Nilou vs Yoimiya and the “Everybody Loves Me” Trope
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Bada! Thank you all so much for the support recently, I’ve been super motivated and got this together as my fastest written video as of making. Like and subscribe, comment and let’s discuss.
Video essay playlist: • Video Essays #genshin #genshinimpact 
Игры
I have a discord now!! Join so we can discuss the story in detail!
Link: discord.gg/w8vaTwVp
There is one thing that they also both share: their signature weapons do not match their character design at all. Hoyoverse. Please give matching signature weapons 😭😭🙏
Real bro 😭😭😭 Nilou is so pretty and her sig looks like hot shit(literally).
@@Edahs_exists what’s even worse is they made her signature weapon so good 😭😭
personally i feel like nilous weapon suits her really well, but yoimiyas weapon doesnt at all suit her and shouldve had a more firework looking design
@@YinPatternsi agree, she has a lot of gold on her, but is mostly blue so the fully gold weapon goes nicely as a contrast (?) to the blue.
@@kaelenemslie yeah exactly! the colors just somehow go well together, i feel like it would be too much if it was also blue
I used to be a nilou hater but my eyes have been open to the fact that sometimes people are nice and get along with everyone and that’s ok
same i hated her during release but it's kinda nice to have a simple character with a very casual story quest
@@mickysaifThe problem is that her story quest isn't even centred around Nilou but an NPC that never appears again
But also we shouldn’t forget that it’s fiction, not real life. Characters are presented in the context, of a story where they are given a certain role. When a character does not fit this role, lacks motivation, and goals, and most players are more interested only (!) in design, it rather shows weak writing skills.
I don’t care about Nilou, but I think it’s clear that her character writing is lower than average for Genshin. even though Genshin’s bar is kinda low. Also, It’s absolutely ok to love Nilou, there is just my opinion.
Problem with Nilou is they haven't show enough of her
She has her big moments during the archon quest but sadly that all we got
On the up side I guess it does show how a famous celebrity can be loved just by their work and charming voice alone? So with that reason, it does "make sense" why she is loved for now
I really hope they make her second story about her more because I do really like her character after main quest and event
Fr. After reading her character stories, I have a lot more interest in her, I wish they went deeper into that aspect of her character instead of focusing on the story of some random npcs. She’s interesting, but like you said, they never showed it off
Damn, I just remember another thing…
Nilou desgin doesn’t have her own identity in it…
The outfit she wear is for that one dance, acting like th god of flower
It wasn’t her at all, she just been cosplaying someone else
What make it worse is her next skin is just her cosplaying another god… again…
Man, it’s sucked to be a Nilou fan…
I do wish they showed more of her. I love Nilou's character, but every time we see her it is all about just dancing. I'm unusual in that I liked her story quest, but still..I get that dancing is her thing, but we don't see any other personal side of her except being nice.
tbh i only thing i remember is that she danced to distract guards
Nilou is nothing compared to the two much worse "Everyone loves me" characters, Paimon and Ayaka
I actually like ayaka. She’s sophisticated due to her status. I can see why that makes her boring to most but as a political figure, all she really needs to be is hard working, polite and elegant, which I think works for ayaka
out of everyone in the game, paimon and ayaka??? 😂😂
@@rodrign007 , thingy is that we have Ganyu and the game doesn't praise her every time she breaths and paints her as the bestest thing since Canned Bread for doing nothing.
@@itzcrystalzz , name a character that is promoted as the bestest thing since Sliced Bread just by existing. At least other characters have done something to deserve some love.
@@snakecake-mw7vw what are you talking about lol? I hate ganyu as a character. Hoyo wants us to garner sympathy for her because she’s always working hard but for absolutely no reason. “poor me I have no friends so I devote myself to liyue and then complain about how all I do is work and how tired I am all the time” ganyu isn’t funny or cute cause she’s shy and hard working she’s just unlikeable
i dont know if someone else mentioned this but, most of the cast of sumeru have a distinct personality: kaveh, cyno, alhaitham, faruzan, just to say a few. and nilous is quite similar to other characters: ganyu, noelle, and yoimiya as mentioned here. and seeing how nilou is the most recent out of all these, players may also feel that she's redundant.
i like nilou and ganyu, but not so much noelle and yoimiya. i think it has a lot to do with lore. nilou has references with the goddess of flowers, and ganyu is a half adeptus who feels torn between humanity and divinity, that has a lot of potential for exploration of character. noelle is nice, i think theres more to explore with her than yoimiya though.
Not only redundant, but shallow
I'd also like to add that she's a 5 star character so the bar for quality in lore and personality is higher. Especially when you look ar how fleshed out and interesting Kaveh, Faruzan, Collei and Layla are. Even Dori makes for a more interesting character.
This is a good point, the sumeru cast is pretty universally loved from what I’ve seen and even if they’re not they have the most dynamic and interesting personalities in my opinion with no two characters being all that similar. Nilou being the most boring one of the bunch js puts her in a worse spot.
Ganyu, Ayaka, and Nilou just seems like one character to me. Sometimes I forget they're different characters
I am one of the people who don't considers Nilou passive, tbh. She took a stance to oppose the Academia in a debate despite having no academic background and being a dancer, which was quite brave of her, and I don't agree that others did the work for her. She went around compiling pertinent arguments, and debated a lot before the NPC stepped in. She even called out the opponent in the way he was using the argument "you don't have the qualifications to judge us" by reminding him that he, as a non-dancer, was doing the exact same things towards art .
That argument was only ignored because she got a bit heated, but even that I actually appreciate because it shows her passion and also shows the very realistic thing that minorities and oppressed groups often tend to face: being dismissed as soon as they show some emotion over a subject that affects them directly, when their opponents have the privilege of not being affected by the issue being debated and can therefore remain calm all the time.
I agree that the NPC interfering took away from the scene and was a bad writing call. But I also thing most players hyperfocus on that, let that become the sole thing engraved in their minds and forget everything Nilou did in the quest. Also, Nilou helping the NPC is not that different from Yoimiya helping NPCs, and i think it was the way the writers chose to portray why people like her. So, I don't think it's fair in the slightest to say that people like yoimiya because she helped them when the quest shows Nilou helping and that's the very thing that the players end up dismissing. Sometimes feel like the fandom played different Nilou quests xD
Nilou also had the maturity to, in the end, seeing the NPC daughter and father taking some steps to reconcile, not approach and instead give them time - because she knows that kind of healing takes time, and it showed some maturity on her part when many ther people would probably start celebrating and being annoying.
You can include me as well
Since im one of the only guys that doesn't consider Nilou as "no personality" kind of statement
@Anilyan13 i see Nilou as a gentle, innocent, kind, courageous and last but not least, very independent person, she is never hesistant to speak or act up in the time of the situation to whst she thinks is correct
If you didnt kill a sea serpent, you dont deserve to be a 5* and have no personality, didnt u know? (sarcastic)
@ArtezanOnline I don't think you need to mention that you're being sarcastic
@@sehrish1837 you'd be surprised...
Well said. I think Hoyo picked up on Nilou needing a more active role, and in the Summer Time Quest that began about 1.5 weeks after your video, Nilou is way more active.
not every character needs to be in the spotlight, that just clutters the whole narrative, side characters are important too and “why isn’tshe a main character” isn’t an argument
that aside, I doubt they’re talking mostly about story relevance here, rather how the fandom perceives the characters
it’s really just the bully types showing their hate of meek “good girls” because they’e easy targets while they can’t hate on the universally liked “good girls”(because the whole group would hate them instead)
Nilou’s SQ might be whatever, but I’d say her role throughout the Archon Quests was pretty great. She was quite active in putting on the Sabzeruz Festival and helping with the plan in Act V. Also, everyone likes her in game because she’s an amazing dancer and a super sweet person (and is pretty). Seems pretty believable to me idk. Also Yoimiya is amazing 10/10 no complaints except for her kit
YOO I always think something is not quite right with the way nilou is introduced too.. such a shame that her role in the archon quest were only the "samsara" cycle host and... basically acts as a diversion for the guards...😅 i was like... dang, compared to other casts it seems like she does struggle to fit in the archon quest
I like Nilou specifically because she is weak, but she's also brave enough to take a stand for what's right, even when she doesn't have the strength to see it through by herself. She was the one in the archon quest who triggers the opportunity for everyone else to be heroes - even Alhaitham admitted he didn't know if somebody else had found his little trap, but she still took that chance. In her own story, her triumph isn't defeating the Academia, but in unifying the theater and the audience against the elitists who want to shut them down. The girl who steps up against her father does so specifically because Nilou encouraged her to stay as part of the troupe. Nilou refused to let that girl ostracize herself from her new friends just to save the theater. This is important, since the obvious solution to their problem was to sacrifice their newest member, who starts that story insecure and feels like she doesn't belong, for the benefit of the theater once her father starts causing them problems. That is precisely what Nilou refuses to do, and she is rewarded when the insecure new recruit is the one to make the final point with confidence.
