Absolute must have. Yoshi exhaust and Vortex ECU completely changed the bike. Mostly the ecu, as it really changed the on/off throttle in first gear and smoothed everything out. I temporarily used another tuner while waiting for the vortex to arrive and it was ok, but the Vortex is an absolute must have for the 450rl.
13k? Geez that’s steep. The ecu itself probably won’t add noticeable power, but it definitely does when combined with full exhaust. The ecu itself does noticeably change the throttle response, smooths out the jerkiness at slow speeds, doesn’t stall as easy, and the bike runs better overall. I had to use another ecu with my exhaust while I waited for the vortex, and it helped with fueling, but did not help throttle response like the vortex.
This Hands-on assessment goes well with Tacos technical breakdown of the specs. If you cannot decide on the Vortex after watching both vids then you probably don’t really need it or want it. Hoping the Getz is gonna significantly kick ass and that your gonna love it. That would be super fun and interesting. If there’s any difference my $ is on you to be the guy who can tell for sure. Looking forward to it. Thx for the vid man.
My top 2 items are the ECU and the seat. I love the Vortex and am looking forward to your GET video. Thanks for all of your videos. This is my go to channel for great honest information.
@@JohnTYoung quick question. Yesterday My 450L stopped running on a smooth flat road. My instrument cluster looked fine. There was no sputtering or any issues leading up to the engine shutting off. I came to a stop and immediately tried to restart the engine with no luck. I power cycled the bike ( turn the key off and back on) and the bike started right up. I continued my ride without any further problems. Once I got home I did some poking around the internet and found a couple of similar posts but nothing pointing to this being a common problem. All of the posters had Vortex ECU modules. The only thing that seemed to point to a culprit was the lean sensor as that requires power cycling in order to reset the ECU and allow the bike to be restarted. Have you ever experienced this? I have a little over 1600 miles on mine and have never had this happen until yesterday. I did give the bike a quick once over looking for any loose connections…. None were found.
@@christopherhamm1574 oh man that stinks. I've never had that happen and I do run the Vortex. The closest has been a few 2nd - 3rd gear flameouts, but the bike always just re-started.
@@JohnTYoung I spoke to both Tokyo Mods and my dealer. Neither have heard of the issue I described. I fully accept their lack of knowledge on this as I have only seen a couple of others reporting this myself. Thanks sk much for your reply. I look forward to your next video. Watching your videos always feels like hanging out and wrenching with a friend. Regards, Chris
@christopherhamm1574 & @JohnTYoung, thank you both for your questions and answers. I'm currently considering this bike and doing my necessary research. I really appreciate all the detailed videos and the respectful responses to them. On the engine turning off while riding subject, perhaps it may be a defective "kickstand safety shut-off switch"? That's if the bike has one. Thank you for any response in advance.
I keep saying the same thing Its not Hondas fault its the epa but vids like yours and some I've done give a blueprint on how to get around it The canvas is there Good vid
Waiting on mine for my 22 250r. This is the best I have heard someone explain the whole deal on why this is needed. Those flame outs are the biggest issue I have with the bike. Plus I want some more low end torque. Thanks brother!
I bought my 450L with a Vortex ECU and FMF pipe already fitted. I never understood why people dogged on these bikes. Then I rode a stock one... yes the ECU and an exhaust is an absolute must have if you are buying one of these. No question.
@@JohnTYoung got my '22 7/12/21 @ Cycle City in Escanaba, MI but have only put 27 mi on it so far so doesn't really count! BTW thanks so much for all the real world info!!
I did not have the vortex prior, but I will say with the AIM with select switch it’s like night and day. I’m messing with fuels and such but wow what a differencez
I’ve been rationalizing why I don’t need an ECU and why my flywheel weight mod is enough -- and then there you go using logic on me again. Damn you John 😂
Better gas mileage with the vortex? Lol. I went from 50mpg to 28-34 with the vortex. I actually bought all the bandwagon parts before I had the bike. After riding the bike with and without all the goodies I decided to go back to stock besides a G2 throttle tamer and a 53 tooth sprocket. Different strokes for different folks. Love the videos sir and glad to see you back
Oh man, the Vortex, being a racer's wet dream, does NOT improve your MPG the way it's maps are set up. I suspect you'd have to lean the bike waaaaayyyy out to get back to the stock MPG. But 9 horses are 9 horses.
That's a nice bike you have setup for yourself John. I'm still rolling on my carbureted 2012 Beta 498. Having a plate on a dirt bike is a game changer. Good on you for getting the most out of your bike with an ECU. So much easier to get power your way vs my old school jetting and adjustable leak jet.
I'm not a happy camper with Vortex. I bought 2 ECUs for my 450L. The first stranded with a no start and the second has cold start challenges. I reached out to them for an explanation and their responses have been ECU don't fail, it's your motorcycle.
For those of you that don’t want to fuss with settings, I’m happy with my AIMs ECU. Opened the air box, removed the screen under the filter, added the Yoshimura and the bike and it’s rider (me) are pleased as punch!! Now a bigger tank is a must.
John, Great to see more videos from you. You have helped me immensely with blinging out my ride and doing it all myself. As far as Vortex, I’m not happy with them !! it’s taking them over three months to even remotely get close to sending me mine. My pipe is just gathering dust and my trip to Durango is just around the corner. I was under the impression that it would fix the flame out! My bike is horrible and stalling and at times unsafe on step technical rides. I dont need a Rekluse, but I might have to get one to fix
I’ve been waiting for my vortex for 17 weeks and counting. My yoshi exhaust is also collecting dust. I keep emailing and they say it will be built, just don’t know when. Riding season isn’t getting any longer!
