Thanks for featuring my video! I hope it's helpful to the community, because I really do feel like parry windows for all three weapon archetypes, while different to learn, are intuitive. I did end up making a longer analysis going deep into Block type weapons, and came to the same conclusion that I stated before: Block and Balance have inverted timing, and Fencing dominates all frames. As far as I can see, the devs have confirmed this as well.
1:47 ya trials has the neat mechanic of using whatever matching weapon you have equipped. So this is Tactical's trial 1, it'll use whatever parry version you have equipped for chainsword. This was how I thoroughly learned the new block mechanics. Bulwark Trial 2 will use whatever Power Fist you equipped Bulwar Trial 3 will use Power Sword. Good for practice and testing.
@PrimitiveBeast sounds like weapons is set but can use different versions depending on what you equip. When most us dir the trials we probably all had the base version.
I’ve noticed Vanguard’s 50% parry window works for block weapons as well so I’ve been using the block combat knife and it is so powerful. I’ve been melting Majoris with heavy attacks and with 6 attack speed it’s not that much slower than balanced knife 7 attack speed. So fun I recommend trying it out.
I’d like them to rethink how operations fit into the game. The fighting was ongoing before Titus showed up and after he left. There are an infinite number of operations and shorter engagements they could create. Three I can think of off hand. Tyranid ship raid, Chaos ship raid or just rift/warp fighting, and a battle barge fight. I mean, the Capts battle map was already lit up when Titus shows up. What were our guys doing then? I imagine it involved helping the guardsman, extracting key assets and people off world, etc. no 40k game is complete without a nobleman being angry with the manner in which they were rescued. ETC!
The thing about being surrounded & partying everything depends on whether or not the mobs are in attacks animation. Ofc you’re going to miss parrying if the mobs aren’t even attacking. Some people just rely too much on mindlessly parry spamming
That’s why blocking is awesome now. If you just block off animation you’re 90% there. Learn the exceptions and you’re good. Fencing off animation just feels safe though. And since I basically dissociate when I play games, it’s nice.
The windows are much improved. It may not be 100% pre-patch, but its close enough that I’m regularly parrying with my Heavy in Ruthless once again. I am consistently my squads go to for carrying the gene-seed, and have had no issues with the updated parry mechanic.
Vanguard is GOATED now, every thing is a fencing melee weapon, +50% dodge window and 10% hp for every execution. Oh and the overheal bug of the melta gun still exist
As a bulwark main I agree it is different however it's just a slight learning curve being surround kinda just forced you to move a bit more and gun strike when you can but it's %100 survivable it's much better now than 5.0
Parrying the tyranid warrior with the whip has become a pain I noticed. I miss the parries more often now. Dont remember them beeing such a pain. Everything else feels good/the same.
I was mostly playing Heavy during the 5.0 patch and honestly was able to parry fine with bonking the heavy gun. Missed the whole controversy I guess. If it’s even easier now then great lol.
The guy who described being surrounded by a swarm and parrying everything isn't coping. As a parry focused bulwark, I've noticed a difference in hit registration with all enemies. Sometimes I'll parry a majoris and it'll whiff but the attack also won't damage me. There's something different in the backend of the game that's causing these issues if all they did with patch 5.1 is revert the parry widow.
Tactical marine with block chainsword is so powerful, i forget its lethal run and thinking its ruthless or even the substantional run instead. I was already in love qith block vhainsword before the 5.0 patch but now, im literally ready to marry the chainsword spirit in the name of adeptus mechanicus.
So after yesterday's lethal runs I stand corrected. The heavy bolter is the best for heavy as long as you use the 15% increased contested health perk. On lethal you can literally stand there unloading bullets and you are invincible. I face tanked 2 terminators on lethal during a reliquary run. It's freaking amazing!
