Going to see if I can mod this to use for fleet and squadron engagements for the Expanse TTRPG. The mechanic for space combat is great 1v1, but breaks down when you play Commodore. Can you give us an episode on DM tips for the Expanse? Things like links to official model 3D files, what scale to print on so the Tachi isn't the size of my thumbnail just so I can fit the Donnager in my travel bag? The whole point of this cool nerdy stuff it to play with it as rules for toys. The core book says nothing about how to use the great details about the mass-to-thrust issue with the Leonidas, or your content doesn't say anything at all about the EW/Cryptologic capacity apparently most ships have in the game (and the 'ol 7th Fleet spook in me is very curious what SSES does in the MCRN). I'll buy you the book if you wanna take a crack at it when content gets thin; use your DM mind and make it up if you want.
@@rule-of-three1483 : Never properly used it, but I have two copies of version 1, and I think the basic answer to playing Commodore is to pre-compute a set of "valid for all members" maneuvers for a formation/squadron, with varying amounts of thrust reserved for sub-formation maneuvering (so that e.g. you can sweep locations inside a single formation under the rug until you actually need to care about/update them), throw them onto a cheat sheet, and have an additional sheet to list which ships are currently moving with a specific "formation token".
they show the blast shield rise out from underneath the rocis hull to cover the airlock in season 1 episode 4 around the 40 mins mark -- its a blink and you'll miss it moment but I've seen it the first time so I kind of assumed that everyone also has lol. anyways hope you see this and can watch it -- its pretty cool. Thanks for the tonns and tonns of awesome vids; been subbed since 20k its been great to watch your channel grow! Thanks again, Balazs
Correction: Virgin has never tail landed a spacecraft. The first tail landing reusable rocket was the DC-X Delta Clipper in the '90s, followed by Blue Origin reflying a landed booster in 2015. SpaceX developed their landing prototype 2013 through 2016, and has been regularly landing since 2017. I'm not sure where "Virgin in 2018" came from.
Seconded this, how can they not have heard of Space-X's incredible recent achievements, at least? XD (Edit: He mentions Elon Musk just a minute later...)
Vertical landings have been theorised since the 40's in various forms. The statements in the video are so incorrect, lacking both scope and understanding of design principles and history.
Hey spacedock, I just want to let you know that I started watching the expanse because of your videos and I can't thank you enough it's one of the best series I've ever watched!!!!!
It's crazy looking at that early, anime style design. But definitely fun watching the evolution to the grounded, realistic design we see on the screen.
Maybe as humanity expands (excuse the pun) into our solar system and we’ll need larger, heavier vessels constructed in orbit, it’ll become way less of a niche and maybe more commonly discussed.
I'm fully cognizant of the reasoning behind the top-to-bottom layout of ships in the Expanse, and some part of me appreciates the way the show makes a real effort to fit the ships and their tech into the mold of real-world physics and logic.... But god, I love a traditional 'horizontal' ship layout, where the shipbuilders basically keep to a wet navy design, but incorporating the required engines, airlocks, bulkheads and ventral/dorsal weapons emplacements that a spacefaring vessel requires. The logical design appeals to my brain, the old-style design speaks to my soul.
@@kyle857 Weird. I assumed the phrase "I'm fully cognizant of the reasoning behind the top-to-bottom layout of ships in the Expanse, and some part of me appreciates the way the show makes a real effort to fit the ships and their tech into the mold of real-world physics and logic" would be understood by anyone with a basic understanding of English and a semi-functional brain, and yet, well, here you are, utterly failing to grasp it. Okay then.
this is a bit off topic of the expanse universe but reading your comment... well here goes...there are rumors of actual naval space craft in our universe being built in naval submarine factories. they launch as subs but their propulsion system is in secret very exotic technology. "electrogravitic" in nature. with "zero point energy reactors" for the power needed to create an bubble em field that can pretty much cancel earths field once its in resonance. to create linear movement they actually modulate the magnetic field sort of like a helicopter tilts rotors to move direction-ally the fields pulse and charge is changed. this seems pretty interesting if true to me because a sub has to deal with alot of the same forces a space craft would.
11:15 This does look like something out of Halo. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Anlace-class frigate, which is the one on the title screen of Halo 5. We barely know what that thing looks like, but the known concept art looks a hell of a lot like this.
First design reminds of the Zentradi ships from Macross. As to not fitting the setting if the 2350 start date for the Expanse is correct if you go back from today 329 years it's 1692 just after the invention of the Flintlock and the same for ships finally doing away with fore and aftercastles as guns replaced boarding as the main form of naval combat. My point being is that it's such a huge jump forward that a future spaceship could look like anything. Hell we could be having wars between Earth and Mars with ships looking like 40K for Earth and Gundam or hell Vorlon for Mars.
