Really nice review, thank you. I appreciated the positive and insightful comparison. I agree with you that Pharaoh seems like it could have been more. I personally would have loved to see it treated the way Tomb of Horrors was in Tomb of Annihilation - as inspiration for something new that really played off of the themes and challenges from the series.
Finally a review I can respect. Knowledgeable, even handed, experienced, AND a comparison to the earlier material? Top shelf. Still won't buy it due to WotC & Hasbros behavior, but I appreciate the review.
I particularly liked the refresh on the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's been one of my favorite OG Greyhawk mid level adventures for decades...classic combo of hex and dungeon crawl with enough hooks for bigger picture entanglements without any of them being necessary. Just a very adaptable, fun romp. The version presented here is a reasonable simplification, and it is very easy for a given DM to (re-) expand the overland / exploration portion, or the gnomish settlement, or whatever else they wanted to puff up a bit as the framework of the adventure is solid and the lack of metaplot and other complications makes it easy to snip, splice, and graft around. I'm juggling two different campaigns right now and am tantalized by the urge to work the LCoT into either one of them somehow, but sadly it would require some serious gymnastics to make-it-make-sense to the respective continuities of those campaigns. But I will find a way to bring this 5e version to table at some point. Soon! Very soon! Mwa ha ha!
The Caverns was one of my faves from back in the day. I don't mind the conversion here, but it does feel like opportunity lost when not bundling it alongside a reiteration of WG4. Similar, but not quite as egregious as bundling in I3 without I4 and I5. Just odd decisions to me.
@@WillyMuffinUK fair enough. From my point of view, drawing interest of people newer to the hobby to good classic adventures is still positive...at least some of them will do a little digging and find the extended earlier works and go from there. And of course, us old heads know the score and can port such things if we want to re-incorporate them.
@EdHastingsKillerShrike don't get me wrong - I like the book, I like that they're going over some classic stuff. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want them (in my opinion) to do better 🙂
I already have the OAR versions of Barrier Peaks & Lost City from Goodman Games, thinking I may skip this one, since the other 4 all have been somewhat changed or missing elements of sister modules.
For me, the translations and resulting omissions are acceptable, but I'd have preferred the Goodman mode of "tribute and conversion/expansion" to have continued. As with many things, mileage varies. I can fully understand your position.
I recently had the great pleasure of playing for the first time Expedition to the Barrier Peaks at garycon. I had to pick up an original copy. I plan on running it for my group.
Great Job. I liked the Goodman games love. My cousin and I were talking about D&D no longer have mystery and inaccessibility. Like someone had to take your hand and show you the way. Not gatekeeping but like the supernatural aid of the Hero's Journey. I think Goodman kept that in their versions. That said those books are going crazy on eBay so maybe this D&D version is more obtainable.
Thank-you! As for being more obtainable - it certainly helps when you own the source material rather than licence it. The Goodman books are great, but were always going to be at the mercy of WotC.
After purchasing the dumpster fire that was The Radiant Citadel, I will never purchase another WotC product. If I recall correctly, Beyond the Crystal Cave was voted the worst module published by TSR.
It's among some worst lists, usually because of its themes rather than it's writing. It certainly doesn't appear within my worst lists - but then, I like Shakespeare, and I don't think Shakespearean themes aren't suitable fare for role-playing. I quite like Radiant Citadel, too. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near a favourite list, but compared to Hoard of the Dragon Queen and 5E Spelljammer, it's not awful. To each, their own.
Hi, just a wild question…you said you did tournament DM’ing in the 80’s…did you do Gamesfair? I was there in 1988 (Reading) playing the AD&D tournament. It was my first convention and it was fantastic fun!
I did, yes. Gamesfair, GenCon Europe/UK, Dragonmeet, Spiele, and a bunch of smaller, local cons, from around 1987 through 2002. Thoroughly enjoyed them, but life and increasing corporatisation pushed them down the priority "to do" order. I do still go to the occasional wargame con - they haven't become swallowed by the corporates so much. By "corporate" - one thing I absolutely loved about cons is touching base with small manufacturers/sellers who put out esoteric and interesting things. The last few major cons I attended, the vendor halls were a sea of nothing I couldn't get with ease online. I think the most interesting thing about the last major con I found was a seller of individual Vampire: Eternal Struggle cards from whom I picked up a bunch of Malkavians I was short on, which is a far cry from the niche oddities I used to find. I'm not adverse to the idea of getting back into cons. If I did, it'd be to have fun with some interesting games and people, rather than the mix of tournaments and shopping for the weird and wonderful that were my con bread and butter back when.
