@@annieo6527 Not to nitpick but I think the word "normal" is wrong here. Brooke going through the Forrester men is _objectively_ not normal because almost nobody does that. You don't need a specialist opinion to declare it abnormal. I think what Taylor means is it's _unhealthy_ which is more of a subjective value judgment or medical opinion. It's a small thing but it always bugs me when they use the wrong word like this in dialogue.
@@NewYorkNick0607 you are right of course! Brooke's relationships are not objectively _normal_ in the sense that they are not "middle of the bell cu r ve" material (although they may in fact be in the middle of the _Bell_ cu r ve). And they are _also_ not healthy, which of course was the point Taylor was trying to make.
@@hraslandifference is they were never married when she got involved with them, and she never had to question her kids paternity between family members either. Nice deflection off Brooke though
She should told him no when he was sniffing around her she knew who she wanted in their family it was Ridge and Eric knew that Brooke was Ridge forever he could call her to his bed Brooke and men in Forrester was sex craze people calling it love that sick telling them Hyprocrite is right Taylor and Stephanie, Bridget should’ve kick them to curb💕
Taylor was stunningly beautiful back then and was the voice of reason. Also Eric had much more common sense. The writers really ruined the storyline in the new show.
*Amber & Tawny's division of labor* The Amber/Tawny dynamic is one where her mother comes up with the crazy schemes (like using Becky's baby to deceive Rick) and does the outlandish stuff (like threatening Kimberly with a 🔫) so Amber doesn't have to, so Amber can remain somewhat root-able for the viewer. We've seen this dynamic before. In her original run on the show, Sheila often functioned this way for Brooke, doing the truly bad/illegal stuff that Brooke needed doing (like tampering with Bridget's paternity) but that Brooke would never do because she's not actually a villain. This is what makes Amber a similar type to Brooke -- she's a Bad Girl but not a villain. However, Sheila did that stuff in secret and helping Brooke was just a side effect of trying to help herself. Sheila and Brooke's goals were aligned but Sheila wasn't functioning as a maternal figure or caretaker of Brooke's storyline in the same way that Tawny is for Amber. Instead this mother/daughter dynamic more resembles the one Stephanie has/had with Taylor. Especially when Taylor and Ridge were married the first time, Stephanie was often the one pushing Taylor to act, coming up with schemes to neutralize Brooke, and gloating whenever Taylor came out on top. This "division of labor" allowed Taylor to keep her hands clean and remain the Good Girl with Taylor often resisting Stephanie's plans and showing compassion for Brooke. Similarly here we have Amber the Bad Girl who nevertheless retains viewer sympathy and doesn't tip over into outright villainy because her mother carries that load for her. It's Tawny who suggests that Amber get pregnant to secure her place with Rick (just as Stephanie once suggested to Taylor to "even the score" with Brooke) and it's Amber who resists and shows real regret over lying to Rick and Amber even "saves" Kimberly from her mother. Thus we get an interesting mirror of the Stephanie/Taylor dynamic in Tawny & Amber and this also has the effect of preventing Amber and Brooke from fully assuming the obvious roles in their rivalry. If Amber is a "Bad Girl" version of Taylor, then she's not really the new Brooke and if Tawny is a cartoonishly bad Stephanie, then Brooke can't become the Forrester matriarch either.
This post is just full of good observations! I like your point about how the show splits a character in two so one part can remain untainted by the bad acts of the other part. And it's true, I always thought of Amber as the new Brooke and that they were trying to make Brooke the Stephanie in this scenario (the disapproving mother-in-law) but you're right it's more complicated than that.
Excellent analysis! And yes, it is clear that by Tawny shouldering the clear "villain" role, Amber stays redeemable in spite of taking part in something that should not be possible to forgive. We talked about Bill vs Brad Bell in another post, and I can see this being another one of those instances where there are "two visions". I can picture Brad having the idea of recreating the Stephanie/Brooke dynamic with Brooke/Amber (in keeping with the less functional "mimicry characterization" of Brooke that we see from 1995 onwards), and the transformation of that into something more complex by the introduction of Tawny feels more like something Bill Bell would do (since, like you pointed out, it mirrors the relationships between Brooke and Sheila, and Stephanie and Taylor).
@@annieo6527 Yes exactly! And in fact Amber/Tawny/Rick resemble Brad's previous (lamer) attempt with Jessica/Maggie/Dylan: low class outsiders, hick mom, an under-aged relationship. But the storyline is SO much better and has Bill Bell's fingerprints all over it. Also the show is already starting to feel campier which is definitely a Brad touch but as we see later on, when his father isn't around, he can only do _bad_ camp.
