I believe I have a unique tie to Scapa Flow, although never having visited it. My grandfather earned his Iron Cross for helping scuttle his ship in 1919 when the German fleet scuttled at Scapa Flow and we still have the jackstaff flag from his ship. My father earned his first Iron Cross as part of the Luftwaffe flight crew that took the reconnaissance photos showing the potential entry into Scapa Flow. He was a radioman on the plane at the time and eventually became a Ju-88 and Ju-188 reconnaissance pilot and a squadron commander, earning multiple medals for his work, but also earning 3 months in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp after the attempted assassination of Hitler when one of his squadron mates reported him to the Gestapo for remarks he had made about Hitler (my father's family was not supportive of Hitler and had tried to get my father and his cousin to the U.S. prior to start of the war in September, 1939). He was offered two options after 3 months of interrogation and imprisonment. Option 1 was to be shot at dawn. Option 2 was to be returned to his squadron, but reduced in rank from Captain to highest NCO level, not be allowed to be pilot in command on any flights, and to fly night missions in Italy for the rest of the war (which was about 50% fatality rate at the time). He chose option 2, was shot down 3 times subsequently (we have photos of one shoot down aftermath), lost the tip of his left little finger due to a .30 caliber bullet coming through the cockpit glass, and kept his crew members alive. One thing he told us of that time was that although the plane had to take off with him in the co-pilot's seat, he and the pilot would switch seats immediately after becoming airborne as his crew knew he was the best pilot and would keep them alive. He was allowed to immigrate from Germany in 1952, along with his sister and a Lutheran minister and they were among the first group of German emigres from Hamburg to the U.S. He ended up in Detroit where his uncle had a tool and die shop and by 1964 he and his partners had a shop with 200 employees and my father was the president of the Detroit tool and die association. He was also one of the first Detroit area tool and die shop owners to hire African-American employees as tool and die machinists and always told my brothers and I that it was the quality of work a man created, not what color his skin was. He never went back to Germany as he had many bad memories of the war and immediate post war period although he always enjoyed talking to other pilots from WW2. One of the more interesting events that occurred later in his life was when my brother graduated from U.S. Navy pilot training. One of the Navy traditions is that if your father was a military pilot, he could pin his wings on his son as part of the induction ceremony. You could have heard a pin drop in the room when my dad pinned his Luftwaffe reconnaissance pilot's wings on my brother's chest and afterwards every pilot in the room, both newly minted and veteran fathers, wanted to talk with him about his experiences. He passed away in 1988 and we have his logbook, medals, and many photos from his time in the war.
Ditto, thanks for sharing. Personal stories like this deserve to be remembered; my great granddad served in ww1, one of my grandads in 2, but they both died when I was very young, and I never thought to ask. By the time I felt stories like this were important there was no one compos mentis enough to ask: I'll always regret that.
German settlers in America during the 1800’s were staunchly anti slavery and anti monarchy, and were more fervent in their support of democracy and equality than many of the English settlers.
I've seen the wreck of the Oak a few times, however the most poignant was in October 2010 from a small boat owned by my great uncle. It was a flat calm day and he positioned the boat over the wreck and told all of us to look over the side. It took a few seconds to make things out, but there she was, clear as day, there was her bilge keel pointing up towards us, several holes in her side with the ribs poking through and further down, her secondary armaments were just visible. For about a minute we slowly drifted along her from a point roughly amidships towards her stern (the propellor shaft and rudder eventually coming in to view) before sailing off again. A remarkably and quite haunting experience. Worthy of mention is the fact that my great uncle had lived in a house overlooking the wreck site his entire life and remembered going to bed one night with the Oak outside his window and waking up to nothing other than an oil slick the next morning. The boat was also worthy of mention, being a steam launch he had built himself out of scrap, the hull having started life as a German Navy pinnace from WWI, the engine being salvaged from a White steam car, the boiler being made from offcuts of pipe from the oil terminal on the island of Flotta and the condenser being made from salvaged parts of HMS Vanguard's condenser.
If he's still alive, the 2 of you could make a really interesting documentary. He probably has a more nuts and bolts knowledge of the history of the Flow than anyone.
My brother and I visited Scapa Flow in 2019, quite a moving experience. A bleak and inhospitable place with a superb guided history walk around the old naval base. During the wars, thousands of navy personnel were based here, a truly enormous base. Only fragmentary elements remain, but well worth seeing with a guide. And the Churchill barriers are highly evident, supporting roads between the various islands.
I was actually at Orkney staying in Kirkwall on the 100th anniversary of the scuttling of the High Seas fleet on 21 June, 2019. Fantastic trip and tour.
Orkneys hardly bleak and inhospitable... I've dived the sunken fleet and drank in the local pubs when a "tarring" was occurring... U must be American 😂😂
@@fghjjjk Not the Orkneys in general, they’re beautiful. But the Flow itself seemed bleak and inhospitable in the cold, driving rain that was falling when we visited. And my reference is Dorset, which is where I live.
Some extra exposition about U-47 on this episode: 1. Ka-Leu Prien was called the “Bull of Scapa Flow” (as mentioned in the video). On their return to Germany, U-47’s crew painted a snorting bull on the conning tower to commemorate the feat. It would eventually become the symbol of the 7th Uboat flotilla. 1. U-47 did not immediately attack upon arrival at Scapa Flow. It waited outside the harbor for several days waiting for the ideal conditions to enter the harbor. It sat on the bottom during the day and surfaced at night to charge batteries. 3. U-47’s attack may have changed the course of WW2. Germany had only 39 uboats in September, 1939. The attack was meant as an attempt to get more funding for uboat production since German naval doctrine was still centered around surface units. What began as 39 uboats eventually exploded to 1,162 by the war’s end. It can be argued that had this attack failed, then Hitler might have given more funding to surface ships instead of the more effective uboats. 4. A torpedo that was found in Scapa Flow in 2016 is believed to be one of U-47’s missed torpedoes. 5. The failure of the first 2 attacks is most likely due to poorly designed torpedoes. Gunther Prien and many other uboat commanders (and the Americans years later) complained of defective torpedoes. U-47 attacked another British battleship, HMS Warspite, during the invasion of Norway. The torpedoes were so awful that Prien refused to fire another torpedo at a convoy later that day. He would declare to Admiral Doenitz that he might as well have been fighting with “wooden rifles.”
Very good point. That is how the upper crust of the Military handles all tragedies. They take no responsibility for their lack of planning and action by punishing lower-ranking subordinates because someone must be held responsible. A perfect example was the unfair treatment that General Short and Admiral Kimmel received after the Attack on Pearl Harbor. The lack of character has permeated our society today evidenced by the daily examples of people failing to take responsibility for their own actions. Perfect examples, the socialist democRAT party and their accomplices in the fake press.
Same thing with the admiral that was in command of Pearl Harbor. He wasn't given the relevant intelligence that could have had the base on a high level of alert to do what they could due to most of the anti aircraft weaponry being sent to the Philippines and other bases. He was relieved of command a few days after the attack.
My dad was at Scapa Flow when attack happened. He was Merchant Navy and only sixteen. He was on Warwick Castle, a troop ship, when it was torpedoed in 1942 returning from Operation Torch.
My dad wasn't a fan of the Merchant anything, I never did understand why I thought we're in this together but he was RA I'm sure his reasons were his though and I don't want to know why even though time has passed and he's gone.
I am British but I can't help but acknowledge the bravery and skill of Prien and his men. The story would make a great movie. Lastly RIP and respect to all those lost on the Royal Oak
coming from a RN family, my grandfather and uncle were KIA in ww2, its a fact of life that in wars the navy suffer some horrendous casualties in one day, if a major ship goes down. large crews and the sheer inhospility of the waters. jumping over the side in itself was hazardous - men wearing lifejackets were apt to break their neck if they didn't know the drill .. head down, knees up ... and the chill factor in sea is frightening. 5 minutes in the water and you're prob a goner.. the North Sea is highly dangerous at any time of year.
I saw a documentary on oil rigs in the north Atlantic. It mentioned that the waters are so cold that the 'average' person could become hypothermic in just 6 minutes. They also mentioned that high body fat made a dramatic difference (lasting 3X+ longer). Swimmers attempting to cross the English channel sometimes lather their body with a vasoline gell which acts as an insulator.
