Dragoborne's resource system was balanced by an interesting mechanic: many cards allow you to exchange cards from your hand with resource cards. It's like having a 2nd hand of cards, and at the same time it can fill the absence of a color in the resources, very clever!
I loved this game so much, still have my deck. I really hope they relaunch it someday. They finally started printing cards that gained good effects from low die rolls.
I bought a whole bunch of this on clearance. When I moved I tossed most of it. I kept one deck that I made that’s it. I regret getting rid of it, some of the best art ever.
Yeah, the art is really good! It's an interesting blend of western and japanese styles. The frames are also fantastic - they do a really good job showing off the art.
Dragonborne All I'm thinking of when that name appears is not the card game, but: Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin, Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal! Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan, Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!
My personal beliefs about why dragoborne failed was a combination of bushiroad releasing way too many games at one time. But also the direct target to an english audiance. Bushiroad games are kinda defined by their japanese card game design ethos and marketing. While dragoborne was heavily western focused taking inspiration from magic and duel masters. English tcgs and japanese tcgs take very different design ethoes. And i always felt dragoborne was confused on what it was.
I play Commander and this looks CRAZY fun. What the heck? I'm not finished with the other half of the video, but the reason it failed is gonna surprise me.
What do you mean by pass? As in: I'll let it pass because it's like MTG and Duel Masters? (I like it) Or I'm passing the game because it's like those games. (It's a rip off)
@@kagemushashien8394 More likely the second. We got a lot of "Magic: the Gathering, but..." games and felt it was more like another game in the ocean card wise.
@@Yinyanyeow The reasons why I'm asking is because I'm building a TCG of my own, and want opinions to make my game better, it takes systems from almost any game and combines them to make an intresting synergy. My resource system functions like this: Every card functions as a resource, once a turn you can place one card face up sideways on the far left, that is your resource pool is. To play a card you Spark it and turn it face up, then you Pauly the card from your hand that has the same colour and has the same level as the number of cards that's in your resources, there can only be up to 12 in there, and every card is a 1 cost, the more cards in your pool, the more you can play. Combat functions like MTG, you ATK your opponent directly and their troops may Parry (block), and both troops will take damage equal to their opposing troop's ATK. You must Spark 1 per attack. There are 2 zones on the field, the top zone and the zone below it. The top zone is the Battle Grid, troops here can only attack, while the bottom is the Command Grid and those there can only Parry, you may move your troops to different zones as you please and there is no limit on how many can be played. Players start with 0 points, if they get their opponent equal or above 30 they win. Keywords in my game are symbols, like Inscryption. The reason why I combined alot of games because I like how they play out, but don't like the directions they go to, Yugioh is power creeped to tin buck 2, Pokemon needs you to draw your whole deck and there's a chance your key cards are your prize cards, MTG all comes down to the draw so either you draw a good hand or get screwed in 2 ways. I thought combining them will make an intresting game and intresting interactions along with not having the cons of those games along trying to be simple as can be. And if it's the resource system is the culprit mabey I can make my game like this: Every card has a level, you can only play that card if the turn (your number in specific) you are on are equal or higher.
@@kagemushashien8394 Unique on their own. I mean, with so many following how magic is doing it makes it look like they are trying to copy the system but alter it to not be a carbon copy.
Ngl I thought the dice as a resource system was really cool but it was definitely the 4th interesting bushi game for me at the time so I passee over it.
I was interested in it while it was still alive, but my game store didn't get it, being very set in stone with what games it sells (Magic and Pokemon, and only a tiny bit of Flesh and Blood in later years) so I never really had an option to try I guess it's for the better that I never bought into a game that died in a year, but I still wish I'd gotten to try it
Yeah, it's definitely sad how locked-in game stores can be on which tcgs they carry - although I do get they have to worry about making money, and so might only stick to the known big sellers. It still sucks for smaller games, though. I'm impressed Flesh and Blood seems to be making a go of it, given how rarely new tcgs pop up in any of my local game stores.
