Fyi to anyone reading, but input buffering skills like demonstrated with vestige is something every class can benefit from. You just have to make sure you're not holding the move key when you buffer a skill, since the movement will take priority over the skill and there can be a delay in the second skill casting
TLDR: the 60/40 crit/swift stat variation (two swift rings) with Hallucination can in many case allow you to be overall most consistent or even have higher DPS if this is a lower investment alt class (especially if you are just using event gems and don't plan to upgrade further). This was just in my testing and practice within raids and the results that I found. If this is an alt class for anyone that is watching, I highly, highly, highly recommend trying out the 60/40 stat variant (two swift rings). This alleviates a few issues that you can have without investment. In the full crit variation (using event CD gems on Guillotine/RS) you are entirely reliant on hitting C/J for you to properly cycle into soul snatch mode. You CAN hit it without it but it's incredibly tight and almost any amount of time in hesitation in using your Guillotine/RS combo on the second round will lead to you needing to use Vestige to get into it (either enhanced or not) which can be both clunky and annoying with your CD's on the second rotation cycle. (in case anyone is wondering, yes you can and should use the 413 skill build if you like that one more. The two skill builds (413 and 422) are entirely your choice based on preferences of skills but of course with the 413 being superior in either situation) If you got the 60/40 route (with Hallu), you are: 1) You make up for your difference in CD gems needed giving you some breathing room both if you hit C/J or not to use your Guillotine/RS combo to cycle into Soul Snatch. Also if you happen to miss any skills or get knocked out of harvest for example, things come up much faster allowing for your mistakes to not be as painful 2) If you go 5x3 (adren 3) you are very very close to crit cap with Hallu so you take a hit in larger hit DPS especially if you have a crit syn on your team so you CAN go Nightmare with that, or you can actually just go 50/50 crit/swift and that will remove some crit so that you can utilize other synergies. If you got 5x3+1 (Adren 1) and Hallu then you are in the 85% range for crit which is perfect for optimal use. I find that I quite often can out dps the Full Crit players (especially event gem ones) just do to them not fully utilizing their Soul Snatch form and cycling through it for CD returns. This in turn both lowers the ceiling by not too much, but greatly lowers the floor IMO in terms of DPS allowing you to be more consistent overall. Until you are able to get 9 or 10 CD gems it's just too tight for most players especially if you either don't have Leg C/J and/or don't hit it as often, or your RNG is just bad. 3) It's also great fun if you just like the faster playstyle and really like the soul snatch mode as well it's very fun to use if you don't mind the slightly lesser DPS output potential (which this class is already broken, and you really want those higher CD gems to be able to allow you to get to that potential) Another Tip to give is that getting a higher level CD gem on your RS than on your Guillotine helps line them up better (not that it entirely matters), but with a setup like that you are able to actually more close align their CD's where in sometimes you can have a half second or two for your RS to come out. Also some ppl sleep on getting a higher lvl CD gem for LS but it's quite important once you start cycling efficiently Lastly one thing that I think is really important when it comes to your choice of Vestige or LS first really comes down to if you can fit them both into your C/J timing. If you can then it's whatever, but if you can't, getting LS out within the timer can be more beneficial and also easier as it is faster to output LS > Vestige than the other way around within C/J timing.
@@gass_8923 you can do it, it’s likely more nerfed but I don’t keep up with the game anymore as much. Your best bet now a days is to go full crit unless you just like the more spammy play style. You will do less but IMO, more fun and “cheaper to build” at the time
your second most dmging skill is either vestige or lethal spinning (if you have high hit rate on on back att) if lethal spinning is doing the most dmg that means you're doing alot more dmg comparative to vestige being 2nd on dmg
Hello Shiru. IDK maybe its just me BUT sometimes when i use the reaper scythe or vestige i feel like my damage depends on how exactly i used the skill on the boss. Let me explain, so if i stand too close to boss and use reapers scythe it deals less damage and crits less than if i stay a bit far from the boss and exactly the sharp part of the scythe touches the boss (like it slices through boss). Another thing with Vestige, again if i stand too close to boss or use it tight through the middle of the boss it crits and demages less BUT if i touch the boss from the side like barely touching the boss it crits and damages more. Sometimes i feel the same with guilietine swing , like when the guiliotine slashes the boss smoothly it deals more damage and crits more but when its a bit messy and doesnt go thorugh boss as smooth it doesnt crit for example. So i am wondering did you or anyone else feel like this is a thing , maybe its just me but i feel like there might some mechanic behind and realtion between your damage output and how you hit your skills on the boss.
You’re using reapers scythe to guarantee you’re not knocked back and you can go into lethal spinning right after scythe animation is done. Youre not using it to guarantee guillo because by the time you activate reapers scythe the guillo animation is already done. Also after guillo and scythe you’re supposed to go lethal spinning into vestige not the other way around. That way you make sure both scythe and lethal spinning hits back attack.