@@harleylawdude It would be interesting to understand the relationship between becoming hypothermic (instinctive, uncontrolled shivering) and loss of consciousness. The amount of time between loss of consciousness and death is greater than I assumed. Another item mentioned in the documentary I saw was optimal methods for HOW to raise the body temperature of someone who was hypothermic. They said that merely placing someone in a warm bath could be detrimental because the veins and arteries would open up, allowing a lot of very cold blood to enter the body, even to the point of further dropping core body temperature. The optimal solution was to heat the air they breathe and if they're conscious, have them drink warm fluids. These methods directly heated the core body temperature.
I served in the U.S. Navy in a very peaceful time in our history, so I never thought about those things too much. But the guys always told stories about how ship sinking would pull you under. I figure I was a goner either way. I served in the reactor plants, so it's not likely I would ever get out regardless. I see the Royal Navy like brothers to us, and our Navy would not be what it is without that template set by the RN.
Another well done episode. The loss of HMS Royal Oak, while at the time was a very prominent event, it's sinking by and large became lost in history as the war and its subsequent horrors grew. The loss of so many boys deeply affected the British people, they were presumed to be safe on a huge battleship. The saddest fact is that WWII would see the deaths of innumerable children. It is good that you have taken time to remember those boys and men. In this season of peace and goodwill, I offer my sincerest best wishes to mrs History guy, the History guy felines and you.
While I agree the loss of the boys is tragic as are all such deaths in war, I'm not sure why anyone would consider children to be safe on a warship during a war.
@@kevind814 the British Royal Navy had a long tradition of boys going to sea. Some were destined to become midshipmen then officers. Others were more or less apprenticed, learning the skills necessary to work aboard a ship. They tended to be placed on the largest warships, first because they could carry more people, and second because the Admiralty considered them to be somewhat safer aboard the large warships. This tradition continued all the way up to the 1940s, as a career in the Royal Navy or merchant ships was a very technical trade that took years to gain proficiency, and was also considered good work. At least until the shooting and torpedoing starts.
Dad was 15 in 39 when he joined the Navy, He never ended up on the Oak some of his friends did, Dad was put on the castle class ship and was running up and down the English Channel mine sweeping. One good thing about this attack, it made changes in the enlisting age and where they could be station, But those 15-year-olds who were already on ships, were told to stay where they were
south your dad was a courageous young lad. He has my sincerest respect. I knew that the army had boys , usually drummers and buglers or stewards. I remember hearing they were called son's of the regiment. Meaning, they were often the sons of serving members of a regiment I guess. And I know that not only in Britain but here in the USA, boys lied about their ages to sign up and fight. I watched a very good movie about the Regiment formed by King George V and Queen Mary , made up of young men who worked on their estates at Sandringham. The regiment was lost, except for one young man, at Gallipoli. The regiment was las seen advancing into a great fog bank. In that movie one of the young men's younger brother even went along. Not sure how accurate the movie is, but I enjoyed it.
I learnt of this whist on a scuba diving holiday at Scala flow. An increasable bit of navigation and nerve by U47. Whilst there I visited the war graves at the cemetery on Hoy. By the remembrance book at the entrance, a large wreathe paying tribute and honouring the fallen seamen of the Royal Oak. A purple banner across it proclaimed in gold letters who had left the tribute, the U47 sailors association. Such respect.
I don't remember his last name. But his fist name was Hans. At 13 or 15 he was a Belgium farmer when the Germans stornmed through in ww1. His village was wiped out and became a battle front. He fought the war in the trenches . After the war he went back to farming and married and had children . Again in ww2 the Germans came through and flatten the village . This time he got to gge coast and I belive was evacuated at Dunkirk. He didn't want to go back to ghe trenches so he signed onto a ship . By the end if the war he had been on 7 ships that had been sunk . Signing onto who ever pulled him out . The last ship was an America navel ship and he joined the American navy . Put in 20 years, became a citizen retired and went to sea as a merchant marine . He married a woman from New Jersey and had a few kids. At some point he was falling apart his wife had died and he retired . I met him in irvington new jersey a burrow of Newark. He told me his stories as I worked on an agecent apartment . He was around 80 . I'm sure there is an obituary in the Newark star Leger news paper . I met him in 1988 .
@@walterdavis4808 I hope you can find it in a box some day. Publish the stories if possible. So much history gets lost as we lose each generation and all we are left with is the propaganda of whom ever is the victor. Real personal experiences are our best measure of our real history. Merry Christmas to your and your family
Watching this as I'm looking out my bedroom window over Scapa Flow, it's a beautiful place with so much history! If you ever make it up here to the edge of the world History Guy the Orcadian ale's one me! Also another fascinating story that came out of Orkney is the history of the Italian Chapel, built by Italian POWs who built the Churchill barriers. It's made out of an old bomb shelter with a chandelier constructed out of old cans and it even has a fresco painted by one of the Italians, he even stayed after the war to finish it and kept coming back to Orkney for many years until his passing. It's certainly history that deserves to be remembered!
As a former Royal Navy veteran - I really appreciate your videos on RN history . Thank you Sir, I salute you on behalf of fallen fellow servicemen of all our armed forces -especially the Royal Navy!
One of the more interesting facts is that in 1917 HMS Vanguard blew up in Scapa Flow, one of its crew, a Midshipman, Reginald Frederick Nicholls was a part of its crew, 22 years later he was the Executive Officer aboard HMS Royal Oak, which was sunk only a few hundred yards from where HMS Vanguard lies. The fact that HMS Royal Oak was (along with all the Revenge class Battleships), deemed obsolete by the start of WW2, it was a tragic loss of life that was really only figured out several days later when they discovered the torpedo damage. Even now, HMS Royal Oak still spills a little of her oil into the sea.
I just want to say you are wonderful historian. I am a military antiques dealer but I donate items to museums and schools because I like you believe history should be remembered and taught. I even buy military medals and donate them to veterans who have lost theirs or help them with paperwork so the government to reissue them.
First, let me say that I enjoy most of your efforts very much. You often bring light to the stories of history which would otherwise be largely permanently forgotten. I am a supporting member of your channel. Secondly, let me also applaud you for your new sponsorship arrangement with Audible. I am in my 70s now and was formerly a career military officer who loves history. However, as I have aged my eyesight has weakened which makes reading much more tiring. Audible has been a savior. An Audible member for over 10 years, I have over 300 Audible books in my cloud library...history, politics, mysteries, spy novels, etc. You can't beat it. May I suggest you now open each of your well-researched and presented episodes with an Audible book recommendation related to your topic. Meanwhile, keep up the good work. History is a topic lost to most young Americans and to many older ones as well...
The Churchill barriers have made Orkney much bigger than it must have felt before the war. They are probably worth an episode along with the Italians who built them and the Italian Chapel that they built and is still there.
The Italian Chapel is extraordinary. It's really a Nissen Hut -- in effect a huge corrugated-iron cylinder cut in half longitudinally -- but with masonry facings that make it look like a small church. But it's the interior that is really amazing: almost Roccoco in its extravagance, and all painted and decorated by the Italian POWs with whatever they could scavenge. It's quite beautiful. A small work of art and a testament to the devotion of the prisoners who built it.
I'm about to head to my first job this morning, but before I watch I just want to say, I play a mission named "Attack on Scapa Flow" in a game called U-boat. So I'm really excited lol
Many years ago there was a documentary on the sinking of the Royal Oak and many survivors were interviewed. One of the underlying problems with the ship was that it appeared not to be a "happy ship" and there were undercurrents in terms of its cohesive operation and this may have had a bearing on the events that ensued after the ship was torpedoed as the crew might not have been as tuned to the events as they might have been on another ship with a well drilled crew. .