@@tcgacademia It's good, though, that something new has broken through and is being successful. I hope Flesh and Blood's success leads more people to be willing to give new games from lesser known or independent developers a go, instead of only caring about the big 3 or the big Japanese companies
I just heard ppl doesn't really like the dice. Sure I haven't really played the game, and know fully just now from your vid, but my impression is, maybe the dice by itself is okay, but it already has RNG on resource and life system. Maybe it's too much for one game. In a match, screwed by resource, on another, fort burst cost you a game, and in other match, the god of dice is not on your side. tl;dr 3 RNG on base mechanic make me afraid as window shopper
The dice almost feel closer to worker placement in board games than something like dice cards in yugioh, but you can still get screwed in a crucial turn by a bad roll, so I definitely get it - I gave the game a pass when it released for the same reason.
Wait, how exactly can art/design costs be 'additional'? Does Bushiroad not have to pay for art when designing a jp card for their games? Why should it be damaging additional cost buying art for their game whether jp text or english on the card? Also, you're guessing like a fake fortune teller at a fair that MOST? people didn't want to try Dragoborne bc it was announced after the cancelation of L&L. Do you know how many tcg already died? Yet absurdly cardgame fans start new ones and there's constantly new stuff. Based on your logic we wouldn't have many games or no company would ever release a new one due to high chance that people assume it could be cancelled.
Additional in the sense that if the game is already stable in the JP market, bringing it over to EN takes a lot less work than making something from scratch for the EN market. And it's not that bushiroad cancelled another game once before. It was that they cancelled one game then almost immediately announced a new game. You could have the memory of a goldfish and still see the writing on the wall for Dragoborne.
The reason why it died off is because of the lack of knowledge of its existence, and/or not enough presence in stores or not enough stores containing said card game, and/or probably a not so big audience. That's what I think.
I kind of wonder how it would have done if it was released now. Due to certain recent events, there's a lot more webcam play, and a lot more stores with online storefronts. It's a big change from only 5 years ago, and I'm curious to see what it means for smaller games in the tcg market.
I remember seeing an ad for this out of nowhere, being put off by the way the resources came off the top of the deck randomly, and then never seeing anything else for this. I didn't spend a lot of time in game stores but the little I did I didn't see these and forgot about it for years. Thanks for the video on this. Been curious of this game shook out.
Won so many events for this game and really bummed out Bushiroad did it dirty. Adding RNG for the sake of RNG, even if small impact, was enough to deter people off of it.
Hey, I have a really hard time following your how to plays for various TCGs because you tend to skip a systemic explanation and go straight into a demo. I'm trying to get info on a lot of different TCGs, and your other videos that don't include demos have been very helpful.
Thanks for the feedback! It's a bit of a fine line, since I've also been criticized for taking too much time on certain parts of my explanations. Maybe a more general overview of the game before the demo game starts would help lay things out a bit better? These are definitely the most tricky videos I do for the channel, and there's definitely a lot of room for improvement, so I appreciate you letting me know parts of it aren't working as intended.
@@tcgacademia I would suggest laying out what the colors are for the game, or whether it is an archetype based game, and what the general gist of game flow is, such as the phase structure
Power creep was most definitely the reason this game died. It had a sizable player base where I was from in set 1 and Set 2 was still ok until halfway through the format. A card called Ferocity Unleashed straight killed the game. Red/Green ferocity was nuts. Every week it would top and eventually people ran it or even just blue/black/yellow to counter it which sometimes couldn’t catch it either. It was already pretty niche to start. When set 3 rolled about there was hardly any players left and I can’t even remember seeing any set 4 or 5.
Thanks for the info! I saw some complaints about it, but it didn't find specific cards that were causing problems. Given what Collected Company did in MTG, I can definitely see how Ferocity would be a dangerous card, and an unbalanced format that early in the game's run is really dangerous for a game.
Still one of my favorite cards games of all time. Bushi didn’t do aaaanything to properly market this game. The only people that heard of it was the small group playing it
I loved Dragoborne. One of the issues I had with it was it seemed most LGS didnt stock it- I only seemed to find it at bushi flag shops, and they were always a terrible mark up from just buying online. On top of this, allot of those shops would state they would have teaching or gameplay event days, I would show up, and no one would be there or they would cancel it for vanguard or weiss etc. The handful of times I found a game night firing, it was sub 10 people and without fail they would be playing wrong. From off color ambushes, to playing off color cards without resources matching, any number of things but those stand out in memory. Keep in mind this was also in socal, which has a myriad of LGS and bushi shops so it wasnt in a unpopulated area without anyone. Loved the game and art, but it almost felt like bushi let it fail from the ground up expecting it just to take off by existing. I also have qualms with the long name and the backs of the cards dont really match the art (in my opinion) and felt dated.
