Space Elevators in Science Fiction
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024
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Spacedock delves into the fascinating but flawed concept of Space Elevators.
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Great video.
An orbital ring could perform the same function as space elevators with less problems and have multiple uses, which can justify them in a scifi setting.
Check out Isaac Arthur's orbital ring episodes for more info.
can we get a list of sources for all the video kills to check out the animes, movies, game and co!?
That would be so sweet, so we can explore what is at least out there already without searching too long.
A lunar space elevator would be of only limited use because the Moon's relative lack of atmosphere allows for a wider variety of low-energy launch methods. For instance, you could build magnetic accelerators on the surface capable of launching payloads to orbit - or on sub-orbital trajectories between settlements.
But can you buy self-sealing stem bolts in PU? ;-)
Would you consider a massive gravity lift as a space elevator. Like the one you use to get into the Truth and Reconciliation on Halo. Like place a space station in geosynchronous orbit with a space on the ground below if clear of any obstacles. Then basically have a really strong tractor beam pulling things up into it.
My favorite part about the space elevators in Gundam 00 is the impact they had on the countries of earth. These elevators were attached to a huge photovoltaic array encircling the planet. There were only 3 elevators with access to the array, and so what does humanity do? They form factions/alliances around access to the power from these towers. I love how also since fossil fuels were no longer the primary energy source, the middle east experienced an economic collapse.
As much as I love Gundam, none of the politics for the Alternate universes made any sense except 00
And that's before getting into how their mere construction sparked the Solar Power wars, a long string of conflicts brought about due to the economic impacts building them had.
You love that a region collapsed?🙄
In series they also admit that the elevators were fragile
The G-Reconguista space elevator was cool. Terrestrial Humanity depended on it so long for their energy needs that a de facto religion wound up being formed around it. Also America still existing in some form well past the creation of the elevators and their accompanying mythologizing tickled me a bit to.
Nice to see the Lighthouse show up. Given the fact that railguns and massive airships are a not-uncommon thing in the setting, a space elevator isn't much of a stretch.
There’s that theory that Strangereal Earth has less gravity for some reason
In a universe where nations can build a number of 4th-5th generation fighter jets rivaling production numbers of ww2 prop planes (and a single particularly determined pilot can shoot them all down), the industry required for a space elevator seems a lot more achievable. Always good to see Ace Combat get some recognition, it really deserves to be seen as the iconic IP it is.
@@GoldenSkies061 not to mention obscure prototypes such as the Su-47 in our world are “elite issue” in theirs
@@tlshortyshorty5810 that theory falls flat when you realize the games set in our world handle the same and have the same tech.
@@whiskeycorridor90 simple
their fictional version of irl earth has lower gravity
In Star Wars there is a space elevator to planet Quarzite which appeared in the Clone Wars series. The reason why it's even there is that the planet's atmosphere is so pressurized that it would make a starship implode. So the starships go to a space station from which the passangers/cargo to the planet via this space elevator.
bull shit!!!!
i don't deny that episode is a thing but NO, if the planet atmosphere is overpressurized and a ship can't take it then no biological being can either.....this is why new star wars sucks cus they make too many great leaps in logic....or science that everyone knows won't work....seriously that shit sounds so dumb.....and people think filoni is the shiznit?? that there just proves how stupid he is LMAO!!!
on earth there's a thing called crush depth, when pressure is so much that it crushes the object??? well if that's what's happening to ships then nothing biological will survive at least nothing humanoid and nothing that does not evolve from that planet.....and don;t give me any oh well below the atmospgere it's okay NO, it doesn;t fly cus then whatever zone has the pressure will crush whatever tech they put there GTFO Filoni!!!! idiot!! sorry but Disney tests my nerves....
What episode?
I don't remember that one
@@scottland8698 The one where Assaj Ventress goes her own way and becomes a bounty hunter after being betrayed by count Dooku. In the episode she teams up with a couple of bounty hunters led by a very young Boba Fett to do an cargo escort mission which, unsurprisingly, goes completely pear shaped. Even more so when the ex sith assassin finds out that the 'cargo' they were escorting was in fact a young girl. Wasn't too bad an episode, had some very compelling character moments and also showed a character I hadn't seen much of in mainstream star wars, i.e Dengar.
The big issue with space elevators is when the lift gets stuck, and you have to use the stairs …
Stairs! In my day we only had ladders! 😉
Po: "My nemesis!"
Stairs. No you get a oxygen bottle and a chute.
Have fun on your trip down
Oh shet
Why not just use the emergency enclosed rail pod in case things go down the tubes?
I remember playing a Stellaris Mod that gives you the ability to make Space Elevators that can connect a Colony world with an Orbiting Habitat structure, giving bonuses to both. the Habitat got a bonus to resource production and the Planetary Colony got a bonus to Trade Value. i thought that was pretty neat.
What mod is that?
@@peterknutsen3070 I think Gigastructural Engineering has something like that, though the newest DLC has something similar too.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
It needs a way to re align or stay firm straight while the structure collapses slowly.
Seems to me the Space Elevator should be considered a Galactic Wonder, or whatever the Stellaris equivalent.
@@hoojiwana the new DLC has "orbital Rings" which are like smaller Starbases that orbit a planet. they got some unique buildings and modules on them that do quite a bit, from expanding the number of Districts you can build on the planet by up to four districts to improving the resource output of resource output of specific resources. you can also put weapon modules on them and the "defense supercomputer" building and get another 20 or so defense platforms to the system defenses in addition to the starbase's defenses. the ONLY downside to these is you can't build them on Orbital Habitats so you can't really make a bastion fortress of half a dozen habitats with guns in a system. the thing about orbital rings though is that they seem to have an sort of grav-lift system connecting it to the planet below, up to four of them at the highest upgrade level. between Orbital Rings and the buffs given to defense platforms and Starbases in general static defenses are a lot more viable in the current version of Stellaris. you still will likely have trouble keeping a doom fleet of 50 Battleships and 10 titans from rolling over your static defenses, but that's all end-game issues anyway
The Mars novels by Kim Stanley Robinson also featured a Martian space-elevator. I believe the lower gravity of Mars made that more practical.