Block hits hard, fencing is for invulnerability, and balanced is just lacking now. Would it be too much to ask balance to utilize both potentially? Like for instance, the parry time can stay the same for balance, but make it so the block frames at the start can build adrenaline stacks. Shouldn’t balance be an “in between” choice to block & fencing?
the blocking changes have 100% helped give a valid reason to run blocking weapons, and infact given more agressive players like me an improved melee option... however there is definately something wrong with the attack hitbox/hitbox frames on Minoris class enemies (gaunts and tzaangors) because i used to be able to parry minoris enemies and even after the 5.1 fix returned all other parrying back to normal it didn't fix minoris enemies... can't parry any minoris anymore which sorta wrecks parry focused bulwark builds that relyed on minoris parrys
Blocking weapons are still extremely underpowered, they cannot regain enough armor to recover from ranged damage and adrenaline surge is tedious to manage. Also, data miners have shown that the fencing parry window is not the same from patch 4.5 to 5.1, going from a total bonus of 660 to 330. There's a post on the focus forums from sciblob that shows the exact changes.
I haven't played the new patch yet so i'll ask, does 5.1 fencing need timing like in 5.0? Or is it back to pre 5.0 where you can press parry yesterday and parry 400 attacks for free
Fenc is just a better option, like every single game has the strongest and the weakest of something still all of them still playable. To be real if you are not doing something like solo lethal you shouldn't even care about that.
To the comment about parrying everything all day long: If you are surrounded and can parry everything all day long, the parry is broken and if you want to play like that go ahead and install cheats.
Fencing is back to being broken af and wildly OP. They just needed to give it an extra .10 on the perfect window and it would have been fine. Unfortunately the "I wanna win by spamming 1 button" crowd is *very* vocal and rather than having a compelling melee system that rewarded precision we have 1 objectively correct weapon that outperforms all others in all situation. If they are gonna leave fencing this easy to parry with then the fencing gun-strikes need to lose their difficulty scalar and have their overall damage reduced by 25-30%. The people that crutch fencing like this are the same ones who grab the servo skull and never shoot the Hierophant, fuck up the island rotation in Obelisk, and fuck up the train puzzle in Fall of Atreus. Spoon feeding victory and positive feedback to people who never earned it is objectively detrimental to the rest of the player base. Feeling like God and effortlessly destroying everything in your path in Lethal is something that a few top players get to do because they earned it. Making everything so easy that everybody can do it removes all the value of the accomplishment, everything just becomes a participation trophy. If you dont have skills, and still want to feel godlike, then turn the difficulty down. Most people should feel appropriately challenged on Average, as that is literally he definition. People assuming that lethal clears are owed to them and demanding that the devs live up to that assumption are having a negative impact on the rest of us.
Bro you are a god at making straw-man arguments. People complain about nerfs to fencing because the other options still suck. Doesn’t matter how much damage you deal with blocking weapons when the ranged damage gets rid of all your armor and health anyway, you can’t regain enough armor. Fencing weapons aren’t “OP,” they’re viable and the other options are not. You can struggle with relic-tier blocking weapons at the damn minimal difficulty level if you aren’t paying **very** close attention. Blocking and balance still need buffs, especially blocking, adrenaline surge is too tedious to manage.
Thanks for featuring my video! I hope it's helpful to the community, because I really do feel like parry windows for all three weapon archetypes, while different to learn, are intuitive. I did end up making a longer analysis going deep into Block type weapons, and came to the same conclusion that I stated before: Block and Balance have inverted timing, and Fencing dominates all frames. As far as I can see, the devs have confirmed this as well.
IM FRIENDS WITH THIS GUY \o/
1:47 ya trials has the neat mechanic of using whatever matching weapon you have equipped. So this is Tactical's trial 1, it'll use whatever parry version you have equipped for chainsword. This was how I thoroughly learned the new block mechanics.
Bulwark Trial 2 will use whatever Power Fist you equipped
Bulwar Trial 3 will use Power Sword.
Good for practice and testing.
This must be a new change because they used to be set at whatever weapon the trial required.
@PrimitiveBeast sounds like weapons is set but can use different versions depending on what you equip. When most us dir the trials we probably all had the base version.