On top of this I also heard ALLOT of grumbling in the bushi shops about a "mtg lite" game "replacing" L&L or bushi not helping put buddyfight more etc etc. People would seethe at me asking if anyone played or was interested 😅
I have a card game design involving the roll of 7 different dice on each turn. One for each of the 7 different card stacks you may have in play. Random cards drawn coupled with random results based on dice rolls. If the purest do not believe in such mechanics. I need one of them explain to me how people spend hours at a time playing slots. If its because of a gambling addiction. I answer this by developing a more cost friendly game.
i made a fan game based on dragoborne because i didnt have much money at the time and my friends were avid card game fans... we played quite a bit of games in HS until we all moved away
I definitely get designing a fan version of a game because you don't have enough money to dive deep into the actual game - I did the same with yugioh. Glad you had a good play group in HS, even if it didn't last.
Dragoborne's resource system was balanced by an interesting mechanic: many cards allow you to exchange cards from your hand with resource cards. It's like having a 2nd hand of cards, and at the same time it can fill the absence of a color in the resources, very clever!
I loved this game so much, still have my deck. I really hope they relaunch it someday. They finally started printing cards that gained good effects from low die rolls.
The die effects are some really interesting design space, it's too bad they didn't have the chance to keep digging into the design space.
I bought a whole bunch of this on clearance. When I moved I tossed most of it. I kept one deck that I made that’s it. I regret getting rid of it, some of the best art ever.
Yeah, the art is really good! It's an interesting blend of western and japanese styles. The frames are also fantastic - they do a really good job showing off the art.
Me encanta hallar un canal de TCG que explique como jugar todos los juegos y hasta explique qué salió mal.
Dragonborne
All I'm thinking of when that name appears is not the card game, but:
Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!
My personal beliefs about why dragoborne failed was a combination of bushiroad releasing way too many games at one time. But also the direct target to an english audiance. Bushiroad games are kinda defined by their japanese card game design ethos and marketing. While dragoborne was heavily western focused taking inspiration from magic and duel masters. English tcgs and japanese tcgs take very different design ethoes. And i always felt dragoborne was confused on what it was.
I play Commander and this looks CRAZY fun. What the heck? I'm not finished with the other half of the video, but the reason it failed is gonna surprise me.
It's a solid game for sure - I'm pretty sure the gameplay itself wasn't the reason it was cancelled, since it is quite fun to play.
The dice was a factor but I felt it was so much like duel masters/magic that I felt it was a pass.
What do you mean by pass?
As in:
I'll let it pass because it's like MTG and Duel Masters? (I like it)
Or
I'm passing the game because it's like those games. (It's a rip off)
@@kagemushashien8394 More likely the second. We got a lot of "Magic: the Gathering, but..." games and felt it was more like another game in the ocean card wise.
@@Yinyanyeow So you prefer more card games to be more like MTG, or be something unique on their own because there's too much of the rip offs?
@@Yinyanyeow The reasons why I'm asking is because I'm building a TCG of my own, and want opinions to make my game better, it takes systems from almost any game and combines them to make an intresting synergy.
My resource system functions like this: Every card functions as a resource, once a turn you can place one card face up sideways on the far left, that is your resource pool is.
To play a card you Spark it and turn it face up, then you Pauly the card from your hand that has the same colour and has the same level as the number of cards that's in your resources, there can only be up to 12 in there, and every card is a 1 cost, the more cards in your pool, the more you can play.
Combat functions like MTG, you ATK your opponent directly and their troops may Parry (block), and both troops will take damage equal to their opposing troop's ATK.
You must Spark 1 per attack.
There are 2 zones on the field, the top zone and the zone below it. The top zone is the Battle Grid, troops here can only attack, while the bottom is the Command Grid and those there can only Parry, you may move your troops to different zones as you please and there is no limit on how many can be played.