But given the massive infrastructure and risks, your orbital shuttle strikes me as much more practical and cost-effective.
Bad things happened to it.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
@@SirAroace Could see a space elevator being useful in a world where larger space ships are not able to land due to gravity; maybe the universe doesn’t have perfect control of gravity/anti-grav. So use an elevator to carry large items to big for a shuttle to take into orbit
@@SirAroace depends..... Current NASA estimates (discounting infrastructure $$) puts a space elevator at 500$ per lb to space as opposed to 50k$ per lb....
Depends on whether some revolutionaries knock the elevator over
There could also be a need for strong regulations. Any strong enough engine on a space ship is a weapon. Any ship big enough can blow up part of a by just falling on it. A concerned government would keep interplanetary craft away at lunar orbit.
Note: While building a 100-200km tall structure is all but impossible with known materials, we don't need to rely on just material strength. A number of designs exist that use active support to build structures that tall. Active support basically means that rather then just resting on the material below it, pushing down with all its weight, each level instead pushes magnetically against a stream of iron ball bearings sent upward by a coil gun. Effectively, the building would be a stack of hoverboards. As long as it has power, it will keep floating up at that height, but when the power is gone it collapses in on itself (like an accordion). It hasn't been tried at any significant scale, since we're still working on either being absolutely sure the structure will always have power or finding a way to have it collapse down completely safely in emergencies.
Isaac Arthur's YT channel has a number of videos on Megastructures and is big on active support.
Big shoutout to Isaac Arthur's Upward Bound series for more on orbital infrastructure like the aforementioned space towers, the space elevators and skyhooks discussed in the video, as well as many other future ways of getting to orbit cheaply.
The idea of a building collapsing safely is highly suspect to me, I can already see problems with this concept. Still, I want to see a building made of hoverboards. My cell phone would probably stop working as soon as it entered the magnetic field, but it'd be worth it for the novelty.
The recoil of the gun shooting the ball bearings would be identical to the structural load. If it wasn't conservation of energy would be violated.
The strain would be on the coil/rail support. This is already a hot topic in research, because it is very trivial to builds a rail gun that'll destroy itself in 1(highly inaccurate) shot.
Magnets/coils not destroying their housing/self has been a big problem since the 70's.
@@hugmynutus Not entirely true. Part of what magnetic acceleration allows for is the transference of imparted kinetic energy via electromagnetic potential energy, to heat and potentially some kinds of EMP. All depending on the technology involved you can mitigate the amount of 'recoil'. Also something like a coil gun has little to no recoil compared to the mass or acceleration of the projectile because the energy is being directed imparted to the projectile. Meaning that the coils (or rails in the case of rail guns) take great thermal exchange in return for the acceleration. It doesn't remove the opposing kinetic force entirely, but mitigates it by orders of magnitude compared to one object pushing against another. Newtonian Physics as generally taught outside of higher education/entry into the fields of certain types of engineering and physics itself, are greatly simplified and still bound by the thoughts of the day they were created. They are still accurate. But conservation and transference of energy can come in many different flavors.
The level of technology described here is found in basically every Gundam series, which makes sense as it's the origin of the "real robot" subgenre of mecha anime. 'G no Reconguista' even features a whole religion based on orbital elevators, the amusingly named "SU-Cordism" ("SU" standing for "Space Umbilical").
Awesome seeing Gundam represented in some form here. Could've used 00 a bit more with how they use Space Elevators. Not just to transport cargo either way, but also energy directly to the surface from its solar collectors.
Also provide an interesting solution for powering MS, instead of having a risky nuclear reactor or carrying a huge battery they use a beam power from the orbital ring.
@@deregapreyahvattaffdiff They do that with the deuterium beam from a carrier ship in Gundam SEED Destiny.
Yeah. The rails on LEO orbit connecting and supporting the towers also is very practical in design.
Sucks that that's the highest quality footage of the Break Pillar Incident I can find on YT but I was also welcomely surprised to see it
@@deregapreyahvattaffdiff I can't remember, didn't the predecessor of the Tieren run on Diesel? That was kind of neat.
IIRC the Hellion and Realdo ran off of some kind of hydrogen, when came the Flag and Enact they just ran off the solar panel like you said. Been a while since I dug into the stuff but I always liked the global superpower MS more than Celestial Being. Still be dope to have an OVA about the solar power wars and CB is basically just sneaking around and not even really in the show.
Trantor's Space Elevator in the Foundation TV series was amazing. Its destruction and collapse was horrifying.
A shame most of the rest of the season was horrid
It was the best bit of the show, that’s not saying much mind, but that sequence is why I finished the show.
It was something quite Awesome and horrifying to watch.
Kinda like the show being true to the book series, you want to watch but you see it completely wrecking itself. 😄
"Wrapped around the planet like a garotte" was genuinely a good line. A shame about the rest of the show...
The novel Halo: Silent Storm describes Covenant space elevators as just being massively upscaled versions of their regular gravity lifts, which seems like a potential solution to a lot of these problems, because you don't actually need a material connection. (You still need a geosynchronous orbit, of course.)
As Isaac Arthur always says... "active support".
Sounds more like a space fountain, which Isaac Arthur had a video on
Even then, they really don't need them, since in halo ships weighing a billion+ tons (see CSO, CAS, Infinity) can simply hover in atmosphere, so there's really no need for such tech.
I love the Gundam 00 solar orbital space elevators, they built 3 with 1 in north America/1 in Europe/1 in Aisa with all 3 connected to a orbital solar grid of some kind providing full green solar power for the world(its set in the 24th century and gas/oil ran out by then. Its also a space elevator allowing people and stuff to travel freely.
