Postmillennialism & Its Fruits | Jared Longshore & James White
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2022
- In this Reformation & Revival video, Pastor Jared Longshore and Dr James White discuss Postmillennialism and its fruits.
Reformation & Revival is presented by Canon Press.
I went to the "bright side" of postmil last December 2021. No more fear and doom and gloom. Instead, a glorious expectation of winning no matter how bad it may look or go for me personally.
“Jesus is a winner” 👈👉 as trump would say😎
Revelation 20:7-9 CSB
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison [8] and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. [9] They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
I am not postmil, and neither do I have a fear and doom and gloom outlook. Jesus is coming back some day, and all will be made new. There isn’t a more positive point of view possible.
@@elusive4072 That is either the most evil example of cherrypicking scripture or the greatest spiritual blindness and delusion. You pick. You start directly AFTER the verse (Rev 20:6) that completely discredits post millennialism.
In Rev 19 Jesus returns to an earth run by the Satan, the anti-christ/Beast, and the False Prophet (James White/Doug Wilson/the Pope??) and defeats them in the Battle of Armageddon. in 19:20 The Beast and False prophet go to the Lake of Fire.
In Rev 20:1-3 Satan is locked up for 1000 years - THE Millennium Then we have the first resurrection and in verse "6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.".
So let us recap. 1) The world is in a horrible state of evil run by Satan and his henchmen, NOT Jesus.
2) Jesus comes back bodily to earth and defeats Satan and has him imprisoned.
3) THEN, Jesus reigns ON EARTH with the saints for 1000 years or a millennium.
SO, 4) Jesus returns BEFORE the millennium starts and thus has a PREMILLENNIAL return. Post millennialism is a Satanic lie.
How is this (the world we’re living in now) the Lord Jesus ruling with a rod of iron!?
Isa 2:4 says the nations shall not lift up sword against each other and not learn war any more.
How is the time we’re living in now the Millennium!?
Pre Mill, pre Trib!
My PostMil journey began with Gary DeMar and continued with Dr. White, Doug Wilson, and then Bahnsen. It was like a light going off in my head and things that I'd wondered suddenly clicked together.
So what exactly was the light bulb moment that for you out weighs the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapters 19 and 20, where Jesus plainly says in Chapt 19 that He comes bodily back to earth to defeat a world ruled by Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet and then says in Chapter 20 that His return issues in the millennium or 1000 year reign. If Jesus says that He is coming back BEFORE the millennium, why are you listening to these lightweight liars that say we are 1952 years into the 1000 year millennium (Are we in sudden death overtime???) and Jesus cannot and will not come back until the Church cleans up and saves the entire world? When Jesus plainly says that most people will NEVER find the path to salvation Mat 7:13, why do you believe people who call Jesus a liar and say the Church will save everyone??
I think I is appropriate that you describe your experience as a light going off. Jesus described His entrance into the world more like a light going on. This post Millennial teaching is not Biblical and if you prayerfully study your Bible you should find that out for yourself.
@@hasimhodzic9649ESL? English propositions are weird.
A light going off is not the same as a light turning off, it actually means that they are turning on.
I’m thankful for my Baptist pastor from my high school days who patiently taught me the scriptures and introduced me to Gentry and others.
I have to admit, it has struck me as an amazing fact that this surge of postmillinealism (of which I am happily a part of now), has come, not as society has gotten BETTER, but as it has gotten WORSE in many ways.
What does this demonstrate? To me, this demonstrates a human inclination to fantasize about apocalypse when we are living in comfort and work towards comfort when we are living in apocalypse. If anything, this means we should not base our theological systems on our own impulses, but rather- just as it is discussed here in the video- base them on sound exegesis and firm theological principles.
It means you are deranged and delusional and cannot see the evil changes taking place in front of your own eyes and how it proves post mil is a satanic lie. If The devil is currently chained and Jesus is running everything on earth, why is the place and evil mess??? You are saying either that Satan is YOUR god OR Jesus does shoddy work!!! Wake up! This isan evil lie.
While I agree with your conclusion wouldn't that be reason to treat Postmill with suspicion? 😅
Seems that there's kind of a utilitarian approach being smuggled into Postmill thinking and we get phrases like 'optimistic vs pessimistic' eschatology when the only relevant question is what is true.
Personally I always trusted the Word of God when it says not one knows the day or the hour so I never bought into the conspiracy theories or paranoia; I don't think there's any chance of us missing the apocolypse by accident.
Maybe you're different but a lot of times when I hear from those who have crossed over it's having left behind an obsession with Left Behind rather than a moderate or sober minded premillenialism that admits to our own ignorance of specifics and that things are complicated when it comes to the eschaton.
God bless and may Jesus reign forevermore.
@@zacdredge3859 I think it would be reason to treat our impulses with suspicion, not a theological system. But if that system is more biblical than another, it should be treated as such, regardless of it’s level of popularity.
@@DallasNoTex BUT this system is simply NOT biblical at all. There are some out of context Bible verses used but it completely ignores what the Bible teaches on the subject. 1) The only place that an actual Millennium (1000 year reign) is mentioned in the Bible is Rev 20 which comes right AFTER the Second Coming of Jesus in Rev 19, so a Post-mil return of Jesus is a complete lie. 2) The claim that Satan was chained in 70 AD does not match the observable fact that Satan, not Jesus, appears to be running Earth right now. This is not the way the world is supposed to run under Christ.. 3) There has been NO resurrection of the dead which Jesus, and paul both say occurs when Jesus returns.
Post-mil is clearly evil nonsense.
It could also demonstrate that the church starts getting more stuff right at large when fire is present to burn away the dross and extra junk that’s been accumulating around the edges. Tough times, tough church.
Yep identify with Dr whites position here. Since late 2019 when my family and I discovered Apologia Church on RUclips, we together have had our eyes opened - literally like scales removed!! Suddenly we were hungry to read, hungry did the bread of life. And like so many in these comments are saying- no more doom gloom don’t have kids mindset! Now only glorious hope. This even in a home church h which still holds to a pre-mil pre-trib disp position, we are now observing their doom and gloom and hoping and praying they will see it too!!
You realize that you believe a Satanic lie don't you Actually read Revelations chapters 19 and 20. Chapter 19 Jesus returns to a world filled by evil and run by Satan - our present world. He kicks Satan's keyster. In Chapter 20 Jesus imprisons him for 1000 years and sits down on earth to rule with the saints for 1000 years - the one and only Millennium. Millennium means 1000 years not 1900+ and counting. These chapters say plainly that Jesus not the church subdues Satan and that Jesus' return kicks off the Millennium. It does NOT follow the 1000 year reign. Exactly how deluded and stupid are you ??
This conversation was a blessing on so many levels. Thank you so much for this video!
Because of the situations caused by the virus, I am no longer a dispensational premillennialist.
I've done some research and listened to very respectable exponents of Amillennialism, and concluded I don't hold it conclusively.
I am in the process of reading more about Postmillennnialism, which is currently the one view that tends to address many of the gaps and issues I personally had encountered. I plan to read RC Sproul's book "The Last Days According to Jesus, " and Greg Bahnsen's book "Victory in Jesus."
I am excited to learn more about it!
The part where he said "left behind " cracked me,😂
Man, thanks, Jared - this is so important. Wish y’all could’ve talked for a few hours. 😊
If you believe any of those lies you can easily believe that they DID talk for hours lying.
Excellent video, thanks for sharing 🙏🏼
I really enjoyed listening to James White talk about this! Thank you!
Do you like lying fairy tales. This is not what Jesus taught us.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 clearly that's debatable
@@euaggelion03 It is not debatable. You have no real rebuttal. James White is a liar.
@@euaggelion03 This is complete lunacy. Read the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapters 19 and 20, a book actually about eschatology. Jesus returns to earth in Chapter 19 defeating Satan who is still running the earth with the antichrist/Beast and the False Prophet. (This prophecy was written in 90 AD well after the Temple was destroyed.) Then in verse 20 comes the Millennium, the 1000 year reign of Jesus with the resurrected saints. This happens directly AFTER Jesus' Return. This means that Jesus' return is Premillennial NOT Post millennial. That is what the terms mean. Thus both Post mil and A-mil (no millennium) are simply and clearly false. You do not need years of study or a knowledge of Greek or Hebrew to see this. There is no slight of hand. These guys are either evil or wackos. Either way avoid them for the plague that they are. Anyone this twisted or stupid has nothing useful to tell you about Jesus or Christianity.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 I have to agree with you that James is wrong in this video but I think that you are being a little unfair to call him a liar. I think that he has been deceived by others on this subject but that doesn’t undo all the years he has rightly taught on the subject he knows best.
Thanks for a great conversation!
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I enjoyed it.
My biggest take away. The Baptism debate was while ago, so yall are hiding a bunch of Dr.James White content!
This is the last piece for now. We need to have him out again!
@@CanonPress please and thank you!
But we do appreciate you dripping this superior content out 👍
Please hide all of it. It is rubbish.
James White is a Legend! ❤
In his own warped mind. He is also mostly wrong.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 bro DESTROYS everyone he debates.
