without another painful lesson.
Release dates being later than I would have liked aside, this is way better than I'd expected. Partly because my expectations were pretty low, I wasn't even expecting too much improvement by the time ToD dropped. I mean, granted, those were my expectations back when ToD was still supposed to release this month; but it's good news that it being pushed back is explicitly for the purposes of not repeating their mistake with SoC. The SoC expansion itself sounds more substantial than anything I expected either, but, again, I had pretty low expectations. Anyway, I do hope they can put their money where their mouth is.
That said, Sotek, what you just said about negotiable prices is contradicted by the statement immediately afterwards in the Pharaoh section. In short, they're apparently dropping the price of the game, and refunding the difference to everyone who already bought it. That instills a bit more confidence in me that they're not just talking about fixing up SoC and ToD, and have some commitment to taking action. Because if they're willing to go that far for their least successful active title to win back community goodwill, it makes sense to think they'd be willing to go at least as far for their main cash cow. I mean, yeah, the partial refunds probably would have cost a lot more if Pharaoh was more successful, but I'm focusing more on the fact that they explicitly went back on their pricing. That's a pretty big deal when not accompanied with some sort of face-saving gesture going "Our prices were fair, but..."
A free LL like they used to do for old dlcs would go a long way for me. Most of my favorite campaigns were the FreeLC lords. A monkey king FreeLC would be the perfect way to expand the value to me
I genuinely feel really hopeful about this, maybe it’s just because I WANT this game to be good
Also guys I would recommend reading the Pharaoh portion of the statement, even if you aren’t interested in Pharaoh (tbh I’m not too interested in Pharaoh personally), the things they’ve mentioned with their plan really highlight a desire to fix things and muster up some good will with the community again if they follow through with it (supposedly there has already been some actions being taken to institute those changes however I can’t verify them)
I´ll believe their "big words" and promises once I see them, because I do want to believe they are sincere, however they might only be saying what we want to hear and leave it at that, I wouldnt put it past them atm.
And they still say that the community coming together and making noise leads to nothing. There's the proof.
I'm glad they recognized they made a mistake and are willing to try to fix the problems. Let's see if this "expansion" will be worth the amount they are asking for.
I am legitimately surprised they listened.
I also wonder if someone got fired over this. It's been months so I can't remember but someone from CA (not Richard Aldridge) came out with a statement that felt like they were pissing in our faces and we were all super unimpressed
I'm glad they're going to add new content and generally fix their behavior.
I'd like to see more serious attention paid to the Empire, the Dwarfs, and Vampire Counts, because they're a huge part of the lore, but it feels like they've been left behind with the development of the other factions (LLs/mechanics). It looks like updates for these factions are in the cards somewhere in the future, but I'd really like CA to lean into them.
Thrones of Decay will feature the Empire and Dwarfs as the mainline factions alongside Nurgle
With this recent change you can expect a good thing will come for Empire in april
I'm very encouraged. I also don't mind seeing ToD pushed back; truth be told, I am travelling home for the holidays this weekend anyway for a few weeks so I wouldn't get to play it anyway. Then, when I get back, I will be up to my eyebrows in Rogue Trader so February for a content SoC drop and April for ToD sounds just fine.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the last guy we had. We can accept a sincere apology and a nice explanation. If they have to delay the game, it is good news, if they want to redeem themself, it is great news. The price problem is the relation between product-price if shadows of change correcction is big enough and it is good, then the price is fair.
Yeah that guy was a jerk. I hope he lost his job lmao
I love this statement, because it sets up a standard for themselves that the community can hold them to. If they do not meet the expectations they get slapped, and if they do, they regain trust with me at least
The one major thing they mentioned for Pharoah is transparency of the DLC's and also they're refunding half the price of the edition you paid as well as lowering the cost of the game in general. Super good guy move as they realized they were a little scummy with the Dynasty edition with no hints to DLC.
Good. This is good. This is what a company should do when they fuck up.
A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad; this can also apply to their DLCs, and I'd rather have ToD delayed and SoC enhanced than have another massive fuckup.