I Gundam 00 is an orbital ring
European elevator is actually built in Africa since all 3 elevators are built at the equator.
@@anuvisraa5786 It's both orbital ring and space elevators.
The Expeditionary Force by Craig Alanson makes use of Space elevators quite a bit.. Heck they even explain how they prevent cables that might have snaped from causing massive ground damage by having attached a explosives along the length of the cable to make sure if it breaks it gets blasted into small chunks that won't cause as much harm.
Glad to find another fan of that incredible series. Definitely not talked about enough in Sci-fi circles. Really looking forward to the last book next month.
@@taudvore259 Second last book :P It's book 14 next month book 15 is set for December this year.. With the first book in Craig Alanson's new serie in between with a release date of Aguest the 2 :)
Skkkkiiiiippppppyyy!
ALL HAIL SKIPPY
I only read a few of those books so didn't get to any of the ones with space elevators but emergency explosives to detach the cable into smaller pieces was something I was considering, perhaps with some sort of booster system to lower them to the ground or keep them in orbit depending on their location. Another thing I thought about that would make space elevators practical in the near future was counter grav. While this sounds like science fiction, it has been proven that you can change physics in a limited area. This of course takes a good bit of power but theoretically, even if it was limited, countering gravity in a limited area could make a space elevator viable and also potentially allow it to be shorter. Just a few thoughts I had with my admitted limited scientific understanding. The hurdles we need to overcome other than simply making it work would be the jackasses that would attempt to destroy it. I mean, I can already hear all the other nations trying to stop a project like this for any number of reasons.
The Dread Empires Fall series, one of the best hard science fiction book series ever imo, has space elevators around their worlds connected to an enormous orbital ring station. Call the Accelerator Rings they are built around enormous particle accelerators to produce antimatter for ship fuel and their primary armaments, antimatter missiles.
I remember in Gundam 00, the orbital elevator was build with a lower-orbit ring, in which electricity is send through this to create a Lorentz force away from Earth's surface with Earth's magnetic field, this way it provided a sort of "counter-gravity" to maintain the space elevator with easier materials.
Also in that world the 3 space elevators act as anchors to each other, essentially made two concentric orbital ring one at GEO the other at LEO. This design is incredibility hard to build, but may be the only functional design for a Earth based space elevator.
Regarding shipping things up and down a space elevator: Most industrial processes would still likely be planet bound, because they're genuinely not designed for, or functional, in a space-based environment. (Ore foundries, for example, aren't really possible in a microgravity vacuum for a lot of reasons.) So you'd have raw materials shipped down and finished product shipped up.
I'm really not that familiar with ore foundries. Would artificial centrifugal gravity substitute actual gravity well enough for the purposes of industry? That one's fairly easy to get in orbit, given the not insignificant resources to build rotating habitats of course.
@@cristianlungu5732 It wouldn't Foundries cast metal, which requires melting it. Safety alone would cause some issues; molten metal would not be something you want to have around if something should require halting rotation. But the biggest issue with foundries is heat. An orbital foundry casting steel would have to radiate 1370 degrees celsius and up (depending on type and quality of the steel) in addition to any solar heating, and if something should damage a radiator it'd rapidly prove lethal for anyone aboard.
@@JustAnotheNeoSilver On the topic of heat, cant you just vent the excess heat into space?
@@chanachon56 Even though space is very cold the fact that it has no atmosphere means that the rate of heat transfer is very very slow between it and solid objects, that is because the heat can only be exchanged by radiating it away which is the slowest form of heat transfer.
That is why one of the most realistic space ships design in sci-fi (the Venture Star from Avatar) has those massive red glowing sections on it’s back radiating the heat all of it’s equipment are generating into space.
@@yazanmowed I didn't think a vaccuum had a temperature, so space can't really be hot or cold.
I really like how Gundam 00 did the orbital elevator. Having 3 massive towers going into space arround the equator holding up a lower and higher orbital ring with solar panels to also supply power to the ground.
Turn A gundam has a space elevator in its lore.. connected to south america. sadly it was destroyed at some point in the apocalyptic history of that Gundam setting.
I’m loving all the Gundam clips.
I like the Elevator system they had in Gundam 00. It isn't just used as transportation, they were built to solve Earth's energy crisis. The three Elevators around Earth act as anchor points for the Dyson-like ring where solar energy collectors are built. The solar arrays are high enough to avoid Earth's shadow and use microwave to transmit the power down to receivers on Earth.
If transportation was the only reason, the elevators would have never been built in that universe.
Glad to see that Gundam finally get some attention. It almost always seems to get glossed over in Sci-fi circles despite practically being Japans answer to Star Wars. Hope to see some more focused episode on it some time in the future. And really surprised to see footage from Turn A given it is one of the franchises more obscure shows.
It's been ages since I read it, but Arthur C Clark's novel 3001: The Final Odyssey featured space elevators. There were 4 of them, spread evenly across the equator, that connected to an orbital ring.
That is the most structural based thing
His novel "The Fountains of Paradise" is mostly about building a space elevator.
Honestly, I think the risk of tether collapse is overstated. The cable would be crashing into earth at its own terminal velocity, not orbital velocity, and the same tech that lets you make these cables also lets you make superlight parachutes. Granted a cable as thick as a skyscraper is going to do the same damage of a collapsing skyscraper (everywhere the elevator falls), but more sane designs less that a few meters in diameter wouldn't devastate whole cities. A design with safety in mind might include parachutes, small shaped charges, and smart computer control for both to break the cable into sections on trajectories calculated to minimize damage.
Also in real life the cables people talk about building in the next 2 centuries aren't thicker than a persons arm and wouldn't even irreparably destroy a residential house. Certainly something to worry about, but not a city killer.
Surely reentry into the atmosphere for most of the cable's length would result in burning up as well? After the first couple of hundred kilometers it'd be moving at a high enough speed to vaporize on reentry.
