Irgendwie war mir nicht klar, dass Oceaniz Deutsch spricht und mich hat das gerade mega überrascht, weil das Englisch so frei von unserem hässlichen Akzent ist :D
For old world monster hunter games, there was a point where I no longer needed a map or use paintballs on monsters because I memorized the the locations where they would be. Even though it was minor, you can track the monsters without paintballs by following where their shadow went when they fly into another area or just following them if they just walk. I've always thought that paintballs and the map were just a guide for beginners and when you play long enough you wouldn't really need them.
Yeah, Oceaniz kinda describes the old system as all or nothing but just like you said, with enough experience a player can transition to using some or none of the tracking mechanics and solely rely on game knowledge to locate monsters.
I believe the original idea of Monster Hunter is to experience bounty hunters instead of hunting hunters. That’s why they have those prices upon monsters, danger rankings, guild and titles. The capturing is like those “dead or alive” situations.
You have it entirely correct. There is a reason why you're a fully lisensed and professional hunter registered to a global organisation. It's even stated the reason you pay for the bounties first is to pay for the guilds resources spent on the mission.
Actually many hunters worked like that too, there was a time where even the goverment payed well to anyone who brought a wolf´s pelt or snakes bodies to be sure their populations are -decimate- controled.
Designing a tracking system for newer MH games is tough. I like the way it's done in the older games, where if you repeatedly hunt a monster, you can memorize areas where it's typically found, becoming more efficient at locating the monster over time. This way the game rewards experience and game knowledge. And also, the maps are small enough, so that you can go through each area fairly quickly. Obviously, this won't work in large and seamless maps of modern MH games. And imma be real, learning monster's habitat through flavour text sounds vague, unintuitive, and would require a lot or menu navigation and reading uninteresting descriptions. The only way out I can see is doing the scoutflies thing all over, but making it less intrusive. Maybe make palamutes sniff out tracks and follow the monster? And after you've found it once, have it be permanently displayed on the map?
I remember in my first game I couldn't find the Great Jagras for like 5 minutes after it showed up even with the scoutflies, and the pussy I was just gave up and logged out. I was really green back then I didn't even know MH only that World looked really overly complex in game mechanics and the monsters looked weird but very detailed.
I actually did that myself all throughout World, since the monsters DO consistently only visit a few areas based on their type. For example, Rathian typically only wanders around the forested section of the Wildspire Waste or around their outskirts. But Pink Rathian will venture down into the southern portion of the desert near the default starting camp. Barroth tends to pace in a circle around the center of the map, going between the muddy water areas and the ant mounds he eats at. Diablos will rarely leave their own den except to eat cacti. There are some exception cases, but they actually do make sense. For example, Rathalos can visit the entire southern and eastern parts of the Ancient Forest, along with nearly every canopy area. But that's because he's the king of the forest; he's constantly asserting his dominance over the territory with open skies, free to do as he wants. Comparatively, Anjanath typically sticks to the inner jungle and only ventures out to feed on Aptonoth because he's not the apex; going into a big enough clearing risks a Rathalos attacking him. I love the integration with genuine ecology to the old system of "just memorize it". Because to me, in the older games, a monster "spawns" in an area, but in World, it "lives" in that area.
I really like your idea of the palamute essentially replacing scoutflies. It’s a more relatable analogue to real world blood hounds while also solving the problem of the scoutflies being visually intrusive. Plus you don’t HAVE to take palamutes on quests so you could just not use it if you don’t want to.
I actually remembered it exactly in mhw like how it was in older games, everything still there in MHW - there are areas that monster will likely show up, but now a bit harder to remember with more immersive, more complicated locations with vertical height/depth tho
Got to agree. Reading is boring for most. I think this guy, briliant as he is, is biased since he's a huge speculative zoology nerd that eats these stuff. (No offense). I want to see baits used more. I don't want my reward for doing all that tracking just be finding the monster. Maybe there's some unique aspect to the specific monster that i hunt that can be exploited. I want to see players setting up the hunting field ambushing monsters. I want to see player's plan backfire horrendously, the beast smarter than them and became the hunter.
I dunnoe, but the other way I could see this is like remove the whole "quest system" and developing their investigation mechanic in world into more extended detail... Where the main downtime play is to really track,gather,encounter and attempt to fight (But they will flee easily) and report your findings and then these quest will be generated and you slowly unlock the monsters as you progress and also "Trade" your findings like "HEy guys, I discovered the azure rathalaos, you guys want to come on this quest" so the monster you discover. so you may get very lucky to find the snort of an elder dragon to start the process to locate and maybe "research" the snort, send it out to arbiary research and it generates quest for it. like you can also make it that the monster that flee, will appear again sometime down the road and it still retain the damage you dealt and the broken parts it was inflicted...... like some of the elderdragon runs in the past game where they escape but when u start the quest again, they retain their damage and their current health pool you had from the previous encounter. Of course this mechanic would mainly remove the "Storyline" aspect of the game/no keyquest to hunt to progress up the star level. I dunnoe, its just base on my experience back in world when they release the demo, and there was this "rumor" saying that nargacuga could spawn sometimes in the demo hunt and you can get to chance encounter it and you get stupid excited by that thought u may get to encounter it out of the blue, that kind of aspect of the game where you progress by discovering the monsters, instead of doing the structure/story driven quest, but that also removes other aspects of whats been establish so yeah lol.
Man imagine a MH game based soley on the investigation mechanic. That could be similar to pokemon legends arceus in an aesthetic type of way. The first generation of monster hunters with much different weapons. I could see that working but it could backfire making a grindy game even more grindyer. Plus more obscure quests being hidden behind stricter investigation milestones. But perhaps that could be a good thing. Monster hunter needs more secret and dangerous monsters because one of my only gripes and felt missed oppritunities for sunbreak as not making gaismagorn a black dragon.
@@Moonblade64 and that would make those "elder dragon" endgame armors pretty much really "Rare armors" that only the commited could get, but yeah, any grinding game will destroy any mechanic thats meant for "immerson" if repeated actions are needed. so its a balance thats almost impossible to achieve properly... triangle stats.
@@NCHProductions it could work. Heck it could even make the black dragons seem even more like a threat. Imagine if we just WANDERED imto Schrade or discovered an underwater black dragon based off of chutulu
I think the answer is a lot simpler and has been right under our noses the whole time. Tracking animals. We already have the Cohoot but seeing as we only see it at the beginning of the quest and at the Hub, it is barely a "buddy". I'm talking about the Palico and Palamute, they follow us since we're the main Hunter obviously, but they are the ones using their animal senses to find tracks, scents, etc. to assist us. Unlike the Scoutflies that auto-lock, we have to guide our buddies to find clues for us. The more you level up your buddies, the better they are at tracking monsters and relaying that info back to us. This info can even be logged into the Hunter's Notes so even if you go on a Hunt without buddies, you still have all the tracking info needed to find the monster justifiably without them. That way it doesn't overload the player with lots of menus and particle effects and glowing map icons, it doesn't overly slow the beginning of new hunts too much (but new areas encourage exploration anyways), and by bonding with your buddies more you are becoming a better hunter yourself adding on to the theme of symbiosis of nature.
I myself was thinking that, and there might be more visuals depending on what you are hunting and what is also in the area, especially with double or triple monsters in one quest. Say Deviljho teeth in the ground in the same spot where, there is normally a rocky path, but the bigger rocks are scattered and broken, signaling its rival Rajang is about someplace and that monster was *not* listed in the quest so there is your surprise visitor while you hunt. Claw marks for something scaling walls, and the difference is smaller marks for Tobi Kadachi, a lot bigger and longer for Nargacuga, burnt ground for a Rathalos fireball or slide marks depending on the monster. Or you're running around and you suddenly start slipping on some flattened, wet looking grass. Hey, Mizutsune's been here! Or bubbles floating down river where you see a waterfall where Mizu might be hanging out a level above you.
You could even tie the Cohoot into tracking in which it only deploys to find the monster _after_ you have found it and it flees to a new area. The Cohoot leads you to where the monster went, but does not keep tabs on other monsters in the area so you have to be vigilant and not say run into Goss Harag chasing down Khezu.
Yeah cahoots are mega OP in their observations. I would even make it so that the player auto sends the cahoot out at the start of a quest but it returns after sometime. And essentially the player can send the cahoot out at any point during the quest to search for and display one of whatever monster is expected to be in the area (usually the target monster of the quest). BUT there's a chance the cahoot could be frightened due to the target seeing it or another threatening monster en route, causing it to return to you with no data. Every time the cahoot returns, the icon of the targeted monster fades away. Im not a game dev and there are obvious flaws with my proposed system but still :p
I thought world's system was pretty good was rather engaging in the early game. Then later on you only had to grab a few tracks for them to pop up. Then you just eventually ignored the system entirely cause you had memorized there possible spawn locations.
In the different playthroughs of World that me and my friend would do, we would basically always be at research level one because we would just book it straight to the monster instead of waiting for the scoutflies to find it for us.
Funny enough when I started a new hunter, I turned off my map and other things plus the flys too, ngl following the tracks and other clues actually seems fun especially solo
I think my main problem with this video is saying the downtown in oldergame is just running around . The stinginess of and harder access to ressource in older game meant you either had to make more individual ressource runs or actually use the downtime/research phase to farm ressources until you find the monster , and with your knowledge of the map increasing you can plan even better routes . Its only with the portable series bringing farm and expending on them over and over that this aspect really eroded away and made gen 4 mostly running around . I think that ressource management and gathering is something that should be taken into account when designing a tracking system too.
yeah, when i played world, just starting out, my main method of resource gathering was...resource gathering. i had to make space in my inventory to collect all the herbs and nuts and bugs and whatnot during the hunt to use later on. as the farm expanded, though, that became less important, and eventually i completely erased all empty space from my inventory loadouts (except maybe one or two slots for special afflictions like poison or environmental hazards like cold drinks).
I never minded the Scoutflies but I definitely get people finding them to be an excess of visual clutter. But I also don't find their concept to be 'anti-hunting' since they act as a living GPS, since, conceptually they work like a bloodhound. Get the scent of the target and they track it; so unless you want to argue real hunters using animals for tracking through scent isn't real hunting I dunno how much that argument holds up. That said the idea of refining the system that Scoutflies work on to be more involved like you conceptualized, first time entering a hunt you have some general hint of where to start based on ecology, find some tracks that imply something else about the animal's habits as a springboard for where to search next, and the more clues you find the more it narrows down that heat map you mentioned, that could work wonderfully. And as you said, the endgame of this and the Scoutflies the system gets almost completely mitigated for the sake of keeping the primary gameplay loop the focus to avoid the tedium, I think that's the best happy medium you could ask for. Get the hunter sim aspects but they fade away for the main gameplay loop thats so addicting by the end to not get bogged down.
I totally agree with this statement, the scoutflies are used as a GPS and after gaining more track from the monster you eventually gain enough evidence to hunt the monster without needing the scoutlifes to much. Nice take :) I also didn't mind them either, if I got confused they helped me get back on track, especially when I'm using my ride to get to them.
Most people often forget, you use scout flies to gather information for the researchers back in the base, that's why it's a track based system because the they don't have a lot information about the place, you're literally exploring a new world and the research and "hunting" is being done by the people back home. The knowledge the guild didn't give you is what the monsters would be doing during your hunt, they would actually go gather food, hunt smaller prey, you can use that knowledge to hunt specific monsters. I believe the reason why you don't have to do anything in rise is because the people in the village have already done the tracking for you and you're just there to kill the thing, the people of the village in Rise is very familiar with the world around them so it's like a monster got into your garden and not hunting in the wilderness like World.
I always loved having little quirks of the monsters to learn about to make hunting them easier. Fishing up a gobul or plesioth in gen 3 with a frog felt massive brained especially because it would bring them to the area you were in. Also love feeding nibelsnarf bombs I really wish there were ways to make bait better, I want to lure things by placing meat or taking out some smaller monsters. With ludroth bringing royal to the area or similar
tbh i only used the bait once or twice on a deviljho way back in mhp3rd, never again. its just way too gimmicky, i wish they improved baits and clever use of items in monsters
Great video as ever. I think your heat map idea is a very nice one, and as good as it can get whilst not creating an entirely new mechanic. If one were to cheat and add one, I think something akin to 'detective mode' from the excellent Batman : Arkham series could be a good way of adding tracking without the scoutflies too. In general I personally would love to see more diegetic information and less non-diegetic information; as well as tracks, things like varied, specific alarm calls and other monster behaviour hinting at where the target may be and letting you find this out for yourself over telling you. I also think this is something the devs have wanted to do for a long time but never had the stomach to commit to it fully. Attempts were made in Tri, and the World book also hints it was originally intended to have a lot more 'hunting'. I think if hunting became a bigger part of things, the 50 min quest could also start with first blood over entering the map. I also think larger maps / an open world would make the tracking more relevant later in the game as monster movements and spawns become less predictable across larger areas. My two cents on it all!
Oh hey, very cool to see you here, I love your ecology vids :) I like your idea! I had thought about suggesting some "Hunter Sense" mechanic in this video too actually, but I did really want to limit myself to existing mechanics - gamedev can have such a knock-on effect (like when capcom said "what if we didnt have loading screens" and accidentally reinvented the franchise lol) so I wanted to stay safe. Either way, very interested to see how MH6 handles this.
I think that mh can pull some ideas from the Evolve video game. In evolve, there were certain creatures in the “predator warning symbiosis” niche like with some monkeys with deer today, and if you got to close to it, it would emit a loud cry that the hunters could track. Also, scavenger birds that the hunters could use would flock over you as you killed and ate more.
Monster hunter should not be looking at sub par games to try and appeal to a minor and annoying part of the game, Tracking the Monsters is such a literal non-part and I'd rather have the game develop actually fun systems than wasting time on redundant systems.
Haven't watch it full but I do remember the painful experience running around on base world because I could not find any track and the flies isn't responding until I reach the correct place.
I think it makes sense the game is called monster Hunter even though it doesn't look like real world hunting and that's because in the monster Hunter world because of the nature of monsters and the weapons humans have available to them do you need to use different strategies to hunt monsters so even though it doesn't look like real world hunting it is hunting in the monster Hunter world.
I want to make a simple suggestion for MHR. Make the Cahoot a timed thing. Like when you start the quest it will not show you any monsters and after a few minutes you'd see a notification mentioning that your cahoot has returned. When you go back to camp or call it to your side, it'll relay the general locations of monsters on the map, but using your heatmap idea. Mix that in with your idea for the heatmap and ecology ideas, I think that would be a pretty good system as well.
You know, "hunting" doesn't only mean the hunter going to the target. It also includes luring the target into specific spots. And Monster Hunter already had something like that. Now, I'm a fifther, so I don't know how they worked in previous games. But there IS bait in World (and Rise), which I never actually figured out how it works, but it's supposed to lure a Monster into. Heck, there is even poisoned bait, yo. You could expand on this by giving the player different methods of reaching their target. You could just casually walk through the entire map in the hopes to stumble upon them. You could improve your odds by reading info on locales and monsters and study their behaviour (or simply learn it through experience). Maybe use some other "tools", such as Scoutflies or Palamutes, that help you find tracks of the Monsters. Or, if you are desperate, lure the monster to a specific place by doing certain things/events. Though, personally, I don't think the Scoutfly as a system itself was broken, just their implementation wasn't all that great. So what I personally would love to see is a Palamute-based tracking system as an updated Scoutfly-System. First of all, in World, many monsters had very specific spawns per map (usually 2, maybe 3), which you could easily learn by experience alone btw. In fact, after 1000h of playing World, I know roughly in which areas every single monster might spawn, so I easily check out these places first. If I don't find the monster there, I usually at least find some tracks on the way, which either leads me to the next track, or the Monster directly. World definitely still encouraged you to learn the behaviour of monsters, but was gentle enough to never require it. And unlike Rise, you could even select which camp you spawn at, further decreasing walking time through knowledge. I KNOW that Radobaan only walks around the upper parts of the Rotten Vale. That Tobi-Kadachi prefers areas with lots of trees. That Barroth prefers areas with water and mud. If you take these things into account, finding the Monster you want to hunt becomes so much easier. Of course, you first need to learn this. And while I personally don't mind the first random exploration through half the map on my first new Monster encounter, I totally do agree that the game should give us more Info on a Monster beforehand, if possible. Most of these monsters ARE known to the Guild, and thus should be very well documented already. I also think that most people don't actually hate the SYSTEM of the Scoutflies, but only their VISUAL presentation of. Think of it: The Scoutflies will navigate you to the nearest track of the selected Monster. From there on, they lead you to more tracks (which generally are in the same area and/or move you towards the target) until it finally reveals the targets location directly. This, in theory, is a pretty good balance between "having to search for the target first", without being too overbearing. But the problem lies in HOW they navigate you. As you have mentioned in your video, their visual presentation is really bad. They take away from the scenery, they do a bad job at communicating which direction they want you to go and their priorities are really annoying as well, like how they completely disappear once a monster engages you. If you instead replace them with something more easy to read that doesn't kill the whole atmosphere, I think it might be much more fun to work with.
