For anyone wondering about the performance of the Saturn Core, its still in active development by someone in a Country currently under attack/invasion from an aggressor nation to it's North. So, the fact that it exists at all is impressive, but, its being worked on, and it will be as close as SRG can get it (which is to say, probably 99.99% accurate) when its finally finished. The PS1 core is very mature, and the N64 one is considered completed, but they're still adding some new tweaks too it.
Yeah, the two things that finally sold me on getting a a Mister set up like Mister Pi were the cost and the state of 5th gen console support these days.
Regarding any layer priority issues in the GBA core (or others)... I recommend you start writing down any issues you noticed and file bug reports with the devs... as they may be able to fix it. I have seen many an update with the description being fixing an issue in one particular game... so I know they do often care and sometimes fix things. I can't speak for others but I've not really noticed any FPGA snobs. In fact, both of them predominant MiSTer RUclipsrs (PCN and VGE) go out of their way to not disparage software-based emulation and mention that they use it quite often themselves. I think most of us are use-all-the-tools kinda folks... so I apologize on behalf of any of the FPGA snobs you have encountered. I avoid all social media except for RUclips... and a few Discord-based communities.
Sure, not a bad idea to keep track and pass info along when I can. I chat a bit with VGE semi-regularly so he's definitely not who I was talking about, his channel helped get my interest in FPGA gaming back up to where it had been earlier. And no need for you to apologize, but I appreciate it anyway. Personally I'm for all the methods of preserving and playing classic games that are out there and just sharing the differences between them.
Just got one of these this week.. the arcade board simulations have been worth it alone. Right now loading up my collection of games on it and enjoying it immensely.
It's been fun to mess around with and I can see making it my goto device for certain types of games. On the flipside, all the FPGA snobs on social media definitely oversold mister's "perfection" in general. The $650+ a full mister setup was going for recently was just nowhere near worth it, but at $95 to $180 with most of what you need, I'd say it's definitely worth it.
@@InglebardGaming Very much true.. though I have compared such on 2 PVM's to my Neo Geo AES and MVS. The results have been VERY good.. Will need to compare it to the Neo Geo CD. It also plays a MEAN game of Donkey Kong and Pac Man.
Yeah, I understand that. I'm also not knocking the devs working on them. Just the people who tear other people down for playing on anything other than FPGA. I haven't seen it as much lately, but I was scarred for life by the huge amount of jerks I saw a few years ago, lol. They were just so relentlessly mean to anyone that disagreed with them.
Its far superior to software emulation if you consider to preserve retro gaming. Its more true to the original way to play like the games were intented. For me its a must have
Whether or not it's superior at all depends on the accuracy of the core. Some GBA games that run fine on certain emulators have glitches or issues in the MiSTer core, for example. I'm not knocking it or any of the developers working on them. It's just not automatically better, everything depends on humans entering info so there's always room for error.
Side comment - today I located my cabling for my n64 and hooked up SM64 with an original controller for the first time in a decade. I forgot that feeling; I also immediately hated my Brawler64 USB as a result :/ there’s such a huge difference in gameplay when the controller doesn’t feel right, which I think translates to the 9:10 discussion.