@@Yookusagra Possibly. If it's like diamond, it'd be very hard to burn too.
I believe there was a Zone of the Enders anime that explored that. A single elevator cable could wrap around the entire circumference of the Earth plus extra. Do you know how much damage that could cause? Imagine having to evacuate an entire stretch of land around the entire world just because some megalomaniac fuckhead decided to commit a warcrime.
@@BrokenLifeCycle Yes because A thin thread Of Carbon nanotubes or graphene Can need evacuation of it falls beside just blow it up
No need for parachutes, the ideal solution would be to simply blow up the parts that are close enough to fall down and having the rest pulled out onto an Earth escape trajectory or even simply blown into smaller segments with their own ability to deorbit into uninhabited areas.
A.C. Clarke's " The Fountains of Paradise" first introduced me to the idea in '79. The book won Hugo and Nebula awards for best novel.
Space elevators always fascinated me as a concept, and in the setting I'm working on has quite an interesting one - that being one around a habitable moon. Basically the main planet is a moon on the lower edge of habitability when it comes to size and mass, and orbits close to a super earth and is tidally locked. And this leaves two possible places you can easily build a space elevator. The elevators run from the surface to its L1 and L2 points with the larger body, using its orbital velocity rather than its rotational velocity. As a result, they only have to be 5000 kilometres long, which is much easier to build.
Sounds great and is exactly what I was talking about!
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
Y'know, that's a brilliantly inventive example of what I meant upthread about how you'd have to really tightly change/constrain the parameters to make it realistically viable. Bravo!
I'm also now very interested in hearing a lot more about this setting. ;)
Glad to see MS Gundam represented here. Reconguista in G, while not a favorite of mine focuses a lot of space elevators specifically.
Same with 00, both very effective uses of the system
Yeah, and the scene from when another elevator gets blasted and bits start falling off was from Gundam 00, my personal favorite. ^^
@@LtCWest It was a great episode, but also: Fuck Andrei forever.
@Neo Alteisen In the movie, Descartes Shaman getting taken out was shocking in spite of how little we'd seen of the character because he'd been hyped up as a rival. Graham Aker sacrificing himself was sad but also a satisfying end for his arc (and then he got better :P). When Andrei went out all I could think was "meh".
@Neo Alteisen The one guy in all of anime with more plot armor than a SEED protagonist.
“A Certain Magicical Index: Miracle of Endymion” features a massive space elevator. As does the anime “Eureka Seven”, although it’s not really “featured” as it only shows up a few times towards the end of the series.
Orbital Rings are where it's at. Buildable with mass-production materials we have today, massive cheap lift capacity, equally massive living space capacity, provision for space-based power production, and electromagnetic launch/capture capability to/from other worlds.
I really love the turn A series, it is such a wonderful post apocalyptic setting.
It wasn't for cargo but "Deliver us the Moon" had a lunar space elevator (though the elevator was for getting people to and from the station at the top and the settlement on the surface)
Nice I'll check it out!
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
Just referred to this on another thread. As I watched this video, that jumped up in memory.
I am glad to see 00 Gundam in this.
The space elevators serve two purposes in that show, easy orbital access and anchor points for two rings made of solar collectors.
And political tension.
I recall that there was a plan to destroy the Earth in the anime Zone of the Enders: Dolores I. It pretty much revolved around destroying the anchor station of the planet's orbital elevator. The plan was thwarted, but the devastation had it fallen was described as being a mass extinction event for humans.
Loved that anime. I want to say the last DVD included details to their plan. Plans that showed the effect of detaching counterpoint station (the large asteroid at the other end of the elevator) and the structure crashing back to Earth.
So glad that someone else remembers that show.
GUNDAM?? IN MY SPACE DOCK?? FINALLY
One of my favorite sci-fi topics. A lunar space elevator is within the realms of materials science & would be a big help for lunar colonization.
Really like those "overview"-videos (FTL-drives, pulsars, doors etc.) you're putting out lately!
Glad you enjoy them!
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
I lost it at the Skyhooks "They yeet their payload" color me deceased.
Love the rotovator description. Bubblegum Crisis had one of those. Also, Schlock Mercenary had a Lunar elevator.
I was wondering how low I was going to have to scroll to see the Hellavator mentioned
I was almost.. just almost disappointed for the Space Elevator from Ace Combat 7 almost not mentioned, given that Space Elevator is used as a massive communication tower, a massive energy gatherer and has a Spacedock for spacecraft it's one of my favorite additions to the world of Strangereal were superweapons are common and overpower and cool looking jets soar through the endless skies.
Sorry, but, did you read the "Fountains Of Paradise" from master Sir Arthur Charles Clarke ? in this work there are an orbital elevator system based on a theoretical material that are very similar to what is called today as Carbon nanotubes . Like all of Mr Clarke's work, all physics laws are respected . ( and you even mention it !!! )
The Red Mars book series by Kim Stanley Robinson would be a great series to be made into a tv show in that story a space elevator is often used as a plot point
Spike tv had greenlit a tv show back in 2014 with Joe Michael Straczynski as showrunner but he left in 2016 and it's been stuck in Development Hell since
Gundam, for all it’s wild sci-fantasy aspects has put out a number of good series with solar-system only warfar/travel that always seems refreshing
Honestly in a lower-tech setting it would be easier and safer to either create a magnetically accelerated SSTO design (think the spaceport from Ace Combat 5), or if all you're sending up is material then just launching it up via a long range cannon could work too.
An orbital tether is shown in the anime "Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040". The game "Xenoblade Chronicles 2" gets destruction of an artificial orbital ring and space elevator pretty accurate as far as I can tell.
Man, I'd really would love to see a list about the shows that are used for the B footage!!
For example that anime -space hook.
If anyone sees this and knows where it's from, please reply
@@cristianlungu5732 7:10 was from Turn A Gundam.