@@josva9124 If you are talking about James White, No, not true. And you can build up a phony record if you only fight 2 o3 three classes under your weight class. He was completely wrong in this video
I can’t believe what I’m hearing. This is my exact testimony as well.
Dr white rockin that Francis Schaeffer go-tee :D
My intro to James White was infuriating debate stuff, but now I’m starting to like him and agree with him a lot more when it’s not the cagey debate format
Yeah for eyes being opened with these 2 bros. Now may James do the same with paedo baptism and like myself a credo Baptist for 50 yrs become convinced of the biblical validity of paedo baptism. The key is being teachable and persistent in studying the texts till it becomes revelatory with both postmil n paedo baptism, and rocks your world till you embrace these great truthes that turns out world right side up, hallelujah!!!!!!¡!!!
This was great
Great Folly.
Love it! I'm a hopeful Postmillenial, just like there are hopeful universalist. Scripturally not convinced of Postmil but I hope/wish it is/was true.
Premil makes more scriptural sense. I don’t understand how you can arrive at postmillenialism.
@@krisjones4051 I was raised premil and no, I am not a Postmil. There are many reasons why I cannot hold the premil view but one passage that really finalised it for me was 1Corinthians 15. Still studying and learning though, trying to remain faithful to His word
There’s a tonne of scripture :)
“I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.”
Psalm 2:7-12 ESV
“The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.”
Isaiah 2:1-4 ESV
“Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.”
1 Corinthians 15:24-26 ESV
@@renlamomtsopoe In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is speaking to the church and promises that individual Christians and the corporate church will be raptured “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.” For them, death will be defeated (1 Cor. 15:52); however, Paul never states that death itself will be defeated at the moment of Christ’s return for the saints. He only says that Christ’s resurrection will ultimately put death “to death” for all who believe in Him.
Isaiah 65:17-25 describes the Millennial Kingdom by saying that there will still be sin and therefore death after the return of Christ: “For the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed” (v. 20).
Also, the Millennium clearly has a temple whereas in the eternal kingdom there will be no temple. During the Millennium, the sacrifices will be offered in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, described by Ezekiel 40-48. For the first time, animal sacrifices will be offered by national Israel in faith with a full understanding of why they are being made: to remember and rejoice in the finished work of Christ. Therefore, animals will continue to die in the Millennial period.
Zechariah 14:17 indicates that some will not obey the Lord Jesus after His return and during the Millennium. Some will refuse to come to Jerusalem to worship the Lord Jesus Christ, and “upon them shall be no rain.” During this part of His Kingdom, Jesus will rule with a rod of iron, and He will punish all disobedience, smite the disobedient with a plague, and “smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.” (Zechariah 14:18-20)
Premillennialism just makes sense scripturally and doesn’t require non-literal interpretations of the Bible.
@@krisjones4051 the chapters in Ezekiel you cite are referring to the future 2nd temple since the first one was destroyed at the time of writing.
You really think they’ll reinstitute animal sacrifices? After Christ died once for all? Blasphemy.
The great tribulation happened in AD70. Partial preterism is the biblically correct view. God divorced the harlot Israel and has taken a new bride - the church. Israel will be grafted back in by faith after the fullness of gentiles is brought in.
Once you read the Olivet Discourse and Revelation in context (THAT audience whom it was written to), PostMillennialism flows easily. The great tribulation is past. Our future (we’re in the early church) is BRIGHT. 🎉
I often hear "Christ's imminent return should drive us to do as much as we can for Him and His kingdom! It should make us get busy." I find that it has actually done the opposite. Instead of moving Christians to action, it has rather made us lazy.
All true Bible doctrine, even if negative in message, should have positive fruit. What is the fruit of dispensationalism, premillennialism, and the rapture? Complacency and inaction. Yes, there are exceptions, but that is the current mainstream "end times" view, and you cannot tell me it has not had an "oh well" effect on Christianity as a whole. I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it's a huge one.
Very well said! I have a friend who is dispensational and another who is historic premil and both of these guys have this attitude that is just so complacent. The historic premil guy thinks Christ will come in the next 20 years or so (where he came up with that I don't know) and he sees everything through that pessimistic lens. The dispy guy is just sitting and waiting for Jesus to rapture us out of this awful, hopeless world. He has completely given up on life. It's so very sad!
What I see from the secular state that Dr. White speaks of reminds me so much of CS Lewis's That Hideous Strength.
I became post-mil the following way: A friend gave me THE LAST DAYS ACCORDING TO JESUS by R.C. Sproul. I read it 4 times and absorbed it, then went and read several books from authors quoted in a positive sense in that book. Ken Gentry, Gary DeMar, David Chilton, Gary North, which then led me to Douglas Wilson/ Jeff Durbin, which led me to Bahnsen,,,,,, after reading several books from each author, I found that I could not get around them,,, in the sense that I could not refute any of their arguments and could not see how they were misusing the text,,, on the other hand they were letting the text speak for itself, no system applied over the scripture, very organic,,,, and this is something that I cannot say about the pre-mil, dispensational system..
When did the Millenial Reign of Christ start and end?
@@1969cmp It began when Jesus ascended to heaven.. Daniel 7:13-14 ,,, it has not ended yet,,, and no one is to set a date as to when it will end... Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father right now until all enemies will be put under His feet. Does this help?
@@evantheorthodox740 Two things.
If thee millennial reign started around 30AD, it means it should have ended around 1030AD. 'Millennium' means 1,000 and it not and allegory timeframe.
How's dies The Millennium start?. When Jesus descends to the earth. Read that last few chapters of Revelation.
The Millennium has not yet started. None of the criteria has been met.
@@1969cmp I'm sorry you disagree. Can you please show me how the number 1,000 is used in the Old Testament, and if it is literal or symbolic... such as God owning the cattle on 1,000 hills..... does God own the cattle on the 1001 hill? I'm afraid you need to learn the language of the prophets.
@@evantheorthodox740 ...read the last few chapters of Revelation.
THE FATHER IS SO SOBERING
Revelation 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
I would say that postmillenialism has helped me to love everyone a lot more easily, not just the dispies; it allows much more wiggle room for all of us to be wrong on a wide variety of theological issues, and for a long time, and perhaps to never get them right in our lifetimes... and for that to be perfectly fine (in a sense). In other words, it gives me a really logical foundation for patience in that area. I guess that's what they meant by being "friends with everybody."
Christ is supposed to be the one that makes a christian love everyone a lot more easily, not a doctrine... Oh Lord have mercy.
@@soloencristo1 yes, and He uses means.
@@ArtsySinger sure, I hope this is your case.
Artless one, how does any of that matter if Post millennialism is a satanic and easily disproved lie?? Go to Revelations 20 which is right after Jesus returns to Earth in Chapt 19. See Satan only being chained after Jesus returns. See the 1000 year reign ONLY starting when Jesu returns. Millennial MEANS 1000 years. Jesus' return PRE- Millennial. Thus POST-Millennial is a lie no matter how much you like it or how it makes you feel. Feellings are not facts. What are you - two years old??
Christ is the reason I love others, because he first loved me. I'm patient because he's patient with me. I forgive because I'm forgiven. Christ should be our motivation not an end times timeline.
Yea I'm done with planes too and have drove all over the country with the kids last few years. Might take a train trip someday. But my dad took me cross country and how I learned to drive so why not do same with my kids
Pastor James White was speaking about a film pastor Douglas Wilson was in, what movie was that?
The Little Mermaid. Doug played Ursula.
All i am hearing is hearsay, speculation, and assumption so far. Nothing about what the scriptures say. But i will keep listening and trust the Lord for discernment.
Not every conversation has to be a verse by verse defense. You can find that in other places my friend. This is a conversation.
If you are more interested in this position, I would recommend watching the documentary "On Earth as it is in Heaven" for more of a Scriptural perspective. Also, start watching Apologia Studios and sermons by Jeff Durbin. Those two resources helped convince me Scripturally of the Post Mill perspective.
None of this is true. It runs directly counter to scripture. Read Revelations Chapters 19 and 20. In 19 Jesus returns to Earth bodily and defeats Satan who is running this world right now. In Chapter 20 Satan is bound and the 100 year or Milleninial reign of Jesus starts. This is clearly a pre- millennial return of Jesu NOT an Post -Millennial one. A child can see it but not these lying clowns.
Jared
"You almost got left behind?"💀
I appreciate the dialogue. I still have my reservations with both brother James and brother Jared. Brother Jared’s recent convictions regarding his position on the Baptist theology (and credo/peudo baptism), have also had me cautioning his teachings.
None the less, I pray that through both of these men, the Gospel would still be advanced to the ends of the earth.
Are you insane?? 1) The gospel has already made it to the ends of the earth in the 19th and 20th centuries. Name one place that has not heard.
2) Neither of these lying false teachers had anything to do with it.
3) The Bible only mentions the Millennium in one chapter -- Revelation 20. There it plainly says that Jesus returns to earth in Chapter 19; locks up Satan for 1000 years and reigns with the resurrected saints for a Millennium or 1000 years.