Related, unrelated, comment. We just got my son a fuel injected CRF125 and after seeing the dyno charts it became obvious that Honda choked it for new riders so I ordered a Dynojet to program the ECU. Haven't regretted my Vortex for a single day on my 450l but its kinda disappointing I'm now expecting to have to modify the ECU whether due to emissions or intent. And to think I thought my first JD Jetting kit for $80 was expensive😂
ECU is a must have upgrade for sure! I would have got the CR but the 22 YZ450FX comes with the wifi ecu that lets you change everything * via an app and live toggle between 2 maps via a button on the bar.
I like the mountain man look John! It would have been smart for Honda to sell an in-house competition ECU like Yamaha does with their WR lineup. Maybe throw in the map switch as well. I think the GYTR ECU only costs $150 and it fully unlocks the performance. It could be a liability thing like you mentioned but as long as they clearly state: "Off-road Competition Use ONLY", then there shouldn't be much trouble. Will be interesting to see how the GET compares. Good to see you again John.
How have you found the thermostat delete? I’m in Canada and the temps get cold sometimes… but I see you aren’t afraid of the cold either. Thanks for any info you can provide ref: thermostat delete in cooler climates.
I'm running a vortex on my 19 450l with the standard exhaust. I leaned of one click off the bottom which did help with the flame out issue, but not enough. Flames out at the most inconvenient times. Will be selling it if I can't get it sorted, which is a shame as its such a great bike.
I added the flywheel weight, set my Vortex to 555,8 on stock exhaust, opened air box. Night and day. No flameout and bike is snappy happy. Try that out mate
@@flipped68 I'll give it a crack. I lost the sheet that says what the maps are but have been running map 4 I think. The max torque one. Thanks for your input 👍
Hi John Did you have opportunity to test GET ECU from Athena ? If you have the chance, it would be fantastic to have a comparison with all knowledge you have about VORTEX. I have just done 2000 kms between road and cruising Pirinees mountain range in off-road, and I think it is a fantastic product. Your evaluation would be great !
That was a most absorbing 16 minutes John. I'm from New Zealand and our 91octane rating is 91RON(Research Octane Number). I believe your USA ratings don't align with the rest of the western world and and use AKI (Anti-Knock Index). So your 91AKI is actually 93RON. The big thing shooting from the hip is warranty. The moment you change an exhaust for the better, any engine warranty issues won't be honoured by Honda. Even though and after market ecu runs richer and controls every non second of oxygen levels, especially in closed loop mode makes running bomb proof and cooler. On my Africa Twin I got my Honda agency to fit my Acropovic full system while still on the showroom floor. Am I covered. Honda will use that to weasel out of any engine claim. Its automatic to get a budget bike or any bike for that matter to want to improve it. More riders need to know about the liability warranty consequences and talk to their dealers if their bike is new and they know they intend fitting engine performanc parts. I also have a Rally 300crf with a blown piston and munted cylinder at 6000km because I didn' t realise the difference between Ron and AKI octane. It was my fault. The ecu I got from the states was meant for 95ron, not 91ron which we consider as lawn mower fuel. I haven't seen you before half an hour ago. I couldn't take my eyes of the goodies and especially the rally stuff you have on your bike. Have you link to cover that? I would dearly like to know your thoughts on the above. Seeing the number of your prescribers, its a big ask. Subscribed
Hi Kiwi. Since Octane rating has more to do with pre-detonation than anything I'd think it's a pretty important detail to work out so you don't blow stuff up. LOL. As you know. Thanks for the lesson on the differences tho! I really appreciate it. Everything that is on my bike is listed in the video's description. Have fun with that list!
Hi John, I "bit the bullet", bought a Vortex and am very happy with it! I'm going to install the Steahly Flywheel Weight, as you suggested, to help with initial low speed throttle response. I do have a question for you, I've read the starter motor reduction gears are a potential weak link with the 450L, have you had any problems with yours? I saw the gears are pressed together and that connection over time can fail. I don't want to be on a BDR and have to push start my bike:(
I added the flywheel weight (with the help of a cheap HF press) I don't believe I have ever stalled it since, especially in the lower gear/speed riding, which is a huge plus when riding through the cities. Also have a full yoshi and the vortex.
I watch all of your videos, well done keep them coming, I do have another option though, I am in Australia and have the JD Jetting kit, Full Yoshi and air box lid in the trash😁😁
800 bucks is nothing when you spent a lot for a bike and it has issues. We all ride because we love it and want to experience the the bike as it should be.
Only had my CRF450RL about 3-4 weeks. I have the Vortex on order and look forward to it, but I've kind of learned to ride the bike in stock form. Where I ride along with my style, I don't seem to have crazy flameouts.
I just got a 22 and noticed it has a removable spark arrestor/baffle. Def not on the trail, but for dirt track only, would that cause any damage to the motor without having an aftermarket ecu(vortex) to dump more fuel? I'm eventually getting a vortex and Yoshi muffler, but love the way it sounds without the stock baffle/arrestor installed but don't wanna screw up a new bike
Imma headed West in a few weeks. Maybe I'll check out the ocean. 😎 I didn't like how the weight made the bike feel sluggish, which is of course what it's supposed to do.
It's a must have sorry but it is iv got the 2022 crf 450x and the vortex from twisted developments has kicked ass the 450x and L is chocked up my bike goes in for porting and stage 2 cam
@@JohnTYoung ya with out the ecu I cant even run a fmf powercore 4 slip on with out it sounding like crap over reving and decell popping all the way up the mts
Great video. One question I have on the Vortex handlebar switch is what value does the switch provide if you are using an FMF exhaust and map 1 (the default) is for the Yosh pipe?
The bridge at 6:30 is in my neck of the woods! Just picked up a 2022 RL with a vortex installed. Any recommended settings for general trail riding and eventually BDRs?