@@Hatsuzuki808 Thank you very much
6:08 to 6:26 was from Gundam 00.
@@voltronimusprime3833 THANK YOU!
Any idea on the one from 7:10?
I’ve never seen a version of the orbital rings that SFIA mentions every few episodes. Seems more plausible than a space elevator
John Scalzi's "Old Mans War" started with a Space Elevator known as the Beanstalk sending retirees and 3rd world citizens off to space. One of the later books see's the Beanstalk destroyed in a terrorist action. But the falling debris is mitigated as the nano machines used to build it up are severed on a micro level scattering to the wind. Kind of like the Space Hotel seen in Thunderbirds season 1 episode 14 Falling Skies.
Anime sees many Space Elevators. The first that comes to mind is the one in "Zone of the Enders". Like the Beanstalk it is the target of a Mars terrorist with the counterweight station being targeted this time. The ADV's DVD release had extras that showed what would happen if counterweight station was detached from the space elevator as the elevator crashes back to the Earth. Unlike the Beanstalk it was made of normal materials and would not safely break up causing massive destruction.
A second space elevator was seen in one of the Dirty Pair OVA/movies where it was shown as more of a space ring. This Ring was seen briefly at the start of the OVA an came across as a Vegas resort/Amusement park. Its only there for the Lovely Angels to try and catch some crooks before their normal effects of total chaos.
A third Space Elevator appeared the Anime "Tekkaman Blade". It was invaded by aliens who the Space Knights then begin to fight back in hopes of retaking the Earth.
Many more come to mind but I can not remember the names off the top of my head. Same with manga, I can think of more then I can count, but because I borrowed a number of those, I can not reliably recall the names reliably.
Last in Robert a Heinleins "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" the moon does use rail gun like catapults to launch shipments to earth. A hidden catapult is used by lunar citizens when they begin their fight to attain self rule and independence.
When it comes to material/personnel transport I view the space elevator to rocket comparison similarly to trains vs aircraft. Space Elevator/trains are higher upfront cost option that are the far more sustainable, long-term option while rockets/aircraft are the cheaper, faster choice but require more and non-renewable energy (for now) to achieve the same transport by weight.
I appreciated the Gundam 00 footage showing up.
Well done video, loved the information.
Thank-you!
The mere mention of momentum exchange tethers @ skyhooks from Turn A Gundam made me smile....
But it can be a daunting and scary task to time one's speed and/or velocity just to be caught by that thing, before being yeeted to the Moon or somewhere else in Solar System.
IMO David Gerrold had one of the best fictional descriptions of a space elevator in his book "Jumping Off The Planet."
7:42 I see you sneaking Lighthouse from Ace Combat 7 in there. Nice to know that this franchise is getting more attention.
Pleased to see Gundam 00 here. The solar ring is such a cool and distinct feature of the setting.
man I love that tether in Forward Unto Dawn, I basically watch the entire beginning of the movie just to get to that invasion scene
"space fountains" are a good alternative to tension-based elevators. While they do require considerable ongoing energy for active support, they don't have to be built on or near the equator and can be considerably shorter in height. Plus, they don’t require any sort special material to build and maintain (I.e. carbon nanotubes)
The android universe has a space elevator called the beanstalk built in Ecuador teethed by an asteroid called the challenger planetoid, there’s a station halfway up the beanstalk, and the challenger memorial ferry goes from the port on the planetoid to the moon, the moons where most of earth’s power comes from with helium 3 for fusion, mars is colonised and terraforming has started but its currently undergoing a civil war that’s lasted 15
You should do more videos on sci-fi infrastructure… like coolest or most logical sci-fi buildings, bases, or prisons like the one from Guardians of the Galaxy built into an asteroid..
I love these videos and there is plenty to explore!
The setting of Lancer RPG has an interesting relationship with space elevators; most governments eschew space elevators because humanity built one during their brief golden age when reclaiming ancient caches of technology, but it was severed during an ensuing global war, causing a huge amount of devastation. Most polities instead use skyhooks instead.
It's worth mentioning that a lunar cargo elevator would need to have its center of mass at the Earth-Moon L1 point, since the Moon rotates slowly enough that synchronous orbits can't exist within its gravitational sphere of influence
Did a thought exercise myself ... at the travel length to reach useful exosphere/outer space utility for humans is interesting just rather impractical. To elaborate, the crawler (or lift) travelling vertically at a supersonic speed would still take days to reach the space station either midway or at tether end.
Now, imagine trying to pee at that type of journey.
Space elevators are hypothetically possible, and would be pretty useful, but orbital rings are a much more practical option.
A space elevator requires some pretty wild engineering and super-materials to be safely possible, but an orbital ring would require little more than sorting out the logistics of such a huge project. No new materials, no new engineering techniques. Build a giant, soft tube of sufficient length around the planet, fabricated to be elliptical in shape, with all the necessary magnetic coils to accelerate the metallic fluid inside it...then fill it up and "pump" it through at orbital velocity. Anchor it to the peak of Mt. Chimborazo in Ecuador, and go from there. The ring will expand upward into orbit slowly and once there, provides a frame from which to add more support fluid rings, and then build tracks and really almost anything you want on it.
The initial investment would be a hell of a lot, but the thing would pay itself off in a handful of years because of how little it'll cost to get into space versus now. It might well end up being cheaper and faster to send something to space than to ship it by boat or plane anywhere.
Also, sticking one end of a cable into space (being at one potential voltage) and the other to ground (being ground) means on one hand we have access to space based power for the whole planet, on the other, really BIG lightning strike!
That is why a LEO Orbital ring on which a space elevator is attached is a better idea.
- Because it's in LEO, it free-up all other orbital domains
- It's very good to provide ships with quick access to the surface. (You can have acceleration/deceleration tracks on the things if need be)
- Easier to manage & defend as it is closer to the surface.