The way meat bait works in World (I assume this is what you're referring to) is pretty much the same as it worked in older games. You could lay down a piece of raw meat, or raw meat imbued with poison/paralysis/sleep on the ground, and if a monster was exhausted it would begin to eat the meat. The only two monsters I have ever seen it work on successfully are Tigrex and Deviljho, and it was a huge part of my personal strategy for fighting Deviljho when I was younger (as well as a lot of third gen players). You lay down some tainted meat, and since Deviljho is constantly getting exhausted, it would eat the meat and then fall asleep for an easy sleep-bombing. In Rise, I assume this same system also exists, but in addition you can use the meat bait items from chests (and raw meat I assume) by placing them in the watery areas of the Flooded Forest to summon a school of piranhas that start jumping and biting at it. If you do it near a monster, the monster takes damage while constantly being flinched in place from the bites.
Related note for Rise: while hunting was made irrelevant by the cohoot, general map exploration was incentivized by linking it to a pseudo difficulty slider (extra atk, def, hp, & stam from spiribirds). You can ignore it if you want, target specific buffs like atk using demon petalace and only getting red birds, or do a full route to max your stats. While I'd like more hunting elements too I actually really appreciate the spiribirds.
25:49 this honestly incapsulates my opinion of MH. I prefer the old monster hunter games because they're slower and the majority of the game is during LR/HR/GR and not the "end game" at least for me. Apparently 4U had an end game. I never got there because there was enough nuance and difficulty in the entire rest of the game that I never needed to have the discussion about "whether or not 4U has a good end game" Basically all this is to say, you're right, the hunting mechanic would become superfluous by the end of the game as it was in World. But if the front end of the game was as difficult and as engaging as it used to be in in older titles, it would be a lot more substantial and wouldn't fall into the background so quickly.
I really like the 'heat map' idea. It satisfies that hunting/tracking desire (without scout flies doing the work for you), while simultaneously not making it drag into the higher ranks. It makes sense when you're low rank that you'd need clues or hints on where to find a monster you never hunted before, but as you hunt them more, they'd be easier to find. It wouldn't make HR quests a random search for the monster, but it wouldn't exactly give you an icon on the map either like in Rise. And even if you the player don't always remember 100% which area the monster is in, your hunter would, so the shrinking/pin pointing of the heat map makes sense. I know people and speed runners would complain that a quest takes longer than 3 minutes now, but I think it would add some immersion & flavor. Also a reason to actually read the descriptions. I tend to read a couple here and there when I remember, but if it added something besides just flavor and actual gameplay tips, I would definitely read them more often.
@@oldman6916 Strawmen are annoyingly effective in debates, you should realize by now no one online is trying to have an honest conversation, just jerking each other off on how well they can argue and piss off anyone else
Here is my little idea for an improvement to the Scoutflies system. If any of you had already commented something similar, please let me know. Anyways, hope you like it: In MHW the Scoutflies, apart from floating around the ground, were also displayed in the form of a small line coming out of the lamp on the player's belt. Once I've been playing for a while, I noticed that this line also rotates in the direction that the larger group of Scoutflies takes you, which led me to think that if the System were more discreet, it would be a great improvement. If the Scoutflies, instead of being this train of particles that you follow, worked more like a compass visible only on the player model (as it already does in World) and subtly separated to reveal the evidence (Which it also does in World ), the whole Scoutflies system would be much nicer, as it would maintain its usefulness throughout the majority of the game, without being visually distracting. Basically, remove the bigger and annoying trail, keep the rest of the Scoutflies functions, highlighting trails and objects, and maybe flying around the monster when you find it, to keep the scenting element as part of the game. This wouldn't solve the whole hunting problem, but at least it would have come as more visually appealing to the player, while keeping it's functionality, Wich I actually really like.
I think a system of memorizing monster knowledge so you can learn and find the monsters more and more easily is just how the game works to begin with. Building in a players memorization of what zones a monster spawns in while giving SOME kind of helpful indicator was what old heads wanted all along until World came out and they had to agree too much change is bad. This is a great video. You're definitely onto something here.
Good stuff. I'd just add that the photography feature from Iceborne could be a great optional method to more quickly accumulate research and fulfill the "observation" aspect of hunting.
I will say this in Rise's defense though; the setting is one of the best for the idea of hunting though if nothing else, at least base Rise in my opinion. As many have pointed out Rise has a very strong Japanese theme particularly a very strong _ninja theme._ Kamura is a rural, isolated village which is why it was vulnerable to the Rampage cycle in the past. Now they aren't isolationist, they readily welcome people into their village but they are definitely out of the way and some distance from the next nearest settlements by land. There are a couple of traders that bring knick knacks and goods from afar but there does not seem major trade between it and other locations. Kamura is completely self-sufficient which means the monster parts you acquire and the dangerous monsters you put down are more important than ever for providing for and protecting the village. Now what does this have to do with ninjas? Despite our western association with ninjas being master assassins, that couldn't be further from the truth. Ninjas were incredibly self-sufficient and their villages were often rural and not very wealthy, so they needed to utilize everything they could. Many famous ninja tools and weapons were repurposed from other tools and their equipment was often multi-purpose in order to make it as useful as possible; sai were fashioned after gardening implements, ninja swords are small not just so they can be easier to conceal but because metal is a precious resource, their grappling hooks were made from hand scythes and so on and so on. Ninjas were incredibly resourceful and in keeping in that tradition utilizing the resources provided by a hunt in game is totally in line with their way of life. Even the dango (hyorogan version of feasts, providing all the calories without the excess smell to tip off monsters) and the newly introduced palamutes (if any animal could be associated with ninjas its dogs) tie into this ninja theme. Of course though this is all lore and speculation, not game play.
I’m definitely one of the guys looking for the immersive Monster Hunter experience so I feel a good tracking system would do wonders for any future MH games. I love your idea of tracks revealing an area the monster visited that gets smaller the more you gather rather than revealing the monsters exact position. Means you actually have to spot the monster first. Though I think I’d like it if paintballs were part of that package. Track the monster, throw the paintball, done. Tracking over(least until the effect wears off). Time to fight. But the monster position can still be lost which leaves the potential for surprises as you try to find it again. I also really want to see monsters set traps for the hunter and I can see that working really well with your idea of using heat maps. Picture it like this: You’re on a hunt for a nerscylla. You’ve spent some time collecting tracks and narrowed down its location to one small spot on the map. You go there and find tracks so fresh the monster must have just been there but no monster in sight. You stand there a moment puzzled. Then it dawns on you. You look up but it’s too late. You’ve already been snared in the web of the nerscylla that was waiting just above you. The tables turn and the hunter becomes the hunted. The thought of having that potential for tension even before seeing the monster just makes me giddy. Plus imagine tricking your friends into walking into it. So much fun to be had.
23:35 For people not reading there could be the possibility to have a companion such as the handler who just tells you at first that she read some notes that the khezu was last seen somewhere in the north or in caves or whatever. By the time you reach monster nobody saw before, you´ll be experienced enough to know the the heatmap stuff
This is an absolutely wonderful idea, and Id love to see something like this implemented. Ya, it would kinda punish people do didn't do any of the reading, but there are ways to make people more aware that doing such is important. Maybe for the first quest or 2, have a hunter join the player so "show them the ropes" (as rise has shown npc hunters is now a thing). Have them generally guide the player, saying "we need to find tracks to get started. The quest description mentioned that the Khezu was seen near a cave, so lets start there." or something similar. That way the player is aware they have to start with finding tracks, and are explicitly told that the quest descriptions give you a hint on where to start. It also adds an NPC to help you fight for the first large monster quest, to help ease people into the combat for people new to MH. Then as you keep hunting and such, you find out WHY the monsters were "last seen aroung X or Y". That would be a neat thing for people to figure out, and those who don't want to engage with the reading part of it can just remember "Khezu seen near cave", but this way it rewards the players that wanted to learn more and prepare. And it all disintegrates in the end game anyway, so it wouldn't add too much by the end.
Honestly, to work a realistic hunting system into the game you would have to completely overhaul the entire premise of the series. You'd basically NEED a fully (and I mean *FULLY* ) open world map without broders or load screens, even going as far as to make the villages part of the map as well. Given how big maps are getting these days I doubt that would be much of a problem... The real problem would be the monsters themselves. You would need a system that, at the very start of the game, generates and keeps track of dozens (if not hundreds) of individual monsters across the entire map. They would also need a staggering amount of behaviors to give each individual creature a routine of sorts in it's environment. Interspecies interactions, environmental interactions, seasonal interactions, day/night cycle behaviors, passive/active/resting behaviors, hunting/foraging/feeding pattern, and courting/mating/nesting behaviors to name JUST A FEW! At this point you are literally creating an ecological simulation that will run continuously in the background wether the player interacts with it or not. The world will have to be very much alive with its own ebb and flow independent of the player/s. That Rath you saw earlier in the game is still out there; flying around, picking off Aptanoths, fighting off other wyverns, tending to it's nest, going to the river to dring, ect in the background. You may never see that individual again, but the effects of it's behavior will be FELT at the very least. Maybe you CANT complete the quest you just got because there simply aren't enough prey creatures around since that Rath moved in. Maybe it already scared away the other creature you have been tasked to hunt. Maybe it displaced another monster and now that one's causing problems and you'll have to choose which on to hunt to restore balance. Etc, etc... There would also have to be several villages scattered across the map, each one with its own goals and problems. Maybe their fields or livestock are being raided by monsters. Maybe the dam they built disrupted the local environment enough to cause certain creatures to disperse and others to move in. These villages, and by extension the various villagers and agencies within them, will have to have their own motivations and opportunities for growth that will in turn generate quests. For example; say you got a quest early on to help clear out a section of forest of it's hostile creatures so that the village can plant a new field. Later you return to see that field up and running, but you get word from another nearby village that the monsters you displaced are causing problems for them. After dealing with that you receive an urgent quest from the first village! A huge monster has moved on to the area because the other creatures keeping it out are now gone thanks to you. You deal with it, only to find out that it was only there due to another villages overhunting of it's preferred prey. And so on and so on. Basically, EVERY SINGLE ACTION you take as the player, as well as the actions of the NPCs, will generate conflict withing the environment which will in turn generate quests for you to complete.... And finally we come to the players. Throughout your quests and unquested explorations, you'll gain experience and progress in researching the various creatures of the world. Documented behaviors, feeding grounds, pack territories, species ranges, breeding seasons, life cycles, strength and vulnerabilities, and more. Eventually it will get to the point that say, on one of your random explanations, you notice a large herd of migrating Aptonoths and are experienced enough to know that they are probably being followed by a Rath or other large wyverns. You haven't actually seen them yet, but you know their habits enough to know that they are probably nearby. You haven't received a quest to hunt them down, but you know you probably will if the migration passes to close to a village. You can choose to do nothing and hope for the best, preemptively hunt the following predators, attempt to alter the migration path to lead the herbivores and their predators away, thin the herd to make it less appealing to the predators, ect, all without ever receiving a quest and based solely on your experience thus far... As for hunting, Id say a healthy mix of tracking, testing, and research would suffice. But while you are tracking down that problem monster and are hot on its trail, maybe YOU are being tracked by a different monster that cought your scent of came across YOUR tracks. Maybe while you are busy creeping through the bushes, trying to stay down wind and out of sight of your target as to not tip it off before you are ready, there is another creature doing the same to you. Maybe before you have the chance to spring your ambush, your stalker springs there's and now you have a completely different fight on your hands, one you might not be prepared for... Maybe you fight a monster only to accidentally let it escape, only to be encountered later as a variant that uses new tactics based on how you fought it last. Maybe that variant developed a crippling fear of people and you never see it again as it avoid all control with people, but you feel it's effects as it displaces others in an attempt to stay clear of population centers. Maybe that variant instead developes a taste for human flesh and goes out of its way to hunt you or other NPCs down, causing even more problems and generating even more quests.... Honestly, at this point what I'm describing sounds nothing like a MH game and may well be better served as its own individual ip. Monster Hunter? Meh, more like Fantasy Ecology Balancer. There probably wouldn't (couldn't?) be much of a main storyline either, just the established villages vying for power, resources, and territory against each other and the monsters around them. I system where you choose which villages to help and which ones to harm would be fun, and you could add in a mechanic where if you choose not to help them the village will slowly die off sounds fun. Maybe I'm their desperation a village "delves too deep" and disturbs an elder dragon and by the time you get there to help the village is just gone, reduced to ash and timbers and now you have to hunt this incredibly powerful monster down without knowing anything about it before it can cause even more deviation... Maybe the emergence of the elder is tied to a set time limit and after say, 50 hours of game play, it will wake up regardless and begin laying waste to everything you've worked so hard to achieve. Maybe you randomly stumble across it early on and manage to survive, causing the rest of the game to be about you preparing for it's arrival. Maybe your research leads you to another sleeping elder and you manage to orchestrate a turf war between them and either drive off or defeat the winner.... Maybe, just maybe, the game never truly ends. Villages and monsters coming and going constantly as the seasons change and disasters occur, all the while the player desperately tries to keep the balance intact as civilizations push out into the frontier and the frontier pushes back.... Idk, maybe it's too much, but it sounds fun to me at least....
5:36 Or, you know, you can look at monster shadow when he flying away, and judging by direction in which shadow moved you could actually guess what is monster’s destination is. But you only can do so after you have experienced hunting that monster enough times and also after you got accustomed to schematic map itself, so you basically need to watch and learn what are the place monster like to flee to most often + what are the places he actually able go to considering direction of his shadow while he was flying away. I’d say all that is great play on actual ”hunting elements" even though you just can mark monster with paintball and it will be basically gps-tracked for you, lol
Brilliant video. Took all the words right out of my mouth, from the archaic paintballs being outdated to the overbearing scoutflies being a hindrance to World in multiple ways. And your proposed systems are almost exactly the solutions I've thought of.
I dont know, i mean yes, tracking the monster in the maps and learning where they would appear is an essential part of hunting but I think its more intrinsic for a player to learn a monster through fighting, learning the moveset and elemental weaknesses. Prepping potions, antidote, picking up endemics and other things for the hunt is more "hunting" to me because the essence of a hunt in my opinion is the preparation
To be fair to Rise, I think searching for endemic life to use in hunts could be considered similar to tracking the monsters, at least in the sense that you can reliably learn their locations and search for specific ones by memory to aid in a particular strategy you might want to use. This can be skipped by using the Palamute's SNIFF IT OUT command, though.
I started playing Rise. And I disagree with the statement that going head straight at the monster is the way. Me and my team preffer to run around the map for first 10 minutes gathering buffs, items and other items that can be found on tge map. Just then when we feel like we got enough items we rush at the monster ad often arempting to stay more then one and by knowing where the monsters are we can predict when monster can be lured to each other to engage the territorial fight
You can do it, but you can also go straight to the monster and finish the quest rather easily without thoses extra buffs, in Rise at least, didn't get to Sunbreak yet to see how difficult it is
My general guess about the idea behind the name is that the name hunter was chosen because it helps to define the monsters. Monster Slayer or Monster Fighter could be about actively malevolent creatures, such as in "Goblin Slayer" or about Warbeasts employed by some evil overlord and so on. The name Hunter implies that you are going after a creature that simply acts according to its nature with no other goals than to stay alive and procreate. That the term monster denotes creatures of great strength and ability, but not sapience. Granted, the challenge still lies in defeating the monsters, rather than tracking them down, but the idea is: You aren't meeting them on the battlefield. You stalk them in their natural environment and kill them to obtain ressources or stop them from affecting their environment in a way you disagree with.