Between the video length, the soothing voicing, and the content, this is basically Drachnifel IN SPAAAACE. I could listen to an entire channel of just this.
That one at around 19:00 looks like it might have been recycled as an inspiration for the Morrigan-class. EDIT: The iterative sketches that follow are quite interesting too; I'm seeing some more of the Morrigan's angled bow, and a *lot* of the engine nacelles of the Donnager as well.
The final design is very practical with regards to PDC coverage. 4/6 PDC's can fire directly forward or behind and 5/6 PDC's can fire 'broadside'. If you look at a lot of the UNN designs their ships have absolutely horrendous PDC coverage. Some of their destroyer designs can only utilise a single hardpoint in some directions.
Looks like a Zentradi warship with some kind af heat shield attached to the bottom. The split bow even looks like it has a Main beam Cannon like Robotech ships
IIRC the blast shield door for the crew airlock is activated, in the second or third episode, when they are shooting their way out of the Donnager and you see it close.
Dang, I never realized that they've gone really clever with ship names. When I write, or draw, or, especially, when I play games and need to name a new vessel, I just choose it out of the blue. Not completely, not always, but generally don't give much thought to it
Thumbs up for Seizewell in the background. Crazy to see some of these concepts, especially in light of how faithful to the novel and the science it all ended up being. That first Roci concept looks like something Laconia might have come up with. Glad they moved away from the spaceplane-style concepts though.
It would be neat to see someone do "large spaceplane" stuff though, especially if they wanted to maximize the real-world sanity of a design. I'd like to see someone design a ship with a vacuum engine thrusting up from a ventral location (probably on a telescoping arm or something, to deploy it for vacuum and stow it before reentry), preferably with a matching dorsally-mounted facility to hang from some counterweight.
@@Ketraar Hey Ketraar. Maybe don't listen too closely to the outro; it sounds a lot like 00040 to me. These guys seem to be fans of the X series, though; if they were asked to provide a credit I reckon there's a good chance they'd do it.
While the Boron sector music from X3 is great, it could have done with being a bit quieter in my opinion, it was about as loud as the voices so was rather distracting.
I definitely want access to some higher res versions of these! Especially the set at 12:30! I love that style, and one of my hobbies is trying to design vehicles and ships, I love to collect references and those are super inspiring to me. I love a blend of sharp and smooth, nice curves with hard angles. Too blocky or bubbly and I don’t like it.. those ship designs are right up my alley and I like them a ton!
Superb video! Thank you and I hope Spacedock is gearing up for more Expanse content. I just caught up to S6xEp3 and that show just can’t help raising the bar!
I went and checked, and i'm 99% shure the horizontal landing vents have survived the several roci refits and are, atleast as detail, still on the independent roci model.
absolutely great work guys, as another die hard fan of the expanse, it's always fascianting to see how it came into shape, i will miss the show so very much when it finishes, and really hope that some other big media company cotton onto the fact that this is worth more time
If there were ever a miniature game for The Expanse, all those alternate color schemes would be great inspiration for color schemes for task forces/squadrons/etc
Vertically landing re-usable rockets are present in fiction as early as 1953, in Herge's Tintin comics. Destination Moon (1953) & Explorers on the Moon (1954). There may be even earlier examples, but this is the first piece of media I ever saw with space ships that were laid out like skyscrapers and which landed vertically.
You do actually see the blast door over the air lock close, its when the gantry retracts in the Donnager. Its even in your video about the Roci. 1:17 respectively
Over an hour of juicy Spacedock content?!? Christmas came early. EDIT: I really like the 4-wing, 2 PDC ship. It feels like it could work as an attack boat. The wing-tip guns mounting make me think they’re forwards facing, so maybe it’s like a fast attack ship.
Am I the only one here feeling like they went crazy in the beginning only to gradually get back to how the ship is described in books? What I imagined when reading the Leviathan is closer to what they finally came with that with any other fictional piece of machinery I've ever seen on screen on artwork. Discovery One, Dune Harverster, Martian Tripods, even the Razorback - I imagined them all differently. But the Roci is exactly what I imagined.
12:30 If (when) they do a Mass Effect sequel any one of these ships concepts would make a great successor to Normandy. Possibly the "Normandy SRX" or some other advanced prototype frigate like SR1 was.
I LOVE the way the final designs for the show came out, especially the 'vertical' aspect of it. It's pretty much forever altered my view on how space ships should be designed. Edit: at the 25 minute mark, the focus seems to be pulsing, is there a reason for that? Oh, and the comment on the VLS stuff you mentioned 30-40 min mark, technically they'd be horizontally launched while the canon version has VLS, as the advantage is if the missiles/torpedoes align with the direction of felt gravity. Not to mention having to run all of that torpedo through the hull.