Really having a hard time deciding between the drz and the 450L but it really all boils down to the flame out issues of the 450L waiting to see your review on this new ecu maybe it will be the deciding factor
@@JohnTYoung yeah I know they are very different bikes but I know I can tune the drz to do the exact job that I want it to do but from just about every review I have seen on the 450L it can be a hassle with the flame out issue I guess what I really need to do is ride one and figure it out for myself
@@grtdanes0012 I mean I have been riding 450s for 18 years now and for some reason the honda's that I have owned tended to flame out much easier then the suzuki's (have ridden the other never owned any other brand 450) Just from the videos I have seen it seems like the 450L has a flame out problem that is much more pronounced then any other machine that I have owned and I currently still flame out my 05 crf450r with a rekluse clutch in slower speed hard enduro style riding I am really interested in the beta rrs models but the nearest dealership is 500+ miles away
Hi John - totally late to this party but getting a tad clenched about my Vortex on my '23 CRF450 RL. Did you ever experience difficult hot starts? Meaning, I'm trail riding, stop the bike, 2 - 5 mins later go to restart and it struggles to start. I live/ride in Western CO and was out solo this past week and thought I was about to be stranded way out in Gunni Nat'l Forest. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. It does this regularly but this past time makes me want to try the GET or a new bike....ugh
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for the reply! I made a somewhat rash decision and just went with a Husky FE350s. I'm riding terrain more suited to a 350 than the 450RL. Hope the summer is going well, stay cool man!
Hi John, thanks for your great videos. I own a 2019 European CRF450 L with only 25hp. I like the silence of this bike but the power is insufficient. I think a Vortex will be a good buy, but I wonder if keeping the muffler catalyze the vortex will be effective? Thank you for your answer.
I'm curious about how the Vortex affected your mileage - and other riders with the Vortex. I find my bike is not great. 18km/L average (about 43mpg). That gives me about 185km on a tank (IMS 11L). That's about 115 miles I believe. I love the bike, but it gives me range anxiety. I have the stock exhaust on the appropriate map but I am dialed the fuel down to 2 across the range. I would love to put an X exhaust on it (only to get rid of the cat in the muffler because the muffler gets insanely hot and I'm worried about starting a fire when I bushwhack) but I don't want to make the mileage worse.
@@JohnTYoung Yes, that makes sense. I suppose what I left unsaid was I am surprised at how the mileage I am getting compares to other 450's I hang around with and it's left me wondering if my experience is the same as other people with the 450L/vortex or if my bike is an outlier.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for that info. So, on average your mileage is slightly better than mine and that's with an aftermarket exhaust. That gives me hope that putting on an X exhaust won't tank my mileage that much more. I wonder how much altitude (and humidity) factors into the mileage ...? I live close to sea level (BC) but still ride in the mountains mostly, although at a guess I would say my average altitude is around 500 meters. I think your neck of the woods is more around 1500 meters on average. Anyway, thanks for the feedback and also the great content.
@@JohnTYoung thank you John for the answers here they stopped it may be as you said in the video a lawer thing www.fr.honda.be/motorcycles/range/adventure/crf300l/overview.html
Hi John thank you for your videos these are very useful for me. I have some questions. I have just yo buy a Graves Titanium exhaust full líne for my CRF 450l 2019 and I put on my vortex 5-5-5 and maping on number one and I have noticed that the exhaust was extremely Hot more than my old aluminium Arrow exhaust I don't understand nothing I supposed that Titanium was more cold than aluminium Previously I had running on 5-5-5 and maping on number six with Arrow exhaust and stock header pipe. What do you think is the problem? Do you think that Graves is less insulated than Arrow exhaust for temperature or maybe I had using a wrong maping for Graves. What maping do you recomend for Graves exhaust full line ? I have a termostate delete and one sensor of temperature of Water an the fan works at 93 centigrade degree and without vortex It worked at 98 or 99 more or less. Thank you in advance
I’m in the same boat. Mine runs hot too and I’m not 100% sure why. Same vortex same mapping. I’ve added 2 heat shields and reflective tape to the plastics.
I have a vortex on my 2019 crf450l and I don't think I've ever heard my fan come on and it gets hot. Do you know any work arounds to get it to come on at a lower temp or is this not an issue to be concerned with?
Would it be better and cheaper to buy a crf450R than to spend all that money modding a 450RL to be more like the 450R? Does the factory 450R have any of these poor performance issues you are mentioning? How much would be the normal used price for a 2022 crf450rl currently? I know of one for sale
Can you plate an R in your state? If yes, then it could be cheaper, tho they are still different bikes. Prices for used L/RLs are all over the place. I'm not sure there is a normal.
Did I miss the episode where you state the amount spent on Hard Parts (as opposed to clothing)? The price of the bike may vary Greatly for us individuals but the hard parts pricing tends to be fairly fixed.
Had no idea my vortex came with Trac control lol .I have been running vortex for 5,000 miles and it only started flaming out when it's a cold start or single Track lately but I have been using 87 fuel when I have to .
True. I think it's because there are a lot of street riders with cush drives and older dirt guys used to a carb who expect a different experience, but wadda i know?
I had to swap back to the Vortex for my loooooong trip. Never do a major mod to your bike just before you go somewhere, LOL. I'm still working out the video for the GET tho.
i` Was FairLy...Serious About Getting This Bike, Love iT. But Brain Says Wants XSR900. Think i` Need To Try Dirt StyLe....Rides, Love Scenerys ➕ Did L.A Mountain Bike Riding EarLy 90's, After a Few SLides, ELbows On Rocks Downhill , Maybe Need To Manup* Lol. 9 H.p iS Enough Great 4 Me, Like Ur` Vids GREATLY!!.
Hmmm. If it comes on and stays on - disconnect the battery then try again. Still no go - there's a connecter underneath the unit that can sometimes get unplugged while wrestling with the ECU. Make sure they're all good.
@@JohnTYoung I have short legs, 32 inch inseam. I wasn't far from flat footing, and this was at the dealer, so maybe you're is adjusted differently. I always see guys shorter than me fitting these bikes better.
@@JohnTYoung Oh, OK. I really like your channel, and right now I'm on a CRF300L, but I want to move to this bike, but I'm hoping guys like you will solve the flame out issue. My 300 is so smooth... weak, but smooth. Would a recluse clutch fix it?
