Great video. Thanks for keeping me informed. I'm well aware of the difference in fin placement between a twin setup and everything else but I didn't know that these existed, and it makes so much sense.
Really nice review. I will probably consider these to complement with the Tri/Quad Endorfins set I got. Also, I would like to thank you for your videos because my surf improved dramatically since I started watching you in the water. The fact you keep most of the footage including take offs/repositioning is so helpful for someone in early stages, also the notes during the voice over are so good. On a side note, I ended up ordering the Sweet Potato 5’6 and even if I was really tempted by the Seaside/Mashup I think that the average conditions in Mediterranean Sea will favour the SP more. Anyway, it's a board that, even when (if) I will overgrow it, it will still have a purpose in my quiver. I will jump on a performance shortboard later on, I'm not in a rush. Cannot wait to test it out 😍 Best!
you are legend. thank you so much. I think the SP is a great choice and your comment of not being in a rush is key. The best surfers I know surfed bigger boards for longer and learned to control. They tend to have the best technique and style. People that downsize too fast, especially when they start at a later age, tend to surf erratic. the best word I can use is spazzy. Anyways, let me know how it goes on your sesh. And thanks for the kind words.
another great review , I totally agree with the keel on the hypto krypto , my glazzer Ive just put a pair of modern keels in it and its a different board , fast lively and still turns very tight when you want it too , I think I"m so used to twinnys now that I cant get on with thrusters anymore , they just feel slow , fins on modern day hybrid boards change the boards so much.
I concur on the breaks theory. Im 53 and have a lot of injuries and need breaks to recover, like a few weeks here n there. Im a mid-high intermediate surfer. I am a bit above average with occasional moments of brilliance. I also live in Indo so I get a high quality and need less quantity, but find unless I force myself to have breaks the surf is hard to resist ! Anyway, after most breaks I find my surfing is much “cleaner” or more precise is maybe the word. Possibly due to more mind surfing while on a break as well as general body recovery, which perhaps resets the mind and body 🤷🏻♂️ Anyway, love your vids, keep ripping bro. 🤙🏻
@@ThePokersurfer I heard the same about firewire. I think the base cost money for fcs2. Meaning FCS is charging shapers for them since there is a small mechanical cost. Futures likely give their base to the shapers. It will be interesting since I have so many fcs fins. LOL
I've experimented with most twin templates on the open market and found the True Ames asymmetric Geminis the best overall feel to be honest even on normal twin fin templates! You gotta try it. The front side fin is more uprighted for a vertical attack and the backside fin is more raked for the more rounded approach and is an amazing chemistry if you think about it ....... Front side vertical attack with a round house buttery cutbacks!
I just looked at them, they almost look like the knox without the blocky squared tip, rather a more streamline tip. I will take a look. Thanks bro, always appreciate your input.
Hey Thomye…did you get my reply about the comments in response to someone that said the no design is flawed? Curious to hear your thoughts and my comparison to the fin set up on the Chemistry 23 model….
Hi Thomye. Another aspect that I have been told is that in twin fin set ups the side fins are more straight forward, while in thrusters they point more towards the middle of the board. Have you appreciated any difference in that regard or done some research on it? Thank you.
I will look into that. I know that classic twins like fish point straight but I noticed that performance twins like my modern 2 are towed in towards center.
Okay. I haven't been doing them because when I rewatch my own videos I cringe. LOL. But I think enough people have asked and they're way cheaper to do than surfboard reviews so I'll put out a couple more if I can in the very near future.
Probably not as good as the ono convertibles which are more keel. I think the Kraken convetibles would be too small on its own. it is probably better to use the normal Kraken with some small rear fins. Hard to know till you try though.