Nice overview of someone new to MiSTer. I've had mine a few years and its great. Very nice for CRT connections, especially to get the oft forgotten PAL output when that's your nostalgia. The errors are often fun, so many odd things you see scrutinising MiSTer end up matching hardware when people have checked. But, your 100% right, it is not error free, and FPGA is not instantly perfection. The community is great to investigate things when people highlight them though. Lots of audio improvements, that hopefully get ported onto software emulators also. Lots of cool people around Discord too. Always good to stay clear of the snobs. Anyone playing retro games in 202X, any which way at all is great! Just one of many options
Yeah, it's a great option especially when the price is right. I fully have to admit the snobs and toxic evangelists turned me off mister completely for a while. There were so many who just insisted that it was perfect and anyone who disagreed was an idiot. For me, at $500 plus, I think it's kind of insane. But at $100-200, it's a great option for 5th gen and earlier systems. I'll show more here in future videos, too. For the record, in Top Gear GBA, I checked and the real system doesn't have the sprite priority issue I showed in this video 😁
I built my first MiSTer back in 2018 when the original DE-10 Nano still cost 130€ (VAT included). Before that I had an FPGA MiST (bought in 2015). So yeah, long time user and fan of the system. Still looking forward to new arcade cores and features being added to exisitng cores. Even bought a 2nd DE-10 Nano board right before COVID hit and the prices went up. Also looking forward to the new models that Taki Udon is working on. 👍
There's a few other things coming (from multiple sources, even) that might make the platform even more convenient, including complete consoles from a few sources that are all-in-one with lots of ports and stuff. No prices have been announced for any of those yet, but if they can stay in the $100 to $150 range, I think they could be (relatively) big hits. They just really need to simplify the experience before it can go more mainstream.
My original MiSTer setup probably cost me about £400 in total to put together, and it was probably the best gaming investment I ever made. I didn't even own a USB keyboard so I that includes all hidden costs and extra controllers / adaptors that I couldn't resist. I went for a Multisystem because it had a consolised form factor, an RGB SCART port, a power switch and didn't look like an amateur electronics project. I still have all my real hardware hooked up (the MiSTer slotted into the chain like everything else) but I'd be lying if I said much of it gets used these days. For my use case (arcade / retro enthusiast with no interest in save states/ advanced emulator functions or using modern display) I can't imagine another gaming device ever meeting my needs as well. Users like me are now getting a second MiSTer because holy hell a complete MiSTer Pi worked out to something like £148 delivered - it's no longer something behind a somewhat 'elitist' or boutique paywall. Regardless, I'm keen to see how your MiSTer Pi ownership influences / enhances your comparison videos. I think the combination of your keen eye and distain for the evangelical branch of the community could result in some very entertaining work.
Thanks, appreciate the confidence! I won't be using it for every comparison but I will definitely work it into plenty of videos in the future. Semi-related, the multisystem 2 is coming soonish including the fpga built right into it, so I might look into that, too, but don't know if I'll be buying that, not exactly rolling in cash from the channel.
Well, it's no secret, lol. When I did live video every week, well, I never saw anyone but they saw me, so I couldn't say "see YOU later" but since everyone watching saw me, they COULD in fact "see me later."
I love the Mister, opted for the DE10 nano and analogue card so I could use on a CRT. It's become my most used device, even more so than the original consoles. You'll have to change your KoFi goal now 🙂
It's definitely coming along. I think it's a pretty good value proposition these days with the cost of a Mister Pi and support for Saturn, PS1 and N64.
Nice video. I'm receiving my Mister Pi kit next week, and the one from QMTech a few weeks later. I'm currently playing Goldeneye on the original N64, and it's awesome, but either my Ultra HDMI mod, the Everdrive or the console itself are starting to glitch out (I suspect the Everdrive, though). But I can barely wait to test NES/GB/SNES/PS1/N64/Saturn on the Mister. Then, maybe, I can put my PS1, Saturn and N64 into storage somewhere, to de-clutter my gaming room.
I saw that you were talking a lot about latency. While playing Alien - Resurrection on the original PS1 (SD card modded, connected to a Retrotink 5 Pro), there are some instanced where an alien waits for you immediately after opening a door. On a midrange Samsung QLED with 20 ms latency, I could kill those in 50% of instances with a direct shotgun blast in the face, even if I knew exactly when the aliens would appear. Now, with an LG C3, which has ~7 ms latency, I can kill them in 90% of cases. It's all about the lag, and those 13 ms difference between my old and new TV are a huge deal. I used a DS4 with a Brook PS1/PS2 wireless adapter, so that would add another ~15 ms.