Goddamn, if TORPEDOES, EXPLOSIONS and THE THREAT OF IMMINENT DEATH aren’t enough to rally a crew, it must have been bad. “Tell the crew of Engine Room Two to evacuate? Nah, they’re a bunch of cunts.” Sorry, can’t see this happening
I remember that documentary. A Royal Marine who had been in charge of fitness training onboard, stated that the morale of the crew was bad, and that "the officers treated the crew like scum, from the top down". So not a happy ship is a bit of an understatement I think. Discipline on the bigger ships was mostly very strict I think, as my father (a royal Marine) once told me after he had talked with some fellow Marines off a battleship when in port (he didn't remember which one it was) He also remember them saying that when the guns opened fire (the 15" main guns) the noise was terriffic and the rivets below deck went everywhere, popped out by the shock wave going through the hull plates.
@@sirmalus5153 I replied to the earlier comment and it has vanished- very odd. I mentioned that Royal Oak had only been recommissioned a few months earlier and needed plenty of training which was being undertaken and then war broke out. I also mentioned the survivors from Repulse talking about their view that Repulse was the finest ship in the Navy, they were proud to serve on her and admired the captain and her crew was fully worked up and cohesive and they were all long-serving mariners with commitment. They went on to say that this was not the case on Prince of Wales and felt that that ship performed sub-optimally because of various crew issues often found on a new ship but unlike Repulse which was old, PoW being new and should have performed far better but its "shellacking" from Bismarck was more to do with a lack of training and they felt let down by its later performance off Malaya when both ships went down. Repulse put up a hell of a performance it seems . All very sad -but at least many survived.
In interviews, several former sailors said that Scapa Flow was a horrible place to be. There was nothing to do on shore. It was remote and nothing to do in the "town" on shore. Sailors hated it.
Greetings from No. VT - I would second Scott Watson's comment about the value of a future episode about the contributions of the Italian prisoners of war at Scapa Flow. A friend's father, who was a world class stone carver here in Vermont after the war, was one of the artisans who built the Italia Chapel as well as other structures in the area when he was a prisoner. The artistic efforts of the prisoners is awesome
I remember reading about that attack at Scapa Flow. The whole idea was just borderline crazy, since the chances of success was not exactly high, either.
My grandfather was the captain of the first civilian rescue boat on scene that night, some of the survivors he rescued were mentioned in the first official announcement of the sinking. The BBC Home Service reported late that morning an announcement by the Secretary of the Admiralty: 'It is with regret that I have to announce that the battleship HMS Royal Oak has been sunk, it is believed by U‐boat action; fifteen survivors have been landed'." He was awarded an MBE from the Queen, for his rescue efforts that night.
I like your nuclear fallout shelter sign. Gunther Prein died a horrible death, being depth charged, and then the sub leaked & took on water slowly until it reached crush depth. Horrible way to go.
@@boarzwid1002 Official records agree that he was trailing the convoy in question, what no one is sure about, is which destroyer dealt the death blow. I never heard of any account of a red glow or explosion. I did read of u-47 being apparently damaged and could not escape because of the cyclical rattling sound the sub was thence giving away, it didn't take long for them to zero in on his exact location after that. What an experience it must've been for all parties involved. There will be naval warfare sometime again, but it won't be quite like the wolfpacks of the North Atlantic in 1940.
I always thought it would be horrible to be trapped underwater in a submarine, slowly suffocating to death while too deep to escape from the trapped vessel. I would hope for the u-boat crew to get a rapid death from an implosion via a depth charge, or sink so deeply so rapidly that she imploded and the crew didn’t suffer a long, lingering death. I could never be a submariner, but certainly respect those that can and did. Very brave men, indeed.
You might consider doing another episode on a similar attack, this time by the U.S. submarine Wahoo which, under the command of Dudley W “Mush” Morton on the Japanese harbor of Wewak Island in the Pacific. An excellent telling of this story is recounted in War Fish, written by George W. Grider and Lydel Sims. Grider was a junior officer on board the Wahoo at the time. Like Prien, Morton was lost with his boat as a result of what appears to be a bombing of the Wahoo as it attempted a transit of the Bungo Channel.
I've heard somethings about this story, but not much that I can remember. I agree, it definitely is a fascinating story that I would like to hear/know more about. Very underacknowledged event.
Imo , submariners are the gutsiest men of war on both sides . Salute to my dad Chief Petty officer ( ret) Ken Vining who served on submarines of the U S N for twenty years...SSN Archerfish , Amberjack , Theodore Roosevelt , deisels and nucs , and others I can't recall. He served when Scorpion and Thresher were lost ....sad and scary times. We hated to see the gold crew ship out on whatever boat Dad was on for the next 3 months , and I am sure he hated to leave his family. It takes a different kind of man to pull that duty. Brave men all , from the CSA Hunley to the K-141 Kursk ...
Churchill was never one to (privately) deny a particularly courageous enemy action. Having been the First Sea Lord and thus experienced in naval matters, he called Prien's attack "a remarkable feat of professional skill and daring". Churchill was also quite relieved at their luck, in that a man as bold as Prien had multiple dud torpedoes (even in the most undemanding conditions) and only managed to find a single WW1-vintage superdreadnought to assassinate before wisely making his retreat: the only thing that justified the atrocious risk in the first place was the hope of finding the entire active fleet asleep - but they were out on maneuvers, saved by chance.
German air reconnaissance had detected Repulse anchored near to Royal Oak, but between the last observation and Prien's attack, she had been moved to Rosyth.
Had not ever known of this attack before; another bit of history to now be remembered. Thanks "The History Guy." It is unfortunate, and understandable, if not completely "fair," that the admiral at Scapa Flow, at the time, suffered, basically, the same fate as the admiral at Pearl Harbor when a surprise attack ended his career as well.
Excellent episode, I have been reading more about the Royal Oak and how important that attack was for Germany. It is interesting that still in 1939, they had boy sailors. That was a complete tragedy, glad to hear they pulled those young men off the front lines until they became old enough.
Me grand father was a Captain in the Merchant Marine in the Great War. He was attacked many times by U-Boats. Later he had many a submariner in his crews. "Grand paw Denny" Never held a grudge to these men; just the opposite, he thought they were damn fine seamen and made this comment: "No way in hell would I have served in the under seas service of Any nation."
That Padfield book is partly what drove me to base my dissertation on submarine warfare :D Always takes me back whenever I see it get mentioned (and any Padfield work in general).
I like the long histories. I’m my library I have many over 50hrs. I wish I could share all the history titles I have but two of my favorites but also the most heartbreaking are two by William L. Shirer. “The collapse of the third republic” and “the rise and fall of the third Reich”. All I can say is history continues to repeat itself because men’s hearts have not changed.
This was hardly forgotten history, it was a very notable raid in WW 2. What always impressed me is that the battleship was first hit by the first torpedo salvo but ignored it
This disaster could have easily averted and lives saved. The first torpedoes were duds. The cadets heard the torpedo thuds. The officers didn't do their job and keep a lookout. A very terrible tragedy.
I have been present at the ceremony onboard HMS _Echo_ and it was moving with all hands mustered aft, dress uniforms worn and pipes played as the last post was done by a bootie brought along for the occasion.
Could you please do a story on the Photographers trained at Indian Town Gap for the Army in WW2 and how they were the ones who shot every picture and film reel for the Battle of the Bulge? I believe the Master Sgt in charge of the training was Harold R Norman a photographer for the Chicago Tribune. Harold R Norman went on to battle for the Freedom of the Press in a 1959 case in the supreme court over an incident at the Arora Courthouse. It is History Worth Remembering!
Once again, you and your team have made an exceptional video. I realize that you are under time constraints, but the following were some things not mentioned. Three out of four block ships that were sailing to Scapa Flow were sunk en route. Robert Tullock was never penalized for driving with his taxi's lights on during the two month old black out. His lights illuminated the passage just as U 47 attempted to enter Scapa Flow. Although German photography was advanced for its time, Admiral Doentz, at a glance, quickly overruled his staff, who advocated a different route into Scapa Flow. From my recreational experience, I know that the depth of channels are difficult to know visually without taking sounding, sonar or a point of reference Admiral French's report would have mentioned Kirik Sound's depth at different tides. Admiral French's report could have crossed the desk of the traitor king, who was an Admiral of the Fleet.
Mush Morton did similar feats in the Pacific, since the Japanese never developed night surface radar in any meaningful quantities. If you were brave enough to run around on the surface at night, you could have crazy success... those guys would run INSIDE the convoys, blacked out on the surface.