This concept is fundamentally flawed because the location of the fin's attachment to the board (i.e the fin box placement) is the pivot point and it's this which exerts the fin's forces on the board and dictates whether it works better as a twin. Moving the fin area backward on it's own doesn't change that pivot point. It's basic mechanics. Moving the fin area back might make some small changes to how it feels but that's more to do with creating a longer lever arm between the fin and the attachment. I doubt it stiffens the board up or increases drive at all and your experience with the Hypto Krypto backs that up. It looks loose and slow, typical for a twin with fin box placement too far forward. Also it's impossible to tell whether these perform their intended function without comparing them to using a normal set of twins in the boards you tested, rather than comparing them to using those boards as a thruster. If they are no different then if people already have a normal twin set there is no point in buying these. Don't wish to be negative just pointing out a few things. I love the content, keep it up!
Excellent points. I did try both boards with regular Twins like the MR and the NVS Knox. In both cases, with the Knox, they is way more drive and projection down the line and off the bottom. The Convertible Krakens didn't work well in the Hypto as mentioned. They worked better in the Mashup. But because it had less drive and projection though, it needed push. Comparing the two fins, Knox vs Kraken, the Knox is better in the condition I surf but the Krakens worked really well in the pocket and places where the wave gave me speed. Like that 4 turn wave. There is a definite Twin feel though and in several places, I would loose traction and get too much release. Having said that, the only thing I would change is the size of the fins if I were to use it in the Mashup. The Convertible Ono's I think will work in the hypto much better.
@onshore1ft @Thomyesurfs Good points made above….but is the concept flawed? Isn’t the fin trying to achieve what the Chemistry 23 model achieves? I’ve ridden the thruster / twin set up in the 23 model and it works great as a thruster and a full twin using the set back twin boxes…..
@@mjstatic77 I like the concept of the Chemistry 23 actually. The shaper i'm working with might help me build a quad twin setup. The convertible fins address only one aspect in my opinion. Which is to move the fins further back more like a twin, but it does not address the other aspect which is to move the fin in towards the stringer. I think the Convertibles are a good way to get an inexpensive alternative. It' snot perfect but works. If you want true twin board likely best to buy a separate twin. The Chemistry 23 address the conversion better by not only moving the fins bac but in. I've never tried it myself but it makes sense to me.
@@ThomyeSurfsThanks for the input. Yea I’m wondering if it’s worth getting the convertibles if the twin fin effect is minimal? I’ve got dedicated twins and was thinking of using them in a hybrid performance board with a regular thruster set up. It works good with a 2+1 set up anyway so not sure I need the convertibles…..it’s a touch loose at times so thinking the convertibles will reduce that looseness and give it more control?
I have been 3D printing these fins for 3 years or more. I'd even claim they're a knockoff of my idea. I hope they don't want to copyright it because they are too late.
LOL. what templates have you messed around with? Also, what kind of strength does a 3d printed fin have. that is pretty cool. I need to consider buying a 3d printer. I have a few other non fin ideas I'm eager to try.
@@ThomyeSurfsSorry Thomye I missed your reply. Firstly, I use a cheap 3d printer , a CR10. CAD drawing fins is difficult but I'm glad to share what I have and know about creating your own shapes. I use open source software and cheap materials, ie pla filament. Reply if you would like more info. Great vlog show 👍
for me, always with stabilizer. NVS makes a Keel convertible called the Ono's. With those I would run as a pure twin but with most normal fin shapes, I need a stabilizer. I'm very heavy front footed and that pressure lifts the tail out of the water. So twins feel super loose and not enough control.
I use the Soloshot 3. not to be confused with the Soloshot 3+ which is their latest version. Overall, it is a great solution and I would say 4 out of 5 times, I get good results. 1 out of 5, usually the best most epic day, it fails to track properly. LOL Having said that, filming yourself is one of the best ways to get better at anything in my opinion.
Thanx for that. I think it would be cool to see my surfing in different conditions. Your vid made me think of getting some krakens to play with. I ride a sweet potato which I wouldn’t try it on that. But I also have a lost puddle jumper pro (my daily) that it may work with . No sure Though
I had the same problem when I tested the D2. Maybe the wide point back, just something made it squishy. Never could get good projection off the bottom. I did like the Machado 2+1's but they are a tad smaller. I would try the nvs knox twin with stabilizer. also, if that is how you feel about the D2, at some point, you have to get on the Sharpeye FT. I think you and I likely have the same weight distribution issue. Try and demo one if you can.