What I have noticed is that a lot of people instead of greeding damage when their guillotine swing is up, they will dodge out of the way first and then drop their guillotine and reaper's scythe combo. I never see people drop a guillotine, then dodge then reaper's scythe (and to be honest this will make your rotation a bit clunky). So because of that, I am saying that you can just drop the guillotine and eat the attack with the reaper's scythe. And in my opinion, you shouldn't even worry about hitting the back attack with reaper's scythe and lethal spinning - most of the time you aren't in the position to do so and trying to get in position will just decrease your uptime. That is why I think you can be and need to be flexible with whether you go lethal spinning first or vestige first depending on the situation.
@@MisoxShiru yeah thats what i mean aswell with eating the attack with scythe after guillo. its just it sounded like you were saying to use scythe to make sure guillo animation wasnt canceled. Back attacking on SE while youre already there and close is just a few % more damage. you can be lasy and just attack wherever but I always to do the back if its close and not a giant hassle
bible reader here, can confirm guilly is #1, vestige #2 and not far from guilly. Reaper scythe is zero dmg, it actually is more utility with tenacity, you can definitely empower your reaper scythe if you have noting up adn you want to keep the up time as high as possible.
If you want to avoid Soul Snatch mode, why do NE SEs use Soul Drain in a 413 setup (or any setup for that matter)? Surely you want to minimise your meter generation, so wouldn't Astaros be better since it has higher raw damage, better stagger, weak point, and mobility, and doesn't accelerate your meter? I'm assuming it comes down to very precise calculations on the increased damage % from having more empowered pink skills with Drain, versus the higher overall dps from being in normal mode for longer without Drain - has anyone done/seen that calculation?
It’s exactly as you mention, it’s because of the empowered pink skills. And the problem with not going into Soul Snatch is that your cooldowns don’t come back in time for another rotation. So there doesn’t really need to be a calculation. If you don’t go into soul snatch, you don’t have the cooldowns to keep up the dps.
@@MisoxShiru I see. So the ideal rotation involves entering Soul Snatch immediately upon a Swing-Scythe combo in order for them to be on cooldown during the Soul Snatch window. Understood, thank you.
Definitely! Here is a link to my other video (timestampped) which has a screenshot of the rotation: ruclips.net/video/wPoPv0fyOq4/видео.htmlsi=HIcAh-SgHDY7RhGR&t=83
have you tried using soul drain > lunatic edge > harvest > guillotine > awakening > reaper scythe > lethal spinning (and then continue filling up the stones and using vestige and another guillotine), lets you use 3-4 enhanced skills before going into soul snatch
@@rodux8031 Yes! I have thought about it. But in most cases, that is actually lower DPS than using awakening earlier. In the rotation that most people do (soul drain > lunatic edge > awakening), you are able to use 2 reaper's scythes before heading into soul snatch but if you do your version of the rotation, you actually miss out on that 2nd reaper's scythe because you gained more Edge meter due to the extra empowered reaper's scythe. In terms of damage, 2 unempowered reaper's scythes (200% dmg) > 1 empowered reaper's scythe (150% dmg). The one situation where your rotation will do more damage is if you are forced to hold DPS after your first rotation (due to a mech or a boss phase, etc) because your Edge Meter will start draining and you will be able to fit in that 2nd unempowered reaper's scythe as a result of that. One raid like this I can think of is at the beginning of Akkan Gate 1 because the boss phases fairly quickly at the beginning of the fight. Hopefully that makes sense. If not, happy to talk it through on my stream - I find it harder to explain something through just text in many situations.
It's just because the cooldowns are aligned, and if you cast scythe immediately after swing, they both hit at roughly the same time with the lowest animation lock.
In terms of highest damage ceiling, the 413 nightmare full crit build is the way to go. But you can go 422 50/50 crit/swift with hallucination for a more comfortable playstyle. I haven't played the hallu build before but Saintone has and he talks a bit about it in his video: ruclips.net/video/t5Wo4gDnqYc/видео.htmlsi=PAeudgcVDeHVU4U3
Tbh I’ve never heard of a 512 build but any build with less pink skills is likely going to have a lower damage ceiling since that’s where the majority of your damage comes from.
Fyi to anyone reading, but input buffering skills like demonstrated with vestige is something every class can benefit from. You just have to make sure you're not holding the move key when you buffer a skill, since the movement will take priority over the skill and there can be a delay in the second skill casting
TLDR: the 60/40 crit/swift stat variation (two swift rings) with Hallucination can in many case allow you to be overall most consistent or even have higher DPS if this is a lower investment alt class (especially if you are just using event gems and don't plan to upgrade further). This was just in my testing and practice within raids and the results that I found.