MHW is kinda done like that, but didn't make it by having each monster acting exactly the same every single time, and the player might as well just skip the hunting part by memorizing the whole script. There definitely should be some procedural AI to guide monster behavior but sadly we haven't seen any yet
I feel like what this is ignoring is the other half of hunting, yes the mechanics around locating the monster are rather weak but in the preparations for when you do find the monster? there's plenty of depth there in old and new MH which has really only advanced as the series has progressed. From gathering herbs and mushrooms to fishing to make stronger bombs, there is so much prep you need to do before you even step foot into a large monster hunt. Rise bringing it one step further with all the endemic life and spiribirds, where every hunt is asking you to do further prep before facing down the monster. Getting just the right item load-out for each monster is a pretty decent chunk of the game which I would argue is fitting of the hunting name
It's actually the opposite, with additions like the farm and even restocking there's not incentive to gather materials or planning, you just make a general item loadout with small modifications for different monster and that's all. Like, why would I need to find Honey if I can get one or two stacks just in the farm?
@BazookaTiger37 Yeah, the farm is always something I zone in on in the beginning. Makes things alot easier. Hearing people talk about having to go out of there way so much for gathering makes me wonder if people just ignored the farm. :p
For tracking… at the beginning of the quest you could have someone like the handler say “we’ve located the monster near zone 8 and 9” or something like that, and it gets more specific the more research you get. Eventually you’ll just get icons.
I honestly think your heat map idea is a pretty good idea, but i do agree that there are flaws that could occur too. But then again that’s the same with every idea no matter how good it sounds. Then again I also think alongside this there could be an encounter system for every time you engage with a monster you gain data on said monster and understand its behavior, abilities, elemental proficiencies etc. and this accumulates towards the archive page on said monster and letting the hunter understand the best ways to fight and slay the monster. And collecting enough materials from said monster allows one to understand what elements it’s weak to and weak points to target that improve with each encounter. And by maxing out the research and observation data on each monster, the hunter gains tokens of some sort to apply to armor’s or weapons the hunter wants to make that grant an all around boost when fighting a certain species of monster like fanged beast or that uses the same element as the one you got the token from(but it’s efficacy could lessen if it’s a different species of monster). And to top it all off the hunter could develop a reason to hunt small monsters besides meat and minor items. As from leveling the hunter’s understanding of the monster and it’s behavior; the hunter could understand what it preys on such as rathian’s hunting older aptonoth’s. Thus by collecting enough materials on said monster and other items like that skunk endemic life, the hunter could craft spraying scents to attract the monster and make it come to a certain area. Though this only works when the research level of the monster is at a intermediate level.
I have an idea that sorta combines the track system and paintball system. A monster leaves tracks as it's moving (out of combat), and interacting with these tracks points you in the direction it is moving. You can then follow these tracks to whatever area the monster moved to (for flying monsters it would leave a special track that points in the direction it flew, or something) If you use a paintball, it leaves a special track that shows you where it is when you interact with it (either temporarily, but it leaves multiple as it runs so if you need you can follow another, or until the next time it runs away)
I think an extra thing that could be added to the monster info screen is the maps where it can be fought, and highlight areas where it has been seen in, so if you first find it in area 8, then it moves to area 7. After the hunt those areas will be noted as possible locations for subsequent hunts.
I've thought about it before too and honestly I think this is probably the best idea for tracking a monster I've heard. I think for the first time you fight a monster it should tell you where they like to hang out or have been sighted in the quest description instead of having flavor text for the description (because I'll be honest I never read those anyway) and have tracks there to then show a heatmap that touches around 3-4 different zones at the beginning, but after the first quest it doesn't tell you where to look anymore since you now have a heatmap. I think after about 5-6 quests fighting the same monster you should have the heatmap be the size of a zone so it's a good pinpoint but not an exact icon right where they are. I also think you maaaayyyyybe could color the heatmaps different either based on the monster(s) you need to kill for the quest or colors based on the type of monster it is. Having 3 heatmaps but not knowing which monster is which would also be rough if they didn't actually spawn in regions where they would originally.
The first 10 seconds already killed me. "Ecocide" combined with the Kamura theme (or hunt complete theme?) really got me cracking. Anyways, and Oceaniz vid about MH; this is going to be a treat. Lemme get my mug of coffee and settle in for a good time.
I really like your heat map idea. I'd actually like to expand on it a little. For one, I think it would be cool if Palamutes interacted with this system a little bit. Removing the green glow of the scoutflies would make tracks much harder to spot, but maybe the Palamute can point It's nose at nearby tracks to show you them. It would be super cute and flavorful, and it can also serve as an explanation for the heat maps. Your dog gets the scent, so it can narrow down the location of the monster and its tracks. I'd also suggest a specific way for the heat maps to work. When you grab a track, a question mark icon with a number next to it will appear on your UI. Finding a set of tracks for a separate monster brings up another question mark icon. The number next to it is the order in which you discovered the set of tracks. The ? icons can be targeted by clicking in the joystick, just like targeting a monster in all the other games. The selected target will have it's heat map shown. The icons will remain as question marks until you sight the monster. This means that tracks that you find won't ever tell you what monster they belong to, just the name of the track itself, like "old footprints," "old gashes," etc. This makes the player actually pay attention to the tracks they find. Say you're hunting a Rathalos. You find some footprints and the heat map leads you to more tracks. Then however, you find some "old scales" that are green instead of red. Any hunter that is paying attention will realize that the track set is that of a Rathian, and will deselect the ? icon and look for a different set. This rewards the player for the level of monster knowledge that they have. For another example, both Diablos and Glavenus leave "old gashes" on walls. But most will be able to tell that a single slice means a Glavenus, and two slices means a Diablos. Particularly knowledgeable hunters might even be able to tell exactly what they are tracking just based on the shape of the footprint. Their reward naturally comes from the satisfaction of fast and efficient tracking, based entirely on their own knowledge. It would be both immersive and rewarding. I think near endgame this system can still remain engaging as well. If you make it so that near endgame, all heat maps are shown at the start even before you gather a single track, you can remove some of the tedium. You still keep the icons as question marks until you spot the monster. Having access to the heatmaps however will allow skilled hunters to determine where to look before even leaving the camp. Since the heatmaps show general locations of where tracks are found, if you know where specific monsters generally go, you can narrow down which heatmap likely belongs to the monster you want based on the locations it's showing. For example, if you know that your monster never goes to area 6, you can rule out the heatmaps that shows that there are tracks there. This would hopefully be consistently fun and satisfying for hunters that really get to know their monsters and where they travel, and even for people that aren't as good at that type of map logic, starting with the heatmaps is still an advantage since they can immediately know where to start looking.
im really impressed by your idea and handling of its pros and cons like we all do, you are confident that your idea is a good one but also talk about its main flaw and problems respect from me for that and thumbs up for that
So actually in the 2nd gen there was something similar to what you said but it wasn’t for all monsters. The magazine “Hunting life” gave clues to what monster like tigrex kut ku and such did and were they liked to stay overall. The magazine said khezu lives in the caves of snowy mountains and swamp region. And khezu spawn is literally area 3 of artic ridge. But they gave up on this in later gens
After about 1000h in MH World i recently started a new save file with a friend of mine, and i got so used to having all the research levels on max that when i didnt 100% know the spawn location of a monster i usually knew a few zones they travel in and ran to those in search of it. But most of the time over the many hunts on my main file i got a feel and knowledge of where the monster usually is, i agree it isn't really hunting in the sense of tracking a monster down or gaining knowledge through text but personally i feel like i as a player got better at tracking them down intuitivly through the many times i've hunted them and saw their different locations they flee to and so on, especially for nest and sleeping positions that always stay static.
i think theHunter mechanics would be the best, find footprints, figure out if they are older or newer, if they are older they give you the general areas where they probably went to (theHunter does this by showing a circle around the player on the map), and the newer footprints would give you the direction they went to (the next area basically), which would make it much more simple, as it wouldn't be as intrusive, and would lead straight to the point. Also, make the user wear headphones and utilise sound: monster roars should be heard across the map, and you should be able to judge where they are based on that. They should roar: 50-90 seconds after the quest starts, in cases of turf wars, when they hunt small monsters, and randomly once in a while. This would make the player keep track of what roars each monster makes. Make call devices to call the monster to go towards you if they are close enough in proximity. Not right to you but make them go to your direction. They should be craftable, and made from the materials you get from the monster, or heck make them upgradable, or just slightly difficult to get. The call devices lose their effectiveness after you start battling it, so you couldn't call it back when it leaves, you need to chase it. This gives some kind of progression to it, but would require huge maps of World, as Rise maps would be too small imo.
The monster of MH have evolved fighting capabilities, rather than kill prey/survive predators feats. Therefore having to fight for the most part makes sense to me
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I think a blend of all of these things might be best. The questboard can list map area numbers that the target monster is seen to frequent. (which will be the heatmap areas) At the beginning of the hunt you send out a bird to scout for the monster. In the meantime, you start your own journey, a rookie can use knowledge gathered from Info books on Monsters and the Region to find it, along with the suggested heatmaps and monster tracks that your palico/palamute can sniff and point out (to make glow visibly) to narrow it's location down, instead of having scoutflies clutter your vision (Can we train bugs that small, that well? Maybe it exists, I don’t know). Or, if you were unable to find it, until the bird comes back to update you on it’s scouting (ping your map, should be around 1 1/2 - 2 minutes). Finally when the monster has been acquired, hit it with a special scent bomb (like a dung bomb) for the bird/palico/palamute to track for the rest of the hunt so that there is no more worry. Ultimately, a seasoned hunter's advanced knowledge and intuition on the movements and habits of the target would prove to be the fastest way to intercept it and complete the hunt. Which I think would prove a hunter's progression.
I liked your ideias about this system, and i have something to add. In adition to fiding tracks as a mechanic, you can also implement a new system for the monster beheviours, like if they are herbivours, what kind of plant do they eat, or if carnivour, what kind of creatures they like to hunt (Like Tigrex taste for Popo for exemple) which can right up give you areas to search for them without needing to mark on the map, making it reward your knowledge of the area and the location of small monsters, or even endemic life. By doing so, can make preparing for the hunt a more compeling thing, see, if you know that the Tigrex love Popo meat, atracting a Popo to a Tigrex hunting ground, could make the target monster vulnerable for attacks and traps while trying to eat its prey. Making you, the player, not the character, been rewarded by observation of monster behaviours and actually using that knowledge in gameplay, maybe making this a secret mechanic and giving more chances to gain rare monster parts at the end of the quest by doing so. Edit: they did something like this in the Boaboa quest in Iceborne, but, since every MonHun game tries to expand on each other, i like to see this mechanic being explored for real, Wilds would be perfect for it
I definitely like world's tracking system over the "Here is the monster go kill it approach" that Rise takes. I do wish that they would incorporate a few other things though to make the game more immersive. Like bring back the Cold & Hot Drinks, the farm from the older games where you actually have to gather the items instead of just going through menu's. I also think that instead of having access to your ENTIRE inventory while on a quest that you could only choose to bring a few extra items alongside a gunner pouch. Some more environmental effects would be really cool as well, like if your on a quest and it starts to rain so all the monsters retreat to their caves so you'd have to go fight them in there. Monster Hunter Dos actually had a really cool mechanic with the breeding season where certain monsters would only show up during that time and some would be more aggressive. Also seeing some more monster diversity between the genders would be really cool. Like if female Anjanath had a differently shaped nose than the male ones or something. Just a couple ideas.
I've read people mentionning the buddies who could help you out to find monster tracks, which is a great idea imo. I also like your heatmap system, but i'd like if Capcom tried other more in-game systems to give you clues about the monster. Like for instance, you could follow a large monster that is out of your league at the beginning of the game while it is hunting your actual target itself. This could work with visual clues, like for example if you see an Anjanath sniffing on the ground, looking like it's searching for prey, you try to hide from it and follow it to see if it can lead you to the Great Jagras you're looking for. This way you could use monster interactions not only for fighting with turf wars but for tracking as well. We could also imagine a smaller monster later on that is escaping a larger one. You could find the larger monster by following the tracks of the smaller one backwards, but that would start to be a little convoluted x) Great vid and great conversation to be had. Hopefully MH6 figures this out x)
As someone who started with World and never really had a problem with the extra visual noise, I thought the scoutflies were a really cool system. Being aimless at the start definitely sucked, but I think actually finding tracks and other signs of monster activity to hone in on its position fulfilled the fantasy of *hunting* and not just fighting monsters. So I think if they wanted a more hunting forward approach for the next game, they should expand on the best part of that system, the signs. Making more distinct footprints, claw marks, etc. so that we can get a semse of what types of monsters are in an area and making them frequent and readable enough that we can actually follow them without *needing* scoutflies (ideally they'd be optional or one of a variety of tracking aids you could prepare) would really drive home the feeling of actually searching for the monster instead wandering aimlessly or being led directly to it. Ideally, each monster would have it's own unique set of markings but reusing markings for similar monsters wouldn't be the worst thing. For example, nargacuga and barioth might use the same footprint but you'd know it was a barioth if you found sabertooth markings while tracking it. And perhaps the game could try to throw you off. Since rajang fangs might make similar markings, a map with nargacuga and rajang might look like it has a barioth instead to less experienced hunters
I think a good way to improve the research system you proposed would be two things: 1.) have monsters not always start at a research rank of 0, but some might be more or less researched to start. 2.) tie the base research level and gaining of research experience for a monster not just on fighting and tracking that same monster. Have you gain experience from time spent hunting in their biome, or hunting variants/non-variants of that monster, being at a higher hunter rank, etc.
The first pause I agree with. While I somewhat understand the sport, and keep in mind that 'somewhat' is an big overstatement for me by say 99 percent, it should be the last reason for hunting. If I want to eat something I'll legally go for it but only if it's overpopulated or not on the endangered list. Except for domesticated pets or what i consider creepy. I refuse to eat those rock fish or angler fish that one lady tried to eat alive as an unprofessional mukbang video. The sounds it makes terrify me. Basically i have standards when it comes to hunting and eating.
I actually really like this idea my only complaint is honestly personal I am legally blind so I kind of need the glowing particle effects to find my way around and I struggle reading the map layout because of my vision that is why I loved the scout flies in the world and ice born and now that I play in rise I have the guiding arrow turned on but I wish it was a little more pronounced especially in the sandy plains sometimes I still can’t see in there and wander around aimlessly but as I get the map memorized in the 3-D plane I have started to pick up routes from starting camp all the way to specific areas where monsters normally are such as the giant sandbox area and the watering hole I’m not sure what their areas are marked on the map but that’s where I find most monsters
Cool, but by the time you got enough tracks the monster has already moved. Personally I found the scoutflies to be the best iteration so far and find the "neck snapping" critique to be wildly over exaggerated
the "Hunteing" aspect was much more relevant in the older games chameleos was my favorite monster because of that. finding it felt more like a "hunt" than with any other monster, because you really had to observe the Environment with eyes AND ears
I think your solution is perfect as is! It enhances the hunting aspect at the beginning when the fun of exploration is one of the main hooks. And as you repeatedly hunt a specific monster it makes sense that eventually you would be able to pin point the monster location right away by simply knowing its habitat. At that point in the game your not looking to keep exploring you just want to get to your target asap so it does its purpose. But more importantly is you earned that feature, it wasn't just automatically shoved in your face, you earn the instant local marker by tracking and fighting the monster repeatedly. It will feel earned and does exactly what you need, get you to the monster your grinding for parts without wasting time wandering around the 2-3 zones where you know the monster usually starts in.
I think you have an excellent idea here. To address the researching about Master Rank and such, I had an idea that you could possibly do additional Master Rank research in that case. With the addition of the camera, let's say there's a recording feature implemented in the future, or even just the camera is fine. You can record scenes of Master Rank monster behaviors, deviations in their attack patterns, new patterns, more extreme forms of ailments the monsters can cause, etc. Furthermore, you can record environmental things as well, such as the behavior of other monsters in the area when your target is around (in the case of Deviljho or some other invasive species that doesn't belong to a locale). All of these can be compiled, and, if you're like me and have a sudden disparity in funds between HR 70 to HR 300, this optional research can be sold to line your pockets, as well as, in-universe, assist the Guild. In addition to this, you can even have bonus content unlocked from doing this optional research, like extra quests that have more unique cat and mouse dynamics in them or something that really tests your monster knowledge, with cosmetic and unique layered weapon rewards.
