Motorcycle Riders - You Accelerate Too Early
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Do pro motorcycle riders actually roll the throttle throughout the corners? Or do they have a neutral phase in corners?
Should we "always be on the throttle or on the brakes"?
Lets look at pro racers ride and see how they go through corners. 
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Fantastic video Mike! I love all the "mythbusting" that's taking place on RUclips lately!
"Either be on the throttle or on the brakes" still correct. No one meant that you have to be either 100% on the throttle or 100% on the brakes.
constant throttle phase is still a throttle input. 🙂
great video.🤟
It's fair to say it should be done away with though considering you had to explain it at all, there are a staggering amount of people that will skip right past that thought and straight to "SOUNDS COOL, WIDE OPEN THROTTLE WEEEEEWW!!!!"
This is a good point, without maintenance throttle you're technically engine braking, which is still braking, and you want to maintain speed so maximum turning force/grip can be applied and you aren't shearing the tire patch. Same goes with cars and karts. I like to think of it like a dimmer switch on a lightbulb, you're constantly dimming between throttle/acceleration, cornering, and braking. You have to "dim" one before turning up another.
Always nice to see you Mike, Keep it Up! 👍👍
*Ps. Your supermoto journey would be great to share as a series, no need of fancy editing.
Just some raw footage and a small ''today's'' story!
Ride Safe dude see ya!
I'd watch this too.
The phrase isn’t misleading, it means you never let the bike coast. Always give a bit of throttle but not enough you accelerate
Thank you so much. I've been riding since I was 15 back in 1968, and I'm still learning! It seemed like every new bike I've had kept getting heavier and heavier. So I went smaller and got a KTM 690 SMC-r in 2020. It's most fun Moto bike I've ever ridden. Thanks again
Part 3 of moto history! Always enjoy your work Mike - best of luck on the track
Such awesome teaching. So happy when i see Mikes video pop up
Great content as always Mike. Very timely to. I ride offroad, mainly cross country, some mx but have also spent plenty of time on road bikes. Yesterday whilsts flat tracking/ natural terrain mx riding there were a couple of flat turns on the track that could only be ridden at constant throttle for what seemed like a long way around the turn. One turn had formed a berm at the exit but if you tried to accelerate before that you just lost traction.
great tips. I always thought the phrase "Either be on the throttle or on the brakes" was more pointed at riders coasting before getting to the braking point. I do the think the phrase is misleading. You make a great point, there is going to be turns where you can't be on the throttle immediately after hitting an apex. Theres a turn ( 3-4-5-6) at cota that if you throttle after apex, you will blow the next one.
I really do think tips like these help a lot, I've recently started doing supermoto trackdays, its really fun! Hoping to see more tip-based videos of yours!
Great video!
This is even true with short corners with motogymkhana, (be it with raised idle speed, so there's still a tiny amount of "throttle".)
I also practice gymkhana with the MTB were you really get audible feedback of the front tire squeeling under full lean, or with trail braking.
So nice to see another video of yours buddy !!! 🤩🤩🤩
Great advice. Works on the road too. Especially in wet conditions.
another amazing video! completely agree with you. The best thing I have learned in the last two year is to wait, let the bike turn completely and then open up the throttle!
YCRS school is phenomenal. Looking forward to going back. Kyle and Chris are great.
This may be a bit nitpicky but: "On the throttle" for me means that you dont have the throttle closed fully, it does not mean accelerating. If you want to hold your speed, you have to have the throtte a bit open, otherwise you start to engine brake. So in other words, even when you open the throttle wide a second later now, you are still always on the throttle.
Thanks a lot for this good channel Sir 🙂 , and greetings from France .
Great video! Funny how it works - I knew about slowest point of the corner, but wasn’t sure I understand it fully... Tony’s reference about coffee break suddenly make me realize it (slowest point) a bit better ✊ (now I need to get to a track day...)
I have learned so much from you 🙌
When will we get to see some supermoto content again. You inspired me and I've been riding supermoto for a year now and I love it!