4) Jesus' return comes BEFORE the 1000 year millennium!!! A 3rd grader can see it. These evil men cannot and hence serve Satan.
James Jordan’s series on Revelation in Canon Plus is superb. It is amazing.
Oh man Jared's joke at 21:26 did not get the reaction it deserved! I laughed out loud.
Yes
Epic
THROUGH THE SUN SINCE THEY WORSHIP IT'S ENERGY
What are the major differences between post mil and A mil?
One is wrong and the other is incorrect.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 But what about the differences...? lol
What are they?
@@dylanmcphee8454 Post-mil teaches that the Church will eventually transform the world into a kind of utopia. A-mil is pessimistic, saying the world will wax worse and worse. I really do not see either being biblical, there have been and are many brothers in Christ who have disagreed sharply on eschatology
@@dylanmcphee8454 To be very simple - A-Mil says the is no millennium which says that Revelation 20 is a lie because that says thre IS a 1000 year reign or millennium. So that position is anti-biblical. And false.
Post Mil says that Jesus comes back after the Millennium of Revelations 20 which is also anti-Biblical and false since in Revelation Jesus comes back to Earth in Rev 19 right before the millennium and His return ushers in the millennium.
Both are easy to prove false in 5 minutes if you can read. Since their major premises are false, they are false. You do not need to go any deeper than that. Both are nonsense.
What is the best book on postmill?
Greg Bahnsen Victory in Jesus
Or Kenneth Gentry He Shall have Dominion
I also like Doug’s book Misplaced Heaven. Its on Canon+
Paradise Restored by David Chilton is good as well
I'd add to those listed, Lorraine Boettner, _The Millennium._
Clifford the Big Red Dog. It is a post mil allegory that explains Post Mil far more rationally the James White did.
I don't understand the argument of pointing to WWI and WWII to dismiss postmillennialism. The fact that the world is still here should mean something.
What happened to Dr. White's lip? I can't recall having seen that scar before.
Yeah. I noticed that too and don't remember ever seeing that. Looks like a significant cut!
It is from biting his lip from lying so much.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 lying so much? Any specifics for your accusation?
@@DreamingPhenom Did you not listen to the video?? Post- Mil is an obvious and damnable lie. Jesus said plainly that he is returning immediately AFTER the great Tribulation (Mat 24:29-31)so POST-Trib and Immediately before the millennium or 100 year reign starts. (Rev chapters 19 and 200, so PRE-Millennial.
Jimmy Pinocchio says that Jesus will not come back until the 1000 year reign of Jesus over the entire world is Over (Post -mil return). He says that 1000 years started in 70 AD and only has a -952 years to go. Wait something is wrong with that !
Jimmy Pinocchio says the world is currently ruled by Jesus but the church must somehow perfect it before Jesus will come back. Of Jesus is currently in charge of all the nations of the world, He is doing a horrible job. Sin is rampant. Values are perverted. Education and government are messed up - All thsi Jimmy and Doug Wilson acknowledge, bit they also say that God determines EVERYTHING that is being done. It sure looks like Satan is still the Prince of this world just like Jesus said he was.
I sympathize with any teaching pastor who's staked much of his ministry and reputation on tribulational eschatology. It's a daunting proposition to live out an exegetical paradigm shift in the pulpit.
What is the postmill view of the MOL of 2 Thessalonians 2 with the coming of Jesus?
ruclips.net/video/fcadmezdhM4/видео.html
I think it's understood to be Nero.
Yeah, the man of lawlessness was Nero. As was indicated that at the time Thessalonians was written, the man of lawlessness was being restrained.
I’ve also seen application made that the word for restrain is a play on Claudius’ name. Meaning Nero couldn’t come to power until Claudius was removed.
So Chris came in his blazing glory already? The MOL is destroyed at the second coming of Christ …. “Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;”
2 Thessalonians 2:8
@@kendalladams2226 ruclips.net/video/fcadmezdhM4/видео.html
As long as Postmillennialists ignore the fundamental issues regarding the Millennium of Rev. 20, no Christian should take them seriously.
The concomitants of the 2nd Advent/Coming of Christ are absolutely ESSENTIAL to understanding the Millennium.
Even Postmillennialists have to answer questions concerning the 2nd Advent; but they'd just rather ignore them.
Frustrating.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
I'm premilll but not stressed out nor pessimistic nor dismissive of my potential grandkids. Thanks for the chat though. 😅
I am with you I’m not sure where they’re getting that notion from. The Bible clearly teaches to be ready at all times whether the Lord comes today or not in our lifetime just make sure you’re ready whether he comes back or you die before that. To live stressed out or pessimistically about the future or dismissive of your grandkids is anti-biblical. Jesus says raise your children in the way, be anxious for nothing, And live with Hope in the surety of our salvation. It is very weird to insinuate that without a postmillennial view that you would have these negative attributes concerning your faith. If those negative attributes were how you feel then you’re certainly not walking in the spirit and having a proper faith and understanding of the gospel. So you would have a bigger problem than your view of the end times. That would be a sinful faith problem.
22:10 bookmark
It's 'its.' 🙂
22:39 This is a fascinating exchange. I've seen this in other places when postmils talk about the Great Commission. There is an apparent understanding that they have about the Great Commission that is not being communicated well. It seems they are saying that because Jesus said the words, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me," this indicates that their eschatology is confirmed.
I am concerned that the postmil eschatology is the hermeneutic through which the Great Commission is read, rather than letting the Great Commission say what it says. Postmil needs the Greek word "ethnos" in the Great Commission to mean "all people in all nations," rather than a more conservative meaning, such as "people" or "multitude." The meaning that fits the eschatology is picked, thus confirming the eschatology; postmil appears, therefore, to be the starting point and the ending point of understanding the Great Commission. This is cyclical reasoning. It also doesn't seem to line up with the rest of the New Testament.
From Acts through the rest of the Bible, we see the Gospel going out and the manner in which it goes out. If we are to interpret Scripture with Scripture, where and when do we see the apostles teaching people to take dominion of the earth, including its governments, institutions, and cultures?
On the other hand, we do see them going and making disciples, and baptizing new believers, just as Jesus said. If the other part is missing--dominion--then perhaps dominion was not expressed at all in the Great Commission.
I Corinthians 15 is claimed for postmil support. However, the statement that Jesus must rule until all enemies are put under His feet is claimed to mean that we Christians will do the "putting" of the enemies under His feet. The entirety of chapter 15 is about the resurrection at Jesus' second coming, which is going to be awesomely victorious. But postmils find their eschatology in the middle of the passage, somehow, because the Great Commission was already decided to mean they get to take dominion, in addition to spreading the Gospel.
But the problems do not stop there. Old Testament passages are claimed as being confirming postmil, and are used as support for the interpretation of the Great Commission and I Corinthians 15. Statements in Daniel, Psalms, and Isaiah, though possibly in agreement with postmil, there is no clear line as to exactly which eschatology those passages are pointing to, if any. But this is no problem if postmil is the hermeneutic, which I'm concerned is the case.
The last problem I want to address is that of success. It appears White and Longshore have decided what success means. They can't imagine that the success of the Gospel could mean anything less than nearly every person in every nation eventually becoming a Christian. Why is that success? It strays towards Universalism. I do not see--even looking through the posmil lens--that success of the Gospel must mean nearly everyone comes to Christ. All I know is--and I believe all anyone knows is--that exactly the people God elected for salvation will be saved; no more no less. I don't know how many people this will be, but I trust that God is sovereign, wise, and good.
what the post mils also miss is that the bible nowhere says things will be better, more Christian before Jesus returns. It says the exact opposite. A great falling away is coming. More apostasy
Also they completely ignore the Noaic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants. Without these you will never get Israel or eschatology right.
Agreed. A lot of proof texting of passages without solid contextual and canonical arguments.
I agree also with the point that I don't see scripturally where the disciples and the early church people were ever trying to win over governments or see great change within governmental systems. This is the same thing I say to my social justice warrior friends when they want to tell me that Jesus was a disruptor and change agent and all this kind of stuff. I respond back that Jesus's primary goal was to seek and save the lost. I don't see anywhere where he gives any kind of hint that the disciples should go and try to work with the Roman government or take over government positions or protest or riot or even be concerned about what's happening to a great degree in the worldly sphere. I hear more from the scriptures that this world is not our home, we are pilgrims, and we are passing through. Even Jesus said that straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. So how will we get to a point where the world would be mostly christianized? I'm trying to give post- millennialism a fair shake and to listen without just casting it off, but I don't see it as consistent as the premillennial view. To be fair, I have not done a lot of reading, just listening to podcasts and such. Perhaps I'll read a book or two.
Surveyor, 1) Ethos is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word Goy usually is translated Gentiles in English. If you place that word in the Great Commission it reads go and preach to all the Gentiles and baptize those that believe. This is exactly what the Apostles eventually did in the entire Book of Acts after about a year of sitting in Jerusalem. That has been largely completed in the 19th and 20 th centuries. There are no more Gentile nations to reach. The Gospel has gone to all the Gentile "nations " all the ethnos. Most have rejected it. and the US is in the process of rejecting it as is Europe. This is not progress.