Really good video, but I have to say that in World, you can actually hunt mosters without the guide-flies once you know the monster you're hunting and the habitat where it lives; for example, if you want to hunt a Gran Jagras, you know where his nest is in the Ancient Forest; so, you can go there and wait for it. If we want to hunt a more roaming monster that doesn't return to its nest until it's injuried, like Anjanath for example, if you know that it hunts primarily Aptonoth, you can just go where the Aptonoths are. Plus, in World, all of the monsters roam precise areas of the biome they inabithat. Last thing, but this could be just my impression, i've never finded the guide-flies obnoxious or screen filling so much like you stated. That doesn't make this video less than amazing of course and sorry if my english isn't very good. Keep up your work Oceaniz
The biggest thing I can say is, its a video game. Even in your Khezu example by just saying it lives in Caves gave 2 options in that map. You check both and by then you should have seen it. Rise is designed in a way where you are almost always above the usable maps, so you can see a lot of ground. Same with old games, monster could move between at most like 4 zones in their wandering and would loop. Also spawn zones tended to be set, different species occasionally had different ones but once you used a food skill and saw it at the start that stayed fairly consistent given the primitive tech those games ran on. Sounds like they just need to refine World's attempt. Reduce the scoutflies (or eliminate them and just make interactables glow like Rise does) Set up a defined system of unlocks for research. Like you said levels affecting how quickly the Heatmap focuses on the target, but also doling out the Hitzone, Weakness, Ailments, Material info a little more. I think having the exact hitzone data is something that should only be left to 100% researched monster, not immediately after the first hunt. But elemental weakness could maybe start with a vague star system like World and roll into a specific number system later, same with Ailment data. Parts I think they did fine, hiding the actual part name until you obtain it but showing it can be gotten certain ways but not the in depth specifics until obtained. At least from the ground up on a new game going into the flavor text knowing they would be designing to give info about locales I don't think would add to their workload. They already make flavor text for every monster and quest, they would just have a focus now.
i think the best aproach for new players and late game is a rework of the world system, remove the particle effect and the neck snap from the scout flies, essentially have them be a blacklight that just lights up the tracks and trails monsters leave behind like they already do but without the particle clutter, and then implement more tracks depending on terrain, snow already leaves a trail when you walk through it so prints should be easier to follow in snowy terrain, mud monsters could leave a trail of mud etc, this breaks the rules of the challenge but maybe add some tree breaking/branches snapping tracks for flying monsters, and then implement the heatmap idea until youve gotten enough research to actually display their icons
I always use Psychoserum/Wave at the balloonman/Open MH Database anyways to locate the monster... Because that's how I like to play.. Or I can just not use those and try to immerse myself.. Which can be fun 1 or 3 hunts but if you're grinding which is the main catch of this game can become annoying REAAAALLY FAST... People need to be reminded as well that the guild is improving in terms of technology and that includes monster's knowledge, tracking them and even locating them that's reflected to how detailed the hunter notes is... Here' the catch: You are not alone in the field during a quest.. There's a bunch of other invisible people/helper that are just on standby waiting for your hunter to finish the hunt, assists you when you cart... Because the guild is already advanced... I don't know if they can go back yo being primitive and such but imho that would be a terrible idea... So it makes sense that currently tracking monsters will not be really hard, and it never was thanks to Psychoserum..
For the finding the monster part, I just used Tigrex armor set which detects any existing monster on the area No need for paintballs or roaming around 😊
I hate the visual polution of the flies in world, but I like the idea of researching a monster before engaging. I think one of the many things that set monhun apart from the competition are the systematic elements: your hunter has hunger represented by stamina, weapons dull after use, older games had the environmental hazards of heat and cold, etc and I think they could make dynamic systems for hunting... For example, having a monster track just appear in specific places is just a scripted event, but having the monsters actually leave tracks as they move creates a dynamic system that would change from quest to quest. Maybe a random Khezu lost a turf war in it's cave and its now its roaming somwhere it normally wouldn't, leaving khezu tracks in strange places. I would also love to be able to set up an ambush for the monster, maybe killing a kelbi and dragging its body somewhere to use as bait and lure big monsters to where you want to fight them, setting up traps before the fight even starts. But I think the heat maps alone would be ideal, it wouldn't be too much work and wouldn't require too much time from the players to find their prey
True that MH could always have expanded on hunting aspects. But, due to popular demand, CAPCOM did the opposite since the original MH games. They did cut down and trivialized many aspects other than combat. And what we got in MHW in terms of hunting aspects is just window dressing.
I played Monster Hunter game since the original and has been a huge fan since Freedom Unite and when World was announced I was very skeptical because of how different it is from any of the previous game and any extreme change in an established franchise is always scary but after playing it at release I realize MHW was the MH game of my dream It is not perfect and it does lose some of the handheld series charm and quirk but overall it is just so good that I consider it as one of my fav games of all time edit: 12:30 Mod makes MHW so much better, it fix the yanking scoutflies camera and adjust their brightness or remove them completely but yea the base game scoutflies system is very flawed. And no, once you played enough scoutflies become less and less relevant, you learn more about where the enemies active area are and you go there directly while collecting track along the way so it is a matter of which one is faster, so yes you do get better at finding out the monster location through learning their habit and following their track cuz there is old and new track so if they are nearby you can guess. The mark is created by the monster, when they walk or interact with the world or do idle animation so it isn't random at all. I played without scoutflies for so long and I know where to find the sign of monster without them, each monster have different habit and location where they leave marks and when you know where to look they are quite obvious even without the highlight so it does add a layer on top of just knowing their general location or range of activity. That said it is true that without the highlight they are a bit hard to see because they are not designed to be found without it and when there is a highlight they are too eyecatching and quite distracting. All in all MHW failed to find the balance of being tedium and overly handholding the player, I mean imagine if MHW is like Red Dead or older game where you have to slowly gather item and use bugnet to catch individual bugs which is the opposite to the more streamline system we have now. Convenient and fun VS realistic mechanic has always been difficult to balance and they could do better or at least give the player more option without using mod. I hope they can improve this in MHW2 / MH7. Anyway although I don't disagree with you completely I think you are pushing it a bit too much
To add to this, we could have your pet owl have a secondary heat map. As you train your owl by feeding it monster parts and tracks, it'll hover over where it can see the monster. You'll know where it is visible from the air, but not necessarily exactly there. You can overlap that yellow owl heatmap with the red heatmap to narrow down where the monster might be.
Rise missed the mark so much on the tracking aspect. You have a dog that can sniff the trail as you go across the possible locations, but the most interesting way would be to just climb a higher place and use the vantage point to see where the monster is.
Another good idea would be utilizing sound. Monsters would roar more as they either attack prey or fight each other, and game (hopefully) proper stereo sound would point your ears in the proper direction.
I think a cool way to unite the combat part of the gameplay and your improved research notes system is to also include combat tips for the monster within the notes. I think it should go as far as to show you how to dodge certain attacks and explaining ways you can take advantage of certain openings. This way the system you suggested could still be interesting after the first few hunts. Once you already know how to find the monster your mind will start to focus more on the combat aspects of the game.
This was likely because I truly dove DEEP into World and am normally the "encyclopedia of game knowledge for the thing we're playing right now" in my friend group, but I was the person that knew: "Ah yes, [X monster], they spawn in this location, follow this route throughout the map, and by this time in the quest will probably be around here, except in THIS specific event quest, where they actually spawn here, and the most efficient way to get to them is to travel to zone..." So, when the video got to how it was handled in World, it felt like I experienced a totally different game from "bugs show you where the guy is," because at a certain point, I had done enough bug scooping to be able to completely ignore that. And since my friends hadn't, I could be the mentor and say, "Yes, we'll be spawning at this camp and heading in this direction to reach it." I felt like a hunter because my experience and mental bookkeeping allowed me to feel like one, not because the game encouraged me to, and that's a shame.
As someone who constantly gets reccommended MH games to satisfy my desire to hunt monsters, but who doesnt find them fun because they aren't a 1 hour build up to a 10 second fight, does anyone here have any reccommendations?
I think Evolve actually had a great idea for immersive hunting. Have birds fly up in the sky which would give away the monster's location should the Monster trigger it. We could have the environment be influenced by the monster to give away it's location both in the map in the red circle shown in the video, and visually by either having a pack of Aptonoth running away from a certain location or something like that.
Ok i'm seeing a way to fix the issue of new players not reading the quest description: Cohoot but instead of instantly showing everything, you can use it 1-2 times during a hunt to pinpoint the monsters location for a certain time on the map. (it would also make sense with the cohoot cause c'mon let the poor bird rest sometime!) another issue i could see tho is deterring new players of even trying the game. For example one of my friends doesnt like MH cause its 50% running around and 50% fighting atm, and most people just enjoy the fighting part a lot more
I like this idea and wish these would be implemented, with that fade of relevance. That was a well thought out solution to both making the hunting more prevalent early on, and how fading it to the background could also be an ingame milestone. low rank starts out blank or large heat map, high rank starts out with a middling sized heat map and finishes with them being just on the map by the time you get to master rank, having your urgent quests be each time it tightens up.
I think that the system you described is fine, I’d like to propose some small tweaks though. Firstly, I’d like to propose making the research center be able to level up as the game goes on, enabling you to reduce the amount of grinding you need to do to learn about monsters in tandem to your progression. Secondly, I’d like it if there were more ways to activate the hotmaps than just finding a footprint. Say for example you need a total of ten footprints to know exactly where a monster is, even on your first hunt. I’d like to propose two ways to progress the hotmaps besides just finding footprints. For this example, let’s use red khezu, the subspecies of khezu. I think that for subspecies and other similar monsters (the great raptors, for example), hunting related monsters would give progress to others in the same group. Say you had hunted enough regular khezu to start with two footprints worth of progress, you’d have enough progress with red khezu to start with one. Additionally, I’d like to see the return of the monster books, though maybe the method for acquiring them would need to change. Either way, I’d like the books on each monster type to give you a footprints worth of progress on all monsters of that type, such as all flying wyverns for the flying wyvern book. Maybe also add specific books for each monster, such as a khezu book that’d give you an additional footprint. I know this would probably be too much effort to be feasible, but I like it when research is also a part of preparation, and I think this would help aid that feeling.
One idea I think might help with reducing aimless wandering and conveying the feeling of an actual hunt could be to have "Tracking Quests" of a sort. In these quests, you wouldn't encounter any large monsters; instead, your objective would be to find and investigate traces of the target monster on the map. There would be at least one trace in each area the target monster frequents on said map. The idea is that before the player actually faces a monster, they should have an idea of where to find it, where it might go to eat or sleep, and some of the attacks/ailments it will use. Said quests could also be a way for players to explore and learn the maps with relatively little pressure. Competing a tracking quest grants access to more-traditional hunting quests for that monster in that respective location. One flaw with this design is that it could get repetitive having to do a tracking quest for each large monster species in the game, especially those that can found in multiple locales. For obvious reasons, there would be no tracking quests for arenas/single-area-locations or sieges (or any monster only encountered in them), and invaders would only have tracking quests on maps where there's an actual quest to hunt them.
I like the system you proposed. And I even have a workaround for the flaw of it getting repetitive/being too labour-intensive for casual players. You make it toggleable. In the tutorial of the game you give a small pop-up saying "so here's the steps on how to hunt a monster if you want to explore the ecosystem we built. If you're just here for the combat untick this box (you can do so at any point in the hub world) and we will always display the monsters position on the minimap. Now of course this also isn't a perfect solution. "But if I decide I want it back after a while but have never picked up any monster tracks?" I guess you could still record the data in the background and assume an additional point bonus per quest to add on top for the ecology meter. Dunno. Cool idea regardless, I'd love to see it :)
The problem with the drip fed system is that anyone who would want to know approximately where a monster is prehunt, would already clue in by the time they unlock it in your research system. I know where to find nearly every monster on nearly any map. Puki puki hangs out in the north, Legiana stays to the upper sections of the highlands, barroth makes rounds through the center desert canyons, so on and so forth. So I do agree that this mechanic would be self destructive. However it would be a fantastic addition to the identity of Monster Hunter.
I like the idea of unlocking information about the monster as you fight them, but I want it to be more I guess realistic. Imagine if you had to use a specific element against a monster to learn its weakness to that element, or to a specific damage type, blunt cutting or ammo. At the end of a hunt you can show a nice infographic chart showing all the stuff you learned and as you fight and directly learn more about the monster it fills out. If that takes too long or is too tedious, you could even learn information about it from people you hunt with, say youre a raw blademaster and you hunted with a gunner using ice ammo, you learn the monster ammo hitzones and ice hitzones from them. If you wanna get really weird with it, each hitzone and weakness could have a lvl that initially gives it a star rating and progresses to learning the numerical hitzone value eventually. I think its more engaging than just filling up a bar though that could have a place too for tracking or little journal excerpts about ways to track them. Just got a little further in the video and I think the heatmaps are a great idea. You could even have it make sense within the world in the form of rumors or sightings from whoever commissioned the quest. I dont think the self destructiveness is really an issue since you want the first 3 or so hunts to be memorable, atmospheric, and educational about the monster and its ecology. But after youve fought them 10 times you just want the fight itself and the materials. It gets less intrusive as youd want it to
Hunting for Sport is indeed cruel. But we’re not the first or the last animal that will engage in such. Plus if anything, it raises your skill level. And I personally believe hunting for sport is leagues better than whatever the farming industry is doing to animals.
i think some teritorial monster like rathalos, anjanath, zinogre, etc (the apex predator on the ecosystem) roar more frequently so tthe hunter know what monster is in the are if they remember the sound, and maybe to make it even more fun, make the monster actually sometimes follow the hunter's tracks when visiting the hunter's previously visited area and even prepare ambush, so sometimes you hear some rustling behind and when turned around there is a a green narga behind a fallen tree ready to pounce on you
I'd honestly be so bold as make monster behavior during fights and outside of them like Shadow of Mordor did. You try to kill an orc with an arrow and then you just find out he enrages if you use a bow, and it's shown to you with a message somewhere in the screen. The same could be added to MH, you hit a monster with what is usually enough to poison them and it isn't poisoned? You get a small pop-up somewhere telling you "You learned that this monster has poison resistance" Same for something like Sonic bombs or traps shenanigans (Rajang, nargacuga, deviljho, for example)
3:24 Die Kommentarsektion ist nun Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
Verdammt richtig.
Irgendwie war mir nicht klar, dass Oceaniz Deutsch spricht und mich hat das gerade mega überrascht, weil das Englisch so frei von unserem hässlichen Akzent ist :D
@@Dradix35 ging mir ähnlich
In der Kanalinfo steht, dass er aus der Schweiz kommt.
Hätte es nicht besser zusammenfassen können ^^
For old world monster hunter games, there was a point where I no longer needed a map or use paintballs on monsters because I memorized the the locations where they would be. Even though it was minor, you can track the monsters without paintballs by following where their shadow went when they fly into another area or just following them if they just walk. I've always thought that paintballs and the map were just a guide for beginners and when you play long enough you wouldn't really need them.
Same.
Yeah, Oceaniz kinda describes the old system as all or nothing but just like you said, with enough experience a player can transition to using some or none of the tracking mechanics and solely rely on game knowledge to locate monsters.
i think another cool boon from mastering a monsters pattern is freeing up 2 spaces for items by giving up the paintball/psychoserum and map
Huh
When I first played 4, I never used paintballs
I believe the original idea of Monster Hunter is to experience bounty hunters instead of hunting hunters. That’s why they have those prices upon monsters, danger rankings, guild and titles. The capturing is like those “dead or alive” situations.
You have it entirely correct. There is a reason why you're a fully lisensed and professional hunter registered to a global organisation. It's even stated the reason you pay for the bounties first is to pay for the guilds resources spent on the mission.
Actually many hunters worked like that too, there was a time where even the goverment payed well to anyone who brought a wolf´s pelt or snakes bodies to be sure their populations are -decimate- controled.
Designing a tracking system for newer MH games is tough.
I like the way it's done in the older games, where if you repeatedly hunt a monster, you can memorize areas where it's typically found, becoming more efficient at locating the monster over time. This way the game rewards experience and game knowledge. And also, the maps are small enough, so that you can go through each area fairly quickly.
