Well now it's literally $10 for 11, which feels almost too cheap to be true but such is steam summer sale. Picked it up without a thought and my only question now is should I pick up 12 too while it's 30% off for summer sale, but probably won't.
Yikes. The negativity against XP12 in these comments is surprising. I find the sim to be great. Performance is definitely poor for multi-screen setups but its fine for a single screen. Even on hardware a few years old.
@flightsimguides I am referring to some of the viewer comments. It isn't a perfect sim, but I haven't touched 11 since 12 came out. I run a multi-PC setup and 12 just works so much better for that.
@@flightsimdeskuk thoughts on the flight model and performance of xp12 over xp11? The squirreliness? Did you make adjustments to any plane models? Just curious, not sharpshooting. That’s my biggest setback was plane just felt better to fly in xp11. And in xp12 the 530 moving map doesn’t move after departure. So avionics of xp12 got a big red x in my book until I figure that out.
@flightsimguides I noticed the ground handling and flight model is different, but I am not a real pilot so cannot say which is more realistic. I just adapted to it. I mostly use the default Cessna 172 and the Zibo 737 (freeware addon aircraft).
@@flightsimguides The flight dynamics have been improved in XP12. I do fly in real and in my opinion XP12 has the best FM out there. The FM-improvements are one of many improvements made in XP12 vs. XP11. Perhaps you are flying some aircrafts that haven’t been updated for XP12?
Yeah, I think Laminar kinda messed up XP12, flightmodels worse, getting steady fps is like drawing the right lottery ticket from time to time..I see people with high end Pc:s getting told 25-35 FPS is "Ideal" ...but the worst part is the silence from Laminar & Austin ..their best bet saving their reputation would be to first implement multi-core performance usage asap.. Im back in XP11, getting good FPS and enjoying a ton of freeware stuff, Xp12 also is very prone to crashing/freezing,..let`s hope Laminar decides to adress these issues soon, because it is the very best flight sim after all.
I think it has a chance (if they can stop addressing and creating new problems)…. I actually get good fps with xp12, I think it’s mostly the flight models that bother me. Good fps is a crapshoot but most times it’s good. Just have to stay away from heavy 3rd party graphics packages. Multi core performance sounds like a smart implementation. Always has been for xp. Thanks for your insights!
@MGS1-ng4oj yeah, but performance is unstable from time to time ...one session abt 35 fps and the next around 60 fps with same plugins and everything so I think its really tricky to determine what settings to go for in the long run..well, I suppose I should give XP12 a new try this weekend with the new beta and see.
I seem to get around 30fps with 3 monitor setup. It fluctuates some. The studder/stops seem to be due to my weather add on or real world traffic add on. But usually its the weather add on, but it is better than most weather addons and better match to real world weather, so I keep it for time being.
@MGS1-ng4oj yeah with XP12 its a must basically, just reinstalled it ( 2 copies ) and in vanilla mode I got between 60-80 fps in clear weather and 55 down to the thirties and fourties occasionally if I put in some really interesting weather, but I got these results with every graphic slider maxed out ( except antialiasing ) and I have yet to try the new beta so this looks promising, although I'll probably will have to readjust the graphics back a bit after the plugins begin to add up. ..but the flight model seems very flimsy after 3 weeks of XP11 flying but that can be fixed via the response curves ,but I sure would like to know Laminar was going for here, the flight model is what got me hooked since XP9 and thinking back on it I think it would have been a wise choice to not fiddle about so much with the physics core in the sim as they did, I guess they wanted to implement something like xprealistic in the base package but I just feel the aircrafts are kinda flimsy and unsteady and I realize after having gone with XP11 for a while now I really must adapt a lot in terms of how to handle the flying 🫣 . What worries me the most is how they actually wrote that 25-35 fps was the ideal range for the sim and if you get around 60 or so you should increase the load...,was that a clumsy way to divert attention from the fact that a lot of users with high end machines have been struggling to keep even decent performance in the sim? 🤔 Anyway, Michael from Xforcepc has been mentioning from time to time that the implementation of multi-core cpu use should and probably will be a priority in their future releases and updates. .so Im definitely hopeful for that as X plane being the best platform out there...( I tried msfs2020 and P3dv6 but they both ended up as refund claims after a few hours). Right now Xp11 is my main sim which gives great immersion with orthos, simheaven and a a sweet bunch of plugins so as Im planning to start flying on vatsim soon I will probably set it up there first to begin with and be patient with XP12, it will probably get more stable over time so no point trying to get 100% set up there yet for me.