2) The real thing to worry about with their attitude towards the Great Commission is that Post-Mils Like Doug Wilson changed the commission and the gospel to a command to go to the leaders of every nation state and tell them NOT that Jesus died for their sins but that He He is currently their sovereign Lord and they must immediately submit to Him or to them His representatives. This is Cromwell bringing about the Kingdom one dead body at a time. This is heresy and madness. Go watch Doug's movie. It is terrifying. He is insane.
How do y'all square Matt 7:13-14 with Post? Specifically 23:00 ish mark. I don't see the GC as the way you are describing it. Same way I don't expect to evangelize every single person in my life and wonder why the Holy Spirit didn't change their hearts every time.
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and *those who find it are few.*
As this is framed in terms of who finds it, I'm perfectly fine assuming that the number of people who find the narrow way unaided by any special act of God to be zero. Rom 3: 11 "no one understands; no one seeks for God." But assuming that zero people find the narrow way doesn't take away from the fact that salvation is of God bringing his people to him, not of what man seeks and finds. Thus it can be true that man's efforts don't lead to salvation, and yet the postmil vision of God bringing many to him are both true.
The Book of Revelation, (esp chapters 6 thru 18, or so) must have no use to the post millenialist?
That’s odd, why? Do the prophecies regarding the birth, life and death of Jesus cease to be relevant because they were fulfilled in our past?
I think you have that wrong.
For the Premil position; Revelation is hardly relevant to the original audience.
The PostMil position is that most of Revelation was fulfilled prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.
The PreMil position is that the original audience was learning about someone who wouldn’t come on the scene for 2000 plus years
Neither does any FULL book of the Bible. It gets in the way of their lies.
I rejected postmill when I realized that I could never read the Torah with any consistency at all. I'd either have to wholesale allegorize it or cut it out of my Bible.
All of post- mil is inconsistent and a lie as is Calvinism which these guys also teach. They claim everything is allegory because the plain truth proves them wrong. Any time it takes a long and convoluted trail of tissue paper fairy tales to "prove" a theory, it is probably false. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus says in Chapt 19 that He comes back to earth while Satan is still in charge. the very next chapter says that Jesus' return results in the millennium or 1000 year reign of Jesus. If Jesus returns BEFORE the millennium, then he is NOT coming AFTER the Millennium or Post-Mil. It really IS that simple. The mumbo jumbo is all to hide that simple fact or scripture. Without Rev 20, there is NO millennium in scripture as such. This is the only place a thousand years reign is mentioned. It is hinted at in the prophets without a set time.
Ya and you should continue to reject it 😂😂😂
21:31 I see what you did there😜
Could someone that understands Postmillennialism please give us a list of verses in the NT that are references to the yet future coming of Jesus?
No, because all of their lying eyes turn to fire when they try to read the Bible. I, however, would suggest reading Revelations Chpters 19 and 20 where jesus returns bepfre the millenium to usher in the millennium.
1 Corinthians 15:24-26, 2 Peter 4, Matt 24:36ff
@@jonasaras Mat 24:29-31, I Thes 4:13-18
"the just shall live by..."
I'm confused. There is no Psalm 1:10. What am I missing here?
Oh! lol! He means Psalm 110. 🙃
I simply have to take the Thomas approach on this, unless the bones of the patriarchs are completely gone from The Caves of the Patriarchs, then I'll be convinced of Postmillennialism. Otherwise, I simply don't see it. I defer to Alan Kurschner for any rebuttal. So any comments at this time, eh, send it to Alan. Also too many martyrs in other countries disarray me as well. Such martyrdom shouldn't exist in the millennial era.
Gary there are doctrines that may be hard to prove or disprove. Post mil is not one of them. Any 6 year old can show it is wrong. There is only one passage in the Bible that literally talks about an actual Millennium, a thousand year reign of Jesu son Earth. That is Revelation 20. Just before than in Chapter 19 Jesus returns bodily to Earth. Then and only then does the millennium begin. Thus the POST-Millennial return of Jesus is simply an easily disproved lie. They can twist all the other verses they like but it is all lies. Jesus comes before not after the millennium. Any questions??
I have heard rumors that Pre-mil is dominate in sound biblical churches abroad. I saw an interview with a Chinese Pastor, and he was pre-mil.
@@sanders194539 Pre-mil is simply the only biblically sound position given Rev 20.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 Pre-mil is the most Biblically sound. Also, Pre-mil is supported by extra-biblical evidence as well: the law of entropy. Also, many Muslims, Jews, and Free Masons are expecting a literal anti-christ figure in the future.
There is a whole lot of uncharitable making fun of other eschatological views and brothers and sisters in Christ that is really inappropriate. Assuming that if you’re not postmil you can’t be optimistic about the future of the church, or that you don’t believe Jesus is King of kings in an earthly/real sense, etc. making fun of others who don’t interpret scripture the same way you do in this way is not helpful and just makes you look full of yourselves. Eschatology is, and should be a tertiary issue, and making it the focus of your entire ministry and purposely using it to create an “us vs them” dynamic is disunifying especially when it comes to the mission of the church; evangelism (NOT cultural transformation).
Unfortunately these false teachers have made it primary to their warped theology. And even worse it is silly and completely wrong and calls God evil and a liar. If God not the devil is ruling the earth now then God is incompetent. Evil is growing before our eyes. Also Jesus said Post Mil was a lie in Rev 20. Rev 19 Jesus bodily returns, Rev 20 the millennial or thousand year reign begins. If you are going to make fun of people it helps if you are not 100% wrong.
“What if we are in the early church?” That doesnt make any sense. There would be nothing to add up to say we are in the early church. I think of my children and grandchildren and investing in them. Why? Because God says too!!!
Yes, This is just lies.
Exactly. We do not evangelize because we have an optimistic view, we evangelize out of obedience and joy for what Christ has done!
I think the point he was trying to make is that many many people say that they're the last generation before Christ returns, and he's merely just positing the question to make people question that presupposition. I got what he was saying, essentially what if there's still hundreds if not thousands of years before any view of eschatology is fully realised (whatever it is)
Don't worry, God is in control of everything. Jesus is the Lord, obey Jesus Law. The world is getting better because Jesus is Lord and His Law governs. Church-goers are not His Church if they are antinomian.
Say again - the world is getting better ? Pray tell in what aspect (s) ... 🤨
@@toolegittoquit_001 In every aspect related to God's Law and soveriegnty. For example, antinomian and arminian religious organizations are failing to the degree that they are against Him. All Governments that deny Jesus as Lord are failing to the degree they deny Him. We see progress over time. We are better off today than under the Roman Empire, Catholic Europe, British monarchy, Soviet Union, Aztecs, and on and on. Of course, progress has it's ups and downs but the overall trend is up for those that love God.
If this is your view of a world getting better then I would hate to see a world getting worse...
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Well, better or worse compared to what?
@@bartycrouch312 We live in a world where Christianity is less esteemed and less present than it has been historically, where Christianity has been used to enact atrocious immoralities in the name of God, blaspheming His holy name. Sin is increasingly considered acceptable, even morally obligatory. Mass murder is now commonplace, and some of those who engage in such things would consider themselves Christian. Things are generally a lot worse than they were, but more than that they are getting worse.
The only thing improving is technology, which gives humanity more power but doesn't actually improve society unless that power is used morally, which it normally isn't. In short, everything is worse than it has been at any point after Christ, and everything is getting worse.
why does Jared sounds like Thomas Sowell
Thank God that 'dispensational' John Macarthur recently spoke the truth of God's judgment to Governor Gavin Newsome.
Much of the discussion was a critique of amillenialism. For instance, a belief that Christ hold all authority on earth now, so we should proclaim his law to the powers-that-be is not uniquely post-mil. Pre-millers also believe this (John MacArthur's recent dust-up over covid restrictions is a good example). We just expect the eventual result of such a proclamation to be different.
"What if" The destruction has to be so complete that we never look back. Seems like this is saying that fallen man will one day get spiritual eyes to see. I think this is contrary to what the Bible says about natural human nature. "You can not see the Kingdom of Heaven, unless you are born again". And yet the best of fallen man, the rulers, arts, science etc. that is against God, as Paul tells us in Romans is "suppressing the truth" Will one day see the destruction they cause and realize that they can't fix what they screwed up and will have to go with God's way. My question is why haven't they seen all the destruction of last century and figured it out? Two world wars and Communism killing 100 million. Why didn't they see it? Because they are spiritually blind. This seems to me to be very inconsistent exegesis.
1) In addition to Pre-Mil, Post-Mil and A-Mil, isn't there also General Mills that includes the whole grain goodness and optimism of its Cheerios cereal?
2) At 40:04-15, Dr. Longshore either quotes or paraphrases Martin Luther with these words: 'Learn what it means when Martin Luther said "You know I preach the Word of God, and then drink Wittenberg beer with my friends and the Word did everything."'
How did that routine work out for the 16th century German Protestant Reformer at the end of his life?