Many do not know this most important History. And in context of the it's significance to the arms race that occurred continuously through World War Two and the developments that transpired between WW1 and WW2. Thank you History Guy.
HMS Royal Oak was the one of the 5 Royal Navy battleships/Battlecruisers effectively sunk in the conflict. The other 4 were HMS Barham, HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Hood and HMS Repulse. And they were all sunk before 1942... Yes Royal Oak sinking didn't change the force balance, but without the entrance of USA, UK couldn't have taken the combined force of German, Italian and Japanese Navy, moreon since HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant were damaged severely in famous Alexandria Raid, and by January 1942 Germany had 2 Battleships (considering Scharnhorst BB), Italy had 5 (not counting the damaged Cavour) and Japan had 9/10 (Musashi was on sea trials). Despite RN having quite a few CVs and a lot of cruisers and DDs, the numbers without USA's aid didn't favor them
The surface fleet of the German Kriegsmarin was effectively taken out by the British by 1942. The Italian fleet was effectively taken out by the Royal Navy in the battle of Matapan. There was no major US involvement. There is no question of taking on the "combined" force of the German and Italian navies, they were taken on and defeated separately by the Royal Navy. The Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk by Japanese land based bombers. There were no major naval engagements between the British and Japanese, though the last Japanese ship to be sunk in WW2, the IJN Haguro, was sunk by a British destroyer.
Brilliant video, as always. Would definitely welcome more WWI naval content, as I am always on the look-out for good video resources for my classroom teaching.
I've been with Audible since 2006; a suggestion from a co-worker. Take the History Guy's advice here, it's a game changer. I take the 12 unit/yr subscription. As for undersea warfare I suggest: The War Below, James Scott. It concentrates on the US pacific effort against Japan. Oh, and that other enemy, the Mk 13 torpedo, but I'll leave that to you listening to the book.
A very good video, as usual THG. Like USS Arizona, HMS Royal Oak leaked oil for many years, and because of the impact on wildlife much of it was pumped out of the ship between 2003 and 2010. There remains about 600 tonnes on board. By the way, at 11:29 I think you mean the ship's pinnace, rather than pinnacle. Once again, thanks for a superb video.
Until I started reading more on the European theater of WW2, I had only seen Scapa Flow as the name of a Thoroughbred broodmare. She contributed to the blood of several horses that are notable. However, I am amazed at the tenacity of the German navy that lost so many there. And then to have it turned on it's head and the British to lose so many. Wow.
this attack was carried out using the G7e electrical topedio, thus silent and invisible, the perplexed British determined the reason why the U-boat could strike repeatedly without being detected only after recovering the G7e topedios left behind in the Scapa Flow
In London Cockney rhyming slang, Scapa flow means to Go. As in “ I’m gonna scapa now” (although usually spelt phonetically as Scarper as the A is a long one.) Royal Navy personnel posted to Scapa would be gone for quite some time.
Fascinating and informative. Interesting to catch mention of American journalist, war correspondent, and author, John Gunther. Some may remember the memoir he penned about his son, John (Johnny) Gunther, Jr. in "Death Be Not Proud", once required reading in high school English classes across the country. I have no idea if that is still the case. Cheers.
AS ALWAYS THE HISTORY GUY, AN EXCELLENT VIDEO!! Didn't know about the "boy sailors" that were aboard the ROYAL OAK. That Royal Navy tradition of having young boys on warships as officer candidates ended after this diaster. I seem to remember a story about a U-Boat attack on a Royal Navy anchorage on the last day World War II. Not sure if it was Scapa Flow or the Firth of Forth.🤔🤔🤔⚓⚓⚓🚢🚢🚢✌✌✌✌
I have been told the exact opposite from other retired submariners- they disagree on the subject. But I did use the pronunciation that was used in the Audible narration.
Hi Lance, just wanted to correct a very slight landsman's error in your excellent presentation. What you referred to as the Royal Oak's 'pinnacle' is actually the pinnace (pronounced pin-us, usually), a shallow-draft boat with an inboard motor, used to convey crew and supplies between ship and shore. It was stored aboard the ship when underway. I only know because I used to live on a 40ft ex-RN pinnace built in 1920. The Royal Oak's would probably have been the longer version, but otherwise similar.
A year or so back, a routine survey of the seabed in Scapa Flow unearthed one of the torpedoes that missed that night and, basically, ran out of steam. The Royal Navy disposed of it in a controlled explosion. Orkney can be a wild, desolate place but is steeped in history all the way back to the Neolithic . If you love history, it's well worth a visit.
It'd be very interesting to see you tackle the battle of Hong Kong in 1941. It's often little discussed or mentioned. Just a suggestion of course, anything you make is very well done, keep it up!
I have a 50 mile commute each way, two hours in the morning, one at night. Audible turns it into fun educational time. I enjoy biographies, history, current events, etc. Just about finished with Brad Smith and Carol Anne Browne's "Tools and Weapons, The Promise and Peril of the digital age." A great read... er... listen.
I was just about to mention that. Watched one of Drach's videos today where he mentioned it. The uncle in question opted for a 'safer' position as a stoker on a battle ship as opposed to his 'crazy' brothers, one of whom was a tail gunner, and the other went tearing across the desert. Both those brothers ended up surviving the war.
The great American model company Revell - which I think I now German - made a kit of the U-47. It was a cut away model and you could see the interior of the boat. There was a large historical section about the attack in the instructions. I should have posted the nerd alert first. Sorry guys.
The Churchill barriers were mainly built by Polish POWs and there is a wonderful chapel they built for themselves on the island from two converted Nissan huts.
I believe I have a unique tie to Scapa Flow, although never having visited it. My grandfather earned his Iron Cross for helping scuttle his ship in 1919 when the German fleet scuttled at Scapa Flow and we still have the jackstaff flag from his ship. My father earned his first Iron Cross as part of the Luftwaffe flight crew that took the reconnaissance photos showing the potential entry into Scapa Flow. He was a radioman on the plane at the time and eventually became a Ju-88 and Ju-188 reconnaissance pilot and a squadron commander, earning multiple medals for his work, but also earning 3 months in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp after the attempted assassination of Hitler when one of his squadron mates reported him to the Gestapo for remarks he had made about Hitler (my father's family was not supportive of Hitler and had tried to get my father and his cousin to the U.S. prior to start of the war in September, 1939). He was offered two options after 3 months of interrogation and imprisonment. Option 1 was to be shot at dawn. Option 2 was to be returned to his squadron, but reduced in rank from Captain to highest NCO level, not be allowed to be pilot in command on any flights, and to fly night missions in Italy for the rest of the war (which was about 50% fatality rate at the time). He chose option 2, was shot down 3 times subsequently (we have photos of one shoot down aftermath), lost the tip of his left little finger due to a .30 caliber bullet coming through the cockpit glass, and kept his crew members alive. One thing he told us of that time was that although the plane had to take off with him in the co-pilot's seat, he and the pilot would switch seats immediately after becoming airborne as his crew knew he was the best pilot and would keep them alive. He was allowed to immigrate from Germany in 1952, along with his sister and a Lutheran minister and they were among the first group of German emigres from Hamburg to the U.S. He ended up in Detroit where his uncle had a tool and die shop and by 1964 he and his partners had a shop with 200 employees and my father was the president of the Detroit tool and die association. He was also one of the first Detroit area tool and die shop owners to hire African-American employees as tool and die machinists and always told my brothers and I that it was the quality of work a man created, not what color his skin was. He never went back to Germany as he had many bad memories of the war and immediate post war period although he always enjoyed talking to other pilots from WW2. One of the more interesting events that occurred later in his life was when my brother graduated from U.S. Navy pilot training. One of the Navy traditions is that if your father was a military pilot, he could pin his wings on his son as part of the induction ceremony. You could have heard a pin drop in the room when my dad pinned his Luftwaffe reconnaissance pilot's wings on my brother's chest and afterwards every pilot in the room, both newly minted and veteran fathers, wanted to talk with him about his experiences. He passed away in 1988 and we have his logbook, medals, and many photos from his time in the war.