My first thought when I saw the ship in the show is that it looks VERY similar to I think the flak frigate from Homeworld: Cataclysm. Looks the same in action too with all those guns...
Its so important that they travel and land vertically because they don't use artificial gravity which makes it more realistic. Gravity is a major factor in the show which makes the show a must see for us science nerds. I fell in love with the show specifically because they got so much right about the design of the ships.
Masten Space Systems were working on vertical take off/landing rockets in the early 2000's. Not many people seem to know about it though. Their Xombie rockets were doing mid-air restarts back in 2010.
I know I'm late to the party, but the blast shield for the doors is one of the first things we see in the show when the Tachi is introduced. When the bridge/crossway retracts on the Donnager, just before they take off, the blast shield closes to cover the airlock.
The initial Weta design heatshield also looks like it could alternately reposition as hull armor and blast shielding for the forward command deck and drive cones. The vertical landing had the authenticity of a conventional burst deceleration along the lines of Battle: Los Angeles
During the Thoth Station battle a railgun round punches through the blast shield over the airlock, but laterally, so it only goes through the shield left-to-right and doesn't damage the actual airlock door - it's really lucky, they almost literally dodged a bullet. In a later episode there's an establishing shot of the Roci being repaired at Tycho where you can see a new shield being fitted.
Tail-sitting Vertical landing ships are from the Golden Age of comics and serial movies. The US Navy sponsored Vought to build tail-sitter fighters to be used on smaller US Navy ships in the 50s-60s. The LEM could be considered a tail-sitter. The Gunstar from The Last Starfighter is most definitely a tail-sitter. It's from 1983-4. And as others have mentioned, McDonnell Douglas' DC-X Delta Clipper.
As an engineer, the artist was correct when he mentioned tail-sitting being the more reasonable structural option, as the ship would be designed to take the thrust of the engines in the axial direction, meaning you wouldn't have to add structural elements to take load in the transverse direction, which would be required if it were to land horizontally like an airplane.
Fitting you should describe that first concept as "anime-esque" because my immediate thought upon seeing it is that it looks like something the Zentraedi would use in Macross.
When the Knight crew takes command of the Tachi/Rocinante for the first time, the blast door does come down after it undocks from the stairway the ship was docked to.
This is an iterative artist approach where the artist submits a bunch of exploratory concepts so that the Production Designer can select one or a few for the artist to pursue in more depth.
i should have waited for the whole thing to end..... this is 23:54 is a Roci i could have lived on, its awesome and i think i like it more than the actual design , its more along the newer mcrn ships. love it
Just quickly commenting here to tell you that you can actually see the blast shield over the airlock in the show. Towards the end of S1 E4, when the Tachi undocks from the Donnager, you can see the catwalk retracting and the blastshield sliding over the airlock.
Drawing #81 gives me Space Battleship Yamato series vibes where the space ships are mostly look like conversions of existing sea going naval ships with a wing
There's another blink and you miss it MCRN Corvette. When the Arboghast is descending to the surface of Venus, the MCRN ship that rushes past looks to be the same class as the Roci.
Just to know. We actually see the blast door close in the series. In the 4th Episode of the First Season when the roci escapes from the Donnager it removes the bording bridge and simultaneously close the blast door.
The blast shield moving down and covering the airlock door IS shown when the team escapes from Donnager. I think its only shown once in the entire series.
Horizontally oriented ships don't make sense in the show where most of action happens in space. If you absolutely have to shoehorn the idea that spaceships are spaceplanes, a flying triangle would work. A ship like that could fly face first (top forward, not edge forward, kind of like Slave I) in space, and behave like a plane in atmosphere (like Valkyrie dropship from Avatar). In space under thrust up would be forward, so crew could walk around the same way the would in planetary gravity. It could also make sense for a space craft that pulls double duty, some sort of long range dropship repurposed for interplanetary or inter stellar travel. Also, it's Scipio Africanus, not Scorpio.
I appreciate the work that goes into doing these videos but they’d be even better if you’d included key design references on Roci versions like the one at 16:00 which is obviously based mostly on the B-1b bomber, especially the whole top half and “wings”. Take a look at video “True reason why America’s enemies still fear the B-1 bomber”. Basically they put a wedge on the front of a B-1b and added some landing thrusters. I did enjoy your video and saw a few new things. Final design of Roci also refers to stealth US Navy ships like Zumwalt which have also tested railguns. That effort seeems to have failed at this point. In Spring 2021 Adm. John Richardson said, “the engineering of building something like that that can handle that much electromagnetic energy and not just explode is challenging,” adding, “This is how innovation maybe shouldn’t happen.”