This being 'madly in love with Thorne' phase of Brooke's won't last long. Very soon she'll be right back to calling Ridge her destiny (🤮) and trying to break up his marriage to Taylor. 🤨
Eric! You should get a restraining order on yourself! I do have to say that what Thorne said was right. Eric and Ridge definitely had a part in where Steffany is today!
Taylor found Brooke _all over_ the pages of the DSM! Seriously though, I think Taylor's is actually the _correct_ interpretation of what is going on with Thorne and Brooke here (I wrote a separate post about it). And the interesting thing is that right now, the narrative seems to be "with" Taylor, while as the storyline progresses, the writing will draw the _viewer_ into the "folly".
I must say, I was surprised with the Amber-Rick-Kimberley drama. With Rick daydreaming about Kimberley and his recent rage because of the gun incident, I didn't expect the boy to still honor his marriage. Rick surprised me but I liked his commitment to his -not- son and his marriage.
Eric the same during belief saga. He is the first hypocritical, even if he does the right thing supporting Stephanie in her heath and emotinal condotions for once .But he will not have great ideas to prevent the marriage and also he will have an awful idea just as in the belief time .
*Taylor Chooses Her Archetype (Good Girl) over Her Role (The Wife)* In episode 3185, I wrote that Taylor advising Brooke to stay with Thorne had a selfish motivation because it would also keep Brooke away from Ridge. However now we see Taylor advising Brooke against her interests. After researching and concluding that their relationship is unhealthy, Taylor chooses to tell Brooke the truth rather than continue supporting an unhealthy relationship just because it might benefit her personally. This is Taylor being true to her Good Girl archetype and it's actually the harder thing to do because it comes with real costs: it destroys her friendship with Brooke and makes her own marriage more vulnerable. When Thorne and Brooke inevitably fall apart as Taylor seems certain they will, that means Brooke will come to terms with the fact that the man she really wants is Ridge (and that Thorne is just a substitute for him) and she will have no guilt about pursuing him because she already views Taylor as someone who betrayed her and ended their detente. I've written before how The Good Girl and The Wife are Taylor's ideal archetype and role. When I argued that she often uses therapy to drive the plot in her direction, I didn't mean that she manipulated her professional advice to suit her interests but rather that doling out good advice was often in sync with her interests because of her noble archetype and role. However there have been times when the two are in conflict and what we see now is Taylor choosing to be true to her Good Girl archetype over maintaining her position as The Wife. She's giving the correct advice regardless of the threat it poses to her marriage. This is similar to what happened in Season 8 when Taylor came back from Morocco to reclaim Ridge after initially making a sacrifice for him to be happy with Brooke (see my post in episode 2083). In that situation, the archetype and role were in conflict because if Ridge chose Taylor and made her The Wife again, then her sacrifice would be meaningless and thus her Good-ness would not be restored. Instead, Ridge honored Taylor's sacrifice by choosing Brooke and thus Taylor lost her Wife position but regained her Good Girl status. And now here in Season 13 we see Taylor making the same choice to prioritize her archetype over her role.
What do you mean by why?? Just finally accept and respect other people’s opinions! People like who they want! Every time someone likes Tridge or Taylor, you feel the urge to comment they suck…. And you did that yesterday too! It even was the same user! Geez……🤦♀️🫣🥱and nope, I can’t stand Kimberley, she sucks!!
I think the most pathological here is Taylor: first, she convinced Brooke to try to make amends with Stephanie supporting her and Thorne relationship and then, immediately after speakingwith Ridge, she changed her mind and keeps talking about mental desease. And she is a psychiatrist...
Well I don't think Brooke is to blame for everything. They say its disgusting she went after son and father but didn't Eric persue her knowing she was his sons ex lover and then went after Taylor and slept with her. And what about Taylor sleeping with Eric isnt he the father of her ex husband and not to mention carrying on with Brooke's son. Forgods sake Ridge even had an affair with little Bridget. Is that all excusable and Brooke is the only wrong one. I DONT THINK SO.
But nothing of what you're saying, except Eric ( who married a pregnant Brooke, so I assume the chase went well for him) has happened yet. I'm sure there are plenty of comments like yours undes the episodes where those things actually happened. After 2002. Probably only Brooke fans are still watching them, since there is nothing even near to the old B&B except again, Brooke.
@@babs4848 exactly - post 2002 B&B might as well be a different show altogether. On _this_ show (1999 B&B), none of that has happened, nor is there any indication in the writing that it _could_ happen. These things do not, as yet, exist in the writing.
Taylor hasn't slept with Eric yet on these episodes. Of course they had already had a short thing, and Taylor indeed was FULLY willing to sleep with him, as she entered his bedroom and didn't because she found Stephanie in his bed and decided to sacrifice/was scared of Stephanie and her always excessive reactions. And she has already been in a kind of a relationship with Thorne already. She is ahead of Brooke already in these episodes minus the s ex (because Taylor is a virgin😂😂) because apparently that's the thing. Brooke has s ex.