A. In 1543, three years before his death, Martin Luther published his work The Jews and Their Lies, any of whose content would not be suitable for quoting here in light of what happened to Germany's Jews, particularly during the 20th century.
B. In his final written testament published one year before his death, Martin Luther personally addressed the Pope, the Catholic Bishop of Rome, with these words: "I would not dream of judging or punishing you, except to say that you were born from the behind of the devil, are full of devils, lies, blasphemy, and idolatry; are the instigator of these things, God’s enemy, Antichrist, desolater of Christendom, and steward of Sodom." (From Against the Roman Papacy, an Institution of the Devil, pg. 363 of Luther’s Works, Vol. 41)
Had Dr. Luther become too much under the influence for his own good?
'Ein bier, bitte. Prost!' [Gulp]
Dr, White needs a furry top hat to complete his wardrobe. 😏
The Jokers out fit would work well and suit his character.
He went to Jared?
21:31
That was on purpose, wasn't it...
I feel obligated to remind everyone that James White obtained his “PhD” from Columbia Evangelical Seminary, a known degree mill
It looks like he got it out of a box of Wheaties.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 More like one of those cheap cereals that come in a plastic bag on the bottom shelf of the supermarket
@@user-gv8xf9ul5j Do they have theological degrees in them too? I wondered where Doug Wilson got his.
it's too bad really. it discredits him. that, and claiming to be reformed.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 I think he found it in between the couch cushions if a red roof inn
This video illustrates my biggest problem with post-millenialism. You can't just judge it "by its fruits" alone. It needs to be defended from scripture. The test of looking at the fruits (Matthew 7) applies to people, not to specific doctrines. I just want to know if the Bible teaches it or not. Arguing "people who believe this doctrine have good fruit in their lives" doesn't quite work on its own.
The reason that believers get bad end-time theology is because they are ignorant of Torah,Moedim, Shabbat, and the Prophets.These are literal pictures that explain all that YHWH has revealed, and will be done in the Millennium by the Bride. Learn them. Do them.
Seventh day from creation is Shabbat. Hebrews 4. At sundown on the 6th day (5999th year) the Shabbat begins for 1000 years. 2000 years to Abrahamic covenant, 2000 years to Messiah, 2000 years to the Kingship. 6 days for man to work, and then the Rest of YAH. Day of Shouts/Trumpets is a rapture of Saints (1 corinth 15/1 These. 4-5). Days of Awe are Jacob's Trouble. Day of Attonments is Rev 19:11, in addition to Yeshua Barabbas the scapegoat, Isaiah 53 (carried our guilt), and the blood shed for us (Scarlet to White) The Land of Israel, the sins of the priestly order (Church) and the Altar are also attoned for. Somber judgment for unbelievers. Rejoicing for the redeemed. Tabernacles is the Promise of Isaiah 66/Zechariah 14. Immanuel. Yah with Man. New moons, Shabbat, Torah going forth from Zion, and Moedim are done by King Yeshua, under threat of force (Drought).
It is all there, if we only read the Book and believed it, instead of our Post-Nicean traditions. YESHUA died at 3pmish on Passover, he spent 3 days and three nights in the heart of the earth, putting off our Sin (unleavened bread), and rose, showing himself alive as a waive offering on the Day of First fruits. He sent the Set-Apart Spirit on Pentacost, the last seal of the Bridal Engagement before the Groom would come to take his Bride away for the consumation. Scripture is true and all the Torah and Prophets are not filled in yet. Four Horsement judge the nations. War, famine disease, death. The curse of the Torah, the consequence for David's census, the consequence for idolatry by Babylon, the consequence for idolatry by Rome, the consequence for the end time rebellious church and nations. Zechariah 6 and later explain. Rev. 6 reinforces. The Rev 6 white horse rider acts under the authority of the "Crown", is carried by the white vehicle, and uses toxon (poison for arrows, injected into skin) to pierce and poison and kill after the fact. The fiery horse brings worldwide end to peace with the great war sword. China/Russia/Iran/ much? The black horse wrecks food production, value of money, and fuel. World Economic Forum much? The Dappled (Chloros) horseman brings death to 1)4 of Earth. If this is not the Revelation 6th riding none has been closer. , It fits the time frame (Year 6000ish), chronological order of judgments, completed preaching if the Gospel to all, and the manner of armaments of the judgments. Know your word. Keep the Commands of the Father and the Belief if Yeshua the Messiah. Blessings.
@@johnwurfel2862 If you're referring to a premillenial view of eschatology, I'm with you all the way.
No that is an even bigger lie, Satan. If that were true, why has 99%+ of all the Jews in the world for the last 1900 years gone straight to Hell for rejecting their Messiah?? They have had and studied the Torah and the rest and it benefitted them not at all.
Also dim one, pictures are figurative NOT literal. Yes there are things in the prophets that help understand Revelations and I have studied them.. But the re is NOTHING in the Torah on euchology. There is nothing in the sabbath, Prove me wroong with specific examples not vague claims.
Dr. White and the host talked about how pre-millenials do not have a grand scheme of understanding of God and His plan. This is definitely not true. Pre-millennial understand that there is a grand scheme in God's plan. And the second return of Christ to bring in the Millennial Kingdom on earth is part of the grand plan to redeem the entire creation unto God.
1 Cor 15:25 also does not conflict with a pre-millennial understanding. We all agree that Christ is sitting on the right hand side of the Father right now. In Psalm 110:1, the Lord is saying to Christ, sit at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy foot stool. So Christ is returning to sit on the throne of his father David, and all the enemies will be put under His feet, under the end of Millenium, then death, the last enemy will be conquered as Paul said in 1 Cor.
Also, please do not confuse pre--tribulation rapture with pre-millennials. Pre-mills could be pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath or post-trib. But that is another topic.
But the Father says to the Son ‘sit at my right hand (which he says as Jesus is going to sit down) UNTIL I put an enemy under your feet.’ In the pre mil view, it is actually sit and my right hand, then we’ll go down to earth at some point, then you’ll sit down again, and then I will put your enemies under your feet.’ Not trying to argue. I just don’t understand how that makes sense. It’s inserting a lot into the text that isn’t there.
Dr White is wrong. The bible from Genesis to Revelation is premillenial. When you property read the bible with a literal grammatical hermeneutic, and apply that to the Noaic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, a Davidic covenants and the entire bible all the way to Revelation, then it becomes clear.
I like James White, but he and a dozen other post and A millenials seem to ignore the covenants. You cannot get Israel or eschatology right unless you get the covenants right.
unfortunately the post millenial view is permeating the church like a virus.
Post Mils do have a grand scheme. Unfortunately it is evil and totally wrong.
@@mariosangermano5709 well said!
My brain hurts.
What do you guys do with the book of revelation? "My kingdom is not of this world"? Calvinist are used to ignoring some scripture, I guess this is it taken to the furthest conclusion. Calvinism and postmil seem to be framework not apparent in the bible but after someone explains it to you and you sort of squint your eyes so you don't see all the problematic versus, THEN you can say "yeah I sort of see it". I am just not as smart as James White, I want to understand this point of view.
Huh. For us, it was exactly the opposite. For our first ~17 yrs in the Lord (1981~1998), we were in dispy pre-mil churches. None of it made any sense to us, but we simply shrugged our shoulders and pressed on anyways.
But when we started learning about covenantal vs dispensational theology ~1999, all the various Tetris blocks started falling in to place, and numerous (seemingly) disjointed scripture passages suddenly made loads of sense.
See Gary DeMar’s book “Last Days Madness.”
Yes, the kingdom of God, the Church, is not *of* this world. How is that a problem? It is *in* this world and has a mission to conquer the world through the gospel, the double edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of Christ. I'm not sure what verses you think we are ignoring.
The title of this video should be “its”, not “it’s”. 😊👍. On the actual video text, ie
Dr white , I’m a huge fan of yours and have practically been raised on your teachings but you have failed to look closely into this postmill / theonomic stuff . The A- mill position
Does more justice to the clearly laid out in the already/ not yet language. Also the concept of this age and the age to come it’s well accounted for in the postmill view .
In all honesty, I think postmill is rooted in sin, it’s very hard to agree with postmill especially since it can’t be found in the Bible.
Following this view opens the door to so many errors and now critics of the faith can say well I think Jesus in general is allegorical or the Holy Spirit is allegorical.
It also saddens me even more to see people in the comments saying it made sense in their head, but no Scriptural basis.
I can’t agree with postmill all those martyrs, they didn’t believe Jesus was reigning in them Spiritually. Paul didn’t either in Thessalonians nor did Daniel.
So how do we just insert into the Scripture what is no there?!?? That is sin.
So do postmils and amils believe that the second coming has already taken place? Because the scriptures declare that Jesus will assume His Davidic throne at the time of His second coming, and not before (Matthew 19:28, 25:31). Until then, "difficult times will come" in the last days as “evil men and imposters will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived” (2 Timothy 3:1, 13); things will not be improving here on earth, but getting worse (cf. Luke 17:26ff, 18:8, Matthew 24:37).