7:39 shows a surprising lack of research for an otherwise very well-conceived show. In 1996 the McDonnell Douglas DC-X successfully landed vertically. Not nearly as publicized as Virgin's 2018 efforts, but I'm surprised this apparently never came up during their research. Other vertical takeoff/vertical landing systems were theorized and researched going back to the 1960s, if not even earlier.
A bit late too the party, but those antennas had a really military function. At least in the books electronic warfare is really important and the roci has top notch sensors and sensor jamming epuipment. I always picture those antennas to be that
My only disappointment with the Rocinante onscreen was that she doesn't land on her keel like in the books. I realise they do address this with modification, but landing on her arse does limit her landing positions, especially on the frontier where they don't have the infrastructure to support it, and so far she has been lucky to find cliffs and elevations to extend the docking ring onto to allow egress.
Yep. Happens on takeoff in the books one time, they go full main right after flip slagging the pad and the next 5 stories below. Also no radioactive exhaust in atmo. And she wouldnt need landing thrusters, as i imagine the maneuvering thrusters on a warship should easily pull 5g. Jist uses a ton of water
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Going to see if I can mod this to use for fleet and squadron engagements for the Expanse TTRPG. The mechanic for space combat is great 1v1, but breaks down when you play Commodore.
Can you give us an episode on DM tips for the Expanse? Things like links to official model 3D files, what scale to print on so the Tachi isn't the size of my thumbnail just so I can fit the Donnager in my travel bag? The whole point of this cool nerdy stuff it to play with it as rules for toys.
The core book says nothing about how to use the great details about the mass-to-thrust issue with the Leonidas, or your content doesn't say anything at all about the EW/Cryptologic capacity apparently most ships have in the game (and the 'ol 7th Fleet spook in me is very curious what SSES does in the MCRN). I'll buy you the book if you wanna take a crack at it when content gets thin; use your DM mind and make it up if you want.
@@rule-of-three1483 : Never properly used it, but I have two copies of version 1, and I think the basic answer to playing Commodore is to pre-compute a set of "valid for all members" maneuvers for a formation/squadron, with varying amounts of thrust reserved for sub-formation maneuvering (so that e.g. you can sweep locations inside a single formation under the rug until you actually need to care about/update them), throw them onto a cheat sheet, and have an additional sheet to list which ships are currently moving with a specific "formation token".
they show the blast shield rise out from underneath the rocis hull to cover the airlock in season 1 episode 4 around the 40 mins mark -- its a blink and you'll miss it moment but I've seen it the first time so I kind of assumed that everyone also has lol. anyways hope you see this and can watch it -- its pretty cool.
Thanks for the tonns and tonns of awesome vids; been subbed since 20k its been great to watch your channel grow!
Thanks again,
Balazs
I had so much fun doing this video with you guys!! Cheers.
An hour of Spacedock content and it’s about the Expanse?! Today is a good day.
To die
Very good day indeed!
Today is very good day
Indeed
This is exactly the kind of content I love to see.
Correction: Virgin has never tail landed a spacecraft. The first tail landing reusable rocket was the DC-X Delta Clipper in the '90s, followed by Blue Origin reflying a landed booster in 2015. SpaceX developed their landing prototype 2013 through 2016, and has been regularly landing since 2017. I'm not sure where "Virgin in 2018" came from.
Also, it has always been theoretical like the US army wanted battle tech style dropships.... and Battletech dates to the 1980s.
Seconded this, how can they not have heard of Space-X's incredible recent achievements, at least? XD
(Edit: He mentions Elon Musk just a minute later...)
tecnicali the lunar module was first
Vertical landings have been theorised since the 40's in various forms. The statements in the video are so incorrect, lacking both scope and understanding of design principles and history.
@@Skully002 Can I see your video? Oh wait......
An hour of Spacedock Expanse coverage?! Couldnt have asked for a better birthday present. Thank you!
Happy Birthday
Hey spacedock, I just want to let you know that I started watching the expanse because of your videos and I can't thank you enough it's one of the best series I've ever watched!!!!!
Me too
If you have not read the books, they will blow you away.
@Ron Walsh I haven't yet but I will, the TV show was great I hope they bring it back.
It's crazy looking at that early, anime style design. But definitely fun watching the evolution to the grounded, realistic design we see on the screen.
It REALLY reminds me of the Zentraedi ships from Macross
I am a simple man...I see a new Spacedock video...I give thumbs up...