As an assault main I've never felt more empowered as a melee class
I’ve noticed Vanguard’s 50% parry window works for block weapons as well so I’ve been using the block combat knife and it is so powerful. I’ve been melting Majoris with heavy attacks and with 6 attack speed it’s not that much slower than balanced knife 7 attack speed. So fun I recommend trying it out.
Unrelated note, I love that you use armored core VI soundtrack in the back of all your videos.
I’d like them to rethink how operations fit into the game. The fighting was ongoing before Titus showed up and after he left. There are an infinite number of operations and shorter engagements they could create.
Three I can think of off hand. Tyranid ship raid, Chaos ship raid or just rift/warp fighting, and a battle barge fight.
I mean, the Capts battle map was already lit up when Titus shows up. What were our guys doing then? I imagine it involved helping the guardsman, extracting key assets and people off world, etc. no 40k game is complete without a nobleman being angry with the manner in which they were rescued. ETC!
The thing about being surrounded & partying everything depends on whether or not the mobs are in attacks animation. Ofc you’re going to miss parrying if the mobs aren’t even attacking. Some people just rely too much on mindlessly parry spamming
That’s why blocking is awesome now. If you just block off animation you’re 90% there. Learn the exceptions and you’re good. Fencing off animation just feels safe though. And since I basically dissociate when I play games, it’s nice.
The windows are much improved. It may not be 100% pre-patch, but its close enough that I’m regularly parrying with my Heavy in Ruthless once again. I am consistently my squads go to for carrying the gene-seed, and have had no issues with the updated parry mechanic.
Vanguard is GOATED now, every thing is a fencing melee weapon, +50% dodge window and 10% hp for every execution. Oh and the overheal bug of the melta gun still exist
Vanguard with the melta, chainsword, and that perk that heals on majoris+ melee kills is pretty much unbeatable rn.
@ Agree, since I found this combo last week, i've not yet lost a single run on lethal
As a bulwark main I agree it is different however it's just a slight learning curve being surround kinda just forced you to move a bit more and gun strike when you can but it's %100 survivable it's much better now than 5.0
Parrying the tyranid warrior with the whip has become a pain I noticed. I miss the parries more often now. Dont remember them beeing such a pain. Everything else feels good/the same.
I was mostly playing Heavy during the 5.0 patch and honestly was able to parry fine with bonking the heavy gun. Missed the whole controversy I guess. If it’s even easier now then great lol.
as a assault player it feels good to be back in business
there is something wrong with parry and repost gunstrike since 4.5
The guy who described being surrounded by a swarm and parrying everything isn't coping. As a parry focused bulwark, I've noticed a difference in hit registration with all enemies. Sometimes I'll parry a majoris and it'll whiff but the attack also won't damage me. There's something different in the backend of the game that's causing these issues if all they did with patch 5.1 is revert the parry widow.
Tactical marine with block chainsword is so powerful, i forget its lethal run and thinking its ruthless or even the substantional run instead. I was already in love qith block vhainsword before the 5.0 patch but now, im literally ready to marry the chainsword spirit in the name of adeptus mechanicus.
The balanced knife being used like a fencing knife I can agree with, I’ve been doing the same thing
Its fine as it is. If its too EZ switch to balance or block and if you fail at it change the game
So after yesterday's lethal runs I stand corrected. The heavy bolter is the best for heavy as long as you use the 15% increased contested health perk. On lethal you can literally stand there unloading bullets and you are invincible. I face tanked 2 terminators on lethal during a reliquary run. It's freaking amazing!
That's if you have one target with alot of hp. Multiple targets and bolter is the weakest gun. Melta and plasma consistently 2 shot groups of majoris.
@ArthaxtaDaVince777 this is fact. I agree, however the survivabilty of the bolter with that perk is bonkers. Lol try it friend
@@deathbyspeed2 I will definitely give it a try
Block hits hard, fencing is for invulnerability, and balanced is just lacking now. Would it be too much to ask balance to utilize both potentially? Like for instance, the parry time can stay the same for balance, but make it so the block frames at the start can build adrenaline stacks.