Because Jesus has not yet returned in glory with all of His angels, because there has not yet been a glorification of the creation, Jesus’ Davidic Kingdom rule is yet future, therefore any views that see Christ's Davidic reign as a present reality are necessarily false, and any attempt to maintain those views require one to either spiritualize or allegorize the text, ignoring its plain meaning.
No one is full preterist, to believe Christ has already returned is considered heretical. What you find is partial preterist in that most of the Olivet discourse and Matt 24 were fulfilled in AD 70.
Amil here (former dispy then historic). I am not even an ounce convinced that the Bible teaches postmil; YET, I would still prefer that every single Christian on earth believe postmil, for it is the most useful. I do a lot of research on the persecuted church. If you look at the underground Chinese church, which has experienced the greatest revival of all time and sends more missionaries out than any other nation, even to North Korea, you would see that they’re basically unanimously postmil.
"Amil is a form of postmil...chronologically??? No, no, no...postmil is a form of amil, historically and biblically.
Aren't all the X-mil labels fairly recent, like the last 150ish years? I think it is anachronistic to claim amil is older, and at least from what I see, the supposed "amil" position as actually held by various people in history seems to have the hopeful bent that postmil has.
@@oracleoftroy I'm not referring to the history of the terms but of the beliefs. However, the more important issue is how biblical they are. Hopeful or not, postmil is barely more biblical than dispensationalism.
@@beve2874 I'd disagree with that. I think the historical examples that people anachronistically describe as "amil" really fit postmil better. Amil is marked by an expectation of defeat for the church, but what I see in the ancient writers is the expectation that God will uphold his church and lead them to victory against satan's armies, something only found in postmil (and the occasional "optimistic amil" that I think is really just postmil) these days.
Regardless, I agree that it is more important that one's view matches scripture, which is why I had to become postmil. I can't see how any of the premil views make any sort of sense of scripture, and on the points where amil diverges from postmil, postmil has the better scriptural case.
@@oracleoftroy Respectfully, your view of Amil is defective. And the historical case is decidedly against your assertion. That being said, the historical argument only goes so far. There is such a thing as progressive revelation. And, it could be that Amil was first recorded even though Postmil was already existing. I don't think you came to the Postmil position through Scripture. You would have had to study these things in great depth. There is no surface reading of the relevant passages that would bring one to a Postmil position. Methinks you were evangelized into it. If you had come to your conviction solely through study, you wouldn't display such ignorance of Amils and such disdain for Premils. Both positions have solid cases for their convictions, they just use a different hermeneutic for interpreting O.T. prophecy.
@@brettv.9174 _"Respectfully, your view of Amil is defective."_
In what way?
_"And the historical case is decidedly against your assertion. "_
And what is the historical case, given that the terms are very recent and rather anachronistically applied?
_"That being said, the historical argument only goes so far."_
It's interesting how both of you make claims about history and immediately retreat from those claims at the slightest push back. Is the historical argument really all that strong if both of you find it so indefensible?
_"And, it could be that Amil was first recorded even though Postmil was already existing."_
Again, the whole X-mil framing is a recent one. It is simply unclear to me that what amil claims to be historic examples don't equally fit with postmil. There is a lot of overlap between postmil and amil, and a lot of variance within each views such that some historical belief that the amil wants to call amil is true for all the "not premil" (or broader posmil category) that both amil and postmil share.
_"I don't think you came to the Postmil position through Scripture."_
I didn't come to amil through scripture, per se. It mostly aligned with scripture, and it naturally fit my pessimistic disposition so I held it by default. But when scripture was laid out in full, I saw that God teaches success of the gospel and that the gates of hell won't stand up to his Church, etc, and so I had to adjust my view based on the clear scriptural evidence. There is a lot of overlap between them, so I didn't have to change much, but when I considered he distinctive between them, scripture aligned with postmil.
_"Methinks you were evangelized into it."_
I heard a very detailed scriptural argument for it, couldn't find anyone with a sound counter argument, and so decided to trust what God promises in scripture rather than my own default feelings. I don't see it as a bad thing that my view has historical pedigree, in fact, I'd be really worried if is was a novel view no one in history ever held until recently, or if it was a view condemned by the church early on and largely abandoned until recently.
_"If you had come to your conviction solely through study, you wouldn't display such ignorance of Amils and such disdain for Premils."_
Likewise, if you were convinced by scripture, you would cite scripture instead of spending your entire post posturing about how unscriptural I supposedly am. Noted that you have a theory about how I arrived at my views despite having zero knowledge of my personal history. For now, I will assume this is projection designed to make you feel good about lacking scriptural support for your own convictions.
See, these sorts of things can go both ways and are entirely unhelpful and unconvincing. If you think postmil is unscriptural, I'd rather hear scripture than your unfounded speculations about me.
_"Both positions have solid cases for their convictions, they just use a different hermeneutic for interpreting O.T. prophecy."_
I don't think they are equally valid. Neither do you given how strongly you express yourself here, so I'm not sure why you are backpedaling and now saying both have solid cases.
The post- and a-mil side seems to flow more naturally out of primary passages, whereas it seems like the various premil positions are always having to stitch together 20 different passages to make their system work. It's dizzying to try to follow the logic of the system and no passage seems to mean what it plainly says.
The argument for postmill is very compelling, but for a (post trip) dispensationalist, there is more to the argument than Revelation. I would love to see this sort of talk on dispensationalism vs covenantalism, and not focus on the eschatology.
When you loose those flight benefits there is no going back.
*Its
Sadly, James just had to give Macarthur a little put down at the beginning of interview.
I didn't think that was a putdown I thought it was just a funny story
Postmillennialism , as I see it , does not have very much respect for the chronology that is basically the structure of the New Testament narrative. It has a few 'key' verses, and , that's about it. No thank you . But I guess God will work all things together for good to those who love Him. Most Christians on the mission field are required to be pre-mill.
Anytime someone tells you that their unusual scheme of eschatology revolves around their understanding of particular esoteric interpretations of verses in 3000 year old Jewish song lyrics written by an ex- shepherd rather than from Revelation, Daniel, Matthew 24, I or II Thessalonians or I Corinthians, the Red flags should start to look like a Communist Chinese May day parade. When they further tell you that despite advanced theological training they could not see this until a tiny group of warped lunatics "discipled" (Aka indoctrinated) them, start looking for the emperor's new clothes. They won't be there.
This is complete lunacy. Read the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapters 19 and 20, a book actually about eschatology. Jesus returns to earth in Chapter 19 defeating Satan who is still running the earth with the antichrist/Beast and the False Prophet. (This prophecy was written in 90 AD well after the Temple was destroyed.) Then in verse 20 comes the Millennium, the 1000 year reign of Jesus with the resurrected saints. This happens directly AFTER Jesus' Return. This means that Jesus' return is Premillennial NOT Post millennial. That is what the terms mean. Thus both Post mil and A-mil (no millennium) are simply and clearly false. You do not need years of study or a knowledge of Greek or Hebrew to see this. There is no slight of hand. These guys are either evil or wackos. Either way avoid them for the plague that they are. Anyone this twisted or stupid has nothing useful to tell you about Jesus or Christianity.
GOD is ONE---Not Three!
The problem with post millennialism is that it isn’t grounded in scripture. As a matter of fact you have to allegorize and metaphorize the whole of revelation and almost all of the apocalyptic scriptures. Something that wouldn’t be acceptable in any other form of biblical criticism.
That's a good point. Specific eschatologies, like premil, amil, and postmil, are drawn from texts that seem to allow variation in meaning. It is a mistake to decide that one eschatology is completely fixed, and accurately determined, and then to make that eschatology become the hermeneutic by which more specific passages are understood (such as the Great Commission).
@@TheMaineSurveyor “Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.””
Acts 1:6-8 NIV
It was never meant for us to prepare the “world” for Jesus. It is for us to be witnesses, spreading the Word of His resurrection throughout the world. Which lines up perfectly with what all the disciples did. Jesus isn’t going to only spiritually reign through us. He Himself will physically come to place all the world beneath Him. We need only to endure, leaning heavily on His Holy Spirit which comforts and councils us.
“According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”
1 Thessalonians 4:15-16
I couldn't agree more. I like James White and all the other reformed pastors, but when It comes to eschatology James White and all the other post millenial proponents are out of their mind. The bible nowhere teaches this view unless as you said, you have to spiritualize and allagorize all prophetic scripture away. You also have to ignore literal grammatical hermeneutic, so you come up with all kinds of nonsense firmly rooted in confusion.
John MacArthur has a great 6 part sermon series called, " why every Calvinist should be premillenial ".
These guys like Doug Wilson , James white, Jeff Durbin and others completely ignore the Noaic, Abrahamic, and Davidic covenants, or they spiritualize them away, or claim the church replaced Israel. All of which is false.
Amillenial is just as bad. You have to understand those covenants to get Israel right and to get eschatology right.