Wow thanks for sharing
Ditto, thanks for sharing. Personal stories like this deserve to be remembered; my great granddad served in ww1, one of my grandads in 2, but they both died when I was very young, and I never thought to ask. By the time I felt stories like this were important there was no one compos mentis enough to ask: I'll always regret that.
double ditto, fantastic reading about his experiences, thank you
German settlers in America during the 1800’s were staunchly anti slavery and anti monarchy, and were more fervent in their support of democracy and equality than many of the English settlers.
Thank you…there are so many interesting stories out there that need to be heard.
I've seen the wreck of the Oak a few times, however the most poignant was in October 2010 from a small boat owned by my great uncle. It was a flat calm day and he positioned the boat over the wreck and told all of us to look over the side. It took a few seconds to make things out, but there she was, clear as day, there was her bilge keel pointing up towards us, several holes in her side with the ribs poking through and further down, her secondary armaments were just visible. For about a minute we slowly drifted along her from a point roughly amidships towards her stern (the propellor shaft and rudder eventually coming in to view) before sailing off again. A remarkably and quite haunting experience.
Worthy of mention is the fact that my great uncle had lived in a house overlooking the wreck site his entire life and remembered going to bed one night with the Oak outside his window and waking up to nothing other than an oil slick the next morning. The boat was also worthy of mention, being a steam launch he had built himself out of scrap, the hull having started life as a German Navy pinnace from WWI, the engine being salvaged from a White steam car, the boiler being made from offcuts of pipe from the oil terminal on the island of Flotta and the condenser being made from salvaged parts of HMS Vanguard's condenser.
If he's still alive, the 2 of you could make a really interesting documentary. He probably has a more nuts and bolts knowledge of the history of the Flow than anyone.
My brother and I visited Scapa Flow in 2019, quite a moving experience. A bleak and inhospitable place with a superb guided history walk around the old naval base. During the wars, thousands of navy personnel were based here, a truly enormous base. Only fragmentary elements remain, but well worth seeing with a guide. And the Churchill barriers are highly evident, supporting roads between the various islands.
I was actually at Orkney staying in Kirkwall on the 100th anniversary of the scuttling of the High Seas fleet on 21 June, 2019. Fantastic trip and tour.
Orkneys hardly bleak and inhospitable... I've dived the sunken fleet and drank in the local pubs when a "tarring" was occurring... U must be American 😂😂
@@fghjjjk Not the Orkneys in general, they’re beautiful. But the Flow itself seemed bleak and inhospitable in the cold, driving rain that was falling when we visited. And my reference is Dorset, which is where I live.
Some extra exposition about U-47 on this episode:
1. Ka-Leu Prien was called the “Bull of Scapa Flow” (as mentioned in the video). On their return to Germany, U-47’s crew painted a snorting bull on the conning tower to commemorate the feat. It would eventually become the symbol of the 7th Uboat flotilla.
1. U-47 did not immediately attack upon arrival at Scapa Flow. It waited outside the harbor for several days waiting for the ideal conditions to enter the harbor. It sat on the bottom during the day and surfaced at night to charge batteries.
3. U-47’s attack may have changed the course of WW2. Germany had only 39 uboats in September, 1939. The attack was meant as an attempt to get more funding for uboat production since German naval doctrine was still centered around surface units. What began as 39 uboats eventually exploded to 1,162 by the war’s end. It can be argued that had this attack failed, then Hitler might have given more funding to surface ships instead of the more effective uboats.
4. A torpedo that was found in Scapa Flow in 2016 is believed to be one of U-47’s missed torpedoes.
5. The failure of the first 2 attacks is most likely due to poorly designed torpedoes. Gunther Prien and many other uboat commanders (and the Americans years later) complained of defective torpedoes. U-47 attacked another British battleship, HMS Warspite, during the invasion of Norway. The torpedoes were so awful that Prien refused to fire another torpedo at a convoy later that day. He would declare to Admiral Doenitz that he might as well have been fighting with “wooden rifles.”
that's crappy that the Admiral who asked for better defenses ended up being the scapegoat
Always, sir. Always.
The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down.
Very good point. That is how the upper crust of the Military handles all tragedies. They take no responsibility for their lack of planning and action by punishing lower-ranking subordinates because someone must be held responsible. A perfect example was the unfair treatment that General Short and Admiral Kimmel received after the Attack on Pearl Harbor. The lack of character has permeated our society today evidenced by the daily examples of people failing to take responsibility for their own actions. Perfect examples, the socialist democRAT party and their accomplices in the fake press.
@@drats1279 always
Same thing with the admiral that was in command of Pearl Harbor. He wasn't given the relevant intelligence that could have had the base on a high level of alert to do what they could due to most of the anti aircraft weaponry being sent to the Philippines and other bases. He was relieved of command a few days after the attack.
My dad was at Scapa Flow when attack happened. He was Merchant Navy and only sixteen. He was on Warwick Castle, a troop ship, when it was torpedoed in 1942 returning from Operation Torch.
My dad wasn't a fan of the Merchant anything, I never did understand why I thought we're in this together but he was RA I'm sure his reasons were his though and I don't want to know why even though time has passed and he's gone.
4:35 The Trawler attacking and capturing a U-Boat has got to be the most impressive act of fishing of all time. They truly caught “the Big One”.
Agreed
I am British but I can't help but acknowledge the bravery and skill of Prien and his men. The story would make a great movie. Lastly RIP and respect to all those lost on the Royal Oak
Exactly why " brother wars" have to stop ...
coming from a RN family, my grandfather and uncle were KIA in ww2, its a fact of life that in wars the navy suffer some horrendous casualties in one day, if a major ship goes down. large crews and the sheer inhospility of the waters. jumping over the side in itself was hazardous - men wearing lifejackets were apt to break their neck if they didn't know the drill .. head down, knees up ... and the chill factor in sea is frightening. 5 minutes in the water and you're prob a goner.. the North Sea is highly dangerous at any time of year.
I saw a documentary on oil rigs in the north Atlantic. It mentioned that the waters are so cold that the 'average' person could become hypothermic in just 6 minutes. They also mentioned that high body fat made a dramatic difference (lasting 3X+ longer). Swimmers attempting to cross the English channel sometimes lather their body with a vasoline gell which acts as an insulator.
I’ve heard a human in freezing water has 20 mins of consciousness and 45 min to live.
@@harleylawdude It would be interesting to understand the relationship between becoming hypothermic (instinctive, uncontrolled shivering) and loss of consciousness. The amount of time between loss of consciousness and death is greater than I assumed.
Another item mentioned in the documentary I saw was optimal methods for HOW to raise the body temperature of someone who was hypothermic. They said that merely placing someone in a warm bath could be detrimental because the veins and arteries would open up, allowing a lot of very cold blood to enter the body, even to the point of further dropping core body temperature.
The optimal solution was to heat the air they breathe and if they're conscious, have them drink warm fluids. These methods directly heated the core body temperature.
I served in the U.S. Navy in a very peaceful time in our history, so I never thought about those things too much. But the guys always told stories about how ship sinking would pull you under. I figure I was a goner either way. I served in the reactor plants, so it's not likely I would ever get out regardless. I see the Royal Navy like brothers to us, and our Navy would not be what it is without that template set by the RN.
Another well done episode.
The loss of HMS Royal Oak, while at the time was a very prominent event, it's sinking by and large became lost in history as the war and its subsequent horrors grew.
The loss of so many boys deeply affected the British people, they were presumed to be safe on a huge battleship. The saddest fact is that WWII would see the deaths of innumerable children.
It is good that you have taken time to remember those boys and men.
In this season of peace and goodwill, I offer my sincerest best wishes to mrs History guy, the History guy felines and you.
While I agree the loss of the boys is tragic as are all such deaths in war, I'm not sure why anyone would consider children to be safe on a warship during a war.
@@kevind814 the British Royal Navy had a long tradition of boys going to sea. Some were destined to become midshipmen then officers. Others were more or less apprenticed, learning the skills necessary to work aboard a ship. They tended to be placed on the largest warships, first because they could carry more people, and second because the Admiralty considered them to be somewhat safer aboard the large warships.