Thank you my brother!💌 Respect
thanks a lot for your guides!
Was actually already doing that but didn't realize it great freaking video
Your awesome thanks for sharing your insights on technique I really like the analysis and video examples anyone who rides can learn something or atleast have validation that what they do is right
Great episode
Great video. Thanks dude
ALways great advice dude!
When you go neutral throttle on the corner you can feel the suspention working as it is supposed to. For me this is the way of balancing the susp trail, taking it to the point to where it can handle another accel or deccel. I am no pro or even close tho. Just sharing... It is always refreshing to watch your engineering approach to riding Mike
Thanks Mike sir..🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for the advice …
Cool. I'll try this today on my way grocery shopping
Increasing speed(applying more throttle) is the main way to reduce lean angle. Theoretically you could reduce lean angle just by tightening your steering angle, but it would be weird and slow.
In Motogymkhana we learn this concept early on because we make turns at maximum steering angle(full lock), so the only way to get out of the rotation(reduce lean angle) is to add throttle, since we can't turn tighter.
Increasing speed while maintaining the same corner radius will require more lean angle.
Decreasing speed while maintaining lean angle will reduce the corner radius.
It's physics.
I think it depends on whether you're on a "point and shoot" kinda bike or one that's made for corner speed and edge grip.
The last cone track...kinda like a mini..isleofman(roadcondition wise😃)
Funnily enough I realised this last weekend - my impatience in the corner was causing me to run wide on exit due to cracking the throttle too early in the corner. I found that if I left the throttle closed a second longer, I could get the bike fully turned and then open the throttle fully much earlier. This also made me realise I could trail brake deeper into the corner, and leave my braking till later. It saved me seconds!
It's no good being early on the power if you can't open the throttle fully!
My first thought seeing the title "wym I'm going full throttle to fast" then after seeing the video "isn't common knowledge that you're basically always supposed brake before the turn maintain speed in the turn and accelerate out of the turn" like that's legit course material to get your motorcycle permit
Love you!!!!
0:14 - its not rolling it constantly to full throttle.. it's not to close it again after you just opened you throttle.
and 0:05 doesn't necessarily mean not to coast. you can both be on the gas and not be accelerating. you can be on the gas then wait for your reference point/s to go full throttle
Love that beard. Looks amazing.
Sick. I do this stuff instinctively... though I'm actually not all that fast.
we need the old supermoto videos where you "vlog" the races and the day at the track
Nice! This is similar to what Simon Crafer said on his youtube channel. Y\ou dont want to be the first to get back on the throttle after a corner. "You want to be the first to get to full throttle."
What happened to the Husky FS450? Did you change the triple from PZ5 Cobra to Xtrig ROC?
Great advice for the track but if you're riding mountain roads, I myself am continuously on the throttle Up hill that is.
Otherwise you'll just scrub off way too much speed, Is the engine itself is my brakes going up hill. As for downhill I'm certainly not as fast I've been trying to use the engine downhill and stay off the brakesBut some of these roads I ride are very steep, Remember your bike is twice as fast down ill as it is up.
Why not show the braking telemetry?
Bro is yamaha is going to V4 in motoGP ?
Love from India..💕💕💕💕
Yeah, I think Keith's phrase about constantly rolling on the throttle in the corner is outright destructive, and made a lot of inexperienced people crash on the roads.
I agree with most things mike says, but this is wrong ish.
first, supermoto and sport bikes do not compare in this way, they ride completely differently. You listed 2 corners, out of the entire track, that he hesitated on and you’re riding 2 up. he has more grip on the rear which means he can’t rotate as much out of the corner.
Most corners on a sport bike should be squared off, it’s more beneficial to tell novice riders to brake later, go deeper in the corner, then use the throttle to point you at the exit because it is way faster and is more common then the corners that won’t help on.
there will always be a slight neutral point before accelerating, but telling people to hold this neutral point will only cause confusion and make people slower overall. I think people should experiment with different lines and different techniques, but most people hear advice like this and only do this, which will make them slower, not faster.