If this is an alt class for anyone that is watching, I highly, highly, highly recommend trying out the 60/40 stat variant (two swift rings). This alleviates a few issues that you can have without investment. In the full crit variation (using event CD gems on Guillotine/RS) you are entirely reliant on hitting C/J for you to properly cycle into soul snatch mode. You CAN hit it without it but it's incredibly tight and almost any amount of time in hesitation in using your Guillotine/RS combo on the second round will lead to you needing to use Vestige to get into it (either enhanced or not) which can be both clunky and annoying with your CD's on the second rotation cycle.
(in case anyone is wondering, yes you can and should use the 413 skill build if you like that one more. The two skill builds (413 and 422) are entirely your choice based on preferences of skills but of course with the 413 being superior in either situation)
If you got the 60/40 route (with Hallu), you are:
1) You make up for your difference in CD gems needed giving you some breathing room both if you hit C/J or not to use your Guillotine/RS combo to cycle into Soul Snatch. Also if you happen to miss any skills or get knocked out of harvest for example, things come up much faster allowing for your mistakes to not be as painful
2) If you go 5x3 (adren 3) you are very very close to crit cap with Hallu so you take a hit in larger hit DPS especially if you have a crit syn on your team so you CAN go Nightmare with that, or you can actually just go 50/50 crit/swift and that will remove some crit so that you can utilize other synergies. If you got 5x3+1 (Adren 1) and Hallu then you are in the 85% range for crit which is perfect for optimal use. I find that I quite often can out dps the Full Crit players (especially event gem ones) just do to them not fully utilizing their Soul Snatch form and cycling through it for CD returns. This in turn both lowers the ceiling by not too much, but greatly lowers the floor IMO in terms of DPS allowing you to be more consistent overall. Until you are able to get 9 or 10 CD gems it's just too tight for most players especially if you either don't have Leg C/J and/or don't hit it as often, or your RNG is just bad.
3) It's also great fun if you just like the faster playstyle and really like the soul snatch mode as well it's very fun to use if you don't mind the slightly lesser DPS output potential (which this class is already broken, and you really want those higher CD gems to be able to allow you to get to that potential)
Another Tip to give is that getting a higher level CD gem on your RS than on your Guillotine helps line them up better (not that it entirely matters), but with a setup like that you are able to actually more close align their CD's where in sometimes you can have a half second or two for your RS to come out. Also some ppl sleep on getting a higher lvl CD gem for LS but it's quite important once you start cycling efficiently
Lastly one thing that I think is really important when it comes to your choice of Vestige or LS first really comes down to if you can fit them both into your C/J timing. If you can then it's whatever, but if you can't, getting LS out within the timer can be more beneficial and also easier as it is faster to output LS > Vestige than the other way around within C/J timing.
This comment is still available to do a SE right now? or nerfed something?
@@gass_8923 you can do it, it’s likely more nerfed but I don’t keep up with the game anymore as much. Your best bet now a days is to go full crit unless you just like the more spammy play style. You will do less but IMO, more fun and “cheaper to build” at the time
your second most dmging skill is either vestige or lethal spinning (if you have high hit rate on on back att) if lethal spinning is doing the most dmg that means you're doing alot more dmg comparative to vestige being 2nd on dmg
Hello Shiru. IDK maybe its just me BUT sometimes when i use the reaper scythe or vestige i feel like my damage depends on how exactly i used the skill on the boss. Let me explain, so if i stand too close to boss and use reapers scythe it deals less damage and crits less than if i stay a bit far from the boss and exactly the sharp part of the scythe touches the boss (like it slices through boss). Another thing with Vestige, again if i stand too close to boss or use it tight through the middle of the boss it crits and demages less BUT if i touch the boss from the side like barely touching the boss it crits and damages more. Sometimes i feel the same with guilietine swing , like when the guiliotine slashes the boss smoothly it deals more damage and crits more but when its a bit messy and doesnt go thorugh boss as smooth it doesnt crit for example. So i am wondering did you or anyone else feel like this is a thing , maybe its just me but i feel like there might some mechanic behind and realtion between your damage output and how you hit your skills on the boss.
love the vid misa! appreciate all the tips to help perfect soul eater
I find it much comfier to swap c/j from how you have it so you can open with LE for the movement and extra damage
For sure. It’s definitely interchangeable!
hope more build will come up and not jsut the 413. Would liek to know how the 503 build is
You’re using reapers scythe to guarantee you’re not knocked back and you can go into lethal spinning right after scythe animation is done. Youre not using it to guarantee guillo because by the time you activate reapers scythe the guillo animation is already done. Also after guillo and scythe you’re supposed to go lethal spinning into vestige not the other way around. That way you make sure both scythe and lethal spinning hits back attack.