Obviously, this won't work in large and seamless maps of modern MH games. And imma be real, learning monster's habitat through flavour text sounds vague, unintuitive, and would require a lot or menu navigation and reading uninteresting descriptions.
The only way out I can see is doing the scoutflies thing all over, but making it less intrusive.
Maybe make palamutes sniff out tracks and follow the monster? And after you've found it once, have it be permanently displayed on the map?
I remember in my first game I couldn't find the Great Jagras for like 5 minutes after it showed up even with the scoutflies, and the pussy I was just gave up and logged out.
I was really green back then I didn't even know MH only that World looked really overly complex in game mechanics and the monsters looked weird but very detailed.
I actually did that myself all throughout World, since the monsters DO consistently only visit a few areas based on their type. For example, Rathian typically only wanders around the forested section of the Wildspire Waste or around their outskirts. But Pink Rathian will venture down into the southern portion of the desert near the default starting camp. Barroth tends to pace in a circle around the center of the map, going between the muddy water areas and the ant mounds he eats at. Diablos will rarely leave their own den except to eat cacti.
There are some exception cases, but they actually do make sense. For example, Rathalos can visit the entire southern and eastern parts of the Ancient Forest, along with nearly every canopy area. But that's because he's the king of the forest; he's constantly asserting his dominance over the territory with open skies, free to do as he wants. Comparatively, Anjanath typically sticks to the inner jungle and only ventures out to feed on Aptonoth because he's not the apex; going into a big enough clearing risks a Rathalos attacking him.
I love the integration with genuine ecology to the old system of "just memorize it". Because to me, in the older games, a monster "spawns" in an area, but in World, it "lives" in that area.
I really like your idea of the palamute essentially replacing scoutflies. It’s a more relatable analogue to real world blood hounds while also solving the problem of the scoutflies being visually intrusive. Plus you don’t HAVE to take palamutes on quests so you could just not use it if you don’t want to.
I actually remembered it exactly in mhw like how it was in older games, everything still there in MHW - there are areas that monster will likely show up, but now a bit harder to remember with more immersive, more complicated locations with vertical height/depth tho
Got to agree. Reading is boring for most. I think this guy, briliant as he is, is biased since he's a huge speculative zoology nerd that eats these stuff. (No offense). I want to see baits used more. I don't want my reward for doing all that tracking just be finding the monster. Maybe there's some unique aspect to the specific monster that i hunt that can be exploited. I want to see players setting up the hunting field ambushing monsters. I want to see player's plan backfire horrendously, the beast smarter than them and became the hunter.
I dunnoe, but the other way I could see this is like remove the whole "quest system" and developing their investigation mechanic in world into more extended detail...
Where the main downtime play is to really track,gather,encounter and attempt to fight (But they will flee easily) and report your findings and then these quest will be generated and you slowly unlock the monsters as you progress and also "Trade" your findings like "HEy guys, I discovered the azure rathalaos, you guys want to come on this quest" so the monster you discover. so you may get very lucky to find the snort of an elder dragon to start the process to locate and maybe "research" the snort, send it out to arbiary research and it generates quest for it. like you can also make it that the monster that flee, will appear again sometime down the road and it still retain the damage you dealt and the broken parts it was inflicted...... like some of the elderdragon runs in the past game where they escape but when u start the quest again, they retain their damage and their current health pool you had from the previous encounter.
Of course this mechanic would mainly remove the "Storyline" aspect of the game/no keyquest to hunt to progress up the star level.
I dunnoe, its just base on my experience back in world when they release the demo, and there was this "rumor" saying that nargacuga could spawn sometimes in the demo hunt and you can get to chance encounter it and you get stupid excited by that thought u may get to encounter it out of the blue, that kind of aspect of the game where you progress by discovering the monsters, instead of doing the structure/story driven quest, but that also removes other aspects of whats been establish so yeah lol.
Man imagine a MH game based soley on the investigation mechanic. That could be similar to pokemon legends arceus in an aesthetic type of way. The first generation of monster hunters with much different weapons. I could see that working but it could backfire making a grindy game even more grindyer. Plus more obscure quests being hidden behind stricter investigation milestones. But perhaps that could be a good thing.
Monster hunter needs more secret and dangerous monsters because one of my only gripes and felt missed oppritunities for sunbreak as not making gaismagorn a black dragon.
Removing a system that has been in every single game would indeed be a bold move.
@@Moonblade64
and that would make those "elder dragon" endgame armors pretty much really "Rare armors" that only the commited could get, but yeah, any grinding game will destroy any mechanic thats meant for "immerson" if repeated actions are needed. so its a balance thats almost impossible to achieve properly... triangle stats.
@@NCHProductions it could work. Heck it could even make the black dragons seem even more like a threat. Imagine if we just WANDERED imto Schrade or discovered an underwater black dragon based off of chutulu
correct me if im wrong but i mean they kinda did that with the "grinding" lands or no?
I think the answer is a lot simpler and has been right under our noses the whole time. Tracking animals. We already have the Cohoot but seeing as we only see it at the beginning of the quest and at the Hub, it is barely a "buddy". I'm talking about the Palico and Palamute, they follow us since we're the main Hunter obviously, but they are the ones using their animal senses to find tracks, scents, etc. to assist us. Unlike the Scoutflies that auto-lock, we have to guide our buddies to find clues for us. The more you level up your buddies, the better they are at tracking monsters and relaying that info back to us. This info can even be logged into the Hunter's Notes so even if you go on a Hunt without buddies, you still have all the tracking info needed to find the monster justifiably without them. That way it doesn't overload the player with lots of menus and particle effects and glowing map icons, it doesn't overly slow the beginning of new hunts too much (but new areas encourage exploration anyways), and by bonding with your buddies more you are becoming a better hunter yourself adding on to the theme of symbiosis of nature.
This is the only palatable idea I've heard. Every other take I've seen is devoid of cognition
@@Jumpin.Jagaloon There is a better solution. Stop trying to develop a part of the game that isn't fun or rewarding.
I myself was thinking that, and there might be more visuals depending on what you are hunting and what is also in the area, especially with double or triple monsters in one quest. Say Deviljho teeth in the ground in the same spot where, there is normally a rocky path, but the bigger rocks are scattered and broken, signaling its rival Rajang is about someplace and that monster was *not* listed in the quest so there is your surprise visitor while you hunt. Claw marks for something scaling walls, and the difference is smaller marks for Tobi Kadachi, a lot bigger and longer for Nargacuga, burnt ground for a Rathalos fireball or slide marks depending on the monster. Or you're running around and you suddenly start slipping on some flattened, wet looking grass. Hey, Mizutsune's been here! Or bubbles floating down river where you see a waterfall where Mizu might be hanging out a level above you.
@@grimnir8872 Because combat is the ONLY real gameplay, right?
You could even tie the Cohoot into tracking in which it only deploys to find the monster _after_ you have found it and it flees to a new area. The Cohoot leads you to where the monster went, but does not keep tabs on other monsters in the area so you have to be vigilant and not say run into Goss Harag chasing down Khezu.
Yeah cahoots are mega OP in their observations. I would even make it so that the player auto sends the cahoot out at the start of a quest but it returns after sometime. And essentially the player can send the cahoot out at any point during the quest to search for and display one of whatever monster is expected to be in the area (usually the target monster of the quest). BUT there's a chance the cahoot could be frightened due to the target seeing it or another threatening monster en route, causing it to return to you with no data. Every time the cahoot returns, the icon of the targeted monster fades away. Im not a game dev and there are obvious flaws with my proposed system but still :p
I thought world's system was pretty good was rather engaging in the early game. Then later on you only had to grab a few tracks for them to pop up. Then you just eventually ignored the system entirely cause you had memorized there possible spawn locations.
Yeah, I think there should be a distinction in wanting to refine a system and making it better, but not saying it was bad in the first place.
They definitely took notes.
In the different playthroughs of World that me and my friend would do, we would basically always be at research level one because we would just book it straight to the monster instead of waiting for the scoutflies to find it for us.
Funny enough when I started a new hunter, I turned off my map and other things plus the flys too, ngl following the tracks and other clues actually seems fun especially solo
YES exactly!!
I think my main problem with this video is saying the downtown in oldergame is just running around . The stinginess of and harder access to ressource in older game meant you either had to make more individual ressource runs or actually use the downtime/research phase to farm ressources until you find the monster , and with your knowledge of the map increasing you can plan even better routes . Its only with the portable series bringing farm and expending on them over and over that this aspect really eroded away and made gen 4 mostly running around .
I think that ressource management and gathering is something that should be taken into account when designing a tracking system too.
I had actually not really thought about how it interacts with the resource aspect of the game - excellent point!
yeah, when i played world, just starting out, my main method of resource gathering was...resource gathering. i had to make space in my inventory to collect all the herbs and nuts and bugs and whatnot during the hunt to use later on. as the farm expanded, though, that became less important, and eventually i completely erased all empty space from my inventory loadouts (except maybe one or two slots for special afflictions like poison or environmental hazards like cold drinks).
I never minded the Scoutflies but I definitely get people finding them to be an excess of visual clutter. But I also don't find their concept to be 'anti-hunting' since they act as a living GPS, since, conceptually they work like a bloodhound. Get the scent of the target and they track it; so unless you want to argue real hunters using animals for tracking through scent isn't real hunting I dunno how much that argument holds up.
That said the idea of refining the system that Scoutflies work on to be more involved like you conceptualized, first time entering a hunt you have some general hint of where to start based on ecology, find some tracks that imply something else about the animal's habits as a springboard for where to search next, and the more clues you find the more it narrows down that heat map you mentioned, that could work wonderfully. And as you said, the endgame of this and the Scoutflies the system gets almost completely mitigated for the sake of keeping the primary gameplay loop the focus to avoid the tedium, I think that's the best happy medium you could ask for. Get the hunter sim aspects but they fade away for the main gameplay loop thats so addicting by the end to not get bogged down.
I totally agree with this statement, the scoutflies are used as a GPS and after gaining more track from the monster you eventually gain enough evidence to hunt the monster without needing the scoutlifes to much. Nice take :)
I also didn't mind them either, if I got confused they helped me get back on track, especially when I'm using my ride to get to them.
I feel they should drop it, as it doesn't really add anything to a hunt other than a little flavourful moment in a mostly annoying phase of the hunt.
Most people often forget, you use scout flies to gather information for the researchers back in the base, that's why it's a track based system because the they don't have a lot information about the place, you're literally exploring a new world and the research and "hunting" is being done by the people back home. The knowledge the guild didn't give you is what the monsters would be doing during your hunt, they would actually go gather food, hunt smaller prey, you can use that knowledge to hunt specific monsters.
I believe the reason why you don't have to do anything in rise is because the people in the village have already done the tracking for you and you're just there to kill the thing, the people of the village in Rise is very familiar with the world around them so it's like a monster got into your garden and not hunting in the wilderness like World.
I always loved having little quirks of the monsters to learn about to make hunting them easier. Fishing up a gobul or plesioth in gen 3 with a frog felt massive brained especially because it would bring them to the area you were in. Also love feeding nibelsnarf bombs
I really wish there were ways to make bait better, I want to lure things by placing meat or taking out some smaller monsters. With ludroth bringing royal to the area or similar
Basarios in rise can be stunned by putting a barrel bomb in its direction when its doing the dig.
tbh i only used the bait once or twice on a deviljho way back in mhp3rd, never again. its just way too gimmicky, i wish they improved baits and clever use of items in monsters
Great video as ever.
I think your heat map idea is a very nice one, and as good as it can get whilst not creating an entirely new mechanic. If one were to cheat and add one, I think something akin to 'detective mode' from the excellent Batman : Arkham series could be a good way of adding tracking without the scoutflies too.
In general I personally would love to see more diegetic information and less non-diegetic information; as well as tracks, things like varied, specific alarm calls and other monster behaviour hinting at where the target may be and letting you find this out for yourself over telling you.
I also think this is something the devs have wanted to do for a long time but never had the stomach to commit to it fully. Attempts were made in Tri, and the World book also hints it was originally intended to have a lot more 'hunting'. I think if hunting became a bigger part of things, the 50 min quest could also start with first blood over entering the map.
I also think larger maps / an open world would make the tracking more relevant later in the game as monster movements and spawns become less predictable across larger areas.
My two cents on it all!
Oh hey, very cool to see you here, I love your ecology vids :)
I like your idea! I had thought about suggesting some "Hunter Sense" mechanic in this video too actually, but I did really want to limit myself to existing mechanics - gamedev can have such a knock-on effect (like when capcom said "what if we didnt have loading screens" and accidentally reinvented the franchise lol) so I wanted to stay safe.
Either way, very interested to see how MH6 handles this.
oh didn't thought I'd see you here
I think that mh can pull some ideas from the Evolve video game. In evolve, there were certain creatures in the “predator warning symbiosis” niche like with some monkeys with deer today, and if you got to close to it, it would emit a loud cry that the hunters could track. Also, scavenger birds that the hunters could use would flock over you as you killed and ate more.
Monster hunter should not be looking at sub par games to try and appeal to a minor and annoying part of the game, Tracking the Monsters is such a literal non-part and I'd rather have the game develop actually fun systems than wasting time on redundant systems.
@@grimnir8872 go play some boss rush games, you'll probably be happier, that or play arenas
Haven't watch it full but I do remember the painful experience running around on base world because I could not find any track and the flies isn't responding until I reach the correct place.
I think it makes sense the game is called monster Hunter even though it doesn't look like real world hunting and that's because in the monster Hunter world because of the nature of monsters and the weapons humans have available to them do you need to use different strategies to hunt monsters so even though it doesn't look like real world hunting it is hunting in the monster Hunter world.
I want to make a simple suggestion for MHR.
Make the Cahoot a timed thing.
Like when you start the quest it will not show you any monsters and after a few minutes you'd see a notification mentioning that your cahoot has returned.
When you go back to camp or call it to your side, it'll relay the general locations of monsters on the map, but using your heatmap idea.
Mix that in with your idea for the heatmap and ecology ideas, I think that would be a pretty good system as well.
You know, "hunting" doesn't only mean the hunter going to the target. It also includes luring the target into specific spots. And Monster Hunter already had something like that.
Now, I'm a fifther, so I don't know how they worked in previous games. But there IS bait in World (and Rise), which I never actually figured out how it works, but it's supposed to lure a Monster into. Heck, there is even poisoned bait, yo.
You could expand on this by giving the player different methods of reaching their target. You could just casually walk through the entire map in the hopes to stumble upon them. You could improve your odds by reading info on locales and monsters and study their behaviour (or simply learn it through experience). Maybe use some other "tools", such as Scoutflies or Palamutes, that help you find tracks of the Monsters. Or, if you are desperate, lure the monster to a specific place by doing certain things/events.
Though, personally, I don't think the Scoutfly as a system itself was broken, just their implementation wasn't all that great. So what I personally would love to see is a Palamute-based tracking system as an updated Scoutfly-System.
First of all, in World, many monsters had very specific spawns per map (usually 2, maybe 3), which you could easily learn by experience alone btw. In fact, after 1000h of playing World, I know roughly in which areas every single monster might spawn, so I easily check out these places first. If I don't find the monster there, I usually at least find some tracks on the way, which either leads me to the next track, or the Monster directly.
World definitely still encouraged you to learn the behaviour of monsters, but was gentle enough to never require it. And unlike Rise, you could even select which camp you spawn at, further decreasing walking time through knowledge. I KNOW that Radobaan only walks around the upper parts of the Rotten Vale. That Tobi-Kadachi prefers areas with lots of trees. That Barroth prefers areas with water and mud. If you take these things into account, finding the Monster you want to hunt becomes so much easier.
Of course, you first need to learn this. And while I personally don't mind the first random exploration through half the map on my first new Monster encounter, I totally do agree that the game should give us more Info on a Monster beforehand, if possible. Most of these monsters ARE known to the Guild, and thus should be very well documented already.
I also think that most people don't actually hate the SYSTEM of the Scoutflies, but only their VISUAL presentation of. Think of it:
The Scoutflies will navigate you to the nearest track of the selected Monster. From there on, they lead you to more tracks (which generally are in the same area and/or move you towards the target) until it finally reveals the targets location directly. This, in theory, is a pretty good balance between "having to search for the target first", without being too overbearing.
But the problem lies in HOW they navigate you. As you have mentioned in your video, their visual presentation is really bad. They take away from the scenery, they do a bad job at communicating which direction they want you to go and their priorities are really annoying as well, like how they completely disappear once a monster engages you. If you instead replace them with something more easy to read that doesn't kill the whole atmosphere, I think it might be much more fun to work with.