@@WillyMuffinUK Hi Ian, well…it’s just possible you ran a game for me back in the day then! I loved the homebrew feel of Gamesfair in ‘88. 15 years old, away from home playing Call of Cthulhu til the early hours in some little classroom. Brilliant. The AD&D tourney was a mystery to me…I remember a puzzle statue on a plinth and maybe a big spider thing that I spent all my time sneaking around to get behind. Needless to say I didn’t score well lol 😂 I didn’t then go to another convention until UK Games Expo in Birmingham something like about ten years ago. It was great, all housed in the Hilton hotel, cramped together with, like you say lots of interesting people and stuff you don’t normally see. I remember chatting to the artist Wayne Reynolds who was cool and super helpful with advice. That ‘con has grown and now uses the big NEC halls…and it lost it’s charm and appeal. The gaming side is still good though, I went this year and met and played with some great gamers. Anyway, I like your channel…thanks for the videos 😎👍
@@dungeondumbo University campuses, hotels, and holiday camps were the order of the day - none of this shiny exhibition centre of today evokes gaming for me 🙂 It's quite possible I did run you - if so, I hope I didn't do a bad job.
Well, we still need Dragoblance, Greyhawk, Planescape, Mystara, Dark Sun, and so, so much more. On second thought, I don't want wokeness to touch any of these masterpieces.
Define wokeness? We do have DragonLance, Greyhawk, and Planescape in 5E now. Personally, I'd prefer more tools for helping DMs self-brew. I do believe that to be the most rewarding, over using a published setting. I also embrace the irony that that statement is being made by someone doing a series on published RPG worlds!
Concise and comprehensive. Precisely what i need from a review. well done sir! you have a new fan!
Thank-you - I'm glad you found it useful!
Thank you for a great review! Thanks for posting
Thank-you 🙂
Thanks Willy, I have the OAR releases and it's valuable to see what the differences are before I buy.
I'm glad you found it useful 🙂
Really nice review, thank you. I appreciated the positive and insightful comparison. I agree with you that Pharaoh seems like it could have been more. I personally would have loved to see it treated the way Tomb of Horrors was in Tomb of Annihilation - as inspiration for something new that really played off of the themes and challenges from the series.
Same with Saltmarsh, too. I guess it bites for me because the Desert of Desolation series is one of my absolute faves.
@@WillyMuffinUK For me as well. I've run it for every edition since it came out.
Finally a review I can respect. Knowledgeable, even handed, experienced, AND a comparison to the earlier material? Top shelf.
Still won't buy it due to WotC & Hasbros behavior, but I appreciate the review.
Thank-you - I'm glad you found it useful 🙂
I particularly liked the refresh on the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's been one of my favorite OG Greyhawk mid level adventures for decades...classic combo of hex and dungeon crawl with enough hooks for bigger picture entanglements without any of them being necessary. Just a very adaptable, fun romp.
The version presented here is a reasonable simplification, and it is very easy for a given DM to (re-) expand the overland / exploration portion, or the gnomish settlement, or whatever else they wanted to puff up a bit as the framework of the adventure is solid and the lack of metaplot and other complications makes it easy to snip, splice, and graft around.
I'm juggling two different campaigns right now and am tantalized by the urge to work the LCoT into either one of them somehow, but sadly it would require some serious gymnastics to make-it-make-sense to the respective continuities of those campaigns. But I will find a way to bring this 5e version to table at some point. Soon! Very soon! Mwa ha ha!
The Caverns was one of my faves from back in the day. I don't mind the conversion here, but it does feel like opportunity lost when not bundling it alongside a reiteration of WG4. Similar, but not quite as egregious as bundling in I3 without I4 and I5. Just odd decisions to me.
@@WillyMuffinUK fair enough. From my point of view, drawing interest of people newer to the hobby to good classic adventures is still positive...at least some of them will do a little digging and find the extended earlier works and go from there. And of course, us old heads know the score and can port such things if we want to re-incorporate them.
@EdHastingsKillerShrike don't get me wrong - I like the book, I like that they're going over some classic stuff. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want them (in my opinion) to do better 🙂
I already have the OAR versions of Barrier Peaks & Lost City from Goodman Games, thinking I may skip this one, since the other 4 all have been somewhat changed or missing elements of sister modules.
For me, the translations and resulting omissions are acceptable, but I'd have preferred the Goodman mode of "tribute and conversion/expansion" to have continued. As with many things, mileage varies. I can fully understand your position.