I've only used the H4's so far. I have a few quad sets ready to test but the surf has been rather bad. I'll report back. I don't really know the futures line up so hard for me to suggest other than match the H4s a bit. the front fins seems raked back while the back fins seem more pivot. I'm going to try and test the opposite next, pivot fronts with raked rear. I like the Aipa horseman which is made for this dark horse quad. I will likely try that next.
too loose. good enough for dropping in and going down the line but then too squirrelly when you put any weight on the tail. It gets a little better with a twin fin size fin but still need the stabilizer. These are a tad batter than regular twin fins cuz they are offset to the rear making it not entirely necessary for the stabilizer. One of my buddies that used to compete in some smaller surf contests would take out the center rear fin and just ride it as a twin with regular thruster fins. He couldn't do much on it but would do flat spinning 360s. We used to say "spin it to win it". haha
it depends, which mid length is it? many 2+1 boards, short or mid lengths, already have the finbox pushed set further back. Placing a convertible fin in a actual 2+1 mid designed board might not be a good idea. If the finbox are already set further back and you add these fins, the fins might then become too far back. Hope that makes sense. If you have a mid length that is designed to be a thruster but you happen to be surfing it as a 2+1, then yes, you can use these fins. Many boards that are stated as 2+1 are actually Twin with an "option" to house a stabilizer in the event you happen to use a non keel or are heavy front foot like me. Heavy back footed surfers tend to be ok without a stabilizer. There aren't too many boards that are designed specifically to be a 2+1. A good way to check your midlength would be to place the tail against a wall and a thruster next to it with its tail against the wall. If you notice your mid length's front fins set further back than the thruster, then you know that the finbox is already set back. In which case you would NOT want to use these fins. Hope this helps.
@@albertobaggio1 I see. I would measure it and set it up against a thruster to see where the front fins line up. if its up furhter like a Thruster than "maybe" yes. It's a big "maybe". The issue is, side bites are smaller fins so it is possible the finboxes are set too close to the rails. I'm not really familiar with mids with sidebites. My mid, the Sunday, is actually made to be a twin so the side boxes are full side fins. Oh, that brings up another possible issue. Are the side bites boxes full depth finboxes or are they shallow like rear quads. Having said that, you should write to NVS and ask them. They are really cool guys and they would know best. But definitely check the depth of the finbox. Are you running futures sides or FCS side boxes.
@@albertobaggio1 I have seen a video of CI riding a mid as a twin with the original side bite positions. But the general thought is that they are a little far forward. The fins they recommended to try were generally a bit keel-ish in order to get the fin area back as far as possible. I think these kraken fins would work well and maybe try a small trailer fin if needed
Great video. Thanks for keeping me informed. I'm well aware of the difference in fin placement between a twin setup and everything else but I didn't know that these existed, and it makes so much sense.
Really nice review. I will probably consider these to complement with the Tri/Quad Endorfins set I got.
Also, I would like to thank you for your videos because my surf improved dramatically since I started watching you in the water. The fact you keep most of the footage
including take offs/repositioning is so helpful for someone in early stages, also the notes during the voice over are so good.
On a side note, I ended up ordering the Sweet Potato 5’6 and even if I was really tempted by the Seaside/Mashup I think that the average conditions in Mediterranean Sea
will favour the SP more. Anyway, it's a board that, even when (if) I will overgrow it, it will still have a purpose in my quiver. I will jump on a performance shortboard later on, I'm not in a rush. Cannot wait to test it out 😍
Best!
you are legend. thank you so much. I think the SP is a great choice and your comment of not being in a rush is key. The best surfers I know surfed bigger boards for longer and learned to control. They tend to have the best technique and style. People that downsize too fast, especially when they start at a later age, tend to surf erratic. the best word I can use is spazzy.
Anyways, let me know how it goes on your sesh. And thanks for the kind words.
Ur channel is growing. Happy for u. Your brother is great too.