With XP12, I do enjoy the more immersive general atmospheric conditions that I fly in, especially when it comes to the sun's changing position to create the relevant shadowing. The sharpness is nice compared to 11, BUT it does come at a cost: slower FPS if you're using a bare-minimum graphics card. To me, the aircraft seem to be a bit more twitchy in all aspects, but as I've gotten used to it, I'm able to correct for the twitchiness by using lighter control touches opposite of where the plane is yawing/rolling to maintain stable flight. You are correct that the UI is exactly the same, and that's a great point to make in order to convince folks that 12 isn't all that much different than 11. What I do love most about Laminar is the fact that the team is constantly making tweaks to the sim to debug issues that people have over time, and that alone is why I stick with X-Plane compared to Microsoft having a rather standoffish interaction with consumers. I've used 11 on my MacBook 2015, and had loads of fun with it. Now, I use 12 on a Mac Mini M2, and I'm just blown away by the graphics and weather along with the fact that there is an Airbus A330 (one of my favorite long-haulers) to play around with. Flight simming is addictive, and I'm not ashamed to say so. :)
The graphics are pretty great in xp12 if you are in an area of updated graphics. Otherwise it’s just basic ground textures, still. There’s a lot of potential. I can’t wait to see how 12.1.0 turns out!
In today's software lifecycle, most software is essentially in traditional beta until it is code complete. In other words, x-plane 11 is code complete now for about a year to year and a half. This is true because code updates and bug fixes are traditionally done in the beta phase. Gold or code complete is normally where you land when there are no more updates and few if any bug fixes that are required. The software industry as a whole went to this bastardized lifecycle when broadband became a staple. The infrastructure makes software distribution fast and simple. People want "new" and ironically are willing to pay even if it makes them a beta tester. I have 11 and 12 but fly 11. I always tell people if you want the stable version of anything, including x-plane, go with the last released version, not the one currently being worked on.
I think they’re both great. The weather in xplane 12 is obviously a step up me personally I feel like xplane 11 graphically looks a little sharper, but maybe I’m doing something wrong.
12's graphics and weather are def a step up. I think they used the same base graphics as XP11, but built upon that, so if you are out in the middle of nowhere, you'll see a lot of basic texture models that are the same as xp11. I believe they put a lot of time into building custom scenery for more airports, so if you do see better graphics, it's because they put the time into designing better models for some of the bigger airports. Then updated the engine for shadows and water, reflections. Basic things that even the next gen consoles have already done for most of their games. I still think XP 11 has better flight characteristics, but XP12 is getting some needed updates to their avionics, which will eventually put XP11 way behind. For me, the flight characteristics absolutely kill me on XP12. 11 is just so much more stable and functional, I'd rather fire up XP11 if I'm going out on a serious flight (pilotedge, etc). But to each their own, just have to figure out whats best for you and just roll with it. good luck!
I want to use this to practice learning to fly small personal craft. Is there any reason why I should buy 12 as opposed to 11? What joystick is the most realistic for simulation? Ultimately I think (but not sure yet) I want to fly ultralights or soaring gliders, if that helps
I think the answer there is basically up to you and what you think works best for you. I like the flight characteristics of the controls on xp-11, myself, xp12 feels like flying a paper airplane for me. Even after adjusting the sensitivities. If you aren't sure what controls yet to buy, I'd start with lower cost ones (Saitek Yoke, LG push-pull TPM, etc), to see what you think. They work mostly the same as the more expensive counterparts, but you might want to upgrade in the future as budget prevails. I've done a lot of reviews on controls and software on my channel, I'd say to check through some of my older stuff, it's still mostly relevant.
There are still more models available for X-plane 11, which may affect your experience. Also it sounds like the dynamics of 12 are worse, so you would want to go wiht 11 for the best veracity (ie. most like a real plane, which is easier to fly). Also, adjust the curves and responsiveness of your controllers when you get them to be as realistic as possible (will minimize frustration).
79 bucks for xplane12 since when? It was $59 now 20 bucks more expensive? WTF? I may as well got to MSFS. Instead of forcing all loyal customers to buy it again they should have offered some kind of discount to upgrade instead of being Greedy Xplane 12 people. Who does that?