This tradition continued all the way up to the 1940s, as a career in the Royal Navy or merchant ships was a very technical trade that took years to gain proficiency, and was also considered good work. At least until the shooting and torpedoing starts.
Dad was 15 in 39 when he joined the Navy, He never ended up on the Oak some of his friends did, Dad was put on the castle class ship and was running up and down the English Channel mine sweeping. One good thing about this attack, it made changes in the enlisting age and where they could be station, But those 15-year-olds who were already on ships, were told to stay where they were
@@briannicholas2757 Even the Air force and Army had 15 years olds
south your dad was a courageous young lad. He has my sincerest respect.
I knew that the army had boys , usually drummers and buglers or stewards. I remember hearing they were called son's of the regiment. Meaning, they were often the sons of serving members of a regiment I guess. And I know that not only in Britain but here in the USA, boys lied about their ages to sign up and fight.
I watched a very good movie about the Regiment formed by King George V and Queen Mary , made up of young men who worked on their estates at Sandringham. The regiment was lost, except for one young man, at Gallipoli. The regiment was las seen advancing into a great fog bank. In that movie one of the young men's younger brother even went along. Not sure how accurate the movie is, but I enjoyed it.
I learnt of this whist on a scuba diving holiday at Scala flow. An increasable bit of navigation and nerve by U47. Whilst there I visited the war graves at the cemetery on Hoy. By the remembrance book at the entrance, a large wreathe paying tribute and honouring the fallen seamen of the Royal Oak. A purple banner across it proclaimed in gold letters who had left the tribute, the U47 sailors association. Such respect.
I don't remember his last name. But his fist name was Hans. At 13 or 15 he was a Belgium farmer when the Germans stornmed through in ww1. His village was wiped out and became a battle front. He fought the war in the trenches . After the war he went back to farming and married and had children . Again in ww2 the Germans came through and flatten the village . This time he got to gge coast and I belive was evacuated at Dunkirk. He didn't want to go back to ghe trenches so he signed onto a ship . By the end if the war he had been on 7 ships that had been sunk . Signing onto who ever pulled him out . The last ship was an America navel ship and he joined the American navy . Put in 20 years, became a citizen retired and went to sea as a merchant marine . He married a woman from New Jersey and had a few kids. At some point he was falling apart his wife had died and he retired . I met him in irvington new jersey a burrow of Newark. He told me his stories as I worked on an agecent apartment . He was around 80 . I'm sure there is an obituary in the Newark star Leger news paper . I met him in 1988 .
Wow wish you had more information!!! The story sounds fantastic and is history that should be remembered!
@@bucknaykid5821 I used to have a note book with names and stories of the people i met. But somewhere in a move it got lost
@@walterdavis4808 I hope you can find it in a box some day. Publish the stories if possible. So much history gets lost as we lose each generation and all we are left with is the propaganda of whom ever is the victor. Real personal experiences are our best measure of our real history. Merry Christmas to your and your family
@@bucknaykid5821 thank you and merry Christmas to you and yours too
Watching this as I'm looking out my bedroom window over Scapa Flow, it's a beautiful place with so much history! If you ever make it up here to the edge of the world History Guy the Orcadian ale's one me!
Also another fascinating story that came out of Orkney is the history of the Italian Chapel, built by Italian POWs who built the Churchill barriers. It's made out of an old bomb shelter with a chandelier constructed out of old cans and it even has a fresco painted by one of the Italians, he even stayed after the war to finish it and kept coming back to Orkney for many years until his passing. It's certainly history that deserves to be remembered!
As a former Royal Navy veteran - I really appreciate your videos on RN history . Thank you Sir, I salute you on behalf of fallen fellow servicemen of all our armed forces -especially the Royal Navy!
One of the more interesting facts is that in 1917 HMS Vanguard blew up in Scapa Flow, one of its crew, a Midshipman, Reginald Frederick Nicholls was a part of its crew, 22 years later he was the Executive Officer aboard HMS Royal Oak, which was sunk only a few hundred yards from where HMS Vanguard lies.
The fact that HMS Royal Oak was (along with all the Revenge class Battleships), deemed obsolete by the start of WW2, it was a tragic loss of life that was really only figured out several days later when they discovered the torpedo damage.
Even now, HMS Royal Oak still spills a little of her oil into the sea.
Very cool extra information!!!! Thanks for sharing it!
I just want to say you are wonderful historian. I am a military antiques dealer but I donate items to museums and schools because I like you believe history should be remembered and taught. I even buy military medals and donate them to veterans who have lost theirs or help them with paperwork so the government to reissue them.
Never knew about the "boy seamen". Heartbreaking.
First, let me say that I enjoy most of your efforts very much. You often bring light to the stories of history which would otherwise be largely permanently forgotten. I am a supporting member of your channel. Secondly, let me also applaud you for your new sponsorship arrangement with Audible. I am in my 70s now and was formerly a career military officer who loves history. However, as I have aged my eyesight has weakened which makes reading much more tiring. Audible has been a savior. An Audible member for over 10 years, I have over 300 Audible books in my cloud library...history, politics, mysteries, spy novels, etc. You can't beat it. May I suggest you now open each of your well-researched and presented episodes with an Audible book recommendation related to your topic. Meanwhile, keep up the good work. History is a topic lost to most young Americans and to many older ones as well...
That slow pan in that twisted along an axis as you described the ship beginning to take water.... *chef's kiss*
Thank you for the heart felt and well-told story of the early war in 1939.
The Churchill barriers have made Orkney much bigger than it must have felt before the war. They are probably worth an episode along with the Italians who built them and the Italian Chapel that they built and is still there.
The Italian Chapel is extraordinary. It's really a Nissen Hut -- in effect a huge corrugated-iron cylinder cut in half longitudinally -- but with masonry facings that make it look like a small church.
But it's the interior that is really amazing: almost Roccoco in its extravagance, and all painted and decorated by the Italian POWs with whatever they could scavenge.
It's quite beautiful. A small work of art and a testament to the devotion of the prisoners who built it.
This could be a good prompt for a Tom Scott episode.
I'm about to head to my first job this morning, but before I watch I just want to say, I play a mission named "Attack on Scapa Flow" in a game called U-boat. So I'm really excited lol
Thank you for remembering them for us! They deserve to not be forgotten.
That was a good one, as most indeed are. Touching statement at the end with the white ensign.
Many years ago there was a documentary on the sinking of the Royal Oak and many survivors were interviewed. One of the underlying problems with the ship was that it appeared not to be a "happy ship" and there were undercurrents in terms of its cohesive operation and this may have had a bearing on the events that ensued after the ship was torpedoed as the crew might not have been as tuned to the events as they might have been on another ship with a well drilled crew. .
Goddamn, if TORPEDOES, EXPLOSIONS and THE THREAT OF IMMINENT DEATH aren’t enough to rally a crew, it must have been bad. “Tell the crew of Engine Room Two to evacuate? Nah, they’re a bunch of cunts.” Sorry, can’t see this happening
I remember that documentary. A Royal Marine who had been in charge of fitness training onboard, stated that the morale of the crew was bad, and that "the officers treated the crew like scum, from the top down". So not a happy ship is a bit of an understatement I think.
Discipline on the bigger ships was mostly very strict I think, as my father (a royal Marine) once told me after he had talked with some fellow Marines off a battleship when in port (he didn't remember which one it was) He also remember them saying that when the guns opened fire (the 15" main guns) the noise was terriffic and the rivets below deck went everywhere, popped out by the shock wave going through the hull plates.
@@sirmalus5153 I replied to the earlier comment and it has vanished- very odd. I mentioned that Royal Oak had only been recommissioned a few months earlier and needed plenty of training which was being undertaken and then war broke out. I also mentioned the survivors from Repulse talking about their view that Repulse was the finest ship in the Navy, they were proud to serve on her and admired the captain and her crew was fully worked up and cohesive and they were all long-serving mariners with commitment. They went on to say that this was not the case on Prince of Wales and felt that that ship performed sub-optimally because of various crew issues often found on a new ship but unlike Repulse which was old, PoW being new and should have performed far better but its "shellacking" from Bismarck was more to do with a lack of training and they felt let down by its later performance off Malaya when both ships went down. Repulse put up a hell of a performance it seems . All very sad -but at least many survived.