Loving your channel and your approach to these products. Also those waves look super fun.
another great review , I totally agree with the keel on the hypto krypto , my glazzer Ive just put a pair of modern keels in it and its a different board , fast lively and still turns very tight when you want it too , I think I"m so used to twinnys now that I cant get on with thrusters anymore , they just feel slow , fins on modern day hybrid boards change the boards so much.
I concur on the breaks theory. Im 53 and have a lot of injuries and need breaks to recover, like a few weeks here n there. Im a mid-high intermediate surfer. I am a bit above average with occasional moments of brilliance. I also live in Indo so I get a high quality and need less quantity, but find unless I force myself to have breaks the surf is hard to resist ! Anyway, after most breaks I find my surfing is much “cleaner” or more precise is maybe the word. Possibly due to more mind surfing while on a break as well as general body recovery, which perhaps resets the mind and body 🤷🏻♂️ Anyway, love your vids, keep ripping bro. 🤙🏻
Thanks for the comment. Super jealous of you getting to be in indo. I would love a year of that quality of wave.
This is a great idea. Going to get some. Super curious to try the Krakens in my inferno 72 for small wave liveliness
Ingenious!
I thought that too.
@@ThomyeSurfs surprisingly not in Futures! Heard though the grapevine HaydenShapes are depleting the FCS line and going 100% Futures in time!
@@ThePokersurfer I heard the same about firewire. I think the base cost money for fcs2. Meaning FCS is charging shapers for them since there is a small mechanical cost. Futures likely give their base to the shapers. It will be interesting since I have so many fcs fins. LOL
@@ThomyeSurfsI use to favor FCS but since converted love the vast selection and more stable base of Futures.
I've experimented with most twin templates on the open market and found the True Ames asymmetric Geminis the best overall feel to be honest even on normal twin fin templates! You gotta try it. The front side fin is more uprighted for a vertical attack and the backside fin is more raked for the more rounded approach and is an amazing chemistry if you think about it ....... Front side vertical attack with a round house buttery cutbacks!
I just looked at them, they almost look like the knox without the blocky squared tip, rather a more streamline tip. I will take a look. Thanks bro, always appreciate your input.
BTW, got a hold of an EVO so will be doing that soon.
@@ThomyeSurfs yay!
@@ThomyeSurfs thank you for the content and the stoke!
@@ThePokersurfer still looking for a cymatic in my size though. Hopefully soon.
Hey Thomye…did you get my reply about the comments in response to someone that said the no design is flawed? Curious to hear your thoughts and my comparison to the fin set up on the Chemistry 23 model….
Yes, I went back and answered it.
Thanks!
Hi Thomye. Another aspect that I have been told is that in twin fin set ups the side fins are more straight forward, while in thrusters they point more towards the middle of the board. Have you appreciated any difference in that regard or done some research on it? Thank you.
I will look into that. I know that classic twins like fish point straight but I noticed that performance twins like my modern 2 are towed in towards center.
hey thomye I really like your content! can you do more how-to videos on surfing technique? cheers
Okay. I haven't been doing them because when I rewatch my own videos I cringe. LOL. But I think enough people have asked and they're way cheaper to do than surfboard reviews so I'll put out a couple more if I can in the very near future.
Wonder how the Kraken fins would go in the Seaside? Also....stoked to hear about the frk+ !
Probably not as good as the ono convertibles which are more keel. I think the Kraken convetibles would be too small on its own. it is probably better to use the normal Kraken with some small rear fins. Hard to know till you try though.
day 3 was going off
This concept is fundamentally flawed because the location of the fin's attachment to the board (i.e the fin box placement) is the pivot point and it's this which exerts the fin's forces on the board and dictates whether it works better as a twin. Moving the fin area backward on it's own doesn't change that pivot point. It's basic mechanics. Moving the fin area back might make some small changes to how it feels but that's more to do with creating a longer lever arm between the fin and the attachment. I doubt it stiffens the board up or increases drive at all and your experience with the Hypto Krypto backs that up. It looks loose and slow, typical for a twin with fin box placement too far forward.