How have you found the thermostat delete? I’m in Canada and the temps get cold sometimes… but I see you aren’t afraid of the cold either. Thanks for any info you can provide ref: thermostat delete in cooler climates.
Absolute must have. Yoshi exhaust and Vortex ECU completely changed the bike. Mostly the ecu, as it really changed the on/off throttle in first gear and smoothed everything out. I temporarily used another tuner while waiting for the vortex to arrive and it was ok, but the Vortex is an absolute must have for the 450rl.
A new ECU for sure.
I know wat Ur saying with on off throttle,, I'm waiting on my ecu , hopefully will smooth things out
Reading all this I'm glad I put the dent in my pocket ,now just waiting on my mail
Does the ECU and yosh give you a noticeable power increase? I dropped $13,000 for my new 2021, so it’s a big investment with a 1.33 exchange rate lol
13k? Geez that’s steep. The ecu itself probably won’t add noticeable power, but it definitely does when combined with full exhaust. The ecu itself does noticeably change the throttle response, smooths out the jerkiness at slow speeds, doesn’t stall as easy, and the bike runs better overall. I had to use another ecu with my exhaust while I waited for the vortex, and it helped with fueling, but did not help throttle response like the vortex.
This Hands-on assessment goes well with Tacos technical breakdown of the specs.
If you cannot decide on the Vortex after watching both vids then you probably don’t really need it or want it.
Hoping the Getz is gonna significantly kick ass and that your gonna love it. That would be super fun and interesting. If there’s any difference my $ is on you to be the guy who can tell for sure.
Looking forward to it. Thx for the vid man.
True.
My top 2 items are the ECU and the seat. I love the Vortex and am looking forward to your GET video. Thanks for all of your videos. This is my go to channel for great honest information.
Thanks Christopher!
@@JohnTYoung quick question. Yesterday My 450L stopped running on a smooth flat road. My instrument cluster looked fine. There was no sputtering or any issues leading up to the engine shutting off. I came to a stop and immediately tried to restart the engine with no luck. I power cycled the bike ( turn the key off and back on) and the bike started right up. I continued my ride without any further problems. Once I got home I did some poking around the internet and found a couple of similar posts but nothing pointing to this being a common problem. All of the posters had Vortex ECU modules. The only thing that seemed to point to a culprit was the lean sensor as that requires power cycling in order to reset the ECU and allow the bike to be restarted.
Have you ever experienced this? I have a little over 1600 miles on mine and have never had this happen until yesterday. I did give the bike a quick once over looking for any loose connections…. None were found.
@@christopherhamm1574 oh man that stinks. I've never had that happen and I do run the Vortex. The closest has been a few 2nd - 3rd gear flameouts, but the bike always just re-started.
@@JohnTYoung I spoke to both Tokyo Mods and my dealer. Neither have heard of the issue I described. I fully accept their lack of knowledge on this as I have only seen a couple of others reporting this myself.
Thanks sk much for your reply. I look forward to your next video. Watching your videos always feels like hanging out and wrenching with a friend.
Regards,
Chris
@christopherhamm1574 & @JohnTYoung, thank you both for your questions and answers.
I'm currently considering this bike and doing my necessary research. I really appreciate all the detailed videos and the respectful responses to them.
On the engine turning off while riding subject, perhaps it may be a defective "kickstand safety shut-off switch"? That's if the bike has one. Thank you for any response in advance.
I keep saying the same thing Its not Hondas fault its the epa but vids like yours and some I've done give a blueprint on how to get around it The canvas is there Good vid
Thanks Goon!
Somone’s been hitting the gym lately - Looking good, John!
I've been hitting the gym forever, it's just now paying off. Gotta look good in my speedos, right?
Waiting on mine for my 22 250r.
This is the best I have heard someone explain the whole deal on why this is needed. Those flame outs are the biggest issue I have with the bike. Plus I want some more low end torque. Thanks brother!
You're welcome!
I bought my 450L with a Vortex ECU and FMF pipe already fitted. I never understood why people dogged on these bikes. Then I rode a stock one... yes the ECU and an exhaust is an absolute must have if you are buying one of these. No question.
Agreed!
john t. silverhand - Thanks for the info. First week with 22RL. loving it. The idea that it can get better excites me
You're the first one to get it!
@@JohnTYoung got my '22 7/12/21 @ Cycle City in Escanaba, MI but have only put 27 mi on it so far so doesn't really count! BTW thanks so much for all the real world info!!
Got the new aim from taco and so far it’s amazing. Working on some content for it as we speak, great video! Glad to see more content
Had you had the Vortex before the AIM?
Does the AIM work as good or better then the vortex?
I did not have the vortex prior, but I will say with the AIM with select switch it’s like night and day. I’m messing with fuels and such but wow what a differencez
I’ve been rationalizing why I don’t need an ECU and why my flywheel weight mod is enough -- and then there you go using logic on me again. Damn you John 😂
I'm kinda an ass that way.
@@JohnTYoung - great vids man / i really appreciate the time, effort, and genuineness you bring to the CRF and RUclips family.
Better gas mileage with the vortex? Lol. I went from 50mpg to 28-34 with the vortex. I actually bought all the bandwagon parts before I had the bike. After riding the bike with and without all the goodies I decided to go back to stock besides a G2 throttle tamer and a 53 tooth sprocket. Different strokes for different folks. Love the videos sir and glad to see you back
Oh man, the Vortex, being a racer's wet dream, does NOT improve your MPG the way it's maps are set up. I suspect you'd have to lean the bike waaaaayyyy out to get back to the stock MPG. But 9 horses are 9 horses.
@@JohnTYoung I would be interested in understanding the mileage using the GET
@@jg5529 I have a feeling it will be about the same as the vortex. With great horsepower comes bad MPG, my uncle used to tell me.