I'm not saying you're wrong about who is more "inherently likeable", but Nilou is a unifier who gives other people the opportunity and encouragement to do what they need to do to be the best version of themselves. Even in the end, the old man who wanted to shut down the theater ultimately comes to check out what it's about.
I agree that Yoimiya is strong and very likeable, but there's never much doubt in Yoimiya's ability to carry the day. Nilou isn't strong, but she still refuses to give up on what's right even under threat, and that requires more courage.
These comparisons, writing choices and either met or missed potentials, and usefulness in our own character development as a person or through fictional exploration is very insightful and well presented, great work
I'm not everybody but I saw the thumbnail and had to click and say that I **DO** love both of them
@@WordsOfTheTeacher based
I agree with pretty much everything said here, so I'll just drop some advice: try researching into the balancing of sounds and volume. The clip from the quest at 3:07 is much louder than the rest of the clip, and it comes off as sudden and unpleasant.
I think I see what you're on about but for me it was completely the opposite.
Yoimiya is a very outgoing, extroverted, open to everything and everyone and always ready to help. She is someone that can, if not liked, at least be appreciated by everyone somehow, as you said.
Nilou, while following the same trope, is a completely different person. She's nice and helpful and cute but she's NOT Yoimiya. Yoimiya is on a totally different level of extroversion while Nilou is more of a quiet person. You don't have to be outgoing and constantly helpful to everyone to be likeable. Nilou is known for dancing, so she isn't ignored because she's quiet, and she's also soft-spoken and nice. Especially for a famous person, being quiet might aswell just make them more likeable to the people. She just does her thing, is famous for it and treats her enviroment well, it doesn't take much more than that, really. So much for in-game logic.
As for the player, I liked Yoimiya when she was in the archon quest, the characterisation was solid and she came across as her own person with her own personality. The reason why I have sort of developed a dislike for her is because of the very same archon quest, which is (as you have elaborated on in another video), not that good. Firstly I was forced to play her story quest, which I otherwise would've only done if I was in the proper mood, and secondly her story quest was set in the most unfortunate place in the story. It just made me want to get it over with as quick as possible and continue the actual story. Adding to that, I feel like her story quest was trying really hard to rub it in that she was all perfect, which was imo already apparrent enough in the archon quest, thanks to her interactions with the traveller and others. I am also quite introverted and tend to find loud, outgoing people with screechy voices exhausting, so that might be a reason.
Nilou on the other hand spends most of the archon quest being There. She doesn't do much but that's not who she is. She is happy to help and kind to those around her, but she's not a rebel or a fighter or anything. She joins in on the conspiracy for the sake of her God and her own passion for dancing. Her personality is represented well enough through the part she plays in the quest. Of course she could be more active and have more presence and all, but then that wouldn't be Nilou, really.
I must say I really enjoyed your analysis though, I'm glad that you have been motivated in the past weeks and I hope you get the recognition you deserve!
in this comment I mostly meant to elaborate on my very own view, not to talk over you or prove you wrong
u have sm prejudice towards yoimiya. they NEVER pretended that yoimiya was perfect. nor u should be hating her bcs u were forced to do her quest. by that logic u should dislike ayaka too. imo, the quest basically gave us more info abt the stuff going on in Inazuma. a look into the sufferings of inazumans apart from what we see in the AQ.
???? I'm an introvert and I find your take super prejudiced
I understand that you hate extroverted ppl and want them to burn in hell because they have attacked you in some way
I'm here to say that you being an introvert is not an excuse to think that every extrovert is out there to bully you and make your life worse
I personally don't remember being forced to do Yoimiya's quest, but I like Yoimiya because I KNOW SHE IS AUTHENTIC.
EXTROVERT DOES NOT EQUAL FAKE
Okay, you hate Yoimiya's voice? okay, fine, BUT HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HATE HER AS A PERSON?
Can you maybe throw your edgy "I'm such a special introvert who has been oppressed by the extrovert" attitude in the trash? such a toxic mindset
And mind you, I work with extrovert co-workers that I HATE
Does that mean every extrovert in existence is horrid? NO. ARE YOU SERIOUS?
And let's get this straight, I like Nilou too.
In fact, I loved her story quest too (I come from an immigrant family so that SQ was literally me bruh)
And good luck trying to hide behind the excuse of "I never explicitly said any of those things" because I don't buy that.
People aren't stupid. It's called implications. Maybe you should take a page from extroverts and learn that so you CAN APPRECIATE EXTROVERTS MORE
Oh, and did I not say it? I'M AN INTROVERT.
I love both Yoimiya anfmd Nilou, but look at it like this, extrovert vs introvert. Of course Yoimiya is more active, and in everyone's business, thats how she lives. Nilou is the mousy girl that is really interested in one hobby and would like to share it
Strongly agree
I'll add a different perspective. Let me preface this by saying I'm not disagreeing with the points you raise and I have nothing against either character. What I think elevates Yoimiya above quite a few others in the cast has nothing to do with her writing -- it's that her personality is fundamentally more attractive.
Yoimiya can be best described as "vivacious." She's extremely energetic, always up for an adventure (heck, she ends up in Sumeru), she's constantly positive... these qualities are inspiring and infectious. People like this IRL, even those with little substance, are highly charismatic and typically popular. I credit her VA's delivery (in EN; not sure about CN/KR/JP) for helping set her apart in this way. I doubt many people fond of Yoimiya are going to attribute it to any part of the plot to be honest, although better character development and a more interesting narrative would always help.
Nilou on the other hand seems to me to be the weird, quiet, nice theater kid that is off doing her own thing. How she presents herself -is- passive and muted. Is she pleasant to be around? Sure. Is she exciting? Not at all. There really isn't anything helping her other than being nice and well-intentioned. Her tepid personality doesn't save her from otherwise lackluster writing.
They both have a lot of similar drawbacks. There's limited character development, they both are mostly inconsequential to the story, they're both similarly limited in dimensionality. They're both underdeveloped. You can lift characters up with good backstory (Shenhe, Eula come to mind), consequential roles in the plot, or greater depth and complexity. Hoyo doesn't always take the time or care to do this properly, so we're sometimes left with aesthetics and personality to rate characters' appeal.
Nilou vs Yoimiya is basically introvert vs extrovert energy.
neutral/dont-care about the character because of the writing is reasonable, but the active hate of Nilou still needs to be explained, which is clearly personal and is about the personality type of the character rather than the overall package(story-relevance/writing-quality/personality etc.)
and I’m pretty sure it’s just the jealous/petty/bully types who hates others that are likable, specially if they deem them meek and easy target (which Yoimiya isn’t)
Idk about nilou but yoimiya altruistic personality is what makes her shine more than other. Iirc nilou and other kindness is there when the problem that involving themselves present that also entangled with other problem. But yoimiya always insert herself to help in a problem that doesn't even concern her at all
This is what I've been thinking too. Yoimiya thrives in high energy environments, she's perfect to take on an adventure. She'll go out of her way to help anyone in need. She's an extrovert. She'd make a great travel companion. She's the kind of person you'd want by your side in a tough situation. She'll take on any challenge head on. Yoimiya is a perfect fit for Genshin because of that.