Fun fun fun.
It's not neutral, it's enough throttle to maintain that speed. Notice his MPH isn''t dropping. If he was neutral the speed would still be falling off. He's maintaining that MPH with a bit of throttle. Just not WOT. Just a bit to settle the ass end down. Neutral is a bad word to use if you're new to track riding. YOu don't want to be "neutral". Don't have the clutch pulled in, in the middle of a corner. Other than that it's a great vid.
The time between full throttle and fully loaded brakes principles hasn’t changed in decades as you always have one point on each tight corner where those simply can’t happen so nothing new here to learn. As an ex Australian Superbike racer who has also competed in a couple of WSB events from the mid 90’s. This was practiced before my time and still used today. However, I’m sure some will learn something. Great job. 👍😎🇦🇺
I have grip so I open 50% throttle at 50 degree lean angle on a 200hp bike
You are "on the throttle" with maintenance throttle. You're settling the bike and getting ready for the point where you can pick the bike up and add more throttle.
Thanks Mike!
But I'm the turtle, I couldn't notice the "open-close-neutral-open" throttle during the exposition :(
moto gp riders drift rear tyre through corners?
Interesting but you can watch onboard video after video of Rossi, Marquez, etc.. getting on the gas early. Personally my lap times go down the earlier I get on it. When I'm lazy or out of practice I'm on gas later with crap times.
Both of them have a clear neutral phase in corners as well.
@@MikeonBikes yeah Simon Crafar even throws his right hand up in the air while coaching. I'm just saying if you are past the paint and aren't on the gas you are probably late in most corners.
@@archiewilson4943 where does he coach ??
@@robustsatsang2456 Europe
@@archiewilson4943 which country i mean
❤
Smooth is fast again
Oh how I wish this was my problem…
I Have an 05 R6, and the pickup is a little snatchy, so I am always trying to feel my way onto the throttle, and if I am too tentative end up late on my throttle pickup.
Problem is the bike, which should fit you not the other way around, to a certain extent.
So given throttle free play is set right, have it remapped since 05 r6-s were FI'd if I recall.
@@ThaSideWeed Yeah, I am a Casual track-day rider, and getting a Power commander and going the full remap is probably more investment than I am ready to make, The Throttle play is well adjusted, but there is some hesitancy in the delivery on these old Fuel Injected R6’s (03-05)
So Riding around the problem is where I am at utill/If I decide to invest more in the exercise (The Bike is my Old Daily Ride but at over 120,000 kms on the clock she is a little tired).
I think the art there is not going totally 0 on the throttle. A lot of bikes can end up snappy especially at higher RPMs.
Imagine you're on the highway, if you let go of the throttle you slow down. If you twist it you accelerate, but if you hold power on you maintain speed.
You adjust speed coming into the corner, but you should maintain a small amount of throttle into the corner, the constant throttle in conjunction with clutch feathering or trail braking will help control your entry speed without snapping throttle on and off.
@@Dangerwiggles Yeah… Try it.
Try to always keep a little bit of positive throttle all the way through your breaking and into the roll-on point.
I have done it before, consciously keeping a slight positive throttle without pushing the bike wide on entry. (On the Omeo to Mita Mita road for those in Australia interested in one of the best most unrelenting pieces of twisty road you will find) It is absolutely Exhausting, the concentration and control required is a nuts, and on the Race track where you are using really hard breaking… It isn’t going to happen.
@@javm2825 it definitely can get exhausting, you know what you're experiencing better than we do! I just noticed when I'm not holding the throttle right at that line of on / off most bikes get really snappy. Basically off totally when braking then a slight roll into 1% or slightly greater at the throw in depending on if trail braking or maintaining speed. Too much to think about sometimes.
Only 30 seconds in but If you’re accelerating doesn’t the bike want to stand up and go straight, same for braking ?