Shouldn’t balance be an “in between” choice to block & fencing?
the blocking changes have 100% helped give a valid reason to run blocking weapons, and infact given more agressive players like me an improved melee option... however there is definately something wrong with the attack hitbox/hitbox frames on Minoris class enemies (gaunts and tzaangors) because i used to be able to parry minoris enemies and even after the 5.1 fix returned all other parrying back to normal it didn't fix minoris enemies... can't parry any minoris anymore which sorta wrecks parry focused bulwark builds that relyed on minoris parrys
Trying to parry in large minoris groups is still broken, so it's not reverted to pre patch as stated by the devs
Can you link the post?
Blocking weapons are still extremely underpowered, they cannot regain enough armor to recover from ranged damage and adrenaline surge is tedious to manage. Also, data miners have shown that the fencing parry window is not the same from patch 4.5 to 5.1, going from a total bonus of 660 to 330. There's a post on the focus forums from sciblob that shows the exact changes.
I swear these people are down right delusional and are just agreeing to what everyone says without using thier brain.
I haven't played the new patch yet so i'll ask, does 5.1 fencing need timing like in 5.0? Or is it back to pre 5.0 where you can press parry yesterday and parry 400 attacks for free
I feel like the fencing frames have been slightly tweaked. It’s not a no brainer-button press anymore
Yeah there's a post on the focus forums by sciblob that has datamined values that show the fencing parry window has gone from a total of 660 to 330
@ bummer. Been wanting to try blocking anyway
Fenc is just a better option, like every single game has the strongest and the weakest of something still all of them still playable. To be real if you are not doing something like solo lethal you shouldn't even care about that.
I been running block weapons & average around 19K melee damage so I think it feels great jus gotta stay mobile
Blocking still sucks, zero improvement on the actual mechanics, you get absolutely wrecked by three melee warriors or a hormigant wave
To the comment about parrying everything all day long:
If you are surrounded and can parry everything all day long, the parry is broken and if you want to play like that go ahead and install cheats.
Fencing is back to being broken af and wildly OP. They just needed to give it an extra .10 on the perfect window and it would have been fine. Unfortunately the "I wanna win by spamming 1 button" crowd is *very* vocal and rather than having a compelling melee system that rewarded precision we have 1 objectively correct weapon that outperforms all others in all situation. If they are gonna leave fencing this easy to parry with then the fencing gun-strikes need to lose their difficulty scalar and have their overall damage reduced by 25-30%. The people that crutch fencing like this are the same ones who grab the servo skull and never shoot the Hierophant, fuck up the island rotation in Obelisk, and fuck up the train puzzle in Fall of Atreus. Spoon feeding victory and positive feedback to people who never earned it is objectively detrimental to the rest of the player base. Feeling like God and effortlessly destroying everything in your path in Lethal is something that a few top players get to do because they earned it. Making everything so easy that everybody can do it removes all the value of the accomplishment, everything just becomes a participation trophy. If you dont have skills, and still want to feel godlike, then turn the difficulty down. Most people should feel appropriately challenged on Average, as that is literally he definition. People assuming that lethal clears are owed to them and demanding that the devs live up to that assumption are having a negative impact on the rest of us.
Who are you to tell others how to have fun? If you don’t find it fun, play something you do find fun.
Bro you are a god at making straw-man arguments. People complain about nerfs to fencing because the other options still suck. Doesn’t matter how much damage you deal with blocking weapons when the ranged damage gets rid of all your armor and health anyway, you can’t regain enough armor. Fencing weapons aren’t “OP,” they’re viable and the other options are not. You can struggle with relic-tier blocking weapons at the damn minimal difficulty level if you aren’t paying **very** close attention. Blocking and balance still need buffs, especially blocking, adrenaline surge is too tedious to manage.
This feels too easy now lol. I liked the bug or whatever it was, that actually made it more of a challenge