@@mariosangermano5709 Yea it's wild. I honestly couldn't believe someone as knowledgeable as him would come to those conclusions. 1 Corinthians 3:18 comes to mind when I see someone who uses a little too much of the world's knowledge when trying to understand Bible prophecy. The best commentary for the Bible is the Bible, but with all the information at our fingers it's like we forget.
@@mariosangermano5709 Should make you wonder about the rest of their lies. They are almost completely wrong about everything. I am a Christian. I can read and I have read, These guys are not deluded. They are evil. You cannot be a Christian pastor and be this wrong.
The absurdity of Post-Mil more like 😬
This doesn't sound like the teaching of Dr. White I know. Let the Scripture speak for itself. Don't start with a scheme that interprets the Bible. Let the Bible speak. I want to see what he is saying. But this doesn't sound like his typical teaching. Perhaps I misunderstand.
Perhaps I misunderstand in the same way. It comes across as if they started with postmil as a given, then used it as their hermeneutic. They might not be doing that, but it comes across that way in this discussion (and other discussions I've heard).
This is exactly who he is - a liar. Did you not know this? A child can see that Post -mil is a lie. Jesus says so in Revelation 19 and 20. Jesus returns bodily before the millennium or 1000 year reign starts -- NOT afterwards. Now guess what else he has been lying about that you cannot see as easily.
Sad to see Jame White has become post lighted.
Why is it sad that he believes this way? He understands the Scriptures is helping others to understand better. I can't see what is sad about that?
@@SavedByTheBloodOfChrist551 It is false eschatology, that's why. It is an established fact that there is not any documented position by any antenicean patriarch of a postmillellian position. It would be very important to establish the beginning of this fulfillment but there is none. The first mention is after the realm of Constantine was established. The millennial age is from the standpoint and will be always from the standpoint of a Jerusalem reign on earth in the flesh by Our Lord, not a Gentile Millennial one. Please wake up and carefully at man's history of the last.... umm 2000 years.. like the Holocaust. A lot of intervention at times by the Spirit of the Lord as the Gentiles were allowed into the favor of the Lord but an established early dominion by our Lord is not quite yet as George Ladd affirms.
It hit a nerve, again! Love it! Postmil smashes golden calves everywhere it’s preached! It smashed mine many years ago. It was the best crush I’ve ever had in my walk with the Lord!!
@@elielrosausa No I would contend it upholds the Babylon calf. Replacement theology in its roots. If this framework was true, we would be seeing a teaching close to how Jesus advocated in how the Torah was to be applied through the centuries but we don't. Some of the Puritans did try for awhile. So when was the last time, you heard a sermon on canceling debt every seven years in a sermon? Jerusalem was never ever Babylon, that's a horrid teaching that indeed needs to be admonished. Jerusalem's kings have simply been seduced through the centuries by her as well as many other cities. I would encourage a read from a new book I just read by Mark Davidson called Hidden Babylon. Exceptionally done and clears up a lot of the misconceptions that postmillennialism doesn't clear up. 25 years ago I was almost 100% amillennial but in looking back at the atrocities in history, it simply is problematic to hold such a view. Doug Wilson is sort of right the dominion of Christianity ebbs and flows in history but these guys are looking at it way too much from a Western European view. The pure physical reign of Christ from Jerusalem is not yet as George Ladd would say.
@@elielrosausa Exactly right. Same thing happened to me. If only EVERY Christian could understand the Word of God as it truly is, What bliss that would be for the Church. But the Bride will triumph in Christ regardless of those still in wrong understanding.
Why, why every introduction this man gives away his narcissism.
What on earth are you talking about? That is a very ungodly thing to say about a brother in Christ. I mean I'm assuming you are a Christian (?)
The Kingdom IS Jesus. When Jesus comes back, he brings the Kingdom. The Gentiles (nations or enthos in the Greek) HAVE been evangelized and taught about Jesus. There are disciples from every ethnic group who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit as Jesus and John the Baptist said they would. This command was finished in the 19th and 20th centuries when European exploration and technology took the gospel to every Gentile ethnic group. Ethnos here clearly does NOT mean a nation state. You cannot baptize Germany or China. in the 1600s there were many places that were not reached yet. Name one now.
When Jesus sent the disciples out to evangelize Israel, both the 12 and the 70, he did not tell them to save everyone. He told them clearly to tell everyone who would listen and if they did not listen, then the evangelists were to shake the dust off their sandals and move on. If he did this with Jews whay would the Gentiles get better treatment?
Postmil is so obviously wrong to anyone who actually reads the bible
JAMES WHITE, PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT. I have listened to you for years and defended you trom those who would speak against you. The only fault I have found is that you label yourself as a Calvinist. I don’t mind that you agree with what a brother in Christ taught because it is consistent with Scripture. The problem is the label because no matter what label we use Satan will always drag it through the mud. Imagine if Christians started calling themselves ( James White-ist ) or something like that, I would hope that you would not want that, plus I believe that the Bible does address this when it talks about people who are saying,” I follow Paul “, 1 Corinthians 3:4. I have listened to this post and I did not want to believe this was true until I heard it from you yourself. The first thing that you are talking about is all the books you have read and all the people who you have listened to and I understand that Jeff has spoken on the subject for a long time. Only then you talk about Bible passages that you believe support this new position you have adopted. I say ( ROOKIE MISTAKE ) I would LOVE the opportunity to talk to you long and hard about this subject. Do I really expect you to contact me personally ( probably not ) this is just a very short comment so I want to say something that I hope that if you read this that you will think long and hard about what I am saying.
Maybe you might respect the fact that I am just a little older than you at 64 years old this year. As I understand it you are believing that Jesus Christ ( Yeshua ) is going to just continue to build His Church until the entire Earth is filled with just Christians and only then will Christ return. You yourself talk about other people who have pre-suppositions and then cherry pick from Scripture the things that suit their narrative. Somehow you have done that very thing. Jeff Durbin was saying how through and in depth and carefully you study Scripture and you said the same things about him. Generally this is not a subject that you talk about, your very good on the subject of Salvation and all the details around that subject but prophecy has not been something I have ever heard you talk about before. The idea that everything in Revelation already happened in AD 70 is nonsense, you only have to prayerfully read The book to realise that, Shaw some things that are in the book did happen to the Jewish people AD 70 but nothing that happened AD 70 is anything that has not happened to the Jewish nation before. What happens in Revelation, happens to the entire world and is worse than anything that has ever happened before and will never happen again. Finally I say to you the words of Paul to the Galatians,” who has bewitched you”. You need the entire council of God to have the whole armour of God. You even said something about your theology on the subject having started one way and changing over time, this is what happens when you specialise in just one area.
I am not the leader in some big church or a teacher in front of a congregation, I am however operating in the gift that God has given me, I agree with the T.U.L.I.P . you should know that someone called me a Calvinist before I ever even heard of the man and I am a very strong believer in Sola Scriptura and the leading of The Holy Spirit. I have not written any books and I don’t do anything in service of The Lord for money. Please if you can talk with me and not for any purpose of me becoming a public figure, I don’t want that. I think of you as a brother in Christ and I don’t want you causing people to stumble.
One last thing, the Bible teaches that All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God and anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar and the truth is not in them. So I believe that this includes those who are born again especially when it says that when we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So to sum up the idea that Our Lord will be Glorified when the world is full of born again Christians who achieved this even though they all have sin and obviously still sin from time to time after some indefinite period. I hope I worded that well enough to be understood in what I am saying. I don’t believe any such scenario would Glorify God especially when Salvation is all of God. God Bless. Ps I’m an Aussie, just thought you should know.
The problem with postmillenialism is that it is based on optimism for the sake of optimism. People like Doug Wilson are simply afraid of losing Christian culture and society. So they invent postmill to give the reassurance that something is worth fighting for.
Wilson didn't "invent" Postmillenialism, it's been around for centuries
It is optimistic, but it is also Biblical. I'm sure Doug could give you a lot of reasons relating back to scripture for postmillennialism, not just hope.
Regardless of eschatology, I think the furthering & fruitfulness of the Christian faith & God's will for humanity is always worth fighting for... don't you?
Lol just read though the text faithfully and you won’t be pre mill. John said in Revelation (which means the unveiling in Greek) ALL these things must SOON take place.
Postmill is as old as premill both can be found throughout Church history. Even when there was no "Christian culture".
Nice face plant though, especially funny when someone kicks themselves in back of the head.😂😂😂
@Bob G Both Doug and James have both written & spoken extensively about their Biblical grounds for believing postmillennialism.
But, because it's not talked about extensively in this video, they're being deceitful?
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Full preterism is the only eschatological position that makes sense and that is entirely consistent with scripture
no one believes in full preterism with any shred of orthodoxy - Christ has not returned yet
Just No. Go read a book. Any book when you learn how to read properly start with the Bible.
James white: “I was tired of newspaper eschatology”
Also James white: “are you paying attention to the rise of the secular state?!”
Lol - yes Dr White, you are very inconsistent here. Your eschatology is primarily based on tradition, and in regards to this issue, you speak more about the “newspaper” than you spend on exegeting scripture. That’s a fact.