The way meat bait works in World (I assume this is what you're referring to) is pretty much the same as it worked in older games. You could lay down a piece of raw meat, or raw meat imbued with poison/paralysis/sleep on the ground, and if a monster was exhausted it would begin to eat the meat. The only two monsters I have ever seen it work on successfully are Tigrex and Deviljho, and it was a huge part of my personal strategy for fighting Deviljho when I was younger (as well as a lot of third gen players). You lay down some tainted meat, and since Deviljho is constantly getting exhausted, it would eat the meat and then fall asleep for an easy sleep-bombing.
In Rise, I assume this same system also exists, but in addition you can use the meat bait items from chests (and raw meat I assume) by placing them in the watery areas of the Flooded Forest to summon a school of piranhas that start jumping and biting at it. If you do it near a monster, the monster takes damage while constantly being flinched in place from the bites.
@@randomnpc445it also works for Jagras in a roundabout way, when tired they go toward aptonoth and eat one.
The most epic way to legally murder Endangered animals
Related note for Rise: while hunting was made irrelevant by the cohoot, general map exploration was incentivized by linking it to a pseudo difficulty slider (extra atk, def, hp, & stam from spiribirds). You can ignore it if you want, target specific buffs like atk using demon petalace and only getting red birds, or do a full route to max your stats. While I'd like more hunting elements too I actually really appreciate the spiribirds.
25:49 this honestly incapsulates my opinion of MH. I prefer the old monster hunter games because they're slower and the majority of the game is during LR/HR/GR and not the "end game" at least for me. Apparently 4U had an end game. I never got there because there was enough nuance and difficulty in the entire rest of the game that I never needed to have the discussion about "whether or not 4U has a good end game"
Basically all this is to say, you're right, the hunting mechanic would become superfluous by the end of the game as it was in World.
But if the front end of the game was as difficult and as engaging as it used to be in in older titles, it would be a lot more substantial and wouldn't fall into the background so quickly.
I really like the 'heat map' idea. It satisfies that hunting/tracking desire (without scout flies doing the work for you), while simultaneously not making it drag into the higher ranks. It makes sense when you're low rank that you'd need clues or hints on where to find a monster you never hunted before, but as you hunt them more, they'd be easier to find. It wouldn't make HR quests a random search for the monster, but it wouldn't exactly give you an icon on the map either like in Rise. And even if you the player don't always remember 100% which area the monster is in, your hunter would, so the shrinking/pin pointing of the heat map makes sense. I know people and speed runners would complain that a quest takes longer than 3 minutes now, but I think it would add some immersion & flavor.
Also a reason to actually read the descriptions. I tend to read a couple here and there when I remember, but if it added something besides just flavor and actual gameplay tips, I would definitely read them more often.
I have the spatial awareness of a goldfish, so I'm okay with just having the monsters on the map at all times.
LetsCommitEcocide/10
So basically you're saying that games should be designed for the lowest common denominator...
And you wonder why so many games are generic and bland.
@@MA-go7ee That right there shows how bad Monster Hunter Rise really is
@@MA-go7ee he never said that bro...
Its called monster hunter, not monster duelist
@@oldman6916 Strawmen are annoyingly effective in debates, you should realize by now no one online is trying to have an honest conversation, just jerking each other off on how well they can argue and piss off anyone else
Here is my little idea for an improvement to the Scoutflies system. If any of you had already commented something similar, please let me know. Anyways, hope you like it:
In MHW the Scoutflies, apart from floating around the ground, were also displayed in the form of a small line coming out of the lamp on the player's belt. Once I've been playing for a while, I noticed that this line also rotates in the direction that the larger group of Scoutflies takes you, which led me to think that if the System were more discreet, it would be a great improvement. If the Scoutflies, instead of being this train of particles that you follow, worked more like a compass visible only on the player model (as it already does in World) and subtly separated to reveal the evidence (Which it also does in World ), the whole Scoutflies system would be much nicer, as it would maintain its usefulness throughout the majority of the game, without being visually distracting. Basically, remove the bigger and annoying trail, keep the rest of the Scoutflies functions, highlighting trails and objects, and maybe flying around the monster when you find it, to keep the scenting element as part of the game.
This wouldn't solve the whole hunting problem, but at least it would have come as more visually appealing to the player, while keeping it's functionality, Wich I actually really like.
I think a system of memorizing monster knowledge so you can learn and find the monsters more and more easily is just how the game works to begin with. Building in a players memorization of what zones a monster spawns in while giving SOME kind of helpful indicator was what old heads wanted all along until World came out and they had to agree too much change is bad. This is a great video. You're definitely onto something here.
Good stuff. I'd just add that the photography feature from Iceborne could be a great optional method to more quickly accumulate research and fulfill the "observation" aspect of hunting.
I'm loving all the Monster Hunter content recently
I will say this in Rise's defense though; the setting is one of the best for the idea of hunting though if nothing else, at least base Rise in my opinion.
As many have pointed out Rise has a very strong Japanese theme particularly a very strong _ninja theme._ Kamura is a rural, isolated village which is why it was vulnerable to the Rampage cycle in the past. Now they aren't isolationist, they readily welcome people into their village but they are definitely out of the way and some distance from the next nearest settlements by land. There are a couple of traders that bring knick knacks and goods from afar but there does not seem major trade between it and other locations. Kamura is completely self-sufficient which means the monster parts you acquire and the dangerous monsters you put down are more important than ever for providing for and protecting the village.
Now what does this have to do with ninjas? Despite our western association with ninjas being master assassins, that couldn't be further from the truth. Ninjas were incredibly self-sufficient and their villages were often rural and not very wealthy, so they needed to utilize everything they could. Many famous ninja tools and weapons were repurposed from other tools and their equipment was often multi-purpose in order to make it as useful as possible; sai were fashioned after gardening implements, ninja swords are small not just so they can be easier to conceal but because metal is a precious resource, their grappling hooks were made from hand scythes and so on and so on. Ninjas were incredibly resourceful and in keeping in that tradition utilizing the resources provided by a hunt in game is totally in line with their way of life. Even the dango (hyorogan version of feasts, providing all the calories without the excess smell to tip off monsters) and the newly introduced palamutes (if any animal could be associated with ninjas its dogs) tie into this ninja theme.
Of course though this is all lore and speculation, not game play.
I’m definitely one of the guys looking for the immersive Monster Hunter experience so I feel a good tracking system would do wonders for any future MH games.
I love your idea of tracks revealing an area the monster visited that gets smaller the more you gather rather than revealing the monsters exact position. Means you actually have to spot the monster first. Though I think I’d like it if paintballs were part of that package. Track the monster, throw the paintball, done. Tracking over(least until the effect wears off). Time to fight. But the monster position can still be lost which leaves the potential for surprises as you try to find it again.
I also really want to see monsters set traps for the hunter and I can see that working really well with your idea of using heat maps. Picture it like this:
You’re on a hunt for a nerscylla. You’ve spent some time collecting tracks and narrowed down its location to one small spot on the map. You go there and find tracks so fresh the monster must have just been there but no monster in sight. You stand there a moment puzzled. Then it dawns on you. You look up but it’s too late. You’ve already been snared in the web of the nerscylla that was waiting just above you. The tables turn and the hunter becomes the hunted.
The thought of having that potential for tension even before seeing the monster just makes me giddy. Plus imagine tricking your friends into walking into it. So much fun to be had.
23:35 For people not reading there could be the possibility to have a companion such as the handler who just tells you at first that she read some notes that the khezu was last seen somewhere in the north or in caves or whatever. By the time you reach monster nobody saw before, you´ll be experienced enough to know the the heatmap stuff
This is an absolutely wonderful idea, and Id love to see something like this implemented. Ya, it would kinda punish people do didn't do any of the reading, but there are ways to make people more aware that doing such is important. Maybe for the first quest or 2, have a hunter join the player so "show them the ropes" (as rise has shown npc hunters is now a thing). Have them generally guide the player, saying "we need to find tracks to get started. The quest description mentioned that the Khezu was seen near a cave, so lets start there." or something similar. That way the player is aware they have to start with finding tracks, and are explicitly told that the quest descriptions give you a hint on where to start. It also adds an NPC to help you fight for the first large monster quest, to help ease people into the combat for people new to MH. Then as you keep hunting and such, you find out WHY the monsters were "last seen aroung X or Y". That would be a neat thing for people to figure out, and those who don't want to engage with the reading part of it can just remember "Khezu seen near cave", but this way it rewards the players that wanted to learn more and prepare. And it all disintegrates in the end game anyway, so it wouldn't add too much by the end.
Honestly, to work a realistic hunting system into the game you would have to completely overhaul the entire premise of the series.
You'd basically NEED a fully (and I mean *FULLY* ) open world map without broders or load screens, even going as far as to make the villages part of the map as well. Given how big maps are getting these days I doubt that would be much of a problem...
The real problem would be the monsters themselves. You would need a system that, at the very start of the game, generates and keeps track of dozens (if not hundreds) of individual monsters across the entire map. They would also need a staggering amount of behaviors to give each individual creature a routine of sorts in it's environment. Interspecies interactions, environmental interactions, seasonal interactions, day/night cycle behaviors, passive/active/resting behaviors, hunting/foraging/feeding pattern, and courting/mating/nesting behaviors to name JUST A FEW!
At this point you are literally creating an ecological simulation that will run continuously in the background wether the player interacts with it or not. The world will have to be very much alive with its own ebb and flow independent of the player/s. That Rath you saw earlier in the game is still out there; flying around, picking off Aptanoths, fighting off other wyverns, tending to it's nest, going to the river to dring, ect in the background. You may never see that individual again, but the effects of it's behavior will be FELT at the very least. Maybe you CANT complete the quest you just got because there simply aren't enough prey creatures around since that Rath moved in. Maybe it already scared away the other creature you have been tasked to hunt. Maybe it displaced another monster and now that one's causing problems and you'll have to choose which on to hunt to restore balance. Etc, etc...
There would also have to be several villages scattered across the map, each one with its own goals and problems. Maybe their fields or livestock are being raided by monsters. Maybe the dam they built disrupted the local environment enough to cause certain creatures to disperse and others to move in. These villages, and by extension the various villagers and agencies within them, will have to have their own motivations and opportunities for growth that will in turn generate quests. For example; say you got a quest early on to help clear out a section of forest of it's hostile creatures so that the village can plant a new field. Later you return to see that field up and running, but you get word from another nearby village that the monsters you displaced are causing problems for them. After dealing with that you receive an urgent quest from the first village! A huge monster has moved on to the area because the other creatures keeping it out are now gone thanks to you. You deal with it, only to find out that it was only there due to another villages overhunting of it's preferred prey. And so on and so on. Basically, EVERY SINGLE ACTION you take as the player, as well as the actions of the NPCs, will generate conflict withing the environment which will in turn generate quests for you to complete....
And finally we come to the players. Throughout your quests and unquested explorations, you'll gain experience and progress in researching the various creatures of the world. Documented behaviors, feeding grounds, pack territories, species ranges, breeding seasons, life cycles, strength and vulnerabilities, and more. Eventually it will get to the point that say, on one of your random explanations, you notice a large herd of migrating Aptonoths and are experienced enough to know that they are probably being followed by a Rath or other large wyverns. You haven't actually seen them yet, but you know their habits enough to know that they are probably nearby. You haven't received a quest to hunt them down, but you know you probably will if the migration passes to close to a village. You can choose to do nothing and hope for the best, preemptively hunt the following predators, attempt to alter the migration path to lead the herbivores and their predators away, thin the herd to make it less appealing to the predators, ect, all without ever receiving a quest and based solely on your experience thus far...
As for hunting, Id say a healthy mix of tracking, testing, and research would suffice. But while you are tracking down that problem monster and are hot on its trail, maybe YOU are being tracked by a different monster that cought your scent of came across YOUR tracks. Maybe while you are busy creeping through the bushes, trying to stay down wind and out of sight of your target as to not tip it off before you are ready, there is another creature doing the same to you. Maybe before you have the chance to spring your ambush, your stalker springs there's and now you have a completely different fight on your hands, one you might not be prepared for...
Maybe you fight a monster only to accidentally let it escape, only to be encountered later as a variant that uses new tactics based on how you fought it last. Maybe that variant developed a crippling fear of people and you never see it again as it avoid all control with people, but you feel it's effects as it displaces others in an attempt to stay clear of population centers. Maybe that variant instead developes a taste for human flesh and goes out of its way to hunt you or other NPCs down, causing even more problems and generating even more quests....
Honestly, at this point what I'm describing sounds nothing like a MH game and may well be better served as its own individual ip. Monster Hunter? Meh, more like Fantasy Ecology Balancer. There probably wouldn't (couldn't?) be much of a main storyline either, just the established villages vying for power, resources, and territory against each other and the monsters around them. I system where you choose which villages to help and which ones to harm would be fun, and you could add in a mechanic where if you choose not to help them the village will slowly die off sounds fun. Maybe I'm their desperation a village "delves too deep" and disturbs an elder dragon and by the time you get there to help the village is just gone, reduced to ash and timbers and now you have to hunt this incredibly powerful monster down without knowing anything about it before it can cause even more deviation...
Maybe the emergence of the elder is tied to a set time limit and after say, 50 hours of game play, it will wake up regardless and begin laying waste to everything you've worked so hard to achieve. Maybe you randomly stumble across it early on and manage to survive, causing the rest of the game to be about you preparing for it's arrival. Maybe your research leads you to another sleeping elder and you manage to orchestrate a turf war between them and either drive off or defeat the winner....
Maybe, just maybe, the game never truly ends. Villages and monsters coming and going constantly as the seasons change and disasters occur, all the while the player desperately tries to keep the balance intact as civilizations push out into the frontier and the frontier pushes back....
Idk, maybe it's too much, but it sounds fun to me at least....
Rise is just a glorified boss rush, getting rid of the hunting system is why I dropped it very early in.
5:36
Or, you know, you can look at monster shadow when he flying away, and judging by direction in which shadow moved you could actually guess what is monster’s destination is. But you only can do so after you have experienced hunting that monster enough times and also after you got accustomed to schematic map itself, so you basically need to watch and learn what are the place monster like to flee to most often + what are the places he actually able go to considering direction of his shadow while he was flying away.
I’d say all that is great play on actual ”hunting elements" even though you just can mark monster with paintball and it will be basically gps-tracked for you, lol
Brilliant video. Took all the words right out of my mouth, from the archaic paintballs being outdated to the overbearing scoutflies being a hindrance to World in multiple ways. And your proposed systems are almost exactly the solutions I've thought of.
I dont know, i mean yes, tracking the monster in the maps and learning where they would appear is an essential part of hunting but I think its more intrinsic for a player to learn a monster through fighting, learning the moveset and elemental weaknesses. Prepping potions, antidote, picking up endemics and other things for the hunt is more "hunting" to me because the essence of a hunt in my opinion is the preparation
You are correct man that's why I love the series
The preparation is practically absent in Monster Hunter Rise, is the issue
To be fair to Rise, I think searching for endemic life to use in hunts could be considered similar to tracking the monsters, at least in the sense that you can reliably learn their locations and search for specific ones by memory to aid in a particular strategy you might want to use. This can be skipped by using the Palamute's SNIFF IT OUT command, though.
I started playing Rise. And I disagree with the statement that going head straight at the monster is the way. Me and my team preffer to run around the map for first 10 minutes gathering buffs, items and other items that can be found on tge map. Just then when we feel like we got enough items we rush at the monster ad often arempting to stay more then one and by knowing where the monsters are we can predict when monster can be lured to each other to engage the territorial fight
You can do it, but you can also go straight to the monster and finish the quest rather easily without thoses extra buffs, in Rise at least, didn't get to Sunbreak yet to see how difficult it is
My general guess about the idea behind the name is that the name hunter was chosen because it helps to define the monsters.
Monster Slayer or Monster Fighter could be about actively malevolent creatures, such as in "Goblin Slayer" or about Warbeasts employed by some evil overlord and so on.
The name Hunter implies that you are going after a creature that simply acts according to its nature with no other goals than to stay alive and procreate. That the term monster denotes creatures of great strength and ability, but not sapience.