Yep, I like the 'giant bat thing' as a must have for SoC 🤩
I might even buy pharoah now.
First of all thanks for talking about Pharaoh without reading the section of the statement that addressed it. Got a nice chuckle out of that. Regarding bug fixes/update cadence: Quality is much more important to me than quantity on this stuff. If they are fixing more than they are breaking and not leaving fixable stuff broken for months at a time it would be a marketable improvement in my book.
this mostly makes me look forward to the next time they communicate with us. the way they talk and the thing they announced seem great, so i mostly want to now hear from them again.so that is comfortable going into the holidays and looking forward to what they say in the new year
I'm glad they did this, but I always take corporate apologies with a healthy pinch of salt. It's not that I don't believe them per se, it's more of a 'I want to, but I'm waiting to see how far the goalposts have shifted'. I'm very pleased about the faster rate of patching, I think that was sorely needed because lots of little things were going unaddressed for embarrassingly long periods of time for far too long.
But yeah, don't be sorry, CA, just be better. These are hard times for everyone, but when every other aspect of life is doing its level best to bleed us dry more and more every year, nobody wants the things they turn to to escape from that drudgery doing the same bloody thing. All of this mess and the fallout from it was predictable, and therefore avoidable.
IMO a generic lord and hero for each faction and a rework of Kairos tech tree would be enough to improve Shadows of Change. An extra unit for each faction would be nice too though
people have very short memories...
price is still $25, are people getting half a game????
Thanks for the info, Sotek. Insightful and fair as always.
This is all because the community collectively pushed back against the price gouging. You sir have done nothing but shill for CA’s DLCs, SOC included. This victory has nothing to do with you.
totally agree. Loremaster of Sotek defended de DLC. He has no credibility.
The things i want from the update to SOC for Kislev would be hag mothers as a lord choice, stronger campaign effects for Boris cause it really doesn't feel like his stuff doesn't have enough kick, and more units such as the chicken hut. Ideally i would like the lore of hags cause that'd be awesome, but i don't know if that would happen.
I was looking for the announcement that they were updating SoC since I wanted to estimate how much they could do in the time they gave themselves, couldn't find it. Found this instead, thanks for linking it. lol
This statement is a ray of hope. The silence and harsh reactions to criticism these past few months really had me worried that CA did not understand the full breadth and severity of the issues Total War is facing, having a letter which addresses and actually takes responsibility for nearly all of the grievances felt by the community is genuinely very heartening.
This expansion of Shadows of Change is really important... if they don't balance the ledger it may kill TWWH3 completely
I mean. Twwh3 is the only profitable part of CA lol
Kislev really needs an Ungol Lord and and an Ungol melee hero option.
Mother Ostyanka's start should closer to the Ungol lands so she can protect Kislev.
Another Akshina unit with a Gospodar secret police theme would be nice.
Cathay also needs a melee hero option.
I am okay if those are becomes a reality for SoC.
Although it is good to hear they acknowledge their fault, we will see if the proper action comes after that.
As someone who's been on the fence with Shadows of Change, this is awesome.
Compared to the Chaos Dwarf DLC, Shadows of Change seems to cost twice as much as it should.
True, now with the fix price of 25$ we can expect the same ammount of content as Chaos Dwarf.
Sotek didn’t go over it but in the blog CA said that they were lowering Pharaohs price and issuing partial refunds to everyone who bought it, I’m pretty sure they mean it.
On SoC 2.0 i have the following notes:
Boris needs a better mechanic for the supporter race.
Cathey needs a legendary hero.
both need more units in general.
Tzeench and kislev could use a new general type
This does make me feel better.
I have been a die-hard fan who bought everything, but I haven’t played the game since the Shadows of Change release, because I felt like the criticisms were mostly fair and that the DLC content was not up to snuff for the price.
The game and community were in a bad place, a bad direction, and I didn’t feel like playing, and worried the game would die a premature death.