Players start with 0 points, if they get their opponent equal or above 30 they win.
Keywords in my game are symbols, like Inscryption.
The reason why I combined alot of games because I like how they play out, but don't like the directions they go to, Yugioh is power creeped to tin buck 2, Pokemon needs you to draw your whole deck and there's a chance your key cards are your prize cards, MTG all comes down to the draw so either you draw a good hand or get screwed in 2 ways.
I thought combining them will make an intresting game and intresting interactions along with not having the cons of those games along trying to be simple as can be.
And if it's the resource system is the culprit mabey I can make my game like this:
Every card has a level, you can only play that card if the turn (your number in specific) you are on are equal or higher.
@@kagemushashien8394 Unique on their own. I mean, with so many following how magic is doing it makes it look like they are trying to copy the system but alter it to not be a carbon copy.
Ngl I thought the dice as a resource system was really cool but it was definitely the 4th interesting bushi game for me at the time so I passee over it.
4th interesting bushi game is a really good way to describe it XD
I was interested in it while it was still alive, but my game store didn't get it, being very set in stone with what games it sells (Magic and Pokemon, and only a tiny bit of Flesh and Blood in later years) so I never really had an option to try
I guess it's for the better that I never bought into a game that died in a year, but I still wish I'd gotten to try it
Yeah, it's definitely sad how locked-in game stores can be on which tcgs they carry - although I do get they have to worry about making money, and so might only stick to the known big sellers. It still sucks for smaller games, though. I'm impressed Flesh and Blood seems to be making a go of it, given how rarely new tcgs pop up in any of my local game stores.
@@tcgacademia It's good, though, that something new has broken through and is being successful. I hope Flesh and Blood's success leads more people to be willing to give new games from lesser known or independent developers a go, instead of only caring about the big 3 or the big Japanese companies
I was interested in this game but never got to try it.
It looks like duelmasters mixed with a splash of yugioh.
I just heard ppl doesn't really like the dice. Sure I haven't really played the game, and know fully just now from your vid, but my impression is, maybe the dice by itself is okay, but it already has RNG on resource and life system. Maybe it's too much for one game. In a match, screwed by resource, on another, fort burst cost you a game, and in other match, the god of dice is not on your side.
tl;dr 3 RNG on base mechanic make me afraid as window shopper
The dice almost feel closer to worker placement in board games than something like dice cards in yugioh, but you can still get screwed in a crucial turn by a bad roll, so I definitely get it - I gave the game a pass when it released for the same reason.
@@tcgacademia and having two extra RNG that can also screw you is something else :D
Dragoborne was clearly TCG directed at MtG crowd but they have no reason to play any other TCG than MtG.
I think that's a very easy trap for games to fall into. It never ends well.
Well that was fun but the game's dead....
That random dice mechanic would keep me from playing the game. Remove RNG from your games people.
Wait, how exactly can art/design costs be 'additional'? Does Bushiroad not have to pay for art when designing a jp card for their games? Why should it be damaging additional cost buying art for their game whether jp text or english on the card? Also, you're guessing like a fake fortune teller at a fair that MOST? people didn't want to try Dragoborne bc it was announced after the cancelation of L&L. Do you know how many tcg already died? Yet absurdly cardgame fans start new ones and there's constantly new stuff. Based on your logic we wouldn't have many games or no company would ever release a new one due to high chance that people assume it could be cancelled.
Additional in the sense that if the game is already stable in the JP market, bringing it over to EN takes a lot less work than making something from scratch for the EN market. And it's not that bushiroad cancelled another game once before. It was that they cancelled one game then almost immediately announced a new game. You could have the memory of a goldfish and still see the writing on the wall for Dragoborne.
The reason why it died off is because of the lack of knowledge of its existence, and/or not enough presence in stores or not enough stores containing said card game, and/or probably a not so big audience.
That's what I think.
I kind of wonder how it would have done if it was released now. Due to certain recent events, there's a lot more webcam play, and a lot more stores with online storefronts. It's a big change from only 5 years ago, and I'm curious to see what it means for smaller games in the tcg market.