In 1999 we already had had Eric and Thorne trying to get Taylor _former daughter-in-law/sister-in-law_ into the bed. Both only have succeeded in getting dates and swapping saliva with Taylor but failed to get to the next stage. We have to thank Stephanie that she beat Taylor in 1996 and was already in Eric's bed when Taylor gave Eric a more serious consideration. And yes, Taylor didn't do the chasing, but she didn't have to entertain the Forrester men either and to go along with dating, joining Thorne on a trip to Hawai, letting the family think that Thorne was the father of her unborn child in 1997.... . In today's episode they all only focus on Thorne's tendency to go after Ridge's ex-lovers, but Eric's gets ignored. 🙈 But yes, in 2024 they all could get back to that talk and the fact that all Forresters like to go after Ridge's ex-lovers or how the women always end up with his family members, Taylor and Brooke even both have been married to his half-brother Nick (no Forrester member). But the writing during these years already had everyone act as if it was totally normal. Eric's grandkids Steffy and Thomas didn't have any issue with granddad Eric dating their mom, they just dropped the _granddad_ part.
*Folie à deux* Taylor's "folie à deux" comment is interesting, because the way it is being portrayed now, it's still an open question whether her professional opinion is valid or whether it's an unfair judgement on the "star-crossed lovers" Thorne and Brooke. The writers seem to be showing both sides - Eric, Ridge and Taylor tell their side of the narrative to the viewer, while Brooke and Thorne tell theirs (which is that their relationship is a love story, and Brooke is the true "romantic heroine" that she always pictured herself to be). But not too far into the future, Taylor will be unambiguously proven _right._ Thorne and Brooke will move on from this short-lived relationship, realizing it was a mistake and an illusion. Brooke will admit that Thorne will never replace Ridge in her heart. Thorne will come to think of his love for Brooke as an "infatuation" that cost him the woman he truly loved. However, this clarity will not happen until after Brooke has actually managed to convince not only herself, but _the writers_ of her unreliable narrative - albeit temporarily. And the interesting thing is that even after Brad 🔔(or the "Invisible Narrator") is convinced, _the other characters aren't,_ instead vi o lently opposing and actively reb e lling against this new narrative. And it's not just one character but virtually _all of them_ (except Thorne and Brooke). I do believe that there was a time during this storyline when Brad _did_ intend for Thorne and Brooke to be a love story. But with so many of the other characters not believing that interpretation, and knowing that this narrative is inconsistent with both the _history_ and the _future_ of the show and its characters, it feels more like Brad🔔is in the process of creating an unreliable invisible narrator here, maybe even in spite of himself. The "folie à deux" will become a "folie à trois", with Brooke, Thorne, and the Invisible Narrator.
LOVE it! And love how you folded the Invisible Narrator into it ("folie à trois"). It's so interesting to me when this happens (and not just on B&B), when the pen gets away from the writer and characters with strong inner lives and defined traits compels him into a different direction than he intended. Novelists talk about this phenomenon quite openly. Though I have to wonder if in this specific case it's not just a battle between the characters and the narrator/writer, but also a battle between Brad and his father. We've been told that Bill Bell came back and advised on the writing for this season (which is believable since so much of the story structure and archetypes have his fingerprints all over them) so that may be the tension we're seeing i.e. Brad's bad vision being forced into a different direction by Bill's story corrections.
@@NewYorkNick0607 yes, that may indeed be the case! I have to admit this season is playing out slightly differently than I remembered it. The way I remembered it, the Invisible Narrator took Thorne and Brooke's side fairly early on, and kept that perspective until mid 2001. But now I see that where we are right now, it seems that the show's narrative is still against them (with Taylor not only giving her _professional_ opinion, but also having it confirmed by _several colleagues,_ who actually cause her to _change her mind_ from the last time we saw her when she supported the relationship - which gives it a lot more weight and credibility than when she only has a professional opinion that happens to support her own personal motivations). We believe Taylor here. So the story, as it is playing out right now, is that Thorne and Brooke are only imagining themselves to be in love (i.e. Bill Bell's vision is in place). And the transition from this to the point where the _entire_ (unreliable) narrative supports them (with even Stephanie giving her reluctant approval) will take a full year. I am really curious about when and how this shift in the show's "sensibility" will happen - I expect a shift in narrative perspective starting to happen around the time of the Venice episodes, which we should be seeing by the end of the week.