I always come too early
It's not all I do to early...
👏
More balance means eventually more speed.
I was going to say something along the lines of you can't be that literal about "always on throttle or brakes" since maintaining max safe speed in a corner usually means holding the throttle not maxing it out.... but the comments are making me believe that's not as obvious of a thought as I thought it was... only thing you shouldn't do in on a race track ever is coast. Use your brake to quickly get down to safe entry speed then hold it till you end the curve where you full throttle again.
Those that can do. Those that can’t talk about it.
Mines open as I'm opening my shed
constant throttle is still throttle... i think the saying means don't coast lol
22 seconds in. Thank god I never got any of that shit advice lol. Here’s what I got from my track instructor. You can add throttle, or you can add lean angle, but not both. (‘At the same time’ was implied)
Do I, do I though 🤔🏍
Finally 😢😢🎉🎉🎉🎉
No I don't
Idk about other people but accelerating through a turn too early is an easy way to lowside 💁♂️ I don't do it just because of that fact alone lol it's scary, and breaking you're crazy if you're hitting the break in a turn unless you actually need to do it and are doing it softly
Two imaginary bikes, 1 starts to twist earlier, 2 waits later in order to catch the moment when twisting will evolve faster to full gas? Bike 1 will have gained advantage up to that moment, and can't be beaten in faster arrival at full gas?
What am I comprehending wrong?
I guess on dirt everything is different.
No I dont
Most accelerate too hard on water too.
he is on the gas, just not full gas. you don't want coasting.
one point might be important to say.
It doesn't matter who hits the gas first, but whoever hits the full gas first is faster.
The statement "must be accelerating or decelerating all the time" is not actually wrong. One must take in to account that when you are in steady state cornering phase, you max out your lateral acceleration. At this time your speedo cant go up or down. But you ARE still accelerating. If the track were a perfect circle.. You'd be in constant peak acceleration with the speedo reading staying the same.
Ofcourse, the shape of the corners and the amount of power you have, dictate the emphasis. Moto3 take very different lines to MotoGP. So there maybe an oversight or over generalization in this video.
That's just being pedantic, tbh. Lateral acceleration has nothing to do with what the guy is talking about here and I'm pretty sure you know that as well.
@@Krosis_ It has everything to do with it. The transition from straightline deceleration to lateral, and from lateral to acceleration in exit is what separates the good riders from the very good. Same goes for driving a car fast.
The specific corner & line based on bike will impact the length of the neutral phase of a corner. Some corners have a brief neutral phase.
You can observe MotoGP riders having a neutral phase in many corners. Have a look at onboard footage.
If your video had been uploaded 3 months earlier,
if I had understood the video, would I have had an accident? Ha ha ha ha ha
Great video, what a lousy title though lol
Its not who gets on the gas first ... its who gets on FULL gas first .... 👍
Champ U online course (which is excellent BTW) describes it as "hold the brakes for ten feet longer than you normally would" in a corner.
I enjoy your videos. Very instructive. But in my opinion, its really all in feel. And until you get comfortable with your bike, and how is moves under your feet in what ever situation. That takes time. You can pump all the info you want into someone, but when it comes to them riding people tend to always be thinking of what to do next, rather than enjoying the ride. You will NEVER find a fast champion class rider, that doesn't have a passion for riding.
"because the pros do it" is wrong, because it is the fastest way around the race track is correct.
Mike for President ;)
Well if you go on forums you tend to meet either pro racers or race instructors/techs, and then see some randos who never raced or even did a track day in their life criticizing those guys or even try to “school” them with “facts” that they either googled or was mentioned by their favorite youtuber.. even now I bet some dum dum is gonna comment in this video to try and rationalize that phrase or even say you’re wrong..
Professional??? Who? 🤭🤣🤣🤣🤡🌎
Your empirical data and argument are unsophisticated/fallacious and you confuse being on the gas with accelerating. Maybe another revision is needed here?