This statement gives me a little ray of hope, that things may still improve, and that this game I loved may still reach its potential. We shall see if it’s just words, but I am awake and listening again, interested to see what they create.
It's a good statement... probably the best it could have been worded. That said , "the proof is in the pudding." I've worked for many companies in which the upper management were fantastic at establishing a goal, dream, or promise to it's investors and customers, but middle management were completely unable to deliver due to a lack of skill, support, or burn-out. I will keep my expectations in a holding pattern, as they need to deliver on what they have now promised and MAINTAIN IT. I WANT them to succeed... but I shall keep my expectations tempered.
i hope they do a complete overhaul of the kislev side of the dlc. things in the woods feel like a beastmen/chaos/norsca unit, and mother ostankya is the only one who makes sense to be using them. also her animations are so cartoony it's wild
For me at least on the Kislev side giving us a generic Hag lord and a lore of hags would work and be reasonable to ask for. I’d have to think about things for the other two factions.
Complaining and voting with our wallets work guys, what a surprise.
A bit poetic that the Shadows of Change DLC is what is setting in motion the winds of Change in CA. Truly a DLC that is worthy to represent Tzeentch.
As for the expectation ; a generic lord and hero for all faction, a new units for each faction (so a total of 4), a new lore if it fits well for one of the faction (i.e. hag lore)
Good on CA for having what seems like an actual higher up deliver the letter, and a letter that seems well written and acknowledges CA's mistakes, the community's frustrations, and addresses the current DLCs. Just acknowledging that Thrones of Decay will be delayed is a good step. If nothing else, this letter makes me believe that they are actually listening. I am willing to give them the opportunity to prove to us that they are going to try to fix things. The fact that they acknowledge this and so much more feels genuine to me. Ball is in your court CA. Make it happen and prove us all wrong. Restore our faith and let WH 3 go out with a bang.
I think the general seniment I A) feel and B) genuinely see is we as a community are disappointed at CA/Sega. It seems apprent that this mistake isn't just from Creative assembly but Sega as well. The stregagy/RTS genre that total war brushes up against isn't a hugh exploisively increasing audience. I would sumise for the devs this is a sigh of relief that they can do what they're paid to do. In what I'd hope is a dream job.
As the third paragraph bluntly (And I think it should) actions speak louder than words, especially if pulling in a new player base is harder. Back in warhammer 1 this is a continution project seems mad to see it last this long. Not just for CA but any francise/project, from any company.
This news came right on time, I was dreading buying SoC just to get a complete Beastmen/Daniel roster for SFO.
One thing that I'm looking for is changes in their upper leadership team. There have been big decisions made for many years that they seem to have over-committed on even after initial feedback told them it was a bad decisions. Like the portal mechanic in the W3 campaign. Somebody on the team is in charge of deciding to either change it or stay the course, and they chose to stay the course. And that was neither the first nor the last time. Who ever it was, they either need to stop over-committing, or be replaced by someone who doesn't dig in as much. It's been a systemic problem for a long time.
They've said the right things but at this point I need more. I would've liked something about what kind of updates they are planning to make to SoC and similar dlc going forward. I hope this is going to be a great turn around for CA and the community. Just need to see the change before I believe it.
Hi all :) Lately I have found that i dont finish my Campaigns anymore , maybe there should be more factionbased quests or a Bazar to get access to items that allow complex army builds and there is an unbalance between cities that have ocean access and cities that dont in terms of those seebattles and things to collect . the next thing is that it feels like that im using the policy button only to get filling money for though economy rounds or when im about to declare war to get like 3 k extra money i dont think thats the right use for it . the early victory rewards could be made to have more impact for the game / world ?
Yes! Still hoping for Chaos Lord and exalted hero of Tzeentch!
Well i always held hope but woah, im new to Warhammer in general and only started really delving into it about a year or two ago and TWWH 2 was my entryway and has since been my favorite fantasy setting ever. the single fact that this came from the VP is huge huge huge beyond what i was expecting and revitalizes all of my excitement that was never lost entirely but definitely shallowed. i couldn't be happier to hear this from CA especially the VP to boot!