I remember seeing an ad for this out of nowhere, being put off by the way the resources came off the top of the deck randomly, and then never seeing anything else for this. I didn't spend a lot of time in game stores but the little I did I didn't see these and forgot about it for years.
Thanks for the video on this. Been curious of this game shook out.
Won so many events for this game and really bummed out Bushiroad did it dirty. Adding RNG for the sake of RNG, even if small impact, was enough to deter people off of it.
In addition to Bushiroad still taking the "quantity over quality" approach to creating and maintaining IPs?
Hey, I have a really hard time following your how to plays for various TCGs because you tend to skip a systemic explanation and go straight into a demo. I'm trying to get info on a lot of different TCGs, and your other videos that don't include demos have been very helpful.
Thanks for the feedback! It's a bit of a fine line, since I've also been criticized for taking too much time on certain parts of my explanations. Maybe a more general overview of the game before the demo game starts would help lay things out a bit better? These are definitely the most tricky videos I do for the channel, and there's definitely a lot of room for improvement, so I appreciate you letting me know parts of it aren't working as intended.
@@tcgacademia I would suggest laying out what the colors are for the game, or whether it is an archetype based game, and what the general gist of game flow is, such as the phase structure
Power creep was most definitely the reason this game died. It had a sizable player base where I was from in set 1 and Set 2 was still ok until halfway through the format. A card called Ferocity Unleashed straight killed the game. Red/Green ferocity was nuts. Every week it would top and eventually people ran it or even just blue/black/yellow to counter it which sometimes couldn’t catch it either. It was already pretty niche to start. When set 3 rolled about there was hardly any players left and I can’t even remember seeing any set 4 or 5.
Thanks for the info! I saw some complaints about it, but it didn't find specific cards that were causing problems. Given what Collected Company did in MTG, I can definitely see how Ferocity would be a dangerous card, and an unbalanced format that early in the game's run is really dangerous for a game.
Still one of my favorite cards games of all time. Bushi didn’t do aaaanything to properly market this game. The only people that heard of it was the small group playing it
Yeah :( Given the time and resources it takes to get a new tcg off the ground, it's strange how easily Bushi seems to drop them.
I loved Dragoborne. One of the issues I had with it was it seemed most LGS didnt stock it- I only seemed to find it at bushi flag shops, and they were always a terrible mark up from just buying online.
On top of this, allot of those shops would state they would have teaching or gameplay event days, I would show up, and no one would be there or they would cancel it for vanguard or weiss etc.
The handful of times I found a game night firing, it was sub 10 people and without fail they would be playing wrong. From off color ambushes, to playing off color cards without resources matching, any number of things but those stand out in memory.
Keep in mind this was also in socal, which has a myriad of LGS and bushi shops so it wasnt in a unpopulated area without anyone.
Loved the game and art, but it almost felt like bushi let it fail from the ground up expecting it just to take off by existing. I also have qualms with the long name and the backs of the cards dont really match the art (in my opinion) and felt dated.
On top of this I also heard ALLOT of grumbling in the bushi shops about a "mtg lite" game "replacing" L&L or bushi not helping put buddyfight more etc etc. People would seethe at me asking if anyone played or was interested 😅
Always wanted to play more of this
I still have the cool dice that came with the demo decks. Cards are long gone though
They were nice dice! I still use mine regularly.
I have a card game design involving the roll of 7 different dice on each turn. One for each of the 7 different card stacks you may have in play. Random cards drawn coupled with random results based on dice rolls. If the purest do not believe in such mechanics. I need one of them explain to me how people spend hours at a time playing slots. If its because of a gambling addiction. I answer this by developing a more cost friendly game.
i made a fan game based on dragoborne because i didnt have much money at the time and my friends were avid card game fans... we played quite a bit of games in HS until we all moved away
I definitely get designing a fan version of a game because you don't have enough money to dive deep into the actual game - I did the same with yugioh. Glad you had a good play group in HS, even if it didn't last.
It failed because it had woke characters PERIOD. and good riddance 🤣🤣🤣
You aren't very smart it seems if you think that.
@tcgacademia4272 Are there any Discord groups that still play Dragoborne tcg
flick my card like that and we throwing hands right then