One thing that bothered me a bit about human languge being directional vs animal language being radiant is that the reason for that is community. Usually humans are in fixed groups of sorts, that idea now evolved to cities and even an online platform, however animal communication is also directional in groups. When a wolf is fighting another wolf for a mate for example, he is not growling into the nothingness of a forest, he is growling at his opponent specifically. Similarly, as soon as we are separated and alone, human communication becomes radiant as well, imagine somone stranded on an island writing "HELP" on the beach with sticks and stones in the hopes someone sees it, just like birds' mating calls. The example with someone talking to the camera is for me even more specific, since usually, one is not trying to communicate or have a conversation, one is trying to record knowledge for later or other humans. A TV broadcaster doesn't expect a response from viewers at home to whatever he says, unlike a bird thats is hoping for a response after every song from a mate.
relatively, inherently, and basicly developed. Awsome. I should be very greatful to let us discover more and more of your precious background knowledge. Thank you
Very pleased to have "discovered" your Channel. In some ways, to me, it feels like I am making a mid-career shift in my scholarly interests, although I am not without some background to make this happen - seemingly in a "smooth" manner. I can see myself going through your posted video series and am grateful to be able to do so. I noticed certain indicators or what I will call "linguistic markers" in your presentation - so much so that when you started to talk about these "back channel" responses and invited us to try this experiment where we don't respond or interact in this manner with others you then you do this eye brow raise. Deliberate or not, it seemed like a lovely example of this concept. (Or so I think.) Do seemingly mono-directional communication activities (like a posted video) *lack* back channel markers? And what should one make of the "pop" sound around 9:22? Is that a linguistic "thing"?
Thank you so much! But please from where can I get the book that you took this information from. I am making my research and I really need the book. Thank in advance.
Sir, Thank you for the brilliant lecture. I've got a couple of questions & comments:Q1. How can languages that have their own writing systems & languages that don't have it be equally evolved?Q2. If chemical-olfactory communication channel is not a language but is still a means of communication, then language is not the only means of communication. Right?Comment: In some cultures communication is asymetrical - men talk, women listen & follw the instructions.Q3. " There's nothing tree-ish about a tree". To a Chinese speaker the word tree is very tree-ish - 木; paddyfield is field-ish - 田. & What about onomatopoeia in English - a whizz sounds like a whizz? Q4. "Animal communication is not symbolic" ? - a male stickleback shows his belly not his penis to the female; a monkey's butt doesn't stand for butt, it stands for submissiveness. Q7. "Lying is absent from animal communication" . What about a caterpillr pretending to be a snake? Thank You
Chimps etc can give communication by facial muscle manipulation but an animal with no such ability yet have a complex communication system as the Orca. Orca have language? Orca pods have different dialects. They have a understanding of past, present , future, cause and effect, group planning. Only a true language can this be accomplished. Where do they fit in your parameter groupings?
Hi Erika, Thanks for bringing that up! Whale song is an extremely interesting phenomenon. The differences I see are the following: 1. Broadcast is radiant, rather than directional. 2. Communication is asymmetric, only male whales do the singing (in humpbacks at least). 3. No evidence of displacement. As far as we know whale song is not 'about' anything other than a current concern (such as finding a mate, saying hello, or communicating the presence of food). 4. No duality of patterning. Whale song cannot be analyzed into meaning-distinguishing phonemes and meaning-bearing morphemes. That said, it would be really cool if all of the above was wrong and you could learn 'Whale' as a second language. Best wishes, --Martin
My cat Bunny communicates with me in a human way when she wants to play. She says, "Ree-ree?" This isn't a sound that a cat would normally make, and she doesn't make this sound under any other circumstances. I think it's a one-word lingua franca.
Dusty, to me this isn't as much about having a rational, scientific argument but rather about a much less scientific end, namely keeping man in the center of creation. Many people will bend over backwards in order to keep animals animal and humans human in order to justify the extreme difference in how we treat homo sapiens compared to other animals. I'm hopeful this mindset will be overcome in our lifetime.
Thank you very much. i´m gettin smarter every day. May I raise a little objection to Nr. 13: Several animals are acutually lying e.g. the fork-tailed drongo, who imitates the warning call of meerkats (including the "all-clear"-call after the dromgo stole the food while the meerkats were hiding, in order to motivate them to come back and gather more food). Surely an exception that doesn´t mean you are wrong. I only mention it because you have to be prepared, that some day in the near future there will be a pitiless smartass in the very last row of your course, who has watched the National Geographic Channel all day during COVID19, telling you a didactic tale about the "african fork-tailed drongo".
Many thanks for your comment! And you're quite right, that guy from the very last row of the course actually *has* brought up the fork-tailed drongo, I think it was in 2017. To me, the question is this: Does the drongo have a theory of what meerkats think, or has it merely figured out that there are sounds that can make them go away?
@@MartinHilpert I knew it! There is always that smug guy in the last row. And you are totally right: My understanding is that a lie is not only the discrepancy between the reality and the portrayal, but also requires the ability of the liar to distinguish between one and the other. Although I know not much about the drongo, but I doubt that it knows what it is going on (@drongo: if you read this, sorry, no offense intended). But the idea of the "lying drongo" is so appealing because it variegates its behaviour and gives the impression of an elaborate concept.