Babs4848 well I am a Bridge fan but I definitely not watching the soap nowadays. It has nothing to do with the old. I stopped watching a little after the new Ridge appeared but that has nothing to do with it. All the characters have evolved even Brooke. In one episode and not recently Ridge admitted that he was wrong and kept Brooke hanging on because he just didn't want to let go of her as he was his sole mate. He loved Taylor also but they were not perfectly matched. He even said that he was sorry that he stood in Brooke's way not letting her became the person she was meaning confident and not mixed up.
Aww, there it is again; what a bad psychologist Taylor is! LOL…. Some people take this soap way too seriously. 😂😂🤦♀️
7 месяцев назад+1
This episode's Rick/Amber twists are just weird. Amber just booted Tawny out to go back to Furnace Creek a few episodes, and now she's all, oh, just run to the drugstore for me. Rick is all, "I want to be with you, Kimberly, but I'm staying with Amber". And how long is this soap day going to go on? These people have been wearing the same clothes for 2 weeks of episodes. (Plus seeing this era again makes me wish even more that they hadn't turned Rick evil.)
@@nancytautuaa8996Brooke did it since day 1 of the show. Nobody will care about the post 2002 B&B. And Taylor isn't a homewrecker. Brooke does and did all her best bs pre 2002. Then keeps doing bs after 2002...
Brooke, listen to Taylor. Your kids are still too young regardless of the SORAS. You have to wait until the kids are 18. Then they won't mind if you marry the former brother-in-law Thorne or -grand- pa Eric But I doubt that all the psychiatrists from 1999 would think that the behavior of the Forrester-Logan-Spencer ...family in the following decades is _normal_ , even if the family in the future acts as if it is just totally normal.
@@lastdayonearthmysteryman4849 I know. Just a bit more patience. Thomas and the twins still need to be born before Rick can have sex with his -niece- -on-off-step-sister- Steffy, Bridget also still has to grow up a bit more until -daddy- -brother- Ridge can make out with her, or Thomas can make out with -cousin- Ivy, or with -on-off-step-sister Hope...... Are you my daughter, or my sister, my cousin or my aunt? Nevermind. B&B love transcends all family bonds.
“Then they won’t mind if you marry former brother in law Thorne or Eric” I disagree on that. Doesn’t Matter how old I am my mother marrying my brother is something that is definitely disturbing to say the least. Especially since you started off engaged to my other brother and pregnant by him then when you lost that baby you latch onto to my married father and had me, cheated on my dad with my brother and for a while wasn’t sure which one you was pregnant by, and now you call yourself “in love” with my other brother and expect me to think this is healthy?
@@lil_jon411 Neither of us is a Forrester/Logan/Spencer..... . Some more decades and Taylor's children in 2013 are happy for mom Taylor to hook up with granddad. 2018, Will won't get any say in the matter that his mom got engaged to his half-brother Wyatt ....or when Katie later that year got married to Thorne, the half-brother of Katie's former fiance Ridge (Will's on-off uncle).
these two are acting crazy just like what Taylor said but not only crazy but irresposible too like all they care about is themsleves so selfish and reckless
Has any of them been married while she was with them? Has she ever had to question her kids paternity between family members? Has she ever had a baby by her daughters husband? Oh
Taylor was spot on saying Brooke would hurt Bridget most of all, and oh boy does she ever in the worst possible way.
Brooke always hurted her children so badly
"None of the doctors I talked to think your relationships with the men in this family are normal."
😂😂😂😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
None of the _doctors?_ None of 50 randomly selected people _anywhere_ would think these relationships are normal.
@@annieo6527 Not to nitpick but I think the word "normal" is wrong here. Brooke going through the Forrester men is _objectively_ not normal because almost nobody does that. You don't need a specialist opinion to declare it abnormal. I think what Taylor means is it's _unhealthy_ which is more of a subjective value judgment or medical opinion. It's a small thing but it always bugs me when they use the wrong word like this in dialogue.
@@NewYorkNick0607 you are right of course! Brooke's relationships are not objectively _normal_ in the sense that they are not "middle of the bell cu r ve" material (although they may in fact be in the middle of the _Bell_ cu r ve). And they are _also_ not healthy, which of course was the point Taylor was trying to make.
It’s funny how Taylor got involved with all these men and more that’s Rick which led her daughter to early grave.
Don't need a shrink to tell you that falling in love with father, son and brother is pathological.
right how didnt Taylor see this before?
Taylor did same
@@deesee3622oh She did. When Brooke and Ridge had an affair at Eric's back.
@@hraslandifference is they were never married when she got involved with them, and she never had to question her kids paternity between family members either. Nice deflection off Brooke though
@@hraslannot the same at all.
Maybe Eric should've gotten a restraining order when Brooke was sniffing around HIM.