Its good, i was hoping (and expecting) for something like this. It would have been a really bad idea for them to not do anything with Shadows of Change i think. Its also good that they delay Thrones of Decay, hopefully this means it will be a really good DLC, which i very hope it is since it might be the last DLC dwarfs and empire get.
For me shadows of change needs to be brought in line with the chaos dwarves race pack. Which means at least 2 more hero's and Lords and half a dozen more new units which are not just basic reskins. A proper unique mechanic for the Cathay legendary lord should also be there.
I’m glad to see they’re stepping up hopefully most of the community will get back on board. Hot fixes as long as they have a dedicated team for it. I don’t think two weeks should be ridiculous. As for what we should see every single faction should have one legendary lord generic general and hero for each faction a infantry, a Calvary, a archery, and a monsters and a medium size monstrous unit and a legendary hero for one or two of the factions
, all across-the-board for any DLC. Maybe even a new lore
of magic if the faction calls for it
This is a W for the player base. If we all didn’t get upset they would have fucked us over and over. Nowwwww they have to put in the work for the price they bringing out
IMO adding information about units they are adding would have overshadowed the apology. Focusing just on it and what their plans for the future are keeps the discussion on those topics instead of getting distracted.
Surprised to see that they reduced Pharaoh price!
Its a good start, atleast the tone is different and unlike other CA statements who just made it worse. But yeah, still only a statement for now: a good start, now they need to deliver. But gives hope for sure, could be the sign of change for next year.
In fairness, those statements were a panicked response to certain trolls and content creators drama-mongering to maximize viewer engagement for a quick buck at the expense of the long-term health of the community.
Content creators who were done with the game tried to torch the game's reputation and long-term sustainability before moving on to other projects, to the detriment of all of us, and the trolls who were just looking for something to burn for 5 minutes of entertainment ate it all raw and spammed every single comment section remotely related to the game with hate and destructive, useless criticism (i.e. "fuck CA", "this game sucks", "anyone who enjoys this is a fucking shill" etc.)
CA's response was ass, and I'm glad that they're being the bigger people and owning up to their mistakes. But nobody came out of this looking like saints, and I've unsubbed to a bunch of opportunistic content creators as a result of that whole incident. They might have claimed to be fighting for the consumer, but all they did was try to pour as much fire on the whole thing as possible for their own personal gain, rather than appealing to reason, pointing people to the best deals and slamming the trolls who derailed every single attempt at rational discourse with ceaseless verbal abuse. Content creators were at least as much, if not more responsible for that whole shitshow than CA.
@@SleepyFen CA never knew how to communicate with the community, and even less on things that mattered. Besides, there was nothing to say, as what they did was purely an attempt to squeeze as much money as possible with minimal effort. So while some parts of the community might have reacted more extremely and crossed a line (There's always going to be sh*theads going around insulting and threatening devs, nothing new), the endangering of the long therm sustainability and reputation of the game was solely on CA part. Content creators were just the echo of the community and reacted to what CA did, mostly did their job of presenting the content. Why would they point to the best deal when there was none? Why promote content that was clearly lacking? Why not call out CA when they try to do this kind of thing? They shouldn't stay silent and just tell people to preorder or refrain from criticizing to not hurt CAs precious corporate feelings. The direction/tone is left to each, but that's not really connected to how the message is justified, thats presentation of it.
So this is not being the bigger man or whatever, this is purely a business move: they need the core audience of their golden goose more than ever. So rebuilding the goodwill they single-handedly destroyed is what they need to do right now, it has nothing to do with morals. And they'll definitely try similar moves at some point, once they feel they can get away with it again.
We are mollified!
Seriously though sounds like they heard the criticism and took it to heart.
Nice to see.
This was rare from a corporate entity. Usually they side step and make excuse while avoiding actually saying WE ARE SORRY AND WILL FIX IT. They said they are sorry TWICE just to make sure we saw it and outlined how they want to fix.