What I have noticed is that a lot of people instead of greeding damage when their guillotine swing is up, they will dodge out of the way first and then drop their guillotine and reaper's scythe combo. I never see people drop a guillotine, then dodge then reaper's scythe (and to be honest this will make your rotation a bit clunky). So because of that, I am saying that you can just drop the guillotine and eat the attack with the reaper's scythe. And in my opinion, you shouldn't even worry about hitting the back attack with reaper's scythe and lethal spinning - most of the time you aren't in the position to do so and trying to get in position will just decrease your uptime. That is why I think you can be and need to be flexible with whether you go lethal spinning first or vestige first depending on the situation.
@@MisoxShiru yeah thats what i mean aswell with eating the attack with scythe after guillo. its just it sounded like you were saying to use scythe to make sure guillo animation wasnt canceled. Back attacking on SE while youre already there and close is just a few % more damage. you can be lasy and just attack wherever but I always to do the back if its close and not a giant hassle
bible reader here, can confirm guilly is #1, vestige #2 and not far from guilly.
Reaper scythe is zero dmg, it actually is more utility with tenacity, you can definitely empower your reaper scythe if you have noting up adn you want to keep the up time as high as possible.
mine lethal spinning is second .-.
If you want to avoid Soul Snatch mode, why do NE SEs use Soul Drain in a 413 setup (or any setup for that matter)? Surely you want to minimise your meter generation, so wouldn't Astaros be better since it has higher raw damage, better stagger, weak point, and mobility, and doesn't accelerate your meter? I'm assuming it comes down to very precise calculations on the increased damage % from having more empowered pink skills with Drain, versus the higher overall dps from being in normal mode for longer without Drain - has anyone done/seen that calculation?
It’s exactly as you mention, it’s because of the empowered pink skills. And the problem with not going into Soul Snatch is that your cooldowns don’t come back in time for another rotation. So there doesn’t really need to be a calculation. If you don’t go into soul snatch, you don’t have the cooldowns to keep up the dps.
@@MisoxShiru I see. So the ideal rotation involves entering Soul Snatch immediately upon a Swing-Scythe combo in order for them to be on cooldown during the Soul Snatch window. Understood, thank you.
hey man thanks for the tips. I was wondering, do you maybe have a opener rotation with awakening?
Definitely! Here is a link to my other video (timestampped) which has a screenshot of the rotation:
ruclips.net/video/wPoPv0fyOq4/видео.htmlsi=HIcAh-SgHDY7RhGR&t=83
have you tried using soul drain > lunatic edge > harvest > guillotine > awakening > reaper scythe > lethal spinning (and then continue filling up the stones and using vestige and another guillotine), lets you use 3-4 enhanced skills before going into soul snatch
@@rodux8031 Yes! I have thought about it. But in most cases, that is actually lower DPS than using awakening earlier. In the rotation that most people do (soul drain > lunatic edge > awakening), you are able to use 2 reaper's scythes before heading into soul snatch but if you do your version of the rotation, you actually miss out on that 2nd reaper's scythe because you gained more Edge meter due to the extra empowered reaper's scythe. In terms of damage, 2 unempowered reaper's scythes (200% dmg) > 1 empowered reaper's scythe (150% dmg).
The one situation where your rotation will do more damage is if you are forced to hold DPS after your first rotation (due to a mech or a boss phase, etc) because your Edge Meter will start draining and you will be able to fit in that 2nd unempowered reaper's scythe as a result of that. One raid like this I can think of is at the beginning of Akkan Gate 1 because the boss phases fairly quickly at the beginning of the fight.
Hopefully that makes sense. If not, happy to talk it through on my stream - I find it harder to explain something through just text in many situations.
I thought empowered did double damage?
In terms of edge meter double usage wins by a lot ofcourse@@MisoxShiru
@@cvm-wd40 Nah, empowered is 50% extra damage. It says it in the engraving.
In your opinion, what would be the priority of damage gems? I only have 2 of lvl 10
Gullotine Swing and Vestige.
the face kinda blocks the dps screen.... wondering why ppl think its important to see them
Why you use reaper scythe right after swing, is the enhance affect both?
It's just because the cooldowns are aligned, and if you cast scythe immediately after swing, they both hit at roughly the same time with the lowest animation lock.
is nightmare better then hallucination ? also if i want to switch how shud i do that ?
In terms of highest damage ceiling, the 413 nightmare full crit build is the way to go. But you can go 422 50/50 crit/swift with hallucination for a more comfortable playstyle. I haven't played the hallu build before but Saintone has and he talks a bit about it in his video:
ruclips.net/video/t5Wo4gDnqYc/видео.htmlsi=PAeudgcVDeHVU4U3
what about 512 skill build
Tbh I’ve never heard of a 512 build but any build with less pink skills is likely going to have a lower damage ceiling since that’s where the majority of your damage comes from.