Granted, the challenge still lies in defeating the monsters, rather than tracking them down, but the idea is: You aren't meeting them on the battlefield. You stalk them in their natural environment and kill them to obtain ressources or stop them from affecting their environment in a way you disagree with.
Man I'd love a MH game that went really hard on the nature bits, like imagine seeing stuff like an Arzuros walking around with cubs n such
MHW is kinda done like that, but didn't make it by having each monster acting exactly the same every single time, and the player might as well just skip the hunting part by memorizing the whole script. There definitely should be some procedural AI to guide monster behavior but sadly we haven't seen any yet
Or Nargacuga cubs
I feel like what this is ignoring is the other half of hunting, yes the mechanics around locating the monster are rather weak but in the preparations for when you do find the monster? there's plenty of depth there in old and new MH which has really only advanced as the series has progressed. From gathering herbs and mushrooms to fishing to make stronger bombs, there is so much prep you need to do before you even step foot into a large monster hunt. Rise bringing it one step further with all the endemic life and spiribirds, where every hunt is asking you to do further prep before facing down the monster. Getting just the right item load-out for each monster is a pretty decent chunk of the game which I would argue is fitting of the hunting name
It's actually the opposite, with additions like the farm and even restocking there's not incentive to gather materials or planning, you just make a general item loadout with small modifications for different monster and that's all.
Like, why would I need to find Honey if I can get one or two stacks just in the farm?
@BazookaTiger37 Yeah, the farm is always something I zone in on in the beginning. Makes things alot easier. Hearing people talk about having to go out of there way so much for gathering makes me wonder if people just ignored the farm. :p
For tracking… at the beginning of the quest you could have someone like the handler say “we’ve located the monster near zone 8 and 9” or something like that, and it gets more specific the more research you get. Eventually you’ll just get icons.
I honestly think your heat map idea is a pretty good idea, but i do agree that there are flaws that could occur too. But then again that’s the same with every idea no matter how good it sounds.
Then again I also think alongside this there could be an encounter system for every time you engage with a monster you gain data on said monster and understand its behavior, abilities, elemental proficiencies etc. and this accumulates towards the archive page on said monster and letting the hunter understand the best ways to fight and slay the monster. And collecting enough materials from said monster allows one to understand what elements it’s weak to and weak points to target that improve with each encounter.
And by maxing out the research and observation data on each monster, the hunter gains tokens of some sort to apply to armor’s or weapons the hunter wants to make that grant an all around boost when fighting a certain species of monster like fanged beast or that uses the same element as the one you got the token from(but it’s efficacy could lessen if it’s a different species of monster).
And to top it all off the hunter could develop a reason to hunt small monsters besides meat and minor items. As from leveling the hunter’s understanding of the monster and it’s behavior; the hunter could understand what it preys on such as rathian’s hunting older aptonoth’s.
Thus by collecting enough materials on said monster and other items like that skunk endemic life, the hunter could craft spraying scents to attract the monster and make it come to a certain area. Though this only works when the research level of the monster is at a intermediate level.
I have an idea that sorta combines the track system and paintball system. A monster leaves tracks as it's moving (out of combat), and interacting with these tracks points you in the direction it is moving. You can then follow these tracks to whatever area the monster moved to (for flying monsters it would leave a special track that points in the direction it flew, or something) If you use a paintball, it leaves a special track that shows you where it is when you interact with it (either temporarily, but it leaves multiple as it runs so if you need you can follow another, or until the next time it runs away)
I think an extra thing that could be added to the monster info screen is the maps where it can be fought, and highlight areas where it has been seen in, so if you first find it in area 8, then it moves to area 7. After the hunt those areas will be noted as possible locations for subsequent hunts.
Man, i miss your streams. I see you've already reached khezu all on your own too. Hoping you'll start it up back some day
i hope to do some more soon! just had a very busy summer unfortunately
@@Oceaniz yeah, no pressure man. Do whatever's best and don't get burnt out.
@@Oceaniz I guess I should start praying that your schedule is going to be less bloated in the future.
I've thought about it before too and honestly I think this is probably the best idea for tracking a monster I've heard. I think for the first time you fight a monster it should tell you where they like to hang out or have been sighted in the quest description instead of having flavor text for the description (because I'll be honest I never read those anyway) and have tracks there to then show a heatmap that touches around 3-4 different zones at the beginning, but after the first quest it doesn't tell you where to look anymore since you now have a heatmap. I think after about 5-6 quests fighting the same monster you should have the heatmap be the size of a zone so it's a good pinpoint but not an exact icon right where they are. I also think you maaaayyyyybe could color the heatmaps different either based on the monster(s) you need to kill for the quest or colors based on the type of monster it is. Having 3 heatmaps but not knowing which monster is which would also be rough if they didn't actually spawn in regions where they would originally.
The first 10 seconds already killed me. "Ecocide" combined with the Kamura theme (or hunt complete theme?) really got me cracking.
Anyways, and Oceaniz vid about MH; this is going to be a treat. Lemme get my mug of coffee and settle in for a good time.
I really like your heat map idea. I'd actually like to expand on it a little. For one, I think it would be cool if Palamutes interacted with this system a little bit. Removing the green glow of the scoutflies would make tracks much harder to spot, but maybe the Palamute can point It's nose at nearby tracks to show you them. It would be super cute and flavorful, and it can also serve as an explanation for the heat maps. Your dog gets the scent, so it can narrow down the location of the monster and its tracks.
I'd also suggest a specific way for the heat maps to work. When you grab a track, a question mark icon with a number next to it will appear on your UI. Finding a set of tracks for a separate monster brings up another question mark icon. The number next to it is the order in which you discovered the set of tracks. The ? icons can be targeted by clicking in the joystick, just like targeting a monster in all the other games. The selected target will have it's heat map shown.
The icons will remain as question marks until you sight the monster. This means that tracks that you find won't ever tell you what monster they belong to, just the name of the track itself, like "old footprints," "old gashes," etc. This makes the player actually pay attention to the tracks they find. Say you're hunting a Rathalos. You find some footprints and the heat map leads you to more tracks. Then however, you find some "old scales" that are green instead of red. Any hunter that is paying attention will realize that the track set is that of a Rathian, and will deselect the ? icon and look for a different set.
This rewards the player for the level of monster knowledge that they have. For another example, both Diablos and Glavenus leave "old gashes" on walls. But most will be able to tell that a single slice means a Glavenus, and two slices means a Diablos. Particularly knowledgeable hunters might even be able to tell exactly what they are tracking just based on the shape of the footprint. Their reward naturally comes from the satisfaction of fast and efficient tracking, based entirely on their own knowledge. It would be both immersive and rewarding.
I think near endgame this system can still remain engaging as well. If you make it so that near endgame, all heat maps are shown at the start even before you gather a single track, you can remove some of the tedium. You still keep the icons as question marks until you spot the monster. Having access to the heatmaps however will allow skilled hunters to determine where to look before even leaving the camp. Since the heatmaps show general locations of where tracks are found, if you know where specific monsters generally go, you can narrow down which heatmap likely belongs to the monster you want based on the locations it's showing. For example, if you know that your monster never goes to area 6, you can rule out the heatmaps that shows that there are tracks there. This would hopefully be consistently fun and satisfying for hunters that really get to know their monsters and where they travel, and even for people that aren't as good at that type of map logic, starting with the heatmaps is still an advantage since they can immediately know where to start looking.
im really impressed by your idea and handling of its pros and cons
like we all do, you are confident that your idea is a good one but also talk about its main flaw and problems
respect from me for that and thumbs up for that
So actually in the 2nd gen there was something similar to what you said but it wasn’t for all monsters. The magazine “Hunting life” gave clues to what monster like tigrex kut ku and such did and were they liked to stay overall. The magazine said khezu lives in the caves of snowy mountains and swamp region. And khezu spawn is literally area 3 of artic ridge. But they gave up on this in later gens
After about 1000h in MH World i recently started a new save file with a friend of mine, and i got so used to having all the research levels on max that when i didnt 100% know the spawn location of a monster i usually knew a few zones they travel in and ran to those in search of it.
But most of the time over the many hunts on my main file i got a feel and knowledge of where the monster usually is, i agree it isn't really hunting in the sense of tracking a monster down or gaining knowledge through text but personally i feel like i as a player got better at tracking them down intuitivly through the many times i've hunted them and saw their different locations they flee to and so on, especially for nest and sleeping positions that always stay static.
i think theHunter mechanics would be the best, find footprints, figure out if they are older or newer, if they are older they give you the general areas where they probably went to (theHunter does this by showing a circle around the player on the map), and the newer footprints would give you the direction they went to (the next area basically), which would make it much more simple, as it wouldn't be as intrusive, and would lead straight to the point.
Also, make the user wear headphones and utilise sound: monster roars should be heard across the map, and you should be able to judge where they are based on that. They should roar: 50-90 seconds after the quest starts, in cases of turf wars, when they hunt small monsters, and randomly once in a while. This would make the player keep track of what roars each monster makes.
Make call devices to call the monster to go towards you if they are close enough in proximity. Not right to you but make them go to your direction. They should be craftable, and made from the materials you get from the monster, or heck make them upgradable, or just slightly difficult to get. The call devices lose their effectiveness after you start battling it, so you couldn't call it back when it leaves, you need to chase it. This gives some kind of progression to it, but would require huge maps of World, as Rise maps would be too small imo.
The monster of MH have evolved fighting capabilities, rather than kill prey/survive predators feats.
Therefore having to fight for the most part makes sense to me
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I think a blend of all of these things might be best.
The questboard can list map area numbers that the target monster is seen to frequent. (which will be the heatmap areas)
At the beginning of the hunt you send out a bird to scout for the monster.
In the meantime, you start your own journey, a rookie can use knowledge gathered from Info books on Monsters and the Region to find it, along with the suggested heatmaps and monster tracks that your palico/palamute can sniff and point out (to make glow visibly) to narrow it's location down, instead of having scoutflies clutter your vision (Can we train bugs that small, that well? Maybe it exists, I don’t know). Or, if you were unable to find it, until the bird comes back to update you on it’s scouting (ping your map, should be around 1 1/2 - 2 minutes).
Finally when the monster has been acquired, hit it with a special scent bomb (like a dung bomb) for the bird/palico/palamute to track for the rest of the hunt so that there is no more worry.
Ultimately, a seasoned hunter's advanced knowledge and intuition on the movements and habits of the target would prove to be the fastest way to intercept it and complete the hunt. Which I think would prove a hunter's progression.
I liked your ideias about this system, and i have something to add.
In adition to fiding tracks as a mechanic, you can also implement a new system for the monster beheviours, like if they are herbivours, what kind of plant do they eat, or if carnivour, what kind of creatures they like to hunt (Like Tigrex taste for Popo for exemple) which can right up give you areas to search for them without needing to mark on the map, making it reward your knowledge of the area and the location of small monsters, or even endemic life. By doing so, can make preparing for the hunt a more compeling thing, see, if you know that the Tigrex love Popo meat, atracting a Popo to a Tigrex hunting ground, could make the target monster vulnerable for attacks and traps while trying to eat its prey. Making you, the player, not the character, been rewarded by observation of monster behaviours and actually using that knowledge in gameplay, maybe making this a secret mechanic and giving more chances to gain rare monster parts at the end of the quest by doing so.
Edit: they did something like this in the Boaboa quest in Iceborne, but, since every MonHun game tries to expand on each other, i like to see this mechanic being explored for real, Wilds would be perfect for it
I definitely like world's tracking system over the "Here is the monster go kill it approach" that Rise takes. I do wish that they would incorporate a few other things though to make the game more immersive. Like bring back the Cold & Hot Drinks, the farm from the older games where you actually have to gather the items instead of just going through menu's. I also think that instead of having access to your ENTIRE inventory while on a quest that you could only choose to bring a few extra items alongside a gunner pouch. Some more environmental effects would be really cool as well, like if your on a quest and it starts to rain so all the monsters retreat to their caves so you'd have to go fight them in there. Monster Hunter Dos actually had a really cool mechanic with the breeding season where certain monsters would only show up during that time and some would be more aggressive. Also seeing some more monster diversity between the genders would be really cool. Like if female Anjanath had a differently shaped nose than the male ones or something. Just a couple ideas.
I've read people mentionning the buddies who could help you out to find monster tracks, which is a great idea imo. I also like your heatmap system, but i'd like if Capcom tried other more in-game systems to give you clues about the monster.
Like for instance, you could follow a large monster that is out of your league at the beginning of the game while it is hunting your actual target itself. This could work with visual clues, like for example if you see an Anjanath sniffing on the ground, looking like it's searching for prey, you try to hide from it and follow it to see if it can lead you to the Great Jagras you're looking for.
This way you could use monster interactions not only for fighting with turf wars but for tracking as well. We could also imagine a smaller monster later on that is escaping a larger one. You could find the larger monster by following the tracks of the smaller one backwards, but that would start to be a little convoluted x)
Great vid and great conversation to be had. Hopefully MH6 figures this out x)
As someone who started with World and never really had a problem with the extra visual noise, I thought the scoutflies were a really cool system. Being aimless at the start definitely sucked, but I think actually finding tracks and other signs of monster activity to hone in on its position fulfilled the fantasy of *hunting* and not just fighting monsters. So I think if they wanted a more hunting forward approach for the next game, they should expand on the best part of that system, the signs. Making more distinct footprints, claw marks, etc. so that we can get a semse of what types of monsters are in an area and making them frequent and readable enough that we can actually follow them without *needing* scoutflies (ideally they'd be optional or one of a variety of tracking aids you could prepare) would really drive home the feeling of actually searching for the monster instead wandering aimlessly or being led directly to it. Ideally, each monster would have it's own unique set of markings but reusing markings for similar monsters wouldn't be the worst thing. For example, nargacuga and barioth might use the same footprint but you'd know it was a barioth if you found sabertooth markings while tracking it. And perhaps the game could try to throw you off. Since rajang fangs might make similar markings, a map with nargacuga and rajang might look like it has a barioth instead to less experienced hunters
I think a good way to improve the research system you proposed would be two things:
1.) have monsters not always start at a research rank of 0, but some might be more or less researched to start.
2.) tie the base research level and gaining of research experience for a monster not just on fighting and tracking that same monster. Have you gain experience from time spent hunting in their biome, or hunting variants/non-variants of that monster, being at a higher hunter rank, etc.
The first pause I agree with. While I somewhat understand the sport, and keep in mind that 'somewhat' is an big overstatement for me by say 99 percent, it should be the last reason for hunting. If I want to eat something I'll legally go for it but only if it's overpopulated or not on the endangered list. Except for domesticated pets or what i consider creepy. I refuse to eat those rock fish or angler fish that one lady tried to eat alive as an unprofessional mukbang video. The sounds it makes terrify me. Basically i have standards when it comes to hunting and eating.
I remember that spot from the jagras quest at the start of MH world... Brings back memories
I actually really like this idea my only complaint is honestly personal I am legally blind so I kind of need the glowing particle effects to find my way around and I struggle reading the map layout because of my vision that is why I loved the scout flies in the world and ice born and now that I play in rise I have the guiding arrow turned on but I wish it was a little more pronounced especially in the sandy plains sometimes I still can’t see in there and wander around aimlessly but as I get the map memorized in the 3-D plane I have started to pick up routes from starting camp all the way to specific areas where monsters normally are such as the giant sandbox area and the watering hole I’m not sure what their areas are marked on the map but that’s where I find most monsters
Cool, but by the time you got enough tracks the monster has already moved. Personally I found the scoutflies to be the best iteration so far and find the "neck snapping" critique to be wildly over exaggerated
the "Hunteing" aspect was much more relevant in the older games
chameleos was my favorite monster because of that.
finding it felt more like a "hunt" than with any other monster, because you really had to observe the Environment with eyes AND ears
I think your solution is perfect as is! It enhances the hunting aspect at the beginning when the fun of exploration is one of the main hooks. And as you repeatedly hunt a specific monster it makes sense that eventually you would be able to pin point the monster location right away by simply knowing its habitat. At that point in the game your not looking to keep exploring you just want to get to your target asap so it does its purpose.
But more importantly is you earned that feature, it wasn't just automatically shoved in your face, you earn the instant local marker by tracking and fighting the monster repeatedly. It will feel earned and does exactly what you need, get you to the monster your grinding for parts without wasting time wandering around the 2-3 zones where you know the monster usually starts in.