I wish they were books and tutorials on Spacecraft design, everything from hero ships to military to civilian industrial craft.
Maybe as humanity expands (excuse the pun) into our solar system and we’ll need larger, heavier vessels constructed in orbit, it’ll become way less of a niche and maybe more commonly discussed.
I'm fully cognizant of the reasoning behind the top-to-bottom layout of ships in the Expanse, and some part of me appreciates the way the show makes a real effort to fit the ships and their tech into the mold of real-world physics and logic....
But god, I love a traditional 'horizontal' ship layout, where the shipbuilders basically keep to a wet navy design, but incorporating the required engines, airlocks, bulkheads and ventral/dorsal weapons emplacements that a spacefaring vessel requires.
The logical design appeals to my brain, the old-style design speaks to my soul.
Naval style would just make no sense in this universe. They use thrust to simulate gravity.
@@kyle857 Weird. I assumed the phrase "I'm fully cognizant of the reasoning behind the top-to-bottom layout of ships in the Expanse, and some part of me appreciates the way the show makes a real effort to fit the ships and their tech into the mold of real-world physics and logic" would be understood by anyone with a basic understanding of English and a semi-functional brain, and yet, well, here you are, utterly failing to grasp it.
Okay then.
@@Etaukan No need to be an asshole dude. He's just saying that even if they wanted to, it'd be impossible in their universe, much less practical.
this is a bit off topic of the expanse universe but reading your comment... well here goes...there are rumors of actual naval space craft in our universe being built in naval submarine factories. they launch as subs but their propulsion system is in secret very exotic technology. "electrogravitic" in nature. with "zero point energy reactors" for the power needed to create an bubble em field that can pretty much cancel earths field once its in resonance. to create linear movement they actually modulate the magnetic field sort of like a helicopter tilts rotors to move direction-ally the fields pulse and charge is changed. this seems pretty interesting if true to me because a sub has to deal with alot of the same forces a space craft would.
11:15 This does look like something out of Halo. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Anlace-class frigate, which is the one on the title screen of Halo 5. We barely know what that thing looks like, but the known concept art looks a hell of a lot like this.
First design reminds of the Zentradi ships from Macross.
As to not fitting the setting if the 2350 start date for the Expanse is correct if you go back from today 329 years it's 1692 just after the invention of the Flintlock and the same for ships finally doing away with fore and aftercastles as guns replaced boarding as the main form of naval combat.
My point being is that it's such a huge jump forward that a future spaceship could look like anything. Hell we could be having wars between Earth and Mars with ships looking like 40K for Earth and Gundam or hell Vorlon for Mars.
Yeah it remind me of 80s and 90s anime sci-fi ships. Macross, irresponsible captain tylor etc.
Exactly what I thought about the first design. Very reminescent of Zentraedi ships from original Macross!
In my head the ships from Laconia are like that. But blue.
Ooh yeah, beat me to it
That first one is not far off how I imagined the Gathering Storm
Between the video length, the soothing voicing, and the content, this is basically Drachnifel IN SPAAAACE. I could listen to an entire channel of just this.
I'd love to see a space dock ep of season 5 of the expanse; particularly of the serrio mal and the belter ships under drummer. Love your work
This. Very much this.
That one at around 19:00 looks like it might have been recycled as an inspiration for the Morrigan-class.
EDIT: The iterative sketches that follow are quite interesting too; I'm seeing some more of the Morrigan's angled bow, and a *lot* of the engine nacelles of the Donnager as well.
The final design is very practical with regards to PDC coverage. 4/6 PDC's can fire directly forward or behind and 5/6 PDC's can fire 'broadside'. If you look at a lot of the UNN designs their ships have absolutely horrendous PDC coverage. Some of their destroyer designs can only utilise a single hardpoint in some directions.
Correct. Roci Gun placement is absolutely perfect. It can unleashed full Power with all the pdcs fired at once
Kinda makes sense though considering what we know about the UNs bureaucratic ship design process
Coolers! The wings can be coolers. not to mention the farther away the RCS thrusters are from the hull, the less fuel it would need to turn/roll.
Loved the X3 music in the background when the episode started.
fml thank you so much! its from the teladi Homesector, dude i was going mad trying to remember where its from.
@@Skittles694 thanks for pinpointing the sector, I couldn't remember the sector myself.
@@thamasteroneill i played that game to death back then, and all the music pieces for the different sectors stuck with me, they're all so great man.
Very much enjoyed this video! All I can say is we need more art books for 'The Expanse' 😃
The first one looks like a Zentraedi ship from Macross/Robotech.
I was going to say a Gamilon ship from Space Cruiser Yamato. Similar thought
Yeah very Zentraedi looking honestly.