Good Morning THG. We're all assembled, let's go!
As always I find your videos very informative and entertaining. Thank you for all you do.
In interviews, several former sailors said that Scapa Flow was a horrible place to be. There was nothing to do on shore. It was remote and nothing to do in the "town" on shore. Sailors hated it.
Greetings from No. VT - I would second Scott Watson's comment about the value of a future episode about the contributions of the Italian prisoners of war at Scapa Flow. A friend's father, who was a world class stone carver here in Vermont after the war, was one of the artisans who built the Italia Chapel as well as other structures in the area when he was a prisoner. The artistic efforts of the prisoners is awesome
Good episode on a small battle with such a larger effect on the war.
I remember reading about that attack at Scapa Flow. The whole idea was just borderline crazy, since the chances of success was not exactly high, either.
My grandfather was the captain of the first civilian rescue boat on scene that night, some of the survivors he rescued were mentioned in the first official announcement of the sinking.
The BBC Home Service reported late that morning an announcement by the Secretary of the Admiralty: 'It is with regret that I have to announce that the battleship HMS Royal Oak has been sunk, it is believed by U‐boat action; fifteen survivors have been landed'."
He was awarded an MBE from the Queen, for his rescue efforts that night.
I like your nuclear fallout shelter sign. Gunther Prein died a horrible death, being depth charged, and then the sub leaked & took on water slowly until it reached crush depth. Horrible way to go.
Almost as bad as a gas chamber....
I always thought that his sub just disappeared and was never found???
@@boarzwid1002 Official records agree that he was trailing the convoy in question, what no one is sure about, is which destroyer dealt the death blow. I never heard of any account of a red glow or explosion. I did read of u-47 being apparently damaged and could not escape because of the cyclical rattling sound the sub was thence giving away, it didn't take long for them to zero in on his exact location after that. What an experience it must've been for all parties involved. There will be naval warfare sometime again, but it won't be quite like the wolfpacks of the North Atlantic in 1940.
I always thought it would be horrible to be trapped underwater in a submarine, slowly suffocating to death while too deep to escape from the trapped vessel. I would hope for the u-boat crew to get a rapid death from an implosion via a depth charge, or sink so deeply so rapidly that she imploded and the crew didn’t suffer a long, lingering death. I could never be a submariner, but certainly respect those that can and did. Very brave men, indeed.
Yes and the Royal Oak that went down the sailors were tapping inside, for days
You might consider doing another episode on a similar attack, this time by the U.S. submarine Wahoo which, under the command of Dudley W “Mush” Morton on the Japanese harbor of Wewak Island in the Pacific. An excellent telling of this story is recounted in War Fish, written by George W. Grider and Lydel Sims. Grider was a junior officer on board the Wahoo at the time. Like Prien, Morton was lost with his boat as a result of what appears to be a bombing of the Wahoo as it attempted a transit of the Bungo Channel.
I've heard somethings about this story, but not much that I can remember. I agree, it definitely is a fascinating story that I would like to hear/know more about. Very underacknowledged event.
Imo , submariners are the gutsiest men of war on both sides . Salute to my dad Chief Petty officer ( ret) Ken Vining who served on submarines of the U S N for twenty years...SSN Archerfish , Amberjack , Theodore Roosevelt , deisels and nucs , and others I can't recall. He served when Scorpion and Thresher were lost ....sad and scary times. We hated to see the gold crew ship out on whatever boat Dad was on for the next 3 months , and I am sure he hated to leave his family. It takes a different kind of man to pull that duty. Brave men all , from the CSA Hunley to the K-141 Kursk ...
Wake of the Wahoo by Forest Sterling is excellent telling of “Mush” Morton and his intrepid crew.
Wewak is a town on the Bismarck Sea side of PNG.
Churchill was never one to (privately) deny a particularly courageous enemy action. Having been the First Sea Lord and thus experienced in naval matters, he called Prien's attack "a remarkable feat of professional skill and daring". Churchill was also quite relieved at their luck, in that a man as bold as Prien had multiple dud torpedoes (even in the most undemanding conditions) and only managed to find a single WW1-vintage superdreadnought to assassinate before wisely making his retreat: the only thing that justified the atrocious risk in the first place was the hope of finding the entire active fleet asleep - but they were out on maneuvers, saved by chance.
German air reconnaissance had detected Repulse anchored near to Royal Oak, but between the last observation and Prien's attack, she had been moved to Rosyth.
Thank you for another great episode!
Good video Thanks !!!!
thanks
Had not ever known of this attack before; another bit of history to now be remembered. Thanks "The History Guy."
It is unfortunate, and understandable, if not completely "fair," that the admiral at Scapa Flow, at the time, suffered, basically, the same fate as the admiral at Pearl Harbor when a surprise attack ended his career as well.
Not sure who the British Admiral was, Admiral Husband E. Kimmel was the person in charge on December 7, 1941.
Excellent episode, I have been reading more about the Royal Oak and how important that attack was for Germany. It is interesting that still in 1939, they had boy sailors. That was a complete tragedy, glad to hear they pulled those young men off the front lines until they became old enough.
Me grand father was a Captain in the Merchant Marine in the Great War. He was attacked many times by U-Boats. Later he had many a submariner in his crews. "Grand paw Denny" Never held a grudge to these men; just the opposite, he thought they were damn fine seamen and made this comment: "No way in hell would I have served in the under seas service of Any nation."
Professional recognizing other professionals.
Just separated by ideology.
That Padfield book is partly what drove me to base my dissertation on submarine warfare :D Always takes me back whenever I see it get mentioned (and any Padfield work in general).
Great work!
And the Italian POW's who helped make the Churchill Barriers also built a beautiful little chapel there...
The chapel that the Italian POWs built is fascinating.
Merry Christmas THG 🎄🎄🎄
Just wanted to let you know that I am already an audible subscriber but I went ahead and got “War Beneath the Seas”. Thanks for the recommendation!
It is a long one, but well worth it.
I like the long histories. I’m my library I have many over 50hrs. I wish I could share all the history titles I have but two of my favorites but also the most heartbreaking are two by William L. Shirer. “The collapse of the third republic” and “the rise and fall of the third Reich”. All I can say is history continues to repeat itself because men’s hearts have not changed.
Happy holidays. HG
Yes. A submarine vs battleship.
Great video!. 2:54 is when it starts so you can skip the commercial.
Thanks again history guy I truly believe that history is our best way of not repeating mistakes as our government does so many times!
This was hardly forgotten history, it was a very notable raid in WW 2. What always impressed me is that the battleship was first hit by the first torpedo salvo but ignored it
Interesting. I believe my grandfather was on HMS Belfast in 1939.
This disaster could have easily averted and lives saved. The first torpedoes were duds. The cadets heard the torpedo thuds.
The officers didn't do their job and keep a lookout.
A very terrible tragedy.
I have been present at the ceremony onboard HMS _Echo_ and it was moving with all hands mustered aft, dress uniforms worn and pipes played as the last post was done by a bootie brought along for the occasion.
Could you please do a story on the Photographers trained at Indian Town Gap for the Army in WW2 and how they were the ones who shot every picture and film reel for the Battle of the Bulge? I believe the Master Sgt in charge of the training was Harold R Norman a photographer for the Chicago Tribune. Harold R Norman went on to battle for the Freedom of the Press in a 1959 case in the supreme court over an incident at the Arora Courthouse. It is History Worth Remembering!
Really like that idea
The German U-boat Captain had to have balls of steel to even think about attempting this, let alone carry it out.
Once again, you and your team have made an exceptional video. I realize that you are under time constraints, but the following were some things not mentioned. Three out of four block ships that were sailing to Scapa Flow were sunk en route. Robert Tullock was never penalized for driving with his taxi's lights on during the two month old black out. His lights illuminated the passage just as U 47 attempted to enter Scapa Flow. Although German photography was advanced for its time, Admiral Doentz, at a glance, quickly overruled his staff, who advocated a different route into Scapa Flow. From my recreational experience, I know that the depth of channels are difficult to know visually without taking sounding, sonar or a point of reference Admiral French's report would have mentioned Kirik Sound's depth at different tides. Admiral French's report could have crossed the desk of the traitor king, who was an Admiral of the Fleet.