I love the idea you suggested, and the late game can be explained as your hunter becoming more and more experienced.
I can't wait for your ecology documentaries on both the kamura region and the elghoto kingdom
The Elgato Kingdom is just a large tiaga forest with a giant medieval castle in it
I think you have an excellent idea here. To address the researching about Master Rank and such, I had an idea that you could possibly do additional Master Rank research in that case. With the addition of the camera, let's say there's a recording feature implemented in the future, or even just the camera is fine. You can record scenes of Master Rank monster behaviors, deviations in their attack patterns, new patterns, more extreme forms of ailments the monsters can cause, etc. Furthermore, you can record environmental things as well, such as the behavior of other monsters in the area when your target is around (in the case of Deviljho or some other invasive species that doesn't belong to a locale).
All of these can be compiled, and, if you're like me and have a sudden disparity in funds between HR 70 to HR 300, this optional research can be sold to line your pockets, as well as, in-universe, assist the Guild. In addition to this, you can even have bonus content unlocked from doing this optional research, like extra quests that have more unique cat and mouse dynamics in them or something that really tests your monster knowledge, with cosmetic and unique layered weapon rewards.
Really good video, but I have to say that in World, you can actually hunt mosters without the guide-flies once you know the monster you're hunting and the habitat where it lives; for example, if you want to hunt a Gran Jagras, you know where his nest is in the Ancient Forest; so, you can go there and wait for it. If we want to hunt a more roaming monster that doesn't return to its nest until it's injuried, like Anjanath for example, if you know that it hunts primarily Aptonoth, you can just go where the Aptonoths are. Plus, in World, all of the monsters roam precise areas of the biome they inabithat. Last thing, but this could be just my impression, i've never finded the guide-flies obnoxious or screen filling so much like you stated. That doesn't make this video less than amazing of course and sorry if my english isn't very good. Keep up your work Oceaniz
The biggest thing I can say is, its a video game. Even in your Khezu example by just saying it lives in Caves gave 2 options in that map. You check both and by then you should have seen it. Rise is designed in a way where you are almost always above the usable maps, so you can see a lot of ground. Same with old games, monster could move between at most like 4 zones in their wandering and would loop. Also spawn zones tended to be set, different species occasionally had different ones but once you used a food skill and saw it at the start that stayed fairly consistent given the primitive tech those games ran on.
Sounds like they just need to refine World's attempt. Reduce the scoutflies (or eliminate them and just make interactables glow like Rise does) Set up a defined system of unlocks for research. Like you said levels affecting how quickly the Heatmap focuses on the target, but also doling out the Hitzone, Weakness, Ailments, Material info a little more. I think having the exact hitzone data is something that should only be left to 100% researched monster, not immediately after the first hunt. But elemental weakness could maybe start with a vague star system like World and roll into a specific number system later, same with Ailment data. Parts I think they did fine, hiding the actual part name until you obtain it but showing it can be gotten certain ways but not the in depth specifics until obtained.
At least from the ground up on a new game going into the flavor text knowing they would be designing to give info about locales I don't think would add to their workload. They already make flavor text for every monster and quest, they would just have a focus now.
You didn't even need paintballs after some time since you could just watch where the monster was going to find out which room it's going to
Except for chameleos that invisible piece of s***
i think the best aproach for new players and late game is a rework of the world system, remove the particle effect and the neck snap from the scout flies, essentially have them be a blacklight that just lights up the tracks and trails monsters leave behind like they already do but without the particle clutter, and then implement more tracks depending on terrain, snow already leaves a trail when you walk through it so prints should be easier to follow in snowy terrain, mud monsters could leave a trail of mud etc, this breaks the rules of the challenge but maybe add some tree breaking/branches snapping tracks for flying monsters, and then implement the heatmap idea until youve gotten enough research to actually display their icons
I always use Psychoserum/Wave at the balloonman/Open MH Database anyways to locate the monster... Because that's how I like to play..
Or I can just not use those and try to immerse myself.. Which can be fun 1 or 3 hunts but if you're grinding which is the main catch of this game can become annoying REAAAALLY FAST...
People need to be reminded as well that the guild is improving in terms of technology and that includes monster's knowledge, tracking them and even locating them that's reflected to how detailed the hunter notes is...
Here' the catch:
You are not alone in the field during a quest.. There's a bunch of other invisible people/helper that are just on standby waiting for your hunter to finish the hunt, assists you when you cart... Because the guild is already advanced... I don't know if they can go back yo being primitive and such but imho that would be a terrible idea... So it makes sense that currently tracking monsters will not be really hard, and it never was thanks to Psychoserum..
For the finding the monster part, I just used Tigrex armor set which detects any existing monster on the area
No need for paintballs or roaming around 😊
I hate the visual polution of the flies in world, but I like the idea of researching a monster before engaging.
I think one of the many things that set monhun apart from the competition are the systematic elements: your hunter has hunger represented by stamina, weapons dull after use, older games had the environmental hazards of heat and cold, etc and I think they could make dynamic systems for hunting...
For example, having a monster track just appear in specific places is just a scripted event, but having the monsters actually leave tracks as they move creates a dynamic system that would change from quest to quest. Maybe a random Khezu lost a turf war in it's cave and its now its roaming somwhere it normally wouldn't, leaving khezu tracks in strange places.
I would also love to be able to set up an ambush for the monster, maybe killing a kelbi and dragging its body somewhere to use as bait and lure big monsters to where you want to fight them, setting up traps before the fight even starts.
But I think the heat maps alone would be ideal, it wouldn't be too much work and wouldn't require too much time from the players to find their prey
True that MH could always have expanded on hunting aspects. But, due to popular demand, CAPCOM did the opposite since the original MH games. They did cut down and trivialized many aspects other than combat. And what we got in MHW in terms of hunting aspects is just window dressing.
I played Monster Hunter game since the original and has been a huge fan since Freedom Unite and when World was announced I was very skeptical because of how different it is from any of the previous game and any extreme change in an established franchise is always scary but after playing it at release I realize MHW was the MH game of my dream
It is not perfect and it does lose some of the handheld series charm and quirk but overall it is just so good that I consider it as one of my fav games of all time
edit: 12:30 Mod makes MHW so much better, it fix the yanking scoutflies camera and adjust their brightness or remove them completely but yea the base game scoutflies system is very flawed. And no, once you played enough scoutflies become less and less relevant, you learn more about where the enemies active area are and you go there directly while collecting track along the way so it is a matter of which one is faster, so yes you do get better at finding out the monster location through learning their habit and following their track cuz there is old and new track so if they are nearby you can guess. The mark is created by the monster, when they walk or interact with the world or do idle animation so it isn't random at all. I played without scoutflies for so long and I know where to find the sign of monster without them, each monster have different habit and location where they leave marks and when you know where to look they are quite obvious even without the highlight so it does add a layer on top of just knowing their general location or range of activity.
That said it is true that without the highlight they are a bit hard to see because they are not designed to be found without it and when there is a highlight they are too eyecatching and quite distracting. All in all MHW failed to find the balance of being tedium and overly handholding the player, I mean imagine if MHW is like Red Dead or older game where you have to slowly gather item and use bugnet to catch individual bugs which is the opposite to the more streamline system we have now. Convenient and fun VS realistic mechanic has always been difficult to balance and they could do better or at least give the player more option without using mod.
I hope they can improve this in MHW2 / MH7. Anyway although I don't disagree with you completely I think you are pushing it a bit too much
To add to this, we could have your pet owl have a secondary heat map. As you train your owl by feeding it monster parts and tracks, it'll hover over where it can see the monster. You'll know where it is visible from the air, but not necessarily exactly there. You can overlap that yellow owl heatmap with the red heatmap to narrow down where the monster might be.
I would like more hunting, however most monster hunter fans would not
Rise missed the mark so much on the tracking aspect. You have a dog that can sniff the trail as you go across the possible locations, but the most interesting way would be to just climb a higher place and use the vantage point to see where the monster is.
Another good idea would be utilizing sound. Monsters would roar more as they either attack prey or fight each other, and game (hopefully) proper stereo sound would point your ears in the proper direction.
I think a cool way to unite the combat part of the gameplay and your improved research notes system is to also include combat tips for the monster within the notes. I think it should go as far as to show you how to dodge certain attacks and explaining ways you can take advantage of certain openings. This way the system you suggested could still be interesting after the first few hunts. Once you already know how to find the monster your mind will start to focus more on the combat aspects of the game.
This was likely because I truly dove DEEP into World and am normally the "encyclopedia of game knowledge for the thing we're playing right now" in my friend group, but I was the person that knew:
"Ah yes, [X monster], they spawn in this location, follow this route throughout the map, and by this time in the quest will probably be around here, except in THIS specific event quest, where they actually spawn here, and the most efficient way to get to them is to travel to zone..."
So, when the video got to how it was handled in World, it felt like I experienced a totally different game from "bugs show you where the guy is," because at a certain point, I had done enough bug scooping to be able to completely ignore that. And since my friends hadn't, I could be the mentor and say, "Yes, we'll be spawning at this camp and heading in this direction to reach it." I felt like a hunter because my experience and mental bookkeeping allowed me to feel like one, not because the game encouraged me to, and that's a shame.
As someone who constantly gets reccommended MH games to satisfy my desire to hunt monsters, but who doesnt find them fun because they aren't a 1 hour build up to a 10 second fight, does anyone here have any reccommendations?
I think Evolve actually had a great idea for immersive hunting. Have birds fly up in the sky which would give away the monster's location should the Monster trigger it. We could have the environment be influenced by the monster to give away it's location both in the map in the red circle shown in the video, and visually by either having a pack of Aptonoth running away from a certain location or something like that.
Welp, there's a reason why it's not considered as a simulation game but an action rpg. 😂
Ok i'm seeing a way to fix the issue of new players not reading the quest description: Cohoot but instead of instantly showing everything, you can use it 1-2 times during a hunt to pinpoint the monsters location for a certain time on the map. (it would also make sense with the cohoot cause c'mon let the poor bird rest sometime!) another issue i could see tho is deterring new players of even trying the game. For example one of my friends doesnt like MH cause its 50% running around and 50% fighting atm, and most people just enjoy the fighting part a lot more
“A domesticated particles effect” kkkkkkkkk
I like this idea and wish these would be implemented, with that fade of relevance. That was a well thought out solution to both making the hunting more prevalent early on, and how fading it to the background could also be an ingame milestone. low rank starts out blank or large heat map, high rank starts out with a middling sized heat map and finishes with them being just on the map by the time you get to master rank, having your urgent quests be each time it tightens up.
I think that the system you described is fine, I’d like to propose some small tweaks though. Firstly, I’d like to propose making the research center be able to level up as the game goes on, enabling you to reduce the amount of grinding you need to do to learn about monsters in tandem to your progression.
Secondly, I’d like it if there were more ways to activate the hotmaps than just finding a footprint.
Say for example you need a total of ten footprints to know exactly where a monster is, even on your first hunt. I’d like to propose two ways to progress the hotmaps besides just finding footprints. For this example, let’s use red khezu, the subspecies of khezu.
I think that for subspecies and other similar monsters (the great raptors, for example), hunting related monsters would give progress to others in the same group. Say you had hunted enough regular khezu to start with two footprints worth of progress, you’d have enough progress with red khezu to start with one.
Additionally, I’d like to see the return of the monster books, though maybe the method for acquiring them would need to change. Either way, I’d like the books on each monster type to give you a footprints worth of progress on all monsters of that type, such as all flying wyverns for the flying wyvern book. Maybe also add specific books for each monster, such as a khezu book that’d give you an additional footprint.
I know this would probably be too much effort to be feasible, but I like it when research is also a part of preparation, and I think this would help aid that feeling.
One idea I think might help with reducing aimless wandering and conveying the feeling of an actual hunt could be to have "Tracking Quests" of a sort.
In these quests, you wouldn't encounter any large monsters; instead, your objective would be to find and investigate traces of the target monster on the map. There would be at least one trace in each area the target monster frequents on said map. The idea is that before the player actually faces a monster, they should have an idea of where to find it, where it might go to eat or sleep, and some of the attacks/ailments it will use. Said quests could also be a way for players to explore and learn the maps with relatively little pressure. Competing a tracking quest grants access to more-traditional hunting quests for that monster in that respective location.
One flaw with this design is that it could get repetitive having to do a tracking quest for each large monster species in the game, especially those that can found in multiple locales. For obvious reasons, there would be no tracking quests for arenas/single-area-locations or sieges (or any monster only encountered in them), and invaders would only have tracking quests on maps where there's an actual quest to hunt them.
Well capcom was smart about this. They didn't name it Hunting Simulator.
It's just a game about a monster hunter guy or girl in some fantasy world.
3:24 Die Kommentarsektion ist nun Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
Oceaniz being german an interesting revelation😅
I like the system you proposed. And I even have a workaround for the flaw of it getting repetitive/being too labour-intensive for casual players.
You make it toggleable.
In the tutorial of the game you give a small pop-up saying "so here's the steps on how to hunt a monster if you want to explore the ecosystem we built. If you're just here for the combat untick this box (you can do so at any point in the hub world) and we will always display the monsters position on the minimap.
Now of course this also isn't a perfect solution. "But if I decide I want it back after a while but have never picked up any monster tracks?" I guess you could still record the data in the background and assume an additional point bonus per quest to add on top for the ecology meter.
Dunno. Cool idea regardless, I'd love to see it :)
The problem with the drip fed system is that anyone who would want to know approximately where a monster is prehunt, would already clue in by the time they unlock it in your research system.
I know where to find nearly every monster on nearly any map. Puki puki hangs out in the north, Legiana stays to the upper sections of the highlands, barroth makes rounds through the center desert canyons, so on and so forth.
So I do agree that this mechanic would be self destructive. However it would be a fantastic addition to the identity of Monster Hunter.
I like the idea of unlocking information about the monster as you fight them, but I want it to be more I guess realistic. Imagine if you had to use a specific element against a monster to learn its weakness to that element, or to a specific damage type, blunt cutting or ammo. At the end of a hunt you can show a nice infographic chart showing all the stuff you learned and as you fight and directly learn more about the monster it fills out. If that takes too long or is too tedious, you could even learn information about it from people you hunt with, say youre a raw blademaster and you hunted with a gunner using ice ammo, you learn the monster ammo hitzones and ice hitzones from them. If you wanna get really weird with it, each hitzone and weakness could have a lvl that initially gives it a star rating and progresses to learning the numerical hitzone value eventually. I think its more engaging than just filling up a bar though that could have a place too for tracking or little journal excerpts about ways to track them.
Just got a little further in the video and I think the heatmaps are a great idea. You could even have it make sense within the world in the form of rumors or sightings from whoever commissioned the quest.
I dont think the self destructiveness is really an issue since you want the first 3 or so hunts to be memorable, atmospheric, and educational about the monster and its ecology. But after youve fought them 10 times you just want the fight itself and the materials. It gets less intrusive as youd want it to
Next video: How Final Fantasy games don't simulate a final fantasy
Jacob's ladder
Hunting for Sport is indeed cruel. But we’re not the first or the last animal that will engage in such. Plus if anything, it raises your skill level.
And I personally believe hunting for sport is leagues better than whatever the farming industry is doing to animals.
If you're hunting to get meat/resources from an animal, that's not hunting for sport.
@@WanOlDan Yeah, I know. Cats can kill a bird in your backyard and just leave it there to rot.
i think some teritorial monster like rathalos, anjanath, zinogre, etc (the apex predator on the ecosystem) roar more frequently so tthe hunter know what monster is in the are if they remember the sound, and maybe to make it even more fun, make the monster actually sometimes follow the hunter's tracks when visiting the hunter's previously visited area and even prepare ambush, so sometimes you hear some rustling behind and when turned around there is a a green narga behind a fallen tree ready to pounce on you
Having a big zone highlighted instead of the precise location was actually used in earlier generations with chameleos for example
I'd honestly be so bold as make monster behavior during fights and outside of them like Shadow of Mordor did. You try to kill an orc with an arrow and then you just find out he enrages if you use a bow, and it's shown to you with a message somewhere in the screen. The same could be added to MH, you hit a monster with what is usually enough to poison them and it isn't poisoned? You get a small pop-up somewhere telling you "You learned that this monster has poison resistance" Same for something like Sonic bombs or traps shenanigans (Rajang, nargacuga, deviljho, for example)