I mean in their defense they mentioned they were increasing the price numerous times leading up to the new year. Then they still left it at the old price and finally increased it. I agree though, I think it should still be $59.
Makes sense but depends on what’s being flown. I’m probably between 4-6k most often in ga aircraft. Graphics are still muted that high but I’m sure not as much as at 10k+. What do you think is most common in flight sim? General Aviation aircraft or heavy metal?
I’ve stayed with xp11 pretty much since I’ve built my sim. It performs best imo. Not sure of eol, but I doubt it’s getting many more updates. Even xp10 is still available for purchase so xp11 will prob be around for awhile and supported at least.
I used MSFS during 6 months and deleted it. Apart from the nice visuals I have found it way behind XP12 in almost everything else. I am happy with XP12 and won‘t touch MSFS again.
@MGS1-ng4oj I have a much longer list of things I didn’t like in MSFS. The camera-steering, zoom-limitation and no tower-view, no fly-by, no good replay-function, weird distorted view, horrible installation writting stuff in the registry and needing an app called XBox with many issues, hidden folders, mandatory updates, long loading times, no possibility to simply change a livery without going back to the starting-screen. Then the overdone winds being always somehow gusty, bad simulation of inertia (no feeling of weight), stormy-clouds with zero impact on aircrafts, no density-true altitude simulated (basics for a PPL), no intuitive popouts that can be saved, no seasons, no ground weather-effects with brakes-coefficients taken into account, default airports quite bad. And no true 3D weather-radar announced (XP is working on it) etc,
Well now it's literally $10 for 11, which feels almost too cheap to be true but such is steam summer sale. Picked it up without a thought and my only question now is should I pick up 12 too while it's 30% off for summer sale, but probably won't.
Yikes. The negativity against XP12 in these comments is surprising. I find the sim to be great. Performance is definitely poor for multi-screen setups but its fine for a single screen. Even on hardware a few years old.
Overall I thought we were keeping it pretty clean!
@flightsimguides I am referring to some of the viewer comments. It isn't a perfect sim, but I haven't touched 11 since 12 came out. I run a multi-PC setup and 12 just works so much better for that.
@@flightsimdeskuk thoughts on the flight model and performance of xp12 over xp11? The squirreliness? Did you make adjustments to any plane models? Just curious, not sharpshooting. That’s my biggest setback was plane just felt better to fly in xp11. And in xp12 the 530 moving map doesn’t move after departure. So avionics of xp12 got a big red x in my book until I figure that out.
@flightsimguides I noticed the ground handling and flight model is different, but I am not a real pilot so cannot say which is more realistic. I just adapted to it. I mostly use the default Cessna 172 and the Zibo 737 (freeware addon aircraft).
@@flightsimguides The flight dynamics have been improved in XP12. I do fly in real and in my opinion XP12 has the best FM out there. The FM-improvements are one of many improvements made in XP12 vs. XP11. Perhaps you are flying some aircrafts that haven’t been updated for XP12?
Yeah, I think Laminar kinda messed up XP12, flightmodels worse, getting steady fps is like drawing the right lottery ticket from time to time..I see people with high end Pc:s getting told 25-35 FPS is "Ideal" ...but the worst part is the silence from Laminar & Austin ..their best bet saving their reputation would be to first implement multi-core performance usage asap.. Im back in XP11, getting good FPS and enjoying a ton of freeware stuff, Xp12 also is very prone to crashing/freezing,..let`s hope Laminar decides to adress these issues soon, because it is the very best flight sim after all.
I think it has a chance (if they can stop addressing and creating new problems)…. I actually get good fps with xp12, I think it’s mostly the flight models that bother me. Good fps is a crapshoot but most times it’s good. Just have to stay away from heavy 3rd party graphics packages. Multi core performance sounds like a smart implementation. Always has been for xp. Thanks for your insights!
@MGS1-ng4oj CPU
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11700KF @ 3.60GHz
@MGS1-ng4oj yeah, but performance is unstable from time to time ...one session abt 35 fps and the next around 60 fps with same plugins and everything so I think its really tricky to determine what settings to go for in the long run..well, I suppose I should give XP12 a new try this weekend with the new beta and see.
I seem to get around 30fps with 3 monitor setup. It fluctuates some. The studder/stops seem to be due to my weather add on or real world traffic add on. But usually its the weather add on, but it is better than most weather addons and better match to real world weather, so I keep it for time being.