Thanks for sharing this important piece of history!
The Scapa Flow mission in Silent Hunter V was ridiculously tense. I have no idea how anybody could possible do this in real life.
@@justtime6736 Cry about it.
Mush Morton did similar feats in the Pacific, since the Japanese never developed night surface radar in any meaningful quantities. If you were brave enough to run around on the surface at night, you could have crazy success... those guys would run INSIDE the convoys, blacked out on the surface.
Many do not know this most important History.
And in context of the it's significance to the arms race that occurred continuously through World War Two and the developments that transpired between WW1 and WW2.
Thank you History Guy.
HMS Royal Oak was the one of the 5 Royal Navy battleships/Battlecruisers effectively sunk in the conflict. The other 4 were HMS Barham, HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Hood and HMS Repulse. And they were all sunk before 1942...
Yes Royal Oak sinking didn't change the force balance, but without the entrance of USA, UK couldn't have taken the combined force of German, Italian and Japanese Navy, moreon since HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant were damaged severely in famous Alexandria Raid, and by January 1942 Germany had 2 Battleships (considering Scharnhorst BB), Italy had 5 (not counting the damaged Cavour) and Japan had 9/10 (Musashi was on sea trials). Despite RN having quite a few CVs and a lot of cruisers and DDs, the numbers without USA's aid didn't favor them
The surface fleet of the German Kriegsmarin was effectively taken out by the British by 1942. The Italian fleet was effectively taken out by the Royal Navy in the battle of Matapan. There was no major US involvement. There is no question of taking on the "combined" force of the German and Italian navies, they were taken on and defeated separately by the Royal Navy.
The Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk by Japanese land based bombers. There were no major naval engagements between the British and Japanese, though the last Japanese ship to be sunk in WW2, the IJN Haguro, was sunk by a British destroyer.
One of those lost on the HMS Royal Oak was a relative of the famous Naval Historian Drachinifel.
Thanks THG!
As always, your videos are great.
Wow. Never heard this story. Love it
Brilliant video, as always. Would definitely welcome more WWI naval content, as I am always on the look-out for good video resources for my classroom teaching.
Dear History Guy: I love your productions and thank you for them. At 11:30, I think you meant to say "pinnace", not "pinnacle".
thank you, sir
I've been with Audible since 2006; a suggestion from a co-worker. Take the History Guy's advice here, it's a game changer. I take the 12 unit/yr subscription. As for undersea warfare I suggest: The War Below, James Scott. It concentrates on the US pacific effort against Japan. Oh, and that other enemy, the Mk 13 torpedo, but I'll leave that to you listening to the book.
finally gets around to it at 2:55 -- you're welcome
A very good video, as usual THG. Like USS Arizona, HMS Royal Oak leaked oil for many years, and because of the impact on wildlife much of it was pumped out of the ship between 2003 and 2010. There remains about 600 tonnes on board. By the way, at 11:29 I think you mean the ship's pinnace, rather than pinnacle. Once again, thanks for a superb video.
Until I started reading more on the European theater of WW2, I had only seen Scapa Flow as the name of a Thoroughbred broodmare. She contributed to the blood of several horses that are notable. However, I am amazed at the tenacity of the German navy that lost so many there. And then to have it turned on it's head and the British to lose so many. Wow.
Thanks history guy
this attack was carried out using the G7e electrical topedio, thus silent and invisible, the perplexed British determined the reason why the U-boat could strike repeatedly without being detected only after recovering the G7e topedios left behind in the Scapa Flow
Thank you for the story.
I had never heard this one before.
Another excellent piece
After attacking Scapa Flow in the game U-boat, this vid definitely interests me.
In London Cockney rhyming slang, Scapa flow means to Go. As in “ I’m gonna scapa now” (although usually spelt phonetically as Scarper as the A is a long one.) Royal Navy personnel posted to Scapa would be gone for quite some time.
Great video.
Would love to see one on American servicemen awarded soviet medal.
Fascinating and informative. Interesting to catch mention of American journalist, war correspondent, and author, John Gunther. Some may remember the memoir he penned about his son, John (Johnny) Gunther, Jr. in "Death Be Not Proud", once required reading in high school English classes across the country. I have no idea if that is still the case. Cheers.
Sadly, no its not.
AS ALWAYS THE HISTORY GUY, AN EXCELLENT VIDEO!!
Didn't know about the "boy sailors" that were aboard the ROYAL OAK.
That Royal Navy tradition of having young boys on warships as officer candidates ended after this diaster.
I seem to remember a story about a U-Boat attack on a Royal Navy anchorage on the last day World War II. Not sure if it was Scapa Flow or the Firth of Forth.🤔🤔🤔⚓⚓⚓🚢🚢🚢✌✌✌✌
FWIW, I was told by a retired submariner that it is pronounced “submarine-er”, not “sub-mariner”.
I have been told the exact opposite from other retired submariners- they disagree on the subject. But I did use the pronunciation that was used in the Audible narration.
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Haha, that's awesome.
Hi Lance, just wanted to correct a very slight landsman's error in your excellent presentation. What you referred to as the Royal Oak's 'pinnacle' is actually the pinnace (pronounced pin-us, usually), a shallow-draft boat with an inboard motor, used to convey crew and supplies between ship and shore. It was stored aboard the ship when underway. I only know because I used to live on a 40ft ex-RN pinnace built in 1920. The Royal Oak's would probably have been the longer version, but otherwise similar.
Wow! Now sponsored by Audible…truly into the big leagues! Congratulations and thanks for the awesome stories.
A year or so back, a routine survey of the seabed in Scapa Flow unearthed one of the torpedoes that missed that night and, basically, ran out of steam. The Royal Navy disposed of it in a controlled explosion.
Orkney can be a wild, desolate place but is steeped in history all the way back to the Neolithic . If you love history, it's well worth a visit.
It'd be very interesting to see you tackle the battle of Hong Kong in 1941. It's often little discussed or mentioned. Just a suggestion of course, anything you make is very well done, keep it up!
The Kings and Generals channel has started the Pacific War and will cover Hong Kong shortly.
@@jonniez62 Oh?
mark Felton made a video about it
@@Doochos Yep, I've seen it.
@@Doochos I'm not surprised.
I have a 50 mile commute each way, two hours in the morning, one at night. Audible turns it into fun educational time. I enjoy biographies, history, current events, etc. Just about finished with Brad Smith and Carol Anne Browne's "Tools and Weapons, The Promise and Peril of the digital age."
A great read... er... listen.
As someone that lives in the east of England, believe me, we ain't forgotten, the boat is still bloody there.
Starts at 3:00
Love the stories. I look forward all new vids
Drachinifel, another RUclipsr, has said his Great Uncle was in the engineering spaces on Royal Oak during the attack, and didn't survive.
I was just about to mention that. Watched one of Drach's videos today where he mentioned it.
The uncle in question opted for a 'safer' position as a stoker on a battle ship as opposed to his 'crazy' brothers, one of whom was a tail gunner, and the other went tearing across the desert. Both those brothers ended up surviving the war.
While I must acknowledge the tragedy here, the phrase "Navy's largest lost of boy seamen in the entire war" about killed me.
The great American model company Revell - which I think I now German - made a kit of the U-47. It was a cut away model and you could see the interior of the boat. There was a large historical section about the attack in the instructions.
I should have posted the nerd alert first.
Sorry guys.
Came here to find out why the fleet was at Scapa Flow in the first war. Thanks.
thx, very much
A fellow who does content here on RUclips lost one of his grandfather's on the Royal Oak in this attack.
You mean Drachinifel, and it was his grandfathers brother.
@@nicksykes4575
Yep. And I wasn't 100% sure and thanks for the clarification 👍
You should do an episode on weekends. I wonder how weekends got started.
Drachinifel's great uncle was on Royal Oak and sadly perished there.
Just commenting to say, keep it up!
The Churchill barriers were mainly built by Polish POWs and there is a wonderful chapel they built for themselves on the island from two converted Nissan huts.
ITALIAN PoWs actually.