Reminded me of some ship designs from gundam: Char's Counterattack, and 08th ms.
Came here to say just that! Honestly, almost all the 80s scifi anime had that same aesthetic.
Looks like a Zentradi warship with some kind af heat shield attached to the bottom. The split bow even looks like it has a Main beam Cannon like Robotech ships
IIRC the blast shield door for the crew airlock is activated, in the second or third episode, when they are shooting their way out of the Donnager and you see it close.
As someone who works in film and games it's great to see unused concepts
Dang, I never realized that they've gone really clever with ship names. When I write, or draw, or, especially, when I play games and need to name a new vessel, I just choose it out of the blue. Not completely, not always, but generally don't give much thought to it
Thumbs up for Seizewell in the background. Crazy to see some of these concepts, especially in light of how faithful to the novel and the science it all ended up being. That first Roci concept looks like something Laconia might have come up with. Glad they moved away from the spaceplane-style concepts though.
It would be neat to see someone do "large spaceplane" stuff though, especially if they wanted to maximize the real-world sanity of a design. I'd like to see someone design a ship with a vacuum engine thrusting up from a ventral location (probably on a telescoping arm or something, to deploy it for vacuum and stow it before reentry), preferably with a matching dorsally-mounted facility to hang from some counterweight.
Yes Seizewell is indeed a very nice choice, would have liked for Alexei's name to be mentioned somewhere in the description at least.
@@Ketraar Hey Ketraar. Maybe don't listen too closely to the outro; it sounds a lot like 00040 to me. These guys seem to be fans of the X series, though; if they were asked to provide a credit I reckon there's a good chance they'd do it.
Great work, as always! Would love to see more long, uncut videos like this for the other Expanse ships if the concept art is available!
I actually really love the mostly orange ship, it’s really nice looking and reminds me of FTL.
Kestrel and Red Tail love!
@@simonnot8487, The Kestrel is a beauty of a hero ship, I love most of FTLs ship designs to be honest.
While the Boron sector music from X3 is great, it could have done with being a bit quieter in my opinion, it was about as loud as the voices so was rather distracting.
Within 4 minutes I had a moderate headache from trying to listen to what was being said over the music so had to switch off, sorry.
I definitely want access to some higher res versions of these! Especially the set at 12:30! I love that style, and one of my hobbies is trying to design vehicles and ships, I love to collect references and those are super inspiring to me. I love a blend of sharp and smooth, nice curves with hard angles. Too blocky or bubbly and I don’t like it.. those ship designs are right up my alley and I like them a ton!
Superb video! Thank you and I hope Spacedock is gearing up for more Expanse content. I just caught up to S6xEp3 and that show just can’t help raising the bar!
Dang the music you used for this video was amazing, so relaxing. This is how music for voiceover videos SHOULD be done.
First one looks like a Zentradi cruiser from Macross. Very anime.
Gosh, I like concept art. It gives me inspiration for my own ships.
I went and checked, and i'm 99% shure the horizontal landing vents have survived the several roci refits and are, atleast as detail, still on the independent roci model.
absolutely great work guys, as another die hard fan of the expanse, it's always fascianting to see how it came into shape, i will miss the show so very much when it finishes, and really hope that some other big media company cotton onto the fact that this is worth more time
If there were ever a miniature game for The Expanse, all those alternate color schemes would be great inspiration for color schemes for task forces/squadrons/etc
The organic shapes of the hull design in drawing 82 remind me of Zentraedi warships in the old Robotech anime series.
That first image screams Zentradi from Macross/Robotech.
The vertical landing screams of Battletech's Spherical Dropships and I love it.
Vertically landing re-usable rockets are present in fiction as early as 1953, in Herge's Tintin comics. Destination Moon (1953) & Explorers on the Moon (1954). There may be even earlier examples, but this is the first piece of media I ever saw with space ships that were laid out like skyscrapers and which landed vertically.
You do actually see the blast door over the air lock close, its when the gantry retracts in the Donnager. Its even in your video about the Roci. 1:17 respectively
Over an hour of juicy Spacedock content?!?
Christmas came early.
EDIT: I really like the 4-wing, 2 PDC ship. It feels like it could work as an attack boat. The wing-tip guns mounting make me think they’re forwards facing, so maybe it’s like a fast attack ship.
oh god i love theses desings so much, can't wait to see more work like this
I like the ships in the 16-18 min marks. In the Expanse I could only see it as a drone fighter for carrier operations.
The first draft is the blueprint to greatness and the starting point for any creative out there.