Brooke rejected him. He can't. Hypocrite 😂
😂😂😂
Eric has always made rules for others and exceptions for himself.
he should just get the restraining order now
She should told him no when he was sniffing around her she knew who she wanted in their family it was Ridge and Eric knew that Brooke was Ridge forever he could call her to his bed Brooke and men in Forrester was sex craze people calling it love that sick telling them Hyprocrite is right Taylor and Stephanie, Bridget should’ve kick them to curb💕
Kimberly gets on my nerves trying to break up a marriage .
lol she knows and everybody knows amber is lying
Taylor was stunningly beautiful back then and was the voice of reason. Also Eric had much more common sense. The writers really ruined the storyline in the new show.
it is unwatchable
*Amber & Tawny's division of labor*
The Amber/Tawny dynamic is one where her mother comes up with the crazy schemes (like using Becky's baby to deceive Rick) and does the outlandish stuff (like threatening Kimberly with a 🔫) so Amber doesn't have to, so Amber can remain somewhat root-able for the viewer. We've seen this dynamic before. In her original run on the show, Sheila often functioned this way for Brooke, doing the truly bad/illegal stuff that Brooke needed doing (like tampering with Bridget's paternity) but that Brooke would never do because she's not actually a villain. This is what makes Amber a similar type to Brooke -- she's a Bad Girl but not a villain. However, Sheila did that stuff in secret and helping Brooke was just a side effect of trying to help herself. Sheila and Brooke's goals were aligned but Sheila wasn't functioning as a maternal figure or caretaker of Brooke's storyline in the same way that Tawny is for Amber. Instead this mother/daughter dynamic more resembles the one Stephanie has/had with Taylor. Especially when Taylor and Ridge were married the first time, Stephanie was often the one pushing Taylor to act, coming up with schemes to neutralize Brooke, and gloating whenever Taylor came out on top. This "division of labor" allowed Taylor to keep her hands clean and remain the Good Girl with Taylor often resisting Stephanie's plans and showing compassion for Brooke.
Similarly here we have Amber the Bad Girl who nevertheless retains viewer sympathy and doesn't tip over into outright villainy because her mother carries that load for her. It's Tawny who suggests that Amber get pregnant to secure her place with Rick (just as Stephanie once suggested to Taylor to "even the score" with Brooke) and it's Amber who resists and shows real regret over lying to Rick and Amber even "saves" Kimberly from her mother. Thus we get an interesting mirror of the Stephanie/Taylor dynamic in Tawny & Amber and this also has the effect of preventing Amber and Brooke from fully assuming the obvious roles in their rivalry. If Amber is a "Bad Girl" version of Taylor, then she's not really the new Brooke and if Tawny is a cartoonishly bad Stephanie, then Brooke can't become the Forrester matriarch either.
This post is just full of good observations! I like your point about how the show splits a character in two so one part can remain untainted by the bad acts of the other part. And it's true, I always thought of Amber as the new Brooke and that they were trying to make Brooke the Stephanie in this scenario (the disapproving mother-in-law) but you're right it's more complicated than that.
Also another way that Tawny = Bad Stephanie is that Stephanie is the only Forrester we know who has a 🔫.
Excellent analysis! And yes, it is clear that by Tawny shouldering the clear "villain" role, Amber stays redeemable in spite of taking part in something that should not be possible to forgive.
We talked about Bill vs Brad Bell in another post, and I can see this being another one of those instances where there are "two visions". I can picture Brad having the idea of recreating the Stephanie/Brooke dynamic with Brooke/Amber (in keeping with the less functional "mimicry characterization" of Brooke that we see from 1995 onwards), and the transformation of that into something more complex by the introduction of Tawny feels more like something Bill Bell would do (since, like you pointed out, it mirrors the relationships between Brooke and Sheila, and Stephanie and Taylor).
@@annieo6527 Yes exactly! And in fact Amber/Tawny/Rick resemble Brad's previous (lamer) attempt with Jessica/Maggie/Dylan: low class outsiders, hick mom, an under-aged relationship. But the storyline is SO much better and has Bill Bell's fingerprints all over it. Also the show is already starting to feel campier which is definitely a Brad touch but as we see later on, when his father isn't around, he can only do _bad_ camp.
@@ajax34 Thanks Ajax! Great catch about Tawny & Stephanie both owning a 🔫
This being 'madly in love with Thorne' phase of Brooke's won't last long. Very soon she'll be right back to calling Ridge her destiny (🤮) and trying to break up his marriage to Taylor. 🤨
What’s even crazier is she’ll gaslight Taylor and blame it on her for ‘encouraging’ her and Thorne instead of just handing Ridge over 💀
Exactly, vintage Brooke at her worst. @@singularitiny
I love this soap so much Iam so happy we can watch it again
Eric! You should get a restraining order on yourself! I do have to say that what Thorne said was right. Eric and Ridge definitely had a part in where Steffany is today!