Nilou, on the other hand, is content just staying at the theater, practicing and performing. She's not the kind of person to seek out adventure. The theater is the highest energy thing in her life. She'd otherwise be relaxing at home reading a book or taking a stroll by the river. She's an introvert. Introverted characters tend to not be very popular in Genshin. (With a few exceptions of course). Nilou is not the idea travel companion. But she's someone you want to protect. Keep away from the dangers of the world.
@@f.b.lagent1113ppl are just toxic in general
Ppl can't live in a world where a certain person is liked by everyone
Ppl want to live in a world where other ppl are just as SELFISH, GREEDY, AND as MEAN AS THEM.
That's why these ppl can't stand Nilou.
Or yoimiya (as some of the comments will tell you)
These are the types of ppl that hate Sykunno
Don't know if there's anyone who understands the enneagram and mbti, but
Yoimiya is definitely ENFP enneagram 7, while Nilou is ESFJ enneagram 9. Knowing this I felt a bit bad, because there are just different reasons for people to like them! Nilou can provide the sense of comfort to enyone, to calm them, to see the conflict from the both sides as xxFJ types and Nines do, while Yoimiya is completely opposite. She can't sit still, she brings smile not by creating peace, but by disturbing boringness. They both are really good people, they both are loveable. But HoYo definitely showed them differently. Just because moments of peace would seem boring for a player 😢
nilou being “forced down our throat” was really obvious during the new summer event
Unrelated but I feel like Bennett would've been a better "hero" instead of Wanderer, I mean ik the event is abt Wanderers backstory but he doesnt need to play the "hero" role
How? Every summer events focused on the most random ass characters.
True
@@tothebeyond6318Are you skipping all the lore, development, past, present, future, dialogues, relationships and similarities between Wanderer and Durin?
@@MRQUARTZ211 dont you have reading comprehension? ☠️
Nilou also has no playable character friends, so we don't see any unique aspect of her. In her demo she mentioned dancing in the desert, so they could have had Candace and Deyha checking up on her. Those two were so sweet with the traveler, so them doting on her would have been precious. You'd think she'd become more bold after the archon quest and invite everyone around her to dance. Being a sweet girl, she'd probably suggest everyone close their eyes so no one was embarrassed. She could have had a cute parallel to Eula and Amber too and asked Collei to dance. If she liked to read, she could talk to Faruzan about books or talk to Layla about the stars and make dances in inspiration of constellations. Over all, being a performer, you'd think she'd have an interest in clothing and makeup like Navia, but not even that is expressed with her.
Very well made, I enjoyed this analyzation :)
hoyoverse SHOWS us everyone loves yoimiya. but they rely on directly TELLING us everyone loves nilou, and it feels like lazy writing
I really like and play them both! Howerever, you're really on point.
Nilou is my comfort character, she's very kind and encouraging in her voice lines
I love both..But Yoimiya is my favorite 5star I don’t have her cause I couldn’t get her on her last rerun but she is still mah favorite 5star..Then Nilou she is my favorite hydro character her design, I love the design of her outfits, I got her this rerun 4.8..Her dancing aspect is just great..Now her personality can be a bit dry but I love how happy she is… But Yoimiya was done really well, and they Nilou was done kinda dry..But I still LOVE both 😢
Nah nilou is superior, all she did was valiant shit while she is not a figther she took a stance against the scholars, confront them and debate against them without being an scholar herself, she is faaar smarter than the tabi idiot realizing she is in a dream easily without having to repeat samsara over and over when duty calls, she accepts without hesitation even when of all the group if something goes wrong she is the one that would do absolutely nothing to scape putting her and her family at risk IDK Nilou even if she is a quiet beauty is very bad ass.
When I used to be on the twitter this seemed to be the general consensus between the fans. For me on the other hand, it was the other way around. Gameplay wise, I love Yoimiya . Character wise, it was hit or miss. Her quest had to have been the most boring for me and it didn’t keep it drawn in. While I definitely understand why, it just wasn’t like that for me.
-
Nilou was the opposite for me. I loved her role in the archon quest and her character quest as well. Nilou was already liked due to her status as a celebrity and how great of a dancer she is. She’s an entertainer, she knows how to bring in an audience. Not saying that makes her better, but I believe there is a justification for it. Nilou taking small steps to being more of an active character was honestly more progress than what she was doing before traveler. It was just another one of those quests.
YES!!! THANK YOU
I would have never thought of Nilou being compared to Yoimiya ! I've always thought she was more similar to Ayaka who also seems to have that same trope, but I definitely see the connexion here
I have to say, I disagree with almost everything you say about Nilou, but it's nice to see another video essay in such a short time-frame as well. The only thing I'll say (I really don't want to turn into a hate train), and what I hope will be some constructive criticism, is that I think when you say "[Nilou] is treated as an active protagonist even though her actions show the opposite", there is perhaps a tinge of insincerity here. You've talked a lot about how she is a passive protagonist (and she certainly is), but not a lot at all about how she is supposedly treated as 'active' in such a way that her character is undermined. I simply can't see what you mean when you talk about this contradiction. To me, Nilou is a character through which other characters are able to find strength, and I think that is very well communicated in both her story quest AND the Samsara Cycle. We see many people who are motivated through her presence and companionship alone.
All of that aside, and my other disagreements, it's good to see another video from you. We don't have to agree, and I think the concept behind the video is definitely in the right direction. Active vs passive is a solid topic to discuss, but that is perhaps sometimes at the detriment of those characters that do effectively break the rules.
Look forward to your next video anyways.👌
Exactly! Tbh I don't think this is forced to us, and I also don't think she had to be like yoimiya to be a good and likeable character, she's more someone who inspires people rather than an active protagonist like yoimiya, and I honestly love that
Yeah, that critique makes sense lol, thanks for pointing it out. If it helps, I was mainly thinking that comparing it to Yoimiya’s being active would help, but to clarify, Nilou is being treated by the story like she’s doing everything and that she’s amazing for doing all that, when it’s really the traveler and Inayah(the npc) who are doing all the work. Whereas for Yoimiya, she’s doing everything and earning the credit, as she should. Hopefully that clarifies it!
@@Edahs_exists I think that where the game fails is that they should or let Nilou shine in the discussion, or treat her as someone who inspires
Thanks for pointing it out. Also Nilou is an introvert, it makes sense she is more "passive" but she summons strength to debate the akademiya going out of her comfort zone, for others.
The fact an npc win the debate is because said npc or PERSON got inspired by Nilou's actions and eventually was prompted to act. There was an akademiya guy that resonated with art and said that he finally understands what it is about. There's nothing wrong with having a more likable character that's more passive, that does her job of dancing which spreads joy, art and connects people, and this dedication to an ideal is also why she kept believing in Kusanali.
Nilou felt more realistic as a character than Yoimiya. I've met ten time more "Nilous" in real life than "Yoimiyas". Yes, I'm talking about personality. Nilous are pretty common.
Also people in genshin like Nilou for her dance, appearance and character. It's not just "for nothing", those are valuable traits and take a lot of effort same as firework crafting. Which is also...realistic. And more realistic than Yoimiya being popular. How?
Easy. Tell me what's more common in media - popular dancers or firework makers? You can name thousand popular irl dancers, idols and etc. Meanwhile 99% of people don't even know a single popular firework crafter. That's how big the difference is.
I see so many people talking about liking Yoimiya because she’s bubbly, energetic, fun, etc and feel like I agree with what a bunch of other people kinda said- people like Yoimiya because she’s a charismatic extrovert, while Nilou has more introverted qualities
3:08 My ears f cking broke
Yoimiya is much like Itto they make sure you see them. Nilou is the opposite similar to much of the Sumeru cast is very introverted.
This lack of extraversion is difficult to write without the character being seen as passive uninterested or down right edgy. Hoyo while also pandering to sell these characters have made a already difficult task so much worse for themselves.
It's clear because Furina personality wise is bang in the middle of these 2 and she is still loved even for personality. Hu Tao is a weird girl yet her being so extroverted makes her a lot fun. In conclusion Nilou isn't a bad character she just isn't the most extroverted person. If we go to the current summer event she actually feels more alive taking decisions into her own hands and trying to move things herself, similar to Ayaka becoming slightly more extroverted gave them a wave of people saying their characterisation was better.