I recently had the great pleasure of playing for the first time Expedition to the Barrier Peaks at garycon.
I had to pick up an original copy. I plan on running it for my group.
I hope you enjoy running it - it's a fun one.
Great Job. I liked the Goodman games love. My cousin and I were talking about D&D no longer have mystery and inaccessibility. Like someone had to take your hand and show you the way. Not gatekeeping but like the supernatural aid of the Hero's Journey. I think Goodman kept that in their versions. That said those books are going crazy on eBay so maybe this D&D version is more obtainable.
Thank-you! As for being more obtainable - it certainly helps when you own the source material rather than licence it. The Goodman books are great, but were always going to be at the mercy of WotC.
After purchasing the dumpster fire that was The Radiant Citadel, I will never purchase another WotC product. If I recall correctly, Beyond the Crystal Cave was voted the worst module published by TSR.
It's among some worst lists, usually because of its themes rather than it's writing. It certainly doesn't appear within my worst lists - but then, I like Shakespeare, and I don't think Shakespearean themes aren't suitable fare for role-playing.
I quite like Radiant Citadel, too. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near a favourite list, but compared to Hoard of the Dragon Queen and 5E Spelljammer, it's not awful.
To each, their own.
Just how long have you been in the TTRPG space? You really know your stuff.
Oh grief, quite a while, man and boy!
These words he speaks are true.
@@WillyMuffinUK It's always good to see our TTRPG elders hale, hearty, and dispensing hard-earned wisdom.
@@donaldrusk7257 Agree. A great review and a new channel discovery for me!
@@donaldrusk7257 I'm not sure I should be relied on for wisdom! 🤣 Pretty sure I'm in the category "Here or lower, the character can only be a thief" 😱
Hi, just a wild question…you said you did tournament DM’ing in the 80’s…did you do Gamesfair? I was there in 1988 (Reading) playing the AD&D tournament. It was my first convention and it was fantastic fun!
I did, yes. Gamesfair, GenCon Europe/UK, Dragonmeet, Spiele, and a bunch of smaller, local cons, from around 1987 through 2002. Thoroughly enjoyed them, but life and increasing corporatisation pushed them down the priority "to do" order. I do still go to the occasional wargame con - they haven't become swallowed by the corporates so much.
By "corporate" - one thing I absolutely loved about cons is touching base with small manufacturers/sellers who put out esoteric and interesting things. The last few major cons I attended, the vendor halls were a sea of nothing I couldn't get with ease online. I think the most interesting thing about the last major con I found was a seller of individual Vampire: Eternal Struggle cards from whom I picked up a bunch of Malkavians I was short on, which is a far cry from the niche oddities I used to find.
I'm not adverse to the idea of getting back into cons. If I did, it'd be to have fun with some interesting games and people, rather than the mix of tournaments and shopping for the weird and wonderful that were my con bread and butter back when.
@@WillyMuffinUK Hi Ian, well…it’s just possible you ran a game for me back in the day then! I loved the homebrew feel of Gamesfair in ‘88. 15 years old, away from home playing Call of Cthulhu til the early hours in some little classroom. Brilliant. The AD&D tourney was a mystery to me…I remember a puzzle statue on a plinth and maybe a big spider thing that I spent all my time sneaking around to get behind. Needless to say I didn’t score well lol 😂 I didn’t then go to another convention until UK Games Expo in Birmingham something like about ten years ago. It was great, all housed in the Hilton hotel, cramped together with, like you say lots of interesting people and stuff you don’t normally see. I remember chatting to the artist Wayne Reynolds who was cool and super helpful with advice. That ‘con has grown and now uses the big NEC halls…and it lost it’s charm and appeal. The gaming side is still good though, I went this year and met and played with some great gamers. Anyway, I like your channel…thanks for the videos 😎👍
@@dungeondumbo University campuses, hotels, and holiday camps were the order of the day - none of this shiny exhibition centre of today evokes gaming for me 🙂
It's quite possible I did run you - if so, I hope I didn't do a bad job.
Ello!
Hello!
Well, we still need Dragoblance, Greyhawk, Planescape, Mystara, Dark Sun, and so, so much more.
On second thought, I don't want wokeness to touch any of these masterpieces.
Define wokeness?
We do have DragonLance, Greyhawk, and Planescape in 5E now.
Personally, I'd prefer more tools for helping DMs self-brew. I do believe that to be the most rewarding, over using a published setting. I also embrace the irony that that statement is being made by someone doing a series on published RPG worlds!