Taylor found Brooke in the DSM 😂🤣
Taylor found Brooke _all over_ the pages of the DSM!
Seriously though, I think Taylor's is actually the _correct_ interpretation of what is going on with Thorne and Brooke here (I wrote a separate post about it). And the interesting thing is that right now, the narrative seems to be "with" Taylor, while as the storyline progresses, the writing will draw the _viewer_ into the "folly".
😂😂😂
This is why James was the best man for Brooke.
@@sharonstewart4882 Stephanie did support their relationship because Brooke could use a good psychiatrist.
I must say, I was surprised with the Amber-Rick-Kimberley drama. With Rick daydreaming about Kimberley and his recent rage because of the gun incident, I didn't expect the boy to still honor his marriage. Rick surprised me but I liked his commitment to his -not- son and his marriage.
Ah, that frosty, goopy, layers-thick gloss on Kimberley makes me nostalgic for the early 2000s 😂. MAC Lipglass, I’m betting.
Eric the same during belief saga. He is the first hypocritical, even if he does the right thing supporting Stephanie in her heath and emotinal condotions for once .But he will not have great ideas to prevent the marriage and also he will have an awful idea just as in the belief time
.
Yes, Eric's schemes always have unexpected side effects...
*Taylor Chooses Her Archetype (Good Girl) over Her Role (The Wife)*
In episode 3185, I wrote that Taylor advising Brooke to stay with Thorne had a selfish motivation because it would also keep Brooke away from Ridge. However now we see Taylor advising Brooke against her interests. After researching and concluding that their relationship is unhealthy, Taylor chooses to tell Brooke the truth rather than continue supporting an unhealthy relationship just because it might benefit her personally. This is Taylor being true to her Good Girl archetype and it's actually the harder thing to do because it comes with real costs: it destroys her friendship with Brooke and makes her own marriage more vulnerable. When Thorne and Brooke inevitably fall apart as Taylor seems certain they will, that means Brooke will come to terms with the fact that the man she really wants is Ridge (and that Thorne is just a substitute for him) and she will have no guilt about pursuing him because she already views Taylor as someone who betrayed her and ended their detente.
I've written before how The Good Girl and The Wife are Taylor's ideal archetype and role. When I argued that she often uses therapy to drive the plot in her direction, I didn't mean that she manipulated her professional advice to suit her interests but rather that doling out good advice was often in sync with her interests because of her noble archetype and role. However there have been times when the two are in conflict and what we see now is Taylor choosing to be true to her Good Girl archetype over maintaining her position as The Wife. She's giving the correct advice regardless of the threat it poses to her marriage. This is similar to what happened in Season 8 when Taylor came back from Morocco to reclaim Ridge after initially making a sacrifice for him to be happy with Brooke (see my post in episode 2083). In that situation, the archetype and role were in conflict because if Ridge chose Taylor and made her The Wife again, then her sacrifice would be meaningless and thus her Good-ness would not be restored. Instead, Ridge honored Taylor's sacrifice by choosing Brooke and thus Taylor lost her Wife position but regained her Good Girl status. And now here in Season 13 we see Taylor making the same choice to prioritize her archetype over her role.
Brook is too selfish to put the children first
she never did
Seriously Taylor. No one ends a relationship because others think its wrong.
She should at least know that.
Taylor has never been a good phycologist
😂😂🤦♀️🤦♀️
Taylor and Ridge ❤
Tridge❤❤
What do you mean by why?? Just finally accept and respect other people’s opinions! People like who they want! Every time someone likes Tridge or Taylor, you feel the urge to comment they suck…. And you did that yesterday too! It even was the same user! Geez……🤦♀️🫣🥱and nope, I can’t stand Kimberley, she sucks!!
I think the most pathological here is Taylor: first, she convinced Brooke to try to make amends with Stephanie supporting her and Thorne relationship and then, immediately after speakingwith Ridge, she changed her mind and keeps talking about mental desease. And she is a psychiatrist...
The delusional Brooke stans and so called “neutrals” needing to compare Brooke to Taylor again…. No surprise there!🤦♀️😂😂
Thank you so much for this episode
Well I don't think Brooke is to blame for everything. They say its disgusting she went after son and father but didn't Eric persue her knowing she was his sons ex lover and then went after Taylor and slept with her. And what about Taylor sleeping with Eric isnt he the father of her ex husband and not to mention carrying on with Brooke's son. Forgods sake Ridge even had an affair with little Bridget. Is that all excusable and Brooke is the only wrong one. I DONT THINK SO.
But nothing of what you're saying, except Eric ( who married a pregnant Brooke, so I assume the chase went well for him) has happened yet. I'm sure there are plenty of comments like yours undes the episodes where those things actually happened. After 2002. Probably only Brooke fans are still watching them, since there is nothing even near to the old B&B except again, Brooke.