One thing that bothered me a bit about human languge being directional vs animal language being radiant is that the reason for that is community. Usually humans are in fixed groups of sorts, that idea now evolved to cities and even an online platform, however animal communication is also directional in groups. When a wolf is fighting another wolf for a mate for example, he is not growling into the nothingness of a forest, he is growling at his opponent specifically. Similarly, as soon as we are separated and alone, human communication becomes radiant as well, imagine somone stranded on an island writing "HELP" on the beach with sticks and stones in the hopes someone sees it, just like birds' mating calls. The example with someone talking to the camera is for me even more specific, since usually, one is not trying to communicate or have a conversation, one is trying to record knowledge for later or other humans. A TV broadcaster doesn't expect a response from viewers at home to whatever he says, unlike a bird thats is hoping for a response after every song from a mate.
relatively, inherently, and basicly developed. Awsome. I should be very greatful to let us discover more and more of your precious background knowledge. Thank you
Very pleased to have "discovered" your Channel. In some ways, to me, it feels like I am making a mid-career shift in my scholarly interests, although I am not without some background to make this happen - seemingly in a "smooth" manner. I can see myself going through your posted video series and am grateful to be able to do so.
I noticed certain indicators or what I will call "linguistic markers" in your presentation - so much so that when you started to talk about these "back channel" responses and invited us to try this experiment where we don't respond or interact in this manner with others you then you do this eye brow raise. Deliberate or not, it seemed like a lovely example of this concept. (Or so I think.) Do seemingly mono-directional communication activities (like a posted video) *lack* back channel markers?
And what should one make of the "pop" sound around 9:22? Is that a linguistic "thing"?
Quite amusing, very clear and challaging for learners.... and experts, too.
Thank you so much! But please from where can I get the book that you took this information from. I am making my research and I really need the book. Thank in advance.
superb explanation. wat a smooth method
This was really helpful.
But, did you miss ‘specialization’?
Sir, Thank you for the brilliant lecture. I've got a couple of questions & comments:Q1. How can languages that have their own writing systems & languages that don't have it be equally evolved?Q2. If chemical-olfactory communication channel is not a language but is still a means of communication, then language is not the only means of communication. Right?Comment: In some cultures communication is asymetrical - men talk, women listen & follw the instructions.Q3. " There's nothing tree-ish about a tree". To a Chinese speaker the word tree is very tree-ish - 木; paddyfield is field-ish - 田. & What about onomatopoeia in English - a whizz sounds like a whizz? Q4. "Animal communication is not symbolic" ? - a male stickleback shows his belly not his penis to the female; a monkey's butt doesn't stand for butt, it stands for submissiveness. Q7. "Lying is absent from animal communication" . What about a caterpillr pretending to be a snake? Thank You
Chimps etc can give communication by facial muscle manipulation but an animal with no such ability yet have a complex communication system as the Orca. Orca have language? Orca pods have different dialects. They have a understanding of past, present , future, cause and effect, group planning. Only a true language can this be accomplished. Where do they fit in your parameter groupings?
That was very informative, thanks. Can you make a video about how many points dolphin languages cover? Subscribed.
Studying for CSET, thanks!
Every day I learn something news.
Thank you! Greetings from Poland
Elizabeth León Thanks for watching!
What about whale song? Every "human" characteristic of language applies to that as well.
Hi Erika,
Thanks for bringing that up! Whale song is an extremely interesting phenomenon. The differences I see are the following:
1. Broadcast is radiant, rather than directional.
2. Communication is asymmetric, only male whales do the singing (in humpbacks at least).
3. No evidence of displacement. As far as we know whale song is not 'about' anything other than a current concern (such as finding a mate, saying hello, or communicating the presence of food).
4. No duality of patterning. Whale song cannot be analyzed into meaning-distinguishing phonemes and meaning-bearing morphemes.
That said, it would be really cool if all of the above was wrong and you could learn 'Whale' as a second language.
Best wishes, --Martin
Thank you a lot from Iraq
Very useful..thank you!
Doesn't what badgers do when they pretend to be dead to deceive their predators count as prevarication?
My cat Bunny communicates with me in a human way when she wants to play. She says, "Ree-ree?" This isn't a sound that a cat would normally make, and she doesn't make this sound under any other circumstances. I think it's a one-word lingua franca.
Dusty, to me this isn't as much about having a rational, scientific argument but rather about a much less scientific end, namely keeping man in the center of creation. Many people will bend over backwards in order to keep animals animal and humans human in order to justify the extreme difference in how we treat homo sapiens compared to other animals. I'm hopeful this mindset will be overcome in our lifetime.
Very useful matterials
Thank you a lot Professor
thank you
You are best teacher
THANK YOU! AND I´LL REALLY APPRECIATE, A LOT ACTUALLY, IF YOU CAN SEND ME A TAPESCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO.
thank you🌸
Thank you very much. i´m gettin smarter every day. May I raise a little objection to Nr. 13: Several animals are acutually lying e.g. the fork-tailed drongo, who imitates the warning call of meerkats (including the "all-clear"-call after the dromgo stole the food while the meerkats were hiding, in order to motivate them to come back and gather more food). Surely an exception that doesn´t mean you are wrong. I only mention it because you have to be prepared, that some day in the near future there will be a pitiless smartass in the very last row of your course, who has watched the National Geographic Channel all day during COVID19, telling you a didactic tale about the "african fork-tailed drongo".
Many thanks for your comment! And you're quite right, that guy from the very last row of the course actually *has* brought up the fork-tailed drongo, I think it was in 2017. To me, the question is this: Does the drongo have a theory of what meerkats think, or has it merely figured out that there are sounds that can make them go away?
@@MartinHilpert I knew it! There is always that smug guy in the last row. And you are totally right: My understanding is that a lie is not only the discrepancy between the reality and the portrayal, but also requires the ability of the liar to distinguish between one and the other. Although I know not much about the drongo, but I doubt that it knows what it is going on (@drongo: if you read this, sorry, no offense intended). But the idea of the "lying drongo" is so appealing because it variegates its behaviour and gives the impression of an elaborate concept.
@@BadKittenOnline Drongo left the chat, lol.
tnx
fera