That's a nice bike you have setup for yourself John. I'm still rolling on my carbureted 2012 Beta 498. Having a plate on a dirt bike is a game changer. Good on you for getting the most out of your bike with an ECU. So much easier to get power your way vs my old school jetting and adjustable leak jet.
I'm just not smart enough to figure out jetting and needles and those little brass bits that keep getting lost. Just give me a button to push.
@@JohnTYoung I hear you there!! Even the 2 strokes are going FI and back to good old oil injection.
ECU with a Recluse clutch on my 20 works great.
Love your vids
Thanks Kelly
I'm not a happy camper with Vortex. I bought 2 ECUs for my 450L. The first stranded with a no start and the second has cold start challenges. I reached out to them for an explanation and their responses have been ECU don't fail, it's your motorcycle.
That's a bummer! Maybe try the GET ECU?
Send it to twisted developments
For those of you that don’t want to fuss with settings, I’m happy with my AIMs ECU. Opened the air box, removed the screen under the filter, added the Yoshimura and the bike and it’s rider (me) are pleased as punch!! Now a bigger tank is a must.
I like the AIM and the GET more than the Vortex too.
John, Great to see more videos from you. You have helped me immensely with blinging out my ride and doing it all myself. As far as Vortex, I’m not happy with them !! it’s taking them over three months to even remotely get close to sending me mine. My pipe is just gathering dust and my trip to Durango is just around the corner. I was under the impression that it would fix the flame out! My bike is horrible and stalling and at times unsafe on step technical rides. I dont need a Rekluse, but I might have to get one to fix
They do NOT always fix the flameout. Sorry. When are you coming to Durango again?
@@JohnTYoung Durango June 24-30. Will the Rekluse eliminate the stalling? I bothers the Hell out of me
@@ebhkkc1 not completely. Sorry
I’ve been waiting for my vortex for 17 weeks and counting. My yoshi exhaust is also collecting dust. I keep emailing and they say it will be built, just don’t know when. Riding season isn’t getting any longer!
@@mansaaron1 That stinks!
Related, unrelated, comment. We just got my son a fuel injected CRF125 and after seeing the dyno charts it became obvious that Honda choked it for new riders so I ordered a Dynojet to program the ECU. Haven't regretted my Vortex for a single day on my 450l but its kinda disappointing I'm now expecting to have to modify the ECU whether due to emissions or intent. And to think I thought my first JD Jetting kit for $80 was expensive😂
I had a JD on my CBR600RR that you could. Time on your laptop and trade maps with people. Today, not so much.
Good to hear from you!
@@JohnTYoung Hey you too!
On your advise, did the Vortex and Yoshi mod. Love it. Wouldn’t go back to stock. Thanks for the great videos, John
Thanks for watching Pat.
Jeez John, gettin' swole!!! But in all seriousness, I strongly recommend getting an ECU, especially for the CRF450L/CRF450RL.
LOL. I'm working on my summer beach body LUKKEN.
ECU is a must have upgrade for sure! I would have got the CR but the 22 YZ450FX comes with the wifi ecu that lets you change everything * via an app and live toggle between 2 maps via a button on the bar.
It's my understanding that the YZ ECU is made by Athena...
@@JohnTYoung Like you said with the bike cost at $11.k+ the ECU to open the full potential is like a requirement.
Another great video JTY….. I have the Vortex on my ‘18 450L / FMF pipe and it is definitely needed. All installed using your install video.
Thanks Richard! I am hoping to run through all the new ECU offerings and see which I like best. But yes, the Vortex works fantastic.
You have an '18 450L? I didn't know those existed.
I have the GET on my KTM 500 and it’s transformative. I’ve heard even more so for the Honda
It is! Video coming as soon as I get a few minutes.
Im anxious to see your review of the get because everyone says something different.We need a non biased opinion. Thanks
Just got back from beating it up a little. I am mostly impressed. But I did flame out and crash going super slow once, so there's that.
I like the mountain man look John! It would have been smart for Honda to sell an in-house competition ECU like Yamaha does with their WR lineup. Maybe throw in the map switch as well. I think the GYTR ECU only costs $150 and it fully unlocks the performance. It could be a liability thing like you mentioned but as long as they clearly state: "Off-road Competition Use ONLY", then there shouldn't be much trouble. Will be interesting to see how the GET compares. Good to see you again John.
I believe Honda, for their street legal bikes, values reliability above everything else. But ya, it would be nice if they gave us some options.
The Vortex is a must have. I installed it and transformed my CRF450L into a super responsive well fueled machine. Worth every Penny.
Nice!
OMG I had no idea about the traction control. Thanks heaps
I'm here for you Dara...
How have you found the thermostat delete? I’m in Canada and the temps get cold sometimes… but I see you aren’t afraid of the cold either. Thanks for any info you can provide ref: thermostat delete in cooler climates.
It's been running just fine, but, if I were riding more when it's really cold out I would have left the thermostat in.
Eagerly awaiting your review on the GET John
Eagerly waiting on the rain to stop so I can get the GET review to you! Give me a week or two.
Just installed mine with a Yoshi on my RL, great informative vid. Thank you sir!
You’re welcome
As always, thanks John!
Anything for you Damon.
I'm running a vortex on my 19 450l with the standard exhaust. I leaned of one click off the bottom which did help with the flame out issue, but not enough. Flames out at the most inconvenient times. Will be selling it if I can't get it sorted, which is a shame as its such a great bike.
It can be downright dangerous sometimes, I know.
I added the flywheel weight, set my Vortex to 555,8 on stock exhaust, opened air box. Night and day. No flameout and bike is snappy happy. Try that out mate
@@flipped68 I'll give it a crack. I lost the sheet that says what the maps are but have been running map 4 I think. The max torque one. Thanks for your input 👍
Thanks for the breakdown, very useful info.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi John
Did you have opportunity to test GET ECU from Athena ?
If you have the chance, it would be fantastic to have a comparison with all knowledge you have about VORTEX.
I have just done 2000 kms between road and cruising Pirinees mountain range in off-road, and I think it is a fantastic product.