Mad impressed with this video. Would love more of this content like it
Am I the only one here feeling like they went crazy in the beginning only to gradually get back to how the ship is described in books? What I imagined when reading the Leviathan is closer to what they finally came with that with any other fictional piece of machinery I've ever seen on screen on artwork. Discovery One, Dune Harverster, Martian Tripods, even the Razorback - I imagined them all differently. But the Roci is exactly what I imagined.
12:30 If (when) they do a Mass Effect sequel any one of these ships concepts would make a great successor to Normandy. Possibly the "Normandy SRX" or some other advanced prototype frigate like SR1 was.
thought the same
This was a really good commentary, Thanks guys!
Actually I checked. There is a scene in S01E04 where airlock blastshied closes when Roci leaves the Donnager.
I LOVE the way the final designs for the show came out, especially the 'vertical' aspect of it. It's pretty much forever altered my view on how space ships should be designed.
Edit: at the 25 minute mark, the focus seems to be pulsing, is there a reason for that?
Oh, and the comment on the VLS stuff you mentioned 30-40 min mark, technically they'd be horizontally launched while the canon version has VLS, as the advantage is if the missiles/torpedoes align with the direction of felt gravity. Not to mention having to run all of that torpedo through the hull.
The first concept image had very Space Battleship Yamato esthetic.
I was thinking Zentraedi, but yeah!
My first thought when I saw the ship in the show is that it looks VERY similar to I think the flak frigate from Homeworld: Cataclysm. Looks the same in action too with all those guns...
Its so important that they travel and land vertically because they don't use artificial gravity which makes it more realistic. Gravity is a major factor in the show which makes the show a must see for us science nerds. I fell in love with the show specifically because they got so much right about the design of the ships.
The second version of The Roci shown would definitely fit as a smaller transport ship in Star Wars.
Masten Space Systems were working on vertical take off/landing rockets in the early 2000's. Not many people seem to know about it though. Their Xombie rockets were doing mid-air restarts back in 2010.
So Normandy?
whoa, thanks for that one. Great stuff.
Man that first ship is a lot of how I pictured Laconian Destroyers. Like. Eerily exact.
Starting off with X3 background music, good choice.
My problem with what they ended up with is the inside sets would not fit inside the exterior model they use.
I know I'm late to the party, but the blast shield for the doors is one of the first things we see in the show when the Tachi is introduced. When the bridge/crossway retracts on the Donnager, just before they take off, the blast shield closes to cover the airlock.
That first concept looks like it could have been pulled right out of Macross as some human/Zentradi hybrid ship.
The initial Weta design heatshield also looks like it could alternately reposition as hull armor and blast shielding for the forward command deck and drive cones. The vertical landing had the authenticity of a conventional burst deceleration along the lines of Battle: Los Angeles
That 3rd group of concept arts shown at around 12:40 really looks like something out of Eve Online.
I always like much much more the early concepts than the final result, either in movies, shows, or video games.
During the Thoth Station battle a railgun round punches through the blast shield over the airlock, but laterally, so it only goes through the shield left-to-right and doesn't damage the actual airlock door - it's really lucky, they almost literally dodged a bullet. In a later episode there's an establishing shot of the Roci being repaired at Tycho where you can see a new shield being fitted.
The re-entry shield on the first prototype looks so much like the shield that mobile suits sometimes surf into atmosphere on in Gundam
I really appreciate the depth of this video. Great 👍
An hour of the expanse on spacedock. I am ok with this.
Whoa. Seizewell music in the background? Man that brings back fond memories of X3.
Tail-sitting Vertical landing ships are from the Golden Age of comics and serial movies.
The US Navy sponsored Vought to build tail-sitter fighters to be used on smaller US Navy ships in the 50s-60s.
The LEM could be considered a tail-sitter.
The Gunstar from The Last Starfighter is most definitely a tail-sitter. It's from 1983-4.
And as others have mentioned, McDonnell Douglas' DC-X Delta Clipper.
As an engineer, the artist was correct when he mentioned tail-sitting being the more reasonable structural option, as the ship would be designed to take the thrust of the engines in the axial direction, meaning you wouldn't have to add structural elements to take load in the transverse direction, which would be required if it were to land horizontally like an airplane.
Fitting you should describe that first concept as "anime-esque" because my immediate thought upon seeing it is that it looks like something the Zentraedi would use in Macross.
When the Knight crew takes command of the Tachi/Rocinante for the first time, the blast door does come down after it undocks from the stairway the ship was docked to.
The version at 18:29 would work great as a sub-orbital or atmospheric craft.