Also it's impossible to tell whether these perform their intended function without comparing them to using a normal set of twins in the boards you tested, rather than comparing them to using those boards as a thruster. If they are no different then if people already have a normal twin set there is no point in buying these.
Don't wish to be negative just pointing out a few things. I love the content, keep it up!
Excellent points. I did try both boards with regular Twins like the MR and the NVS Knox. In both cases, with the Knox, they is way more drive and projection down the line and off the bottom. The Convertible Krakens didn't work well in the Hypto as mentioned. They worked better in the Mashup. But because it had less drive and projection though, it needed push. Comparing the two fins, Knox vs Kraken, the Knox is better in the condition I surf but the Krakens worked really well in the pocket and places where the wave gave me speed. Like that 4 turn wave. There is a definite Twin feel though and in several places, I would loose traction and get too much release. Having said that, the only thing I would change is the size of the fins if I were to use it in the Mashup. The Convertible Ono's I think will work in the hypto much better.
@onshore1ft @Thomyesurfs Good points made above….but is the concept flawed? Isn’t the fin trying to achieve what the Chemistry 23 model achieves? I’ve ridden the thruster / twin set up in the 23 model and it works great as a thruster and a full twin using the set back twin boxes…..
@@mjstatic77 I like the concept of the Chemistry 23 actually. The shaper i'm working with might help me build a quad twin setup. The convertible fins address only one aspect in my opinion. Which is to move the fins further back more like a twin, but it does not address the other aspect which is to move the fin in towards the stringer. I think the Convertibles are a good way to get an inexpensive alternative. It' snot perfect but works. If you want true twin board likely best to buy a separate twin. The Chemistry 23 address the conversion better by not only moving the fins bac but in. I've never tried it myself but it makes sense to me.
@@ThomyeSurfsThanks for the input. Yea I’m wondering if it’s worth getting the convertibles if the twin fin effect is minimal? I’ve got dedicated twins and was thinking of using them in a hybrid performance board with a regular thruster set up. It works good with a 2+1 set up anyway so not sure I need the convertibles…..it’s a touch loose at times so thinking the convertibles will reduce that looseness and give it more control?
I have been 3D printing these fins for 3 years or more. I'd even claim they're a knockoff of my idea. I hope they don't want to copyright it because they are too late.
LOL. what templates have you messed around with? Also, what kind of strength does a 3d printed fin have. that is pretty cool. I need to consider buying a 3d printer. I have a few other non fin ideas I'm eager to try.
@@ThomyeSurfsSorry Thomye I missed your reply.
Firstly, I use a cheap 3d printer , a CR10.
CAD drawing fins is difficult but I'm glad to share what I have and know about creating your own shapes. I use open source software and cheap materials, ie pla filament.
Reply if you would like more info.
Great vlog show 👍
I like try. Can buy on Amazon?
you can probably find it there but best place would be their website: surfnvs.com
Mahalo!
On the mashup did you run this as a straight twin or were you running a stabilizer?
for me, always with stabilizer. NVS makes a Keel convertible called the Ono's. With those I would run as a pure twin but with most normal fin shapes, I need a stabilizer. I'm very heavy front footed and that pressure lifts the tail out of the water. So twins feel super loose and not enough control.
Come back to you tube!
try the Tylor Knox in your hypto kripto
Hello Thomye, what type of camera do you use to track your surfing
I use the Soloshot 3. not to be confused with the Soloshot 3+ which is their latest version. Overall, it is a great solution and I would say 4 out of 5 times, I get good results. 1 out of 5, usually the best most epic day, it fails to track properly. LOL
Having said that, filming yourself is one of the best ways to get better at anything in my opinion.
Thanx for that. I think it would be cool to see my surfing in different conditions. Your vid made me think of getting some krakens to play with. I ride a sweet potato which I wouldn’t try it on that. But I also have a lost puddle jumper pro (my daily) that it may work with . No sure
Though
@@zuma3334 I think it could work in the PJ Pro. relatively cheap way to find out. :) and you are right, definitely not in the SP LOL
Have you tried the convertible ONO yet?