From the stuff I've tested so far, I can tell you that you'll probably be very happy with it. You'll want to enable fast USB polling if your controller of choice supports it for even better response times. And yeah, the TV you're using can make a huge difference. I've had some older LCDs that were insanely bad with their lag time. But even the cheap Hi-Sense big screen I have now is pretty good in game mode. I doubt I'll ever hook it up to my or any CRT since it just doesn't feel like it's necessary.
@@InglebardGaming I'll probably use a dualsense in wireless mode, which can support an insane polling rate (don't know yet how that will work out with #that BT/wifi dongle). I've also heard that it's a little bit better than a DS4 latency wise. I'll see how the compatibility with Mister is. As a fallback I have an F710 with a direct USB dongle, which I also use with Evercade.
A good friend of mine has a Mister which I’ve also played on. I certainly enjoyed the experience compared to standard emulation but agree you need to don your homework first. I plan to get one of these at some point, but think I’ll wait for future revisions.
Yeah, it's pretty cool as long as you're getting it for the right reasons. And it's not something that every type of gamer needs. The upcoming FPGA multi-system consoles from a few different places might be the way to go.
The main reason I'd consider a FPGA solution would be Sega Saturn, as from PS1 and below, we can even surpass original hardware/game design input lag using solutions such as runahead and preemptive frames. Capcom games, specially arcade ones are notorious for having input delay in order to give the moves/punches/kicks more weight, this is also true for the likes of King of Fighter games, and while this is OK, these games just feel better with that out of the equation, specially nowadays. As for the Saturn, there are a few games we can reduce input delay in Retroarch (Beetle Core), but this core still eats a ton of CPU cycles and maybe in the near future, it will be as feasible as the PS1 in this regard, but today, I can only see the FGPA as the go-to solution (not considering real hardware, of course) for great Saturn emulation with the least input delay possible. Still, I'm not picking one as I'm not THAT into it enough, but IF I was to pick one, Saturn would be the only reason. Even though I'm really happy with the current state of Saturn emulation in Retroarch (Mednafen/Beetle Core).
Yeah, Saturn is a great reason to consider one of these now. While Saturn emulation is basically fine these days through stuff like Beetle Saturn, a mister pi setup with everything you need is competitive with a bunch of other solutions and has the bonus of reduced input delay.
@@InglebardGaming Other benefits from solutions such as Retroarch is its portability, we can share the same settings and control remaps across a wide range of devices. Software emulation also allows for increased performance, for instance, the best Road Rash is the original 3DO version, but it's the slowest compared to the ports, now we can increase the base console CPU hundreds of times, making the game smooth as butter, with runahead/preemptive frames, if the CPU can handle all that, it's way better than the original console. All the above are but a few examples where I think software emulation is just more convenient and more powerful, this is not touching NDS, PS2, PSP, Xbox, Dreamcast and other systems that are only possible with this approach, at least for the foreseeable future. But again, I have a soft spot for the Saturn and would be really nice to have a FPGA with a small Saturn console case on top of that.
There is a reboot button on top of the Mister and MiSter Pi so you really do not have to pull the power out. A real advantage is that its so small you can have it sitting near your TV in your lounge and it wont be noticed like a PC.
The reboot button doesn't turn the power off, it just restarts the system. You can also do that from the on-screen display menu. But there is no way in the menu or on the mister pi to turn it all the way off and leave it that way. You have to unplug it, turn off a power strip, or use an ac adapter with a power switch on the cable, as I mentioned in the video.
The menu is definitely very old school and not exactly user friendly. I cut some stuff from the video because I removed a section for time, but I meant to keep a part where I said that unless you want one for the snappier input or simpler analog display connections... you really don't need one. It's good and worthwhile in many scenarios, but not all of them. If you're mainly an RPG fan, for example, I'd say the MiSTer experience is worse than through software emulation.
For anyone wondering about the performance of the Saturn Core, its still in active development by someone in a Country currently under attack/invasion from an aggressor nation to it's North. So, the fact that it exists at all is impressive, but, its being worked on, and it will be as close as SRG can get it (which is to say, probably 99.99% accurate) when its finally finished. The PS1 core is very mature, and the N64 one is considered completed, but they're still adding some new tweaks too it.