Your evaluation would be great !
The GET is going on the bike today. Look for a comparison in a week or two. Thanks!
That was a most absorbing 16 minutes John. I'm from New Zealand and our 91octane rating is 91RON(Research Octane Number). I believe your USA ratings don't align with the rest of the western world and and use AKI (Anti-Knock Index). So your 91AKI is actually 93RON. The big thing shooting from the hip is warranty. The moment you change an exhaust for the better, any engine warranty issues won't be honoured by Honda. Even though and after market ecu runs richer and controls every non second of oxygen levels, especially in closed loop mode makes running bomb proof and cooler. On my Africa Twin I got my Honda agency to fit my Acropovic full system while still on the showroom floor. Am I covered. Honda will use that to weasel out of any engine claim. Its automatic to get a budget bike or any bike for that matter to want to improve it. More riders need to know about the liability warranty consequences and talk to their dealers if their bike is new and they know they intend fitting engine performanc parts. I also have a Rally 300crf with a blown piston and munted cylinder at 6000km because I didn' t realise the difference between Ron and AKI octane. It was my fault. The ecu I got from the states was meant for 95ron, not 91ron which we consider as lawn mower fuel. I haven't seen you before half an hour ago. I couldn't take my eyes of the goodies and especially the rally stuff you have on your bike. Have you link to cover that? I would dearly like to know your thoughts on the above. Seeing the number of your prescribers, its a big ask. Subscribed
Hi Kiwi. Since Octane rating has more to do with pre-detonation than anything I'd think it's a pretty important detail to work out so you don't blow stuff up. LOL. As you know.
Thanks for the lesson on the differences tho! I really appreciate it.
Everything that is on my bike is listed in the video's description. Have fun with that list!
Hi John, I "bit the bullet", bought a Vortex and am very happy with it! I'm going to install the Steahly Flywheel Weight, as you suggested, to help with initial low speed throttle response. I do have a question for you, I've read the starter motor reduction gears are a potential weak link with the 450L, have you had any problems with yours? I saw the gears are pressed together and that connection over time can fail. I don't want to be on a BDR and have to push start my bike:(
I’ve heard that as well but so far my bike hasn’t been affected by it
I added the flywheel weight (with the help of a cheap HF press) I don't believe I have ever stalled it since, especially in the lower gear/speed riding, which is a huge plus when riding through the cities. Also have a full yoshi and the vortex.
Long time no see, another great video sir. Thank you
Thanks!
I watch all of your videos, well done keep them coming, I do have another option though, I am in Australia and have the JD Jetting kit, Full Yoshi and air box lid in the trash😁😁
I had the JD for a while too. I didn't like it, tho it was way more affordable.
Lovin the beard bro 💪😎👍
Makes me look more mature. 🎅
@@JohnTYoung makes you look very masculine 😉 😅
Great to see a couple more vids up, been missing ya 🤠👍
@@jonoj7666 Sorry mate, I was busy growing my beard. Now that that's done I'll try to make more videos for oun.
Thanks John...You ROCK....
Right back atcha Dan.
Thanks John for the great info. I'll be upgrading to the Vortex on my 450l.
Nice. Have fun!
yeh good point, puts it in perspective
Thanks Sacha
800 bucks is nothing when you spent a lot for a bike and it has issues. We all ride because we love it and want to experience the the bike as it should be.
Everything I own that can be modded, has been modded.
Agreed. Has to be done
Only had my CRF450RL about 3-4 weeks. I have the Vortex on order and look forward to it, but I've kind of learned to ride the bike in stock form. Where I ride along with my style, I don't seem to have crazy flameouts.
Throttle control, I think, is the key.
I just got a 22 and noticed it has a removable spark arrestor/baffle. Def not on the trail, but for dirt track only, would that cause any damage to the motor without having an aftermarket ecu(vortex) to dump more fuel? I'm eventually getting a vortex and Yoshi muffler, but love the way it sounds without the stock baffle/arrestor installed but don't wanna screw up a new bike
@@curtwilliams6655 I doubt removing the spark arrestor is going to change the exhaust flow enough to even notice. Might make it a hair louder.
Hey John, where's the beach? In all seriousness, should I get the Steahly counter weight before I get an ecu. Going to be woods riding mostly
Imma headed West in a few weeks. Maybe I'll check out the ocean. 😎 I didn't like how the weight made the bike feel sluggish, which is of course what it's supposed to do.
Very nice. I'm a new rider to motorcycles but I have ridden quads and trikes for years. I want a rekluse clutch too
It's a must have sorry but it is iv got the 2022 crf 450x and the vortex from twisted developments has kicked ass the 450x and L is chocked up my bike goes in for porting and stage 2 cam
Agreed
@@JohnTYoung ya with out the ecu I cant even run a fmf powercore 4 slip on with out it sounding like crap over reving and decell popping all the way up the mts
John I’ve heard the gas mileage drops significantly with the vortex, do you agree? How about gas mileage with the new Get SX1 from Tacomoto?
More gas in for more horse power out no matter what. It did go down but I don’t recall by how much.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
My pleasure!
Great video. One question I have on the Vortex handlebar switch is what value does the switch provide if you are using an FMF exhaust and map 1 (the default) is for the Yosh pipe?
I've got a feeling that there isn't a ton of difference in the mapping between one exhaust and the other. But you're right, don't make no sense.
Is the switch worth getting if you go with the vortex?
The bridge at 6:30 is in my neck of the woods! Just picked up a 2022 RL with a vortex installed. Any recommended settings for general trail riding and eventually BDRs?
I've kept mine in the middle the whole time.
Really having a hard time deciding between the drz and the 450L but it really all boils down to the flame out issues of the 450L waiting to see your review on this new ecu maybe it will be the deciding factor
I think there are bigger differences between the two, but the flame out thing is a real disadvantage.