@@babs4848 exactly - post 2002 B&B might as well be a different show altogether. On _this_ show (1999 B&B), none of that has happened, nor is there any indication in the writing that it _could_ happen. These things do not, as yet, exist in the writing.
@@babs4848and to make Brooke look better they need to compare her to Taylor🤦♀️😂
Taylor hasn't slept with Eric yet on these episodes. Of course they had already had a short thing, and Taylor indeed was FULLY willing to sleep with him, as she entered his bedroom and didn't because she found Stephanie in his bed and decided to sacrifice/was scared of Stephanie and her always excessive reactions.
And she has already been in a kind of a relationship with Thorne already.
She is ahead of Brooke already in these episodes minus the s ex (because Taylor is a virgin😂😂) because apparently that's the thing. Brooke has s ex.
In 1999 we already had had Eric and Thorne trying to get Taylor _former daughter-in-law/sister-in-law_ into the bed.
Both only have succeeded in getting dates and swapping saliva with Taylor but failed to get to the next stage. We have to thank Stephanie that she beat Taylor in 1996 and was already in Eric's bed when Taylor gave Eric a more serious consideration.
And yes, Taylor didn't do the chasing, but she didn't have to entertain the Forrester men either and to go along with dating, joining Thorne on a trip to Hawai, letting the family think that Thorne was the father of her unborn child in 1997.... .
In today's episode they all only focus on Thorne's tendency to go after Ridge's ex-lovers, but Eric's gets ignored. 🙈
But yes, in 2024 they all could get back to that talk and the fact that all Forresters like to go after Ridge's ex-lovers or how the women always end up with his family members, Taylor and Brooke even both have been married to his half-brother Nick (no Forrester member). But the writing during these years already had everyone act as if it was totally normal. Eric's grandkids Steffy and Thomas didn't have any issue with granddad Eric dating their mom, they just dropped the _granddad_ part.
*Folie à deux*
Taylor's "folie à deux" comment is interesting, because the way it is being portrayed now, it's still an open question whether her professional opinion is valid or whether it's an unfair judgement on the "star-crossed lovers" Thorne and Brooke. The writers seem to be showing both sides - Eric, Ridge and Taylor tell their side of the narrative to the viewer, while Brooke and Thorne tell theirs (which is that their relationship is a love story, and Brooke is the true "romantic heroine" that she always pictured herself to be).
But not too far into the future, Taylor will be unambiguously proven _right._ Thorne and Brooke will move on from this short-lived relationship, realizing it was a mistake and an illusion. Brooke will admit that Thorne will never replace Ridge in her heart. Thorne will come to think of his love for Brooke as an "infatuation" that cost him the woman he truly loved.
However, this clarity will not happen until after Brooke has actually managed to convince not only herself, but _the writers_ of her unreliable narrative - albeit temporarily. And the interesting thing is that even after Brad 🔔(or the "Invisible Narrator") is convinced, _the other characters aren't,_ instead vi o lently opposing and actively reb e lling against this new narrative. And it's not just one character but virtually _all of them_ (except Thorne and Brooke).
I do believe that there was a time during this storyline when Brad _did_ intend for Thorne and Brooke to be a love story. But with so many of the other characters not believing that interpretation, and knowing that this narrative is inconsistent with both the _history_ and the _future_ of the show and its characters, it feels more like Brad🔔is in the process of creating an unreliable invisible narrator here, maybe even in spite of himself. The "folie à deux" will become a "folie à trois", with Brooke, Thorne, and the Invisible Narrator.
LOVE it! And love how you folded the Invisible Narrator into it ("folie à trois"). It's so interesting to me when this happens (and not just on B&B), when the pen gets away from the writer and characters with strong inner lives and defined traits compels him into a different direction than he intended. Novelists talk about this phenomenon quite openly. Though I have to wonder if in this specific case it's not just a battle between the characters and the narrator/writer, but also a battle between Brad and his father. We've been told that Bill Bell came back and advised on the writing for this season (which is believable since so much of the story structure and archetypes have his fingerprints all over them) so that may be the tension we're seeing i.e. Brad's bad vision being forced into a different direction by Bill's story corrections.
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@@NewYorkNick0607 yes, that may indeed be the case! I have to admit this season is playing out slightly differently than I remembered it. The way I remembered it, the Invisible Narrator took Thorne and Brooke's side fairly early on, and kept that perspective until mid 2001. But now I see that where we are right now, it seems that the show's narrative is still against them (with Taylor not only giving her _professional_ opinion, but also having it confirmed by _several colleagues,_ who actually cause her to _change her mind_ from the last time we saw her when she supported the relationship - which gives it a lot more weight and credibility than when she only has a professional opinion that happens to support her own personal motivations). We believe Taylor here.