Great summary! I actually have been thinking about Nilou's character a bit and I think I could add my two words to why Nilou feels off as a character:
Pretty much every Genshin character has sort of a flaw or deep running conflict/drama that serves as their establishing moment. Sticking to Sumeru's roster, every character has at least one such element - Colei struggles against her illness and lack of education, Tighnari has his hurdles as the Forest Ranger, Kaveh is caught in a spiral of guilt and idealism*, Candace is working hard for her village to struggle against the harsh desert world** and so on. Layla is sort of an outlier, as she doesn't have any major conflict, but her drive to study astrology and anxiety about falling behind is very relatable to many people, as we all had our own adventures in the education system.
Compared to that, Nilou comes from a loving family, is cheerful, optimistic and has pretty much no character flaws. No unresolved conflict in her backstory, or with any other character (like Alhaitham and Kaveh's bickering carrying half their character development). No character trait other than being a good girl (take Cyno's puns and wordplay as a contrast example - while definitely a harmless quirk, it adds a ton to his personality).
a
Even within the Archon quest (which IMO does a good job making all the main cast involved) her role is the least pronounced (if crucial) - her memory breaks the Samsara (but she has very little agency in anything leading up to this point). Her dance at the Sabzerus festival is a strong emotional payoff - but the focus is on Dunyazard's apparition and her dream to see Nilou dancing. Which, IMO, turns Nilou into more of a plot device rather than a character. And finally in the climax, while Nilou's dance is what enables the rest of the gang to commence their plan, it once again fails to give her any agency or development - she just dances. It wouldn't take an extensive re-write to add a scene where, for example, Azar attempts to apprehend Nilou at first, giving her a chance to fight back or take initiative in some other way, and only resorts to banning art (and thus allowing Alhaitham's gamblwde to work) once this fails.
Compared to that, as you said - Yoimiya takes agency in her quest, and is very active towards both the Traveller and the story. Her living with a partially disabled grandpa adds to her character building, as it shows her being caring and compassionate in a situation some other people would have no patience. I think you nailed all the reasons Yoimiya is liked, so I don't have much to add here.
Though honestly, if I were to point at a character that is forced down our throats by MHY, it'd be Ayaka. Her story quest was also pretty mediocre (at best), and unlike Yoimiya's, it adds almost nothing to Inazuma's worldbuilding, while also being an obligatory play to progress the story. What baffles me is that, compared to Nilou, she does have pretty solid backstory to her, but completely fails to build on it - but that's an issue pretty much every Inazuma character struggles with (still a better case than genius strategist Kokomi, as much as I love my fish priestess).
And a last addition - I see your vid is ~month old, which means it couldn't include the current summer event, but IMO it kinda improves Nilou, at least in terms of characterization. She still doesn't take much initiative, but at least we're shown how she reacts to that event's weird setup and how she cares of the critters put under her care. Not much - but it's something.
* -> Sidenote on Kaveh - it's criminal that majority of his development was timegated by the Interdarshan Championship event...
** -> Honestly, it pains me so much to see Candace so underused in the story *and* in subsequent content... We didn't even get a hangout event for her...
I'm a Nilou stan ever since I realised her character and role in the archon quest to dance as a rally against the Akademiya was a parallel to real life Persian women using public dance as a means of an avocation of their rights. Yoimiya is fine, but she's still such an NPC-personality character with nothing interesting or unique about her at all. She's just there if you like overly sunny characters, which is fine, but Nilou at least STANDS for something. So I feel the opposite for this video: Nilou does this trope well because her medium actually helped people and heavily contrasts Sumeru's culture to be creative and open minded, while Yoimiya is friendly....because she's friendly.
I just remember not being able to understand whose dream it was in the archon quest because Nilou didn't really leave an impression on me and I genuinely didn't even think it could be her dream.
two of my favorite characters
Itto is so badass that his signature becomes the second claymore stat stick, and isn't it also related to his lore?
I wish i knew more about Nilou's story, like i know Yoimiya's meaningful connections and motives and such, (adding likeability)
But Nilou...
I only know that she was useful and likes dancing.
I dont even know her motives or traits of her personality.
Nilou is pretty but shes a waste of a product. Just another waifu #76 or smth
I think when it comes to the positive "waifu", Navia and amber actually rank higher.
The way no one in these comments is in agreement 💀 why are we pitting two kindhearted, lovable queens against each other
Of course people aren't going to be in agreement, not everybody is going to feel the exact same way about something when it's subjective. However there's still an objective part to this, which the video maker themself says is in regards to writing.
If you want to interpret an analytical video like this, based on dos and donts in writing characters, as pitting two "kindhearted lovable queens" against each other, then you're free to. Doesn't change the fact that's not the intent of this video, and a blatant disregard to everything said in the video. I personally can't stand Nilou, and Yoimiya means nothing to me, but I can still see this video isn't an attack on the girls. Please, you should definitely watch the video again, and read some comments a bit more deeply. It's okay if you like them, just don't try and change the point of this video and discussion into something it isn't.
@@Vesperad0 Firstly my comment was not that serious. Secondly I never blamed the video itself and my silly unserious little comment was more directed towards some of the people in the comments. Although in my opinion the creator took more time (the entire time, actually) to highlight the good aspects of Yoimiya and the bad aspects of Nilou. Which is fine if that’s how they feel, though that imbalance makes it easy to interpret the message being that one is better than the other, even if the creator didn’t intend for that. I certainly agree that Nilou could’ve been handled better, but Yoimiya clearly isn’t the peak of character writing either. (You don’t even care for her lmao). Anyways I do like them though neither are close to being my absolute favorites, so I don’t actually care if people dislike or even hate them. And I never said this video was a blatant attack on them.
I hope they meet in some event and become friends
I really agree, I hate that this took a good vs bad formula to make people directly compare two nice characters
I think they should instead emphasize the subject of bad writing/minimal screentime and how hoyo hasn’t completely established some characters even though they’ve been out for years now
What I really love about Yoimiya is that despite her childlike behavior, she's actually very mature. she's very aware of how messy her nation has become due to constant war, and she chooses to be the light that brighten children's hearts.
I think this perspective is interesting and I agree Nilou's story quest sucked, but I raise a strong counterpoint: Nilou is a gentle, soft-spoken female character and people hate gentle, soft-spoken female characters in media. Think Maxi from Under the Oak Tree, Hinata from Naruto, Beck from You, etc.
I also strongly disagree with Nilou having no personality; she's a strong-willed romantic. For example, she believes in Nahida despite the fact that no one else in Sumeru did at the time and how she believes Akademiya will lift the ban on dance if only they could see how happy it makes others.
Great essay here and I enjoyed it. Lots of player feel Nilou is just lacking as a character and even someone commented on her page in Genshin Wiki.
Now that she appeared in 4.8 event but I have no interest in Nilou whatsoever. I feel the main issue with Genshin is that sometimes they took the writing of a character too emphasised on what element of vision they have. Both Amber and Yoimiya are Pyro vision wielder and are active protagonist in their respective story. Now just bcs Nilou is a hydro they made her so passive even in her story quest and it made her even more unlikeable for some people. This is one of the many flaw Genshin has for a while.
It feels like everybody likes Yoimiya because she is a good person, while Nilou became a good person because everybody liked her already. This might be a point of contention, but I believe it is easier to be a good person if you are comfortable in your life and don't have to worry about anything. If you are immediately not only accepted by a community, but actively pampered by constantly getting free stuff, people offering to carry your things, or being praised for your performances, there is no reason for you to become bitter and rude. Nilou's biggest achievement in that sense is that she did not become conceited.
A notable point that I would make about Yoimiya's story quest is that we as the player are dragged around by her, both ingame and out of game. We HAVE to play the quest to continue the game and to obtain primogems, yet she is out there helping people and endangering herself for no other reason than that she wants to. Even if we don't like Yoimiya personally, we have to begrudgingly admit that she is a better person than we are. And I think that is another big point about why she is more likable. Because even those who don't particularly like her can't bring themselves to actually hate her.