Knowing what I know of James White, I know he didn't come to this view lightly. He is a man who digs into the Word of God. He wrestles with the meaning of words, esp. in their original languages. I hardly think he came to be post mil because he is just following tradition. That's absurd.
@@SavedByTheBloodOfChrist551 It's not absurd based on what I've heard from James White on this topic. You are correct that he (normally) digs into the Word of God. He is a great exegete, and I have incredibly benefited from his work in many ways. But on the topic of eschatology, he does not demonstrate his position exegetically. His method of hermeneutics shifts to a more assumption method based on what he's heard from others. That's a fact - I've heard it with my own ears. A disappointing and unexpected fact based on the James White I've come to admire. But a fact nonetheless.
@@micahmartin4762 I just don't see it that way. He has quite a few videos on this topic and he makes his case from the Scriptures.
@@SavedByTheBloodOfChrist551 I've listened carefully to all of White's presentations on this subject the past two years. Unfortunately, he only references scripture, but he does not exegete the scripture the way he does other subjects.
This is error.
Isa 2:4 says nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn way any more.
how is this then the MIllenium Kingdom.
Jesus doesnt need time to warm up and be a good king.
isa 32:1 says the King shall reign in Righteousness.
again this is error.
Pre Mill, pre trib!
_"Jesus doesnt need time to warm up and be a good king."_
God doesn't need to take 6 days to create. Yet God chooses to work in time. Who are you to tell him not to?
@@oracleoftroy for your information, God did not take 6 days to create.
He created in verse 1 in an instant out of nothing.
Then verse 2 describes God destroying the world.
After the destruction God remade the earth in 6 days from the material present.
@@ChathuraImbulagoda A nitpicky (and Biblically dubious) response, but regardless, just as God took six days to move pre-existing material around to remake the earth, God takes time building his kingdom from a tiny seed or pebble and grows it into a giant tree or great mountain that fills the earth. The Bible never claims God's kingdom will pop into existence fully formed. That isn't to deny that God could do otherwise, but rather to accept and affirm what God actually says he is doing right now.
@@oracleoftroy wrong. God literally said in
Rev 21:10 that the great city descends from heaven. He literally talks about a 1000 year kingdom (mentioned 6 times in Rev 20)
Scripture describes the world as getting worse and worse before The second coming and the subsequent arrival of the Kingdom.
Amillennialists have it backwards.
So who's the one not accepting and not affirming what God actually said?
@@ChathuraImbulagoda Yes... and it does so at the completion of the conquest of the earth and after the 1000 years. Not sure how that helps your case.
_"Scripture describes the world as getting worse and worse before The second coming and the subsequent arrival of the Kingdom."_
Does it? It seems to represent a static level of depravity in man that doesn't really change. Every example I can think of are things that were true 2000 years ago, are true today, and will be true in the future. "Wars and rumors of wars", etc have been around in every age.
_"Amillennialists have it backwards."_
Not sure what "it" is in your mind, but as a postmil, I can agree.
_"So who's the one not accepting and not affirming what God actually said?"_
Premil and amil for rejecting God's clear teaching that he wins. He doesn't lose and then flip the table and make a new heaven and earth.
Postmill? Nah
@royal priest I look at you and David and see two nuts in a shell.
@royal priest According to the Lord’s word when he comes again the world will be as corrupt as the days of Noah…not a golden age.
G’day @@SparkyPreacher, you raise a common point. But I’d ask you as a brother in Christ to look at the context regarding Matt. 24:37-39.
Jesus’s point in associating His coming with the flood is to illustrate the unexpected nature of His coming. The second “for” explains the first.
Jesus mentions mundane activities like eating and marriage, He doesn’t make reference to the evil of Noah’s day.
The broader context also gives us reason to believe Jesus here is elaborating on the nature of His coming, not the evil surrounding The Coming.
All this said and considered, the postmillennial position teaches there will always be sinful tares which exist amongst the just wheat feild. Most advocates of this position also teach there will be a final rebellion at the end when Satan is loosed, just before the Second Coming and Judgement.
Much love in the Lord brother, may He bless and keep you!
@royal priest Revelation 20:7-9 CSB
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison [8] and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. [9] They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
@royal priest Nope. Once again you are universally wrong. Jesus did NOT come back in 70 AD. Yes , the Temple was destroyed but that was only one of 3 questions the disciples asked Jesus. 1) When will the Temple be destroyed? (He has Just told them it would.) 2) When are you coming back? and 3) When is the end of the world OR age(Eon can mean either one, silly rabbit.) ? Only the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD . Jesus did not come back with the armies of heaven and the last Trumpet and gather all the elect. We are still right here. The World did not end -- just the Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes and Sadducees world and it certainly was not the end of the Old Covenant or Torah Age the Lying Doug likes to claim. That ended in 33 AD when Jeus was crucified (the Temple veil split) and rose. &0 Ad is well into the New Covenant Age which according to Paul started at least with Abraham.
So your your lack of any reasoning is based on following false teachers and false gods. Enjoy being wrong. It is what you seem to do best. Embrace it or better still repent.
Baby steps of correcting your errant doctrines draw you some closer to The Church of the east, but if you don't abandon your pseudo churches you will never have truth.
But the Church of the east are all liars following evil men that Jesus told not to call themselves fathers and priests.
So apparently the world becomes Christianized and everything is beautiful etc only to find out majority were just hypocrites...
Revelation 20:7-9 CSB
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison [8] and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. [9] They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
The general view is that a majority of the earth will be Christian, and there will be some remaining cities/nations that are not. Gog and Magog are representative of the holdout nation-states. Gentry says he thinks biblical evidence exists for about 80% (or 4/5ths) of the world will be Christian at Christ's second return. It's not about being hypocrites though man - that's such a harsh take on this. But even if your thesis holds true - you must be amill then right?
@@usafballer79 No the magority view is the the saints rule for a thousand years over an unregenerate population of sinners who rebel the first real chance they get.
This is a big weakness for a-mil and post-mil, they allegorize Rev 20 so much. Their commentaries on Rev 20 just do not make any sense. The OT prophecies of our Lord's 1st coming were literal!
@@sanders194539 They allegorize too much a book that is filled with allegories? Meanwhile, for decades dispys have been scrambling to fix their failed prophecies about how the USSR/middle east/china/EU/whoever it is this week is Gog and Magog. At least the postmil side hasn't had to scramble every 5 years to fix their narrative, but have been pretty consistent for the last 2000 years with some relatively minor disagreements. That's possible because they recognize the symbolic nature of Rev and don't try to literalize everything to some current event.
I think the issue with premil is that they treat Revelation as a linear book when it isn't, and they don't let the rest of scripture interpret it. For example, Paul uses similar language as Rev 20 regarding a first resurrection and death and second resurrection and death in Romans 6. For Paul, the first resurrection is regeneration, the first death is physical death, the second resurrection is the resurrection at the last day and glorification of the saints, and the second death is the lake of fire.
If we realize that Rev isn't linear and thus there aren't three+ second comings, but all the instances of the return of the lamb are on the last day, Rev 20 gives us a clear timeline that the saints who experience regeneration (the first resurrection) rule with Christ in his kingdom (the church) for a long period of time until the second coming in which Christ raises the dead, does one judgement of all which leads to eternal life for the saints and the second death for the reprobate. Rather than being overly allegorical, it lets scripture interpret scripture as a consistent whole.
@@oracleoftroy as far as the failed prophecies goes, they are charasmatic heretics. These people who are constantly looking for biblical fullfillment in our time at the very least have poor doctrine, and theology. Setting this fact aside, A-mil, and Post-mil often use the non-sequiter that if a person is pre-mil they must also be hyper-dispensational, and charasmatic which is not true. Yes, pre-mil was popularized in the 1800s among heretics such as the Restorationist movement. However if you read the Particular Baptist from the 1700s John Gill's commentary of Rev 20, he said it was yet to be fullfilled, and he believed in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ. The same was true for many of the early church fathers like Iraneus and Justin Martyr. I have seen an interview of a pastor in China who suffered much persecution, and he was pre-mil. Pre-mil is common among the persecuted Church abroad.
As for Rev 20, it mirrors other points in scripture, like Zechariah, and the last few chapters of Ezekiel. There will be a great revival among the Jews at some point, and Christ will physically reign as the King of the Jews, the sign on the cross itself proclaimed him to be THEIR King. This will be the end of the 70th week of Daniel. He will "rule with a rod of iron". A- mil, Post-mil misunderstand Roman 9-11 also. Understand "that a partial hardening has occurred until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in". The present partial hardening of the Jews can plainly be observed, and the church has been a pratically exclusive gentile institution since the 2nd Century A.D. Bar Kokhba Revolt, and the subsequent emergence of the Talmud. Essentially, very few understand the prophetic, past, present, and future for the Jews. Partly this misunderstanding is due to the taboo of discussing in depth the history of the Jews.
Lastly, how is Satan bound up now? Brother I tell you Satan is most active in the churches today. It is empirical, he still wields his weapons of deceit, and temptation as skillfully as ever.
Why are Jews and Catholics so successful in the public and political sphere?
Because they’re not pre-mill.
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