Yeah, the two things that finally sold me on getting a a Mister set up like Mister Pi were the cost and the state of 5th gen console support these days.
Regarding any layer priority issues in the GBA core (or others)... I recommend you start writing down any issues you noticed and file bug reports with the devs... as they may be able to fix it. I have seen many an update with the description being fixing an issue in one particular game... so I know they do often care and sometimes fix things.
I can't speak for others but I've not really noticed any FPGA snobs. In fact, both of them predominant MiSTer RUclipsrs (PCN and VGE) go out of their way to not disparage software-based emulation and mention that they use it quite often themselves. I think most of us are use-all-the-tools kinda folks... so I apologize on behalf of any of the FPGA snobs you have encountered. I avoid all social media except for RUclips... and a few Discord-based communities.
Sure, not a bad idea to keep track and pass info along when I can. I chat a bit with VGE semi-regularly so he's definitely not who I was talking about, his channel helped get my interest in FPGA gaming back up to where it had been earlier.
And no need for you to apologize, but I appreciate it anyway. Personally I'm for all the methods of preserving and playing classic games that are out there and just sharing the differences between them.
Just got one of these this week.. the arcade board simulations have been worth it alone.
Right now loading up my collection of games on it and enjoying it immensely.
It's been fun to mess around with and I can see making it my goto device for certain types of games.
On the flipside, all the FPGA snobs on social media definitely oversold mister's "perfection" in general. The $650+ a full mister setup was going for recently was just nowhere near worth it, but at $95 to $180 with most of what you need, I'd say it's definitely worth it.
@@InglebardGaming Very much true.. though I have compared such on 2 PVM's to my Neo Geo AES and MVS. The results have been VERY good.. Will need to compare it to the Neo Geo CD. It also plays a MEAN game of Donkey Kong and Pac Man.
@@InglebardGaming Of course not every core is 100% accurate, but many are. People test that stuff.
Yeah, I understand that. I'm also not knocking the devs working on them. Just the people who tear other people down for playing on anything other than FPGA.
I haven't seen it as much lately, but I was scarred for life by the huge amount of jerks I saw a few years ago, lol. They were just so relentlessly mean to anyone that disagreed with them.
Its far superior to software emulation if you consider to preserve retro gaming. Its more true to the original way to play like the games were intented. For me its a must have
Whether or not it's superior at all depends on the accuracy of the core. Some GBA games that run fine on certain emulators have glitches or issues in the MiSTer core, for example.
I'm not knocking it or any of the developers working on them. It's just not automatically better, everything depends on humans entering info so there's always room for error.
Side comment - today I located my cabling for my n64 and hooked up SM64 with an original controller for the first time in a decade.
I forgot that feeling; I also immediately hated my Brawler64 USB as a result :/ there’s such a huge difference in gameplay when the controller doesn’t feel right, which I think translates to the 9:10 discussion.
Nice overview of someone new to MiSTer. I've had mine a few years and its great. Very nice for CRT connections, especially to get the oft forgotten PAL output when that's your nostalgia. The errors are often fun, so many odd things you see scrutinising MiSTer end up matching hardware when people have checked. But, your 100% right, it is not error free, and FPGA is not instantly perfection. The community is great to investigate things when people highlight them though. Lots of audio improvements, that hopefully get ported onto software emulators also. Lots of cool people around Discord too. Always good to stay clear of the snobs. Anyone playing retro games in 202X, any which way at all is great! Just one of many options
Yeah, it's a great option especially when the price is right. I fully have to admit the snobs and toxic evangelists turned me off mister completely for a while. There were so many who just insisted that it was perfect and anyone who disagreed was an idiot.
For me, at $500 plus, I think it's kind of insane. But at $100-200, it's a great option for 5th gen and earlier systems. I'll show more here in future videos, too.