I personally love Yoi because how bubbly and extroverted she is with cool na animations. I enjoy her playstyle a lot. And my favorite color is orange. So it was a match made in heaven 🧡🧡🧡
two characters that were both put before the release of a nation (the first thing i thought of 😭)
TBH, we don't even know Nilou's backstory. What tf does she even like aside from dancing? IDK.
another reason where the game fails to be interested in her 😭
It may just be me but i dont see so much depth in Yoimiya's and Nilou's characters. I mean, i like this trope when its well done and i also liked your opinion on both characters but if i had to pick a good 'everybody loves me' character it would be Jean. Her story quest is really good and you can see why everyone loves her and respects her. She is a sweet good leader but shes also overworked and has actual flaws, but she is always someone who tries her best. But as for Nilou and Yoimiya? They're like TOO perfect, not a single flaw in their character and it makes them shallow to me. This is just my opinion though, i dont hate them both i just dont love them.
Maybe this is why I hate them both 😂😂😂
I don't really like overly cheerful characters. And that's why I like about Nilou more than Yoimiya is that she doesn't try to grab my attention. Nilou just pretty cute dancer and she help me with my abyss, that's enough 😅
I agree w u sm ily
I wish people separated the "no personality" from "I don't like thier personality".
I’m so glad Nilou featured in the 4.8 Summer Event
It really allowed her to have more development on-screen as a character, since hoyo otherwise dumped any notable info about her into walls of text in her profile
She hasn’t been given a proper opportunity to show her strengths after the archon quest, which was terribly paced and did not linger on or emphasize the significance of her contributions
too bad it's not permanent
Pulling for yoimiya
At least Youmiya is fun, but Nilou's personality is truly forced
…? i dont feel like her personality is forced at all, and nobody who says that ever seems to explain themself
@@TisMeh I mean, we don't have to feel the same way about things so... no need to explain
Careful with the audio, the in game clips weher too loud in comparison to your voice. I got Yoimiya'd for godsake lmao 🤣
Honestly I kind of feel forced to like both of those characters, it’s absolutely subjective now and I talk only from my feelings, but still. I think for them not to feel what “forced” there must be at least one sacrifice they made to do something for, and story needs to point what out. Like even not massive but something at least important, like even comfort, I’m not even talking about life. I don’t really remember any of them doing something like what, they just do good things for the sake of good things, and their goodness wasn’t really anything impressive. Collei’s kindness and sweetness and how many people like her works, because it’s an end of her character development (or no?…I hope no because she’s super interesting character and I want her to be reused) and we’ve seen from where it started. She truly has strong reasons to be good, and to be like what she needed a lot of work to put, and to go outside of her comfort and stop pushing everyone away and being locked in bubble of hate she created. Bennet’s goodness works because he literally is cursed to be unlucky, but he was strong enough to make himself one of luckiest people of Teyvat (having losing friends parents and job you love is very lucky) they all work because they have struggles what affect directly them (yes they both couldn’t do it without some people around them, but it’s a +, because if they just had most tragic and horrific backstory of all and have won against all of their problems alone it would make them Mary sue, because well, no one is strong enough to just stand alone without anyone against their life issues)
Also I think perfect example is Madoka from Madoka Magica. Because Madoka is literally perfect. Like literally. She haves 0 character flaws (except being insecure and shy at some moments in life, and becoming very passive throw whole story before the very end) usually what makes us hate a character or don’t like them, think what they’re too boring or something. And Madoka don’t even haves tragic backstory she literally lives in pretty wealthy family what loves and supports her no matter what and she’s very close with them. But also we all know how dark this anime is, probably only this island of happiness attacks us, but it also makes every sacrifice what she have done a lot more weightful. Because as Homura said (it was her first line hah) “Madoka, do you have anything you don’t want to lose in your life? Yes….then don’t even dare to risk with it” but I don’t really want to spoil whole Plot, so here’s a fact: in first timeline Madoka became a magical girl to save a random street cat who was injured (she’s holding what cat in opening) just for you to know, being a magical girl is a tough work: “0 free time, constant fear for your life, fights with other magical girls because without the drop form witches you will die, being a magical girl is a game on survival, so when you make a wish you pay for it with what” and it’s like only half of the horror (because KyuBei don’t know what you need to tell about whole contract conditions even if youre not asked) and Madoka already knew Mami (it was her line) so she knew what sacrifice she was making. And she did what. For one random cat she probably never seen again. And ending of anime is literally this but 100x. Like if someone saves the galaxy but they didn’t sacrificed anything, then you feel nothing. And if someone plays with kids in dirt sacrificing their favorite clothes, WHAT is empathetic. And we actually need to see the sacrifice, not just on words how much they risk.
But what’s just my opinion so….
No, that totally makes sense, I've never thought of it from that perspective. While I've never watched Madoka Magica, I HAVE seen(and quit) shows like miraculous. Having no flaws does make a character hard to relate to, and therefore less likable as you said. Thanks for your take bro.
@@Edahs_exists hah, Madoka Magica and miraculous literally have opposite builds of plot and it’s weird to compare them since they don’t have anything in common (fight with evil in here is like office job, they hate it but they need to pay bills) but you didn’t watched it so….won’t complain.
Tho I think worst thing what can happen to main character is him being “relatable” because most of the time they don’t understand what is relatable about main character, because mainly something what can create real attachment is not even similar issues, but just seeing story the same as the viewer. For example, Anya from SpyXfamily is relatable because she’s only character to know whole premise of the show, while others are clueless. When someone makes a “relatable” character most of time it turns out character as completely dull and no one is interested in them. Or they exaggerate it so much what make them annoying, or they act like sociopaths with 0 empathy what do awful things and everyone’s fine with what (COUGH COUGH, mushoku tensei COUGH COUGH) because target audience to who they need to be relatable aren’t good people at all.
I think Traveler is supposed to be like what, but they’re not what much of a dull character, they do have a personality it’s just not really fleshed out and you need to search for it.
Damn I talk too much.
@@tayschannel2695 lol it’s okay, and I wasn’t comparing the shows itself, rather the ‘perfect’ mcs
i love yoimiya so much
Yoimiya is hot with a firey passion that sparks her beauty with her blazing aura ok I'll stop the puns
As someone who dances as a hobby, Yoimiya's quest was really boring and had a passive role on the inazuma plot. I don't find any relatability on her quest because all she did was babysitting stuff.
Nilou on the other hand is liked by everyone because she is a performer which makes her likeability justified(celebrity privilege). Nilou's actions also pushed forward a new outlook on art for Sumeru's people which is why she is popular. To put it simply, her likeability can be associated because you can admire her performance or strive to fight for her passion like she did (which is a thing for pretty much all people).
I know this video is a bit older but it summarize my opinions on the both of them pretty well.
I'm OK with Yoimiya. Her personality isn't my favorite trope but as far as the story she does more for Inazuma than Ayaka does. Ayaka's problems as a character (and this applies to Ayato too) is that it's a lot of "telling" & not "showing." Ayaka left me feeling nothing for her because we barely see her take action. At least with Yoimiya, we saw what she has been doing for her fellow Inazumans.
And while I thought her second story quest was...Kinda cheesy...At least in that one we also see Yoimiya take initiative. She has something she wants and she's took it upon herself to seek it out.
Nilou? I'll be honest- I don't like her. I did at first. I thought the role she played in the Archon Quest was fine and I liked how her dancing was used as both a distracrion and a type of "silent protest."
But her story quest. Nilou's the only character whose story quest made me like her *less.*
The problem with Nilou is that she's not treated like a character, but as a tool to drive a theme. In the AQ, Nilou's purpose is to embody both the "Nahida Supporters VS Rukkhadevata Supporters" and "Art VS Akademiya" themes of the story. She represents what the Akademiya is against.
However, after the AQ, neither of these things are or should be a problem.
Nahida, while treated warily by some, is remembered as the only Archon of Sumeru. Kusanali-supporters no longer have to rebel against Rukkhadevata-supporters. Because Rukkhadevata is no longer remembered. So Nilou being a huge Nahida-supporter isn't as impactful as it was in the AQ.
Now the Art vs Akademiya theme. While compelling in theme, it fumbles in execution. In the AQ, we do see the Akademiya try and shut down the performance and festival. That scene does make Nilou sympathetic and compelling because she's standing up for that.