- Provide insane MASS to Orbit capabilities by reducing "time to orbit" & providing multiple orbital access points.
- Very stable over long time periods with minimal requirement for orbital correction.
A best example of such design is shown in the Anime Kiddy Grade.
(There is also a version shown in Gundam 00, although they went overboard by adding 2 more orbital rings at higher orbits which I think is not as efficient as a single LEO one)
These type of system are, in my opinion, the best bang for your buck in term of planetary infrastructure.
They are not as sexy though... So that's why I think we don't see them as much.
I haven't really seen any big stories with space elevators, but my first reaction of something that serves the same basic niche are the mass drivers of the Gundam franchise, which are massive structures on the Earth or Moon that are used to help propel things into space, reducing reliance on rockets for everything (or at least get around the major stumbling point of needing disposable booster rockets to get things into space).
Gundam, despite its fundamental premise of the use of humanoid vehicles being ridiculous, is surprisingly hard sci-fi after you get past that. With no artificial gravity aboard most of its spaceships, and a lot of weird scientific explanations for their otherwise unintuitive design decisions. I think there's a lot about it that would really be up this channel's alley.
Of course, the particular Gundam series I remember mass drivers mattering in was Gundam Seed, which wasn't very good so far as Gundam goes. But the franchise as a whole is still worth checking out.
The humanoid vehicles actually do make sense in the setting. At least in the UC universe. They were civilian mechs designed for hauling cargo and such. They were repurposed for combat out of necessity. And just like how certain design features remain pretty unchanged in a car due to pure habit and tradition, the humanoid form mostly stayed. And I disagree, SEED was great, it just wasn't as hard scifi. Then again, neither was anything involving newtypes.
@@darwinxavier3516 that doesn't make them make sense, why use humanoids to haul cargo?
@@Orinslayer Dexterity, versatility. Hands for manipulating objects. Legs to adapt to varied terrain.
There's this novel called ship core, it's a sci-fi that has space elevators that seem pretty realistic and during a battle it's pointed out how catastrophic it would be if the elevator fell so it seems pretty on point. There are also good space battles and even nuking a planet from orbit and it's lasting consequences.
Man, now I wanna see more kinetic payload yeeting in spaaaaaaaace.
Cheers!
P.S: More gundam on this channel please, thank you. ; )
look up Spin Launch.
I've always wanted to see a sky hook. Or one of the lower tech orbital rings. Both are easier to create and require less materials than a space elevator.
One thing that is only occasionally covered is the travel times involved in using a space elevator. You're having to use a rail system to travel a distance several times the diameter of the Earth, and since you're going straight up instead of following an orbital trajectory you're fighting gravity most of the way - which means that any amount of acceleration and even just maintaining a constant speed is felt directly as additional g-forces weighing down the passengers. You're basically talking about days of travel time spent mostly in acceleration couches.
It's funny that Gundam UC footage is included. I don't think there were any space elevators in that timelime unless you count regild century.
One could do a really tall tower using active support, or even multiple towers and build yourself an orbital ring. I agree there's room for such things in fiction where there isn't fancy FTL or torch-ships zipping around, and heck they might even be practical in our future! :)
I too would love to see more space elevators used in science fiction novels, shows and films. I'll always remember reading through 'Fear the Survivors' and how the construction of one was described in that book. That visual just stuck in my head and I definitely want to see something like that in visual media. Skyhooks are right there as a close second. 😎🦎
The really tall tower can work, but not by being a passive structure. It would have to be actively supported (held up by a continuous thrust push) which can work but require a continuous supply of power to keep whatever your pushing through the structure to keep it held up.
Agreed, more Space Elevators in Sci-Fi, particularly on moons and small planets where it makes most sense. Maybe mining operations on these and asteroids and the elevator brings the materials to freighters.
IDW's Transformers had a case of a Space Elevator/Tether failure. It was severed at the space end, on a small moon, and the resulting planetary devastation went exactly as you described here; a huge cable falling and wrapping around the planet, causing massive damage.
Players of the game "Satisfactory" make use of a space elevator that you construct early in the game and use to ship materials offworld. It seems to be feasible as the planet you play the game on has an extremely short day cycle and low gravity, indicating it's fairly small in size. But importantly, the rapid axis spin means its space elevator doesn't have to be a ridiculously high orbit like on Earth.
I personally love how Xenoblade 2 explains its own space elevator, where it was used as a research station for an extradimensional artifact that would be dangerous to test on the planet's surface. They essentially launched a probe into space which dropped a cable to the ground and built its way back up.
Old Man's War put theirs in the beginning of their first novel solely as a flex on the rest of the world.
I remember reading about lunar space elevators at one point. The main sticking point was that since the moon's rotational speed is so low, an elevator to synchronous orbit would be ridiculously long. Longer than the distance from the earth to the moon if I remember right! (I am absolutely willing to be wrong on this point, btw) So skyhooks and mass driver launchers make much more sense in on the moon.
It's easier to build space elevators on bodies with lower gravity. A Lunar elevator, for example, you could build with Kevlar and it won't break under its own mass. But you'd have to build it out past L1.
I much rather prefer Orbital Rings. Made of two parts: a spinning inner ring moving faster than orbital velocity, and a stationary outer ring magnetically separated from the inner ring. You can stand on the outer ring and experience the same gravity as the surface. You can build them at various altitudes and orbital eccentricities, You can drop tethers to various cities for multiple points of access. You can even build structures on the ring: factories, habitats, power stations, launch systems. Imagine taking an elevator to space, but it's only 100km instead of tens of thousands of kilometers. It saves time and resources.
What I find interesting here is, is that the academic discussion on space elevators and the popular conception of it don't fully align. Some differences between what is said here and the academic research in it are.
- Making the elevator far longer beyond the Earth is actually a good thing, as now you can use it to fling things away from Earth at beyond escape velocity. Structurally speaking it doesn't really add any particular complication either, not really being any harder.