Not yet. Trying to save money after getting those recent boards.
What 2+1 fins Fcs2 work best in the D2 ? Struggling to get speed with as an thruster unless it’s big and hate it as an quad .
I had the same problem when I tested the D2. Maybe the wide point back, just something made it squishy. Never could get good projection off the bottom. I did like the Machado 2+1's but they are a tad smaller. I would try the nvs knox twin with stabilizer. also, if that is how you feel about the D2, at some point, you have to get on the Sharpeye FT. I think you and I likely have the same weight distribution issue. Try and demo one if you can.
@@ThomyeSurfs yeah I’m 5’8” between 145 to 150 lbs D2 is the 5’4” we could have the same problem, I’ve been eyeing the shape eye FT and the mashup .
hey so i just got a inferno ft in pu construction! wondering what find to rock on it! futures fin boxes btw
I've only used the H4's so far. I have a few quad sets ready to test but the surf has been rather bad. I'll report back. I don't really know the futures line up so hard for me to suggest other than match the H4s a bit. the front fins seems raked back while the back fins seem more pivot. I'm going to try and test the opposite next, pivot fronts with raked rear.
I like the Aipa horseman which is made for this dark horse quad. I will likely try that next.
@@ThomyeSurfs dope thank you for the input!
How does a thruster ride if just take out the middle fin
too loose. good enough for dropping in and going down the line but then too squirrelly when you put any weight on the tail. It gets a little better with a twin fin size fin but still need the stabilizer. These are a tad batter than regular twin fins cuz they are offset to the rear making it not entirely necessary for the stabilizer.
One of my buddies that used to compete in some smaller surf contests would take out the center rear fin and just ride it as a twin with regular thruster fins. He couldn't do much on it but would do flat spinning 360s. We used to say "spin it to win it". haha
do u think i can use those fins to convert my 2+1 mid lenght to a twin as well?
it depends, which mid length is it? many 2+1 boards, short or mid lengths, already have the finbox pushed set further back. Placing a convertible fin in a actual 2+1 mid designed board might not be a good idea. If the finbox are already set further back and you add these fins, the fins might then become too far back. Hope that makes sense. If you have a mid length that is designed to be a thruster but you happen to be surfing it as a 2+1, then yes, you can use these fins.
Many boards that are stated as 2+1 are actually Twin with an "option" to house a stabilizer in the event you happen to use a non keel or are heavy front foot like me. Heavy back footed surfers tend to be ok without a stabilizer. There aren't too many boards that are designed specifically to be a 2+1. A good way to check your midlength would be to place the tail against a wall and a thruster next to it with its tail against the wall. If you notice your mid length's front fins set further back than the thruster, then you know that the finbox is already set back. In which case you would NOT want to use these fins. Hope this helps.
@@ThomyeSurfs the board is a ci mid 6'8 and the side bite plug are not far back at all..
@@albertobaggio1 I see. I would measure it and set it up against a thruster to see where the front fins line up. if its up furhter like a Thruster than "maybe" yes. It's a big "maybe". The issue is, side bites are smaller fins so it is possible the finboxes are set too close to the rails. I'm not really familiar with mids with sidebites. My mid, the Sunday, is actually made to be a twin so the side boxes are full side fins. Oh, that brings up another possible issue. Are the side bites boxes full depth finboxes or are they shallow like rear quads.
Having said that, you should write to NVS and ask them. They are really cool guys and they would know best. But definitely check the depth of the finbox. Are you running futures sides or FCS side boxes.
@@ThomyeSurfs futures of course ;) thanks for the advice! I will contact nvs also..
@@albertobaggio1 I have seen a video of CI riding a mid as a twin with the original side bite positions. But the general thought is that they are a little far forward. The fins they recommended to try were generally a bit keel-ish in order to get the fin area back as far as possible. I think these kraken fins would work well and maybe try a small trailer fin if needed