“The door in the depths can no longer contain it.” I’d jokingly say it’s a reckoner come to hold you accountable for oaths sworn, but I think we know it’s a ratman come knocking lol. And I can’t wait.
As for CA, great statement, I hope they have a pleasant holiday season and come back swinging with some good content. Which, is exactly what I wish for you.
I wonder if they had some models "on the shelf" or are having to make new models whole cloth to fix SoC?
Both Warhammer and Total War were a part of my childhood. I didn't play or collect much but i loved reading the Warhammer rule books. One of my first games for PC were Medieval: Total War. I got into Total War Warhammer with Warhammer 2 in 2020. I enjoyed it until The Silence & The Fury dropped in July 2021 and CA broke the ambush AI. I waited patiently until the end of the year for it to be fixed, but after two patches, a DLC and the final patch in form of a beta build, the issue had not been addressed.
I aired my grievance on the subreddit but while people there agreed it was shitty they said WH3 was going to replace WH2 anyway so it didn't really matter. I think it matters that the game I paid for had a bug introduced near the end of its lifespan that hampered my enjoyment of it, and that now I couldn't play that while I waited for WH3 to go down in price, but maybe I'm making too big a deal of it. So I decided to wait for bug fixes, a discount or a Chaos Dwarfs DLC, whichever came first, before I considered buying WH3.
During the lead up to the launch of WH3, while I was happy with how faithful CA was to the tabletop with the daemon factions, I just couldn't get excited for them. I had never really been a daemon fan though so I didn't think anything of my lacking reaction. Then came the launch disaster, the much badgered RoC campaign, the long silence, the disappointing roadmap. CoC seemed like a good DLC but even with that and Immortal Empires the game continued to have many issues.
When Chaos Dwarfs dropped to near universal praise I wanted to get excited but couldn't. I decided to wait for bug fixes and a discount, but when the SoC controversy happened I... found that I didn't care anymore. While CA has been on roller-coaster of ups and downs I don't think that's why I've grown apathetic. I think that between cutting support for 3K (though I never played it) and introducing bugs to WH2 at the end of its lifecycle and not fixing them, I've simply lost faith and trust in CA.
Their actions have left a thorn in my heart and I'm not sure anything short of fixing WH2 is going to get it out.
It's just a statement, and that deserves skepticism, but this was basically a PERFECT statement. It acknowledged all that was wrong, took responsibility, and offered the new plan to make it right. I'm optimistic about the future of the game now. It's a breath of fresh air.
Good to hear. I live in the UK and I don't blame CA for the price increase as everything here has gone up so wouldn't be surprised if the lower price point is no longer feasible, more content always welcome. Hope the next historical title includes gunpowder, it's the closest the real world gets to magic and I would happily pay for an updated Napoleon.
I'm really happy with that statement, they basically said everything they needed to say. Personally, as long as the content match the price, I don't mind if it's a bit higher, I was fine with the Chaos Dwarf DLC for that reason.
Obviously we still need to see them act on what they said. But the fact that they are willing to immediately take action for Pharaoh and even take a loss, makes me confident that they will likely keep their words. We just have to wait to find out what significant changes mean for them.
Overall great news.
I hope that new content for Shadows of Change DLC will be worth it. Hag Mother, Gate Master, and Exalted Hero of Tzeentch are a must have content for me.
It would also be nice if CA addressed the poor replayability for Tzeentch. This race could get 1-4 new legendary lords(Aekold Helbrass, The Blue Scribes, Vilitch the Curseling and Sarthorael the Everwatcher) without much effort. The thought of waiting another 2-3 years for the 3rd Tzeentch legendary lord scares me.
It's sad that this race has only 2 legendary lords after two DLCs, one of which has the horde system. It's like if the Lizardmen only had Nakai and Lord Mazamundi.
Aekold Helbrass and/or The Blue Scribes could have the same system as Isabella (playable Tzeentch legendary lords, but when you play a different legendary lord, they are just legendary heroes on the map).
Vilitch the Curseling should be playable for Warriors of Chaos and also for Tzeentch in the campaign.