So the story, as it is playing out right now, is that Thorne and Brooke are only imagining themselves to be in love (i.e. Bill Bell's vision is in place). And the transition from this to the point where the _entire_ (unreliable) narrative supports them (with even Stephanie giving her reluctant approval) will take a full year. I am really curious about when and how this shift in the show's "sensibility" will happen - I expect a shift in narrative perspective starting to happen around the time of the Venice episodes, which we should be seeing by the end of the week.
Ridge's hair looks crazy
Babs4848 well I am a Bridge fan but I definitely not watching the soap nowadays. It has nothing to do with the old. I stopped watching a little after the new Ridge appeared but that has nothing to do with it. All the characters have evolved even Brooke. In one episode and not recently Ridge admitted that he was wrong and kept Brooke hanging on because he just didn't want to let go of her as he was his sole mate. He loved Taylor also but they were not perfectly matched. He even said that he was sorry that he stood in Brooke's way not letting her became the person she was meaning confident and not mixed up.
Brooke still thinks she is the victim here.
Aww, there it is again; what a bad psychologist Taylor is! LOL…. Some people take this soap way too seriously. 😂😂🤦♀️
This episode's Rick/Amber twists are just weird. Amber just booted Tawny out to go back to Furnace Creek a few episodes, and now she's all, oh, just run to the drugstore for me. Rick is all, "I want to be with you, Kimberly, but I'm staying with Amber". And how long is this soap day going to go on? These people have been wearing the same clothes for 2 weeks of episodes. (Plus seeing this era again makes me wish even more that they hadn't turned Rick evil.)
Taylor goes on to be romantically involved with all the Forrester men and Ridges half brother Nick too.
She should get a psychiatric diagnosis too 😂
she fell for the same thing lol - being around these forresters really screwed her up; should have left when she had the chance
Well Brooke did it first hhhhh
@@nancytautuaa8996Brooke did it since day 1 of the show. Nobody will care about the post 2002 B&B. And Taylor isn't a homewrecker. Brooke does and did all her best bs pre 2002. Then keeps doing bs after 2002...
I still wonder why Taylor ever got involved with father Logan or Rick, but maybe it was just for the fact that here Brooke didn't do them first.
@@nancytautuaa8996 What does that matter 😂
Brooke, listen to Taylor. Your kids are still too young regardless of the SORAS. You have to wait until the kids are 18. Then they won't mind if you marry the former brother-in-law Thorne or -grand- pa Eric
But I doubt that all the psychiatrists from 1999 would think that the behavior of the Forrester-Logan-Spencer ...family in the following decades is _normal_ , even if the family in the future acts as if it is just totally normal.
@@lastdayonearthmysteryman4849 I know. Just a bit more patience.
Thomas and the twins still need to be born before Rick can have sex with his -niece- -on-off-step-sister- Steffy, Bridget also still has to grow up a bit more until -daddy- -brother- Ridge can make out with her, or Thomas can make out with -cousin- Ivy, or with -on-off-step-sister Hope......
Are you my daughter, or my sister, my cousin or my aunt? Nevermind. B&B love transcends all family bonds.
“Then they won’t mind if you marry former brother in law Thorne or Eric” I disagree on that. Doesn’t Matter how old I am my mother marrying my brother is something that is definitely disturbing to say the least. Especially since you started off engaged to my other brother and pregnant by him then when you lost that baby you latch onto to my married father and had me, cheated on my dad with my brother and for a while wasn’t sure which one you was pregnant by, and now you call yourself “in love” with my other brother and expect me to think this is healthy?
@@lil_jon411 Neither of us is a Forrester/Logan/Spencer..... .
Some more decades and Taylor's children in 2013 are happy for mom Taylor to hook up with granddad.
2018, Will won't get any say in the matter that his mom got engaged to his half-brother Wyatt
....or when Katie later that year got married to Thorne, the half-brother of Katie's former fiance Ridge (Will's on-off uncle).
Hi ppl!
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I feel Iam in 1998
Yeah, this isn't folie a deaux... its folie a horniness... 😭🤣
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I just realized I haven't seen Bridget all season... Where is she? 😂
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Where did THIS Eric go? 😯
"The madness of two" is what Taylor is talking about with Thorne and Brooke. I don't think they've gone mad but just very horny... 😂
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these two are acting crazy just like what Taylor said but not only crazy but irresposible too like all they care about is themsleves so selfish and reckless
Why is Connor leaving the show
Kimberly is so dramatic!
I like Ricky
Taylor you will do/have done the same the father the son snd the bro actually 2 bros
But she doesn't now.
Has any of them been married while she was with them? Has she ever had to question her kids paternity between family members? Has she ever had a baby by her daughters husband? Oh