@@JohnTYoung yeah I know they are very different bikes but I know I can tune the drz to do the exact job that I want it to do but from just about every review I have seen on the 450L it can be a hassle with the flame out issue I guess what I really need to do is ride one and figure it out for myself
@@mattbarrois8675 very true. and yes, give them a ride - it's really the best way.
I can’t speak for the original 450l, but my 2021 450rl has had NO flame out issues even stock, but certainly not with the vortex installed.
@@grtdanes0012 I mean I have been riding 450s for 18 years now and for some reason the honda's that I have owned tended to flame out much easier then the suzuki's (have ridden the other never owned any other brand 450)
Just from the videos I have seen it seems like the 450L has a flame out problem that is much more pronounced then any other machine that I have owned and I currently still flame out my 05 crf450r with a rekluse clutch in slower speed hard enduro style riding
I am really interested in the beta rrs models but the nearest dealership is 500+ miles away
Hi John - totally late to this party but getting a tad clenched about my Vortex on my '23 CRF450 RL. Did you ever experience difficult hot starts? Meaning, I'm trail riding, stop the bike, 2 - 5 mins later go to restart and it struggles to start. I live/ride in Western CO and was out solo this past week and thought I was about to be stranded way out in Gunni Nat'l Forest. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. It does this regularly but this past time makes me want to try the GET or a new bike....ugh
Hmmm> I never had that issue. Did you fuss with the settings? 5.5.5?
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for the reply! I made a somewhat rash decision and just went with a Husky FE350s. I'm riding terrain more suited to a 350 than the 450RL. Hope the summer is going well, stay cool man!
John thx for the vids. I own a Beta 500 and have adopted your choice of upgrades to build a lite ADV. By the way, 👍on black flag in background.
Thanks Randy!
Hi John, thanks for your great videos.
I own a 2019 European CRF450 L with only 25hp.
I like the silence of this bike but the power is insufficient.
I think a Vortex will be a good buy, but I wonder if keeping the muffler catalyze the vortex will be effective?
Thank you for your answer.
That stinks. I’d have to “fix” that.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks, so you think that's not a good idea?
to keep the original silencer catalyzed with the vortex?
@@EriclAventurier 25 hp ? No. Lol
@@EriclAventurier what happens if you replace the air boot with an open one and add an ECU?
I did order my ECU in February. About a month past the date I was told to expect. I presume it’s floating in a boat out in the ocean. (If I’m lucky)
Maybe it's stuck in a canal somewhere?
Just got a crf450rl, no flameouts. I can see what everyone is referring to about the twitchiness when going on / off throttle though.
Many EFI thumpers suffer from this issue
@@JohnTYoung Yeah. I didn't think it was too bad.
The g2 throttle tamer did wonders alone for me. Didn't feel the need for an ECU.
Hmmmm.... Apples and Apple Pies
I'm curious about how the Vortex affected your mileage - and other riders with the Vortex. I find my bike is not great. 18km/L average (about 43mpg). That gives me about 185km on a tank (IMS 11L). That's about 115 miles I believe. I love the bike, but it gives me range anxiety. I have the stock exhaust on the appropriate map but I am dialed the fuel down to 2 across the range. I would love to put an X exhaust on it (only to get rid of the cat in the muffler because the muffler gets insanely hot and I'm worried about starting a fire when I bushwhack) but I don't want to make the mileage worse.
You can’t have more horsepower (burn more fuel) and better gas mileage. They are, to a degree, mutually exclusive.
@@JohnTYoung Yes, that makes sense. I suppose what I left unsaid was I am surprised at how the mileage I am getting compares to other 450's I hang around with and it's left me wondering if my experience is the same as other people with the 450L/vortex or if my bike is an outlier.
Oh! Gotcha. My average for the last 3000 miles is 44.7.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for that info. So, on average your mileage is slightly better than mine and that's with an aftermarket exhaust. That gives me hope that putting on an X exhaust won't tank my mileage that much more. I wonder how much altitude (and humidity) factors into the mileage ...? I live close to sea level (BC) but still ride in the mountains mostly, although at a guess I would say my average altitude is around 500 meters. I think your neck of the woods is more around 1500 meters on average. Anyway, thanks for the feedback and also the great content.
Hi John Thank you very much for your video's.
Do you have any idea why Honda stopped the commercialisation of the CRF 450L ?
Thanks! But I'm not sure what you mean...
@@JohnTYoung here in Europe honda stopped to sell the crf 450 L.
Is it the same in the US?
My question is do you know why they stopped?
I hadn’t heard that. As far as I know the RL/L is still going strong
@@JohnTYoung thank you John for the answers here they stopped it may be as you said in the video a lawer thing
www.fr.honda.be/motorcycles/range/adventure/crf300l/overview.html
Hi John thank you for your videos these are very useful for me.
I have some questions. I have just yo buy a Graves Titanium exhaust full líne for my CRF 450l 2019 and I put on my vortex 5-5-5 and maping on number one and I have noticed that the exhaust was extremely Hot more than my old aluminium Arrow exhaust I don't understand nothing I supposed that Titanium was more cold than aluminium
Previously I had running on 5-5-5 and maping on number six with Arrow exhaust and stock header pipe.
What do you think is the problem? Do you think that Graves is less insulated than Arrow exhaust for temperature or maybe I had using a wrong maping for Graves. What maping do you recomend for Graves exhaust full line ?
I have a termostate delete and one sensor of temperature of Water an the fan works at 93 centigrade degree and without vortex It worked at 98 or 99 more or less.
Thank you in advance
I’m in the same boat. Mine runs hot too and I’m not 100% sure why. Same vortex same mapping. I’ve added 2 heat shields and reflective tape to the plastics.
@@JohnTYoung thank you for your answer.
Did you run Hot in your old Yoshimura exhaust?
@@Jmelgroz No. It never got over 200F. Ever. Weird.
I have a vortex on my 2019 crf450l and I don't think I've ever heard my fan come on and it gets hot. Do you know any work arounds to get it to come on at a lower temp or is this not an issue to be concerned with?