For the record, in Top Gear GBA, I checked and the real system doesn't have the sprite priority issue I showed in this video 😁
I built my first MiSTer back in 2018 when the original DE-10 Nano still cost 130€ (VAT included). Before that I had an FPGA MiST (bought in 2015). So yeah, long time user and fan of the system. Still looking forward to new arcade cores and features being added to exisitng cores. Even bought a 2nd DE-10 Nano board right before COVID hit and the prices went up. Also looking forward to the new models that Taki Udon is working on. 👍
There's a few other things coming (from multiple sources, even) that might make the platform even more convenient, including complete consoles from a few sources that are all-in-one with lots of ports and stuff.
No prices have been announced for any of those yet, but if they can stay in the $100 to $150 range, I think they could be (relatively) big hits. They just really need to simplify the experience before it can go more mainstream.
My original MiSTer setup probably cost me about £400 in total to put together, and it was probably the best gaming investment I ever made. I didn't even own a USB keyboard so I that includes all hidden costs and extra controllers / adaptors that I couldn't resist. I went for a Multisystem because it had a consolised form factor, an RGB SCART port, a power switch and didn't look like an amateur electronics project. I still have all my real hardware hooked up (the MiSTer slotted into the chain like everything else) but I'd be lying if I said much of it gets used these days. For my use case (arcade / retro enthusiast with no interest in save states/ advanced emulator functions or using modern display) I can't imagine another gaming device ever meeting my needs as well. Users like me are now getting a second MiSTer because holy hell a complete MiSTer Pi worked out to something like £148 delivered - it's no longer something behind a somewhat 'elitist' or boutique paywall. Regardless, I'm keen to see how your MiSTer Pi ownership influences / enhances your comparison videos. I think the combination of your keen eye and distain for the evangelical branch of the community could result in some very entertaining work.
Thanks, appreciate the confidence! I won't be using it for every comparison but I will definitely work it into plenty of videos in the future. Semi-related, the multisystem 2 is coming soonish including the fpga built right into it, so I might look into that, too, but don't know if I'll be buying that, not exactly rolling in cash from the channel.
Cool Vid as always thanks Inglebard Gaming even after all these years of watching I think I just figured out why you say see me later haha
Well, it's no secret, lol. When I did live video every week, well, I never saw anyone but they saw me, so I couldn't say "see YOU later" but since everyone watching saw me, they COULD in fact "see me later."
I love the Mister, opted for the DE10 nano and analogue card so I could use on a CRT. It's become my most used device, even more so than the original consoles. You'll have to change your KoFi goal now 🙂
It's definitely coming along. I think it's a pretty good value proposition these days with the cost of a Mister Pi and support for Saturn, PS1 and N64.
Nice video. I'm receiving my Mister Pi kit next week, and the one from QMTech a few weeks later. I'm currently playing Goldeneye on the original N64, and it's awesome, but either my Ultra HDMI mod, the Everdrive or the console itself are starting to glitch out (I suspect the Everdrive, though).
But I can barely wait to test NES/GB/SNES/PS1/N64/Saturn on the Mister. Then, maybe, I can put my PS1, Saturn and N64 into storage somewhere, to de-clutter my gaming room.
I saw that you were talking a lot about latency. While playing Alien - Resurrection on the original PS1 (SD card modded, connected to a Retrotink 5 Pro), there are some instanced where an alien waits for you immediately after opening a door.
On a midrange Samsung QLED with 20 ms latency, I could kill those in 50% of instances with a direct shotgun blast in the face, even if I knew exactly when the aliens would appear.
Now, with an LG C3, which has ~7 ms latency, I can kill them in 90% of cases. It's all about the lag, and those 13 ms difference between my old and new TV are a huge deal.
I used a DS4 with a Brook PS1/PS2 wireless adapter, so that would add another ~15 ms.
From the stuff I've tested so far, I can tell you that you'll probably be very happy with it. You'll want to enable fast USB polling if your controller of choice supports it for even better response times.