This is an iterative artist approach where the artist submits a bunch of exploratory concepts so that the Production Designer can select one or a few for the artist to pursue in more depth.
i should have waited for the whole thing to end..... this is 23:54 is a Roci i could have lived on, its awesome and i think i like it more than the actual design , its more along the newer mcrn ships. love it
Just FYI: McDonald Douglas was conducting vertical landings from 1993 to 1996 with the Delta Clipper.
I would pay money for an expanse artbook!
Just quickly commenting here to tell you that you can actually see the blast shield over the airlock in the show. Towards the end of S1 E4, when the Tachi undocks from the Donnager, you can see the catwalk retracting and the blastshield sliding over the airlock.
Drawing #81 gives me Space Battleship Yamato series vibes where the space ships are mostly look like conversions of existing sea going naval ships with a wing
I mean, the vertically-orientated ship designs are so deliciously functional... How is that not where future ship design is headed?
I wonder if the running horse decal in 53:46 is a play on the name Tachi, since it's the greek word for "fast" or "rapid".
Or Rocinante, which means workhorse.
There's another blink and you miss it MCRN Corvette. When the Arboghast is descending to the surface of Venus, the MCRN ship that rushes past looks to be the same class as the Roci.
Just to know. We actually see the blast door close in the series. In the 4th Episode of the First Season when the roci escapes from the Donnager it removes the bording bridge and simultaneously close the blast door.
The blast shield moving down and covering the airlock door IS shown when the team escapes from Donnager. I think its only shown once in the entire series.
I'm on such an Expansive long burn right now that I've just cancelled my plans for the next 1:17:00.
This was fantastic, very helpful and informative.
Horizontally oriented ships don't make sense in the show where most of action happens in space. If you absolutely have to shoehorn the idea that spaceships are spaceplanes, a flying triangle would work. A ship like that could fly face first (top forward, not edge forward, kind of like Slave I) in space, and behave like a plane in atmosphere (like Valkyrie dropship from Avatar). In space under thrust up would be forward, so crew could walk around the same way the would in planetary gravity. It could also make sense for a space craft that pulls double duty, some sort of long range dropship repurposed for interplanetary or inter stellar travel.
Also, it's Scipio Africanus, not Scorpio.
That first design kinda makes me think of the very spoilery ships from an unnnamed rebellious colony from the later books....
@22:10 When I first saw the Pella I actually thought the Free Navy obtained a Donnager and didnt realize it wasn't until I looked up on the wiki
The full orange concept reminds my of the RNLI coast guard ships in the UK. similar angles aswell
I appreciate the work that goes into doing these videos but they’d be even better if you’d included key design references on Roci versions like the one at 16:00 which is obviously based mostly on the B-1b bomber, especially the whole top half and “wings”. Take a look at video “True reason why America’s enemies still fear the B-1 bomber”. Basically they put a wedge on the front of a B-1b and added some landing thrusters.
I did enjoy your video and saw a few new things.
Final design of Roci also refers to stealth US Navy ships like Zumwalt which have also tested railguns. That effort seeems to have failed at this point. In Spring 2021 Adm. John Richardson said, “the engineering of building something like that that can handle that much electromagnetic energy and not just explode is challenging,” adding, “This is how innovation maybe shouldn’t happen.”
7:39 shows a surprising lack of research for an otherwise very well-conceived show. In 1996 the McDonnell Douglas DC-X successfully landed vertically. Not nearly as publicized as Virgin's 2018 efforts, but I'm surprised this apparently never came up during their research. Other vertical takeoff/vertical landing systems were theorized and researched going back to the 1960s, if not even earlier.
The XFY Pogo was tested in the 50s. Though that’s a plane and not a rocket.
@Spacedock The first rendering looks like something out of the anime “Space Battleship Yamato”.
I love concept art. This is great stuff.
I'm so glad that they ended up going with near-realistic designs for ships, rather than sci-fi space jets.
A bit late too the party, but those antennas had a really military function. At least in the books electronic warfare is really important and the roci has top notch sensors and sensor jamming epuipment. I always picture those antennas to be that
This is excellent, a great deep dive.
My only disappointment with the Rocinante onscreen was that she doesn't land on her keel like in the books. I realise they do address this with modification, but landing on her arse does limit her landing positions, especially on the frontier where they don't have the infrastructure to support it, and so far she has been lucky to find cliffs and elevations to extend the docking ring onto to allow egress.
Ooohhh. X3 music! Very fitting.
The Roci actually *would* need extra engines to land because if they used the main one it would blow a crater in the ground.
Yep. Happens on takeoff in the books one time, they go full main right after flip slagging the pad and the next 5 stories below. Also no radioactive exhaust in atmo. And she wouldnt need landing thrusters, as i imagine the maneuvering thrusters on a warship should easily pull 5g. Jist uses a ton of water