- Weight of an elevator able to lift some tens to hundreds of ton to orbit are projected in the hundred to thousands of tons range usually so far I know. Meaning it is possible to launch it to orbit from Earth with for instance a Starship at a fairly affordable price. And you'd at most need to put various full length parts of it together in space. Still challenging of course, but far short of needing a full space industry. This actually makes it viable for the suggested lower tech settings as well.
- The shape suggested to be best is more like a ribbon rather then a cable. This gives more surface for an elevator to hold on to well with for instance wheels.
- The preferred shape as well as the dynamics of a space elevator prevent it from actually causing much destruction to the planet, actually have a rather safe failure mode. As in, the density of the material is less then paper, so won't do much to anything it falls on. And any cable that reaches a serious speed in atmosphere would become to hot and disintegrate. Modelling also indicates that if a very large part of cable is falling that eventually the extremity speeds up so much that it causes the cable to break in to pieces, with much of the cable catapulted out in to space.
Due to the above, the dangers of space elevators are actually rather minimal, while the actual difficulty to build the cable is far lower then one would initially think, not needing a real space industry at all, just some specialty devices.
Due to this a space elevator might be worth while to build as it is far less problematic then one would initially assume. Though there are outstanding questions on how well one can actually engineer such a cable to required needs, as well as if it would be competitive versus other means one might manage to make by that time.
In my own sci fi writing space elevators are only common on small mercury or at most mars sized planets with limited populations. For a world like Earth you would instead find orbital rings 100-200km above the surface and you basically take a tram up
the really tall tower is actually more feasible than a space elevator on earth. with active support you can build as high as you want, just dont turn off the power.
People get hung up on the material for the cable of a space elevator. Few actually talk about the next big unsurmountable problem: How to build a climber that can lift tons of weight by mere wheel friction on a cable that might even have different diameter along it's length. Because people forget how real elevators work and that just a hanging a wire into space doesn't actually make one.
When I first was exposed to the concept of space elevators, I was very excited. Years later and I'm much older and more learned, I now see space elevators as disastrously complicated to the point it would be idiotic to build one. The best way to get to space that I know of right now, without using traditional methods, is the "space-hook" approach.
I think viewing a space elevator as impractical is unfortunately understating just how expensive space travel is. And just how much you need to be worried about all the extra energy needed by the rocket equation being dumped into the atmosphere if you've got a robust spacefaring economy. The elevator eleminates a large portion of that and in doing so it means that you might actually begin to approach a society like that which is also sustainable, rather than a brand new thing contributing to the slow destruction of the climate.
this was my thought as well. getting into space is really, really energy costly and difficult. A space elevator or something similar that can vastly reduce this cost and strain is a worthwhile investment without the kind of magical space drives that trivialize interplanetary travel.
@@FunkyDouch3000 It saves a lot of energy expenditure, sure. But the costs of even part of one coming down are literally astronomical, even just in raw kinetic energy/heat input, let alone the consequences.
I really don't have the levels of math required to calculate what they'd be on Earth, but I'm pretty sure it would be many multiples of the Chicxulub impact. And that only wiped out 75+% of all plant and animal species on the planet, most notably including every single non-avian dinosaur.
@@DrBunnyMedicinal This sort of thinking is the exact reason we’re currently stuck on fossil fuels, and will remain shackled to them for the rest of this century.
“Sure nuclear reactors are cleaner, much more efficient, and will allow us to become less dependent on the whims of foreign countries, but what if something bad happens?”
@@DrBunnyMedicinal not sure how you're equating a space elevator crashing into the Earth with the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs. A space elevator cable wouldn't all crash at the same point at the same time, even if it did accumulate the same impact velocity as said asteroid, which I rather doubt. whether the total masses would be farly equiovalent I have no idea.
If a space elevator were to break apart in orbit and shatter into a million pieces the results would indeed be disastrous. However, the technology is still theoretical. we are not at the stage where we can actually build one. there are undoubtebly a myriad of technical challenges to solve in order for us to actually construct one, security and safety issues being one major area of concern. there are probably good inventions and ideas yet to be made and implemented that significantly reduce both risk of damage and the severity of damage if it does occur.
If we are to operate in space to a large degree, an easy, reliable, and long term stable way of getting things on and off world is paramount.
It's too early to discard the idea of a space elevator because of the wildest of hypothetical disaster scenarios.
@@FrozenPhoenix15 Risk assessment has nothing to do with why we are still mostly reliant on fossil fuels. That has far more to do with the ongoing concentration of ever wore wealth into ever fewer hands, the rent-seeking habits of both those already at, and those that aspire to join, those lofty heights.
Greed, control and corruption are the primary causes, not risk assessment. And speaking for myself, I'd vastly prefer an engineer that spends a great deal of time considering the wort possible outcomes and does their best to limit them in their plans than one that considers and acts purely on the positive possibilities and benefits.
Indeed, they are built into our very society: Every regulation is written in blood.
I remember being in awe the first time I read Halo: Contact Harvest when the orbital station Tiara was destroyed and the seven elevator cables that connected to it were described as wrapping around the planet. It gave a better idea of just how long those cables were.
Oh geez, I just googled the height of the New Mombasa Orbital Elevator from Halo and it's listed height is 70,000 kms. Cool, always did like the design of it. It was such a prominent piece in Halo 2 and ODST. I remember that when you dropped at the start of ODST, you can see the tether stretched probably past where you were dropped and it followed you all the way down.
Active support structures, like orbital rings discussed by Isaac Arthur on the SFIA channel, are probably more practical since they can be made far closer to Earth.
3:45
What series/movie is this cool asteroid cluster from? It’s really interesting and I’d like to check it out more.
I became a fan of space elevators back when I first read Charles Sheffield's book, Web Between the Worlds. at about the same time Arthur c Clark had written his own book , Fountains of Paradise which also used a space elevator, although the two authors went about radically different ways in which the space elevators in their stories were built.