They could also finally make Sarthorael the Everwatcher a fully playable legendary lord in the campaign.
I would say at the very least I'd require for each faction, and this is considering all this kind of DLCs following: 1 LL, 1L, 1H, 5 Units, 5 RORs. On top of that a LH Hero for one or multiple factions alongside it. This would be roughly as much content as the Forge of the Chaos Dwarves with, imo, campaign mechanics balancing out between not having to make an entire faction from scratch, yet having to create three very distinct campaigns.
FLC that comes with it is fine to be a LH, but I would like LL FLCs to come back as well at times, as they are great to introduce strange factions such as Drycha. I feel like we got a very complex Drycha with Mother Ostankya, but on the other hand she suffered for it becasue it just doesn't feel like playing Kislev and therefore the addition doesn't feel very Kislevite, when we could've gotten so much more in terms of Ungol units instead of just 1 and a hero that works better with wild animals than Ungols (which is fine, just a weird choice when you imagine playing them as the rest of Kislevit factions).
I would say that that would satisfy me in spite of the higher price point.
I think as far as a statement goes, this was perfect. Now, it's just words so we'll see how they actually meet it but this is pretty much what i wanted from them
Thanks for the good news Sotek! And keep our hopes high comrades! Although be frank, the Legend's commentary has a LOT truth to it
I am cautiouslt optistic. I do want to see what is coming. I am very worried about future races now that this all happened.
Also, and this has nothing to do with talent, I would have expected better communication from a ground level analyst where I work than what we have been getring, leading up to this letter. It just makes me wonder about the general maturity of the management at CA. Maturity leads to attention span, and when attention spans are poor heart felt letters tend to get forgotten. Seriously hoping we don't get there any time soon, but we will have to see.
And I agree, this is a good start. Only time will truly tell. Fingers crossed!
Very glad to hear that. This statement, if meant sincerely, has a sound of common sense about it. I personally am hoping for the White wolves of Ulrik for Thrones of decay along with a MASSIVE empire-overhaul. Another way to add more value to dlcs would be to add new faction-specific mechanics and units to already existing factions. For example: Tyrion and Mazdamundi - these factions are in dire need of mechanic-based expansion imo.
i wish that they could atleast announce what they have planned, like how Pharoah players got the announcement of playable Sea Peoples. to get the hype train moving.
This may be a lengthy comment so bear with me @loremasterofsotek
First - I want to say I am grateful for any news from CA - I sit mostly in the middle myself as a frustrated customer, but a reasonable one. I believe that adding more content was really the only outcome any reasonable person could have expected. I am not concerned with the price point as long as it has as much content as a full faction release - since they are the same price USD.
For the SoC addition - I truly believe a worth while thing that could be added are generic lords to each faction: Hag Mothers, Melee lords for Cathay, and Melee lords for Tzeentch. I would LIKE to see, but do not expect at all - Legendary Heroes for both Cathay and Kislev that are part of the DLC (this is unlikely though). I believe a dedicated Lore of Hags magic would go a long way to adding more content to Kislev as well. Also - adding either a unique mechanic for Boris (see Kat and Kostaltan) or add him to the race as well. Playing as Boris feels like a lack luster campaign compared to the other Kislevites. More units would always be welcome - truly I just think they need to stop cherry picking RoRs and just release the rest of the RoR list for all new factions - but this is not a SoC discussion item just a random shower thought. I believe more can also be done to add ANOTHER LL to Tzeentch to match the other factions having at least 3 choices - no faction should be left with only 1 or 2 LL's.
For the ToD push back - as you stated this was expected and I much like yourself do not mind waiting for quality content. However I am a sucker-shill-fanboy-whatever you want to call it for Warhammer Fantasy so its hard for me to complain either way.
For the patch updates - I believe that small patches are fine - as long as they are at least once every 3 weeks that would be ok with me. If there are GAME defying problems they need to be addressed sooner than this (see Nakai). I can deal with issues that sometimes happen, or don't happen, like events not appearing on your side panel, but to leave a faction without a key feature unit - that is not acceptable.