That's great.
And then her Story Quest just rehashes it with less at stake and the driving force behind Nilou's decisions is an NPC.
My problem with Nilou's SQ is that it doesn't offer anything we already didn't know. We already know the Akdemiya snobs don't like the Theater. We already know Nilou's nice and will support others unconditionally. We already know she'll fight for the theatre.
The only new thing is extra NPC drama.
And what about after the AQ, when all control is returned to Nahida and they banish the sages who were responsible for everything wrong? Other Akademiya character's voice lines imply that they all respect Nilou's craft and the arts. None of them share the opinions of the sages and other Akademiya snobs (who are antagonized.)
Not to mention that said playable characters are considered high-ranking or in some way respected bt the Akademiya (Alhaithem, Cyno, Kaveh, and Faruzan.)
My point is that the "Arts Vs Akademiya" problem...Shouldn't be that big of a problem anymore. Would Nahida, Alhaithem, or even Cyno REALLY tolerate a random Akademiya professor trying to shut down Nilou's theater troupe?
It makes the “antagonist” in Nilou's SQ not only sound like he's in over his head, but also like a complete non-threat. So it further makes what Nilou is fighting for seem non-consequential.
And I understand part of Nilou’s goal is to fix this relationship between father and daughter. But in my opinion, if it wanted to be about that then it should have been JUST that. Have Nilou debate the father about the importance of valuing his daughter and her goals. Not have Nilou debate with the father about Art vs Akademiya only to give agency to the daughter. It’s such a mess of a story quest.
ANYWAY- my point is: Nilou's character was meant to embody certain themes in Sumery's AQ. With the AQ done and a lot of things changed, Nilou's themes are no longer necessary or as compelling as they were in the AQ.
All she is now is an overtly kind dancer who likes being kind and dancing.
And to your point about how "everyone likes her, but we're not given a reason why." That's exactly why I liked her less in the SQ. Nilou being nice and technically a celebrity in Sumeru is an OK explanation for why she's liked.
But it's so generic. Generic and...blah. Call me embittered, but I've grown tired of characters where their only trait is how naturally kind they are.
Making a character simple, pure and kind is OK. But that doesn't mean you make them without any fatal flaws or incapable of making bad decisions/mistakes. And that doesn't mean that you need to further emphasize how wonderful they are by villainizing characters that are written to dislike the "nice" one.
Writing simplencity and kindness requires balance
Ironically, Nilou isn't balanced.
I like simple, but Nilou is an example of where the simplicity just makes her feel so empty.
Sorry for the essay. I have…A lot of feelings about Nilou’s character that I don’t get to express. Often feels like I’m the crazy one for not finding her that compelling.
I’m confused that you complain about characters being stale when they’re kind with no fatal flaws
But then discuss how narratively poor it is that Nilou doesn’t debate the academic
Like that is her fatal flaw?????? She lives in the nation of wisdom, dominated by academia and the pursuit of knowledge, but she is not at all scholarly
She demonstrates that you don’t have to be an intellect and can still enjoy art and live a fulfilling life
I’m not gonna argue, I agree that her story quest is terrible and letting NPCs shine is awful, but her timid qualities are the flaws in her character that add to her authenticity
Wait nilou's reception has been negative???
Also like, it felt more so like yoimiya was forced down out throat and nilou was just there, like a usual character. Her whole shtick is tht her brain is completely empty.
Facts bruh. Nilou was the most crucial part of the sumeru arc because her character's purpose asks us the question about the importance of art and how art and academics can go hand in hand. Her whole story revolves around how knowledge can manifest differently such as her dancing and how other types of art forms can be of use in a nation that puts wisdom on a pedestal.
I respect your opinion, but “she isn’t a main character” isn’t a valid argument. If every single character in Genshin was a main character, we would have a much less compelling story. It’s the side characters that are important, and that’s what Nilou is.
Yeah but it was her own story quest she should be the main character of that at least imo. Nilou deserves better gang
@@Izzi_idiocy I actually haven’t played her story quest yet, (I’m not an early player, I just have more important story quests to go through, like Zhonglis or Nahidas,) and yes, she should be the main character of her own story quest, but Yoimiya’s story quest sucks ASS. I don’t even think you can consider her as the main character of HER story quest. It’s all about some NPC’s backstory, and yes, we learn about Yoimiya’s love for fireworks, but we learn that so suddenly at the end of the quest. There’s no gradual clues, no nothing. It sucks.
Not everyone can be super good at everything tho. Nilous is calm and nice, but needs help, and those aren't unlikeable things or anything.
Gasp. I smell Nilou slander.
typical bully behavior, these things happen alot irl
Nilou types are less likely to fight back and the jealous/rabidly competitive types smell this, specially if it’s those who are liked by alot of people.
Honestly I love yoimiya 10x more than miss bobble head over here, she's much more extroverted and her voice doesn't make my ears bleed (soz va)
plus she's a bow User and not a sw*rd user!
Their positioning is indeed similar. They do not have a noble status and origin, but they are very popular, they are passionate about their profession, and although they are kind but not weak. However, because their personalities don't have a growth arc, their SQ are all helping NPC
What hoyo care about:
Power creep
just another symptom of hoyo having great ideas (sometimes) but having terrible execution.Some fans like me and you give a damn about hoyo's characters more than they do.It's stupid really when you think about it
It’s tru I love Yoi
Tbh, I used to really hate Nilou. Until I got her. But it’s always like this, I often start to warm up to characters, after I get them, so it’s nothing new lol.
Well, I have both characters and I find them alright.
While I prefer Nilous design, Yoimiya is definitely more interesting character wise.
I agree with most things you’ve said. Nilous action feel so bland, and there’s no real motive except being nice (which is totally fine but doesn’t give her and the other characters around her {mainly NPCs} depth)
Also Nilou didn’t got help by a "random NPC", Inayah was literally the protagonist of Nilous story quest. (Why does Genshin love making story quests revolve around one-time NPCs???)
Do you think the new event gave Nilous justice (4.8) ?
@@frostblitzxdkartoffelliebh6081 Pretty much, yeah. Definitely a step in the right direction, she takes a lot of authority in the situation without the traveler, which is great to see. I just wish they let her be herself. In both her outfits, she’s cosplaying a god. A bit more self expression from her would be nice, but that’s just a personal nitpick. She’s much better overall.
Agreed. Yoimiya is entertaining and engaging despite being a little over-the-top and potentially annoying. Nilou, OTOH, is incredibly bland. Even her moments of participation like dancing before the Akademiya during The Great Archon Heist was just her going with the flow. An act of defiance and rebellion which took some bravery, sure, but beyond that I don't think she really offers much. Meanwhile, Yoimiya is my sister. (Or a very close approximation of her.)
Yeah the issue is really the fact that nilou is really forced unpon you, yoimiya is more hey look at this cool girl anyways the story goes on
Me personally I can't stand Nilou and I feel nothing to Yoimiya. Yoimiya is pleasant enough that I don't hate her, but Nilou...with her role in the story all I could do was come up with a better more effective role for her. My mind was actively trying to replace this girl i barely knew anything about, and when i "gave her a chance" she did nothing.
I liked the concept of someone portraying a sort of "silent protest", of her simple and harmless dancing being warped into something evil and provocative by the Akademiya for the sake of power. It's the most direct and simplest, but also probably effective, way to show the propaganda of the Akademiya, so show just how lost in the sauce they are to the point of outlawing a cultural art. Even if that puts them at odds with true and genuine wisdom, which isn't just cold hard logic but emotion and creativity as well. And I know not every character has to be outgoing or vocal, i myself am probably of a similar personality to Nilou as much as I hate it...
But there's something near indescribable with how poorly they used her character. Again, to me, it felt like they had everything there and more, but I can't help but wonder if Layla or even Faruzan would've played a better role. Nilou's just an idea to me, as another said, "lesser lord K vs greater lord R".
I couldn't even "analyze" Nilou's story quest since I hated her so much. This is just a me thing, but all I could do was role my eyes at her. At the end of the quest all I cared for was the NPC and her jerk of a father, and i dont even remember their names. Setaria in the archon quest felt more relevant to me than Nilou, and she had a vastly more interesting role to me.