The method in Sheffield's story was to build the entire space elevator cable out in space and then fly the bottom anchor point down to an enormous hole dug on the earths equator juat as explosive charges were detonated that sealed the hole and anchored the cable.
In 1986 i got to meet Sheffiled when a TV show about science fiction becoming fact was broadcast from my college campus. Arthur C Clarke spoke live via during the show via a satellite link and people were able to send in questions on a very early form of the internet.
Orbits around the moon tend to be unstable due to the moon having an inconsistent density (from what I remember). Also the moon is tidally locked with the earth. So for our moon at least the counterweight would have to be out past one of the lagrange points like L1 or L2. I think that might actually be worse than building a geostationary elevator for Earth in terms of length.
In Starship Trooper The Moon Has An Orbital Ring And because Of The Points You Made About being Easier To Build It In Lower Gravity They Probably Have Several Space Elevators Linked To That Ring.
I now want to see how Ace Combat 7’s elevator. There is a wind break which splits into 3 cables. I mean there are astroid fragments orbiting earth which would probably require a laser that Ace Combat likes to use in order to prevent debris strikes.
Orbital rings are a good solution, and doable with existing tech, albeit hideously expensive. It would also have massive economic benefits as a planetary transit system, and space solar power supply
I'm a huge fan of 'hard' sci-fi and always love seeing realistic depictions of future societies. I actually included a space elevator as the site of the exposition of a sci-fi story I'm writing. For the particular colony world and the settings general technological capabilities, an orbital space-port in the form of a space elevator fit perfectly. Space elevators have the nice possibility for expansion and to be integrated into an Orbital Ring (please see the newest Stellaris DLC for an example of one of them). For my story, the colony world is only at it's first billion in population, so a space elevator forking off in three directions serves it's needs for now but with the option for integration into a full ring network. The additional surface area and versatility of an orbital ring is sorta the end-goal for orbital infrastructure (assuming you don't just shell the planet off and add a Birch world onion layer).
Practicality of any space elevator really depends on where it is. For Earth, a space elevator is on the edge of plausibility but would probably still be a valuable investment. Also Earth has very few cities along the equator (comparatively) so severing a cable would be less of a problem. Counter measures like failsafe bombs placed along the cable that detonate it into smaller pieces are also probably assumed into the design. The Moon and Mars would both be great places for one. Mars especially stands out as a candidate since we'll be sending ships to Mars orbit first before they ever get to the ground. It's far easier to develop an orbital infrastructure when you're already in space rather than having to claw up the gravity well like we do on Earth. Mars also has Phobos as a pretty decent place to potentially build one from, assuming we tweak it's orbit we could get the moon in the right place. Oh, as for an example of a Martian space elevator, Call of Duty 'Infinite' actually showed one in fairly accurate detail. As shitty as that game was, the details were often nice.
A really trippy thing you could do with a space elevator and an orbital ring is use them to connect the Earth and moon. A full orbital ring around the Earth and one around the moon could be connected by a tether between them, on a giant rail system along both orbital rings. You could then ride a lift from the surface of Earth, transfer from the ring onto the cis-lunar cable when it passes by and then take that all the way to the lunar ring and down to the moons surface. Technically, you could do this with every planet in the solar system but that'd be in the realm of some Kardashev Type 2 civilization dicking around on a vanity project.
There actually is one Low-Tech Scifi Universe featuring a space elevator. It is German in Origin and is called "Mark Brandis" after its main character. I have no idea if it is available in english, however I'd recommend the 32-Part Audibook Series and/or the books they are based on if you understand german.
Thanks, I'll check it out. The only German book series I'm aware of is Perry Rhodan, which is very much a traditional space opera.
@@davemorgan6013 Perry Rhodan is a very long standing series, it would probably take a lifetime to read every installment of it.
the top part doesnt have to be trying to fly away to give the tension
if you have an orbital ring with a orbital elevator on both sides they will both pull the ring down equally on both sides
this would make it possible to cut the total cable length in half (at least), and cable length needs as much impossible materials as just building a really tall tower, while the ring in space can be made a massive structure to keep itself together and resist the compression
you can then attack solarpanels and docks to the ring instead of having a tiny knob at the end of a rope to try and get your cargo from while the solarpanels can actually provide solar energy in a nonstupid way
the powered ring combined with a more reasonable cable length not stretched to its material limits can then be fitted with shielding, since an orbital elevator falling down is a bad day for the heavily populated centers at its base
with all the silly things 40k does, this they do correctly
I'm 99% sure the thumbnail picture is a banner card from titanfall 2
I read that from a material science point, the Lunar tether is capable now. Tethered to the Lagrange points would allow the Moon resources to be shipped to space quite easily. However the article pointed out these resources are much easier to obtain from asteroids so the economic need for such a tether and hazards associated with building make them redundant.
Starting off with the elevator from Forward Unto Dawn, love to see it.
In my sci-fi series space elevators are frequented with any planet that has major exports/ imports and greater populations towards the larger Human empire itself. They’re a necessity since FTL is,
while common, is actually very expensive and MegaCorps found it more cost effective to supply cargo and passengers towards space stations or ships in orbit.
Gundam 00 started with a realistic depiction of the geo political ramifications of a space elevators, with frequent battles in and around them.
"As I left the Kenya Beanstalk capsule he was right on my heels. He followed me through the door leading to Customs, Health and Immigration. As the door contracted behind him I killed him.
I have never liked riding the Beanstalk. My distaste was full-blown even before the disaster to the Quito Skyhook. A cable that goes up into the sky with nothing to hold it up smells too much of magic. But the only other way to reach Ell-Five takes too long and costs too much; my orders and expense account did not cover it."
From Friday, by Robert Heinlein
was just about to make the L-5 reference, that was a fun book.