For the letter itself - as someone who managers 50+ people it is great to see their leadership take responsibility for their shortcomings. It may only be words on a paper now, but someone did have to write it and it probably wasn't easy to admit - however flawed - they have been and I can appreciate that from a business perspective.
Thank you for all you do Loremasterofsotek - keep up the positive and influential sphere you have. Truly it might go without saying, but you very much are the most trusted spokesperson for TWWH for myself and many others.
I assume CA can’t lower SoC like they did Pharaoh because the percentage of that purchase goes right to Games Workshop, as part of a legal contract.
I think I'm in agreement with you it would have been nice if they told us a couple of things they are adding. Like gate guards
To me the thing that sold the deal to me as genuine was the refund they are giving to players and the removal of the special editions. I *never* saw any other company do this, and it brings back a lot of my faith in CA
I'd would love CA create a "Shuffle" Mode in the Immortal Empires game. When you pick a LL you know where he starts, where he is going to go and what enemies he is going to meet. Interesting yet predictable. But with "Shuffle" mode, every new campaign could prove to be a revelation for a player. Just imagine starting a campaign with Grimgor in Ulthuan or with Karl Franz in the Badlands. Could be interesting.
One more idea. I think the players need another level of campaign difficulty, higher than Legendary. Call it whatever you want, it could be more aggressive, more enemies, more challenging missions.
Easy fixes for Shadows of Change:
Add Generic Ungol Lord to Kislev, can be a reskinned Huntsmarshal BUT can also be mounted on a horse
Add Generic Tzaangor Lord for Tzeentch (and unlockable for Beastmen)
1 Generic Hero for Cathay (preferably a melee character)
A crow variant, maybe one that is ranged....
A Tzaangor Variant, maybe even a ranged one....
A Variant for the Kislevite ranged unit, a stalking melee unit
If they REALLY wanna go all the way: Lore of the Hags.
Thats it.
Most of these are just reskins... thats all we wanted: Enough shit to make new armies.
Things I hope they learned:
- Don't charge more for something, deliver less then call it "Premium" (Don't piss on me and tell me its raining)
- Don't release things in a broken state (If its not ready delay it)
- If something is broken, fix it as soon as possible not whenever you get around to it. We shouldn't have to wait months or years. (We paid money for it, we expect it to work)
- Don't do what you did to Three Kingdoms, it was wrong what you did to fans of that game by just cutting off support.
- Don't release what should have been an expansion for a game and call it a full title (Pharoah)
- We love you because of Total War, nobody wants another looter shooter, we know you want that sweet sweet microtransaction money but please don't divert funding that should be used for a new Total war engine into games none of your fans wants. (Sidenote this means mobile games too)
3 kingdoms is still my fav total war next to Warhammer and it sucks so much they just suddenly stopped doing that but still focus on pharaoh. If they want to be transparent I kinda want to hear from them why they stopped supporting it. It didn't even seem to be going bad
Well before you mentioned it I just wanted to see better communication from the devs to let us know what challenges they are facing and what progress is being made. Now I kinda want the giant ice bat monster, though...
If they add something new in February for the DLC, then let it be at least a House on Chicken Legs for Mother Remains, as it should be for her. The appearance of this can be like a necrofex ear in its properties. And the classic Agent Koshei Immortal!
We should obviously still hold our horses, but there is no denying that this statement is basically as good as it could have been.
I am willing to give them the time needed to follow up with actual actions.
And I might even be willing again to believe that maybe upcoming content might be worth waiting for in the first place.
Shadows of Change was the first DLC for a TW: Warhammer since the launch of the first title that I did not purchase. It was also the first time I do not have a version of TW:WH installed on my computer in case I felt like playing for a few hours. Honestly this doesn't make me feel like I want to install the game again and give it a whirl. Sadly this whole thing feels like when I stopped playing WoW and never touched it again. I got off the train and it turns out it's a lot harder to get me back on the train then it would have been to keep me from getting off in the first place.