All i can say for Yoimiya is that she's okay. She's admirable in some aspects, being a big sister figure to a whole bunch of kids and choosing to believe in fairytales even when it's expected, more so demanded, that you grow out of them. But on another hand she's just another outgoing character, who's cheerful and always has the best intentions and is your friendly neighborhood hero. There's nothing wrong with that, but my guess is that i either see too many of those kinds of characters in anime that I've just become burnt out by it, or that hoyo has a really large cast that is only getting bigger, making it hard to make unique personalities (even when more hostile/apathetic personalities like Chiori, Wanderer, and Alhaitham are painfully rare). Something i just came up with now, but i think i would've been more interested in her if she had unknowingly helped criminals smuggle in/out of the country, or did something that was actually problematic beyond going against an unreasonable law like the Vision Hunt Decree. She could've collected visions, unexpectedly leaving vision wielders to get harassed by the Tenryou Commission while the unmanned visions activate and harm people, or maybe gotten her vision swiped during the story showing just how much a vision can affect a person. Beyond that, show her determination despite losing an integral part of her that keeps her going. Idk, I'm not a good writer, these are just some random and definitely flawed ideas.
I feel theres a lot that can be done with Genshin's cast of characters, and if they weren't so self-limiting when it came to personalities and conflicting romes there'd be more room for a story. I dont like how the only characters that are rude or dismissive to the traveler are antagonists, villains or not, like some of the Fatui and Apep and whatnot. There should be diversity not just in the playable characters on their connection to the traveler, but in npcs and their perceptions as well. Having primarily characters that are sweet or wholesome or playful with the traveler can be nice, or even just on their own, but genshin often roleplays as Icarus and gets too close to the line of "insert yourself into this character" and "main character has an identity outside of the player". Issues with Nilou and other girl characters that are just "cinnamon rolls" would appear so much less, and it'd be easier to have more clear personalities that don't blend in together more than humans with similar personalities naturally would.
Agreed. Yoimiya was at first, to me, a character I was on the fence about. I didn't like her, I didn't dislike her That all changed after her 2nd Story Quest where I started to view her way more negatively because of how hard she gets pushed down our throats. She has 0 complexity in how she interacts with others; she's just "milking whoiesomeness" because she plays with kids, she's nice to everyone, etc and it gets very tiring very fast. And just for the sake of comparrison, Hu Tao pretty much has the same energy except she has that complexity to her. She does have reasons for acting the way she does, she has different opinions on certain characters, her dynamic with Baizhu is one of the best in the game since they're ideologically opposed bu they still respect one another. Imagine if Yoimiya had to interact with something disagreeable to her, like some Fonatine orphans whose childhood or dreams were ruined or just plain have her interact with an asshole like Wanderer and she if she can keep up that nice girl persona.
When it comes to Nilou, I got nothing. She;s so bland that the NPC in her story was more interesting. I feel like she's the victim of Hoyo just taking her job/hobby as a dancer and using that as her personality that they did for early 4 stars but she's a 5 star and the bar for writing is way higher. Kaveh's personality isn't just architect guy, Layla's personality isn't just sleep deprived girl, Faruzan's personality isn't just that she's a professor, etc.
From my perspective, Hoyoverse want to make Nilou another Ayaka - a girlfriend figure. Although the SQ try to make her more independence, the writting is not really good, so the part where Nilou started losing the debate seems ridiculous and make her looks so blend.
This summer event even make it worse 😅
But her character/role in the Archon Quest is pretty good tho, i personally really like Nilou in Act V🎉
Honestly the only "love me" character in the Story is Ayaka lmao
she didn't do $h*T in the entire story
My opinion on them: Yoimiya is annoying and Nilou is forgetable. But thats fine. The reason why there is so many characters is so that everyone can find someone they like and relate to. So I dont see their personalities as that big of a problem, both have their own fans.
I disagree with a large part of the arguments. First off, I'm mostly neutral to both characters, so I'm not that invested in arguing for or against either. However, I don't like biased arguments presented as objective.
I don't feel that the game's forcing you to like Nilou. I get more of that impression with Yoimiya, since she's far more of an in-your-face character. Nilou's consistently portrayed and shown to be genuinely nice and caring. That's reason enough for liking her, without calling it "shallow". Neither is as bad as Gaming, though. That was _awful_ in how the players were pushed to like him.
Your argument seems to imply that because Nilou's not good at arguing an academic, we shouldn't like her. Or maybe more accurately, it's bad for her likeability. People having weak sides is natural, and not something we should shun them for. It also doesn't undermine her character, since she was never portrayed as good at it (it's also about reasoning ability, not charisma), so there's nothing to undermine. While it could've been done without having her be overshadowed by an NPC, I don't think it was random, as it was being built up during the quest.
There are other arguments as well, but people have covered those in comments here, like @Anilyan13, @sephirothbahamut245, and @azrielackerman4659.
In short, I find that you highlight most good aspects of Yoimya and most bad aspects of Nilou, and present it as a fair comparison. But that said, I don't think the video is bad, or I would've just ignored it and not comment.
Lastly, the new event right now (which you obviously couldn't include without a time machine) has Nilou in a much more active role, at least in the beginning (which is all I've seen so far).
I don’t think this vid was abt proving yoi was better than Nilou tbh(correct me if im wrong tho), I think it was just abt why the community reception was different
I like nilou but Yoimiya? UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
From my experience the reception of both was pretty negative, with "She has no personality" going around.
In what universe was the reception of Yoimiya negative? Almost everyone loves her.
bruh either your voicer over is too quiet or the game audio too loud but the scenes with the game audio blew out my ears
I actually didn't like the part of yomiya playing with the kids and making up a story for then it felt totally like a pity grab written for the traveller to grow to like her so that there would be no reason to not agree with her decision to hide someone from the law like oversharing how perfect yomiya is to everyone. Even though yomiya is energetic and fun characters like that don't always need to be written to be super great and patient with children it seems more like that is done because since those character types can come off as childish it's a way to just give them something "likable" about them so they don't get too many negative criticisms for being energetic and enthusiastic about even small things
Personally, i think Yoimiya being good with kids is showing how she's a creative and child-at-heart type of person and not just a fun character who just so happens to be good with kids
Nilou's has been negative? Bruh where?
I despise Nilou sm😂(same with firefly)
As much as i personally love nilou. nilou's likability indeed feels very forced. 😭😭
I love nilou but i agree with everything you said they could have done her character better than that not to mention her forced love for the traveler
0:42 “nee-low”
0:52 “nil-oo
how hard is it to just say nee-loo ?? why do you use a different pronunciation every time you say her name
While i like both i'm less of a fan of Yoiyima. The biggest issue is that we had to deal with hers AND ayaka's story quests in the middle of the archon quest by force. Then seeing how everyone acted like she was the most perfect thing made it annoying. She revolves her entire personality around fireworks and being a kid at heart which is ok but its very frustrating to deal with that AND the ayaka "lets go find my mom's friend uwu" quest when TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE BECAUSE THE ARCHON WONT STOP THROWING A STUPID TANTRUM!
Nilou loves to dance and is a happy person but she puts up that happiness because she wants to dance for the people to help give them relief from the stress of the world and the craziness of the Akademiya. You know.. that place that locked up Nahida and hated the lesser lord? The one Nilou danced for and celebrated that day to her? Not only that but she took on a more active role because she was willing to help the group with their plans.
Mind you.. the Nilou scene happened around the time when the females were throwing off their hijabs into fire pits and fighting for their rights. The very same time when they were being unalived for going against the stupid laws by doing this. The dance scene practically parallels the real life things happening of the time. The difference was Nilou wasn't arrested. In rl the women removing their hijabs were being kidnapped, went missing and unalived... all because they were being killed for going against their laws. Even one of the youtube comments on that scene even explained it.
Even if you take away the fact the scene happened at around the same time Nilou's bravery to risk everything to give a giant middle finger to the Sages took more balls than Yoiyima who seemed to naturally beable to do anything with ease to the point she feels a bit mary sue-ish.