How hot is hot? The fan ought to come on at 200 or so degrees. My bike has gotten close, but never gone over.
It will not come on with the engine off like the stock ecu. When it’s running warmed up if you look down you can see it running.
Would it be better and cheaper to buy a crf450R than to spend all that money modding a 450RL to be more like the 450R? Does the factory 450R have any of these poor performance issues you are mentioning? How much would be the normal used price for a 2022 crf450rl currently? I know of one for sale
Can you plate an R in your state? If yes, then it could be cheaper, tho they are still different bikes. Prices for used L/RLs are all over the place. I'm not sure there is a normal.
Did I miss the episode where you state the amount spent on Hard Parts (as opposed to clothing)? The price of the bike may vary Greatly for us individuals but the hard parts pricing tends to be fairly fixed.
Nope. I never really added it all up.
Had no idea my vortex came with Trac control lol .I have been running vortex for 5,000 miles and it only started flaming out when it's a cold start or single Track lately but I have been using 87 fuel when I have to .
Merry Christmas!
my ktm 525 is carbed. its real cheap and easy to change the needles and pilot jets to get it how i like it. we should just go back to carbureted bikes
8 track players?
Is there a simple trick when setting the Vortex up with the map switch?
On the switch, Map 1 is Map 1 and X10 is the map selected on the ECU dial. That’s it I think
A lot of EFI dirt bikes have the Herky Jerky throttle off decel, but the Honda gets most the hate for it.
True. I think it's because there are a lot of street riders with cush drives and older dirt guys used to a carb who expect a different experience, but wadda i know?
@@JohnTYoung Yep. KLX's have a secondary throttle plate, the throttle response feels just like a CV carb
Thank you very interesting. Salut from France 🤝🇫🇷🤝
Thank you!
Have you got an update on the Athena ECU?Thanks!
I had to swap back to the Vortex for my loooooong trip. Never do a major mod to your bike just before you go somewhere, LOL. I'm still working out the video for the GET tho.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for replying. Indeed good point on mods before a trip. You must be sure everything works.
Just wondering can you put the ecu from the honda 450 non street legal bike in the 450L?
I err ummm. Dunno.
i` Was FairLy...Serious About Getting This Bike, Love iT. But Brain Says Wants XSR900. Think i` Need To Try Dirt StyLe....Rides, Love Scenerys ➕ Did L.A Mountain Bike Riding EarLy 90's, After a Few SLides, ELbows On Rocks Downhill , Maybe Need To Manup* Lol. 9 H.p iS Enough Great 4 Me, Like Ur` Vids GREATLY!!.
Thanks for the comments Bryan. I rode street for years. I should have played in the dirt earlier and way more often.
I love mine
I've gotten a few thousand trouble-free miles out of mine, that's for sure.
Got the vortex and yoshimura combo and after a few minutes of riding the check engine light comes on any idea 555 2 is current map
Hmmm. If it comes on and stays on - disconnect the battery then try again. Still no go - there's a connecter underneath the unit that can sometimes get unplugged while wrestling with the ECU. Make sure they're all good.
Thank you very much ill have to try it
You only need the Vortex if you screw around with the exhaust, if you leave standard you don’t need it
Uh huh.
Nice shirt dude! It's a shame that the game was a dud
2nd favorite game after Witcher 3. I've played through sooooooooo many times. Try it now that patch 1.5 is out.
I see you feet touch the ground on the bike. Can I ask how tall you are. I'm 6'1", and I can't flat foot it. Did you lower it?
Hmmmm. I'm 5-9 and I did not lower it. Are you sure you're 6-1?
@@JohnTYoung I have short legs, 32 inch inseam. I wasn't far from flat footing, and this was at the dealer, so maybe you're is adjusted differently. I always see guys shorter than me fitting these bikes better.
@@Alaska_MD Oh, I can't flat-foot it on both sides. Not at all.
@@JohnTYoung Oh, OK. I really like your channel, and right now I'm on a CRF300L, but I want to move to this bike, but I'm hoping guys like you will solve the flame out issue. My 300 is so smooth... weak, but smooth. Would a recluse clutch fix it?
@@Alaska_MD saddly no. It's not really a stalling problem, which the Reklus can fix. It's a fueling problem.
Mine is supposed to hook up to the existing stock map control button
KTM?
Maybe substitute lawyers for politicians. Although that usually the same thing.
When we go 100% electric all this will seem silly.
hi, please what does « DRI » motor and pipe mean?
I'm not sure Amine.
Where did John go?
Well, didn’t matter. The hairy guy did a great job!
And the award for Best Snarky Comment goes to......
@@JohnTYoung was aiming for “witty” not “snarky”. No disrespect intended.
@@steveh545 LOL. It's all good Steve. Whatever your intent you made me smile.
Wow John! Check out dem gainz, you barely fit your shirt! Nice job man.
LOL. I eat a lot.
No jokes man, you look great.
Did I miss the GET ECU video?
Nope. It's still waiting on a few more pieces of info. And wating, and waiting.
Don’t blame faceless lawyers, the real cause is faceless bureaucrats and spineless politicians
Lawyer?
Hitting the gym??? All he’s doing is eating and drinking everything in sight-
so why bother shaving. I totally get it.
Ain't nobody got time to shave.
@@JohnTYoung Oh No. Chasing SuperModels around the Yacht again are we?
I knew this TubeStar stuff was gonna be your downfall.
Do you even lift Bro?!
Lol.
My bike when I tip over. Which is often.
Shoplift maybe.
Hopefully you know I’m giving you a hard time?. I know that doesn’t always translate over posts on threads.
How have you found the thermostat delete? I’m in Canada and the temps get cold sometimes… but I see you aren’t afraid of the cold either. Thanks for any info you can provide ref: thermostat delete in cooler climates.
It's been running just fine, but, if I were riding more when it's really cold out I would have left the thermostat in.