And yeah, the TV you're using can make a huge difference. I've had some older LCDs that were insanely bad with their lag time. But even the cheap Hi-Sense big screen I have now is pretty good in game mode. I doubt I'll ever hook it up to my or any CRT since it just doesn't feel like it's necessary.
@@InglebardGaming I'll probably use a dualsense in wireless mode, which can support an insane polling rate (don't know yet how that will work out with #that BT/wifi dongle). I've also heard that it's a little bit better than a DS4 latency wise. I'll see how the compatibility with Mister is. As a fallback I have an F710 with a direct USB dongle, which I also use with Evercade.
A good friend of mine has a Mister which I’ve also played on. I certainly enjoyed the experience compared to standard emulation but agree you need to don your homework first. I plan to get one of these at some point, but think I’ll wait for future revisions.
Yeah, it's pretty cool as long as you're getting it for the right reasons. And it's not something that every type of gamer needs. The upcoming FPGA multi-system consoles from a few different places might be the way to go.
The main reason I'd consider a FPGA solution would be Sega Saturn, as from PS1 and below, we can even surpass original hardware/game design input lag using solutions such as runahead and preemptive frames. Capcom games, specially arcade ones are notorious for having input delay in order to give the moves/punches/kicks more weight, this is also true for the likes of King of Fighter games, and while this is OK, these games just feel better with that out of the equation, specially nowadays.
As for the Saturn, there are a few games we can reduce input delay in Retroarch (Beetle Core), but this core still eats a ton of CPU cycles and maybe in the near future, it will be as feasible as the PS1 in this regard, but today, I can only see the FGPA as the go-to solution (not considering real hardware, of course) for great Saturn emulation with the least input delay possible.
Still, I'm not picking one as I'm not THAT into it enough, but IF I was to pick one, Saturn would be the only reason. Even though I'm really happy with the current state of Saturn emulation in Retroarch (Mednafen/Beetle Core).
Yeah, Saturn is a great reason to consider one of these now. While Saturn emulation is basically fine these days through stuff like Beetle Saturn, a mister pi setup with everything you need is competitive with a bunch of other solutions and has the bonus of reduced input delay.
@@InglebardGaming Other benefits from solutions such as Retroarch is its portability, we can share the same settings and control remaps across a wide range of devices. Software emulation also allows for increased performance, for instance, the best Road Rash is the original 3DO version, but it's the slowest compared to the ports, now we can increase the base console CPU hundreds of times, making the game smooth as butter, with runahead/preemptive frames, if the CPU can handle all that, it's way better than the original console.
All the above are but a few examples where I think software emulation is just more convenient and more powerful, this is not touching NDS, PS2, PSP, Xbox, Dreamcast and other systems that are only possible with this approach, at least for the foreseeable future.
But again, I have a soft spot for the Saturn and would be really nice to have a FPGA with a small Saturn console case on top of that.
There is a reboot button on top of the Mister and MiSter Pi so you really do not have to pull the power out. A real advantage is that its so small you can have it sitting near your TV in your lounge and it wont be noticed like a PC.
The reboot button doesn't turn the power off, it just restarts the system. You can also do that from the on-screen display menu. But there is no way in the menu or on the mister pi to turn it all the way off and leave it that way. You have to unplug it, turn off a power strip, or use an ac adapter with a power switch on the cable, as I mentioned in the video.
@@InglebardGaming Or with a USB-A to C cable with integrated power switch. I have two of those, originally bought for my Raspberry Pi 4.
[MiST] [Ter] MiST + Terrasic .... first time I've heard that explaination!
Let it never be said my channel isn't educational 😁
A very helpful video, thanks. I've been eyeing the Mister up for years, but I'm still sold on it. I have to say that the menu is horrible on it.
The menu is definitely very old school and not exactly user friendly. I cut some stuff from the video because I removed a section for time, but I meant to keep a part where I said that unless you want one for the snappier input or simpler analog display connections... you really don't need one. It's good and worthwhile in many scenarios, but not all of them. If you're mainly an RPG fan, for example, I'd say the MiSTer experience is worse than through software emulation.