@MGS1-ng4oj yeah with XP12 its a must basically, just reinstalled it ( 2 copies ) and in vanilla mode I got between 60-80 fps in clear weather and 55 down to the thirties and fourties occasionally if I put in some really interesting weather, but I got these results with every graphic slider maxed out ( except antialiasing ) and I have yet to try the new beta so this looks promising, although I'll probably will have to readjust the graphics back a bit after the plugins begin to add up. ..but the flight model seems very flimsy after 3 weeks of XP11 flying but that can be fixed via the response curves ,but I sure would like to know Laminar was going for here, the flight model is what got me hooked since XP9 and thinking back on it I think it would have been a wise choice to not fiddle about so much with the physics core in the sim as they did, I guess they wanted to implement something like xprealistic in the base package but I just feel the aircrafts are kinda flimsy and unsteady and I realize after having gone with XP11 for a while now I really must adapt a lot in terms of how to handle the flying 🫣 . What worries me the most is how they actually wrote that 25-35 fps was the ideal range for the sim and if you get around 60 or so you should increase the load...,was that a clumsy way to divert attention from the fact that a lot of users with high end machines have been struggling to keep even decent performance in the sim? 🤔 Anyway, Michael from Xforcepc has been mentioning from time to time that the implementation of multi-core cpu use should and probably will be a priority in their future releases and updates. .so Im definitely hopeful for that as X plane being the best platform out there...( I tried msfs2020 and P3dv6 but they both ended up as refund claims after a few hours). Right now Xp11 is my main sim which gives great immersion with orthos, simheaven and a a sweet bunch of plugins so as Im planning to start flying on vatsim soon I will probably set it up there first to begin with and be patient with XP12, it will probably get more stable over time so no point trying to get 100% set up there yet for me.
With XP12, I do enjoy the more immersive general atmospheric conditions that I fly in, especially when it comes to the sun's changing position to create the relevant shadowing. The sharpness is nice compared to 11, BUT it does come at a cost: slower FPS if you're using a bare-minimum graphics card. To me, the aircraft seem to be a bit more twitchy in all aspects, but as I've gotten used to it, I'm able to correct for the twitchiness by using lighter control touches opposite of where the plane is yawing/rolling to maintain stable flight. You are correct that the UI is exactly the same, and that's a great point to make in order to convince folks that 12 isn't all that much different than 11. What I do love most about Laminar is the fact that the team is constantly making tweaks to the sim to debug issues that people have over time, and that alone is why I stick with X-Plane compared to Microsoft having a rather standoffish interaction with consumers. I've used 11 on my MacBook 2015, and had loads of fun with it. Now, I use 12 on a Mac Mini M2, and I'm just blown away by the graphics and weather along with the fact that there is an Airbus A330 (one of my favorite long-haulers) to play around with. Flight simming is addictive, and I'm not ashamed to say so. :)
The graphics are pretty great in xp12 if you are in an area of updated graphics. Otherwise it’s just basic ground textures, still. There’s a lot of potential. I can’t wait to see how 12.1.0 turns out!
It's more than 2 lines, I don't even read it
XP 11 works xp 12 is worthless
Good summary….
In today's software lifecycle, most software is essentially in traditional beta until it is code complete. In other words, x-plane 11 is code complete now for about a year to year and a half. This is true because code updates and bug fixes are traditionally done in the beta phase. Gold or code complete is normally where you land when there are no more updates and few if any bug fixes that are required.
The software industry as a whole went to this bastardized lifecycle when broadband became a staple. The infrastructure makes software distribution fast and simple. People want "new" and ironically are willing to pay even if it makes them a beta tester. I have 11 and 12 but fly 11. I always tell people if you want the stable version of anything, including x-plane, go with the last released version, not the one currently being worked on.
Been around software development for the last 15 yrs. This is accurate af. Not a developer but work with software online.
I think they’re both great. The weather in xplane 12 is obviously a step up me personally I feel like xplane 11 graphically looks a little sharper, but maybe I’m doing something wrong.