So for me, Nilou is more memorable because i saw her fighting for something she believes in. Same reason i will remember Folcaros and Furina's dance. The scenes were memorable and impactful
Two hot takes that people will not like me for:
Hoyo verse didn't write her to her potential.
Nilou is a bit more mature than Yoimiya. (
I was just dissapointed in nilous as I saw her design, loved it as I tend to like readheada and got hyped for the possibility of new lore for her horns and tatoo but instead we got a really vanilla character. She is still nice but I wanted to like her more
As someone with a great hate for Nilou, I'd like to give my opinion.
N.1 this doesn't really mean much, but I despise her design, the colours just don't look good to me.
N.2 Her personality is just so undefined? You will see her being a little shy and cute, and then some of her voice lines (personal and in dialogue) come off as either way too determined (and they clash with what she's usually like) or somewhat "pick me" behaviour, and I don't even mean this in a romantic sense.
N.3 Her backstory is basically "I liked to dance, so I persued it" she never struggled, and even her "troubles" are about as serious as saying "should I eat this or that tonight?". For a character to be interesting and relatable, you have to give them some kind of struggle, it doesn't need to be a life or death situation, but at least a struggle. With how she's treated her whole life it doesn't even make sense that she isn't at least a little spoiled (personality wise) which I would've genuinely preferred to her being a bland "nice" girl. Her character story is also conflicting in how it describes her intelligence, calling her "smart" first but giving more than one instances where she's an airhead.
N.4 her story quest. While some can argue that she isn't as passive as the video makes her out to be, the exploration of her character is dependent on the NPC's. And it's not like she didn't have some decently interesting parts to her character, for example she's said to be able to calm down people through body language and dance, and I would've liked her a little more if this was actually shown and explored, since she gave life to a whole type of therapy.
IMPORTANT: if you like Nilou, all props to you. Despite disliking it myself, I can see how a character without problems can be appealing, especially when the rest of the cast has some pretty heavy grief or difficult past. It simply isn't for me.
This comment is just for civil discussion, even though it may come off as a bit rude and direct, I do not mean it that way.
Most of those who hate Nilou types are women, not exactly a shock when it happens alot even in earlier years(at least in my Middle/High school) they’re almost always the ones getting bullied
it’s the same as men who hate the jock or leader types just for their personality, it doesn’t take a genius to surmise these hate stems from interpersonal battles for attention or partner competition, for women in particular they viciously yet subtly destroy people through manipulation and destroying reputation, my sister suffered from those rotten parts of society for years
Now that you comment about it, I can see it yeah. In middle school me and other girls were actively bullied by the people of our class. Looking in retrospective I can see the "Nilou type" in me and the others, but I cannot understand why people seem to dislike the "Nilou type" so much. About your sister I am really sorry she had to go through this. I hope te best to her❤
@@mritagoncalves7442 also notice how there’s really no argument against her aside from “”annoying”” and “forced”, what comes first here to them is their idea that it’s “forced” they can’t comprehend or they refuse to accept there’s simply just good people, and the fact that people like those people annoys them which is where their “”annoying”” argument comes from, it’s petty and jealousy
setting aside story/narrative related parts because they’re not really taking that into account when they say they hate Nilou
@@f.b.lagent1113 Look, I'm a dude and a Nilou disliker (or just don't care about her, yet annoyed by how Hoyo loves to shill her instead of the more deserving characters). You based something out of your personal story/trauma and comes out generalizing things that sounds like an outright reach. It 's less about people complaining about her being "forced" cause she's an honest, goody-goody every girl and more because that's all she is, a goody girl. You can be a really nice girl and still have other things going on for yourself, yet other than that Nilou is just...a dancer. She just dances and nothing else, you have to find out her depth (and even then still isn't much) by pulling her then reading up her profile instead of the better "show, don't tell" tactic. I mainly blame Hoyo's writer for this though since her design seems to be beloved by the developer teams.
To be honest I've always preferred Nilou over Yoimiya, but I do see the similarities. I think the main reason why is just because Sumeru's Archon Quest is miles better than Inazumas. Great video btw!
Im gonna voice a disagreement with the majority opinion here and state why.
My opinion is that Yoimiya feels bland and could easily be replaced by an NPC while Nilou can’t hence my favor towards Nilou by a decent amount.
Why I am not a fan of Yoimiya (i dont dislike her):
1) She’s the active kid next door helping around and has like 0 reason to actually be part of the resistance aside from her being reckless and having a vision. Not only is her plan found out but she could have been replaced by her father in the archon quest with pretty much 0 alterations as the traveller can do all the heavy lifting.
2) She talks…alot…and so quickly too.
3) Her whole character personality is basically “What if summer firework could speak?”.
Why I prefer Nilou:
1) To get it out of the way I am from the regions she represents however I actually disliked her when she first came out and her design for a long time so if anything she had an advantage.
2) Her personality is kinda the opposite of Jean, someone who depends on others to get through life. This sounds bad but thats what life in the bazaar is all about, NONE of them could get by without help and thats why people like her since they’re a big family who help each other out and in the quest its mentioned that her level of dancing skill took many years and compared her to other dancers but I guess everyone forgot she wasnt born with dancing skills.
3) She is fighting an arguably harder fight, in Inazuma its possible to escape and its infact kinda common, its not easy by any means but this has only been going on for about only 1 ingame year. In comparison Nilou is fighting a 500 year establishment that vilified their god, heavily taxed them, allowed then to work on events on purpose and waited last minute to shut them down and lastly tried seizing the area by force and killed tons of sick and elderly siphoning jgnana energy from them by abusing their love for their god. In other words she is also a brave person but just needs some encouragement (which suits the whole bazaar thing I said, so points for consistency).
4) Her story quest was slow but good, Nilou was elected against her will to represent the theater, then fought an elite scholar in his own game and nearly won, however the deck was already heavily in the Akademiya’s favor to begin with and they stood next to no chance at winning, if you cant solve these issues of art vs logic with logic then fight it with art the language of emotion.
An artist will never win a physics argument vs a physicist so they have to win in another way or play abit dirty to not get their whole lives taken away.
The daughter coming to stage is very important and so is the father’s actions, these family dynamics arent common in these parts of the world,no..They’re the standard.
Nilou’s quest is a deep and emotional commentary on many Asian cultures, how many Indian parents wanted a doctor, how many Filipino parents wanted an engineer, how many Arabian parents wanted something in STEM? It’s a herculean task to talk to these parents and the quest was to say that if parents accept their children even if they dont share their same aspirations then they can live in harmony but if they don’t its very easy to make their children’s lives misterable on purpose in hopes to “show them the light” and make them hate the parents even more and drive them to find another family/group who accept them like the Zubair theater.
It’s probably top 5 stories in terms of social commentary ingame for those who are living through it.
5) Her part in the archon quest was unclear but very important, for sure more important than saving a random dude and using fire works so a mega ninja group could collect files (again her father could have done this or given the fire works to the traveller).
Nilou is designed after the goddess of flowers and represented the culture of these nations that is living by a thread and is demonized, she also holds belief in the lesser lord and her act of defiance infront of the alademiya doors lead to the message going out TO ARREST HER which was hijacked by alhaitham which lead to the successful rescue of Nahida.
You can try to replace her with a random NPC who dances but it would hold 0 weight, Nilou represents so much and is fighting for her own reasons and unlike Yoimiya who if she doesnt fight will get lobotomized by having her vision taken which shows her motivations on another level.
In summary I don’t hate Yoimiya I do kinda like her but Nilou means too much and is a character who only gets better once you learn to read through the lines rather than needing quests to hamfist in your face every aspect of the character for you to understand them.
Could she use improvements? Yeah, alot. Is she deserving of all the hate online? Absolutely not.
Don't come after Nilou
I think ayaka should be here instead of nilou
ayaka is a much more well-written character with an actual backstory and struggles she had to overcome
Really funny, because i like nilou a fair amount, but i cant stand yoimiya, not Even a bit.
Well. I like neither 🌈
Good for u i guess?
nah, I'd hate yoimidmiya
Nilou feels super forced to me. Yoimiya feels natural and realistic without having to try hard