12's graphics and weather are def a step up. I think they used the same base graphics as XP11, but built upon that, so if you are out in the middle of nowhere, you'll see a lot of basic texture models that are the same as xp11. I believe they put a lot of time into building custom scenery for more airports, so if you do see better graphics, it's because they put the time into designing better models for some of the bigger airports. Then updated the engine for shadows and water, reflections. Basic things that even the next gen consoles have already done for most of their games. I still think XP 11 has better flight characteristics, but XP12 is getting some needed updates to their avionics, which will eventually put XP11 way behind. For me, the flight characteristics absolutely kill me on XP12. 11 is just so much more stable and functional, I'd rather fire up XP11 if I'm going out on a serious flight (pilotedge, etc). But to each their own, just have to figure out whats best for you and just roll with it. good luck!
What Mac would you suggest for gaming?
If anything maybe a Mac Studio. But PC’s r better for gaming.
windows
@@dantae666 I use Linux and this game works fine natively on Linux.
I want to use this to practice learning to fly small personal craft. Is there any reason why I should buy 12 as opposed to 11? What joystick is the most realistic for simulation? Ultimately I think (but not sure yet) I want to fly ultralights or soaring gliders, if that helps
I think the answer there is basically up to you and what you think works best for you. I like the flight characteristics of the controls on xp-11, myself, xp12 feels like flying a paper airplane for me. Even after adjusting the sensitivities. If you aren't sure what controls yet to buy, I'd start with lower cost ones (Saitek Yoke, LG push-pull TPM, etc), to see what you think. They work mostly the same as the more expensive counterparts, but you might want to upgrade in the future as budget prevails. I've done a lot of reviews on controls and software on my channel, I'd say to check through some of my older stuff, it's still mostly relevant.
There are still more models available for X-plane 11, which may affect your experience. Also it sounds like the dynamics of 12 are worse, so you would want to go wiht 11 for the best veracity (ie. most like a real plane, which is easier to fly). Also, adjust the curves and responsiveness of your controllers when you get them to be as realistic as possible (will minimize frustration).
It will take a couple of years for this to a viable purchase where an average pc can run it. Optimization is key.
I cant even upgrade to Xplane 12, because my pc lacks RAM or something. I can though get MSFS
X plane 12 is really badly optimized. It makes my 32 gb ram rtx 4060 go crazy on mid to high settings at 1080 it's insane
79 bucks for xplane12 since when? It was $59 now 20 bucks more expensive? WTF? I may as well got to MSFS. Instead of forcing all loyal customers to buy it again they should have offered some kind of discount to upgrade instead of being Greedy Xplane 12 people. Who does that?
I mean in their defense they mentioned they were increasing the price numerous times leading up to the new year. Then they still left it at the old price and finally increased it. I agree though, I think it should still be $59.
Flight simmers spend most time above 10,000 feet during flights hence the ground graphics difference is seen less between ortho and msfs
Makes sense but depends on what’s being flown. I’m probably between 4-6k most often in ga aircraft. Graphics are still muted that high but I’m sure not as much as at 10k+. What do you think is most common in flight sim? General Aviation aircraft or heavy metal?
So have you stayed with v11 all this time? Is it still getting updated and when is EOL?
I’ve stayed with xp11 pretty much since I’ve built my sim. It performs best imo. Not sure of eol, but I doubt it’s getting many more updates. Even xp10 is still available for purchase so xp11 will prob be around for awhile and supported at least.
Just get MSFS. It’s far better in just about every way. XP 10, 11, 12 are all about the same.
I used MSFS during 6 months and deleted it. Apart from the nice visuals I have found it way behind XP12 in almost everything else. I am happy with XP12 and won‘t touch MSFS again.
Outside of graphics being really nice, I think I felt msfs was too gimmicky.
@MGS1-ng4oj I have a much longer list of things I didn’t like in MSFS. The camera-steering, zoom-limitation and no tower-view, no fly-by, no good replay-function, weird distorted view, horrible installation writting stuff in the registry and needing an app called XBox with many issues, hidden folders, mandatory updates, long loading times, no possibility to simply change a livery without going back to the starting-screen.
Then the overdone winds being always somehow gusty, bad simulation of inertia (no feeling of weight), stormy-clouds with zero impact on aircrafts, no density-true altitude simulated (basics for a PPL), no intuitive popouts that can be saved, no seasons, no ground weather-effects with brakes-coefficients taken into account, default airports quite bad. And no true 3D weather-radar announced (XP is working on it) etc,
I agree with you 100 % I own both MSFS and xplane 12 and I use 12 all the time . The updates were the killer for me .. everyone to their own liking
@@ricardohotbrakes1458 just for clarity, which one was killed for you due to updates?